Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
Subscribe to the "Nothing But Anarchy" Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #81 HBOMax Cancelled RapSh!t, SNL & Lorne Michaels' Replacement, Beef Between Michael Jordan and Jerry Krause, and American Fiction
In this episode Chad opens up about his feelings about RapSh!t being cancelled, SNL humor, Lorne Michaels, American Fiction, and the beef between Michael Jordan and Jerry Krause.
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
Okay, welcome to the man anarchy. I'm Chad Sanders. We got a bunch of stuff to talk about today. Also, we had a what I thought was a very good show on Thursday and we're going to take a cue from that show, which is that I took a half step away from the script, the numbers, the script by the script. But I just mean, like, we have this docket here that has if you're listening on podcast you can't see, but if you're here on YouTube live you can see. It's like about like this long. It's kind of an outline that just has. You know, here it's a docket. Here's the major bullets, here's what we're going to talk about, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I find it useful to have as a backbone to the show just in case it's like, okay, you've gone on a tangent, now bring it back and find your way to the next thing. But what feels more important, more pressing for when we do this show, is that I can go where I actually feel something. I can go where I actually feel a burning point of view, curiosity, a story that I need to tell, something I'm trying to put together in my head, and there's a few of those today. So we're going to get right into them.
Speaker 1:Last week on Thursday, we did the show. I walk out, I go to the bathroom and, as one does in the bathroom, whip out my phone and I have a text there from my friend, leon, who is a Hollywood writer and also one of my best friends from ever or from college, but like very, very close friend you guys have heard me talk about him he's called into the show, et cetera, got text from Leon and it's a press release that says that rap shit, which is a HBO max show that I wrote for a couple of years ago, has been canceled. And after two seasons it's been canceled. And blah, blah, blah. And there's this silly ass like PR, scripted you know announcement from HBO that says it's so corny Like I can just see the face of the person who wrote it Blonde, white woman, no doubt and it says like we're going to miss, we're going to so much miss seducing and scheming with Shawna, and you know we can't. We're going to have that song playing in our heads forever. We wouldn't have it any other. It's like just like the corniest, most ridiculous shit in the world. But the show's canceled. And I said I was going to list out the things we've been talking about, but fuck, I'm just going to start talking because we're here.
Speaker 1:By the way, live show Washington DC, february 8th that's a Thursday Shanklin Hall is the venue. 7 o'clock doors open 730 tickets. Go buy your ticket now at Shanklin Hallcom or on my Instagram at the link in my bio. So anyway, rap shit gets canceled, as it did weeks ago, but as it was announced on Thursday and as I find out as a civilian who was let's call it a spade, who was, however you want to say it nicer mean fired is probably the meanest way to say it Let go, not brought back, parted way, went separate ways, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That is my relationship to rap shit.
Speaker 1:I wrote on season one, wrote there for the whole season with the other writers. I, toward the end of the writers room, had many moments where my book had just come out. It's 2021. My book had come out in like February. I'm writing on this show in I don't know summer and I'm hot at that point in time, like people want me to come speak at things and they're willing to pay me to do so, and so I am contractually bound to write on this show and be in this writers room. But it occurs to me some months into writing on the show that I am not as much as I am probably, you know, one of the more crafted voices in the room, because I'm like my own thing outside of screenwriting. I'm not like one of the bosses in the room and I knew that coming in.
Speaker 1:But I did not know the hierarchy of a writers room was such that, like the showrunner, the creator, the executive producer, they're all up there. Then there's like some producing writers who are like in here, and then there's staff writers and then there's, like you know, writers, assistants and stuff like that. There's a very hierarchical hierarchy and I realized at some point during the process of this that even though I keep speaking up and having a point of view and thinking, I see things that I want the story to be in, the characters to be whatever. Of course this is a collaborative process, but also I am not. I'm not up there in the hierarchy. So I'm having to make decisions every day between, okay, do I sacrifice going and speaking and promoting my book for my job which is here on Wrapshit, or do I go do my thing and go promote my book and let the cards fall where they may, and so I'm imagining that at some point during this process, the showrunner, the other writers, the producers probably came to realize or notice Chad is a little bit one foot in, one foot out here and I think, to be honest, I think that was probably fine with them because I did not matter that much in the grand scheme of the room. So I think I made the right decision, which was to go promote my book.
Speaker 1:All right, fast forward show comes out. I got to write an episode. I got to be in the show for two seconds. That was really cool for me. I did a screening, I did a watch party. Morgatron came and worked at the watch party and it was really fun, and budget people you know in New York and Brooklyn came out and we did a Q&A afterward and it was cool. It was like I got to feel like a part of the Wrapshit experience, even though most of the Wrapshit experience was occurring in Los Angeles, where all the writers live besides me, and maybe one or two others in Miami, which is where most of the show was shot, except for my episode which was shot in New York, and it was nice to be able to feel as much as I didn't feel like a part of the inner, inner circle of that group. It was nice to be able to feel like a part of that for that, for that week when my episode was coming out and we did the screening and all that Fast forward.
Speaker 1:Actually, that night somebody said to me hey, somebody who I worked with at the time said to me hey, I know that they are getting ready to ramp the writers room back up for season two. Have you talked to anybody? And I say no, I honestly I haven't. I hadn't heard anything. I was just assuming that they were waiting to see if it got renewed, etc. Blah, blah, blah. So I wait for a little bit. A few weeks go by, a few weeks go by, maybe, maybe. Then a month goes by, haven't heard anything. And finally I get on the phone with one of my agents and she says hey, we're looking at staffing you for another show. Are you interested in this or you're not? Whatever, whatever.
Speaker 1:And the truth is and I think I've been pretty honest about this for the last couple years like staffing on a TV show is not that interesting to me, like it's just it is not a glamorous or fun or exciting job. It's just not. I'm sorry if that kills somebody's dream. Maybe it will be for you, but for me it's like working at an assembly lot for cars but for your creativity. And my agent is asking me about if I want to staff somewhere. I don't. But then I'm like, wait a second. I already had a job, like what's up with that thing? And I asked her and she says oh, I thought they would have reached out to you. They let us know a couple days ago that they will not be asking you to come back to rap shit.
Speaker 1:And I feel two things at once which is actually something that I'm carrying right now, about something completely different. I feel two things at once. I feel the giant, this giant sigh and wash over of relief, like, oh, wow, well, I'm glad I won't have to do that again. And I also feel, of course, some level of rejection, failure, once again, not being a part of the club. You know, oh, maybe I wasn't this enough to be a part of that, to be a part of that room again. Maybe I wasn't Fuck it Black enough, funny enough, not funny enough.
Speaker 1:Maybe they weren't loving this, like maybe I was too fucking straight. You know what I mean. Like not crime your river, right, but like maybe I was any one of these things. Why are you smirking, morgan? You like this. I told you I was going to have a new angle here, and the reason why I have a new angle is because this angle is the truth, because I got permission to tell the truth over the weekend. But I'm going to get to that. Maybe I'm too this, maybe I'm too that, maybe whatever. Maybe I didn't kick you enough, maybe I didn't like know the slang from Twitter hard enough, maybe I don't, maybe I'm not on the internet enough, like, maybe I just think some shit is not funny that y'all think is funny. And I ultimately do think that those are the things. That were the things. Right, it was you, just not.
Speaker 1:And when I say not black enough, I, jesus Christ, I don't mean actually black, I mean Twitter black. Maybe I wasn't black enough, because get the fuck out of here. So now I'm getting angry. I started getting angry when I saw your smirk. I don't know why. It's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 1:But someone the same person who gave me permission to tell the truth also told me she loves this show. Because I get angry, but I'm not bitter, and I was like that is exactly the truth. Like because I'm not bitter, I didn't walk out of there like oh man, like fuck these niggas, they didn't want me back. Like, oh, they think I'm not. Whatever they think it's like maybe I'm not part of the club. Of course I was bitching about it, of course I was a little salty, but like, I think everything I did thereafter was in support of, and I hope that this goes well for them.
Speaker 1:I texted immediately the showrunner and said, though I had not heard from this person. I said, hey, like thank you so much for this opportunity. It was dope to work with you, blah, blah, blah. And I wasn't being fake, I meant that I needed that. I needed that opportunity. That was a part of a momentum that was growing for me. That gave me another experience to see things, see how things work, see what I want to do, see what I don't want to do Be a part of a show on a network.
Speaker 1:I'm a fucking HBO stand Like I watch H. I'm watching Boardwalk Empire for the third or fourth time. I've watched Game of Thrones 10 to 12 times. I've watched the Sopranos 10 to 12 times. Like I'm a stand and I got to work for the network that I've always admired since I was a teenager Hard knocks, whatever but I was a go. So I start down. You know I'm going down this other path and I'm watching out of the corner of my eye, not intentionally, but just like here and there. You know what I mean. Nina works for rap shit. So I still have, like I still have a connection to someone who's a part of that circle, even though for the most part I haven't really heard from anybody else over there, except that Isa came on direct deposit, which again I am very grateful for. I think that her story and her name were very important to that project. So I'm just telling the truth here. I'm going down this path.
Speaker 1:That show goes and ramps up for another season. They bring some new writers back, they bring a writer in to replace me and they go and make the show. They make a second season. I have not watched any of the second season, but I still know enough from the marketing, from the Instagram handles, from just a little bitty blips of information that I get by way of my corner of the internet, that the show is happening, but I'm not hearing very much of a conversation about the show, which surprised me, because when I wrote on the show, I felt like it. Maybe it was because I was creating that conversation around myself, but I felt like I was getting a lot of you know just people telling me what they thought about the show and I didn't tell people I wasn't writing on season two for the most part, only close friends and colleagues, but like I didn't hear nothing.
Speaker 1:So I was like, great, I don't have to think about this thing all the time that I was once a part. Because let me tell you all something this is something to know about me because I posted a story a few days ago that said once as soon as I heard about it, I want, I wanted to get this message out as quickly as possible, which is you do not need to console me about rap shit. I don't work there, no more. I didn't work there for over a year. I'm fine, it's cool. You know thoughts and prayers, and I really meant that because and we're going to come back to this later when we talk about Michael Jordan and Jerry Krauss, like when it is over between me and some sort of entity as such. It's so. It is so much over. I will treat that thing as though it never existed, unless I have a use for it. Okay, I was never going to turn on another episode of rap shit.
Speaker 1:Not because I'm bitter, but because I am. I am a focused person, like I am. I have so much to pay attention to that I cannot even give one little ounce of something to pay attention to that I do not care about and that I'm not a part of. That's how I feel about it. Let's get to the point on this show, maybe a month ago, maybe two months ago, I can't remember exactly as this, while season two of this show was on. Where I'm going with this, by the way, is like I I woke up yesterday with a deeper level of faith that I'm allowed to be honest. Okay, on this show, in my life in general, a lot of what stops me from being all the way real, as real as I can I'm not real, as real as I really want to be is fear. Fear that I'm going to set off the wrong person and they are going to shut me down, humiliate me, attack me, curse me out, whatever.
Speaker 1:A couple months ago, on this show, I said which I would I stand on, which is that if Lena Waithe made rap shit and not Issa Rae, people would look at that show completely differently. And I pretty much just left it there. I didn't go much further than that. I just said the thing because I think anybody who can hear clearly, who knows how to follow a story, understood the dog whistle of what I was saying, which is like if Lena Waithe made that show, people would call it every order of caricaturizing us hyperbolic, fake, unsophisticated, thin hollow, two dimensional, etc. That's what I was trying to say. And that's because of brands established by two different creators. For all the different reasons that a brand is established and all the different ways a brand is established. Okay, issa's thought of one way, lena Waithe's thought of another way, and depending on who you ask, those two, those two things are thought of differently. But I'm saying within my corner of, you know, black, creative leaning, intellectualizing people. That's sort of how those two people are looked at and that's how Lena Waithe's work might have been considered. Sorry, issa Reyes' work might have been considered had she been Lena Waithe.
Speaker 1:Is it fair not for me to say, is it honest not for me to say I have big love for Lena Waithe, who has never faked on me, not one single time in this industry, and I've said that a bunch of times on here. So I'm leaving my opinion on their work out of this for now. The point is just that that's how those two brands are conceived of within specific pockets of culture. I said that on the show and I stopped there because I felt that already I had walked a little bit past the line of where it's safe to be honest about this thing that you're a part of, within which you have actual human relationships with these people. Okay, like they can text you, they can call you, they, like they kind of have a sense for who you are and there could be backlash.
Speaker 1:That reel goes up does pretty well. I think there was some conversation in the comments and people shared it and it was like I think some people who have, who are willing to use their brains and who are willing to keep it a stack were like that's true, but I don't pay much attention to like. I kind of like pull my head out as soon as these things go out. I watch the numbers but I pull my head out of the conversation around them because I don't want to get too mired or mirrored. How do you pronounce that word? I don't want to get stuck in the mud with it.
Speaker 1:So maybe two weeks ago, aida Osman, who is the star of Rapshit, sends me a direct message and she says in so many words I've been seeing your clips from your podcast. Can we have a conversation about Rapshit for real? Lol. And I respond immediately. She sends me a number, I call, I text, I'm like I'm here for it. As much as I am somebody who can be afraid of having to carry other people's feelings and emotions, I will show up for it quickly if I know that that's what's in front of me. So I'm here for it. I said the thing, I put it on the internet. This is a person I actually know and if she wants to talk about it, let's talk about it. And didn't hear back from her for a couple of days, didn't hear back from her for about a week and a half, maybe two weeks, and I'm like, okay, I guess this just went away. I mean, maybe in a moment she was feeling angry, or she was feeling poorly received, or she was feeling like I was trying to troll, or like rock the boat for something, or maybe she just thought I was being a weenie but like, fuck it, maybe she got over it, maybe she's not, maybe she don't even want to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Saturday night I'm out at a hookah bar. Music is blasting there with a couple folks. They're having drinks. I'm having hookah, having a good night, and 11 30 PM I get a phone call. It's Aida. I don't pick it up, I missed the call. I look at my phone. It's a missed call there. Call right back music. I'm like, hey, I'm gonna call you back after I get out of here. Yada, yada, yada. Don't get her that night, get her the next day.
Speaker 1:And we have a 30 minute conversation and I am expecting for that conversation to be about how I'm wrong about rap shit. I'm bitter because I got let go. I'm this, I'm that. You know that's what I'm expecting because, like people and there are it is an intimate relationship. It's like you say something about black magic. You know, even if I know it's true, the first thing I'm gonna feel is hurt. The first thing I'm gonna feel is sensitivity. The first thing I'm gonna be I'm gonna feel inclined to defend it. It's like if you talk about somebody's kid, even if you know it's true about the kid, like they're still gonna try to protect the kid and explain to themselves and someone else like why it's that way and why it was intentional. So I'm expecting possibly the ferocity of a thousand sons.
Speaker 1:And let me be clear Aida is like a genius level person. I'll stop right there for now. She's a genius level person. She's super smart. She's written on several TV shows. She's written for Big Mouth. She's the star of rap shit. She wrote on rap shit. She's 27 years old. She was 24 years old when we started this thing. Like, she is a prodigy. As far as I see her, I think she is going to be one of these people working at an extremely high level in Hollywood for the next 50 years, if that's what she chose, chooses and I think she's about to burn my fucking eyebrows off for what I have said and what she says is not that okay. And I will not say what she says over those next 30 minutes, because that is. I asked her if I could recount. I asked her if she'd come on the show. I asked her if she and what I have committed to is to saying that, like she's good, she's working on her own stuff.
Speaker 1:Now Show's canceled, you know whatever, but her point of view on my point of view was I listened to your. This is her saying this I like your show, I like how you talk. Because you are, you can get mad, but not bitter. I think you are one of the last she says this and I don't actually even feel this way about myself. But she says I think you're one of the last radical voices we have left. That's how she puts it. I don't think of myself as a radical voice. I'm actually very scared of the word radical. It's scary for black people.
Speaker 1:And she does not try to undo any of the things that I have said about the show and she feels quite surprised that I would even be worried that she would have wanted to undo the things that I thought about the show. In fact, she says in so many words use your voice, keep using your voice, Keep doing your thing. The truth is the truth, one way or the other. Your honesty is your honesty, one way or the other. Like, do what you do. And just to put a pin on that particular conversation, like what I walked out from that conversation was what I walked out with was fuel. I walked out feeling you just faced somebody, and by face I just mean like you spoke to them, like you didn't avoid them. You talked to someone who could have felt undermined, hurt, pricked, poked at by something that you said that was honest, and they didn't try to smack you around for that thing. In fact, they said, like double down, keep doing your shit, like go, like go harder, we need this, like we need this, and so where I'll land it is.
Speaker 1:This is what I actually think about rap shit in Iida. I think the show's writing and tone and texture I think it's going to be very easy for some people to look at that show and say, ooh, the star of that show failed the show, and I think it's the other way around. I think Iida was built to do a smart, funny, creative, nuanced, subversive show like Atlanta, and I think and I'll say we, the broader, we undermined her potential with a very thin concept, with very, very thin writing, with very, very thin characters, very thin interactions, like I don't think the show said anything interesting or new or unique or special about our experiences and that's a failure I share. So recipes, rap shit. Okay, we've done a lot of coverage and conversations about blacks lately, so let's talk about white people now.
Speaker 2:That's true, you killed me with blacks.
Speaker 1:Blacks. Now we're going to talk about whites. So yesterday I was listening to a podcast called the Town. I told you I listened to a million gazillion podcasts. This podcast is called the Town. It is hosted by a guy named Matt Bell. Is it Belloni Bellonini?
Speaker 2:Bellon, yeah, Belloni it's either Belloni or Bellini.
Speaker 1:Sorry, matt, but he is, I think, an excellent industry critic and journalist around Hollywood entertainment. He tells you what's going on at a really high level, but also in the details. He is informed. His show is on the ringer. He has guests on who often have really really deep analysis on what's happening with the industry trends in Hollywood, and yesterday I was listening to him have a conversation about the future of Saturday Night Live and specifically the 50-year anniversary of Saturday Night Live is coming up next year and the creator and executive producer and larger than life figure who resides over Saturday Night Live, lorne Michaels. He is in his 80s and he is planning on his he's making his succession plan for Saturday Night Live. This is all as reported by Matthew Belloni or Belloni. Whichever one it is. We'll get it right in the real. I do think the real will come from this.
Speaker 2:He's 79.
Speaker 1:He's 79. I'm sorry he's turning 80 is what Matthew Belloni says. So that means he started SNL in his probably when he was 30, which is crazy and it has lasted now for 50 years. He needs a succession plan. Saturday Night Live how do we feel?
Speaker 1:First, let me give you a personal anecdote. I might have shared it before, but if you knew this, you all just say it again. About five, six years ago I was maybe a year or two into this journey and I was living in Bed-Stuy and I was just kind of getting my way, my bearings, around this industry and getting to know people and meet people. And a big thing for me at that point in time was just I just wanted to meet famous people, and I don't just mean specifically famous people, but people who seem to have power in the industry. My point of view on myself at that time I guess it was sort of I think it was somewhat true and then also naive in its own way was just if you just put me in the room with someone, if you just get me lunch with someone or coffee with someone, I will be able to sell them on me. And there is truth to that. Like I am, I can be a strong salesman, I am a convincing person. Oftentimes that's because I am selling you something that's actually real, like something that I either have actually done or believe in. But at that time I hadn't done shit, so all I could do was sell people on what I believed in and what I thought I could do. And I had this one TV pilot that I had been traipsing around with. But I also had the right cosign. I had Spike Lee's cosign.
Speaker 1:So my manager, one night it's probably one o'clock in the morning, I'm in the Lower East Side, maybe it's like 1.30. And I'm out on a date and he says, hey, I'm at the SNL after party Idris Elba just hosted and we're here with Lorne Michaels. Come pull up. Have I told this story already? I think you have, and this was a sign to me. This is a this as I think back on it. This was a signal to me as I, as Chad, saying Chad, when you think, when you like, if you want to know who you are, look at some moments like this this is who you are, chad. I was having a really good time on the date. It was going well and it wasn't like a super daty-ass date. It wasn't like fancy, it wasn't you know, posh, it wasn't like. It wasn't like one of those like interview dates where two people sit across from each other at dinner and it's like you know. So what do you? I don't know. What do you want from life?
Speaker 1:It wasn't like that, it was just, it was just a vibe, it was just good, it was fun. We were at a bar, we were kicking it. I was attracted to this person, it was a good night, it was 1.30, whatever. So I replied something like OK, bet, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a come I'm a pull up, like I was going to go take the train or jumping to Uber and ride over to the S&O after party. And 20 minutes go by, 30 minutes go by.
Speaker 1:I keep texting like yeah, I'm about to be there, I'm about to be there and I had already decided in my head, even though I wasn't willing to accept it, that like I don't care more to meet Idris Elba and Lorne Michaels than I do to just spin the rest of this night with this one person who, by the way, I never went on another date with ever. Ok, I have not even seen that woman another time since that one night that we kicked it and I wouldn't trade it. Like I'm going to give a fuck about Lorne Michaels. Like this is like. This is what honesty is. Like I don't care, I really don't care, I really, really, really don't care to go sit in front of another old white guy. I just don't care and like I wish I could just love that person who was my 29-year-old self. Like I wish I had made myself now, because it's not always like that easy for me to accept that thing about myself.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it makes me think, damn, chad, like you're never going to be, you're never going to have all the things that you want in life, because you will not make yourself go actually give a fuck about Lorne Michaels, like it's never going to happen, because you will stay on that date or you will stay at your boy's house playing Madden or you will stay at home with Penny watching a movie because you're having a good time with yourself. And who cares about Lorne Michaels? Who the fuck cares? But a part of why it's who the fuck cares. You're scared of this. Are you scared of this?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, but you're scared of it for yourself a little, because you live in New York and you work in. You work in NBC. Are you scared of this?
Speaker 2:Am I scared of what you're saying?
Speaker 1:The concept.
Speaker 2:No, but I do. But do you want to finish? No, tell me, I was saying, but I feel like it's interesting because if you had gone, it's not even guaranteed that anything really great could have happened, which I feel, like some people think, but there's maybe a 30% chance something amazing would have happened. You would have connected with someone and your whole life would be different. But there's a greater chance that you would have gone and just like nothing would have happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really good point. Like there's a magical thinking that we do that is like we are one Lorne Michaels after party, away from being Michael Che or being Tina Fey or whatever. And you, it's astute because, like, I think, rarely in the moment are we actually doing that math that the printed signatures are so small. But it really just came down to in that moment and I remember this being the beginning of, if I'm honest, my, probably my manager at the time and my team being like, oh, like this person Is going to require sort of a, a Bespoke sort of management style, like a you like a different sort of management style that, quite honestly, I don't think they have time for. For somebody like me, like, maybe, if I'm the rock, you have time to like be all funky about how you manage the person, but like, for me, I'm not at that size, I'm not at that level. It's just like, well, we're gonna try our best, we'll try to put him in the right rooms, but like, if he, if he is so whatever, that he doesn't just show up, when we tell him show up, then like onto the next one. You know what I mean. Even if we keep him as a client. It's on to the next one in thought, it's on to the next one in action, motion, whatever. Now, all that was just a given anecdote about how I actually feel about look and like. The person represents the brand okay. So, lord Michaels, part of why I don't I know it is supposed to be the New York writers dream to write for or be on SNL. I know that that's supposed to be the case. I'm 35, though, okay, by the time I was like really watching adult television, snl was already Deeply into losing its sparkle as something that is important. I know it's listen if you're in New York, if you're in Los Angeles. I know you guys still think Saturday Night Live is important. I know somebody is. I know some people who listen to this show, who are sitting there being like, oh, chat doesn't know SNL, it's so important. I have the ratings in front of me. Morgan gave them to me. The podcast host says on the podcast well, you know SNL's ratings have fallen, fallen, fallen, but like it still does. Really great on socials. Just great on socials because people like seeing famous people. Just great on socials Because people want to look at Jacob L Erdie. Not, they want to look at Sydney Sweeney, it's not because it's SNL, it's because, like, they're doing the same thing that other brands do. They're hiring influencers to make their shit blow up on TikTok. Like that's not SNL Specific. That has nothing to do with the right here that the with the writing or the fucking brand of SNL. Like that's famous people. We love looking at famous people. Jacob L Erdie thinks he needs to go to SNL to promote his movie. Snl needs Jacob L Erdie to promote SNL.
Speaker 1:Okay, but here's the real point. Um, I'm gonna tell you all the names of. There used to be a blog called stuff people, white people, like y'all familiar with that. We've talked about that. Have you heard of that? No, yeah, I remember. I remember that. Yeah, it's been a while since I heard about it.
Speaker 3:It's been a while, but I never okay. So all right, another quick anecdote.
Speaker 1:I think we're doing something good here, so I'm just giving clear out. Let me just do this, let me just give me the lane. Okay, morey, can I have a clear out? Okay, thank you, thank you, so all right.
Speaker 1:When I worked at Google like 2013, 2012, no, 2011, because I was working in Mountain View. This is my first year at Google. Okay, so I am full of Google Kool-Aid. At this point in time, I think that the whiter and Mousier I can make myself, the better my life will be. The more I can resemble a Like in spirit, the more I can resemble like a scrawny little white guy with a wrinkled t-shirt on and khaki shorts, the better my life will be. That's what I see around me at Google. That's what the culture of Silicon Valley is telling me. It's a good thing. That's what the culture of Silicon Valley is telling me. It's telling me that the pinnacle of man is a very small, weak white boy who cannot play sports and is probably today, 10 years later, and an Incell that's what they're telling me is the dopest shit ever. So I'm trying to be like that and to make it all so much worse, a Extremely smug White boy who looks just like that comes to Google one day. We all sit like it's a huge Conference room, probably 300 people come to watch him speak. He walks up to the podium and he's like so proud of his blog that has blown up. This is what we there to do. We're better listen to a motherfucker talk about his goddamn blog and the blog is called Stuff white people like.
Speaker 1:He is the writer of this blog and it's and it is a. The joke is supposed to be that it is poking fun of, or ironically Speaking to, things that white people life stuff like Patagonia vest, stuff like new balance shoes, stuff like different types of foods that are bland, and, of course, naturally Throughout this blog, as is always the case when white people think they're making jokes that are self-aware, which is 90% of the SNL experience. Of course, black people got to get smacked around throughout the entire experience. Cultural appropriation is one of the things named that white that. That is something. That stuff that white people like, like because, of course, right, that's that's supposed to be. The irony is it's like Look how funny and look how annoying. We are white people, but we're saying it about ourselves. So it's funny. Right, it's not how funny works, but I'll get to that.
Speaker 1:Snl was probably on that blog, even though I can't confirm or deny that it was, and If that blog still existed, it might be defunct. Now I expect that the movie American fiction would also be on that blog start with SNL. Snl is white funny and I was thinking about white funny yesterday and I'm. This is not. I Will sit in a room with people and watch SNL and laugh I will. I will sit in a room and watch a Jimmy Kimmel you know monologue and laugh sometimes. Or Seth Meyers, or. But these are White people funny things.
Speaker 1:White people funny. Starts at your chest and goes up like that's there that sort of humor and I'm labeling it white people humor. But not all white people like this. Like Rick, your Jervais is funny. Shit is all up and down in here, it's everywhere. It's like goes through your whole body. It accesses all parts of truth and lies and etc. Etc. But like fun.
Speaker 1:The funny and funny is that things are true and if you are not able to Access certain things that are true because they implicate you, that leaves off a whole lot of area for funny. There are a lot of white comics who cannot be deeply funny because you can't get all the way true, because every time you get all the way true, you end up talking about Really horrific things that white people have done. You don't have access to all of it. You can't both like. You can't really make too many slave jokes as a white person, and that leaves off a lot of room for funny, because that's where the truth is at.
Speaker 1:Snl is like McDonald's funny. It's just like. It's like, keep it up here, not too spooky. They try a lot of political sketches and, naturally, as we have gotten a million other Areas to access funny in our lives from Twitter, from Facebook, instagram, tick tock we have funny people abound. There's so much.
Speaker 1:I laugh so much harder at the meme of the, of the cat at the table with sunglasses on. I laugh so much harder at I've seen probably 50 versions of that meme. I laugh so much harder and more viscerally and deeply for my gut than I ever laugh at a fucking Seth Meyers monologue or an SNL sketch. And SNL has a ratings problem, as do most Legacy shows on Linear cable. That's what SNL is. It is 50 years old and it is looking to transition into the next 50 years of its, of its shit, and it's going to try to continue to spin out the same brand of Chest up white people funny, not accessing the whole deep layers of funniness.
Speaker 1:Funny To give us the next 50 years. And I know that because the names that are coming up for the job Are Seth Meyers, tina Fey, and this is how I know they don't give a damn about being funny. The third name that I've heard is Colin Joest. He is not fucking like guys. Can we just be real? He is not funny. He's not funny. Is he funny? Tell me if he's funny. If I'm trippin, no, but what I mean, tell me.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've never watched his stand up, but I don't think so no, I don't even mean his stand up.
Speaker 1:I just mean like, I mean we can update. I just mean he, it's just it's not there, like like hiring everybody from the Harvard lampoon or whatever you guys do at SNL, like that's not going to carry you into tiktok land. Okay, you don't know what. Do you know what you're up against? You're up against A world of actually funny people who are not afraid to make jokes about the real shit that's going on out here. You can't. You can't keep it cute and also compete with that for funny. It's just it's not gonna work. And I don't yes, morgan, I was gonna say do you have to be funny to do that?
Speaker 2:job, though, or do you just have to know funny to do what job to be the Next?
Speaker 1:Lorne Michaels.
Speaker 2:No, I think you have to know funny.
Speaker 1:But like Specifically, I think to be the next Lorne Michaels. You'll only need to know how to hire more. They're witty. Like they're witty people. They will not have you crying and pissing yourself in your seat like as they once did. Like there was a time where some of the funniest white people on earth were on that show and a few of the funniest black people on earth were on that show, and today that is no longer so. Like today, I think they are almost. I think that they would almost say out loud we have a crisis because our cast does not work outside of this. Our cast is not going off and getting movie franchises and TV shows that last season because they're just not funny enough, but I think it's because they are. They're living in a box of funny that no longer has those bounds.
Speaker 1:Like funny is funny is in my. When I go back to check my phone after this thing, I'll have gotten four memes texted to me that are funnier than anything I've seen on SNL in the last four. They're so not funny that they keep bringing Pete Davidson back. He's not funny. Like I'm sorry, I am angry now. I'm not even angry, I just feel like I'm not angry. I'm sorry, I am angry. Now I'm not even angry, I just feel conviction about this. Like I promise you, if you lined up the five funniest people on SNL right now and you gave me, like just quite literally, the five funniest people whose phone numbers, I have to go up against them because I would have access to more races, more genders, more life experiences, more areas of surface area. I want to go back to this. White people being self aware about whiteness and racism is not funny. That's not ironic, because you guys have been faking being unself aware about this the whole time, like you guys knew it was this all along. This is not a surprise to you. This is not new information to you that the irony would have been funny if you guys were truly ignorant about your racism like this. That's not funny, that's not enough to make it be funny, and that's that's what I want to talk about.
Speaker 1:American fiction next. Okay, I'm bringing it down to a better octave. Talk about American fiction which I've still not seen, which means which I give you a perfect person to talk about it, because what I actually want to talk about is forget the movies themselves for a second. Like let's just talk about the surface area around movies and art. Let's talk about the landscape. Like I said before on this show, I did not want to watch American fiction because the marketing for American fiction told me like sometimes we as consumers are simple if you tell me the movies not for me, great, I won't see it. Like. If you tell me, if your marketing is telling me this is a movie about stuff black people already know and have covered, but for us to teach white people about these things, I can skip that class. I don't, that's not for me.
Speaker 1:I said in the last episode of this thing sorry, my voice said in the last episode of this thing, I had to decide and and maintain over and over and over again that black magic, my first book, was going to be a book written to and for black people and that white people could come and come and cut their ear to it, but it was going to be written to other black people. White people and anybody else could come and cut their ear to it, but it was written to and for black people. So that was a decision that probably on some level limited the scope of market for that book. But I, that was a decision I made somewhere along the line. Maybe it was in the create, the creative of making this movie, maybe it was in the marketing of this movie. Maybe it was in the PR, maybe it was a conversation with the studio. But somewhere along along the lines someone decided we are going to try to make this movie when an Oscar, we are going to try to make this movie mass audience acceptable, which means interesting to white people. And so the marketing is going to tell that story. And so the marketing told me, if you guys go watch the trailer for this movie, you will not see a joke there that you haven't already heard over and over and over again made in your own circles, because it is so obvious.
Speaker 1:The marketing for this thing told me Chad, it's not for you and I am not hard headed in this way. I don't have to see a movie that's not for me like I, some people I know I'm rooting for everybody black. I know some of y'all feel that way I'm rooting is different than going and buying a ticket to me. Like if the movie is not for me, I'm still audience man. I'm not like. I'm not like a, not a martyr, I'm not a fucking, you know human sacrifice, like I don't have to go sit through two hours of a movie. That's not for me. Today I woke up and I found out that this movie had been nominated for several Oscars and I'm still processing what that means for me. I did not know that it was in Oscar nomination at all. I have talked to several, several black who have said to me that they saw the movie Morgan, included in this group, and not one of them is willing to like stand on saying Chad, I think you should see the movie Morgan, why not?
Speaker 2:well, I maybe would have until your little spiel and I was like nope, nevermind, don't see it well, what did you think about the movie? I liked it. I was entertained. I don't feel like it said anything that people didn't already know, but like, but yeah, I was entertained, I liked it why do you think it's nominated for an Oscar for several Oscars, including best picture?
Speaker 1:I don't know, why do you think?
Speaker 2:I thought Jeffrey Wright did a good job acting. I don't know. I can't get the green book thing out of my head that I sent you Morgan sent me a meme just before we started this show.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's to call it a meme, but it was a tweet Someone had tweeted. Please be serious, american fiction is like the green book, but written by a well-liked Twitter guy. Of course, I've also never seen the green book, so I can only say but. So much about this connection, but the connection I take from it is like, if I spend this much time knowing and living in and feeling and having conversations about this thing, that is so obvious, that is so clear to anybody paying attention, which is that black people who want a certain level of broader market success, success with white people, that there are certain slots that those people need to step into to fit there. There are certain ways those people need to fit comfortably for white people under their arm to get into those places. If I know that and it's so clear and so and I've known it since I was my parents started telling me that when I was little Like they're, like, if you want to have it on your terms, you got to build it. Like, if you want to have it in a way that makes you feel good, you got to build it and you got to scrape and claw and you got to do the job inch by inch by inch. That's what you're seeing now and I promise you it's uncomfortable. Like I promise you it is anxiety written. It is a uphill climb. It draws not only the scorn of other people but also your own people who are watching you do it and how you do it and like don't want to be a part of it until it's already popping. But if you want to take that other path, like, you got to be on the cover of Green Book looking slavy, like that's it Like.
Speaker 1:If you want to do this other thing, if you want to win the Oscar for best picture, you got to make them laugh. You got to make white people laugh. Whites, you like that. If you want to win the Oscar, you got to entertain whites. You got to make them feel good about whatever it is that you're saying. You know what the main feedback I've gotten about this movie is Damn, I went to see it at the Alamo Draft House.
Speaker 1:Damn, I went to see it at whatever other fancy, funky, you know urban theaters, where, in gentrified neighborhoods, and I wish I'd seen it somewhere else, because every time the white people in the room laughed. It made me feel uncomfortable Every time they laughed. It's something that I know was supposed to actually make them feel shame, guilt, learning they laughed. I don't have a stomach for that. Like I don't have a stomach to try to make something like that and I don't have a stomach to go and try to watch something like that without feeling pissed on the whole time. And so not that I was ever going to watch the Oscars, but like now I really can't watch the Oscars because every time this movie comes up and somebody goes on the stage and gives some extremely flat, basic ass speech and white people go hmm, like it's super fucking deep, or they laugh at something that's obvious or whatever I'm just going to keep feeling pissed on over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:I remember, like I remember watching Spike reconcile his feelings about being up against Green Book Whatever that was three, four, five years ago when he made Black Clansman. And I remember like how I felt watching Mahershala, who I think of as like one of the dopest Black actors working right now and one of the most dignified and one of the coolest, like naturally cool, without trying like squeeze himself into that, into that costume for that movie cover and feeling like damn, we always got to do some slavish shit to get an award. Fuck it, I guess, no awards. And of course my heart can't completely wrap around fuck it, no awards. That's not human Like, of course I still want awards, you know what I mean. Of course I still want money, but not like that man. So I ain't never going to see that movie. I just don't see how I can, unless one of you guys who I trust, will say Chad, just watch it, you'll love it.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I definitely can't say that, because I remember what it is you said. You said that it hits too close to home and I was like, oh yeah, probably.
Speaker 1:And that's even being too flat. It's not just that I know it hits too close to home, but I know like, get out, hit close to home. But I can just feel it from a million miles away that that movie is going to here's being more precise, it's supposed to hit close to home but I know that it fucking misses the notes. I just know it. I know it by who's in it. I know it by the jokes that I've seen on the marketing. I know it by the references that you all have made to it, Like y'all aren't, y'all are not being, you're not just being clear and just being like that movie was something you should go see. You guys are not standing on it the way that I think you would if it was, if it was fire. And then naturally it is up for best picture. It is the only movie made by a black person up for best picture. So very well, that goes on, stuff. White people like okay. So while we were away, Morgan broke her own rule and she backtracked into the previous segment with commentary.
Speaker 2:It's one o'clock, by the way, so we're going to.
Speaker 1:let's talk about it. Okay, Morgan, what did you say? And then Josh also said something insightful. So you, what did you say, Morgan?
Speaker 2:I said in relation to like stuff white people like uh, there's the two types of movies that I feel like there's either like the white savior movie that has someone like green book, or there's a movie like this, where I feel like you're more so led in on a conversation between black people that maybe you don't like aren't usually privy to, um, which I feel like happens in American fiction but is not anything that I feel like black people haven't already heard before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um. So yeah, like um, wanting to feel led in. And I which my reaction to that is it's uh, feels like kind of sometimes the way white people want to eat soul food as cuisine, but they want, like, they kind of want it like white people's soul food. Like they want it, like they want pies and thighs, you know what I mean. Like they don't want that real, like that real hot fire and your shit stuff that has me up at four in the morning every night, like they want like better and might be too spicy, not too spicy. Come on now, like you know, would be civilized. Like don't say the realest, realest shit. How about this? Don't say what Jeffrey Wright and Issa Rae would actually say to each other as themselves say this, you know, say this lukewarm shit. And then, josh, you said something that was insightful as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just, you know, when you were speaking, I was just thinking, like you know, is it even possible to? Well, first, does a movie even exist that has, like you know, well, just for lack of a better term, slavy, slavy stuff?
Speaker 3:in it that can actually that it would take. All the white people have liked but feel but has given what to go. White people have liked and absorbed the real emotions that whoever was making it hopefully someone black making it wanted them to feel and had this mass appeal. And if it doesn't exist, can it even exist?
Speaker 1:Cause I don't, I can't think of one and I I think the one that came to mind was like moonlight, that's what I was wrestling with in my head and I don't know. You know, only only a white person could know if they actually walk away from that sort of movie affected or if they walk away like man. That's crazy. What's going on over there? Like good thing I don't have to deal with any of that shit, like, and then kind of go on with their day Like I there's. I don't know.
Speaker 3:Maybe. Well, I'll tell you a story Like I've seen roots twice, right, my mom why maybe? Watch it? And then, probably like a year or six months later, when I was really young, a kid, I watched it. I don't know who decided to. You know, my upbringing is just like, yeah, it's like mostly white people and a sprinkling of black kids and a couple of Asian kids, and we watched someone. We watched roots, and I think it was definitely under the age of 10 and everybody in the room obviously was feeling away as a child. And I don't know, I don't, I can't, I have no idea if that affected them in a way that made them, you know, feel differently or or what. But that was the only movie I've ever watched amongst white people. That was a obviously the most slaviest you can watch, and they are and they were feeling there was no laughing going on the entire time.
Speaker 1:No, it's so. I mean it's just it's so different when it's I think it's so different when it's not your person, your body, like your image being reflected in the worst, worst conceivable moment. And I and it works the opposite way for me too Like I can watch I watched Boardwalk Empire, that's what I'm watching right now right, and it's Italians and Irish and Jews and Polish and you know all kind of like battling turf, battling over Atlantic City and the alcohol trade, basically, and it is quite gory. I mean like it is extremely violent. It's one of the more violent shows you will see and violence always takes a toll, like it always like fucks with me. It always like I feel it over time.
Speaker 1:I'm ready for the show to be over. I'm on the last episode. I'm like thank God. But I feel it differently when it's Michael K Williams and Jeffrey Wright on that same show, like taking shots at each other, shooting up each other's black entourage. It's like you, just I think that there's something human there and it's invented because we didn't have to make this race, didn't have to be a thing, but like it's invented that I now feel more connection to them than I do to a white person, but like it's there, now, let's, let's. Actually, that will transition well into this next story. So did you guys both watch the last dance on Netflix, the Michael Jordan documentary?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, most of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I don't know if I watched all of it, but I watched most of it.
Speaker 1:So the last dance was Michael Jordan telling the story of his last season on the Chicago Bulls, their last run to the championship, and also, like a bit, quite a bit, of his life story. His rise to this is review for everybody, because everybody in the fucking world watched this thing, but his rise to Michael Jordaness and the inner workings of the bulls and the NBA at that time and the things he had to overcome to get into his Michael Jordan slot, et cetera, et cetera and I thought it was an excellent documentary, while also knowing I mean, I thought it was so good I would watch it again. While also knowing, of course, that Michael Jordan's pin, so to speak, was all over it, like it was his telling of the Michael Jordan story and so, as the hero of said story and as the pin man, he was able to make people from that story look how he wanted them to. He and the and the and the documentarians, he and whoever were the autors behind it with him. One of the people who gets it the worst was a Shwebly sort of hobbit-esque white guy named Jerry Krause, who was the president and general manager of the Chicago Bulls when Michael Jordan played for that team and in the docu-series they really make him look like such a trollish, greedy, mean, like um. It steps right on the line of exposing him as a racist. Basically they make him look like just the most disgusting overseer of this team and particularly they show the power struggle that there was between Jerry Krause and Scotty Pippin over Scotty Pippin's contract. There's an image that is a little bit haunting. That's recounted, where Scotty Pippin's on the team bus after one of the games yelling and cursing at Jerry Krause, who's in the front of the bus, about this contract that he wants to get out of because he's outperform the contract. And Michael Jordan portrays himself in his own shit as a bully to Jerry Krause, who was someone, as it seems in the story, that all the players hated because he was the face of white men owning and capitalizing on these extraordinarily talented black men and trapping them contractually underneath their market value. It was an excellent little recount by me just now. It was really good.
Speaker 1:Recently the Chicago Bulls and, by the way, I'll get to my opinion. Let me just say what happened. The Chicago Bulls did some sort of ceremony at one of their home games where they were honoring I think it was the Chicago Bulls Ring of Honor. They were bringing people into their Ring of Honor or whatever their version of that is, and one of the people that they honored during that thing was the late Jerry Krause, and his widow went up to, I guess, accept the award for him or the honor, and the fans booed the shit out of her, they reined down booze from the arena over her and there was in response what I saw was specifically by a lot of white sports journalists. There was a response of a little bit of like a slapping on the wrist of the Chicago Bulls fans for how inappropriate, how rude, how mean, how bullying to boo this woman for going to accept this award for her late husband, jerry Krause.
Speaker 1:Tim McMahon, who I have mentioned before, who was the guy who I said wrote about John Morant in a way that I found to be dehumanizing Tim McMahon is back, such a douchebag. He's back and he says Michael Jordan is a bully. He's a petty bully. He's arguably the greatest player of all time, but he's a petty bully and the fans followed his lead. That was his understanding of this thing that happened. I think it conveniently misses an important point, and that point I got to pull this thing up to read the full segment of it. You have it. I'm going to read it. I got it.
Speaker 1:I think that point is well made in this anecdote from David Halberstam's book Playing for Keeps. It says somewhere in this time, krause made the first of what were to be two fateful mistakes in dealing with Jordan, mistakes that created a fault line, at first rather marginal, but later far more important. In a conversation with Jordan, he rebuffed one of Jordan's pleas to play and said that he and Jerry Ryan's dwarf would make the decision because Jordan was their property. It was a colossally stupid thing to say about any player, particularly a black one, and it was a statement that Michael Jordan never forgot and never forgave. It was the beginning of a split between star player and the head of the organization that became over the years increasingly bitter and that never healed Tim McMahon because he is A white boy from Texas, I believe.
Speaker 1:I think is missing what is most important here, which is that this was a beef between Michael Jordan and Jerry Krause that was much deeper than whatever we think of when we think about the relationship between labor and management. A labor management beef between a black person and a white person goes always so much deeper than just I'm mad because I work for you and you're not giving me what I want. It is always, I believe to be like the way that we even get to this place where I, michael Jordan, one of one talent of all time, and you, jerry Krause, even get to sit across from me in a meeting or get to talk to me at all or get to know me, is that, in and of itself, is rooted in slavery, like that, in and of itself, is rooted in anti-blackness and white supremacy. Jerry Krause shouldn't even be in the building with somebody as talented as Michael Jordan, dennis Rodman, scottie Pippin. What do the two have to do with each other? How can he even be someone that Michael Jordan has to confront to talk about a contract, if not for the advantages given to Jerry Krause year over year, century over century, that start with slavery?
Speaker 1:This is it's like I know so badly what Zach Lowe, bill Simmons, the next white guy, the next white guy, the next white guy that write and talk about sports. I know so badly that because you guys just want your sports, you just want all that other shit to disappear and you just want it to be guys. It's just about basketball. It is a coincidence that 85% of the people who run the teams own the teams, speak on the teams, write about the teams, podcast on the teams. It is just a coincidence that all those people are white and the demographics of the teams are the opposite of that. They are the flip side of that. They're the inverse of that.
Speaker 1:I know you guys want it to just wash away into the ocean, but like it's not over for Michael Jordan, this person called Michael Jordan he was this dude didn't even own the team. He was the fucking general manager and told and had this guy? This guy looking up at Michael Jordan's fucking naval had the gall to tell him he was his property. And now, 30 years later, he goes to be honored, which is bullshit, or his wife goes out there to go honor him and they're booing the piss out of him because they love Michael Jordan. They love Michael Jordan and they fucking hate him. And Tim McMahon is riding for Jerry Krause. You guys want it to be over, but it's not. It's not over until it's fucking over. Like you don't decide when, just in general, like the beef isn't over until both people say beef is over, that's beef. Okay, that's beef.
Speaker 1:Um, I remember I ran into a dude. I went to college with a dude. I was good with 95% of the guys I went to school with, but there were a couple guys who just like they just rub you the wrong way. I can you can see that there's a phony in there and I can never. I'm like. I told you, I'm like Penny. If somebody in the room is being weird, I can't stop noticing them and at a certain point I can't stop going over to sniff their ass. And there's one guy and he was a fucking weird all the whole time. He was always kind of like. He was always trying to like step on me and make me feel weird or whatever, whatever.
Speaker 1:And then a couple years later I come back from homecoming, I run into this dude in the club and he wants to give me a big dap and a hug and I'm like. I'm just like. I think don't touch me, because you don't get to just decide when beef starts and when it's over. Like you, it's not over until it's over. It's not over until both people say that it's over, and Michael Jordan didn't say it's over.
Speaker 1:So I don't care if it's you or your widow or your son, whoever comes up here to accept the award on behalf of Jerry Krauss, the guy who said I am his property, the fucking general manager, not even the owner.
Speaker 1:Like I can't, even, I can't even imagine. Can you guys think about this sort of mind fuck of self control, that it is to be a black person, to be Michael Jordan? Okay, six foot six, one of one athlete, incredible hand, eye coordination, like billionaire or, at that time, probably close to a hundred million, air off contracts and sponsorships, and you have this little guy walk up to you, look up at you and tell you he's your, you are his property in the 1990s. Okay, so you're like 1800s and like, and you don't smack him through the floorboards of that arena, that is, that's more impressive than anything I ever saw Michael Jordan do on a basketball court, and that is Tim McMahon. If you don't get it why Michael Jordan still feels that way, you're just a fucking asshole, like that, I mean, and it's on purpose. Like, oh, you're so gross, tim McMahon. Okay, I feel clear. Um, we got 12 minutes left.
Speaker 3:By the way, I don't love the fans either.
Speaker 1:I don't love the fans either. I mean because the fans will turn on Michael Jordan in a second.
Speaker 3:And I saying that just for that reason too. I'm just like they don't really love Mike.
Speaker 1:No, and I did. I mean, it's not to me, it's not even about the fans, but it's like we're not in the protecting Jerry Krause, like we can't be in protection mode over Jerry Krause of all of all people and like, yeah, I know it's a little bit like you married him, like you got to live with the way that people see him. You've had to live with that since you've been married. Okay, um, couple other things. We're just going to do some sports notes real quick. Kevin Durant wants to know why he shouldn't be in the goat discussion. That's real. That's a real headline. I mean, people are laughing already just off of the headline. Why shouldn't I be in that? What haven't I done? Um, okay, it would be too easy to just like do a dunk on Kevin Durant segment right here. That's not, that's not even interesting. What I'm going to do is something more along the lines of okay, oh God, well, I got to do it. This is how.
Speaker 3:I feel oh.
Speaker 1:God, Whatever you say, oh God that scares me.
Speaker 1:Listen, I told you guys that, like, what Michael Jordan was the best at was basketball. Like he was also amazing at storytelling by way of marketing movies. You know the Michael Jordan aura, the brand. He was a great businessman, but what he was best at was basketball. What LeBron James is best at is telling the story of LeBron James being great at basketball. I said that before. That is the millennial gift that we have now is not actually being great at a discipline or craft, but at being great at telling the story of how great we are at that thing. I'm way better at this than screenwriting. That's an example of what I'm talking about, but I'm really good at other forms of writing.
Speaker 1:Kevin Durant is taking a cue from LeBron James here. Now he's taking a cue from LeBron Shaq, Charles Barkley, dreymont Green. The cue is the basketball player no longer needs the journalist to preserve their legacy. The basketball player preserves their legacy on their own, by way of microphones. The basketball player bring. Now that Kevin Durant has said this, Some people conceivably will actually have a conversation about whether or not Kevin Durant is the goat, even though the idea of that is laughable, even though In every way, his star doesn't compare to the people who we actually should be having conversations about being the goat, and we shouldn't even really be having those conversations, but he now has entered his name into that thing. I'm like I should come up here on here and be like why shouldn't I win Best Picture? You know what I'm saying? Why am I not on the Hollywood Walk of Fame? Because what have you? No, that's not the point. That's not the point. The point is, more importantly and I'm going to continue to take cues from other people who are good at this I just bought a book called Traffic.
Speaker 1:It's by a guy named Ben fuck, I can't remember his last name, but he founded Buzzfeed and it is about the founding and the start of it just came out last year. It's about two gigantic media. Yes, ben Smith. Why is that so funny, morgan? Because it was so easy. I'm sorry, ben Smith, okay, he's the founder of Buzzfeed and I went to Greenlight Books yesterday.
Speaker 1:I was doing a little nostalgia trip around Fort Green because I wanted to go back to where I used to go, buy books about screenwriting and entrepreneurialism and the four-hour week and all that good to great and all that stuff. I'm back in that sort of mode. I'm learning how to build a brand and I'm learning how to market and I'm learning how to talk to an audience and I'm learning how to drive traffic to the places I wanted to go. So I bought this book.
Speaker 1:I was looking all over this bookstore I was like, ah, there's no books for me. I don't know what I want. I don't want any of this stuff. Like nothing's perfect here and it's in there for an hour and I was like God, none of these books are the ones that I need. To speak to me. And I was just about to walk out and there was a book, a big blue book, called Traffic, pointing at Me and the subtitle says something like you know, the 20-year history of the attention economy and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, ah, that's perfect.
Speaker 1:So why did I bring that up? Oh, because Kevin Durant, who is still excellent, obviously, but like he sees the twilight of his career ahead of him and he now needs to do the legacy. It's no longer enough to just be great. It's not. It is no longer enough to just be excellent at your discipline, because the storytelling faculties are breaking down. Sports Illustrated just fired a bunch of people because the company that was licensing. Sports Illustrated didn't pay their bills, and so now it's returning an ownership to some holding company, and who knows what they'll do with it. Gq and who just merged. And Pitchfork just merged because it's shrinking the storytelling economy as far as brands and publications, is shrinking because it's distributing where the storyteller's now. So if Kevin Durant wants to be thought of as a goat, he has to tell us that he's a goat and he has to tell us why. And so I have to continue to tell people what I am and what to call me, and so do you if you want them to know. All right, last one, yes, morgan.
Speaker 2:By the way, I just want to. I'm going to allow us to backtrack one more time, because Shannon said in the comments Chad. Does it impact your opinion at all to know that American fiction is based on a novel by a very talented black novelist, persephial Everett, even though of course it still has to fit into a certain very specific mold to get white prestige attention?
Speaker 1:Well, I knew that because I saw I've learned a little bit about the movie from podcasts and stuff. Didn't know the author's name, but I knew it had been adapted. I also saw that it's nominated for best adapted screenplay. Does it actually change my opinion? No, how is knowing how the sausage got made supposed to change my opinion? That the marketing of this movie and the reception of this movie and the response to the movie is all telling me that this was a movie. This was not a movie made for black people where white people could come and cup their ear to it. It was the opposite. Okay, last thing Snoop Dogg declined $100 million from only fans.
Speaker 2:I wonder why.
Speaker 1:I don't know why he would do that.
Speaker 2:They wanted him to show hole. Do what Like show his dick, oh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was getting ready so I was like you're missing there. They wanted him to show the dog, you know, oh, for a hundred million.
Speaker 1:Is that a?
Speaker 2:term yeah what, okay, what in relation to acting Like never mind, okay, whatever.
Speaker 1:I mean, okay, well, that makes a lot more sense why he would say no to that. Like what? Where's the upside for Snoop Dogg on showing his D for a hundred million dollars?
Speaker 2:The a hundred million dollars I would imagine.
Speaker 1:If it were a good deal for him, then they would have offered more. They wouldn't offer him a deal that was bad for them. I guess that hundred million dollars is worth more in traffic to them than it is to him would be my guess. Traffic and branding, and wow, snoop Dogg, and um no, it feels kind of racist too, I'm not gonna lie, feels pretty racist, I don't know. They didn't offer a white boy a hundred million dollars to see his dick. This is true, okay, um, all right, well, this has been nothing but anarchy. And we will be in Washington DC February 8th, 7 o'clock at Shanklin Hall. Go get your tickets now. They will run out and I will not help anybody at the door, because I'm not gonna make a habit of doing that, because we're gonna do more stops and I don't. I just, I just can't do it. I just can't do it. So go buy your tickets. Man, buy your tickets, show up, have a good time with us. We're gonna do the show in your face, that's it. That's it.
