Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
Subscribe to the "Nothing But Anarchy" Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #77 Reflecting on Draymond Green's Apology Video and Media Narratives, the Desire of Millennials to Keep Award Shows, ESPN & Pat McAfee, & Why People Find Gen Z Annoying
In this episode, we're not just talking basketball; we're pulling at threads that lead to broader societal narratives. The media's spin on apologies, the delicate dance with PR, and how the professional standards of sports reflect on our day-to-day lives – it's all under the microscope. Chad also delves into how award shows are losing their luster, Pat McAfee's recent claims against ESPN executive, Norby Williamson, the Epstein list, and Millenials vs Gen Z.
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
It's nothing by Anarchy, the show that explores and subverts sports, entertainment, media, hollywood, bunch of other stuff. Whatever you think is interesting, let me do it here. Welcome to Nothing by Anarchy. All right, welcome to Nothing by Anarchy. I'm Chad Sanders. Like, subscribe, follow us, follow me on Instagram at ChadSand Follow Morgan on Instagram at Moby Williams. If you want to talk to the show, there's a bunch of stuff for us to get to, so let's just jump right into it.
Speaker 1:Dremond Green. Hello, dremond Green, I watched something this morning that I didn't love, which I did not enjoy, that I did not find entertaining. In a place where I am meant to find entertainment, which is YouTube, I found something that I did not find to be entertaining, which was Dremond Green apologizing, being solemn, being measured, being post-punishment for his actions on the court against Yusuf Nerkic and you know giving. Dremond Green was recently handed down what I consider to be like a lifetime achievement award suspension by the Golden State Warriors. He was suspended indefinitely from all team activities, even from, like, the team training facility, from playing in games, from arenas. He was docked almost $2 million in game checks for repeated actions of, I guess, what I would just call like physical attacks or physical, like I'm trying to find a way to soften what it is that he did here, but I can't Basically for like punching and smacking people around on the basketball court and, in practice, fair, that's, that's what he, that's what he has been, that's what he's been doing. I can't even say that's what he's accused of. We've seen, we've all seen video and Dremond's been away for a few weeks because of the most recent infraction, which is when he sort of like backhand crazy slapped Yusuf Nerkic on the basketball court in a game against the Suns. And since that time there have been every measure, every number of talking heads, you know, getting in their little shots and their little barbs at Dremond in condescending, paternalistic ways, saying things like what Kevin Durant said, which is I hope that guy gets the help he needs, and what others have said, different versions of he needs counseling, he needs this, he needs that, he needs to step away from the game, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:And in these moments, similar to like the John Moran John Moran situation, there are two things happening at the same time, as far as I see them. There is action and punishment, right, there's like, or action and reaction. So there's someone has committed an offense of some kind and like, naturally, in the world that we all actually inhabit the one that I inhabit, the one you inhabit like, there are actions and reactions. So there's like if you slap somebody at school you get in trouble, you have to apologize. If you, I mean, you might be suspended or expelled. That's that's how it goes. If you commit a crime out here in society, depending on what you look like and who you are, you will. You are more or less likely to suffer some sort of recourse for what it is that you've done. Dreymon Green has been bullying and smacking around and punching people and hitting people in the nuts literally for years now. Like this is like this is what he does. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1:Like oh absolutely Okay, absolutely so. When I, when I see Dreymon Green on a screen talking about doing that, um, I have certain expectations, but I will get to those. Action reaction. That's one thing that's happening here. There's another thing that's being that that's happening here during this Dreymon Green thing that I'm watching this morning, which is media is being produced and distributed. Okay, I'm looking at the video. I'm looking at the view count. There's about 200,000 views already on the you, just the YouTube version of the Dreymon Green show, in which he's he is apologizing and theorizing and philosophizing and like just talking about what he's done and apologizing to you know, a number of people from, like you said, nerkage, to Rudy Golbert, to people that he works with, the NBA at large, the fans of the black community. He says he's failed as a podcaster. I'm like, okay, something different is happening than just I did something wrong. I feel bad for it. I gotta make it right. I gotta apologize to someone. Something different is happening, which is I almost feel like I'm looking at like, as I'm watching and listening to Dreymond, he is Talking with such pregnant pauses and now I see how annoying that is, so I'm gonna stop doing that, such that I have to check my phone every time he pauses to make sure that, like I haven't gone to commercial, or that the phone I didn't lose my Wi-Fi connection. Um, he is. Is Thinking so hard about the words he's going to say next. It seems as though I mean I don't actually think he's reading cue cards, but he is Speaking so methodically through what he is speaking on that it seems like he's reading cue cards. It feels like a PR crafted Monologue that's what I feel like I'm watching in which he almost designates Steve Kerr and and Bob Myers and Adam Silver as Heroes, in a way, like in this story, like people who have been there for him and who care so much about him and Steve Kerr and I sat across from each other and we cried together. And he's doing that thing. He wants to lash out at Kevin Durant Because Kevin Durant said he should get some help, and he starts to, but then he backtracks on it and so, aside from like action reaction I hope I'm being clear here that's one thing, but there's something else here, which is media is being made, basically, a speech is being given over the course of an hour, and I want to say this and I'm gonna go backward a little bit into my history as a dream on green fan which, until basically this year, I would have considered myself to be one. Um, I Want to make this Extremely clear that I watched most of this 50 60 minute monologue soliloquy but it was so Exhaustingly not entertaining and not what I'm on YouTube looking for and it made something click in my head which is like Public apologies are not entertaining.
Speaker 1:Seeing someone, seeing specifically someone who you know to be fiery, to be clear, even if their behaviors seem erratic and they feel like behaviors that you would judge left to your own devices. Seeing someone like that, who you look to to be a voice that is clear, even if you disagree with what's being said. Seeing that person become a Thoughtful, measured, contrite Merk, like like a little bit cloudy, you know, like starting to say Err about Kevin Durant but then kind of backtracking and saying about Kevin Durant. Like seeing and I'm gonna just make the point bluntly seeing someone who I have always felt inspired by as a Bull in a china shop as far as the NBA, basketball pomp and circumstance and prestige and Polish is concerned. Seeing that person, um, I don't want to say he shrunk, because in my opinion, giving an apology, no matter how contrived or real or whatever. Like there's something brave around apologizing. Okay, there's something brave around saying Around, shrinking ego for a minute and just saying like, ooh, I got that one wrong. I'm sorry, but I didn't like watching. I Didn't like watching a contrite version of Dreymonk green and, and, and I mean, maybe that is the best thing for him right now, maybe that's what felt best and most honest for him right now. Maybe that's what. To be honest.
Speaker 1:I think some of this is like damage control and this part's really fucked up. I think some of this is like his mother was getting death threats. He said his kids were being teased at school. They live in a community where he has to actually face the judgment and the public Recourse of of his actions, etc. So, like, maybe all of this is not earnest. Maybe this is just someone saying like, hey, I want you guys to stop bullying my family for how I behave at work. But I didn't like it. I didn't like it. Like I don't, I don't. I don't like seeing people have to face real repercussions for what are Not real infractions. This is, this is basketball. This is the NBA. This is guys running this. They're playing a game.
Speaker 1:Um, um, like he, you know, he's trying to find advantages where he does not have skill, that is, that is like that can make up the gaps between him and the other Stars. Okay, he's trying to find the edges, he's trying to find the margins. He pushes too far, he kicks people in the growing, he smacks people, he punches his teammate. It's not good. I, it's really not good. Okay, I just want that to be clear. Hey, however, death threats against his family, guys like Blee, like kids, adults telling their children, we don't like Dreymon who, god knows what them fucking Bay Area parents are saying about Dreymon green in their households in front of their kids, then his kids having to do like An eye is not for an eye here.
Speaker 1:The punishment and the and the Contrition and the making yourself small and the big, upping your bosses as heroes and like that is not equal To taking a couple nut shots here and there in an NBA game. I'm sorry it's not like and I don't all the stuff around like the purity of give the game and sportsmanship and Call it what you want to call it. Like where, like how I was raised around sports and who and the people who I still engage with around sports like I Don't know if it's, and I really don't know. I don't know if it's racial, I don't know if it's why I'm from the DMV, I don't know if it's like Generational, I don't know, we don't care about none of that shit. If you're winning by 30 and you have a wide, open, fast break, do a 360 like. If you and somebody else Seem to have tension on the court, take a little extra elbow at that person, like it's sports, it's it's. It's like this is where humans get to express something primal. This is where we this is where it's safe to get a little bit Nuts. We have all entire other sport over here where people are like getting concussed on the regular. That's football. And then we have another sport over here where people take their gloves off and whack on each other and literally Knock each other down to the ground and punch on each other in hockey.
Speaker 1:Why does Dreymaung green, why does Dreymaung green have to go do a 60 minute? Not entertaining, sad, somber, what's the word like? Contrite is the only thing I can come up with. Like God, do y'all love seeing somebody be contrite? And the thing that I will connect this back to, like why I actually why I have always enjoyed Dreymaung green breaking and bending and pushing the rules is that, like this stuff, these little, these, these little unspoken rules, all these little like you don't call a time out with under 30 seconds if you're already up by 10, you don't intentionally foul to stop a fast break if you're already winning by.
Speaker 1:Like all these little things that people do to Honestly, all these things that male sportsmen have put in to protect their own email egos so they do emails to protect their own egos, so they don't feel to be made small or dominated when they leave the court. I think they take away from like what is the electricity and the Just like the straight-up primal nature of what sport is supposed to be. And I think Dreymaung green embodied that also. Embodied because I'm getting to the next point, which is that it's over. Like the Dreymaung green experience is over. That's not to say that. That's not to say he's not gonna smack nobody else in the nuts. That's not gonna say he's not gonna punch anybody else. What I mean is, like Dreymaung green, as we have come to know him as an effective basketball player, he'll have some blips, will have some moments where it's like, oh, that's the Dreymaung we recognize. But he said out loud out of his own mouth Wow, what a, what a voice crack. He said out of his own mouth. Adam Silver had to convince him to not walk away from the game right now.
Speaker 1:What I know about having visions of leaving something, anything is like man. Once those visions get real, like once you really start thinking about your life without said thing, once you really start Stepping into that and feeling like, oh, this feels kind of nice, I'm about to move out of New York, it's over, like it's over. I've been talking about it for you, but like it's over now. I was driving the way to work today and I'm like, oh, I'm about to move, like it's over, because I already see my life after New York. I already like, see, I already see the optimistic lens on it. Like I already see, oh, this thing's gonna be better, that thing's gonna be better. All the headaches of moving and the money and all this other shit, like those are all just things I have to design right so I can make this move. But it's, the revolution has already happened in my head.
Speaker 1:It's over with Dreymaung. Green is done. He's saying if the commissioner of the league has to get has to convince you to come back. It's like dog, you're not Kobe, like it's Dreymaung green, it's it's over. So To watch Dreymaung green in that circumstance where he's so clearly just wants, like he said it, I mean he also said in this interview Fame has got like fame is bothering him. Fame is like he's ready to. He said he went and lived in his man cave for two days. Like he wants a break. He put his phone away. His baby daughter had to FaceTime him to get him to come out of the, out of the man cave. Like this dude is exhausted. It's tiring to be Dreymaung green. It's tiring to be back against the wall guy for your whole career.
Speaker 1:So the point that I want the, the, the point that I am trying to make clear here, is that the Dreymaung, to me, the Dreymaung green experience was much, much, much, much, much more great Than it was toxic, in my opinion. I don't like, I Don't know these people. I don't care if they get hit in the nuts playing basketball. I really truly, holistically do not care. I think that's a part of the circus that is entertaining. I don't care if Will Smith walks on stage and smacks Chris Rock. In fact I Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Like I'm gonna get to another segment later about how these dumbass award shows are fizzling and how that's already done and people are pretending that it's not and I have numbers. But like I just want to say out loud before this whole thing washes over and before, like the Dreymaung experience Actually comes to a conclusion, I enjoyed it. I do think it's over, and it really didn't feel good to watch this person apologize for an hour For what I don't think is like that meaningful of an offense. But I do think that I do hope he is able to sell advertisements on that content, because that's also what I saw there. Okay, that's it, millennials.
Speaker 1:We are the ones doing the thing now. I Looted to this, or I spoke a little bit to this last time we were in here, but I'm gonna make a more clear point on it. We are the ones doing the thing now. Where? What is the future? What is valuable, what actually matters? And by what matters I just mean, like what society deems to matter, not what matters to you, not your personal values, but like the stuff that we like and care about Does not have value anymore. Is what I want to say here, and I'm gonna talk about the Golden Globes and I'm also going to talk about the Pat McAfee show and ESPN in doing so. So the Golden Globes were two days ago, allegedly. I have no proof of that because I don't watch the Golden Globes. Thank you, morgan. Um, let me get a couple things out the way, because Morgan said I already talked about word show, so don't do the same bit again, and I'm not going to. I'm actually gonna talk about what I think is Millennials sticking our heads in the sand on some shit. So, and Morgan also said I was honorary Gen Z, which I don't know how to take, but we're gonna get to Gen Z in a second, so award shows do not matter anymore living.
Speaker 1:Let me quickly just give you all the numbers that I'm staring at here so I can stop looking over at them. In 2013, 40.3 million people watch the Oscars. In 2014 43.7 million people watch the Oscars. In 2023 Less than half of that 20. I'm sorry, 18.7 million people watch the Oscars Golden Globes. In 2013 1919.67 million people watch the Golden Golden Globes in 2024 a few days ago, less than half of that 9.4 million people watch the Golden Globes. And, given what I have come to understand about how linear cable companies inflate numbers, I have reason to believe that even fewer than that number of people actually watch the Oscars and the Golden Globes. Does that check out for everybody? Just starting right there? Yeah, okay, so there are 40 million views on Shannon Sharpe's interview with Kat Williams already. That interview took place less than one week ago. I think I was in here on Thursday talking about it. Right, just keep those. Hold those two things in your head. We'll have a beautiful graphic that goes with this. So it'll be very clear. Like 40.4 million people watched Kat Williams on Shannon Sharpe, 9.4 million people watched the Golden Globes.
Speaker 1:The Golden Globes, the Oscars, are allegedly big nights in show business. Right, they're these big, glamorous nights where famous people whose names I don't know, put on very beautiful things and expensive things and designers give them free clothes and they go, walk on red carpets and talk to people who I have known in real life and do not think are good people, and they go yop, yop, yop, yop, yop. Then they walk inside and then somebody goes up in the front and they tell cutting jokes and that person I actually think is smart, and they give out awards to other people who work in my industry right, meaning other people than me, not me ever and people have asked me in the past. I don't even know why they're asking because I feel like they know the answer, but some friends, sometimes family people, want sometimes for me to share in their excitement or in their interest in what's happening at these award shows, which is curious to me if they know me. But what I see in them sometimes is what I expect is Morgan, do you watch these shows?
Speaker 3:I used to. I haven't watched recently, but that's also because I don't have cable.
Speaker 1:Naturally right, naturally, and I don't have YouTube TV.
Speaker 1:There you go, what I see in them, what I see in their eyes as they're enjoying these shows and I mean their eyes figuratively, because I'm listening to their voices or reading their texts, but feeling it is, it's like they're watching. They care about movies, they care about entertainment. No shade, I care about those things too, and they want to see what has been deemed by an unknowable small group of people as being like the best of something the best show, the best movie, the best actor, the best actress, the best script, the best, whatever the best, whatever the best, whatever, generally speaking, the best white person of all these people. And the LA Times did a long exploration many like multiple columns and journalistic explorations over of the Golden Globes and just how non-black their entity was, like their. What are those things called their committee? Their? No, it's not called a committee, it's called a. Come on, we know this. What's the answer? What is it called the?
Speaker 3:association.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's like you know.
Speaker 1:I want to thank what their their academy but, they're not the academy, they're whatever, they're the association, just how non-black they were. But like, more important than that is this I think about, like high school when I think about my industry. That's always the analogy for me is high school. Me watching one of these award shows is like somebody having a party that I was not invited to, but they're being a live streamed camera in that party and me sitting at home watching what's happening at that party. That sounds torturous. Like why would, why would I do that?
Speaker 1:And I do actually know some people cannot look away from something that hurts them. That's not a particular affliction that I have. I will, like you know, ex girlfriend, I will never see your Instagram again for the rest of my life. Like, let me just put it, like that Friend who I who actually turned out to be an asshole like you will never catch me peeping your stories ever again for the rest of my life, until we reconcile. But let me just say I do not have the what's the opposite of Schoenfreude. Is it sadism, masochism? I do not have the masochist streak that makes me want to watch a party that I wasn't invited to.
Speaker 1:I do not, truly strongly don't care who gives a humanitarian speech or a pro black little segment that they know is going to clip well on their Instagram and look good on their YouTube. And who's twisting you all up to make you think like they're a hero of blackness because they're at this thing like don't care, don't care. No, it's not real, do not care. But what I do care about is this I do care about watching these award shows shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink.
Speaker 1:And who actually cares about them? Feel the point where they truly will only have as audience the people who they actually reflect like. They will only have people who look like Greta Gerwig at the end of this thing watching them. Or who's the dude from the bear who actually like Jeremy Allen White? Is that his name? They will only have Jeremy Allen White and Greta Gerwig, looking millennials, watching this show because they don't care how white we keep telling them that they are. They just going to keep being super white because that's what they think is dope. Oh, this would be good. We need this.
Speaker 1:We need to break up the black content we're not the black content, but we need to break up, like you know me, giving social commentary on all the black unks. Let's put this right here. Let's just put that in a box right here that says ratings for produced Hollywood Naval gazing spectacle, that executives like that, hollywood producers like that, studio heads like that thing. That box is shrinking in terms of how much attention we are all willing to give it. Hold space for that. Here's something else Pat McAfee. Do y'all know who Pat McAfee is? Pat McAfee, former NFL punter, I believe, yeah, kicker of some sort Kicker of some sort foot user, but who is jacked.
Speaker 1:Pat McAfee built one of these. He built a podcast and he built it into a podcast. Be hemath, like the biggest sports podcast. He built that and he did so by having, um, I would say, controversial, curious all the way to like dumb ass characters like Aaron Rogers coming on his platform and helping him raise the profile and shooting the shit. He wears a he wears a sleeveless shirt on his show. He's ripped, he kind of looks like a hunter and he's he can be interesting. Um, I think viewers like that. He feels like a YouTuber, which is what he was. He feels like what they are, what the viewing audience is becoming more and more and more keen to, which is a real person talking shit to them as if they're in the same room hanging out. That's what people seem to like. That's what people seem to be into.
Speaker 1:So ESPN maybe the last year, maybe the year before licensed his show. The post reports that he has an $85 million contract with ESPN. He is, as far as I know, by far the highest paid ESPN employee, including people like Stephen A Smith, who sort of um booey, you know their landmark shows. Pat McAfee is the guy over there. Pat McAfee yesterday Stated or or Instagram'd that and I'm sorry, no, not Instagram'd. Pat McAfee stated on one of his Secondary shows, cuz he has the Pat McAfee show, which is like his headlining show, then he has like a YouTube show, then he has like a show on ESPN too. He's got all these ESPN properties. He's got all these Pat McAfee properties. They're not ESPN properties, they license them. And he is saying that the guy who really runs ESPN Do you see his name there, morgan? What's his name?
Speaker 3:Nor nor be Williamson.
Speaker 1:No, rby, yeah, Norby Williamson, who I looked up, who you guys can just Google him. He looks like what you imagine a Media executive in the staleest way to look like. He looks exactly like that. Remember the guy that Scottie Pippen was mad at in the Michael Jordan documentary series? He looks exactly like that some version of that guy, which is what most y'all executives end up looking like, even if you start off looking like me. So Pat McAfee's mad at that guy.
Speaker 1:Because that guy, allegedly based on Pat McAfee's account, has been leaking to media outlets that Pat McAfee's numbers are not as great as he's saying that they are, that his metrics, that the audience numbers for the views on his shows are not as strong as he says they are or are not as strong as they are needed to be to be worth the eighty five million dollar contract that he has there. Pat McAfee is basically saying this old school executive, who many people know to actually be the person that runs ESPN, is at war with him Because Pat McAfee show this is what Pat McAfee wants us to know. Pat McAfee show is Like Pat McAfee's power is becoming greater than the old school media executive who just sits two schmucks in a seat and has them yak at each other over a Chiron right. This thing that's happening with the Golden Globes and the Oscars shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, shrinking to just look like a bunch of Norby Williamson's sitting in the seats watching them. And this thing that's happening at ESPN. They, these are cousins, these are brothers, these are like. The point I'm trying to make is like these are actually what it is, which is if somebody, somebody, some bodies, a bunch of shareholders when is everything I'm just pointing everywhere? A bunch of shareholders and a CEO on Disney. Disney owns ESPN. Espn owns Norby Williamson, espn licenses Pat McAfee and the guy who is owned by the guy, who's owned by the guy, hates that this other person is a mercenary, hates that this other person actually connects to and can talk to you, the audience, and can direct the audience and can derive value from that relationship in a way that Norby Williamson cannot, in a way that Norby Williamson's owners cannot.
Speaker 1:Okay, similarly, shannon sharp Is Pat McAfee in this world, but the Academy and the people who own, who owns the rights to the Golden Globes? I don't even like CBS or somebody stale like that. Somebody over here owns the person that owns the person that owns the Golden Globes and these two are the same people who own the Golden Globes, the person that owns the person that owns the Golden Globes, and these two things, like these two things are at war. This is again. This is like back to the, to the, kevin Hart and the and the cat Williams of it all. Okay, kevin Hart Reports to someone who reports to someone. Cat Williams doesn't report to anybody except for you. These two things are at war.
Speaker 1:But the war, and this is like where I'm really trying to go, because my friends who work at studios have their heads in the fucking sand. My friends who work at Max and Netflix and Amazon and the next place, in the next place, like a pat McAfee is going to walk into your building and put their feet on your desk and eventually like, push you out of the way. But you're 35, you're 36, you're 37, you're not. You're not norby Williamson, he's already rich. Like norby Williamson's been at ESPN for probably 20 years.
Speaker 1:Like norby Williamson is norby Williamson. He's like he's got to be just based on his photo. He's got to be going on 60, probably in his mid fifties. Okay, that guy, the establishment guy, he's trying to like get the last little bits of juice out of something that used to be so rich and so excellent for him, that used to work so well for him, which is just rinse, repeat on the same shit over and over, and nothing can disrupt us. But now Shannon sharp and Pat McAfee are here. And so now, what are you laughing at, morgan?
Speaker 3:good age.
Speaker 1:Oh, how old is he?
Speaker 1:61 word nice, thank you, that's a. That's a. What are those things called stupid Chad trick.
Speaker 1:I am good age, um, the Pat McAfee's and the Shannon, like the, the, the creative, smart people, now the Jin Z years. Like they grow up wanting to build something that is theirs, that they like, that they can monetize. And then they come through person my age, at fucking studio X, at Corporation X, at conglomerate, at conglomerate X. Then they come through and they push you the fuck out of the way and that's what's going to happen for the next 10 years and my generation is still trying to believe that like something that had 40 million viewers on it 10 years ago is still hot, that like it's really great to see. Oh, my god, it's so nice to see, so nice to see so and so like celebrated as a blah, blah, blah at the Golden Globes. Who cares? You guys just spent the last 10 years telling me Oscar so white, who cares if they recognize so and so as a blah, blah, blah. Like you are one of the last people that look different from Greta Gerwig, still watching Greta Gerwig walk across that stage.
Speaker 1:No smoke to Greta Gerwig because I think she's fired, but like just let it die because it's like it's already dead, let's go, let's move on. Let's go on to the next thing, like, let's, let's not go extinct because we wanted to, like, die on this hill. That is the shit we grew up with. I think millennials, who are opting to ignore what's happening with this neck, with this movement, this change that has already occurred, where digital media matters so much more, and not just take digital media out of it, just like what Gen Z cares about matters so much more than what we care about, we are putting ourselves in danger to ignore that. We are putting ourselves in danger to think that millennial sensibilities still matter. They don't. There are a bunch of 55 year old people in jobs right now that they hate because when they were 35, they did what you're doing right now, which is to ignore the oncoming wave can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2:yes, do you think ESPN is going to?
Speaker 1:die.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think ESPN is going to die, because and I'm not saying that whether, regardless how this McAfee thing goes, but I think you know it's really highlighted the fact that ESPN, more so than anything, it's like the four letters are the brand and nobody's bigger than the brand, and that's how they've always operated. But, like I think, now, more so than ever, they're making it abundantly clear that where I mean they're the production company and elite production company, but we're the production company and no one's bigger than the production company. But McAfee is bigger than the production company because he can just walk away and he's still going to have that audience, because he didn't need ESPN before and he doesn't need ESPN now, agree?
Speaker 1:so okay, no, I don't think ESPN is going to die. I'm going to here's. Here's something else that I heard this morning. I was listening to Jamel Hill on Dan LeBertard show. She was talking about some advice that it wasn't even a vice. It was just an observation that Skip Bayless made like to her in the cafeteria oh yeah, I heard that and he said to her I'm paraphrasing ESPN treats people better if they feel like they didn't make you.
Speaker 1:They treat you with a different level of respect and deference and care. If they feel like they didn't make you, espn felt like they made Skip Bayless. Espn felt like they made Jamel Hill, dan LeBertard, stephen A Smith, balmani, jones, and they treated them as such. They treated them as things they could remake. They treated and that's how, frankly in my business, like that's how actors get treated actors get like studios.
Speaker 1:Disney people used to balk when they would see, like wait, chadwick Boseman only made this much for this Marvel movie or for this thing, or for James Brown or the neck, and it's like, yeah, because they feel like they could have just like flicked to the next person on the carousel and gotten the same value out of them. Because the value is the studio believes the value is what they're bringing. It's their inter institutional knowledge on how to build these media assets, how to distribute them, the relationships they have with advertisers, the scripts, the producers they have on staff to like cultivate the talent, etc. Etc. Etc. When you're Pat McAfee and you show up and you already have, I have no idea. Could you just look at how many subscribers Pat McAfee has on YouTube. Yeah, but he was crushing it before he was crushing it like and but.
Speaker 1:But why I think ESPN will not die is because ESPN can strip all that other shit out and then just be left with like they're just left 2.41 million 2.41 million. Now's a great time to mention. We just got to 100 subscribers 110 now 110, while we got 10 in. Like how many days? Like two days?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think, all right, keep subscribing y'all. One day we'll have what did you say 2.4. One day we'll have 2.41 million. But point being, josh, to your to your question, I think I think I think to the question I believe you're probably asking, or remarking on, like I think ESPN as we know it will be dead, yeah, but the ESPN war chest and the budget that they can throw at somebody like Pat McAfee, like you know for what it's, I mean just as someone who's in this experience of building as we are right now, even though Pat McAfee show was doing awesome and was hugely valuable, that does not equal necessarily like cash in hand and ESPN comes through and they're like we got $85 million for you to license your show. They can do that with anybody that sort of pops up, as they could do that for Shannon right now. If they wanted to, absolutely they could off. They could say all right, shannon, we already like you because you're on this thing. You just did this big interview. It blew up 40 million views. I bet the Steve Harvey interview probably has 20 million views on it now.
Speaker 1:Just from the like, the the carry over, which is also just to say for people who are like doing something like this. It's really fun to see how a hit on one thing like affects all the other things. Like it's fun to see how a real that explodes all of a sudden makes people go watch our other stuff. Like it's fun to watch that, but it's also there's a compounding interest here. So I think ESPN will always be able to throw a bag at whoever it is that they just want to bring over and call an ESPN property.
Speaker 1:But the days I pray that, the days of just like it's Mike and Mike in the morning, or like I pray whatever, whatever that show is called now like I pray, the days of just like watching two people on a screen who are straining to yell something that they don't actually care about at each other around sports I really would love for that to die. I really do not enjoy watching people pretend to care about something. That sucks to me so, and that's why I don't like Marvel movies. But no, that's it. I think that's it.
Speaker 2:Um stash you. One more question. Yeah, do you think they have the ability to still make people like, do you think that they do, it's not looking great and and do you think is that something that they still want to do? Because, like, they obviously see a value in having some big names? Obviously, but it's almost like once they get to, once they get to be having so much power, mean Stephen a still there, but Stephen a has a deal where he can now do all this other stuff that he couldn't do that he now owns on his own now, and I think a lot of people are seeing that model and what Mac, if he's doing. And so I'm very curious to see like anything to get your sort of insider thoughts on things about, like what you think about he does.
Speaker 1:Stephen a has the ability to. Okay, do I think they still want to make people like? I think that the value in quote unquote making somebody hmm, is no in many cases.
Speaker 1:This is why I like I hate to say this, but like this is why LeBron is special. Like this is why people like LeBron, beyonce, rihanna, jz, etc. Etc. Etc. I could I wish I had better like less cliche examples, but like, generally speaking, when you quote, unquote, make somebody, I think embedded, there is the fear in them that they can't like without you there. They don't know what they are like, they don't know what I. I can see it in how Stephen a is kind of straddling this line right now. Oh yeah, he doesn't know who he is outside of ESPN. He doesn't like he does these little spills on like his sex life, and I'm like that's not it, stephen a like it really if that's what you think.
Speaker 1:It is over here, like in the wilderness, where niggas are just like we're not looking for 58 year old men it's fun watching him try to figure it out, though it is fun, but but and that's also like you know Dan LeBartar took this jump and and let, but he did it with his old boss, did it with John Skipper hate to admit this one too, but not really, because I do admire this person in a lot of ways. Like Bill Simmons did it, he crushed it. Yeah, like first he built one.
Speaker 1:I mean, he was like the first one as far as I know like he built a baby version of it and Grant land to get it, get the experience, and he was like oh, I really don't need ESPN for any of this shit, and he was out of there. What I, what I would just say, is like the only thing is Like Balmani Jones is outside of ESPN right now and Balmani Jones' profile right now is smaller than it was when he was in ESPN.
Speaker 1:It is Like we're fans so we follow, but like if you're not ready to, if you're not ready for like the E, like I'll just speak, even on like a more personal level. When I left Google, there was an ego thing I had to reconcile which was like when you tell somebody where you work, they don't know what it's called, they don't know what that is, they can't. There was a time where I used to work at this company called Dev Bootcamp. That was the startup I worked with after Google. I bet you, if I call either one of y'all without, if I hadn't said this, two hours from now you guys would be like what was that thing called again? Cause, like, who knows what that is? It doesn't even exist anymore, it has no, it had no brand recognition.
Speaker 1:So I went from being the guy quite literally living in New York City and in the Bay and in London these are big cities where all people talk about his work in the first hour that you get to know them and then I went from being the guy who could always be like I work at Google and that was like legs to stand on and all of a sudden you know you're out, you're hanging out, you're at a party, you're on a date, whatever. All of a sudden, people kind of concise you up to being like, oh, I work at this company called Dev Bootcamp, to all of a sudden being like I'm working on my screenplay, you know what I'm saying. So it's like if you're not, if you're, I mean that's it.
Speaker 2:I'm not. I'm working on my screenplay. I'm working on my fucking screenplay.
Speaker 1:So if you're not built for that like and, to be honest, to be real, I was not built for that I was sick, I was like I was in a bad, was in a bad mood. Okay, I was like I had the. I used to wear my fucking name tag to work, I mean, to the bar. I used to keep my little Google name tag there until someone pointed out and I'd be like, oh my bad, oh, I didn't notice, like whatever. But yeah, you go from that to being like you know, I'm working on trying to get a book deal and it's just, you're just, you're in no man's land. So that the same exists for these ESPN entities. I want to get back to your actual question, because there was something else interesting. You said do they like, do they want to make people? Do they still want to make people?
Speaker 2:I mean can I ask, can I follow up on that? Yeah, but let me.
Speaker 1:Let me just answer that one first. We're like the act. Let me answer what it points to, which is for me, it's like the value in making something is like you own all these little. I'm trying to publish my own, my first screenplay in my book, like the one that I sold to BET, and I have to go back now through old contracts with lawyers to figure out if BET owns the right to publish my shit in a book. And that's like, that's the value of owning something is like you can get all these derivative values out of it.
Speaker 1:Like ESPN built quote, unquote, I don't, and I I'm being careful with how I talk about this Like they built Mena Kimes as an example, right, they made Mena Kimes. Mena Kimes, to me, could have such tremendous value outside of ESPN. Oh, absolutely, you know what I mean. But like she might not be ready to explore that because life happens like real. Like she might. Who knows what expenses Mena Kimes has? Who knows what she needs for her family? She just had a baby, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So so that I think, I think there's value in both. Yeah, can.
Speaker 3:I throw one more angle.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, you guys love this topic.
Speaker 3:Well, it's just interesting but not to drag this on longer but when I think of that, I think of something like SNL and I think at least before, like old SNL, they were responsible for a lot of like huge comedians coming out of that that till this day they can still call on to come back. You know, and I feel like there's value in that also and being like we were there for you in the beginning and we helped do this, and now it's kind of like we can always be like hey, we need an extra person, can you come back?
Speaker 1:Yes, and then there's also um compounding interest on relationships too, and like and goodwill. That thing also works in the opposite way too, though. Like, if you don't treat people good, which is when they have, when they have I mean, this might never happen to ESPN because they have Disney behind them, but, like, disney might also sell ESPN, but when they have their turn, you know there will be. There will be a day when Morgan has the big production company and she's choosing between three different. You know, whatever, whatever I do, she, you're choosing between three of them.
Speaker 1:But, like you have a relationship with me, you know what to expect from me. You know, like, if I'm going to show up on time, you know if I'm going to be an asshole. You know if I'm going to treat people good and it's going to be like, well, chad and these two other people have the same, they have the same size profile, they have the same audience, etc. Etc. But like, but I know this guy know what's really there, and so I think that's the other, and I'm not really considering you to be your, your own thing, right? Like I'm not saying I'm ESPN in this example, but I'm just saying, like, the value of the relationship over time is. It changes shape and it's kind of unknowable, which I think is why it is good for you to treat people good, like Kat Williams is showing us. He remembers who treated him like shit this whole, this whole route, and now all those guys look like fucking clowns responding to him on the internet this week because they treated him bad allegedly. What were you going to say, josh?
Speaker 2:Um no.
Speaker 1:I forgot.
Speaker 2:All right. Um, we've been, we've been milking this topic for a while.
Speaker 1:This is a good one, though. Is there a landing point on here? What I want to say is um, I just want to go back to the like. What I believe is that the pains I'm saying so many things that hurts me to say.
Speaker 1:It pains me to say this, but if I don't spend enough time paying attention to Morgan and watching how she moves and how she thinks and how her friends behave, and like if I, if I just act like I I'm the one who has the vision here and like I know how to work and I'm smart and blah blah, blah, like that is a wasted opportunity because the next 15 to 20 years are going to be owned by people who have habits in her demographic. And I really do think so many of my millennial peers right now feel like I'm director of blah blah blah. It's such a such a thing, and they think they're like. They think they're like pioneering, you know, executive wisdom, having leaders or something, and it's like that is how you go extinct.
Speaker 1:In my opinion, that is how, if you try to recreate SNL right now, if you're trying to like reconnect, if you're trying to recreate Abed Elementary, like that is already too late, like that's already too, gone. Like you've got to do, I got to do the next thing, so that's all I want to say. Also, lastly and then we're going to break I do want to say this wow, it's 1253. Damn, um, no. Morgan said no going back, so let's go. That's it. Let's go to music. I'm not going back to say anything else about Jermon.
Speaker 3:Is it really good or is it repeating something you already said?
Speaker 1:It's just LeBron slander. Let's go, All right. You guys probably now can see that. You know me well enough that I will not say anything. Um, I'm not even going to go near what the actual crime of Jeffrey Epstein is and the darkness of his life and death and behaviors, whatever. I'm just, I'm just, I don't. That's where I have a. I don't have a stomach for it. I just can't even deal. So here's what I am going to say. Epstein list came out. Bunch of names are on it. Bunch of names, Names you all know. I'm not even going to say specific names because I'm too scared. Should I say specific names?
Speaker 3:I mean what comes to mind, I mean it's already out there, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make sure I didn't get tricked on any of these Like like ah, like ah. Does he on there?
Speaker 3:What.
Speaker 2:See, this is where it becomes dangerous. You see, you don't know.
Speaker 1:If you don't know the list, then I think I heard I'm going to tell you what. No, I don't, I can't even do that game. That's not fair. Whatever I'm going to, I'm just going to. Let me just do it like this, Like I heard that on there.
Speaker 3:I know, I know.
Speaker 1:I heard that's a long ass list. This is just the list of people who went to this. I heard, like I heard, I heard it's a long ass list. Let me get to the point Epstein list. Here's the thing there's a list that came out and it says people who have been confirmed to have traveled to Jeffrey Epstein's Island, which was known to be a party island, and there have been many reactions to that information.
Speaker 1:I think one of the one of the reactions that has been strongest has been people being like wow, so and so was there, so and so was there, so and so was there. And the immediate reaction to that. And they're just all famous, like, like world renowned, famous people, like the biggest names in the world as far as celebrities go, and also like politicians and scientists and leaders and whatever. The reaction to that reaction has been side eye, naturally, like whoa, like what was so and so doing there, what was so and so doing there, and I would like to remind that just wealthy people hang out with other wealthy people. There are experiences that only wealthy people can offer to each other. But what has come out of all of this network of reactions and reactions that I have perceived has been an air of disbelief over some of the names and then people go jumping to protect them and saying they must not have known what was happening on the island. Is base is basically been the. The. The landing among the quote unquote sensible. That's been the sticking point is like well, just because they went there doesn't mean they know what was happening there on the island. And here's what I would like to say about that in a way that is non incriminating of anybody.
Speaker 1:Um, I started thinking about like crazy party place, like the places where I've been to some of the wildest parties Ibiza, ibiza, as you annoying Americans who have traveled to Ibiza like to say to sound cultured. I'm just going to call it Ibiza, if you don't mind. Ibiza, where which is the first time I walked into a club that was much the same as a club, like as a EDM or something club here, or like a Coachella after party, except that 85% of people on the dance floor and standing on pillars around the club were butt ass naked and the people standing on the pillars were men who were twirling their giant penises around in their hands. Berlin, which is where I went to any number of clubs, that where the party would start. You would leave your house at 2 in the morning, get something to eat on the way, get there at 3, probably get into the party at 4 and leave around 9 or 10am. There was a club called Stop Bad, which was really cool. That had an empty pool where the DJ performed and everybody danced in the empty pool like a giant pool. It was really cool, but it was multiple rooms and it was very industrial, and there's fire pyrotechnics and stuff like that. There's Burkheim in Berlin, which is famous, which is one you can look up to know what goes on in there B-E-R-G-H-A-I-N, I think, or E-I-N.
Speaker 1:The factory in London, the box right here on the lower east side, where I've had some really crazy nights many, many, many, many and then like just people's houses in different places Kanye's house. Here's the point that I want to land, though, on this thing where people are like, well, they couldn't have known what was going on in the party, and maybe they didn't. I wasn't there, I don't know. I think the whole point, though, of going to a crazy ass party is, even if you don't want to partake in everything that's happening in the party, you at least want to be offered. So if I have $500 million and I go to somebody else's super crazy island or party or whatever and I'm bringing my $500 million to that place, you better offer me everything that you think is interesting to offer somebody. That's on the list. And I think that's the rules.
Speaker 1:Every time I go to a shady place, I get offered everything. I get offered I mean everything short of heroin. You get offered Mali and Coke and this experience and that experience and like kind of like whatever you want. You know what I mean. It's just like it's in the air. So if there's a place where that shit that I'm not going to say out loud is going down, I just find it very difficult to believe that each super wealthy person that went there was not at least made the offer, because it's like well, what's the point of going to this place if I'm not going to be offered everything that this place has to offer me? And that concludes my Epstein list content, because I'm terrified. Jody Foster, this is a funny quote. This is so nice that she said this. Jody Foster, who's probably all right, I'm going to guess another age Jody Foster is. Ah, let's see Jody Foster, is she like 59? Close.
Speaker 3:How old 61.
Speaker 1:Damn it. I thought she was still in her 50s because in the interview she said something about something whatever. Okay. So Jody Foster, legendary actress, director, directed a really cool episode of Black Mirror, had this to say about Gen Z there's a lot of people who are like, oh, I'm going to be a good actor, I'm going to say about Gen Z. They're really annoying, especially in the workplace. Quote, unquote. That's a fantastic, that is a phenomenal quote.
Speaker 2:Damn. I didn't know she had that in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she just, I mean, it was a good interview, she was like shooting it off.
Speaker 3:It was like a smaller section of the interview, but yeah, she says they're really annoying, especially in the workplace Do you want me to read the rest of it?
Speaker 1:Sure Gen Z representative.
Speaker 3:They're like no, I'm not feeling it today, I'm going to come in at 1030 AM. Or like in emails, I'll tell them this is all grammatically incorrect. Did you not check your spelling? And they're like why would I do that? Isn't that kind of limiting?
Speaker 1:So I asked via text, I asked Morgan what she thought about this and in so many words she was like yeah, I'll let you know when I let you know. She's like I'll get to it when I get to it. I'll get to it when I get to it.
Speaker 2:I'll let you know when I get to it, I'll just walk with you.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding, morgan. Why don't you take the floor? And I'm going to ask a very pointed and specific question to get you going.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:There's a profile of your generation that has been created right, which is like a person who basically has, like, their phone glued to their face. They live in theory. Everything lives in theory, like. Everything is like a Morgan's having the long swig of coffee here. Everything is like a talking point for something that is social justice oriented. There's a lot of like. There's a million people who are ready on a moment's notice to tell you that you know, sexuality is a spectrum, even if you're like, even if you're just the person at the window, and specifically as regards working people think you all are like, flimsy and lazy, and you know that, especially of all those descriptors, I strongly do not think you fit that last descriptor at all Like. I think you're the opposite of that. But the pointed question is like, do you find your generation annoying?
Speaker 3:Oh, I think we can be totally annoying. I also think we're comical, we bring a lot of comedy into the world. But I think that, and when it relates to like work stuff, what I mentioned, that I feel like the biggest thing people have a problem with is that my generation is pretty adamant about boundaries, like unlike generations before, which is why I gave you like the honorary Gen Z thing, because you're like, yeah, you don't want to do some shit, like don't do it. Or you know, like I think we're also work smarter, not harder. So it's like, why am I showing up at 10? I can get this done in an hour, like anytime of the day.
Speaker 3:You know things like that that I feel like people are off, put by and they don't like it. Because it's like, well, we're in office and we show up at 10. And that's the rules. And it's like, well, our I think our generation kind of feeds back at that and it's just like, well, no, I could do this whenever and still get it done when you need it. So why? I think that's like the difference.
Speaker 1:I feel like Okay, I and I think I said this to you more or less in the text which is like I think that what's frustrating, especially to my generation and probably also gen X, about Gen Z is, well, we were so used to people just like reaching into our time and energy and taking what they need from us, basically like somebody wants this thing done by two in the morning, and also like millennials are kind of changing history, because I think we were the first ones to act like this, to be like I don't feel like it, like I'm quitting or I'm leaving, or we were the first people who had, you know, eight different companies on their resume in the first 10 years of their career.
Speaker 1:So we are quick to quit, quick to give up on some shit, quick to like. You know, we were quick to start adapting boundaries and now we are quick to judge Gen Z for doing that same thing. I guess my question, as you see it play out, is like Do you think that people in your generation, if you have to generalize, want to have like, how much do they care about like a career, meaning something that has like a long arc of? I am sticking with it and staying at this particular thing for like as my life basically.
Speaker 3:I feel like it's split. I still feel like there's very much. I have a bunch of friends who are want to be lawyers in her, in law school and doing the whole lawyer thing like that's like a long commitment, so I don't feel like that's completely lost. People still want those types of careers. I do think, though, that there's a little more openness to finding your own thing, even if people don't like get it. So I have a friend right now, actually, who like just quit his job, like last week, because he wants to be an actor, and was just like everything is so limiting, like fuck it, I'm just going to do it, like with no real set thing. That people would probably say you need to have a plan of XYZ thing, and I feel like that is slightly common. For people just to like this is just not it. I don't know if I answer your question, does he?
Speaker 1:feel any shame about that choice. Like is he? No? Like what's his vibe? What's his vibe as he, just as he communicates?
Speaker 3:He's happy that he has like prioritized himself in the workplace in his life overall. Yeah, it's. There's like no shame whatsoever, which I think is like slightly off-putting, because you would expect someone to be like yeah, like I don't know, but he's like no, I don't know and I'm happy about it, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, fine, fair enough, okay, Well, I'm trying to understand why I'm here's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to put myself in the place of the person who finds Gen Z are so annoying In many ways. I mean, I think Gen Zers are young, but like young people are always young, forever. That's what youth is. But what is the? I'm trying to wrap my head around this specific or particular thing that grinds people's gears so much around Gen Z, and I don't think I have like a good handle on it. To be honest with you. Do you have a good hand?
Speaker 3:Because you're an honorary Gen Z. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I do feel like an honorary Gen Z, but I'm also just like what's the? I mean like what's the big deal? Millennials, we do all the same stuff. We're just puffier now. Like what's the difference?
Speaker 2:I think it's that they, we think that they feel like they know everything already.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:That is annoying yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, the one thing that I can't stand is like the self diagnosing of their mental health issues without ever having seen a mental health professional in their lives whatsoever. They follow somebody on Tik Tok who says something and they're like, oh, I have that. I'm like really, really, you know that's a good point.
Speaker 3:No, I will say also the thing that like, and for me, I feel like I'm a cusper, like I was still a 90s kid, you know and so but I look at my brother, who was born in 2000, and, like they, it is very like I watch this YouTube video and now I get it. It's like you have a person who maybe got their masters in. I don't know economics.
Speaker 3:It's like well, I just watched five YouTube videos and now I get it Like how do you know more than me? And so? And then there's also you know the value on like education. But I do think that stuff is annoying when someone's like I have been in this industry for 15 years. How are you going to tell me, after watching five YouTube videos, that you know the same amount as me?
Speaker 1:Yes, there's something else actually that I have noticed. You don't have this affliction working, but I'm noticing this in others. I think there's a belief in, there's a belief in self and in individual capacity. That is In some ways healthy, but in other ways I think it's like prohibitive of communal growth. So specifically, morgan, as you know, like I still use this device to make phone calls, like I think that's valuable, I still think it's, I think there's so much more that can happen if me and another person can actually hear each other's tone of voice and understand what's being said and like communicate through solving a problem or just like getting to know each other over time.
Speaker 1:The sense that I get in some of the Gen Zers that I have worked with is they, they almost want to be like, they almost want us to use each other like computers, like they almost they don't actually want to like get to know a human being. They want to like, they want to, they want us to, they want us to be like stock traders with each other, like only tactical, exchange pleasantries here and there via text, sometimes voice memo, but they don't act, and I'm like this is dumb. I'm like this is not the, this is not how I want to live my life, like in a in a chad shaped bubble where, like all my colleagues, only want to do Tamagotchi exchanges with each other, like that is useless to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah so that part about Gen Z. Like you know, if you guys are all depressed it's because you're lonely. Like it's because you guys don't know how to talk to people.
Speaker 3:No, that's so funny because what the face of for me is that you call at like the redness times of day, and then sometimes you'll be like, morgan, what's wrong? Like I can use the voice and it's like because it's so much easier to just like exchange information over text, because you can't hear tone, so it's like I can having the worst day of my life, and you're like, oh, morgan, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1:I want to talk about it, like and you don't have to talk about it, but like another human being should know, like you know, it's like, I'm like what I'm like it's, it's that part, and actually let me think let's just save 10 minutes for this last thing we got to do.
Speaker 3:But also Jeffrey Lee said Gen Z has been promised nothing. Therefore they have nothing to lose, and then they're going to just make time for what they want.
Speaker 2:I think that's true which yeah valid.
Speaker 1:But what do they want? They just want to play video games. They I'm sorry they you, gen Z, what do you like? It's? It's a little bit. It's a little frustrating to me, because you know what this might actually be. Why it's frustrating. We all have our skill sets and our advantages, and what we're good at, what we're bad at. I can get a little extra by, like, having a high emotional quotient, and that value is is negated. If somebody will not form a relationship with me, then I can't like. You know what I'm saying. I can't do the thing like. I can't like. That's the end. I don't want to build, I don't want to build a team. That's just like people texting each other, that's. It doesn't mean I want to sit on zoom calls. It doesn't mean we got to have like yearly off sites or like any of that old archaic shit or whatever, but like there is something to be said about people who work with each other actually knowing each other. In my opinion, that is it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or else we're all just like looking Malaysian call centers like I don't want to think we're not like support staff, like I don't know. It's just, I'm just like what. I mean this is crazy. I mean, this is creativity. Like, how do you do creativity through? Just like you know what I mean emailing each other. It's the equivalent of, like rappers always like sending each other their verse. So you go record in a different studio and it's like there's no, there's no continuity of experience, there's no content, there's no like communal culture that gets set in doing so. So that's really annoying. All right, well, thank you for being here. This is nothing but anarchy. Please continue to subscribe on YouTube. I think we just had was that our biggest week of downloads in one week? Yeah, we just had our biggest week of downloads in one week. Please keep sharing, talking to each other, talking to us, talking to the show, telling us what y'all want to know about, what you guys want to hear about. That's it, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
