Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
Subscribe to the "Nothing But Anarchy" Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #94 Ye's #1 Billboard Song, Black Twitter Documentary Debate, and the TikTok Ban's Threat to Creators
On this outdoor episode, Chad talks about Ye and his new #1 song, Black Twitter and the upcoming documentary, and the TikTok ban.
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
Okay, welcome to nothing but anarchy. We're outside, we're in Queens, we are some minute matter of minutes away from where I live. We're in this giant field that I usually bring penny to to throw the ball, because it is literally gigantic. I can't really y'all can't see a pan around. A pan around of it, right, this second. But anyway, all right, let's do the show.
Speaker 1:So, first thing on the docket here Kanye West has a number one song on Billboard. It is his first time having a number one charting, not a number one hip hop song, not a number one R&B song. Like a number. He has the number one song in the world as told by Billboard and billboards algorithm that discernments who has the biggest show or song in the world is opaque. Nobody outside of that room can be certain about exactly what it means to have the number one song in the world, but like it's a, it seems to be a big deal. The reason why it's opaque is because it was always opaque, but like it used to be, about streams and, I believe, record sales and, I'm sorry, not streams radio plays and record sales. And now it has to factor in streams and those streams come from everywhere. They come from Spotify, apple Music, tiktok, instagram. So like having the number one song in the world means your song is big in all of those mediums. Why this is noteworthy.
Speaker 1:Actually, before I even say that, this reminds me of something in college, which was that I used to write on the newspaper in college obviously because I'm a nerd and there was this thing that we would release as a paper every week or so two weeks, which was called 20 questions, and it would be these 20 esoteric questions about goings on and it would be positive on campus and at Morehouse and Spelman and Clark, and it would posit different theories about what's up with certain people. It would be messy, it would be spicy, it would be like really pointed and sometimes mean, and because I was like at the, at when I got all the way to, you know, probably my junior year, I was like number two or number three on the paper and the paper Wow, this sounds so old. Morgan, did you guys have a college newspaper? Yeah, we did. Okay, word. Did it actually have physical copies? Yeah, okay, word. Well, so it's not in the calf, yeah, so all right. This thing used to happen where, because people knew that I was on the paper and very much in like the inner circle of the paper, where when something would come out, it would be some pretty spicy shit on there, like it would get into people's relationships, people's sexual identity, people's future, people's money. Like it would really go there and every time something would come out that was regarding somebody I was close to, people would it could get a little spicy.
Speaker 1:One time I was at a party and there was a girl there. We were all outside the party, we were like about to get into a bunch of cars and drive to the next spot and there was a girl there who I was close friends with I'm saying a girl because we were like 20, 19 years old and she was super drunk and she slipped and fell and she hurt herself and I didn't have anything to do with her slipping and falling and hurting herself and it found its way into 20 questions and I didn't put it there and I remember for like six months after that happened she and her smaller circle of friends were very icy with me and I didn't know why. Like I had no idea I was there. I was helping her when the incident occurred, like I didn't know what it was, and what it turned out to be was that they thought I was responsible for putting her on blast with that and making her look like a lush in front of our campus. And I didn't. And the truth in fact is and this is only interesting to people who I went to college with I never knew who wrote 20 questions. I still to this moment, don't know who wrote 20 questions, which is crazy because I was basically damn near like the editor in chief of the paper. So I don't know how they were written, I don't know how they got in there, I don't know who submitted them, whatever.
Speaker 1:I'm saying that because there is an intentional power that publications what do you want to call them? Committees, academies preserve for themselves by not telling you how the sausage gets made. Like that is. That is like almost their intellectual property. That is the leverage that they have to maintain prestige and bargaining power over the industries that they're in. Obviously, there's the academy around the Oscars that preserves that power by not telling you exactly how you are supposed to win. The Grammys are like that. Billboard is also like that. Probably only a very small group of people know exactly how you get a number one top, a number one charting song, and so that can create the, that can create the feeling among the rest of us that there is some black magic afoot and that you have to like kowtow to the powers that be to get a number one song.
Speaker 1:That whole setup was to say this Kanye West Morgan wants me to call him by his government name, which is now yay, but as I came to know him, like as a fan and also a little bit in IRL like Kanye West is doing something that you are not really allowed to be able. You're not, like we do so much conspiracy, theorizing around what you can and cannot get away with on this earth, and especially in this country, because you're going to be boxed out of this room. These people are going to be mad at you. You're not going to be able to do this. You're not going to be able to play in this, in this sport, and like this dude, as an independent artist with no label behind him besides his own, which is formidable, so I don't want to act like he as a label is not powerful, but like this dude, who has been outwardly spewing anti-semitic rhetoric, who has been outwardly uh, misogynistic, homophobic, like he is doing the thing that I think has always been his aspiration, which is, to excuse me, which is to be as brazen and, in some cases, mean and and and like unfounded as a powerful white man, without being boxed out of the rooms that he wants to be boxed out of. I'm watching it happen.
Speaker 1:I didn't think he was, I didn't think it was possible. He has transcended what I think I had my brain wrapped around in terms of the power that an artist could have by themselves. And obviously he doesn't work by himself. He has a team around him, he has faculties, he has buildings that he leases and owns, he has, you know, connections all over the planet, but like he is poked in the eye the people who you're not supposed to be allowed to poke in the eye and he's getting away with it because still yet his art is at the top of the top of the thing. Okay, that's all premise. Now I want to dig into it a little bit. Number one um, I listened to Kanye's whole album when it came out. If Kanye West drops an album, I will pretty much always listen to it because I want to know.
Speaker 1:I have been studying the arc of this person so fastidiously since I was 16 years old. At one point it was aspirational. It was like I want to. I want to be like this guy, which is to say, I want to have the confidence in myself and in my artistic ability to like play with the biggest toys and make the most impactful stuff. Lately, it has transitioned to where I'm really just now watching out of voyeurism.
Speaker 1:I think Kanye West is doing what he set out to do, which was, it seems like he wants us to believe that all the rules are make-believe, like it seems like he wants us to to reconsider what we think are the boundaries. Very specifically and as example, it is so like laid into the fabric of black culture and other cultures that, like you do not insult Jewish people. That is like that is a rule and like hold everybody, I'm working especially I'm sure you guys are very nervous with where I'm going here. All I am saying is like he is pointing out things that we have shared to be so and he's poking them in the eye and he's continuing to do the thing and I'm just like how? Basically, I'm like how much longer can he get away with this? I'm not saying it's a good thing to do, I'm not saying the experiment that he's doing is positive, but it's? It's making me reconsider, like the things that we fear and accept to be so like. Why do we do it? He doesn't seem to have that thing that makes you afraid of the same stuff other people are afraid of. I think he's afraid of his own stuff, I think he's afraid of being alone. I think he's afraid of being unheard, invisible, but he doesn't seem to be afraid of the same shit that makes me scared. So I'm curious to see what's up with that. Okay, another layer here.
Speaker 1:When I saw this story, when I sent this story to Morgan and said hey, I want to talk about Kanye going number one, she said we should also talk about the person that he fired who was like his head of basically, his head is publicity, sort of almost, yeah, like head of promotion, head of community. And so I dug into it and that person happens to be yes, jules. And I will be honest, like the first place, kanye surrounds him with people who are, who are, the internet. Like that is his. He has married people who are the internet he is, he staffs himself by people who are the internet.
Speaker 1:The first connotation I had to yes, jules was that, yes, jules had a sex tape. That's the first thing I remembered about yes Jules when her name, I was like, who is this person again, what's this name? And I remember like eight years ago it was floating around the internet and that was my first time of knowing that this person existed. And how she existed was that she was sort of like the original Bobby Altaff, like she was on Snapchat interviewing black rappers affecting black. I think she wore a shirt that had the N word on it and there was this whole swirl around this person which was like is she black? Is she not? What is she doing around our culture? And like what is and what is her purpose here? I have not been aware of yes Jules since that moment until today, when Morgan said we should also talk about the person that has been running his publicity around this particular song.
Speaker 1:So I went and looked and a part of what's happening right now is that Kanye has fired this person because she has inside Kanye's camp. He has a far alt right. I guess COO basically is what this guy's job is. What's his name? Morgan? It's like the Milo's guy. Okay, we don't know how to pronounce his last name. His first name was Milo.
Speaker 1:This is excellent journalism by us. The point is that, yes, jules is in a like a standoff with this guy because, as it seems, they both were in the inner inner, inner circle with Kanye. Yes, jules has published and tweeted and sent out like screenshots of their text group. Here's this guy and Kanye. This is ridiculous. This is like an ad-lib and a mad love.
Speaker 1:What I see there in those text messages that she has published, is that Kanye continues to be surrounded by people who, at this point, are like Kanye, which means they look completely vapid and empty of anything other than the pursuit of more power, influence, ways to dominate other people, like ways to take out their angry viciousness on others, ways to poke at the insecurities of other people to mirror their own. I don't know if I have a landing point, because this is like still in the middle of where it's at, which is to say, like Kanye is back at number one, at the top of this whole thing. That just comes as a reminder to me that, over and over and over again, we just can't quit Kanye and we just keep voting for Kanye. That's all I got. All right, okay, this is not a backtrack, this is just. This is now that I have had 30 seconds to process it.
Speaker 1:Like, talking about Kanye just gives me internet brain. I'm just like what are we even talking about? Like what? I'm like what, the what? Like yes, jewels involved. Like what the fuck is even going on? It's very difficult to talk about guy in a way that feels like he's just like. It's just like what. It's just a kaleidoscope of dumbness. Okay, all right, sorry about black Twitter. Okay, morgan smiling already, but what? Alright, let's start here.
Speaker 1:I want Morgan to share a couple things. You'll just be a voice behind the screen, like okay. The first thing is this Morgan, we are okay, let me set the stage. There's a black everybody probably knows this, but there's a black Twitter documentary coming out. It comes out. I think this isn't promo, I'm not saying when it comes out, but there's a black Twitter doc coming out. Princess Penny, who was the showrunner of insecure, is the filmmaker. It is featuring the voices of several Black Celebrities, voices you know, across mediums or industries. I saw Jamel Hill is involved. Kid fury is involved Apparently, like allegedly, or apparently because of the trailers and shit. I have no, I haven't confirmed any of that. But here's what I want to start. Okay, because I do think that as, as a community evolves here within this show, and also as people get to know each other and get to know, like, your voice.
Speaker 1:I Think a part of what is fun and interesting about conversation is the ways that we Predict each other's points of view, and Morgan and I have now spent almost a year together, like in this show. We've known each other for almost two years probably now, or maybe over two years now, but we've really got, we're really getting to know each other through the duration of this show. It's been almost a year, almost a year exactly. At this point, morgan, I want to know two things. We talked briefly this morning, but like okay. One, what do you think about the black Twitter documentary, which already has, like People have already logged so many points of view on it and it's not out? Yeah, what do you think about it? And the number two is what do you think I think about it, because you seem to be anticipating my point of view.
Speaker 2:Okay, what I think about it is. I Think that I Don't know, like you said, it hasn't come out yet. I think the premise is interesting because Black Twitter has been such a huge phenomenon in culture and, like you know, opinions that like spark larger conversations and Comedy like humor yeah, that a docuseries about it could be cool, because I feel like media and Film, tv and all that stuff does document like the current places that we're in and might be the only source of Accurate history in a way, possibly.
Speaker 2:Um, so I think doing a docuseries on something as huge as black Twitter it's cool, it definitely does feel like it would be a huge feat, but I would give it like a chance, like I would like be interested in seeing it and so seeing everybody kind of be hesitant about it from the jump, despite the fact that, like it's not like a white person's thinking you, like it's Prince Penny, like which I don't know he might have controversy, I don't know. But, um, the point is I'm like I'm giving it a, not a chance.
Speaker 2:Yeah when I read the article you sent me, there was a very valid thing in there which was About who is this for, mm-hmm, and that's something that you have talked about before. Yeah, through your own experiences. Yes so I figured, based off of you sending me that and your history, some sort of response around who this is for going through the washer machine of the people at Hulu, or whoever else is behind this.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Um, and that it's going to be that.
Speaker 1:That's what you predict. So something that you said I, I mean, I have infinity things to say about this. So Something that you said to me on the phone that I really I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I.
Speaker 1:That's a part of the criticism that has already started around this black Twitter doc is that people who feel like they were actually a part of it and are, if it still exists, feel miffed because the faces that they're seeing and the person who's making the film do not reflect to them who they thought to be that who comprise that community. I want to be super duper clear on this, and I think you and I are both in this same bucket here. I am a total outsider on this conversation. Like I am not a part of black Twitter, like I can, I barely tweet because it's not a medium that I find enjoyable personally, like it's not a medium that I don't love seeing people's. I don't scroll TikTok and I don't scroll Twitter because I don't love seeing people's like quick, little shot off quips and stuff like that. Like it gives me internet brain, like it gives me it's a little overwhelming, and when I see something that feels really mean and it stings me, I don't have the ability to just jump off of it that quickly. I have to now, like I wouldn't Morgan say she's like, because I'm a man and I have a lot of I think I have a lot of feelings. Like, yeah, I have a lot of feelings.
Speaker 1:So, okay, there's the first layer, which is like, indeed, yes, morgan, we cannot do anything without criticism from our own people. That's a fact. I also want to add that art is going to be criticized. Like you can't. Like I saw Princess Penny put out a statement on Twitter that was basically like come on, you guys don't trust me to handle this thing. I've been in the culture for 20 years doing this, blah, blah, blah and one it just goes to show you like people do not know show runners like Princess, I know you think we should all know and trust you, but, like dog, we don't know you. Like your show runner, you know what I mean. Like the town knows you, hollywood knows you by your name because of insecure, but like we don't know you.
Speaker 1:Second is the fact that there's this much of a balloon already of criticism and buzz around what you're going to release. That is a gift to you. Like that is going to bring eyeballs and attention and a larger conversation, and you're going to have a chance to ride that conversation and, in some ways, probably own that conversation around this thing. This is the biggest one for me, though, this is the big one Do I think it's going to be good. I think the conversation around it is going to be more interesting than the documentary itself. I say that having seen Kid Fury notwithstanding, because he is very sharp and very interesting. I've seen some of the names and faces that are going to be in the dock, and they are faces and names that I usually scroll past because and this is meta, is a meta reflection of the dock itself because they are people who I find, when they use their voices and I'm not going to name names they're always coming at like the 70% point on the timeline of those conversations. They're late, they're never in front, they're never first, it's never a new, fresh point of view. It's like they are chronicling what the point of views already are that are being reflected around blackness and that has been.
Speaker 1:Generally speaking, my conversation or my level of engagement or observation with Black Twitter itself is that I don't feel represented by Black Twitter. I don't feel like the conversation that's happening there is leading the conversation that's happening around black circles. I feel like, and I have a problem with anything that presents itself as the black thing that doesn't truly include all of them, no matter how fucking pale, mixed like African, whatever the fuck, whatever way you use nerdy white, affecting like, whatever way you use to discredit somebody's blackness, like they're black and if their voice is not a part of the, if their voice is not reflected in some way in this community and in this doc, then it doesn't really actually represent us. And so, like I still see Black Twitter as something over there, it has a tone that I don't personally appreciate. It has a tone that is, it has a tone that is shrill. It has a tone that is sometimes mean on purpose. It has a tone that is sometimes like degenerative on purpose, and I can like you guys know my tone like I can get mean if I want to. Like I can get spicy, but it's not, like it is not meant, with the attention, to degrade first and foremost like myself and then and then like other people like me. I think that's. I think that's counter to the point.
Speaker 1:So will I watch this documentary? Probably only if some people that I like tell me to watch it and think that it's really good. But do I think it reflects, like actually, what is Black Twitter? I don't see how it. I don't see how it can. The last thing I got to say is just like y'all, we are making documentaries about Twitter. This is really we are like the internet is just really like floating away on us. Like it is. Just it is become such a naval gazing, meta, house of mirrors that like to take this seriously is counterproductive, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:The last thing I want to say here is like I know there is a sentiment out there that some people are saying, well, like hey, a black person is directing it, it's going to have a bunch of black people that get checks from it, you know, etc. Etc, etc. This is going to be a longer conversation as I roll out my book, but like that doesn't mean nothing to me anymore. Like that doesn't. Like like I'm not just out here like yo, I just want to see all black folks get rich. I want to see everybody talented and with a moral compass and like a genuinely decent human being get after it. And like I don't know these people so I'm not just going to like be rooting for their shit, no matter what. That's how I feel.
Speaker 1:There's an adjective I forgot to use that describes what I feel around black Twitter and again, I'm an outsider like I. It only reaches me when it reaches me, but it feels in that prism. It feels mean, it feels shrill and it feels performative. Now, I'm not gonna try to gatekeep, but like when I see the people and the voices that are meant to represent Black Twitter, when I am outside in real life around, I know I'm like there's nobody that knows more niggas than me on Earth. I'm the most nigga-knowing person in the whole wide world. That should probably go in the real like I. My life is comprised of every different type of Black person.
Speaker 1:Okay, and when we I don't want to say when we when I see those Black Twitter people. Irl. They are the ones observing the rest of culture, like they are the ones watching from the corner to see what does. What do Black people do so that they can go tweet it? And that's that's where I feel like do we need something to celebrate that faction? Like we're not talking about activists, we're not talking about like artists, I'm not talking about like people that actually move this thing along and help us get somewhere. I'm talking about people who observe and tweet.
Speaker 1:That's not the same as a writer, alright, so I'm going to take what Morgan just told me and try to parse it down into the most basic language that I can understand, which is a bill has been passed to Band TikTok Because there are concerns that the Chinese government could use data that they are getting from TikTok to cause a threat to the United States. And the, I guess like what's being offered as tender is like if you want TikTok to continue to exist in this country, you have to sell it. They're holding company that owns TikTok will have to sell it. Here's what I see. I see a couple things. Tiktok is at war with music labels right now, specifically Universal, I want to say Universal Music Group. Universal Music Group removed TikTok songs from. I'm sorry, universal Music Group removed Universal songs from TikTok over money disputes.
Speaker 1:This smells of super wealthy people moving the world around. It smells of super wealthy people being at war with each other and playing leverage games with each other. If I'm honest, here's, but because I'm not one of them, here's the part that I care about. One of my friends texted me this morning and said you care about what's going on with this TikTok thing? Texting me and Tim Very selfishly. My first thought was and I have felt this way for some time I hope TikTok goes away, because all my traction is on Instagram and I'm not just being a prick to say that. What I mean by that is truly this I just had a two hour long workshop yesterday with a poet who is trying to get somewhere in the business of creativity, and maybe 45 minutes into our session together, she was like damn, this whole conversation is going to be about social media, isn't it?
Speaker 1:And I was like yes, because if you want to sit with me and have a one on one sort of self discovery session to talk about how you tap in with yourself, how you figure out what you have to say, how you figure out how to craft it into whatever medium it's supposed to take. I promise you I will talk to you for 10 hours about that. There's nothing I love and excites me more. Hi, sweetie, hi Booger, okay, hi, there's nothing that I love and that excites me more. Sorry, there's a dog. We got to wait. Hi, puppy, bye, you're the little best. There's nothing I love and that excites me more.
Speaker 1:However, if you are a working creative, if you are a creative person who already has the capacity to like, make something artistic, the rest of the game is going to be commerce, and commerce happens on social media. The person who I was having a conversation with and I won't divulge too much, I don't want to, you know, break any privacy but, like, one of the things she wanted to talk about was getting signed in an agency, and I want to say definitively to anybody who has that on their vision board like you will be doing just as much, if not more, work selling yourself once you have an agency as you are doing right now, like that's not going to solve the problem. The problem is going to be solved on social media. So, with that said, I know that when people are thinking about doing business with me. They're looking at the Morgan knows this. I mean, we fucking like somewhere near the top of every document that goes out to try to get somebody interested in what is going on here is like it's just numbers. It's just how many impressions, how many downloads, how many followers. That's it.
Speaker 1:So if I could remove TikTok, which is the platform where I have the least traction, altogether off that list, I would love to do that, but that's very selfish because and this is the part that matters in the photo on the article there are people with picket signs in front of us then, or presumably a government building, that say things like don't ban TikTok. I make a living on TikTok. I am one of 170 million or billion 170 million users of TikTok in the United States. If these things disappear, these are economies, man Like people are already polar. People are already struggling. People are already unable to pay their loans off. Like this is my sister is an author. She's a lawyer as well, but like her medium is Twitter. If Elon Musk destroys Twitter and it disappears, that's really bad for her. If Instagram disappeared tomorrow, I would be scrambling, trying to find another way to talk to my audience because I need to do business with them.
Speaker 1:If TikTok goes away, I have, like actual friends who will not be able to make a living and it's really, really, really bad. And I guess their counterpoint to that would be like well, is that a greater threat to you know? Is that a greater threat to us than what the Chinese government could do with all of our data? And I can't think that long term man, like people have rent due in two weeks, people have kids who need to eat tonight. Like people have bills to pay right this second. So I guess I don't want TikTok to go away, even though selfishly it would be nice for me. Like I, it's scary when you remove channels for people to connect to each other and feed themselves without a middleman. That's bad for us. So that's how I feel about TikTok going away. This has been Nothing but Anarchy. This is a show that is outside in Queens with dogs and we will see you guys on Tuesday in the studio. That's it.
