Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
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Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #83 Chad has a "Man Cold", Joel Embiid & Availability, Issa Rae's TIME Cover, and Marketing Ideas
Battling through sniffles and a cough, Chad pushes through his man cold to discuss Black History Month, Joel Embiid and the importance of availability, Issa Rae's new TIME cover story, and then Morgan pitches Chad marketing ideas.
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
Alright, welcome to Nothing but Anarchy. I am Chad Sanders. I'm sitting down today because, Morgan, why are you laughing already?
Speaker 2:Because this is like the epitome of like man being sick and saying oh, why do people keep saying that to me?
Speaker 1:Yes, I've been accused of having a man cold, which I guess is when a man has cold. Why can't men be sick?
Speaker 2:Because when men are sick, they're like it's the end of the world.
Speaker 1:Have I even been acting like it's the end of the world? Okay, so alright. So thank you for saying that, morgan. That gives me something to say here. We're going to see how this goes.
Speaker 1:I'm sick. I know that because I'm a man, I'm not supposed to or allowed to be sick, but I am indeed sick. I am at. I told my sister. She chatted and asked how I'm feeling. I said I'm at about 74%.
Speaker 1:I have spent the last two and a half days laying around the house and also having to take Penny on walks for an hour every day, and being sick sucks. Now I feel self-conscious about talking about being sick because I have been accused of having a man cold, but being sick sucks. It's really depressing. It feels like you can't do the things you're supposed to do and people are asking you for stuff and you just can't lean in the way that you usually do. That's how I feel. So you can probably actually hear that my voice is different, but we're doing this show because we didn't do the show on Tuesday. We have our live show a week from today, by which I time I expect to be fully recovered, but this is a game of volume in a lot of ways Like this media is that Media is a game of volume. Like everybody, most people probably have the wherewithal to make three entertaining-ish episodes of a podcast, or to make one really strong TV pilot or to write 15 pages of a good book. But this thing is about like how much volume you can produce of something that is of a solid quality. And so I got to come sit my ass in this chair on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I can't miss a bunch of days like I did on Tuesday, I think. Hopefully that was maybe only my first sick day that I have missed for this process. Yeah, so that was my first sick day since we started almost a year ago in April, about 10 months ago. So that is a segue for me to Joel and Bede. So there's a lot of conversation right now about Joel and Bede, who has come very close to missing already the NBA's threshold for how many games an NBA star or an NBA player can miss and still be eligible for the big awards at the end of the season, like MVP. Like all NBA, that also affects their money. They have a lot of incentives in these player contracts and also in upcoming negotiations that are tied to whether or not they have made these big, whether or not they've won these big awards MVP, all star, all NBA, etc.
Speaker 1:Joel and Bede, who is probably and still remains the odds on favorite to win the MVP, even though he might have now fallen behind Nicola Jokic and Shay Gildris, alexander he is a guy who is always injured, like that is his MO. When he's on the court, he's dominant. He had 70 points in a game a week and a half ago. He's one of the best defenders in the NBA. He's absolutely one of the best offensive weapons in the NBA. He is seven foot two. He has guard skills. He has big man skills. He can do everything, um, but he's not at work that much.
Speaker 1:And this rule that the best players have to play 65 games in order to be eligible for the big awards and for the big money Um, that role only just came into effect this in this season. This is the first season where it matters, and so Joel and Bede is the first superstar who will be in question this season as to whether or not he'll hit that threshold. There will be others who will also probably come close to or miss that threshold, like Tyrese Halliburton, who's already missed, I think, 15 games a season, but Joel and Bede is the big one that we're talking about because he's the most. He won the MVP last year. He missed a playoff game. He has been. It has been a part of his MO to miss playoff games or to be injured in the playoffs and underperform. And so there's debate over whether or not the rule is a solid rule and whether or not this is a rule that's going to have a negative, negative consequences on the players as to whether or not guys show up and try to play injured and do injured and do more damage to themselves.
Speaker 1:Um, how this relates to what is going on with me, jalen Rose, who used to be on the SPN and who is now doing his own podcast thing and who is seldom heard from now that he's off the SPN platform. He used to always say availability is the most important ability. I agree with that. I think that Joel and Bede not being available to his team makes him a less valuable player than guys who were either even in like the rankings of like the 10 to 12th best players in the league who are available to their teams. Joel and Bede missed his first two entire NBA seasons. He has. Joel and Bede has never played 70 games in an NBA season.
Speaker 1:All of those are reasons why I think he should be made ineligible for the most important words at the end of the season. I think it's absurd for somebody to be considered the most valuable player in the NBA if he is not available to his team for one quarter of their games in said season. I think that guys who play every night, I think that guys, I think even guys like who I generally don't celebrate, like LeBron who make themselves available to their teams almost every night, should be considered much more valuable than somebody like Joel and Bede who is constantly putting the framework of the team and their dynamic altogether at risk because you don't know when he's going to be there and you don't know when he's not going to be there. It's a big. It makes such a difference to a team dynamic, any team dynamic basketball corporate team of executives. This team like a production team. It makes such a big difference to everybody involved if you don't know if the person who everything revolves around is going to be in the seat or not, and so I think it's really important that I have my ass in my seat and do my job. Okay, that was sports.
Speaker 1:So it's Black History Month. I just said that because it's here on the, it's written on the docket. I'm like, okay, it's Black History Month. Well, what does that mean to me? So there's a couple of things we're going to get to today. One is that there is a Time Magazine cover with Issa Rae on the cover. There's a Time Magazine, I guess, issue that has just dropped digitally, with Issa Rae on the cover, and she's talking about how negligent Hollywood is being right now with regards to producing and funding black content, or content, I guess, just shows, tv shows, movies made by and featuring people who are not white. Basically, I read it in an Uber on the way here today and this is what it signaled for me. This is what it reminded me of A few years ago 2020, 2021,.
Speaker 1:I was just about to start promoting my first book, black Magic, and George Floyd was killed in 2020. In the lead up to that time. I didn't know this was a part of the book promotion process, but my agent and my editor they encouraged me to write something about what was going on in our country surrounding blackness and civil rights. I don't know if civil rights is right, but the killing of black people and black people responding to those murders, the protests, the marching, what some people were calling rioting, et cetera, et cetera. So I wrote and I wrote, and I wrote a bunch of pieces leading up to my book coming out. One was in the New York Times, one went in Fortune and one went in Time Magazine.
Speaker 1:And the piece that I wrote for Time Magazine was about the window the window for black projects, the window for black money, the window for black green lights. Basically, I forgot exactly what verbiage I used to describe this thing, but I remember, just before my book came out, one of my friends, mom's, called me and she said she was congratulating me on seizing this moment. And she said to me you know, get as much done. In so many words, get as much done as you can right now, while this window is open, because these windows open and close on a cycle. You know, every 10, 15 years there's a moment where black people, black projects like art, are supported because there's an inflection point in society and in culture and there's a guilt that's there. And that's the moment where everybody's got to rush through and get what you can get. And I wrote about that for Time Magazine and I wrote about sort of being conscious of this, like window that was open for me to enter as creator, as writer, as creative, and I didn't know, like I had some intuition, some feeling that indeed that would be the case, that this thing would open and then shut. But I had never been through one of those cycles before, so I couldn't say, like I didn't know exactly what it looked like. I'm watching what it looks like right now. So that type of window opening and closing for black creators has a lot to do with the economic cycles that are happening around us in general. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:The reason what Issa Reyes is talking about in this timepiece is these corporations, these studios, put so much lip service to the idea of we're going to support black content, we're going to support black writing, we're going to support black. We're going to support I'm on drugs, guys. I've had Nyquil. We're going to support black auteurs, not Nyquil. Dayquil is what I had. I'm on drugs. I have been on drugs in here before Dayquil. I have. I've said that. I remember saying that. That's true. But what, issa Reyes? I'm going to move slowly, guys. My brain is foggy. Okay, I'm trying. It's been, guys. Being sick is so ass. You can't do anything, you can't really eat the things that make you feel good. I can't write like this. I had to do a one hour kind of recorded conversation for my love project yesterday and I'm just so foggy and so flimsy and pathetic. Anyway, man cold, it's a man cold. So it's not COVID, though it's a COVID test. What am I saying? I'm saying what Issa Reyes is saying in this piece.
Speaker 1:I'm going to summarize this piece. He says you can read it if you want to. It's in Time Magazine, it's not very long. And also it occurs to me now like oh, this came out today because this is the beginning of Black History Month. So black person on the cover, great, that's part of the window. Black stuff on cycle, like Morgan is having visibility into this. Like people want to pay me to come talk it or pay or not pay me to come talk it, stuff right now because it's Black History Month. So they're like, who do we know that is black, that can talk, and they go out seeking us and they find us and then we go do the thing because, like what are you going to do? Not do the thing, but we don't do the thing for free, morgan, right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Okay, we'll come back to that. Issa Reyes is saying in this piece. I'm going to summarize she's saying all the lip service that was paid to the amplification of black art in Hollywood was flimsy, it was not real. Because she's watching her own projects get canceled, get axed left and right at HBO and otherwise and because that's happening to other people. She's also saying the executives and I had a friend I think I mentioned to you all, my friend Garth, said this to me years ago, like probably seven, eight years ago.
Speaker 1:At this point he said now that there's money flowing into Hollywood at a different clip, you're gonna see money people start taking over the jobs that used to be run by creative people in Hollywood. You're gonna see executives start becoming ex-McKenzie consultants and Stanford Business School graduates and people who generally would have gone into hedge funds and financial management and things like that they're gonna start going into Hollywood because it's just money management, they're just managing flows of money. So Issa Rae is saying the executives are those people now. They're not creative, they're not interesting, they're not curious. I mean I've been saying that basically every other episode for 10 months but actually everything Issa Rae says in this piece is the same stuff.
Speaker 2:I've been saying.
Speaker 1:I mean I think it's good that Issa has a loud voice so she can amplify some of these messages. She has a big voice and I would say everything she's saying is corroborated by what I and other people who work in this industry have been saying for a long time. So the second thing is the money people are taking over and the creative people are being pushed to the wayside, and you can see that we get so excited when an actually good or interesting show comes out. Everybody's talking about it because it's rare, because most of the stuff that is coming out is sludge, because it's going through a spreadsheet, it's not going through like an inspired point of view. The third thing she's saying, which is an interesting juxtaposition to the first two things, is I'm finding that a lot of these pieces that feature Issa recently they're almost the same piece over and over. As I see them, they have kind of the same cadence. It's like here's Issa Rae's backstory, which we all know by now. How many times can somebody tell us it started on YouTube with Awkward Black Girl. We know that, thank you. Then it talks about sort of this current status of Hollywood and how it is devaluing black art and how her own shows have been canceled. Then there's a landing point which is about Issa Rae's entrepreneurialism and she does well to make sure that that is featured in every single story is that Issa Rae is a mogul. Now Issa Rae is more than a TV producer, a writer, an actor talent. She is a mogul and it counts off her various businesses and it talks about the interconnectedness of her company and her brother is her CFO and her Montrell, who went to Morehouse I think it's pronounced Montrell he runs content at her company and it's a family affair, but it's a business. It's a business. This is a mogul here, and so I think what I take from this that's the third part is that it always announces Issa as like the mogul.
Speaker 1:What I take from this is twofold. One, this piece talks a lot about and often these pieces do they really center Issa's blackness and the struggle of a black creator, even as powerful as Issa, to have the impact she wants to have in a Hollywood that's so white and that loves whiteness so much at the expense of other races. As much as that is an important message, boy, would I love to read a feature on Issa that is really just about, and also I've had this opportunity to be the one to feature Issa in this way, and maybe I also didn't do it, but boy would I love to just read a feature on Issa that's just about creativity and business and doesn't have to be centered around black struggle every single time, because the Issa Rey story, I think, is, moralities aside, however you see this person, it is the story of the digital creator who becomes an independent studio, which is the model that so many of us, I think, are trying to follow. And the second thing which is related to that, that I take from something like this is the conflict I can, as I I'm a writer, guys like I'm a creative person so sometimes I be seeing something that's not there. But when I look at that piece, scroll, scroll, scroll there's an image of Issa standing in front of, like this big it's either red or orange piece of art and it's a power image. You know it's like she's standing there. She has a very stoic, slash, stern look on her face and I believe the image is meant to say like power. This is a powerful person. When I see images of people like that power power in this country in a time magazine feature is connected to capitalism. In my point, in my opinion. I see mogul, that's what it's tell.
Speaker 1:The piece is telling me mogul, it's telling me in words, it's telling me in imagery and there's a there's a bit sort of, there's a bit of gobbledygook. Writing towards the end sorry to whoever the writer is, but like and it's trying to say something about Issa Rea is aware of how her business is both impacting the gentrification like amp, like creating more gentrification in the part of Englewood that her business is in or just outside of Englewood, but also how she's fighting back against it. And I was, like I tried to like read the sentence a few times, feels like wait, what the fuck are you trying to say? Like she is causing gentrification, she's fighting back against gentrification, she's aware of how she is affecting gentrification here. Like, what are you saying exactly?
Speaker 1:And it felt like the type of gobbledygook that, like a PR person asks to be added to a piece to protect the image of the person who is featured here, to say like don't worry, like yes, we know we're creating this big conglomeration and we're a big, huge business now, but we are aware of the effects that we're having on our own people and on the society around us. And now I'm doing gobbledygook because I'm just gonna say the thing right, because, like I'm super not allowed to say the thing and so I will say it anyway which is, like she is a mogul now and she she is big now in this, in this story, it talks about, like how several different pieces and tentacles of her operation were all a part of the Rapship production, which means many. She was being paid through many different invoices in coming to the Issa Rae Empire, and I don't think that there's anything intrinsically wrong with that, but I do think that that Capitalism can put a person at odds with like whatever is their sort of moral compass, like whatever is there, like it's difficult to be both capitalist and savior at the same time, and I'm and it's not her job to be like either one of those. But like that is the tension that people walk into once they achieve the status of Moguladum. And so the part that I take away from all this as I look at that image is I'm going to be curious interest. This is someone I have admired for a really long time, so I'm going to be paying really close attention to how she navigates that specific tension in this next era of the Issa sphere.
Speaker 1:There's one more thing I want to say about this, this window, because this is what I think. This is what it looks like when a window is closing Temporarily, because I think the window opens again. This is, issa aside. What it looks like is when the economy gets bad and these companies have to. They have to pay back their investors, and I'm talking about the studios, the stuff that they don't value, both the studios themselves and the investors. That's what get axed first, that's what gets chopped off first.
Speaker 1:And value? I think people have a very basic understanding of what value is to people. Some people think just cash is value, like some people think those investors just want their money back. That's all they care about, and that's not always so. Whiteness is of a high value in this country, which is to say, if you put rap shit or Some other black show next to another white show that seem to have similarly sized audiences, similarly sized at similar, similar economics, similarly sized, you know, prestige, value, etc. Whiteness is the value that those investors will oftentimes want like to retain and blackness is the value that Like to retain. And blackness is devalued in a way that gets it clipped and that's like pretty basic.
Speaker 1:I know that's a pretty basic concept that we all have some awareness of, but it has huge ramifications when you're looking at an industry where Black writers get hired to write on black shows and white writers get hired to write on white shows. If there's 90,000 billion white shows and only 17 black shows, that just means like fewer jobs for us, fewer paychecks for us, fewer pensions for us, less health insurance through the writer's guild for us. Like that has real ramifications. It's a small industry, so who really cares? But like I think it's worth saying. There's one more thing that I want to say, but I have to save it. I gotta wait until I have my full health to like spit it out, because it's. I gotta be really precise about it, but it regards Hollywood Negroes, so I'll save that. That'll be a good tease. Maybe I'll do it at the live show, because it's something that spike spike Lee told me about Hollywood Negroes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've intrigued, I got to wait.
Speaker 1:I think I'm gonna say it at the lot, that'll be my tease for the live show. I'm gonna I don't feel super comfortable saying it on a recorded in a recorded vessel, but Say at the live show because Hollywood Negroes are different, man, um, I'm sick. Guys, I just gotta keep saying that I'm sick. All right, marketing has obviously been on my mind. It's been a big. This is a. This is a marketing year for me. I'm learning about marketing. I have a book coming out at the top of next year, if not sooner, and I'm trying to understand how I can make marketing work for me in a way that feels Natural to me, in a way that feels effective but doesn't make me feel gross, doesn't make me feel like I'm straining. I hate the feeling of straining. I feel like if you're straining, you are selling yourself as something that you're not and then you're not gonna be able to Hold on to that. You're not gonna be able to keep that up. Morgan sent me a couple days ago oh, I forgot. Oh, my god.
Speaker 2:We're gonna come back to it.
Speaker 1:I forgot to recap our yeah let's do it now. Let's do it now, we'll come. We're all right. We're coming back to the marketing thing. But, um Okay, morgan and I went on a field trip on Saturday. Was that Saturday morning?
Speaker 2:Saturday.
Speaker 1:We went to Jasmine Ellis Cooper's baby shower, who has been a guest on this show, jobs Ellis Cooper, who is of summer house, summer house, martha's vineyard fame, and there's a couple, but I'm actually wearing the same shirt that I wore yeah, I.
Speaker 1:Was just like I don't know. I like the shirt and I was like I didn't get a chance to wear on the show. Guys, I really have to like scrape the barrel to have outfits for this show. Like it's a lot. This is so much time on camera I don't have enough clothes for this, but anyway. So, morgan, I went on a field trip. We went to the baby shower. There were shout out to Jasmine. She's such a delightful person. She also was a great emcee of her own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was a good host.
Speaker 1:She was um, so here's. Here's what happened. The baby shower had a dress code that Quite, literally until like an hour before the baby shower, morgan and I were still texting each other like what's the? What are the colors? Again like, and the colors were required were beige. Is that right? Beige?
Speaker 2:well, no, okay so it was confusing. On the invite it said creams and nudes Okay, but on the text blast it said beige and creams Okay, but you, I realized I didn't get it because of your number my number change, yeah, so you were like no, it's this, so yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So I went to a thrift store in my neighborhood. I walked a thrift store with penny and got a, got a new shirt to wear to this thing and I wore these giraffe looking pants that I wore to our our launch party and we got to the place. The place was in financial district. It was in a very, very tall, swanky building. It was at the roof upset, upset building. It had like floor to ceiling windows on every side of the of the room and Definitely one of those rooms from out speak for myself first definitely one of those rooms where you walk in and it's like I, when I walk into a. It was an event, is that fair to say?
Speaker 1:like there were cameras, there was a step and repeat, what yes, the thing that we took pictures on that was oh yeah, oh, and there was a. Camera's are what a photographer holds. I got it. Okay, wait, where were you?
Speaker 2:Okay, that was a step and repeat. It was like a really cute like stage. Okay, yeah, when I think seven repeat, I think like the vinyl, like you just think of like a lot of your uglier thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay it was like tasteful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was tasteful, but none Nevertheless like okay, Well, I'll speak for myself. I so maybe I'm doing my head about things like this sometimes, but like Jasmine is a TV star and I, you know, we talked about, when Jasmine was here, that she had sold the rights to her pregnancy photos and she also said that she had sold the rights to the photos for this thing. So like I kind of knew or I had a sense we were walking into like an event. An event and it was a nice event, Like it was. There was a violinist who had, like her violin was mic'd, so it was like playing from the speakers.
Speaker 2:But she was playing like modern music.
Speaker 1:She was playing like over top of modern hip hop R&B, some like 90s R&B and stuff like that, and I would say they were about what would you say? Maybe 50 people in that room, 50 mostly black folks in cream colored outfits and things like that. I think that the highlight of the event for me was we played a game where where they gave us a card and there were like nine different baby items, baby products, listed. Yes, maura, you remember this and your. The game was that you had to guess the prices of all nine of these baby products, like diapers, bottles, I don't know baby wipes, stuff like that and then you would add up the total of all these products together and whoever got closest to the actual total one.
Speaker 1:So so I had I put mine down, I added them together. Mine came out to like $90. The dude sitting next to mine, he wrote his down. He wrote his down and this total came out to like I don't know, $150. The final total, the winning total, was like I want to say it was like $130 or something like that. And the producer of this show, morgan, on her card, the total of all the baby products that she wrote down was $595.
Speaker 2:Can I defend myself?
Speaker 1:Please do yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't have any friends with kids Okay, I don't even have like like all of my family lives in LA, like I have young cousins, but I don't I'm not a part of like their shopping expenses, and also I feel like if I had been shopping at like Cretan Barrel or like Whole Foods or Erwan or a very bougie like shopping place, that could have been accurate. So really it's all about perspective.
Speaker 1:It's all about socioeconomic status. Yes, okay, well done. That was your defense, okay. So, yeah, we went to the baby shower and we were. We did anarchy at the baby shower, okay, what else did I think about that day?
Speaker 2:Well, do you how you like. Freaking left me. What'd I do To?
Speaker 1:my own, I didn't. Morgan tried to text me before this thing and asked me to be the scoper of the baby shower.
Speaker 3:She asked me Was Chad, the only one you knew there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she asked me you wanted me to be there first you knew like a couple other people there.
Speaker 2:I knew a couple, I knew none. Okay, so I go. Okay, chad, you get there first, I'll get there like right after you and you could like scope it out. And he goes I'm not a scoper, we'll get there at the same time. I get there at the time we had agreed to get there and Chad doesn't even text me. He sends me his Uber route of like drag Chad's ride, and he wasn't arriving for another 15 minutes after I had gotten there.
Speaker 1:So you went in Bravely yeah.
Speaker 2:I went in.
Speaker 1:You did great.
Speaker 2:You're so sociable though.
Speaker 1:You're such a people person. How did it go when you walked in?
Speaker 2:It was fun, it was. It's weird when you know you walk into a room, you don't know where to look because you don't know anyone there. So I walked straight to like my seat, to like put my bag down and then, in all her glory, like I saw Jasmine the one person that I knew and I like be lined right for her and she, being a great hostess, was like let me introduce you to people, and then see, that's what's up.
Speaker 3:I like when people do that, when they have the awareness to know that, like you're probably not going to know a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And she made a friend, you made a friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Kind of Okay, all right. So, morgan, how could you think diapers could cost like $70?
Speaker 2:I don't, and, shannon, thank you. In the chat was like parents do be complaining about how expensive kids are. They do, so I assumed like that every target trip was $600. Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, let's get back to the marketing. So there's an artist allegedly named Charlie XCX. She tells me and Charlie XCX recently posted on her Instagram marketing ideas that she has been given by. Who gave her these marketing ideas?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. She says swipe for some marketing ideas. I was sent last week. Okay so she doesn't specify who.
Speaker 1:But these are not a far cry from marketing like marketing schemes that I have seen people execute, and these are not a far cry from the things that people pitch you to do for marketing. So I'm going to read you before we're going to do a segment called Morgan pitches Chad marketing ideas, which which the last thing we did like this was Morgan pitches Chad love project name ideas and from which I remember specifically let's be termites together as the shining star. But here are some marketing ideas that have been pitched to Charlie. Charlie gets her nipples pierced at Claire's. That's the first one, that's the top of the list. Charlie crashes drag brunches and lip syncs to her own songs across LA and in my C Charlie leaks a sex tape One moment. Charlie gets caught shoplifting at a mall and leaks the CCTV footage position it carefully. So we quote unquote steal from a brand to Charlie is planning on collaborating with later on Charlie for president. Charlie announces she's running for office Tube photo shoot. Have a full photo shoot in a packed tube car with multiple team members being as obnoxious as possible and then full ball gown in the middle of the tube, mental breakdown and pouting. Okay, so who was I just talking to this about. I was talking to someone, about my sister talking to Shannon, about how do I talk about this?
Speaker 1:There are people out there who still want to be writers for some reason, and some of those people. There are people out there who want to do creative jobs, and many of those people, the path to doing those creative jobs like being a writer, being a producer, being a director that they are taking right now is to first try to blow themselves up on social media as like personas and then use that as a backdoor, use virality and eyeballs and attention as a backdoor into the creative career that they want. And I guess the most, the most like I don't know the most effective version of this is probably Kim Kardashian, who parlayed family inheritance and wealth and money that she already had, along with a marketing sensibility that starts with a sex tape, and turn that into an empire of media and apparel. And I don't know she's been in movies, she's been on TV shows like she's parlayed it into the Kim Kardashian and the Kardashian media like super empire kind of like. I don't know the most, the most extended version of this path that one can have.
Speaker 1:And then there are so many people also who will fall way, way, way short of that, who will fail completely at this thing, which is like they'll try to build an audience online. They will really bulldoze their way to 50,000 followers and that's not going to be enough to get them. You know, whatever it is that they're looking for to get a shot in a writer's room or to, you know, get their movie funded, or whatever the case may be and at that point they probably will have such an overhead cost on just maintaining their following that that will become their job. But this thing that I see right here, these marketing ideas this just reminds me that I've talked about this before, but I'm sort of taking a slower burn way toward gathering an audience, which is a combination of the spike moments like your book coming out, like my book coming out, writing on shows and press releases and stuff like that. Those are spike moments where, like, a few thousand people jump on at any given time, constant influx of content production that goes into the machine and the little bit of money that I can put behind boosting that stuff.
Speaker 1:But I don't take this sort of. I don't take some of the like the moonshot marketing moments that are available to some people like I don't know, dating a famous person or doing something that feels beneath you but that will garner a lot of attention at one moment, or going on somebody's podcast and turning it into a circus on purpose for eyeballs, for attention. You know what I mean and Truly I also don't disparage anybody else who takes that particular path. If you have the stomach to do it, why not? I mean, all of this is a circus. This is all ridiculousness. I don't feel a reverence over the digital space, where you shouldn't do those kind of ridiculous things, but I do feel a reverence about your personal life, about your inner life, your real life. So if those things are going to fuck with you, if those things are going to change you, if those things are going to make you feel bad about who you are, then I wouldn't go for it. But anyway, morgan, please pitch me your marketing ideas.
Speaker 2:Give me some of those ideas. Well, the first one was going to be date a famous person, but we could just Well, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1:So who do you have in mind?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know, because the only one I know that you love is engaged.
Speaker 1:Who's that?
Speaker 2:What's her face?
Speaker 1:This is Zoe Kravitz.
Speaker 2:Zoe.
Speaker 1:Kravitz yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought she Wait, is she not engaged? She's not.
Speaker 1:I mean, she was just married, hold, Okay, wait, wait, she was just married two seconds ago. Yeah, and you know what I think I'm over? Zoe Kravitz.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, she's engaged to Tate.
Speaker 1:She's engaged to Tate yes. I'm sorry so you're saying I have a shot, just kidding. Okay, who else? So she's out.
Speaker 2:She's out. There's the woman from Atlanta.
Speaker 1:This is going great. Tazzie Beatz, who I think is also engaged and or married to a white man.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's extra marketing value if you home wreck.
Speaker 3:Okay, based on our last conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you're just.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you're just. Are you just floating out biracial witchy looking bohemian?
Speaker 2:woman. This is based off of people that I knew you liked, so that is being flipped right back on you.
Speaker 1:I mean keep going, morgan.
Speaker 2:Anyway, okay, no, let me move on. But Did you have other people written down? No, I honestly just wrote that down because you just Well, let's examine it for a second. First of all, I think that they would have to be A-list, otherwise it's not worth it.
Speaker 1:By the way, Okay, you really put some thought into this. All right, they would have to be A-list, otherwise I think if I was going to go that route I think for. So if I was going to go the route of dating someone I don't love for eyeballs and attention right, that's what we're saying Then I think I would need to really max it out. I think I really need to knock it out of the park by Don't say what.
Speaker 2:A Kardashian.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, a Kardashian would be interesting because it would ruin my life, it would destroy my life, but it would offer this sort of attention and eyeball. It would really make my book sell, what literally my book is about selling out. So I think that would be really good for marketing. I am attracted to a few Kardashians. I do think that they cause pain to the people that they are in relationships with. Actually, you know what? I don't think that's necessarily true. I think that they do well to source men who are already on the road to pain and they are accelerators. They seek out people who are really weak inside and really broken inside and then they plug them into their system and then it goes awry. No, I wasn't thinking of Kardashian so much as Oprah. Oprah. Yeah, oprah, is she not single? I'm not sure, is she?
Speaker 1:single, I think her and Stedman split up.
Speaker 3:Oh fine, Morgan's out on this.
Speaker 1:Why do you have that reaction?
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 3:You know it's funny. Oprah crossed my mind and I was.
Speaker 2:No, she's fully definitely like, still a rich.
Speaker 1:Why did you have that reaction, Morgan?
Speaker 2:Because she's 70 years old. This isn't about love, though.
Speaker 1:This isn't about yeah, morgan, or attraction, sorry, okay, keep your eye on the ball here, all right, moving on, what's the next idea?
Speaker 2:Okay, so again, these are also like. These were inspired by the ideas that Charlie's shared, so there's one real one at the end, but these are just for fun, I think.
Speaker 1:the more ridiculous the better, though Sometimes that's how it works.
Speaker 2:I think so. Here we tie a bunch of balloons around you and sail you over Prospect Park.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Because that would be amazing If we could have you like fly.
Speaker 1:Is there a message here?
Speaker 2:You could be wearing like some merch.
Speaker 1:Okay, what's the next one, Morgan?
Speaker 2:We kidnap your dog and have you scared searching for her. That sounds horrible, but you would know she's safe.
Speaker 1:Oh, so I'm doing like Instagram.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're like doing a bit, but like I have her and I'm like help me.
Speaker 1:Can you help me find?
Speaker 2:my dog. You're like doing community work. Maybe you start an organization about like lost dogs and then a couple months later she comes back.
Speaker 1:Okay, I like that one Dog gave that one.
Speaker 2:I give you shellfish in public and let strangers save you.
Speaker 1:While filming, yes, okay. So it's like a moment, it's like Chad's in peril, and then this person comes and saves me and then it goes viral because Right.
Speaker 2:Because, like everyday hero type of thing, you make someone feel like they, and then maybe you guys start a production company together.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think, yes, I do think there's legs to the almost dying lane. I think people like that. I think they like to see someone who is almost dead and then it doesn't die.
Speaker 2:The people really rally around that. But then like, what better way than like kid off the street? Ooh, if it's like a kid too.
Speaker 1:But then he's a hero I don't want to be. I can't be upstaged. This is about this is really important for me. It's actually that's really important that the other person is completely overshadowed by me.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:That's necessary.
Speaker 2:Okay, so then we can maybe, like you have like a come to God moment in your near death experience and you like have a third eye now or something.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's come to God. Is that like a? Is that a Gen Z thing?
Speaker 2:No, that's like an old phrase, isn't it?
Speaker 1:All right, have you all replaced come to Jesus with come to God? All right, moving on, what's the next one, morgan?
Speaker 2:The next one is we get you tweezed in a shield to make a dish track.
Speaker 1:Are we dissing?
Speaker 2:I don't know Somebody, that people that their fan base would be upset about. But that way it's not just you, you know it's, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1:No, I don't want that.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, that has legs. I like that Diss track is interesting.
Speaker 2:You go to a stand up show and walk on stage and steal the mic from the headliner to promote nothing but anarchy Video. I get the addresses of people in the New York area that have ordered your book online and you go and give a hug to each one.
Speaker 1:I like that, except germs.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah and COVID.
Speaker 2:And then the last one that I think could actually be a thing is like a man on the street creative advice corner. So like either you go to a coffee shop and you have like a little sign that says like five minutes of creative advice. I was just like a little taste to like your overall, like new leg.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then like if people either really enjoy it or they want more than five, and like there would be like a legitimate timer where it's all out of time, but if you want to talk more, you know.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't hate that. Let's let's. It probably take us like 12 hours to get three people to do the thing.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you know it would be like, it would be like an all day affair. And I got this idea because there was this dog trainer who was just posted up a coffee shop giving free dog training advice. But she had a dog training company and I was like, wow, that's so nice.
Speaker 1:Like, did she give video?
Speaker 2:No, it was just her.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, well, we need video for all of these. All right, great job, morgan. Excellent job with the segment that was marketing ideas with Morgan man. I'm so glad we did an episode today.
Speaker 2:There's five minutes left.
Speaker 3:Shannon said these are all bangers.
Speaker 1:These are all bangers. Thank you, shannon. All right, where am I going to land here? Here's what I'm going to land Fuck it. You know what? I wanted to stay away from this because I'm sick, my brain doesn't work, but I'm just going to do it. There's a clip from the Joe Budden show going viral right now. Morgan, you sent this to me. I know what to do. Do you not want me to talk?
Speaker 2:about it. No, no, no, go for it.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's a clip from the Joe Budden show going viral right now. This is in the sewer, this is like this is like. This is dirty, but I'm going to do it because you know what Fuck it. In the clip, joe Budden arguing with his friend of multiple decades who goes by the name of ish. On the show they're arguing about having had relations with the same person sexually and the argument seems to be that ish feels this is relating to our home wrecking conversation and sort of.
Speaker 1:Ish feels like Joe went out of his way to have relations with someone from ish's past and he is taking issue with Joe because he thinks he feels like that's a thing for Joe. He feels like Joe, joe goes out of his way to sleep with people that his friends have slept with. I'm saying this like so, differently than how all of this is said on the show, but this is indeed the matter at hand on the show and I guess I post to the room. I post to the room related to the home wrecking conversation, but different because this is we're talking about two people who are no longer in a relationship or in relations with one another. Is there anything bad or immoral about dating someone who one of your friends has dated. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 2:Okay, so one. It's 12 58 and I feel like we could spend a lot of time here, but this also might be a good moment to like pose this to other people on your Instagram and then we recap this conversation on Tuesday but, I'll just say, as a little like side thing, I think there's like a what's it called Years or like a time.
Speaker 1:I guess, is there a statute of limitations, statute of?
Speaker 2:limitations, but also like it's really dependent on the situation and where both of those people are now and how they end. There's a lot of, I feel like caveats in there.
Speaker 1:Okay, it is circumstance dependent, josh. These are teasers, then. We're going to come back to this on Tuesday.
Speaker 3:This is oddly something I have a little bit of familiarity with. Whoa. I forgot about that, that. I forgot about again In what way, josh, the thing is like.
Speaker 3:This was such a long time ago as a teenager, so like this barely counts in my book. But I think for me I'll just say real quick if I could tell that my friend didn't really care about that person in a certain way, like they didn't have first of all they didn't have a very long relationship and it wasn't really about I didn't, it wasn't really about me trying to like oh, I want to get her because she's been with him, or something like that. I have a feeling that Joe Budden really probably has that gene. I don't know why, that's just a guess, but I have a feeling he really does have that gene where he just likes to do that. But yeah, I don't really think there's a huge problem with it, as long as it's not like a thing that you're actively trying to do and also something to be said about, like the other person that also has a choice in a matter too.
Speaker 2:So Right, yes, shardae says you can have him. Shardae, come back and be in the comments on Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Shardae. Is Shardae gonna be in Washington DC? That's the question. I'm waiting for her response. Then we will wrap the show. Shardae, will you be in DC on next Thursday?
Speaker 2:Are you just staring at the chat? I am. I feel like she is, though.
Speaker 1:I think she is too All right. This has been absolutely our worst show and I'm so glad we did it. It's fine, we did it. I mean it's been. It's just, I've been awful Like I have just been an absolute shell of myself.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes sir.
Speaker 1:Okay, excellent. Well, that's good news to end the show. No, everybody else did great. I was a C, I was an E minus. I was so bad and I'm fine with that. This is a volume. This is a volume game. Thank you to everybody who sat through this. Thank you to everybody who came to be with me while I'm sick. I have a man cold. I'm gonna go home and lay on the floor. Penny's gonna lick my face. Penny is judging me throughout the duration of this cold. This is nothing but anarchy. Listen, all right. The live show is one week from today in Washington DC, february 8th, seven o'clock, shanklin Hall. Doors open at seven. There are 18 tickets remaining correct 18 tickets remaining. There are 18 tickets remaining. Everybody's gonna buy the-.
Speaker 2:Wait you did.
Speaker 1:You told me that an hour ago.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:I just I cannot emphasize enough that once those tickets are gone, that's it. If you wanna hang next Thursday, then you'll have to catch us on the let out on the way out of the venue. Tia Mowbley's DJing. We're excited about that. She DJed our launch party and we will be there and I will be back. I will be back from this. We will have a much better show than we did today, and that's it. At Chad Sand on Instagram. If you wanna talk to us at Mowby Williams on Instagram, M-O-B-Y Williams, All right, see you guys Tuesday. We'll be back Same time. I'm so gross I'm going to go recover myself. That's perfect, you.
