Thrive Again - Your relationship podcast

A Man's Blueprint for Relationship Success: A Conversation with Kyle Levier

• Michael & Amy • Season 1 • Episode 37

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Discover the art of transforming unconscious relationship patterns with our guest Kyle Levier, a former construction worker who is now a communication and relationship coach. 

As a man, who is committed to self awareness, freedom and liberation, Kyle has gained deep inner-standings through his spiritual perspectives and communication. Kyle's relationships are deepening and become more fulfilling and he is now able to offer his knowledge through lived experiences and active development, to support and mentor others. Through communication workshops and his service ‘Conversations with Kyle’ he supports men, women and couples, seeking depth and connection in their lives.

In this episode, Kyle offers a compelling narrative about his career shift from construction to client liaison work, which honed his communication skills and led him to develop the service "Conversations with Kyle." You'll gain insights into the importance of conscious communication and empathetic engagement, especially when repetitive relationship issues signal deeper concerns.

Ever wondered how masculine and feminine energies affect your relationship? Kyle sheds light on the role of alcohol as a crutch for dealing with inadequacy and why men might feel more comfortable with women displaying masculine traits. This episode underscores the significance of self-awareness and integrating one's feminine side to achieve a balanced and healthy partnership. We also unpack how women adopting masculine traits can impact relational dynamics and why embracing feminine energy is crucial for men.

Prepare to be moved by Kyle's personal experiences, as he recounts his journey of healing from destructive relationship patterns. From the emotional distance in his long-term relationship to the transformative power of active listening, Kyle's stories are a testament to personal growth and emotional intelligence. We cover essential topics like the value of emotional capacity in men, the importance of self-reflection, and the role of accountability in maintaining healthy relationships. Tune in for invaluable lessons on fostering conscious and supportive relationships.

Find Kyle:
www.conversationswithkyle.com.au
https://www.facebook.com/conversationswithkyle

Books mentioned:
The way of the superior Man: David Deida
King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Douglas Gillette and Robert Moore

Thankyou for listening, if you liked it, please remember to subscribe.

Join our Private "Thriving relationships - Deepening connection to self and others" community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1107209283451758/

Website: https://michaelandamy.com.au/

Join our free 7 day relationship challenge: https://michaelandamy.com.au/free-relationship-challenge

If you would like to book in a private discovery call with us, here is the link: https://michaelandamy.com.au/call

Speaker 1:

if she's repeating the same thing. It may be annoying to hear, but there's a reason she's saying it again, because she doesn't feel heard or you've done nothing about it. And those things there like each man's going to have his own in his relationship or there may be some commonalities. That's the warning sign. That's like the low oil light on your favourite car One, two, three, four.

Speaker 2:

We're Michael and Amy, your Couples Connection Coaches. Our mission is to help couples thrive using a conscious and holistic approach. This podcast is for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

Speaker 3:

All right, we're super blessed and honored to have a good friend of mine now, kyle, devia onto the podcast this morning and I think Kyle has just landed into our lives just recently and in such a beautiful way and I think a lot of our approaches in terms of how we approach communication and relationships we definitely have so many overlaps here.

Speaker 3:

Reason but also to really help up level men in relationships in general and just helping them to maybe bring themselves to a better place within their relationships so they can actually be better for themselves as individuals as well and for their families if they have them. So kyle actually approached me in well, it must must have been about a couple of months ago now and really just it was an interesting interaction where he'd actually just called me up and said I'm feeling like I really need to or want to connect with you in some way and I'm not sure how. And, long story short, we ended up dropping into these wonderful conversations where Kyle has just beautifully held the space for me actually personally to up level the way that that I'm turning up in my relationship and for myself as well. So he's graciously honored me some one-on-one sessions, which has been profound so far and we'll continue to do some of those.

Speaker 1:

So welcome to the show, kyle. Thanks, mick. That's quite an opening, yeah, feeling a lot of gratitude and humility in what you've just shared, so thanks.

Speaker 3:

It's my pleasure and I'm looking forward to diving into some really key topics that are coming up, you know, for us in our world and working with relationships and, yeah, really looking to unfold some aspects in relationships there. But I firstly just wanted to see if you can introduce yourself to the listeners and just tell us a little bit about yourself and what it is that you're launching into at the moment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, yeah, thanks, mick. So a little bit about myself and what I'm launching into. It's an ongoing discovery, so I feel like there's a bit of a vision and I'm laying pavers in front of myself as I go, so to speak. Um a little bit about myself yeah, I grew up in suburban Canberra um, mainstream, uh, kind of conditioning, and um, yeah, I went through the construction industry and um, um, yeah, I went through the construction industry and um, I don't know, I won't go too far into the past, but particularly the relationship my relationship history was was very much like um, how could I say it's? It's kind of like automated it was.

Speaker 1:

It was like unconscious. I just kind of rolled with it. I didn't really have any conversations about what it was or the direction it was taking, or I never really looked at the relationship as an entity of its own. I just kind of was with a woman and that was it, and we figured it out and it was all kind of moment to moment. Yeah, it's really interesting to reflect back on that and, um, yeah, I had a couple of relationships earlier on as a younger man, like 18 to 21 and early 20s, but, yeah, the most significant one was in my late 20s. So that was how I showed up in relationship.

Speaker 1:

Um, like I said, worked in the construction industry and had, um, yeah, quite a fulfilling life from that industry. Then I got presented with a job as a client liaise and that's when things started to change and that was actually off the back of I didn't talk about that back of an injury that took me out of the construction industry and took me to market gardening. That was his own journey. And then from then on, yeah, I went into this new opportunity of a client liaise, where communication was really important and coming from the construction industry and working on my own in the garden and having this kind of autonomous, unconscious style of relating with a woman.

Speaker 1:

It was a real edge for me to learn how to communicate and be empathetic and compassionate with people who were making insurance claims on their houses and getting five and six-figure repairs done on their homes and I was in the middle of them and builders and insurance companies. So that was a great opportunity that really activated this desire and interest in how I'm communicating and how the world's responding to how I communicate. And up until then it was unconscious, literally, and from then on I pursued, uh, different kind of communication skills and modalities and, um, yeah, and that long-term relationship I was in did end and I can talk a little bit more specifically about that. But my journey of communication and relationships have now got me into a place where I'm offering a service which is my service conversations with Kyle, and it's fairly broad intentionally, but I do offer space for, um, exploring relationship, um and stuff with men.

Speaker 1:

As you know, mick, personally so that's where I'm at now, um, and that's a little bit of a yeah, a little bit of a history on that, how I've got to where I'm at yeah, thank you.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I appreciate that insight and I'm sure a lot some of the listeners can really, you know, vibe with your story a little bit, you know, going from maybe some sort of I guess area of work and then being pulled out of it and being thrust into a totally new environment and then having to, you know, find your feet, so to speak, in there and then maybe working out that hang on. This is maybe something that kind of feels good, but it can also help me and my life and maybe eventually, other people. So I do love the way that that's moved. And there was an interesting thing that you said there, which was the way that I was communicating was largely unconscious, or something like that.

Speaker 3:

The way that I was communicating was largely unconscious or something like that. I'm wondering if maybe you could speak a little bit about and we're going to go into your story a little bit more but I wanted to firstly see if you could speak a little bit about whether you think sometimes us as human beings drop into relationships unconsciously.

Speaker 1:

And that ends up maybe causing problems. Yeah, that one that really hits for me. Um, yeah, going into relationships unconsciously, because I've definitely experienced that when I look back. Yeah, yeah, that's really true for me and I had to learn from the relationships I had and co-created that. I continued to do it even as a grown man, like post-long-term relationship and then a new relationship as a middle-aged man, and the difference in going into a relationship consciously and the contrast in that. So, yeah, I guess, yeah, there's a romantic part of me that would just fall into a relationship and would be attracted physically to a woman and then there would be like an emotional or intellectual attraction that would follow and it would be enough for me to then be interested in a relationship.

Speaker 1:

But I never really two things have had an understanding on who I was and what I was bringing on who I was and what I was bringing and what I wasn't, and, um, and what I was looking for and how to kind of gauge that, how to find that, how to discuss that, how to explore that with a potential partner and have open conversations about. I guess I use the analogy of a road trip, like we could just get in a car. Meet, say, me and a woman. We get in a car and it's like hey, let's go on a road trip and there's no map, there's no discussions, there's no understanding of where it's going to go, which direction to go. We just get in the car and that direction and and clarity doesn't come until there's conflict. And then it's a taking, like a checking in. They're going yeah, what's happening here? How did we get here? Why? Why are we in mount isa with no money and no fuel? Um, so yeah, I think that's yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think that's the best way I can explain that unconscious thing for me. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well explained. And when you were speaking then I was thinking to some unconsciousness that I guess that was happening in my life and in my early relationships and a lot of it was. Now I can look back and I can see that I was. I guess I had such a low self-esteem and I really was. In effect, I was grasping at love, I was grasping at relationship and seeing if I could get satiated by, you know, another woman's love, you know, and her touch, and I just remember this, particularly in my later teenage years, and just you know that unconsciousness that's happening. I think that sometimes can be fueled by our inadequacies, you know and that maybe lead to to trouble in relationships.

Speaker 3:

I wonder what you, whether you think that that that's a pertinent issue, because I know that for some of our listeners, they find themselves in repeated relationships that are unhealthy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a couple things pinging for me and I have the luxury of the video, but I can see you guys smirking and, yeah, I definitely relate to you there, mick and um, I'm tipping my head down in humility. Maybe there's a touch of shame about my past, but I feel like for me, I used alcohol as an entry point to meet a woman. Oh yeah, so I didn't have, I didn't have the confidence, and it's more, not just confidence. I think the confidence comes from knowing myself now. So, um, you know, yes, a bit of unsolicited advice any young man get to get to know yourself before you embark on on any exploration with another. Um, I'll leave it there, but yeah, I, um, I didn't really know what I was offering, I didn't really know what I had, and so I would use alcohol to connect with women and it may be like, uh, briefly and sexually, or even exploring, you know, a relationship with a woman and I would need alcohol on, you know, some occasions just to break that stuff, that that nervousness down, and approach it with the joker and the the jolly and that kind of stuff. And it was sincere. Um, yeah, that was definitely an entry point. There. There was something else that came up to. Yeah, you talked. You talked about inadequacy. That was it, thank you.

Speaker 1:

The inadequacy that I didn't look at and didn't know about for a long time was I had no capacity to actually interact and embrace and adore strong feminine energy.

Speaker 1:

And looking back now and that's where I kind of dip my head in shame a little bit is I would. I would pursue women that that had like masculine attributes in the way of their hobbies and activities, because that was easy for me to relate with and I found like these deeply beautiful feminine women kind of a little bit off-putting because I didn't know how to interact with them. So I would go for the first long-term partner I had at the time we were into fishing and surfing and all these activities that I could relate to comfortably as a male and I would deny and shut down the feminine. And since then and now I've learned that a lot of that was actually not integrating my own feminine. So I couldn't interact with hers and I rejected it or shut it down when it popped its head up because it was too much for me to deal with. So that was a big one. Um, yeah, definitely impacted my relationships or my capacity to interact with a woman.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so much in that, and I'm thinking about Amy and I and how we first hooked up and, yeah, it was an alcohol-fuelled night. Like both of us were. You know under the influence we met each other. We were nightclubbing. You know the influence we met each other.

Speaker 3:

We were night clubbing, you know, back in the days before tinder and um, and you know we would dance and we're laughing, everything else, and the masculine qualities that you're speaking about. I think amy held some of those too. You know, didn't you, babe? Like there was, there was some definitely a level of independence that you had that I was attracted to. It was also she was an avid skydiver as well. So you know, amongst the sport where it's like heavily impacted by mostly men were dominating that sport, right. So to me I was like whoa, okay, cool and really, you know, attracted to that, but what you're talking about is super interesting. You know, attracted to that, but what you're talking about is super interesting. You know, for me as well. Would you agree, vama?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I haven't really, I guess, thought of it from that perspective before either. I'm like, oh yeah, of course, and I guess as a you know, young adult, early 20s, you kind of almost I'm sure a lot of listeners can relate to this, particularly the women out there that kind of needed to put on this more masculine quality to attract the men, to be attracted to them because, like I'm just reflecting on, most of my friends are all that way too. You know we're into more like hobbies and the things like you mentioned basketball, and you know we're into more like the hobbies and the things like you mentioned basketball, and you know surfing and all those sorts of skill and traits.

Speaker 2:

But but yeah, because I felt like if we weren't like that, then I don't. I find it would almost be so difficult to find a partner, or boyfriend, you know because we couldn't relate, they couldn't relate to us, we couldn't relate to them.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, it's really interesting, interesting. Obviously, now the awareness is a bit more mature and a bit more depth and understanding. It makes sense why the man is probably kind of repelled from too much of the feminine traits because, like you said, the men didn't have the capacity to hold that for the woman. So, yeah, that's an interesting journey and I'd love to kind of explore, Kyle, like what's your own personal journey in relationships that have led you to kind of, I guess, find this deeper connection within yourself.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, firstly, it's nice to hear your perspective on that and you referenced that. A lot of your friends and yourself are very similar to that. I I just want to touch on that before the question of my journey in relationships. Um, yeah, this is something that I look at now and I feel like it's an adjustment that women reluctantly make to be attractive to a man. And, um, kind of blending my answer, because it's easy for a man and I feel like I mentioned it before, it's because I hadn't integrated my own feminine energies and that might sound a little bit weird to some listeners and some men, and it certainly doesn't have any inkling of weakness. It's the full expression of a man, with his masculine and feminine attributes in check and in their healthy form. And you know, just to touch on men, that may be, you know, freaking out a bit about this the, the feminine energy. What what I'm referring to is more about creativity and being able to flow and surrender and relinquish control, and that's just. I think that's enough on that. So that's what I'm referring to. So, for my creative outlet, it's playing guitar and singing and expressing myself through music and, yeah, the flow is just surrendering to the subtleties of life that for a long time I was very rigid on and controlling and rejected so much. So, yeah, back to your question. Yeah, and again, it was really nice to hear your perspective. Thank you, you're welcome. Yeah, I think that offers a lot of insight for everybody.

Speaker 1:

So my relationship was a long-term relationship, the one I kind of use as a reference point for me in relationship as a man and the man that I was showing up as. And yeah, there's that piece that I like to share with people to give a real clear understanding of where I was at as a man in relationship. And I'd been in this relationship about six or seven years. It always had some level of distance, physically and geographically for safety, not too committed, not too close, a little bit of avoidance stuff going on from both of us and then this kind of transient, nomadic lifestyle that we had as well, um, but we ended up co-habitating together and that was really confronting and really brought out a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1:

The stuff I'm referring to is unconscious patterns that I inherited as a child and they were very dysfunctional and and hurtful and unpleasant and I couldn't see them because for me that was just my oh, I could justify why I was behaving that way? Because I felt whatever, so I could justify it, until it got pointed out to me by my partner at the time and it kind of slapped me in the forehead because I had totally rejected and resented that behaviour from one of the caregivers that I experienced it from. So that was really confronting for me, that the thing I'd rejected in another I was perpetrating. That was a big one. That really helped me check in with how I was showing up.

Speaker 1:

But it really hit home and to give listeners an understanding of how I was showing up is the anecdote when I was away. We were on a holiday, we'd been together about six or seven years, I think, and we're off in Indonesia on this beautiful island, and it was just such a peaceful, sound setting and my partner woke up that morning and I could just tell she was off and the only way that I would typically deal with emotional distress in a woman was frustration and that was the only emotion that would come up. I couldn't really tap into compassion, I couldn't tap into empathy, it was just frustration and in my head, it's like what the hell's wrong now?

Speaker 1:

What's wrong this time? Why are you ruining the party In my head? Kind of attitude. You know I couldn't deal with her emotional expression and, yeah, I feel for her and the emotion comes up every time I share this and she sat nervously and said I want to share something with you. And I said, okay, you know she probably could feel my tension of frustration and it's still saddening to talk about. But she said, yeah, I want a deeper connection. And and my response at the time was what the hell are you talking about? And um, yeah, I have to live with that because I said it and that's the truth of how I was.

Speaker 1:

And each time I talk about that story it reminds me of the, the dysfunction of frustration and unconscious anger towards a woman in an emotional state, essentially emotional safety, and my incapacity to host that for her, and that's a prime example.

Speaker 1:

Needless to say, that relationship only lasted another year or two and, um, yeah, it fractured and then ultimately ended. That was really painful and I had the fortune of her and I staying friends and staying in contact, I think because we'd been together for such a long time, but the separation came because we both agreed that we were doing more harm and inflicting more pain than good or love, and it was a really amicable separation that looked like we came back from another overseas trip. We were staying at some of our accommodation supplied by her work and we had dinner together and we spent the night together and then the next day a mate come and pick me up and I left a lot of sadness coming up and, um, yeah, it was really beautiful, but uh, wow, it's really strong yeah, thank you for being so raw and real, because it's obviously shows how much growth and change and evolution you've gone through to get to this point.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, I can see that it meant a lot to you. What means a lot? Yeah?

Speaker 1:

yeah, yeah, totally, and so, yeah, back to your question. Thank you for jumping in there, amy, little life raft, yeah, so, um, yeah, that's my sadness coming up for sure. And that relationship ended and that was probably one of the most pivotal points of my life as a man and a man in relationship, because as time went and I knew that if I didn't change, it was highly likely I would create the same kind of relationship and I had the fortune it endured for so long and she tolerated me for so long and I think that was some of the work she took away and we remained friends and she actually helped me and mentored me in my next relationship. Wow, yeah, that's when I discovered the teachings of Dr Robert Moore, king Warrior, magician, lover, and David Data Kimonami, and I just knew that from that despair and pain in that heartbreak, the only way out for me was action and, for a metaphor, like I slowly had to rebuild myself because if I didn't I was going to just disintegrate.

Speaker 1:

Um, and yeah, I ended up in some pretty you know, pretty low place, but yeah, I got myself out of there by action and understanding there's things I can do that are going to help me interact with the world in a different way. So I was kind of invigorated by that potential of what could come now that I had awareness around my dysfunction and if I tended to that. So that was exciting. And after a while I started having amazing conversations with women. Because I was just this I had this thirst for knowledge around women, because I'm like what I've done and how I impacted that woman I have to own and I have to live with without shame, as motivation to do better.

Speaker 1:

Wow, yeah yeah, that was. That was massive for me. And um, there's a little anecdote on the back of that where I hadn't seen this woman um, I'll say her name, nat and I hadn't seen her for a while. But we caught up and I remember I had this epiphany as a man and she was just, she was just loving the humor and I was like all those times you said you're not listening to me, l just listen and stop trying to fix me. I get it. I just had to listen and my life would have been so much easier because I didn't have to find solutions for you. She's laughing, right. She's like, yes, that is exactly it, and I'm like it was so much work to fix your problem.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm sure there's so many people can relate to that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah she's like it's the last thing I wanted. She's like, just listen and I'm like I get it. So, yeah, we had a good laugh about it because there was pain underneath a hundred percent, but there was. There was no need to revisit the pain. It was just like yeah, that that's what happened, and I think she there's a little bit of admiration from her maybe it's like okay, well, he got it in the end. It didn't happen with me but he got it. Well done.

Speaker 2:

Whatever, yeah, oh, there's so much to that story that I kind of want to dive into just a little bit more because I think it would be really helpful for the listeners. If that's okay, Kyle, because ultimately I think what you've gone through in that experience with Nat it's so profound that a lot of our listeners could probably relate in so many different ways.

Speaker 3:

But what I'm?

Speaker 2:

noticing is potentially the couples that we work with. They almost get stuck in that they almost don't see. I guess going from the despair to action like you did, like taking that action and actually going right, I guess going from the despair to action like you did, like taking that action and actually going right.

Speaker 2:

I need to change this. But they almost can't get out of their own way to be able to make the change. So I hear a lot of women that come to us are just like you know, he just doesn't get it. You know, like he just won't listen, he won't get that deeper connection. Like he just won't listen, he won't get that deeper connection. How can I Particularly I'm more kind of leaning towards the couples that are married, that are in this like deep connected relationship, maybe even have children, you know, in that kind of so much more at play here. So I'm curious to know, like I guess, unless you've got a couple of words of wisdom, I think your story is amazing. But what would you say to both the women out there that are in relationships where they kind of feel like they can't get that deeper connection? Maybe some guidance to them and then maybe, if it feels okay to speak into something that the man could take away from this as well, and this learning and this lesson in this lesson. So there's two parts to that.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, okay, yeah, I feel like. Yeah you're asking for. Yeah, like a response to the women that are asking or yearning for this and the men that may be receiving it exactly okay, so for the women, I'm just going to put it really bluntly just leave.

Speaker 1:

But the reason I say that with humour is because I feel, and for me and other men that I've worked with and sit with, it's excruciating pain that a man typically responds to and that's what happened for me. The relationship ended. I went through this deep despair. I was confronted with how I was showing up in that relationship and a lot of self-flagellation. I really beat myself up and I felt a lot of pain and guilt and shame and some unhealthy shame.

Speaker 1:

But that was the catalyst and so I don't literally mean to the women out there just leave. What I'm referring to is it's and I say this to men don't wait for the heartache, don't wait for the breakup, because if she's speaking to you now, now is the time because otherwise men are often bewildered 12 months later I don't know why she's left. I can't believe this. But she's only left now. Physically she's checked out like six, eight, twelve months prior, yeah, emotionally, yeah, and this is what hurts a man. It's like I can't feel her love. She's resentful and spiteful and snappy at me. What have I done wrong for the men listen and to cut, cut some slack on men and myself. I don't remember anyone ever pitching to me or pushing me to learn about communication. I don't remember about it anywhere in curriculum. A lot of it was about expression and I've had to develop these things about communication and compassion and empathy as a grown man, middle-aged man, and that deep listening or active listening or it's getting a lot of airplay now, mick, you're great at it.

Speaker 1:

You know I love our conversations, amy, you're great at it too. It's basically parking my own experience just to try and capture what's happening. So my situation with cat and I put all my stuff aside and my spiritual practices have helped me with this a lot more than technical skills. It's like just seeing her for a woman, trying to understand. Okay, this interaction is causing her pain. I care, care about her, I love her. I need to explore that pain with her instead of being defensive and we both said it, mick instead of feeling inadequate. Park that this is not about me, this is not about my fears. This is about her pain.

Speaker 1:

I'm saying pain, but I mean like discomfort or whatever. It's emotional pain. There's distress, something going on. She wants to talk about something you know, but want to talk about something happened four weeks ago. So what? Yeah, for her it's present. So for the men, I would say explore what it is to be fully present and and explore some listening skills, particularly in those situations that require emotional safety. Yeah, amazing. In two words, it's emotional intelligence and there's plenty of books on it. Um, but, yeah, that inverted commas gets a lot of airplay, holding space. It's literal though it's that deep presence from a man that a woman can surrender to and feel safe to express whatever's going on. And in my judgment, that strength in a man is far more admirable than any weights or any mountains or I owe stats it's like. For me that's a true measure of a man's strength is his emotional capacity and how he can create emotional safety for his woman in relationship.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, thank you, and I agree so strongly with that and I also have experienced the same thing, you know very similar in in terms of my emotional unavailability. You know in in past relationships and also in the early parts of this relationship as well, my reactivity just led me to the exact thing frustration still does. Still does, yeah.

Speaker 3:

However, I can check myself very quickly and I can call myself out and then I can quickly repair what has been done, whereas in the past, not only would I react unconsciously based on whatever my inadequacies, my fears, my child, whatever it is I would not have the, I would not step into the responsibility actually to look at myself that maybe it's me, maybe I'm the source, or at least 50% of the source, of this disconnect that we have together, and maybe the solution isn't to just get rid of this relationship and then move on to another one, and then that one's going to be the right one for me, and this one's just not the right puzzle, a piece of the puzzle that fits in with me.

Speaker 3:

And so I I think responsibility, you know, and and is is one of the the first parts. And then, and you just said it, presence. Right, where does a man actually hold that as a key value? Where are you taught, like from you know, like there's, I think, in past generations, that there has just been a multi-generational gap in terms of valuing presence and tuning into our heart, because that, in a lot of eyes of men, is so far from being masculine. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You know, and being masculine is, you know, in a lot of people's eyes is how you describe some of the traits you know being strong, climbing the mountain, being the protector, being the provider, doing all the things and yet six months, 12 months down the track, when she's been bickering, moaning, whinging, whining at you and you're just getting sick of it. It's getting louder and louder, so your reactions get louder and louder.

Speaker 3:

You don't really see that, actually, presence is one thing that I'm missing right now, you know and that's the thing that she wants is presence and personal responsibility, and wants to see you in your power yeah, yeah yeah, that's a.

Speaker 1:

That's a beautiful share, mick and um, you've captured a lot that I resonate with in that. Um, yeah, there's a power element. There's a really key word that I don't know if listeners have caught on to, but you also said repair, and that's something I've also had to learn as a grown man is okay. So conflict comes. That's the reality of a relationship with another. Of course it's going to come in an intimate romantic relationship. Of course it's going to come in an intimate romantic relationship.

Speaker 1:

So something I've had to actively learn very recently is a repair process post-conflict, and this has helped me grow a lot more and it's helped me tend to conflict at the other end as well, because there's a repair process. So if I reduce the intensity of the conflict, the repair process is much less. It's much, it requires less, and you're talking about I can't remember what you said, but it activated the response in me of men love to fix women's emotions and things. Men love fixing things. There's a lot of energy there and I don't want to. I want to make this clear too. I'm not rejecting any of the provider stuff and the climbing the mountains and if you want to get into martial arts, I'm not rejecting that, I'm like, yeah, keep that.

Speaker 5:

But if you're struggling with your partner and pointing out problems in her, ironically, the advice we offer others is the advice we need ourselves.

Speaker 1:

So if I'm trying to fix the problems that I see in my partner for me now, I'm developing this process like what in that is part of me, what in that is what I do, and checking in with this reflective nature that's in relationship, because if I have this yearning to fix, there's plenty for me to work on any day of the week and yeah, and then we bring together that provider.

Speaker 1:

You know, aspect of men, keep that and my motivation is based on in me, owning my experience and showing up better.

Speaker 1:

For a man, my motivation is the more complete and honorable and present I am as a man, the more likely it is I'm actually going to get what I want and need out of a relationship.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and the number one thing for me is support, and I've learned to own that and learn to recognize that, and I learn from dysfunctional ways when I don't feel supported. How I interact and what I do it's really, really messy, it's really sloppy, it's chaotic, it's dysfunctional and it creates disorder. So it's this penny drop and it's like wow, if I stay in my own lane and learn how to offer emotional safety and learn how to support this woman and still be me and still embark on all these crusades and endeavours that I desire, that make me me, then I'm going to co-create a relationship as a third entity that supports both of us, because I believe that there is so much reflection and mirroring in a relationship. What I deposit I'll get back, and whether it's support and love or criticism, problem solving, complaining. So I've got a choice now. What am I depositing into the relationship? That.

Speaker 1:

That's my motivation.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, perfect. And there's a quote that a lot of blokes would know and that quote is happy wife, happy life, right. And I really want to debunk that right now, and you've helped me to do that, you've helped us to do that a little bit by adding I wouldn't say it's a little addendum, but it was kind of, and be me still be me.

Speaker 3:

And I want to just see if you can elaborate on why that's actually important, as opposed to giving yourself up for your partner to make her or him happy, you know, and then you'll get all the love, and then you'll get everything that you ever desired. Can you just speak, maybe into the the part or that part, and especially about um? You know why it's important to to maintain self yeah, it's.

Speaker 1:

It's a really good question, mick. Um, why is it important to maintain self? And um, yeah, I guess my desire here is some input from you, amy, from a woman's perspective. Once I've um shared my perspective, I'm open to anything that you have to say. I guess, to be really honest, me discovering my own truth is still very present and been a very recent endeavour.

Speaker 1:

The motivation behind that is if I know my own truth, it doesn't really matter what that truth is. If it's my truth and I honour that consistently and peacefully, my partner will subconsciously trust me at a foundational level because she knows he knows his truth, he's willing to speak it, he's willing to honor it and he'll do that time and time again and that signals to her I can trust him because he trusts himself. And I've sat with men and you you may have recognised this too, mick where some men reluctantly just do what maybe the partner wants. Or some men do it unconsciously and just they're boundaryless, they just do whatever she wants. And then some guys may do it just to make her happy. If you're doing something just to make someone else happy and it's not your truth, there's an opportunity to check in with that, because if it's just to make them happy to task that.

Speaker 1:

What's going on deeper? And it's, as I think, as a man's work and I got a lot of this out of way of the superior man discerning about what my truth is and living that and and and discerning between when I'm being tested, my integrity is being tested, my honor is being tested, and it could be um, how could I say this? It's like a bait. But this is all unconscious. But there's, there's a deep yearning for a woman to feel that man's truth they talk about. You know the shiva energy. Different, you could party down to it, but she wants to feel that man's truth. But it comes from me knowing why. Because she'll want to wobble that, she'll want to bump that and test me time and time again. It's endless. But if she feels it, it's like I can trust this man because he's not going to just do what I say sorry, karl yeah, I just wanted to.

Speaker 1:

I want to clarify this is not about arrogance. This is peaceful truth. So there's a communication piece on the back of it, but the key is knowing one's truth of who I truly am, what I'm truly capable of and what I'm not, and being humble with that and maintaining it with consistency.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that, kyle. There's so much in this conversation that's been so deep and so, I guess, important to highlight and to bring out to the listeners as well, because most of our listeners, I'm assuming, are around kind of similar ages to us. Most of them have probably had children and, in that space of like, ready to deepen their connection now, ready for this next sort of step that we're speaking into. But I just want to reflect back on what you were saying about a man like knowing their truth and knowing themselves. Like women you know, we're so intuitive Women are so intuitive.

Speaker 2:

I see it in all of the couples that we work with, like there's women who's got this amazing depth of intuition and knowledge and deeper seeing behind the levels right, and this is what popped into my mind when you were speaking. It's kind of like the women can see if it's a man or a boy underneath it all, and there's so many women yearning for their partners who are not men yet to be men you know they're still in that childish boy.

Speaker 2:

You know, happy wife, happy life. You know, don't just leave me out of it. You know all that kind of stuff, like they just kind of want to just separate themselves, disconnect ultimately from the relationship, but the woman's there kind of going, come on like when are you going to level up? When are you? Going to come and play the adult game with me.

Speaker 2:

You know, and that is so true, is when a when a woman can see their man, knowing themselves and um the trust that they see in themselves, then it just it's like the woman can melt, like they completely surrender, they can let down their guard because they know that they're held and they're safe. But this is why I see a lot of anxious women out there. There's a lot of anxious women just going what's going on with me and like probably busy with kids and all of the stuff, and their man is really not there to hold them and support them in the way that they they're needing.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, I'm seeing we see a lot of this in relationship work, but I love that the points that you came out with. Something that our listeners can take away is learning communication right, learning how to be compassionate, learning how to empathise, actually learning that it's not always needing to fix a problem you know, like just listen, just hold that space.

Speaker 2:

So if there's men out there that are kind of like shit maybe this is you're speaking with me here, You're speaking to, this is resonating Then I'm feeling that a really powerful practice would be, yeah, to go and do some research, learn some things about being present, deeply present, with your woman 100%.

Speaker 1:

Is it okay if I do share? I feel like there's power in talk, but I'm with you.

Speaker 1:

It's like getting clear on the call to action yeah for me as a man and I'd love your input on this one, mick getting to know my truth has been a long journey and it's from different kind of teachers. I mentioned a few reading about Dr Robert Moore's stuff King Warrior, magician, lover, david Data very spiritual man, amazing in the intimate world and then I learned some stuff around female anatomy that changed everything for me. So I basically learned to upskill myself as a man at a late age. For any men that are kind of you know there can be a little ping with the words you've used there, amy. Like you know, they're kind of showing up as a boy and she wants a man and it's like well, I am a man and there's plenty of people getting a lot of time on social media about what a man should be.

Speaker 1:

I want to reassure men that are listening to this and it's been my own journey to take a minute to consider that in the west this is to level everything. So there's nothing wrong with any man. You, you're not broken. In the West there is a total absence of any rite of passage for young men, and do some research on any Indigenous culture. They have rites of passage where the boy now becomes a man and it's very, very distinct. And for the men listening, take a few minutes to think about where your rite of passage was in your life and if it's not distinct, that that's highly likely why there are still these boy traits in your man. It's not your fault, it's not a problem. I'm not scapegoating anyone here, but I'm saying in the west, societally speaking, there is no right of passage. So for any man that this is ringing true for and it's like, okay, well, what do I do, my advice would be to start looking for some kind of inverted commas, men's training. Do your research. There's all different flavors on the market at the moment.

Speaker 1:

But that for me was the closest I had for a rite of passage, where I got deep support by men to help me understand healthy attributes of masculinity and the things I needed to let go of, whether it was trauma or dysfunction and things like that, and it was explored with men in a traditional sense of every rite of passage was explored with men in a traditional sense of every rite of passage. So I'd say that to relinquish any shame or guilt that men may have. And it's like I don't even know what she's asking of me. I've been there. I'm like what the hell are you talking about? Deeper connection and I own that and I just want to reassure men. There is something available. Just do your research, mick. I'm sure you've got things you could suggest to your clients, but that's the missing piece. That's what will deal with any shame or guilt that may be coming up for men listening.

Speaker 3:

It's not your fault, it's not your problem problem, but it is your responsibility yeah, yeah for sure and yeah, thank you for sharing that because it gives it does give men an idea of where the gaps possibly are and um, and definitely was the case for me.

Speaker 3:

You know there was no initiation process and I would say that the only rites of passage process in the West that happen are unconscious and they're mostly like having your first beer or getting your first root or you know something like that which is a high five from dad or something, and it's really it's not helping you to become an integrated man and it takes courage to face your own demons.

Speaker 3:

You know it takes courage to turn up, be you, you know, to a gathering of men even and I've been to a couple or a few of these I've hosted men's circles, you know. For a couple of men even, and and I've been to to a couple or a few of these I've hosted men's circles, you know for a couple of years and I know how confronting this can be for men and for a lot of men they don't trust.

Speaker 3:

they don't trust other men and yeah and I see you raising your hand there and I feel the same I still have issues around safety, being able to open up a little bit more when men are around. We are going to probably close off this conversation shortly, but I just want to say that what you've provided for me personally is safety. You know, is that ability for me to kind of just speak my truth and where I'm at currently and it's a good example, I think, for other men If you feel comfortable with another man like and just being feeling safe, I think everyone should understand what feeling safe, you know, is like.

Speaker 3:

And feeling safe is. I feel like I can open up to you a little bit more and tell you maybe some problems that might actually encompass some shame, or maybe some issues around my relationship or maybe I'm not being a good enough dad right now and these topics that are a little bit deeper than the average pub talk. If you find a healthy fella who is willing to listen, then really tune into that and pay attention to that, because if you can find healthy, integrated men to be around, then you're not having to model the old model, which is unhealthy in a lot of ways.

Speaker 3:

And so I do want to, I do really want to close this out with maybe just asking you, Kyle, finally, just, I guess, just a question about, I guess, about how men can really take the leap. If there's something that you can you can offer so that they don't wait until the moment when she's like I'm done, right, I'm done, I'm finished with this. Can you tell me whether it's warning signs or something that, can you know? Activate a man to just go. You know what I need to do something now. Is there some advice?

Speaker 1:

yeah, yeah, for sure, just head to wwwconversationswithcon oh, that would be a good start.

Speaker 1:

I can cut that out. Um, I love that. I love that you've used the word model, so I just want to. I want to pull a little bit of your um expression into my answer, but I know but I want to do that intentionally that modeling is really important, I feel like for men and myself. So I own that. I watch men fiercely, I'm looking at them, I'm listening to them, I'm trying to feel them and I don't trust men that I can't feel. Now that's my work.

Speaker 1:

But really acknowledging the power of being around men that model healthy masculinity and each man is going to have a little different flavor of that. Get your own criteria. It accountability important, is integrity important, is courage important, is strength important. Look for that in other men and seeing it being modeled has helped me a lot. And you talk about safety to me, about having the safety to explore my own experience in the presence and company of another man, without advice, without solutions, without assessment, without analysis. That man just sitting there with you going, what's that like for you? Okay, what do you think you can do about it? What are the impacts it's having on your partner? How is it impacting you? It's a very self self-centric. Um, yeah, experience and I've had that through same thing some of the men's training, definitely in the circle I sit in regularly. That's helped me a lot.

Speaker 3:

The question was yeah, just activating the man into action. Yes, Just something simple for them to really go. You know what like I need to. Really, it's up to me now. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks, yeah, so for the signs, I would look for action. I feel like there's two choices. You can sit back and wait for something really painful to happen, and that typically activates action. It doesn't always. I know plenty of men that have had, you know, three, four marriages and are now just jaded and resentful around women full stop, um. So you can go down that path of experiencing the deep pain. My suggestions in relationship with a woman is just start listening to the emotional stress that a woman may be repeating if she's repeating the same thing.

Speaker 1:

It may be annoying to hear, but there's a reason she's saying it again because she doesn't feel heard or you've done nothing about it. Yeah, and that those things there like each man's going to have his own in his relationship or there may be some commonalities. That's the warning sign. That's like the low oil light on your favorite car right that's the orange light, the red light, or, if that's not paid attention to, the engine will seize. That's when she'll say I love you, but I'm not in love with you anymore. And she's checked out because she's offering you clues that something needs to be done. It hasn't been actioned.

Speaker 1:

Her only choice now is to leave because she's given up hope, and once that hope is gone for a woman, the relationship ends. So my advice to men is if you're getting a repeated I don't say complaint, I would say a repeated expression she's continually saying the same thing. She's continually saying the same thing. Check in with that and sit down and have a chapter about it. And if what she wants from you is uncomfortable, that's exactly what you need Get uncomfortable.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, totally, and I think it's just speaking perfectly into one of the chapters in the Way of the Superior man. Man, which is your woman, is your oracle, and that's what you're speaking about is looking at her, as you know, as the the part of you that that needs to man up. You know the part of you that needs to really step up. And, yeah, I love how you've finished off with that because, yeah, it just perfectly closes out our conversation and I know a lot of listeners would have got so much wisdom, you know, out of your presence.

Speaker 3:

actually, and we'll continue to enjoy our relationship with you and if listeners actually want to deepen their connection with you, I'd love for you to share how they can get in touch with you as well and some of the work that you do, which is profound in my opinion, and yeah, so please, please, share with the listeners where they can get in touch with you.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I think the best way to get in touch with you okay, um, I think the best way to get in touch with me would be through my website. I do have social media accounts. I'm kind of fumbling through those Instagram and Facebook page conversations with Kyle my website wwwconversationswithkylecomau with Kyle one word, comau. In there you can read a little bit about me, but in there I offer free 30-minute conversations with anyone, so you can just book a free call for any man that are like.

Speaker 1:

I'll just have a chat with this guy and you can get a feel for what I offer and happy to answer any questions. That would be the best way. Off the back of that, I've started working on an eight-week program targeted for men. Um, I feel like I'm going to run it by you, mick, anyway, before I um release that out into the world, but that's coming together nicely and that it's quite intense by design for men that want to take action. So that may come out in the next six months. That would be online, but with me it's not a kind of automated self-guided thing. No, that's very interactive with me. So, yeah, the best way to get in touch with me would be through my website book a 30-minute call.

Speaker 1:

We can have a chat whether you're in relationship or not, and, yeah, that's just a little share of what what's coming and, yeah, watch this space I guess, but I've really enjoyed this conversation and you guys are like, I feel your attention and your curiosity, which allows me to give me permission to express and I feel, yes, safe, and and that curiosity is a wonderful feeling, to free out what's sitting deep in me.

Speaker 2:

That's, that's true, you know amazing, so thank you it's reciprocal brother yeah, thank you so much for being on here and sharing your wisdom with the world as well and doing what you do for for men and you know, in and out of relationships, so I'm sure there'll be, hopefully a few people reaching out to you, but, um, we'll put all the books that you mentioned and the people that you mentioned in the show notes as well, so if any of the listeners want to check out that, just yeah check out the show notes. Thanks so much, kyle. Thanks, kyle, thank you.