Thrive Again - Your relationship podcast
Guiding a positive redesign in the relationship we have with our partner and ourselves. Offering tools, strategies and personal insights to bring your relationship from barely surviving to thriving.
We are Michael and Amy, your couples connection coaches.
Our mission is to help relationships to THRIVE again!
A bit about us...
We met in 2005 and married in 2009, welcomed two children in 2010 and 2012. Our relationship has had many ups and downs since we first met.
- Mental breakdowns from work overload
- Massive stresses from a premature baby
- Scare with ovarian cancer
- Dealing with financial pressures
- Not knowing ourselves!
This led us to experiencing:
- A communication breakdown
- Arguments and not understanding each other
- Living separately under one roof
- Exhaustion!
This podcast is for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential using a conscious and holistic approach that brought us back to a state of beautiful harmony.
One of the basic human needs is to feel LOVE and CONNECTION but our modern life has led us to feel disconnected and isolated more than ever before.
This podcast is all about helping you to RECONNECT as a couple at a deeper, more meaningful, soul level.
Now, both working as coaches we share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to move your relationships from barely surviving to absolutely thriving!
www.michaelandamy.com.au
Thrive Again - Your relationship podcast
The Power of Vulnerability: How Michael's Insecurity Brought Us Closer
Have you ever wondered why vulnerability is often misunderstood in relationships? In this episode of Thrive Again, Amy and I challenge the superficial buzz around vulnerability and dive deep into its true essence: emotional awareness and mutual support. We reflect on the societal pressures that condition men to suppress their emotions and women to embrace hyper-independence, and how these norms create barriers to deeper connections. By sharing our personal experiences, we advocate for breaking down these walls and emphasise the transformative power of allowing oneself to be emotionally supported by a partner. We promise you'll come away with a stronger understanding of how to cultivate healthier and more connected relationships.
Struggling with self-doubt and frustration at work can feel isolating, but it doesn't have to be that way. We explore the dynamics of internalising negative emotions and how they can lead to isolation and downward spirals. We talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and creating a safe space for vulnerability in professional settings. Drawing from real-life examples and influenced by Sue Johnson's emotional-focused therapy, we stress the necessity of taking emotional risks to build deeper bonds both at home and at work. Tune in to learn about the profound impact of heart-centered connections and how prioritising authenticity over rigid interactions can lead to sustainable relationship healing.
Thankyou for listening, if you liked it, please remember to subscribe.
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Website: https://michaelandamy.com.au/
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If you would like to book in a private discovery call with us, here is the link: https://michaelandamy.com.au/call
1, 2, 3, 4 couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of Thrive Again, your relationship podcast. I'm here with Amy. How are you going, Amy?
Speaker 1:I'm good, thank you, that's amy, I'm good, thank you that's good. I think you ask me that every time and I'm always like what do I say?
Speaker 2:well, tell me, tell me honestly I don't think I want to why not? Are you withholding something?
Speaker 1:no, but I'm like I'm not in that mode of like opening up into that really what's going on for me? I'm just in the work mode at the minute.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. So how can we transition you out of work mode and into podcast mode with openness, vulnerability and authenticity?
Speaker 1:Let's just see what the open discussion comes, and maybe there'll be more of that as we speak throughout our podcast today.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome listeners. So yes, I think in this episode we are going to open up a little bit about how vulnerability becomes. I don't like to use the term tool, but it becomes a process, you know, for the couples that we work with to make some inroads into the connection and why it's so important. And vulnerability gets coined everywhere now, doesn't it? It's quite a commonly used term but in its essence maybe we can try our best to pull apart really what that is, through just explaining even a recent interaction that we had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was kind of reflecting on the word vulnerability before we started and to me, like you mentioned, I feel like that word is completely overused in relationship space. But it is a powerful space to be in, to be in a vulnerable space with your partner. But what I like to pull it back to is just more emotional awareness of what you're experiencing, so then you can lean on your partner to support you in those emotional times or in those times where you feel like you just need a little bit of extra leaning on or a little bit of extra um reminder that there's two people here in this relationship to to hold and support each other and to lean on when it's needed. So I feel like for me, that's what I see vulnerability as as being able to let that person in, to be able to see that maybe you need a little bit of extra support or help or, yeah, that that kind of energy you know, more of the combination of two people as opposed to the individuality of one.
Speaker 1:You know, or you know individuals in one relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:I think that the ability, or our ability, to firstly tune into what's happening with us and then openly express it without any barriers you know, to me is vulnerability, and it's the barriers word that I want to focus on just right now, because I think that we have coping mechanisms and mechanisms that get in the way of us revealing the truth of what's really happening, and that includes with our partner, and often is like with our partner, where we, we, we have barriers, and I know for me, like my idea of what a real man is, is someone who can hold it together, someone who doesn't share his pain, someone who isn't a burden to his wife, and so there's a barrier, right there you know, and and that's still work in progress for me, you know but but I think I've made some inroads in that space because I realize and I can see the potential, the healing potential that actually exists if we can just drop our guard, you know especially as men.
Speaker 1:I think we're just the same as women, though I think that's like yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like, well, some women particularly, I think, for me, especially where I was more of that type of I'm an independent woman, a bit of the feminist, a bit of like I don't need anybody, I can do this all myself kind of that stoic mom that's able to do it all you know, I can be a good mum, I can be a wild wife and that creates that kind of hyper-independence and this ability to just not even realise that I was doing it. You know, because I guess that's so conditioned and programmed into a lot of people these days, a lot of women, where they think that that's, um, I think it's weak or not strong or yeah, you know that's such a big thing that society really puts on on us, whether you're a man or woman, like independence, hyper independence you know, and I remember when I first met you, you were a skydiver.
Speaker 2:a lot of people don't know Amy was a skydiver and you've done hundreds of jumps. And I remember you had this conviction that we're just as good as the men, and I want to prove it.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I remember you just really just trying to not necessarily outdo the men maybe, but I think just keeping up with them was like a big thing for you and you just really wanted to prove this equality yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, that was a big part of my upbringing and and you know my belief back then um, but yeah, I've obviously realized, I guess, how ultimately how unhealthy that is, you know, yeah, anyway, yeah, yeah
Speaker 1:but yeah, I feel like this is an important topic to bring to our audience because I'm sure there's couples out there and we've seen it in the couples that we work with that don't actually lean on their partner to feel that emotional support. You know when, when they're really needing it and deeply dropping into that level of, I guess, vulnerability to share what's going on for each other or for that person, so then the other person can understand. So I think that is really healthy and important to highlight that it's okay to want or to need your partner to be there for you in those moments and it's okay to let them in to to be that support and that rock that you're needing during those times of, maybe, struggle or confusion or whatever that the emotion is that they're moving through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's some complexities to that, of course, that hinder that process, and that's why we work with couples as well. That's why we've started the Reconnected Union, which we'll talk about a little bit at the end of this. But you know barriers including like what if you were to share something to me that was really vulnerable? And because you are experiencing deep sadness about something, and maybe it even involved me, I can't actually be in that discomfort for long, and so I then divert you towards where I think you should be, which is happy, and that then invalidates your experience or doesn't help you to unfurl what's really happening for you. And so if that is the case you know for you whether you're a man or a woman in a relationship then that's often where the work needs to be done is can you be a safe, emotionally secure place for your partner when they're vulnerable? That's a whole other ballgame, and this is such prominent work for us right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, because that's a whole other skill set almost, that we need to bring to a relationship to be able to create that level of deepening into the emotion underneath what the behavior is on top. Yeah, yeah, but that's maybe for another podcast, right? Sure, emotional safety 101.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but that's maybe for another podcast, right Sure Emotional safety 101.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and how that looks and feels for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so did you want to share a little about? I guess what prompted this podcast is something that we went through and shifted through in the last few weeks, something that we went through and shifted through in the last few weeks and I'm sure there's many other times where this comes up in our relationship but I think this is a bit of a prominent one and I think it's one that's important for our audience to listen or hear a real-life example of what we went through during that time.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, should I start during that time? Okay, all right, should I?
Speaker 1:start, you should start.
Speaker 2:Okay, so there was a it was probably two weeks ago now, but we were getting geared up to present at a festival and we were presenting a thriving relationships workshop and on top of that Amy was going to facilitate a breath work.
Speaker 2:But really the important part of this is that I guess for you, for the audience to know, is that I've still got, you know, a lot of insecurities in myself and, like a lot of people experience and I've done a lot of work on myself I still experience insecurity and we were prepping for this festival and part of that was just finalizing how we were going to present this workshop.
Speaker 2:And I've noticed in myself over previous years and even running men's circles that there's something that happens inside of me that is disrupting when I'm moving into some sort of group facilitation, when I'm moving into some sort of group facilitation, and I've been really self-observant of that process lately and this is actually part of that. So what was happening was we agreed that I was going to really help to finalize the way that we were going to present this workshop and I started to write things down on the computer and then I just found myself deleting things and then I would delete it and then I would write it again, and then I would read it again and I would think that's rubbish and that's never going to be good enough, and then I would delete it again, and then I would write it again, and then I would delete it and probably three hours later, when this should have been a 40-minute task, I was sitting in this place of frustration and I remember just being my normal process. Can you describe what my normal process is when I'm frustrated? What happens?
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you get frustrated, I think it's kind of like you go quiet. It's like this inward process that you do, you'd go quiet. You'd kind of almost get feeling like you're defeated, you're beaten down and, um, you start to really question a lot of yourself and, and like you said, that, that self-worth, that self-belief, um that that really evident. That I see, anyway from my side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's pretty much bang on. So I'm just internalizing this suffering that's going on inside of me and I just become this island and I think that I need to take this on myself and really how that looked, was and how that felt was just frustration just pent up inside of me that I can't even get this job done, you know. And so I would go quiet, and then I think I I said something to you and you just said why don't you?
Speaker 2:why don't you just leave it for now? Why don't you just leave it? And I said, yeah, I think it's a good idea to leave it, but there's a big part of me just saying I I should be able to get this done. Really, that's ridiculous. And so, yeah, I went out and went for a. I think I went for a walk or I just got out of the office.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said I think I need to move my body. Yeah, I need to get out of here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so I left the office and then we sat down, I think. Can you remember how that even happened? Was that something that I approached you about?
Speaker 1:No, I just yeah, I just approached you because I could see how defeated you were and I could, and I obviously I'm aware of that in you and how that impacts you with that doubt, that self-doubt. So I was just really curious. I was, I was kind of empathetic and I had to kind of tread lightly, I suppose, with how I broach this Cause. I didn't want to make you feel more inferior by me, like why isn't it done? How come you can't do?
Speaker 2:that.
Speaker 1:What's wrong with you? Just get on with it. Like I asked you to do one thing and like, honestly, these are some of the things that I was that was mulling over in my thoughts but then I just went no way.
Speaker 1:That's not how, like you know, we need to approach this. We need to really, like, find the um, the wound here, I guess, ultimately, or find the soft spot or the weak point that is causing this um, frustration that you're feeling and also causing this inability to move forward from here. It's like this stuck, you just got stuck and you just kept ruminating in this toxic kind of thought patterns of I'm not sure exactly your thoughts but describe it.
Speaker 2:But it was, you know. That's an important point, because if you didn't bring it up with me or approach me from a point of curiosity and gentleness, then it's highly unlikely that I would have been able to really allow myself to be vulnerable with you.
Speaker 2:I couldn't because, especially if you were probing me and telling me that I should have had this done by now, like there's no chance and so what I would have, um, retaliated with would have been some sort of frustrated outburst or defensiveness, and I would have just dropped into how well you haven't done, you know, certain things that I asked you to do, and then, tit for tat would start, the cycle would fire up, right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so approaching, yeah, because I felt your gentleness and your curiosity.
Speaker 2:I think that helped me to unfurl what was really going on, because at the time I'm just swimming around in frustration and self-doubt that's what's going on in my mind and I think what that helped me to do was unpack how this all started, and I just really was unpacking it with you and I just said, look, I felt like I couldn't write this thing out and I deleted it.
Speaker 2:I think that I was deleting it because I felt like it was never good enough, you know, and maybe I had this perception that no matter what I present, it's never going to be good enough for this audience, you know, and that maybe I don't have value to offer, maybe I don't have wisdom, like a lot of these gurus have, you know, and so that then got me thinking like if I'm not good enough to even put this together, maybe I'm just not good enough in general. You know, maybe as a theme like I can really buy into that story then that I'm just not good enough, right, and and yeah, and I think when I spoke those words, I felt some emotion come through and it was.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, that was a real moment where I just felt safe enough to really tell you that I just right now I'm not feeling like I'm good enough to even do this thing you know and um, yeah, and I think for you, like, that warmth was there, that that curiosity was the thing that helped me to just speak more about that and get that out of my body cognitively. So I was able to make sense of, firstly, how I got here, which was just a simple task that I couldn't do, which reinforced an inability for me to be enough, and all those sorts of things, and then that got me into a spin, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah for sure. It's funny witnessing that from afar. I felt like maybe there's some pressure that I put on you as well, because I was like here, can you do this? I've got to do this breath work and I'm going to trust you and I'll give it to you. So I think there's also that added weight or that added pressure that I felt that maybe I put on to you for that task as well.
Speaker 1:And I love I think we were so secure in our relationship now that we both want to serve each other. We both want to really be there for each other in this relationship and particularly in our workspace, where we take pride and we're doing our best to help others. So I felt like there's also this added burden or weight that I'd given you with that task and I think I felt like it. You put it on your shoulders as well, as you know, trying to get the perfectionism that you are. You're a bit of a perfectionist. And then there's also, as as you said, in these men's circle spaces and these facilitations and groups, you I'm noticing that there's a a soft spot there that you've kind of sometimes doubt yourself in that group facilitation.
Speaker 1:So I was conscious of all of these things. So when you were sitting on the couch I was like, oh gosh, he's really hurting. There's that like. To be honest, I could see almost that little boy in you. Like I could see that little boy that has, you know, that wound from childhood. It's still there and it still plays. Has you know that wound from childhood still there and it still plays.
Speaker 1:So I needed to kind of come with it with that sort of approach, of that gentleness of like, hey, like, and I, and I think for me that what I tried to do is relate it to a time when I felt this way when I came up with this doubt, to make you feel more okay with feeling that, right, no, shame, no, like you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I've experienced that too. I remember like there was a time when I tried to to do something like this and I really had difficulty as well, and I all of these thoughts come up. So I think this is a a point that sometimes, if we can help our partner to get that information out, but also to relate it to something, maybe similar, that you've experienced, helps you to feel that empathy or that, um, you know, yeah, that space that you're coming from, and that's where we can both drop down into that vulnerability and be be open enough to, to speak, those things that that maybe a lot of couples wouldn't yeah, yeah, it does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just dropping down into that softness, being, yeah, in a way being the curious nurturer, and that's what I really needed, was not someone with harshness to knock me out of it, not, you know, because again that would just reinforce my, uh, my inadequacy.
Speaker 1:That I maybe believe about myself at times and, and I think, prior to our awareness, changing and growing and and stepping into more of this space in our relationship, that would have been the case. Right, I would have just gone, I just get it done, you. But what is wrong with you? You know that kind of and I would have probably yeah, probably made it is wrong with you, you know that kind of, and I would have probably, yeah, probably made it worse right, and then you would have fired up more, and then yeah, you aggravate the wound and then the wound gets defensive, yeah and wants because it.
Speaker 2:Because what our partners actually do is they highlight beliefs that we have about ourselves.
Speaker 2:And so you know, if you were to highlight, you know, by doing that, like yeah, you should have had this done, that highlights to me my inability to get things done you know, and which then I'm not, I'm not enough of a man, and so when I believe that about myself, or at least a part of me believes that that's true, then that part wants to like, backlash and defend and really like. But if I didn't have any belief around that, then I wouldn't even feel the need to be defensive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah. So I think it's just important that our message I think we'll just wrap this up because we could talk about this a lot but our core message here for our audience and our listeners, ultimately is you've got a choice in a relationship. You can continue kind of playing it safe and having this. What were we saying yesterday to that couple?
Speaker 2:you know, like this it's like this zone of comfort.
Speaker 2:It's like this safe zone, you know where you just, you're okay with each other, you know, and you don't want to lose what you have, so you don't want to take any risks and I think, by taking risks and seeing if your partner can catch you, is really where the evidence is actually showing sustainable relationship healing actually happens, and thank you to sue johnson, who has been a wonderful inspiration to us through her work with emotional focus therapy and this has become like a big hallmark part of our therapy now and it's, it's um, it's definitely one. That's a journey. That's scary because it requires you to open your heart, but that's actually how we receive signals from our partner. We're primal beings. We receive emotional signals from each other, and if we're receiving harshness from each other, then we can't really have a heart-centered connection.
Speaker 1:We can't because we're always met with rigidity and shielded hearts, so we can't really open up to that depth yeah, exactly, and this is all about like really forming a deeper bond, right being okay for your partner to see you in all your colors in all of your.
Speaker 1:You know your dark and your light. So it's not just pretending that everything's okay, I've got this and and shielding and protecting yourself, but actually letting down your guard and inviting your partner to see you in all of that too. So this will deepen the bond. This will bring that deeper connection as well for each other.
Speaker 2:And so what we've learned through our years of being together and what we've learned through our studies and everything that we've compiled together on attachment theory, we have really put together a powerful, super powerful program that we're looking to launch really, really soon, and it's called the reconnected union. It encompasses all of this emotional safety. It encompasses you know how to approach different wounds in each other. You know how to create connection through communication, how to really understand, how to formulate a vision together for your relationship. And there's so many more depths to this because, again, we can just dwell in a normal relationship, which is safe, you know, at best, but sometimes it's the edginess that really helps to deepen the relationship, right yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So that is going to be an online program that we've started.
Speaker 1:It's a reconnected union, uh, it's a group container, so then we can help more people um and reach more. You know of you guys who who are wanting that deeper connection and awareness of each other. So that's going to be on a wednesday night, um, and if you're interested, please send us a message. It's really affordable and it's going to be kind of life-changing um. It will really take you guys from that stale, bored, safe place into a really deeper, more fulfilling, more um alive relationship where it's it's got that spark, it's got that energy where you, you desire each other again yeah, I'm so looking forward to this.
Speaker 2:It's so exciting yeah yeah, we've already got um some, some couples signed up and we yeah, we can't wait to get this one under underway yeah, thank you so much for listening guys and we'll catch on the next podcast.