Transforming Relationship Insecurities: Overcoming Jealousy with Shanenn Bryant

Imagine navigating the turbulent waters of jealousy and insecurity in relationships with newfound clarity and confidence. Shanenn Bryant, our insightful guest and a pattern transformation expert, shares her deeply personal journey from feeling unlovable due to a chaotic childhood and parental divorce to understanding the roots of her own jealousy and insecurity. Shanenn is passionate about breaking the stigma around these emotions and creating a safe space where they can be openly discussed. Her story and expertise promise to guide us toward managing these complex feelings with grace and self-awareness.

Join us as we dissect the intricate dance of jealousy and envy, differentiating between the fear of losing what we cherish and the longing for what others have. Our discussion sheds light on how the brain’s past experiences with betrayal or neglect can amplify these emotions, often making them difficult to express, especially for men. 

We explore effective strategies for communicating vulnerabilities with a partner, emphasising the power of supportive relationships and honest dialogue. Our conversation strives to equip listeners with tools for managing anxiety and nurturing self-care practices within their relationships. Childhood experiences leave lasting imprints that shape adult attachment styles and relationship dynamics. In this episode, we unpack how early life events can program insecurities and jealousy, influencing attachment strategies. The journey toward healthier connections involves understanding and altering these unconscious patterns, a transformative process that Shanenn guides us through thoughtfully. We touch upon the importance of community and support systems, inviting listeners to connect with Shannon for further insights. Her work with "signature pattern rope" techniques and involvement in support networks offers a pathway to healing old wounds and fostering secure, fulfilling relationships.

To check out more of Shanenn Bryant's work and how to conect with her, visit:
https://www.topselfpodcast.com/

Or check out her instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/topselfcoach?igsh=MTBiNWJscTMwcGVibQ==

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Chapters

• 0:19 Overcoming Jealousy and Insecurity in Relationships
• 13:02 Navigating Jealousy in Relationships
• 23:54 Exploring Childhood Influence on Adult Relationships
• 27:59 Understanding Attachment Styles and Overcoming Jealousy
• 36:55 Healing Through Unconscious Patterns
• 42:17 Finding Support and Community in Relationships

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

1, 2, 3, 4 couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Are you struggling with jealousy, insecurity or self-doubt? You're not alone. It's way more prominent than you may think. Today we're chatting with pattern transformation expert Shannon Bryant. She combines hard-won wisdom and practical strategies that help you break free from the patterns keeping you stuck in this area within relationships. We dive deep into the human psyche childhood wounds and how this dynamic can debilitate those not in check with it all. If you're ready to bring light to this often tucked away topic, let's get into it. Shannon Bryant, so good to have you on the show today, and I know me. I'm personally really excited about this. Um, because we're going to be diving into a really interesting topic and one that causes so much heartache in the relationship space, and that is jealousy and insecurity and how that actually really impacts us in relationships as individuals and as a couple. So so, shannon, I'd love for you to just maybe speak into like the beautiful, amazing work that you do and why it is that you're passionate about this space. Let's just start there.

Speaker 3: 1:56

Oh yeah, thank you guys so much for having me. This is yeah, the jealousy is quite a spicy topic and you know, if someone would have told me eight years ago that I'd be helping other people overcome or manage their jealousy, I would have said no way, because I really struggled with it myself an alcoholic. So my environment was super chaotic and violent and we just never knew what we were going to get. And my parents divorced when I was 12, thankfully and after that I didn't have much of a relationship with my dad. So it kind of became this story that I started to tell myself well gosh, if my own dad doesn't love me, why would anyone else? And so that carried over into my relationships. This thought, this belief that I had about myself that I was unlovable in some way and that people were always just going to leave me, that carried over into my relationships and I ruined what could have been decent relationships because of my jealousy and maybe stayed way too long in some bad ones.

Speaker 2: 3:08

That I shouldn't have because of my insecurity.

Speaker 3: 3:13

And so when I decided to talk about this, I was invited to speak to an ACA women's group and they said just talk about your life and what it was like growing up in that type of environment. And then what challenges are you presented today? I started talking about how this jealousy really affected my relationships and how I tried over and over for so many years to to not, you know, to try to be more secure and not let this jealousy run my life, and I just really struggled with it. At the end, so many hands went up and these women were like I can't believe that you're talking about this. I can't believe you just said what you said.

Speaker 3: 3:55

It's such there's so much shame around being jealous in relationships, right? No one's like putting it on their dating profile, like, I will look at your phone and I will, you know, look up location. So that's really. I thought I am going to do the podcast about it, because these people have nowhere to go or people to talk to about it, cause there's so much shame around it. So that's really. My mission is to let's talk about what it really is and kind of pull that stigma away from oh, you're just a jealous girl, or you're just a woman who's jealous and insecure because there's so much more to that.

Speaker 1: 4:39

So much more. I'm curious to know, like when you said, shannon, like there's so much shame around jealousy, it's so true, right? Because it's not spoken, we don't hear about it, it's not like something that you kind of you know. Oh, yes, I'm a jealous person, you know, like I feel like so much different labels that people give themselves, but that's definitely not one. But I'm curious to know for you, or maybe in your work, in your field, why do you think there is so much shame? What is the underlying reason that there's shame around feeling jealous in a relationship?

Speaker 3: 5:13

There's a couple of things around it. One society tells us that there's something wrong with you, that that's negative. The other part is, typically we get these emotions when we have those jealous feelings. There's a lot that comes out right, because when you're jealous, what it does is pretty much just opens the file cabinet of all of these reasons why this person may leave you, or why you're going to get something taken away, or why you're going to get abandoned or betrayed, and you have all these past evidences of that. So maybe somebody was in a relationship where there was infidelity, or a series of relationships where there was infidelity. Maybe they had a childhood, like mine, where love felt good sometimes and then it was really scary other times, and so it just kind of opens that file cabinet of all these.

Speaker 3: 6:06

Here's all the evidence of why you should be feeling threatened right now and you should be on high alert. That's what our brain does. Anyway, that amygdala is on overdrive going. Hey, we've seen something that looks like this before this is a threat, or this is scary, or you're in danger. This is a threat, or this is scary, or you're in danger. So we have these sometimes, these really big reactions to what seems like to other people, really minor offenses, like someone may have glanced at someone attractive, and then to that person it means a whole lot more to them than just a look and that's really hard to explain to somebody and they don't understand. Why am I like this? The third part, I think, where the shame there's so much shame is. I've tried and tried, and tried and tried. I don't want to be this way. I have no idea. I keep failing and I don't know how to get out of this and it's such a lonely place if you don't have support, right?

Speaker 2: 7:12

um, and I think for me you've just spoken into something that's really personal for me and I've been on both sides. I've experienced extreme jealousy from an ex-partner, but then I've also felt jealousy in this relationship in the early stages of our relationship. So I've actually been on both sides. But one thing that came to mind for me that maybe contributes to the shame that the jealous person might experience, is how the partner actually feels like this. This was my experience was I might just say hello to a new friend of of this partner and and I it was a seemed like a totally innocent conversation and what happened is we we had conversation for about a minute or two.

Speaker 2: 8:04

My partner was next to me and then afterwards I got basically bailed up and she kind of really confronted me and just sort of said, um, yeah, it was great how you were just just checking out, you know, my friend, and how you were just just chatting to her like that, um, and she's got a low-cut top on or something like that. And I just remember just thinking to myself what I was really confused because I didn't see that at all. I didn't actually see her friend as being attractive. So what I did back then is I sort of minimized that whole scenario for her and I made it that it's not a big deal and you're overreacting. And so now in hindsight I could see that I was possibly even just throwing fire into that and dismissing her experience. But you know, trying to help her to see that this isn't a big deal, I'm trying to reassure her so I can see how complex this can really become.

Speaker 3: 8:58

Yes. So thank you for sharing that story, because that's a perfect example. Going back to your question about like why is there so much shame around it? Because what I would almost guess and you know just from hearing that story is she then probably in turn. That's when the shame and the guilt set in, like, oh my gosh, I was so one. I was not very nice to my partner, who I love or care for.

Speaker 3: 9:25

So I wasn't very nice to them, which makes me feel like a bad person. So I wasn't very nice to them, which makes me feel like a bad person, and I don't know why I get so upset about this, and that makes me feel like there's something really wrong with me. And so a lot of times it is really hard for the partner because they don't know what to do. I want to give this person the reassurance but also, at the same time, I didn't do anything wrong. And that's probably the biggest maybe aha moment in the beginning when somebody starts to do this work with me is it doesn't matter whether your partner looked at her or not. It doesn't matter if they noticed the low cut top or they didn't.

Speaker 3: 10:04

The problem is is internal with us, because we could probably pluck that partner out and put anybody in yeah, and it wouldn't make a difference. And so what a lot of people in the beginning think like well, if you hadn't, you know, talked to her that long, I wouldn't have gotten jealous. If you hadn't done this, if you were more affectionate with me, I wouldn't feel this way. If she didn't wear a low cut top, I wouldn't feel this way. And so we it's that realization, like it's a deep rooted thing with us, not necessarily something our partner is doing.

Speaker 1: 10:38

A hundred percent and it takes that responsibility of self to look at that part. And what do I need to do to find security in myself or to help heal whatever that insecurity is that's creating that jealousy? Yeah, yeah yeah, because we can always put the finger outwards. Right, we can always blame everybody else.

Speaker 2: 10:58

But that's so much easier yeah, right, yeah yeah, yeah so much easier to do that, absolutely yeah yeah, it's so tricky and um, and then, yeah, I guess like um, you know, just just thinking about our relationship in our early parts of our relationship, and amy was she was skydiving, she was like basically jumping out of airplanes with all these guys and you know, like there was. She had such a deep connection, like deep friendships with a lot of these men and I could see that it really transcended friendships that I had, and so for me it was difficult and it was a super like big challenge for me to actually really turn up to a skydiving drop zone and actually witness her with her friends and most of them are men. Actually, she'd had probably, I know you'd had a couple of romantic relationships with a couple of them as well. And then I'm thrust into this environment where I already feel inadequate and insecure because I don't jump out of airplanes.

Speaker 2: 12:01

So, um, at the start of our relationship, like that was like a lot of growth for me to really confront this stuff and I just remember feeling jealous and insecure in those moments. So, on the flip side, like I've experienced jealousy to a degree that it affected my emotional state and my body and the way that I was kind of turning up in conversation, the way that whether I'd engage people in their eyes or not, the way that whether I'd engage people in their eyes or not, like all of those things I believe were a direct reflection of how I felt internally in myself. So I guess I just wanted to ask you, like, what are some of the ways in which jealousy affects the body? Like, and how that jealous person actually experiences life.

Speaker 3: 12:49

Yeah, that's such a good question because that's really where you know it. It lies in our body and it lies in our um, kind of our programming, and that is one thing. Somebody who has this type of jealousy, and I'm sure you know, looking back, you could experience or like remember that experience of kind of like. And I'm sure you know, looking back, you could experience or like remember that experience of kind of like oh, I feel that knot in my stomach, that lump in my throat, I feel like my heart is pounding fast maybe you know shorter breaths, like, oh, I can't, you know breathe.

Speaker 3: 13:20

And the thing we want to do is like get out of that uncomfortable feeling, right, that energy that we have when we're feeling that way and so that's the other part is it's really damaging us from a physical aspect as well, and we have a hard time getting out of that fight or flight, and so that's usually one of the things that we'll do is okay, fight, I'm going to pick a fight with my partner. I'm going to, you know, cause a scene, I'm going to leave. I'm going to all of these things because we're trying to get that energy that we're feeling in our body. That's so uncomfortable. We're trying to get that out in some way. And so you know, our brain doesn't really care if we do it in a healthy way or unhealthy strategy, it's just let's get it taken care of. And it kind of goes back to that when I was talking before about the amygdala and the cortex, or we might've mentioned the amygdala and the cortex, where that's your amygdala at play, that's kind of your scene eye dog, the one that's looking for potential threats to your safety, and that's really important to us as humans. However, sometimes that amygdala gets overworked and it's then now constantly looking for these signs and these threats to us.

Speaker 3: 14:34

The other thing I wanted to bring up that you know was a good point that I want to kind of distinguish too is the other reason jealousy can be so hard is because there's also this other element of envy in there, and so in your story it wasn't even just the jealousy, but now you add in that envy potentially of. You know, envy is I want something that someone else has, and jealousy is I'm afraid that somebody is going to take what I have. So sometimes we have both of those things going on, and so in your situation that was probably it. I don't know how to skydive. You know she's got deeper relationships with these people and you know this is someone new, that that I care about and I don't want it taken away and say how can I kind of get out of this fight or flight and how can I care for myself?

Speaker 3: 15:34

In the moment, because that's one of the biggest things that we do is the spiraling thoughts and then how that anxiety really ramps up for us. So we've got both having to take care of the physical aspect, which I'm happy to talk about, different things that we can do but then also, well, what's at the root of it, right? Because that's kind of in the moment, like it's happening and my body's really amped up. I need to take care of that because, of course, when you're anxious like that, your brain is not thinking clearly anyway. So now you've got this super sensitive situation that I, you know I'm not even thinking clearly on. How do I handle this? So, body first, then mind.

Speaker 2: 16:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:12

Yeah, and that just becomes one big mess. Yeah yeah, there's no way to get around that. Yeah yeah, really challenging.

Speaker 2: 16:20

Yeah it is, and especially like I guess, like from a man's point of view, like for me to convey that vulnerably to Amy in an early part of my relationship is something that I would not do like there's no way that I was going to open up my guard to that level, because then she wouldn't actually perceive me as being insecure, which is such a weird or unattractive or you know.

Speaker 2: 16:41

Oh, he's a needy guy and and so yeah, so I would withhold that further because I had this shame around that feeling. So it all comes back to the message that you're talking about. So it's super interesting, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:51

I'd love to know, maybe in your experience, shannon, like what would you suggest in relationship, you know, and how to approach that, like I guess we were on in the early days, but if this continued, you know, throughout the relationship and it became an issue, how could one partner approach the other in a way where they can bring this up and vulnerably share this without, I don't know, causing more trouble? Have you got any thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 17:18

Yeah, and I think this is something that definitely couples struggle with the jealous person, for the very reasons that you brought up. Like I don't want to tell them that I'm feeling this way because, one, you know how are they going to look at me. And it's a very valid point because, going back to that again, because people don't understand what's at the root of it, it is like, oh my gosh, she's crazy, or he's crazy or he's insecure. He's, you know, not the tough man that I need, what? What? All of those stereotypes of things that that come up. So, but if you have somebody, if you're really with the right person anyway, or someone that's good for you, they're going to care for you. And if you can explain it to them in that way, like you know, I want to let you know what's going on with me and I am being super vulnerable. So I need that attention, Like I need you to listen to what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 18:12

I think the big point, too, is being able to communicate to your partner, even though it's coming out in this way. So sometimes it might come out as anger. Some people shut down and kind of give the cold shoulder, Like I'm not going to talk to you because I'm feeling insecure, I don't like what you did. So it's explaining that to their partner too, because it's really easy to take that personal and I'm sure if you had said something to Amy at that time, she kind of like just how you felt in that previous relationship, Like what did I do? You know I didn't do anything wrong, and then I'm getting this directed at me. So sometimes that communication helps a little bit. But then also the way that you're delivering it and working on that delivery, that I am taking personal accountability for this and I'm not blaming you and I'm not pointing the finger at you that helps somewhat in the you know, okay, let's kind of calm things down a bit so that everybody can like let's work on the real root of it so we can get past it.

Speaker 2: 19:12

Yeah, massive point, and it's so like critical to understand the difference. Like, I guess, going back to that previous story where I was experiencing jealousy from my ex-partner, she delivered it in a way that was really super critical, that I was definitely in the wrong and I was doing the wrong things. So what you just explained was a different way of approaching it. You spoke something about hey, I'm about to share something with you, really vulnerable, so I just really love if you could just pay attention right now. And then, speaking from that vulnerable part, hey, I'm feeling really scared that you know you're gonna leave me, I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 19:45

Um, that kind of energy I'm assuming like, and that's sort of what we, what we really try to encourage in our work, in our couple's work, is to come from that deeper, vulnerable place of the like, the, the, the primary emotion that's under there. That's really kind of like like trying out. It's, you know, it's feeling alone or feeling scared or feeling confused or feeling fearful that I'm going to lose you, and speaking from that place is probably less likely to have defensiveness from the other partner. Is that kind of what you're saying?

Speaker 3: 20:18

Yeah, you know they can. Certainly it helps for them to be a little bit more tolerable while you're trying to work things out. And you know to speak really frankly, yes, if it continues for a long period of time or you're not working on that and you're still behaving in those ways, even though they understand it, even though they may know where it comes from, it's still going to cause those issues in your relationship. So, but that can be the conversation of hey, I'm working on this, but I just want to let you know and I'm going to do my best to not point the finger at you and point blame, because I know that this is a me thing and you know one of the one of the big things. So there's, there are two major things I think when we talk about how does someone start to work on this and what are things that we have to consider. One is we have the deep rooted beliefs that we have to work on. So we've got to reprogram those core beliefs that we have about ourself. Then, also, where the partner really comes in is we are not meeting our own needs. So we're going to our partner for this constant reassurance.

Speaker 3: 21:27

I mean, in a way, it's a different type of addiction. I'm feeling this urge, this uncomfortableness, this energy in my body. I'm feeling jealous, I'm feeling insecure. I need you to do something. I need that fix from you. Reassure me, or I need to look in your phone and not see anything. I need to check your location to make sure you are where you say you are. That gives me that fix, that gives me that dopamine hit that I'm after, and then I feel better for a little while and then it comes back again. And so, when we are constantly looking to our partner to fulfill our needs, that's the other reason that these outside threats feel so scary, because now, not only are you just taking my partner, potentially you're taking my needs away, my needs getting fulfilled, you're taking that away too. So you can see how just a simple conversation, a one minute conversation, is so much bigger and causes so many, you know, bigger issues with with that person.

Speaker 1: 22:40

Yeah, that's that's really powerful when I really dropped in, when you were sharing that right, because it, yeah, it's the double effect, you know, not only are you, you know, feeling jealous, but then you're also needing that person to create that safety for you by that reassurance, that continual reassurance. So then it's even more threatening if, if that person does, you know, do the right thing, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 23:03

Yeah, Because we, for whatever reason, we have this false thing. You know, when we get together with somebody, then there's this whole idea that we create in our mind of okay, you know, you're committed to me, I'm committed to you, we're going to get together, we're going to get married and have kids and everything's going to be fantastic and you're never going to hurt me and I'm never going to hurt you. And it's just. That's not. You know reality. Your partner probably is going to disappoint you at some time. They probably are going to hurt you in some way. It's all possible, right? But if we're making them our everything and they are the ones that have to fulfill our needs, then, yeah, it becomes much bigger deal. If that relationship is then taken away.

Speaker 1: 23:46

Yeah, and that's like codependency, right? You just become codependent and then, yeah, all of a sudden the whole world explodes if anything happens. Yeah, and that's like codependency, right? You just become codependent and then, yeah, all of a sudden the whole world explodes if anything happens.

Speaker 2: 23:54

Yeah, I wanted to maybe get into childhood influence and how that actually shapes the relationships today that you might have as an adult. And you spoke into that a little bit like from the get-go, I mean your childhood, um, I'm guessing there was a sense of abandonment, and I'm not, you know, I'm not enough as I am and and I'll let you speak into that, but how much of this insecurity and jealousy type experiences that adults have, how much of that is attributed to childhood, do you think?

Speaker 3: 24:31

So there are kind of what I call the imprint elements, and so, basically, you know, repetition plus emotion programs life's commotion. So all of this programming that we get are from you know, what we witness yes, on a consistent basis, what we hear over and over and over, and what we experience, our own experiences. So, yeah, the majority comes from that time of zero to eight years old, but then we can also have experiences as adults, and so maybe I picked the wrong partner and there was some infidelity, and so of course that's when the emotion is high. That high it doesn't necessarily have to be repetitive over and over, but maybe then it happened to me again, right? So repetition plus emotion, those are kind of the two things.

Speaker 3: 25:28

So when you have those experiences or when you're seeing an example of you know, oftentimes it could be just something where they saw their dad cheat on their mom or vice versa, again, in my situation, where love is scary but sometimes it's good, so I can't really trust it. So all of those things I mean. So those are really like the imprint elements. You know what we witness, what we hear and what we experience, and they can really happen at any time, but certainly usually that comes from childhood programming.

Speaker 1: 26:07

And that's just brought into that relationship that you're in and then it's kind of still almost unconsciously plays out, because it's your imprint, right, it's kind of in your wiring and then therefore it's your creation of what you're stepping into too in that relationship space as well.

Speaker 3: 26:22

yeah, yeah and and most don't even realize that they're doing it. So I, you know, we get really good at being um, hyper vigilant as a child, so I was constantly like listening at night for my dad to come home and trying to be able to tell, like, is he, you know, is it going to be a good night, is it going to be a bad night? Just all the little things. And you, you start to pick that up. So then as an adult, you get in a relationship with someone and they're 10 minutes late coming home from work, late coming home from work.

Speaker 3: 27:01

What seems so insignificant to someone else is big for this person, because they notice everything. So maybe that person came home 10 minutes late and they're quiet. They're more quiet than normal. I'm going to pick up on that. And then, of course, I'm going to make it about me. Are they upset with me, this or that? Why were they 10 minutes late? What happened? This is unusual. What you know? All of those things that make it about me. And so then here comes probably all the questioning you know jealousy, insecurity, all of it.

Speaker 1: 27:28

Absolutely yeah, and that obviously comes back into all of the Michael and I've done previous podcasts before on the attachment strategies that we, you know, have created from childhood and how they play out in our adult relationships too, right? So, yeah, what you described there is obviously that anxious type of person who needs the answers because they're like from their childhood, they're continually seeking and searching because it doesn't feel safe for them. So they need those questions answered. They want to know for what's happening or where their partner is and all those sorts of things. Right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:59

I think, in those attachment styles or attachment strategies and if anyone's listening, you know it would be probably helpful to get some guidance around this if you choose to go and do a quiz or something online, because sometimes we can, you know, diagnose ourselves with this problem and then turn ourselves into a spin. So just a little bit of a disclaimer there. But if somebody knows that they're an anxious attachment style, my understanding is that this style, and maybe even the disorganised attachment style as well, are probably more likely to experience jealousy and have outward symptoms or be able to. You know, it's more obvious with those attachment styles and then maybe avoidance could still still experience jealousy, but then they might be just less likely to be able to kind of come out and speak about that. And I'm just wondering if you think that that could be true. Do you think that that's?

Speaker 3: 29:00

Yeah, definitely the avoidant. We probably would never know, right they're not going to probably share that with us, and absolutely that's true. The anxious, the disorganized or fearful avoidant, however you want to phrase it yes, both of those typically will. And of course, the anxious loves to be in relationship with the avoidant.

Speaker 3: 29:23

So, yeah, then you've got that push-pull scenario going on. But yeah, they're both because they both really want love and they're going to act a little bit differently. The anxious is usually like I'll do anything for it, I'm going to keep going, keep going, I'll do anything for it, which then they get to the point of, okay, now they have no boundaries whatsoever and so a lot of times they can pull in these, get in relationship with people that maybe don't care for them in the way that they should be cared for, and you know, it's really interesting about the attachment styles and this all together. So we think about that programming that we have. So I'll use myself again as an example.

Speaker 3: 30:05

But if I have that programming in me that I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy of love, I'm always going to be abandoned. Then I'm always going to, I'm going to seek out people that keep me in that comfort zone. So, even though I hate it of chaos or, you know, being not treated well, I'm going to continue to seek that because that's my standard, that's what's comfortable, in a way, for me. Right, when my husband and I first got married or first were dating, I was, you know, I'd been so used to chaos and chaotic relationships and it was like, okay, everything's fine, everything's fine. This is so weird and I caused chaos, right? Because I like, oh, let me drum something up, because even though I hated it.

Speaker 3: 30:58

Yeah, that's what I'm used to, or what I was used to, so you continue to go back to that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:05

Yeah, and I think for some people that can land as a big aha moment for them, and also maybe the listeners can. They know they've had a friend before that just keeps picking these partners and you're just like what are you thinking?

Speaker 3: 31:21

Yeah, what are you doing?

Speaker 2: 31:24

But there's a deeper thing at play here and it's the unconscious mind, and I guess you know from our understanding you know it's the unconscious mind is looking to, to, to almost re reassemble a scenario that that represents, you know, some sort of familiarity from childhood, so that they can then heal, um, something that's unresolved, and and I kind of think that that's a big leap for someone to to really understand sometimes.

Speaker 2: 31:52

But, um, but when it drops, uh, all of a sudden, you can start to reflect on the relationships that you've had and maybe, if you're someone without boundary and you can see how you're just allowing certain things to come into your life, it can really create, I guess, a moment for you to kind of go okay, maybe I need to start to have a look at me and and, yeah, what's, what's how I'm wired now and why I'm wired the way that I am it's so confronting, though right, like to do that journey and to take that responsibility, like right at the beginning, I think you said, shannon, you know like often it is that inward journey of like looking itself to go okay, I'm, I'm the one that's jealous here.

Speaker 1: 32:32

It's nothing, you know, it's actually my problem that I'm working through.

Speaker 3: 32:42

But yeah, that can be even just that step can be such a big step for a lot of people to see that it's not me.

Speaker 1: 32:44

You know it's. I mean it is me. It's not everybody else that's doing this to me.

Speaker 3: 32:48

Yeah, Because the world can feel very much like that right, Relationship after relationship after relationship, that you know this person cheated on me, or this person did this, or they treated me this way, and especially, you know to your point too, is that's what gets them even more frustrated, even more embarrassed, even more ashamed. Because, like I'm doing all the things, I'm looking for the red flags. I thought I was looking for this and I thought I was being, you know, very thorough in my search, and but it's because of that, you know, subconscious programming that's going on. It's like you can look at red flags all day. We're still going to go back there.

Speaker 2: 33:28

That GPS is programmed in there.

Speaker 3: 33:30

We're going back there no matter what until you change that right, you put new directions in the program, in the system, and then we'll, then we'll start picking better partners.

Speaker 1: 33:41

Yeah yeah, I really think that's such a powerful message for all our listeners to you know, who experience some sort of jealousy or insecurity is actually not so much changing your partner or doing a different thing. It's, yeah, starting to look at self and how you know, how you can look after yourself and find security in yourself. And what parts of you have you not healed from that past hurt or pain or whatever? Because there is so many relationships experience infidelity. Right, you know, there's so much infidelity happening in most relationships not most a lot of relationships and it's so hard to help people heal because it's nothing more that their partner can do. It's always just themselves that needs to kind of have to look at that.

Speaker 3: 34:28

Yeah, yeah, well, and what's worse is, then we get our reticular activating system, our RAS, in our brain. That goes, you know, I saw this piece of evidence and then now I'm going to look for more and more and more. And your brain helps you do that because it filters out other things, like other evidence, like I may have. You know, you may have had all these reasons why not to worry about Amy in these relationships. But your brain is like filtering down on that thing that you're trying to prove, or that thing that you think, and it's trying to help you prove that true. So it's going to filter out all the positive things you know in that, and so then you are seeing more negative and then it does truly feel like this always happens to me, or everybody's, like this all men cheat, all women cheat, whatever those like blanket statements we start to get, because that's what we're seeing. It's like that social media feed.

Speaker 3: 35:24

You know I looked at dogs and now for three weeks I've been filtering through videos of dogs, right, so it's sort of the same thing, yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:33

Yeah, it's so true. And underneath all of this, I guess I'm sort of guessing maybe you can help me to clarify this, shannon but that shame is underneath a lot of this, that toxic shame that I'm not enough just as I am, that can sometimes exist for a lot of people, which then just feels this insecurity that's coming through in different areas of, of, of the, in the relationship and also just in life. What's something that you would say could really help somebody who actually can now witness that that exists in them? Like, how do we actually start to move through the process of, of, of, of maybe dissolving shame?

Speaker 3: 36:17

Yeah, such a good question. And it's usually where people get stuck is because I, you know, usually they're saying, okay, I'm trying everything, I'm I'm thinking positive thoughts. I decided like, okay, tonight I'm just no matter what happens, I'm not going to get jealous, we're going to go to dinner, I'm not going to look to see who's in the room, I'm just, I'm going to focus on my partner. And then yeah, there's, you know, the hostess is attractive and it's all over right, like that's gone. I'm weird in it.

Speaker 3: 36:55

And that is because we're trying to do it with our conscious mind. We're trying. That's a conscious desire that we have of I'm going to just like will myself, I'm going to try to want it enough. And that's the thing. Your conscious mind cannot, at will, overpower your subconscious mind, and it's as plain as that. But we keep trying to accomplish it through these conscious desires, through these goals that we're trying to set for ourselves.

Speaker 3: 37:25

And again, going back to that analogy of the GPS, it's still okay, you may have taken a detour, it's going to come right back. And so our beliefs are what are driving all of our behavior. So we have to change that belief, to change the behavior, and it's as simple as that. So I have to learn, through repetition plus emotion, the same way it got there, that I am worthy. I have to learn, through repetition plus emotion, that I am good enough, that I actually have myself, who can never abandon me, and so that's. I need to take care of my own needs and myself and have those beliefs about myself. So, um, it's simple, but it's a process right, yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1: 38:18

I'm curious is that, when you're talking about repetition plus emotion, is that what your signature pattern rope kind of technique involves? Is that the type of work that you do? Yeah?

Speaker 3: 38:28

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:28

So that really is showing kind of how, you know, when we, yes, when we're trying to do things like okay, we may have had this thing happened, and you know, that kind of creates this knot or this, like okay, now I'm, I'm blocked in what I want to do. And then okay, here's another one, here's something else that happened. That's another like kind of you know link in the, in the rope or the chain of okay, here's something else, another block for me. And what we find is, if I'm just trying to, like you know, just pull and tug on that to undo that knot, that's not going to work and in fact it gets tighter, right, it gets harder. What we have to do is like, where is the pattern? What is the pattern? Where is that lie? How is it formed?

Speaker 3: 39:16

And then, okay, now I can start to. Okay, I've got to realize that this is up to me and it's a me issue. I have to realize that I've been trying to do this on a conscious level. That's why it's not working Doesn't mean that I'm not, I can't do this thing or I'm never going to get past this. It just means I've been going out of the wrong way. And so then, as we see those types of things, then it gets easier. And now, okay, my next problem. I know a little bit better kind of how to untie that knot versus, you know the hard way, control and you know trying to do it through our conscious mind.

Speaker 1: 39:54

so yeah, force and grinding. I can do this, that's right that willpower thing again, like I can do it yeah yeah, and then the failure comes, and then the self-belief goes back, and yeah, and it cycles round and round.

Speaker 3: 40:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:09

Yeah, interesting, yeah, and I do.

Speaker 2: 40:17

I encourage anyone who is maybe ready or thinking about doing some of this work to just really pay attention to that last conversation that we just had just then, because you can try to do it on your own.

Speaker 2: 40:26

I highly recommend you get some help and I really think like I'm an advocate of this because I had to get help, so you know, and that was in in so many areas of my healing journey. Uh, I think that I can do healing on my own now, but it's way easier. I find personally that if I get someone to help and guide me, especially through a process that is involving the unconscious mind and all of these knots that you speak about that are sitting in there, it's it can take some real introspective work. So, yeah, I just want to say thank you, shannon, for doing the work that you do, and it's amazing. You're actually like really not only helping heal individuals from their own suffering, but you're actually like, when you zoom out, what you're actually doing is you're helping relationships to be happier and healthier and therefore a happy family existence, and then the next generation won't have so many of these wounds and these traumas that they're going to have to unravel Right.

Speaker 3: 41:21

Right, that's exactly right. Yeah, and thank you so much. I appreciate you know what you, what you both, are doing as well. And yeah, I mean, sometimes, yes, are there things we can do on our own, but sometimes it just helps to have the other person go well, have you considered it this way? Or have you thought about this, like I have this saying called the power of one. You know, power of one, o N E, open to new examples, experiences, explanations, all of that. So it's like helping someone to just I'm so used to thinking about it this way Just that other person going well, what about? Have you thought about this way? Sometimes that's just all you need. You know, amy, you could say something, you know one way and that might just so click for someone, and I may. I've said it 10 times and it didn't. So it just, sometimes it just helps to have that other person 100%.

Speaker 1: 42:12

Yeah, it's so powerful. I love that. And then I love coming into community and helping and and supporting and that's what I think. Sometimes we feel so alone in these things, you know, like you know the shame or the guilt or the or the jealousy or the envy we all feel. We can feel so alone. But I just encourage the listeners, if you are in that space and you are struggling with something in relationship there, to actually reach out. There is so much support out there now. I think we're so grateful and blessed to be able to have a community where this is growing, this industry is growing and and there is a lot of people, whoever you resonate with, can can get you to that next step in life, to let go of those knots and undo them and unravel them.

Speaker 2: 42:50

So yeah well, shannon, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. We're so blessed and lucky um to have met you and and to be introduced to to some of the work that you're involved in. For the listeners who have only just met you, how can they find out more about where you are, what you do, how they can access you?

Speaker 3: 43:09

oh, yeah, well, you so much, and thanks for bringing this space and a platform for somebody to be able to hear this and go. Oh my gosh, I thought I was the only one. I'm not. I heard this and thank you guys for giving us space for that. I really appreciate it. If anyone wants to find out more, they can go to topselfcom that's the website or I'm on Instagram. That's probably my favorite at Top Self Coach, and so I'd love to see everyone there.

Speaker 1: 43:40

Yeah, beautiful, and we can also put them in the show notes as well. So, yeah, thank you so much again. It's been such a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 43:47

Yeah, thank you, shannon.

Speaker 1: 43:48

Thank you.