The Journey from Separation to Positive Co-Parenting: Insights from Holistic Family Mediators

When the foundations of a family tremble under the weight of a relationship coming undone, where do you turn? Eva and Amanda from Family Focus Mediation extend their hands to guide us through this labyrinth with empathy and expertise. As they peel back the layers of their own separations, they reveal how their personal paths led them to become beacons of support for others. This episode uncovers the heartfelt mission of mediation, emphasizing a child-centered approach that aims to soften the impact of family transitions and prioritizes the emotional well-being of the most vulnerable.

The journey of untangling intertwined lives is fraught with challenges, yet it's the silent echoes in young minds that beckon our utmost care. Eva and Amanda encourage parents to embrace clear communication and stable routines as pillars for children to lean on amidst change. We delve into the emotional and financial strains of divorce, contrasting the hefty price of litigation with the more gentle approach of mediation. As our guests share their wisdom, they inspire a vision where co-parenting becomes a dance of cooperation rather than a battle of wills, ensuring that the future for these evolving families is navigated with dignity and respect.

We part with a chorus of gratitude for the insights shared by Eva and Amanda, pondering on the importance of relationship resilience and the support systems that underpin thriving partnerships. Their stories serve as a lighthouse for those adrift in the sea of separation, illuminating the way towards calmer shores. Join us in this exploration of the transformative power of mediation, where the end of a partnership can also mean the beginning of a renewed commitment to family harmony and individual growth.

Contact Amanda and Eva here: https://www.familyfocusmediation.com.au/

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Transcript

Amy: 0:10

Where Michael and Amy your couples connection coaches. Our mission is to help couples thrive using a conscious and holistic approach. This podcast is for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

Michael: 0:37

What happens when your relationship breaks down and you've got kids involved and you don't really know the next steps. Well, amanda and Eva are the founders of Family Focus Mediation, a local service on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland. They're committed to helping all parties reach a positive outcome through mediation. Having lived experience of both of them through separation and divorce, they understand the emotional whirlwind that legality adds to the stresses of separation or divorce. They help couples navigate relationships that break down by facilitating a platform for them to communicate and come up with their own agreements about dividing up assets, parenting arrangements, both of which can be made into legally binding documents. More than this, they assist parents who are transitioning from being intimate partners to being co-parents.

Michael: 1:34

When relationships break down and can't be mended, they assist with navigating the change in communication, boundary setting, child focused thinking and future focused planning. So I know that Amy and I work on relationships and getting them to a state of thriving, but sometimes there has to be a breakdown in relationships and this episode is going to be super enlightening for anyone in a relationship, whether you're going down this path or not. Enjoy. So we have Eva and Amanda from Family Focus Mediation down in the Sunny Coast and they have an amazing holistic business which deals with mediation, and I just want to welcome both of you to the show today.

Amanda: 2:20

Thank you, thank you.

Michael: 2:22

Yeah, it's really quite an interesting space that you work in and for us, like we've had very, very limited exposure to what a mediation process would actually look like for a couple who have probably transitioned from being in a relationship to moving out of one, probably for the health of both of the individual. But I just wanted to ask you, firstly, what is it that you do and tell us a little bit about yourselves.

Amanda: 2:54

Okay, so well. I'll go first, though, amanda, and yeah, we're a recently established mediation business but, of course, been working in this space for quite a few years now and what we do is work with clients who have decided to make that separation, I guess decision and then looking at the impacts that that might have on the children where we need to go. So we're very child focused and that's really where we're coming from, that's where we sit. So, yeah, we do parenting and property in Family Focus Mediation, but our favourite is parenting, of course, because we really want to help and support parents, make this as easy as possible for their children.

Amanda: 3:44

So basically, what we are doing is helping a couple who you're a consultant we cannot continue their relationship, to formally put an end to that legally. So you can either do that by going through the courts, you can do it with a solicitor, you can do it if you can work it out between yourselves. That's fantastic and of course, that's what everybody would love to do, but it just sometimes doesn't work that way. So we assist in that space between all of those choices to help people work out and navigate the space, going forward and legally put an end to their relationship.

Amy: 4:18

Amazing. I'd love to know, like, how you came across creating this business and where that desire or need come from. If you'd like to share, maybe, eva, if you'd like to share on that bit.

Amanda: 4:28

Yeah, sure, well, I came across it as it was a lived experience for myself and I can speak for Amanda. She's been there as well. So we've both navigated that path where we've had to make decisions. I didn't go through the legal process with solicitors. We did it ourselves and it was quite amicable and that's great. But we've also seen lots of friends and lots of other people go through the process and it's higher from only and very damaging to both the couple and any kids involved and we. Well, for me the interest was to get formally qualified so that I could get into that space and assist people. My background is as a counsellor, so I guess I come from a therapeutic transitional perspective as well, really really interested in helping people emotionally deal with that as best they can Amazing.

Amy: 5:20

Yeah, well, so wealth of knowledge, that's, yeah, so important in this field, and I can imagine that you've got that from, like you said, your lived experience and that's the passion that comes behind it is why it's so important to have this service that you guys provide. So, yeah, I love that.

Michael: 5:35

Yeah, I do want to add that, also for our listeners, is that, you know, I guess we were drawn to you and what you bring, also because it feels like it's not just a business. It feels like it's not just a money making enterprise. There's something else behind it, and just hearing that there's lived experience there means that for me, there's mission behind it. You know that there's mission and buy-in from both of you that, hey, we're actually, you know we're diving into a service that is difficult, you know, and can be energetically quite draining, I'm sure. And I wanted to ask you know, both of you, what's it actually like to be in this space? There's resentment, there's anger, there's sadness. We're dealing with, like actually some trauma that might emerge from this for the children. It's actually like, what is it like for both of you to be in this space?

Michael: 6:33

I think, we can sit at a privilege, don't we? We do, we do.

Amanda: 6:37

And we do like to. I guess you know we're having clients and, as you say, they're coming to us at probably the most testing time of their life.

Amanda: 6:48

They've got so many questions that need answered and I guess, the thing that Eva and I also would like to, I guess disclose is that not everyone fits into a mediation space and we do have stringent screening and assessment to make sure that we're not causing any more harm or risk to that person.

Amanda: 7:09

So we do sit down with them. It may be the first step in their separation journey. They may come to us and they just have so many questions. So we will sit them with them for as long as they need, explore what their relationship looked like and then what it's like for them now, and then what they can see their future could look like. They don't necessarily see that or they can't see beyond the, say, conflict, the confusion, that what's going to happen to my children? But that's where we really allow them to explore that, sit in that space, feel heard and acknowledged and all those things. So, yeah, it's a wonderful place to be in. I love it and it's a joy to work with people and see what you can do, because naturally they just think that they should go straight to the court process. So, yeah, yeah.

Michael: 8:05

You know, when people are stressed, they generally are in this survival state and everything is a threat from their probably their unconscious perspective, and so it becomes just me versus you. Naturally, I think we just activate a part of our brain. You know that that is in that protective phase. And we deal with clients, don't we, babe, like all the time that are in this space, and and so that can lead sometimes to, you know, maybe decisions that they regret, or maybe that it's not communicating in ways that are healthy, but it is, it's really, it must be a process for you to also help the clients to just feel safe, you know, feel safe, and and you spoke about that they can receive some understanding and being heard. Those skill sets would come in handy, wouldn't they, for you, you know, in those times when things are starting to really escalate.

Amanda: 9:05

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think when people do come to us, they should say they're very positional, they want, they're very defensive, and I think what Amanda and I endeavour to do is uncover the interest rather than the position. What's driving that? Why do you feel that? Where is the interest in there for you, rather than just I want this or I'm not budging on that? So it's driving that instead, and trying to help them to see it, because sometimes they don't know either it's just I've been told that this is what I should have, or yeah, well, this is what happened with some friends of ours. So they tend to then reflect on what other people have done, and what we explore is, I guess you know who left the relationship, who made that decision to actually end that relationship, because everyone's at a different stage of that grief and loss process. So, normally, sitting in a space of are we going to stay together? What does this look?

Amanda: 10:04

like and then no, we're not. There's going to be one person that has stepped out and will checked out what we always say from that space, even before the other person even knows or understands what's going on. So it's about kind of, I guess, acknowledging that, letting them understand that they're never going to be on the same page initially, that they're going on that rollercoaster at two different rides and they're in two different carriages, and that's what it looks like.

Amy: 10:34

Yeah, I love that.

Amy: 10:36

I love that so much because I think we'll just hit home what you said there about.

Amy: 10:40

You know, often in relationships one person is down the track further, you know, like has checked out and has made that decision internally, so being able to kind of process that to some degree, but sometimes the other partner is completely shocked with the decision or the choice that that's been happening.

Amy: 10:55

So therefore, yeah, you're right, there's two people that are in two different, totally different places, mentally and physically probably as well, to deal with that and to grieve that. But I love that you're able to hold that space for them to recognize that even in the first place, because you think about our courts and our systems and that kind of stuff, there's no awareness or understanding or compassion that oh, someone's probably actually really hurting here and somebody's down that you know, checked out already and like I just love that. And I guess that's what was leading me to asking about what do you mean by whole list that you said you have a like a holistic approach? Can you share a little bit more about what that is and how you kind of think about that when you're dealing with your clients?

Amanda: 11:40

Oh, holistically?

Amanda: 11:42

Yes, I think, because we're not simply going through a set process where the outcome is reaching an agreement.

Amanda: 11:48

If we can just simply get people a little bit further down the track improves their communication skills, assist them to understand each other and where they're coming from, which, of course, when you're sitting face to face with somebody in a higher criminal situation, that can be quite difficult. But if we can just assist them to understand their situation for each other and for themselves a little better, that's a win, because these people are then going to communicate better and have a better outcome, regardless of whether they can come to a full agreement account, the future is going to look. At this stage, we also are able to refer clients to various services for support even prior to coming to mediation. So if they're just simply not ready to attend a mediation session and negotiate in their best interests or the best interests of their children, I mean, then let's get these people support first, get them emotionally ready. So in that sense we're holistic, that we can provide and guide them through the process with support.

Michael: 12:51

I love that Wonderful. Yeah, it's huge. It is huge. And when you think about dropping straight into that legal system from a breakup, that can be just totally soul destroying, and I mean, I've seen it before it's a massive leap into this black and white system that doesn't care about your grief, doesn't care about your emotions. There's nothing there to really there's no, like Amy said, there's no compassion there, and so you just dive into this soulless world and that's where I can see that this transition is really important.

Michael: 13:31

I did want to ask about some of our clients. I would say that a lot of them or not our clients, but maybe our followers are right on the edge and they're probably just thinking I'm pretty sure that this is over and I don't really know. Maybe they need to take the courage to take that step, to break up, but they might be just the step before where you guys are at. But they might have children too, and I wanted to speak about children and how this, how the kids are actually impacted in this situation, how it can go really bad and how it can potentially go a lot better and actually be a healthy transition to co-parenting. I wonder whether you can open up conversation around the difference between an unhealthy transition and a healthy transition to co-parenting.

Amanda: 14:29

For us? Yeah, absolutely, and it is all about that and I think with, as Eva mentioned, communication is the key. We had a chat prior to coming onto the podcast today, around being transparent with children, them being acknowledged that they didn't ask for this to happen. So how are we, as parents and adults, going to support and help our children? So studies and research and all those things have shown that children are quite resilient, but that also depends on the parents. That really needs to be them coming forward and being that, I guess, the wiser, you know, more kind of understanding person in all this and we really, I think, help the parents. See that we support them through that we.

Amanda: 15:25

I think the one thing that I say to them in my mediations is if you ought to sit down in your child when they're say 25, 30, and say how was this for you, how was our separation for you, if you can have your child say to you you and Dad did the best or you and Mum did the best you could and thank you so much, that's a far better place to be in than a child saying that was horrible, we hated it, and you know it was, yeah, a really really kind of, I guess, unsettled time.

Amanda: 15:57

So it is about being child focused. It is really putting that parents in the space of let's listen to the kids which we also can do as part of our service and acknowledge and respect them, regardless of what age they are. We are making memories for these children. They're a step of their journey of their life, so it's a matter of sometimes parents get so, I guess, taken over by their own grief, their own feelings and emotions that they can't see beyond that to those of their children and see that they are making memories for their children. How would they like their kids to remember this time when they do look back?

Amy: 16:37

like Amanda said, yeah, it's so true. I'm curious have either? Because I know, eva, you were saying that you've been through this process and you were lucky enough to kind of work through it amicably. I'm wondering have you had that same experience, amanda, as well, with your breakup, or was that different?

Amanda: 16:54

Very different, so vastly different, hence why I'm in this space now. Mine was quite conflictual and to the stage where we didn't speak to each other for years. Initially, we would do drop off to each other yes, it was out in a public space, but we wouldn't even look at each other. And now, knowing what I know as a mediator and the effects that that has on your children For me you know it's hard to look back and go, wow, I could have done that so much better. That was really not a good place for those children to be in. And understand that the children see, you know, mum and dad, they can't communicate, they don't look at each other. How horrible for a child to get out of one car and then walk over and have to hop into another car. So that's why I'm doing exactly what I'm doing now, because I don't want to ever see anyone else going through that like I did. And my children are wonderful now and we talk about these things.

Amanda: 18:01

I'm very open and honest about those things but also kind of, I guess, educating and teaching them that there is a better way to do this. There are some of the well, not so many, but there are definitely things that parents who are separating can do to help their kids Get through this process which, as Ananda said, is being transparent, being respectful enough to allow them the information, at an age appropriate level, of what's going on. Also that, yes, the kids didn't ask for this to happen. So allow them the space to grieve and to acknowledge the transition and the time that they need for that. Respect the relationship that the child has with the other parent. They're always going to see that other parent as their other parent, even if you no longer see them as your spouse.

Amy: 18:53

Yeah, there's such key points.

Michael: 18:56

And before, you spoke about having some inclusivity of the kids, you know, being involved in this process. To me, I'm thinking that's wonderful, but then there's also that other side of me that thinks, well, how much of a limitation has this child got in terms of like, how they can process this? And so I wanted to ask you, how would that look, you know, for I don't know, let's just say, a seven to 10 year old child who's involved in this, so they've got some capability of being able to see what's going on and sensing the dynamic. How would they be, you know, brought into this to have some say, I guess, in what's happening and what's unfolding?

Amanda: 19:38

So I'm a child inclusive practitioner, so trained in my previous job to do that. So that's something that I will bring to our service and happily work with children. I think it's really beneficial to sit in a room in a mediation with two parents and refer to what their child has said. So going back to what that looks like for the child or children it is. It's not sitting them at a table saying, right, what's going on? What's happening with mum and dad? Are they fighting a lot?

Amanda: 20:11

So it's not about that decision making for them, it's actually just sitting with them, asking them how school, you know what's going on for you. So they're really acknowledging their wishes and concerns and I guess one of the one of the tools that we use is three wishes and so after we've sat with a child at the end of their child inclusive practice, we do ask what are your three wishes? And sometimes they'll go. Mum and dad are back together and that's very common and you know, or you've got kids. You always can go to have kids. Like some of them will say, I would like to win lots of money and win a house and have a really fast car. You sort of can understand that a child's in a really good space when they're giving answers like that.

Amanda: 21:01

So, but when a child says I want mum and dad to be back together, I want them to stop fighting, or you know, sort of, I guess those, those answers, that's when you know that a child's really struggling and you can explore that a little bit more with them. Yeah, yeah, separation rather than dreams and hopes.

Amanda: 21:22

Yeah, yeah but we never, ever asked them to make the decisions and you're always clear in saying to them this isn't about you deciding what happens. This is about mum and dad helping support you through this. And you know I can't, I can't fix anything for you, but we're here to help and guide.

Michael: 21:44

Yeah, I think that help and guidance is going to help settle the child's nervous system. To you know, I'm imagining so in a. In essence, there is a secondary effect of as my dog shakes in the background.

Michael: 21:55

A secondary effect of that. Just having that guidance is is just probably help, you know, as a byproduct. So I think that there are some beneficial outcomes that probably happen from a smoother transition, that that intermediary sort of area that we're talking about here. That can actually be really helpful for everyone involved. So I wanted to speak a little bit about how sometimes you get and you guys would know this and have seen this especially in our generation parents staying together for the sake of the kids and I know this is a little bit outside of. You know where you're working, but I just wanted to open up the conversation between all four of us about this, because I've seen this with friends that I was really close with my teenage years and I watched their parents just stay separated but stay under the same roof and just pretend that all is okay so that the child doesn't have to experience trauma or that traumatic or what they perceive as being super traumatic. We'll just see it out until they're adults.

Amy: 23:12

And then they break up and go their separate ways, like waiting till like they're 18 and then all of a sudden, oh, thank goodness that's done, I'm out. Yeah.

Michael: 23:20

I want to just explore that conversation around the maybe the implications of that you know, of staying together in an unhealthy relationship for the benefit of what you think is the benefit of the kids.

Amanda: 23:32

And it's funny you should say that, amy, as in you know the children later on, because normally the stories you hear is we knew something was going on, we knew you weren't happy and and really I guess that's again it's it's teaching your children about relationships and that's certainly not a healthy relationship to be in. When mum and dad are avoiding each other in the home. They know okay well who goes into the kitchen at what time, so we don't have to be near each other. There's that tension. Or you know, mum and dad are sleeping in separate rooms, etc. So for a child, they see everything they. It doesn't matter what age they are, even the little ones they'll. They'll see all that. They understand so yeah.

Amanda: 24:20

And I mean how, taking in a practice like that, where you're actually teaching your children that this is normal, so mum and dad are together and they're married I'm not married, but they're together and yet they're not communicating and they're not affectionate to each other and they're not supportive of each other. Perhaps you're creating more trauma by staying together, because your children are, in essence, growing up thinking, well, that's what a relationship is and that's normal, when it's actually quite toxic.

Michael: 24:50

Absolutely yeah, and teaching them so many unhealthy traits in terms of what you should just tolerate or put up with, and and I'm, you know, maybe not speaking up when you should be, and, yeah, I totally agree, and, amy, I'm sure you agree too is that you know at what point are you going to pull the band-aid off and start to confront this, because the damage could be worse if you just continue to remain in an unhealthy relationship and and maybe it's salvageable and and maybe there's, it's just that there's a communication breakdown and a lack of understanding of each other.

Michael: 25:30

And that's when I think it is worth, you know, if you still see some hope, if both of you still see some hope in the relationship and the resentment isn't just so deep that that ship sailed, then, you know, turn towards the problem. If you both agree to do it, then find some professional help. You know, I mean it doesn't have to be with us, but look to someone that's actually that you you trust that can facilitate maybe a turning towards each other, learning new communication skills, eliminating negativity out of the household, starting to then open up to the potential of understanding what your partner is going through rather than being focused on me, me, I, the individual, and what I need and what I'm not getting from you.

Amanda: 26:19

Sorry. Amy yeah, I love to hear it when clients come in and when you're exploring, that you know the relationship and what they're. What's happened leading up to the separation is when they say that they have been to some sort of I guess counselling or relationship support, because then you know that they've actually they've tried, they've done everything they can, so they know now that this is where we are, so you know, rather than just walking in saying that's it. You know we're separating and they haven't really explored other options first.

Amy: 26:54

Yeah, I was just thinking about like how great it is to have you guys there in that space to be able to, like, if you're in that situation where you've, you know, kind of over the relationship and you know that it's probably not going to get any better, but then it's kind of like what's next, what's the next step? And you know, I guess it's it's either break up or stay together, and whether you go and seek your help elsewhere or come, I love that you're there to kind of guide them through in a in a way that feels a little bit more relaxed and not so stressful and daunting and overwhelming and like, oh gosh, you know, like I feel that's such a great area of expertise that you can help people through those moments with. Because, yeah, it's, it's kind of scary, right. You're like, oh, I can imagine, like I've never been in that situation.

Amy: 27:41

But I'm thinking of those clients who are at that point because we work with couples and then potentially, after the the three months that we work with them, they've actually realized that maybe they're not supposed to be together. But that's where we're like, oh, I wonder what's next for them, you know. But I feel that having that next step to understand that it's not so intense and full on can really help keep everything a little bit calmer and a little bit more kind of in sync than the. You know the chaos that it can cause yeah, that's great, yeah, for sure.

Michael: 28:13

So I I wanted to just maybe ask about if you knew anything in terms of, or you wanted to speak into, what are some of the ramifications of, like the mental, the physical, the financial strain that happens when someone goes through a divorce. Is there any insights that maybe are there any insights that you can offer to, you know, to our listeners around just going through a divorce and and and just the strain that that can actually cause on them?

Amanda: 28:45

Well, yes, it's immense, obviously, because I mean emotionally, it doesn't just affect one person, it affects the whole unit, it's systematic. So there's a big, big knock on effect and people, as Amanda mentioned earlier, are not at the same place, so they're not going to cope at the same rate as each other Financially, wow. Well, I mean, living in this day and age, we know how expensive everything is and suddenly you've got one family unit that's broken into two, so you've got two sets of everything with less available income to supply to. What else?

Amanda: 29:29

Well, I think for me, you know, looking at the child factor side of it, is it's also the things like how the kids' lives are going to change financially.

Amanda: 29:38

What's that going to look like? As in, you know, if they're at a particular school, are we going to be able to afford to send them to that school? And that's really difficult for kids because for them, their friendship group is what's probably going to help them get through this. So it's again not changing their lives, as I guess you know that there's no significant changes for them, that there is that structure, routine, predictability. That's what will help children get through this and thrive, and I think that's where having mediation and sitting in that space and exploring those options in a room with the other parent is they can come up with ideas of how much well, how little impact this can have on their children. And then of course, you know you work with them in the parenting side of things first. We always do that first and then move into the property side of things, where it is that division of what the financials are going to look like, etc.

Michael: 30:47

That parenting side of things is really interesting and can be tricky for us as relationship coaches because we aren't parenting experts. However, amy has done a fair bit of study in child development and man is a teacher as well at a Steiner school. She has a holistic idea of what's really sensitive for a child at different stages. But for us to actually relay, you know, what we know as being, you know, kind of a healthy, environmental upbringing or transition for kids, we can't speak into that space. So is that something that you can actually do, or is that also an area where you just ask the questions and see if you can get a consensus?

Amanda: 31:28

I think it's again mediation is really big on exploring options. It's one of those places that we could sit for hours going, ok, what's birthdays look like, what does Christmas look like, all those special occasions because they're the things as a parent that become what I guess, a fear, and it is a lot about fear what the future is going to look like, and you do sit with that fear. So it is about that exploration for the children of how again, as little impact as possible, but how can we manage that between us as parents? So, yeah, I think that I mean, I think it's very much that the parents are the experts of their children. They know their children the best and what they need and what support is going to assist them. So, working with the parents to work out what is best for their children and they know the answers it's just about coming to some arrangement of how they're going to go about that.

Amy: 32:28

Yeah, but I could imagine just speaking into that. I could imagine it would be. Some parents would have totally different viewpoints and values and what's what actually is important for their child is not important for another and you know the other partner. So having that conflict, oh gosh, I don't know how you guys do it, but I could imagine that would create, you know, a real challenge in those mediation sessions when they're so different. Because I know I've got friends that have gone through separations and they are like even the food that they eat to the, you know the bedtimes to the, you know the schools that they go to and, yeah, like this, they're just black and white. The parents. So, as much as it's nice to think that they're both want the best thing for the parent, for the children they probably do but their differences are so big to begin with, does that?

Michael: 33:16

make sense, you know yeah yeah, I couldn't.

Amy: 33:18

I couldn't imagine those sessions with those sorts of parents would be quite a challenge for you guys to work through.

Amanda: 33:23

And it's funny how that, as soon as the separation happens, that all of a sudden the things that they actually enjoy doing together with the children, and acknowledging and signing them up for their sport and all their extracurricular activities all of a sudden it's like no, you know, we're not going to do that anymore. So it's and that's where we try to step in really quick, as in, you know, if we can avoid this conflict, then your children are going to have a more successful future. Yeah. So that's that's what we'd like to think anyway.

Michael: 33:58

You know there's just doing a little, a little shift across because recent research or it was, I think it was through Money Magazine and they had found that the average cost of a divorce was around $50,000. You're going to be out of pocket just in the general. You know unpacking of of of all of these, you know elements to breaking up, but can I be a little cheeky in asking, like roughly, what kind of cost would be associated with a service like this? Do you have like a rough God?

Amanda: 34:35

Well, if you go to court, even for a reasonably simple matter, they say it can be anything up into the tens to the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and of course there's the time that's attached to that as well. These things are lengthy and often parents receive judgments that neither are happy with and might actually fit that family. So it's quite a different service to what we offer. Ours is certainly nothing like that. We're under $5,000, well and truly, and people can come back again. It's not a matter of that. You need to solve this all in one hit. You can come, you can work it out a little bit by little bit. If we can get down the path just a little bit and solve some things or work through some things, that's great. You can come back again later and we can work on the next bit.

Amy: 35:28

It doesn't want to be done, unless it's in one sitting. That's good to know. Thank you.

Michael: 35:34

This. You know, having this conversation with both of you has been wonderful, and the reason it's been really wonderful is because the listeners who are still with us right now have been dropped into the potential of what this looks like, what it sounds like, what it feels like, and you know for you to actually relay that and also maybe what it would cost is now helped. You know so many listeners to drop into that so that they can now kind of maybe relinquish some pressure around. We're holding this together and it's unhealthy and we shouldn't be together. So I want to thank you both for just speaking up about what this dynamic is like, what he's actually involved. It's certainly been really helpful for both of us as well.

Amy: 36:27

Yeah, it's kind of about like I don't know, we're in our job because we love what we do, just like you guys do, but it's always for us.

Amy: 36:36

We want to fix everyone right, we want to help everyone and we want all couples to come back together and love each other deeply and have this, you know, connected, thriving relationship and that would be our dream, but we know that's not our reality. So it does. It actually starts to impact how we feel and how when we work with couples and we see that actually maybe these guys aren't meant to be together and often they do have kids, our clients. So, yeah, it's kind of it makes me feel a little bit more at ease to know that there's services out there like this, because I haven't ever heard of anything like this, because I've never experienced anything like this. So, yeah, it's such a great like I said already today and I keep harping on it, but just a great knowing that there is someone out there that can help in a bit more of a holistic, nurturing, compassionate way than just to send them off and sort it out, you know. So.

Amy: 37:21

I guess, that's coming from my heart.

Amanda: 37:23

It's like, oh okay, great, there's people like I think my biggest, I guess, hurdle for me personally is I often invite my clients back for further mediation. It's like, okay, let's, let's just do this for a little while because I want to really help and support you through this and see how it goes. And then it's always nice to know that they've kind of got, I guess, that wraparound approach of let's then come back and then we can sit down again, go through what you've put together and see if it's working and there's no harm in doing that.

Amanda: 37:58

And so you know there might be sort of, I guess, having people constantly coming through the door again and again, but I feel for me that I've done the right thing by that couple of times, because they will be a family unit regardless. They'll always have children together, so it's really just looking and focusing on that.

Amy: 38:20

Absolutely so powerful.

Michael: 38:23

So if our listeners want to get in touch with you and find out more about your services, how would they do that?

Amanda: 38:31

So we have our website. So Family Focus Mediation so they can go online. We have a booking page on there. Please put as much or as little detail in possible and we'll give you a call Book in a time that's convenient for you. Think of Ebra and I. We've really sort of looked at how we can support people through this, which is, we're happy to call you, we're happy to do everything online, which people are pretty used to now, and because we want you to feel relaxed, we're also able to sit down face to face. We can do that as well. It just really depends. We're just open to supporting and helping people. So through our website, we do have a contact number on there that you can give us a call.

Amanda: 39:19

Give us a call, happy to have a chat, even if it's just to find out about what they might need next. There's no obligation that you must then I guess you know kind of engage in our service. It's just about those questions. I'm a big believer in knowledge and allowing people to understand what this looks like rather than I guess that sales pitch and getting them through. I want them to really feel heard and really help and support them. There's also some additional information on our website under the resources tab, so you can feel free to go and check that out for themselves, and that should hopefully answer some of their questions as well.

Michael: 40:00

Great, so that's really helpful to know that anyone around Australia can access you, as long as they've got internet, really, or even just phone.

Amy: 40:08

Yeah, absolutely.

Michael: 40:10

Yeah, so that's wonderful. Even though you're based in the Sunshine Coast, yeah, they can access you. So thank you so much to both of you for coming on our show. We know that our listeners would have gained a lot from this and I want to thank you and I look forward to, you know, even working in collaboration with both of you in the future and helping. So obviously, we're helping the couples to move, hopefully, to a place of thriving, but if things do break down, then there is a net. There's a safety net there to help that transition. So, thank you once again and, yeah, we hope you have a wonderful rest of the day.

Amanda: 40:52

Thank you, mark, thank you, thank you very much.