From Friction to Affection: Conquering contempt before it's too late

Discover the secret to transforming your relationship from surviving to thriving as we, Michael and Amy, guide you through the groundbreaking work of John and Julie Gottman. With a couple's coach approach, we're bringing you a no-holds-barred conversation filled with insights into the four communication patterns that can spell doom for any partnership. Get ready to equip yourself with the tools to recognise and resolve these challenges, as we provide examples and strategies that will change your relationship game for good.

Ever found yourself wondering why small arguments escalate into full-blown conflicts? Chances are, you've encountered one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse in relationships—criticism, contempt, defensiveness, or stonewalling. We're taking a deep dive into the origins of these behaviors, unpacking how childhood experiences and everyday habits can lead to a breakdown in communication. But fear not, because we're all about solutions. We'll share the antidotes to these patterns, helping you to foster a nurturing and respectful dialogue with your partner.

The journey doesn't end with recognising these patterns—it's about overcoming them, particularly the most destructive of all: contempt. This episode isn't just an exploration, it's a roadmap to building a culture of appreciation within your partnership. We share heartfelt anecdotes and client successes that highlight the importance of mutual effort and admiration. So, join us for this transformative session and let's take that brave step together towards a more loving and resilient bond with your partner.

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Transcript

Amy: 0:10

Where Michael and Amy your couples connection coaches. Our mission is to help couples thrive using a conscious and holistic approach. This podcast is for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

Michael: 0:38

Welcome to another episode of Thrive Again, your Relationship podcast. You're with Michael and I've got Amy next to me, as always.

Amy: 0:45

Hello, yeah, I'm good Pretty well for this bright, sunny day. How about you?

Michael: 0:50

Yeah, it's a bright, sunny day when I'm next to you.

Amy: 0:53

You are, you're so cute.

Michael: 0:57

Oh, welcome listeners. And yeah, we wanted to share something with you today that is. It's quite scary actually, because we can actually predict the force now, based on 30 years of research and Well, not us personally.

Amy: 1:15

We can't predict it?

Michael: 1:16

I think we can by leveraging off geniuses in this field.

Amy: 1:20

That's true, yes, yep.

Michael: 1:23

So with the percentage of accuracy can we predict the force?

Amy: 1:27

Yeah, they say it's 94% accuracy. That that's pretty accurate. Yeah, it's not bad, is it? And that's a lot of research and a lot of study that has been undertaken to get to this percentage. So maybe this episode is worth listening to and sticking around right to the end, because we will be sharing an antidote to kind of rectify or change the situation potentially that might might be playing out in your relationship. I think it's going to be a good one.

Michael: 1:59

Yeah. So we're going to dive into this and while you're listening, I encourage you to really listen with presence, because there's going to be some examples in here that we need you to pay attention to if you really want to identify and shift these patterns in your relationship. So I like to zoom out, zone out in some podcasts, and I'm sure you do too, but this one we just ask of you just to really tune into, especially when there's examples, and just think about if they exist in your relationship, because we're going to go through four different areas or four different negative communication patterns that exist in most relationships that contribute to divorce, with 94% accuracy. So get ready.

Amy: 2:47

Yeah, it's definitely worth listening to with special awareness. So where do we start? Where do we dive in?

Michael: 2:55

Well, I think we need to start at recognizing that these traits that we're about to map out, they exist in just about every relationship. So the last thing that we really want to infuse is some level of shame or guilt in your relationship that probably already exists, so we don't want to perpetuate that. So I just want you to recognize that these four things exist in just about every relationship to some degree, and so we're all at where we are right now, in this moment. And secondly, I wanted to start to explore some of the work from John Gottman. John and Julie Gottman, who are absolute like ninjas in the relationship field. They have worked so hard in this space for decades and our training is underpinned by a lot of their learnings, and we can't ignore what the research is saying.

Amy: 3:59

Yeah, it's pretty amazing the effort and energy and time and their whole dedication really to life. Isn't it the research that they have conducted over the past 30 years or more? So, yeah, they've gone and studied intimately couples in a relationship in a house. So they've set up cameras and they've gone about watching and studying all their behaviors that play out.

Michael: 4:28

Not only their behaviors, but also their internal systems and how actually it plays into our heart rates, into the amount of oxygenation going around at the time, and even what area of the brain is actually lighting up during conflict.

Amy: 4:46

Yeah, it's pretty amazing and in-depth research for sure. So that's why I guess we've done some study through them and I think you probably heard about this in some capacity if you're in the relationship field. But if you haven't, then this is a perfect opportunity to drop in and get a quick little glimpse into what they have shown in their research over the years.

Michael: 5:10

All right. So what we're going to go over is what he calls the four horsemen of the apocalypse, and this is based on his years of research on couples. So these four negative communication patterns are predictive of relationship dissatisfaction and divorce if left unchecked. So the first one you'll be very familiar with because you would have experienced it, and that is criticism. So it's when you're actually criticized or you're offloading criticism onto your partner, and we can give a couple of examples.

Amy: 5:47

We sure can, because I think it still sometimes drops into our relationship. So, like we said, this is not about kind of shaming you guys or like, oh, I feel so bad, I do that so often because we all do. But yeah, an example of criticism is you always leave the dishes unwashed. Why can't you be more responsible?

Michael: 6:09

Yeah, yeah. So what's happening in this example, like the first sentence, is you always leave the dishes unwashed. So if we can pull apart that simple statement, which can happen in a flash through frustration and you're just done with it, I'm sick of this. But then you're communicating you always for starters, right. So by saying you always is we've mentioned in the past, that's an absolute. So an absolute is an assumption that they actually always do it. It's all encompassing. Nothing else happens other than this.

Michael: 6:44

Yeah, it's obviously over exaggeration often a lot of the times, but, like you said, it's set in frustration because it feels like that way yeah so, yeah so, or another example could be something like Well, actually I want to sit with this for a moment, because what happens is the translation of you always is the receiver of that ends up seeing that your partner is being dismissive of all the good things that you've done. All she ever focuses on is all the bad things, the negative things, and so it feels like I'm doing heaps of work. I'm doing all the things, but it's like I'm not even getting recognition and, in fact, I'm only getting criticized.

Amy: 7:28

Yeah, good point.

Michael: 7:29

Yeah, and the next part of that criticism was why can't you be more responsible? Yeah, so it's actually almost speaking to them as if they're a child.

Amy: 7:41

Yeah, and it's obviously condescending or putting them down as well as criticising them too.

Michael: 7:48

And another example is like you never listen to me. I'm tired of having to repeat myself all the time. So, again, you never, you know, you never listen to me. Another absolute, and of course it's out of frustration and it's because you probably haven't been heard. Yeah, but it comes out as a criticism.

Amy: 8:07

Yeah, for sure. And I think the other part of that is not noticing, like you said, not noticing actually all the times they have listened or they do listen and therefore it kind of really hurts that other person who receives that criticism. And maybe you don't realise it, you know you're like whatever, blush it off but actually all of these little things do impact the way we feel, the way we show up and the way we are in relationships. So it is important to recognise if these are playing out because, yeah, they do have an impact for sure.

Michael: 8:38

Yeah, and we're gonna give anti-dotes to these guys. So the second one is contempt. So contempt is when there's an element of superiority in the energy between the two of you and it's kind of how would you describe it? It's kind of like an overpowering, overbearing, domineering kind of state of being and it comes out in the words.

Amy: 9:03

Yeah, for sure. It's kind of like I'm better than you and I'm trying to belittle you. You know, I think that that energy. It comes out in like mocking and sarcasm even yeah yeah, you know like I think we did a reel on this recently. But you know, like why are you always late home? I learned to tell the time when I was five years old. What's wrong with you?

Michael: 9:24

Yeah, that's it. There's heaps in there right. What's wrong with you at the end is just kaboom. That's just like a knife in. Yeah yeah, I learned to tell the time you know when. I was five years old, so that's assuming that they're a child. So, again, that's superiority. Yeah, and also could be just eye-rolling when your partner speaks to them. Yeah, when your partner's speaking to you and you eye-roll at them or you dismiss them in some way, that shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

Amy: 9:55

Yeah, and I've seen it actually happen with couples that we're working with, even if, like, someone's got an idea about something that they love, they're passionate about hey, I really want to go and buy this sailboat, you know and the other partner kind of just like washes over it with a bit of an eye roll of like that's never gonna happen you know, that kind of energy that's.

Amy: 10:14

That is contempt, essentially because you're putting them down, you that's a dream or a passion that they are interested in and you're effectively squashing that completely by not even saying anything. It's just the look that you have on your face, it's the body language that you're using just to show them that that's, that's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, very, very hurtful.

Michael: 10:37

Yeah. So the third of the four horses is defensiveness. So defensiveness normally comes when we feel like we're attacked. Right, it's kind of like in in a battle. Imagine yourself in a war and you know. The defensiveness side of things is it's kind of like putting yourself in a position where you're free from from any form of blame. So what you do is you generally reverse the blame, so you somehow turn it around by bringing up history. Oh well, it's all right for you, isn't it? Who last week left the dishwasher open? You know that kind of boom. I'm going to turn it around from me taking any form of responsibility. So an example of that just might be just, I don't know even, like if someone, if you just throw a criticism at me and I would just come back with us it's not my fault, the laundry wasn't done. You never gave me a heads up or I only snapped at you because you were nagging me all day. So we're giving reasons as to why we can't take responsibility and why it's actually all your fault.

Amy: 11:49

Yeah, passing the buck.

Amy: 11:51

Yeah, that's pretty much what it is Just pass it back over and you know and this is a very in what's the word I'm struggling today. You know like an unconscious behavior, I suppose, because you've probably done this since you're a child. You know this is like a school kid sort of thing, like the teacher's like, oh, was that you talking out loud? Or, you know, talking without putting your hand up, or something. You're like, no, no, that wasn't me, that was that person. You know, like you're passing the blame on someone else. So that kind of gets installed early. Or it could just be in a family dynamic when the you know siblings are finding who is that being naughty and like, oh, that was him, you know my brother. So that that behavior has become like installed in you to never take responsibility, who you're not going to own up for.

Amy: 12:38

Oh, yeah, that was me. Well, not very often. Anyway, I don't know if many, many kids have that level of maturity, but I wanted to kind of speak into the fact that this is something that comes from childhood and it takes a real level of maturity to stop with when the defensiveness plays out and actually, oh, own it, take responsibility. Yeah, you're right, I did. I didn't shut the dishwasher door and now the floor's flooded. You know, as opposed to blaming, blaming.

Michael: 13:08

Yeah, yeah, so that's the ideal scenario.

Michael: 13:11

And I think we need to. You know it's easy to compartmentalize this, but remember, the reason that you're defensive is probably because you cop criticism in the first place. So it's about getting to the root cause of the issue. So just understanding. It's easy for us to break these apart, but in a long string of how your pattern works in your relationship that's actually what we do in terms of coaching uniquely we pull apart that pattern, we help you to reveal it to each other and then you can actually see how this is actually working in day to day workings of your relationship.

Amy: 13:42

So yeah, for sure. It's not just a once off. It's something to definitely dive into and look at the root cause of.

Amy: 13:49

Yeah so number four stonewalling. So this is this is kind of getting to the point now where you don't know how else to deal with it, like you don't know what else to do with this communication style that you just need to shut down Because if you potentially, if you continue, it could flare up and lead into an argument even worse or you might be actually frightened of what you're going to say. So the stonewalling is like a defense mechanism that is somehow. It does create a bit of safety for yourself because you know that potentially the outcome could be going down the wrong path. But it's really really negative in a relationship to continually stonewall.

Michael: 14:32

Yeah, because your partner, when you're actually shutting down, you're giving them the silent treatment and you're just giving them this stern face, literally a stonewall, then your partner might interpret that in a way that you don't care, you're not really even caring about my needs and my feelings and then so, especially if they're an anxious attachment your partner they're going to, that's going to really tick them off. So stonewalling can be really, really damaging and you know, effectively, stonewallers generally are avoidant, but they will possibly just leave the room of the house and the conflict is still unresolved.

Amy: 15:11

Yep, yeah, something to keep an eye out for, and I'm sure maybe at some point you've experienced stonewalling.

Michael: 15:18

Yeah, so let's just get you guys to guess, like, out of these four, which of the four are the most damaging? So we, we started with criticism Yep, so criticism. The next one was contempt when you've got that superiority, yep. Then we had defensiveness, so reversing the blame, and. And then the final one was stonewalling, so just shutting down and giving them the silent treatment. So which of those four is the most damaging?

Amy: 15:51

Yeah, and I'm curious to kind of think while you're pondering that question, I'm curious to also ask you guys to have a think about which one you see plays out most, which one of those maybe plays out most in your relationship, because often we do, I mean, we see often all of them, but potentially you might notice one more than the others.

Michael: 16:11

Yeah, All right. So the answer is drumroll.

Amy: 16:17

It's can't, it's contempt.

Michael: 16:19

So it was the second one. So contempt right. So why is this considered the number one predictor of divorce, according to John Gottman?

Amy: 16:29

It is considered because of its corrosive nature and it's really profound impact on relationships because of that feeling of superiority and disrespect towards your partner, then that is going to cause such a rupture between your connection and that sometimes is very, very difficult to repair.

Michael: 16:49

Yeah, it's. It's effectively saying like I'm better than you and you're less than me, yeah. So really simple, harsh remarks Can be underneath this category, like you're an idiot, you know you're hopeless, you disgust me, yeah. And there might even be some underlying Issues, like I don't know, like jealousy in your relationship, but it comes out in contempt. Like we haven't had sex in months.

Michael: 17:20

Are you too busy flirting with that guy at work? Why don't you just go and marry him instead, so that you can see how your frustration that might exist in the relationship can come out, as in the surface level, as contempt, and and Amy and I in our work, we're not so interested in Manipulating the behavior, right. So those comments, we can just say you should just stop them. And this is how you stop them. You replace them with this, which is definitely helpful. To have that knowledge. We're more interested in what's happening underneath for you to have the Impulsiveness to come out with that comment. That's where the gold is, because it's not so much about the remark, it's the underlying pain and the emotion that's felt underneath that remark. What does that really mean to you? Why would you say that?

Amy: 18:18

Yeah, and it's surprising how that so much pain causes that behavior to come, come out. You know, and we don't we kind of we're so great at humans just to push all that stuff away and shove it down. But this is where it can really impact relationships and the longevity of them and the health of them and your own personal health. Let's be honest, like there is this, even research that John Gottman's done talks about, you know, the impact of our immune system, that the you know the negative impact on our immune system in an unhealthy relationship.

Amy: 18:52

So all of these things, when we are not dealing with that underlying pain and when we keep shoving it down and pushing it away, unfortunately it comes out, but it comes out often in the most horrible ways, like some of those like you disgust me. You, you, an idiot, like all of that kind of language can be really hurtful to each other and that's often the one we love the most, that we're the most nasty to.

Michael: 19:18

Yeah, it's so true, and that's why we use this as a gauge. You know, if you have contempt, that's right through your relationship, then that's a really good signal, a very strong signal that your emotions are not, are not being or you're not being heard, which is causing you to have an emotional Disregulation or imbalance when you're with your partner.

Amy: 19:45

Yeah, yeah. So that's you know. The the most detrimental part of this is Is the lack of respect for each other when you get to you know being contemptuous in a relationship. I think it is. Yeah, yeah.

Michael: 19:59

How much does respect, you know, play in your relationship? Like, have a think about how much respect you actually receive from your partner and maybe, when that respect is ruptured, you know, do you really feel respected and do you respect them, or at times, do you actually disrespect them in nasty, harmful ways? Yeah, because if you don't have respect for each other, then you're really on a rocky road.

Amy: 20:29

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty horrible. It's a bit of a poison, isn't it contempt? It's like this toxic poison that can really end up corroding your relationship completely away, and that's why they can predict the divorce right 94% accuracy. If this is playing out, then it's pretty clear that you're on a one-way track.

Amy: 20:47

But often we can help couples who are both willing and both wanting to change this behavior and get to that root cause of that pain and hurt because we don't, we don't like how we behave sometimes, but sometimes we just can't help it right, we can't help but lash out like that because of that pain and sitting inside of us. So that's what we want to help couples with and when we have helped couples in that situation, oh lord it's so beautiful to watch.

Michael: 21:15

It is it's like magic, because what happens is we've got a space that's been created where you now have permission to speak up about what's hurting you in this relationship, and your partner is there to listen, and to listen to the hurt that's underneath it, rather than the words and the abuse and the criticism that normally comes out.

Amy: 21:35

But see, this is the thing, too that I find interesting that a lot of people don't know what the hurt is.

Michael: 21:39

That's right.

Amy: 21:40

they don't, yeah, so that in itself, where we guide couples to kind of dive in and dig into where does that suffering come from? Where does that hurt and pain, the behavior that is shown on the external? Where does that come from on the internal? So it's a bit of a journey but it can be really profound. So maybe we could dive into some of the antidotes before it's too late, yeah, yeah for sure.

Michael: 22:06

So you know, contempt is actually a long game, so it's not a quick snap of the fingers. So I want you to understand that, because it is important that all of us just want this quick pill. This is how we change it Bang. Well, I'm going to give you the antidote now and, as I said, this is based on a lot of research. But a lot of people won't like this and they might find it really hard, and even the possibility of transitioning to this could be like a fantasy, you know, in their eyes at the moment.

Michael: 22:41

So the antidote to contempt is to cultivate a culture of appreciation and respect in your relationship. Now, the way in which you would do that is you make an effort to show admiration and gratitude for your partner, for who they are, for their strengths, for their gifts, for the energy that they bring to the family. In whatever way you see it, you speak it. That is, and can be, one of the hardest transitions for a couple to make, especially when there's been a lot of contempt that underlies their current state. The reason it's hard is because you've already got tickets on all the times that they've hurt you.

Michael: 23:28

Now why would you go around and say I love the way that you, you know you help out with the housework and the way that you give up basically your life to help us, you know, with the kids and your ambition you've put to the side. I just really appreciate that, and if you were to communicate that to your partner, it would probably take a lot of courage and to put aside your own needs for a moment and your own Like things that are unmet in the relationship, but that's actually what's needed.

Amy: 24:05

I think it's important to point out here too that if you're if you're trying to repair contempt in a relationship, then it's not, unfortunately, able to be done by one person, because if you're building that culture of appreciation just from one side, it's not going to be reciprocated unless the other person is also Invested in wanting to repair and heal the relationship.

Amy: 24:31

So it needs to be reciprocated because otherwise you're just going to be giving and giving and you just like what's the point? Because I don't get it Right. So, yeah, I feel like this is important one, because some, some, some of these things you can probably just you know focus on yourself To, to get better at like criticizing or stonewalling, but I think this contempt one is really important to understand. It takes two of you to build that culture of appreciation.

Michael: 24:54

Yeah, but it often takes one of you to initiate it. Oh yeah, and that's the hard, the hard part, and, and if it's just you listening right now, maybe just try this out, you know, maybe just try just giving one or two, you know acknowledgments through your voice of why you appreciate your partner. Yeah, we're grateful for in them, and maybe what they do or who they are, just as a person.

Amy: 25:17

Yeah, you might be surprised and you know, I think it's really important to to recognize Is it worth facing this before it's too late, like is it worth your relationship, you know, and and all the effort and the energy and the time and the memories and the history and you know your children and and your future.

Amy: 25:36

This is the question you need to sit with. If this is what you're experiencing in your relationship, then sit with that question Is it worth my effort and time to get help and support? Because I think this is something that you probably, if it's bad enough, you do need some guidance to help you to get through. But we're always here, obviously helping couples to shift this dynamic and and Get better at a relationship. So ask yourself that question.

Michael: 26:05

Yeah, and I'd actually want to invite you also, if you're not ready to take that leap, to send a message to us through our Instagram or via our website. If you just send Resource right, if you can just write that just resource, please we will actually send you through a checklist so you can identify parts of your relationship and whether you have these four things that exist in your relationship and to what degree it would. It would require both of you to sit down and just go through this little checklist, but it's going to be so helpful to to shine a light on some of the areas that might be In your blind spot of your rear view mirror and all you see is the comments.

Michael: 26:54

All you see are the nasty remarks, but really, underneath it all, there's there's deep hurt in both of you.

Amy: 27:02

Yep, that is it. I reckon he nailed it.

Michael: 27:05

All right, so did you, thanks. But I don't want to harp on this too much. I just want you to get the simple message, which is that if you, if contempt exists in your relationship, then the idea is to Basically reverse it. So give the total antithesis of exactly what contempt is, which is appreciation. So if you can practice that, then that's going to be, you're going to be miles ahead of most couples who are just sitting in a perpetual cycle of suffering. And if they've got kids and the kids actually watch it, they mimic it and you know they'll effectively replicate it. So let's just stop this In its tracks now and and get you guys on to a path of Thriving, you know, thriving again, and that's what we want for for humanity, so yeah, reach out, guys, because it's not just as simple as sometimes just shifting to Appreciation as well, especially if there's resentment and pain and hurt from the past.

Amy: 28:05

So I just wanted to, you know, finish off with that and knowing that there is help and support out there, you've just got to be brave enough to kind of take that first step and reach out. So enjoy the rest of your day or night or evening, wherever you are, and I just wanted to also Mention how grateful we are for our community. We've seen it grow really quickly over the last year or so that we've been putting out these podcasts, and we've got a really exciting year planned, haven't we? We've been getting in touch with some amazing people to bring on to our Podcasts and interview them and share their gifts and what their wisdom is as well in this space of relationships and everything in between. But, yeah, so stick around, share it. If this episode you thought was helpful, please share it with any family and friends that you think might benefit just to having a bit more knowledge. You know we can all learn more about this. So Enjoy the rest of your day and thanks for listening.

Michael: 29:00

All right, thanks, listeners you.