Thrive Again - Your relationship podcast

5 Reasons Traditional Marriage Counselling Doesn't Work. And What To Do Instead

• Michael & Amy • Season 1 • Episode 49

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Traditional marriage counseling often scratches the surface of relationship issues, leaving deeper-rooted problems unresolved. We've lived through the frustrations of ineffective therapy sessions, and in our latest episode, we promise to share a revolutionary perspective that can truly transform your relationship dynamics. We challenge the conventional methods that focus on surface-level conversations and instead, dive into the heart of control dynamics and the lasting impact of past family experiences on current behaviors. Discover why addressing these root causes is crucial for sustainable growth and how both partners' active participation is key to healing and building a stronger bond.

We're excited to introduce our Root Cause Relationship Healing Approach and the 12-week Reconnected Union online program. These initiatives are crafted to empower couples to nurture long-term relationship growth without relying on constant professional intervention. We'll show you how a committed effort from both partners, especially when one is initially resistant, can lead to meaningful change. If you're ready to take a closer look at our work and explore how our program can redefine your relationship, we invite you to connect with us for a deeper understanding. We extend our gratitude to our listeners and anticipate continuing this journey of relationship enhancement with you.

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Speaker 1:

1, 2, 3, 4 couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of Thrive Again, your Relationship Podcast. Both of us are here today, as usual, and how's it all going, amy?

Speaker 1:

It's great, thank you. I'm sure I say that every episode that you ask me how I'm going.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's good, then. That means I'm doing a good job, if you're great.

Speaker 1:

Or I just do like everybody else does and just has a generalized answer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah well, I mean, you can answer it in a couple of different ways, can't you? But it depends on who's at the receiving end. Because, if you're at Woolworths and you just have the checkout and you just want to sit there and ponder with the other person about how am I really feeling, Then perhaps they're not ready for that.

Speaker 1:

Perhaps they're not.

Speaker 2:

So in this episode.

Speaker 1:

It's a bit awkward when you ask me that in the beginning of these episodes, too right. It's kind of like how am I? Well, I don't really want to tell the audience, like all my stories which what they are.

Speaker 2:

Well, let's drop into the episode then.

Speaker 1:

Let's do that.

Speaker 2:

Let's forget your stories. We'll just shove them away for now. Okay, thanks, let's push them down.

Speaker 1:

All right, let's talk about what we're talking about today.

Speaker 2:

Well, what we're talking about, folks, is a controversial headline right, which is five reasons traditional marriage counseling doesn't work.

Speaker 1:

We're just dropping a bombshell here well, it's like it seems quite relevant, right, because we have had both ends of the story recently in our work. We've had a couple that have come to us after working for two years with a traditional marriage counsellor and not seeing a great deal of change or progress or difference in their relationship, and then we've also been kind of on the other end, where a couple's like I think we're just going to go do some marriage counselling and see if that helps us. But yeah, so hence why I think it's really important topic to bring up and it's not to, you know, bad mouth or put down traditional marriage counseling, but I guess it's just highlighting the point of difference where we do things differently with our coaching and our relationship work compared to the traditional way.

Speaker 2:

Right. So just to reiterate also, what you're saying is that we're not jumping on some sort of hierarchical kind of position here and saying, oh, we're better and we do things differently and we get the results. What I'm feeling about this is that traditional marriage counseling may have a one-dimensional approach which is allowing space for each individual to share and to talk openly, when normally the other would shut the other partner down and then it would just turn into heated conflict. So there are huge benefits to that for some couples. But what we found is for the majority of couples there are complexities in their relationship where a limited one-dimensional change, such as keeping the other one quiet while one speaks up, is not the the best approach to healing a relationship long term, yeah, long term, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that's where I feel like our point of difference is the way that we work is ideally we want.

Speaker 1:

We don't want our couples to keep coming to us for two years you know, ideally we'd like to set up our couples with, within, you know, six months to try and have a completely different foundation, a completely different way and outlook at how that they work in relationship now with their partner. So, yeah, so it's a long-term game for what our approach does, compared to the continual show up every week, discuss your problems, keep coming back, keep coming back.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and this couple recently that we worked with. They did two years worth of marriage counseling. They spent over twelve thousand dollars and actually he told me that he feels that they are worse at the end of that. So it can't. And I know this is only one scenario, but we've had many and um and so, yeah, it's. It's just anecdotal evidence in a way for us that we see time and time again. So that's why we thought let's do an episode on it and we just want to highlight the reasons why traditional marriage counseling doesn't work, and then we're going to help you guys with what to do instead.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, awesome. So should we go into, like, maybe the first point about why it doesn't work and what we've found through working with couples is traditional counselling focuses too much on just the talking, the surface level issues, and actually doesn't take enough action on how to make those changes. What do you need to do instead?

Speaker 2:

on how to make those changes. What do you need to do instead? Yeah, yeah, absolutely so as a therapist. Often we are, we're put into this position where they lean on us to hold the safety net or the safety container so each of them can express, and that's really helpful in the short term, but when, when they go home and they don't have the safety net anymore, it can get really tricky. So for us, like we look at the deeper emotional patterns, and it's not just for us to see and then diagnose and fix, it's for us to see, help them to witness it too in each other and then help them to really find ways to nurture each other, to look after each other, to create safety within the relationship bubble, so that they don't need that therapist there anymore absolutely, and I think traditional counselling goes into like, look at, you did this, he did that, we did that, you did this and tries to look at the top surface behaviour and then stop doing that.

Speaker 1:

you should try this, but we're forgetting about the root cause, which is obviously moving on to our second point, I guess is actually looking at the root cause of why these behaviors are showing up in the first place and how do we identify those and then change that behavior from there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah for sure. And I think that when we have a look at these behaviors that are coming out, we see these as surface level, but underneath it is a deeper calling like I don't trust you, right, and that's why I need to micromanage you, or I don't feel respected and that's why I need to overpower you, and so there are deeper themes that come underneath which then cause the behaviors. And so if we're just looking at the nitty gritty of the overpowering statement that you make, that hurts me, then that can be helpful to bring awareness to that particular behavior, but underneath it, that person is still suffering. That person is still hurting because they're experiencing that primary emotion or that need that's not being met for them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, 100%, and it will always show up in relationships, because this is where we spend a lot of time. We're living together.

Speaker 1:

We're together on weekends, so therefore, those core wounds or those triggers, those emotions that are not being healed, are going to show up in our relationship. So that's why it's really important to go a little bit deeper, to actually look at some of those triggers and wounds and how they can be playing out and impacting negatively on the relationship. I don't know, do you want to share, like, something that we've discovered about our relationship with those core wounds that might be helpful for our audience?

Speaker 2:

Sure, I'll let you start.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so, yeah. So I think that for me some of you guys might have heard this before but there's this need for control. You know, like I've for many years, as, growing up with my parents, I watched my mum manage and control and have to step into, I guess, the masculine role in the house, because dad was busy working and he had his own stuff going on, so I watched mum manage everything. She would boss us around, put us all in order, you do this, you do that, go over there. But, I added, as a child I thought that was normal.

Speaker 1:

But that behavior that that I guess you could say is a bit of a trauma that I experienced from that type of micromanaging and controlling has then continued with me through life. And I started doing it in this relationship and even as a mother I would do it, so I would control and micromanage and take over things that you would do, which then led to emasculating you, not allowing you to be the male in the relationship, because I didn't know any different and I just continued on that journey of my own pattern of or program that I was installed or program that I was installed. So until we start to kind of look at those deeper dynamics in relationships and why those behaviors of, say, for example, control which created havoc for you. You know it shut you down.

Speaker 2:

But I also want to say that, yeah, it did create havoc for me, but it was also the perfect mirror for me and my wound, which was around inadequacy and not feeling good enough. So for you to control me and for you to highlight to me that I'm not good enough through your behavior. Of course, that caused toxic behavior for me, but what it did do, was it really highlighted to me that, oh, I've got a trigger there, like when you tell me that I haven't done something good enough or you just take over, then, yeah, I'm going to get emotional. So that's an interesting area for us to dig into the root cause, and that's one area that I just don't. I don't see enough of that urgency to go deeper in the space of therapy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I hope that kind of gives a bit of context yeah, that's kind of the deeper work that michael and I help to identify in your relationships, because when we get to the root cause, we can start to witness it and observe it and, instead of like creating havoc or upset or conflict in the relationship, it actually can create connection because, we can see compassion, and for your partner, oh shit, that was something that happened to them as a child and now they're still doing that and they're trying to get better at it.

Speaker 1:

So how can I support them with it as opposed to, you know, creating all sorts of drama? Yes, so yeah, so hence why it's important to look at the root cause. That's a long-winded answer with that we got there, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So the third reason why marriage, traditional marriage counseling, doesn't work is it assumes both partners are ready for so. In most models, really actually in most scenarios, there's often one partner who's a little more resistant or disengaged, and traditional therapy can kind of become this exhausting cycle yeah, we've seen it before.

Speaker 1:

Hey, like you're dragged along, you coming to counseling with me, whether you like it or not that's right, and they're just demanding change and their partner is resisting more and more.

Speaker 2:

And maybe they only have one therapist and often, statistically speaking, it's a woman. So therefore, often the other sex is feeling like they're kind of maybe a little bit isolated, maybe ganged up on. And that can be really tricky as well. So actually what?

Speaker 2:

what really needs to happen here is firstly, drill is really working with the engaged partner, you know, the one who's the pursuing the relationship, healing more and seeing if we can make inroads through them so that the other can be more open to receiving right. Because if we're just going to push this stuff down someone's throat, you should be changing. You should be doing this actually like they're probably going to become more resistant to change yeah, it causes more harm, but that's what I think I mean.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I am going to blow my own trumpet here, but I think that's our point of big point of difference is that often, when we see this too like it's often, let's be real it's often the female that comes to us and says look, I want to work with you guys, or I need some help, or our relationship is struggling, but my partner's not interested and I don't know how to get him on board or don't know what to do. Then this is where Michael would come in and and have it, have some discussion or offer some support for the man who has that resistance, so then he can kind of start to see the benefit of working in the relationship space, not just for the relationship but for themselves and how they're feeling and their energy as well. So I think that's a huge part where we can. We don't ever work with a couple unless they're both in. That's a big thing and I think it's always has been with us, right? We?

Speaker 1:

always like are you in our first initial free call? Like are you committed, are you wanting to do this work? Because it's not something that you just invest in and show up for. You actually have to do some work, because it's not something that you just invest in and show up for. You actually have to do some big changes and shifts to get their relationship that you desire. So, therefore, it's kind of something that we have to encourage right from the beginning is to get that buy-in, to get the, the commitment from both partners that they want to do that.

Speaker 2:

Hence why Michael and I work deeply before we start working together yeah, and often that's that, those conversations that I might have with him, they don't. They don't result in us working together you know, and so, but I, I offer free resources. We offer so many, so much time to those who just need some inroads, and so I just want to be clear that that doesn't always lead to um coaching with us it's just that.

Speaker 2:

Hey, I'm here to help and we've got so many resources that sometimes it's just the fact that he's so stressed and he just needs um like some advice on how to manage himself emotionally, and then everything else falls into place and he doesn't need to do anything with us yeah and I've been there, so I get it.

Speaker 2:

I understand what that's like so um yeah, so yeah, both partners need to be ready for change. We've knocked back that many couples because we just can't see that they're both 100 in, so we just say sorry, like until you both really want it, like we can't help you, yeah, but then we do support that other partner too, right, and we've seen changes in that.

Speaker 1:

So the partner that does want to change because we do offer the one-on-one support too sometimes that's all they need to shift that dynamic in a relationship, so there is other options there too.

Speaker 2:

All right. Number four it's too focused on the past and not the present and the future, or it's too focused on the past and not the present and the future. So that is often what happens the circulating of the past and the pain that you put me through back then and the resentment keeps getting cycled in this monologue, often Of like well, when you did this, I was really hurt and that's why I'm still bitter and twisted now and you've got to remember, like how the mind actually works, is that whether you're thinking about the past or the future.

Speaker 2:

If you're experiencing the past, for example, and it's painful, then you're experiencing it now in your body. So if we're constantly circulating back to painful past memories and we're not able to kind of move through them effectively, then what we're doing is we're continually activating each other in that fight or flight or freeze response.

Speaker 1:

And we're just strengthening that story.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's just like you know, cementing in the hurt that we both experienced. It's like cutting the wound deeper. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So moving to the present and what it is that we want to create in the future are actually like hallmark offerings that we have in our couples programs as well is we like? We need to start from the ground up with redesigning what each other need and want, moving forward, and that's actually going to give a sense of hope, right, that the future can be bright and it doesn't need to be the same as what it has been up until this point.

Speaker 2:

We get to recreate and totally reclaim a whole new chapter in our life together. That's what happened with us yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

But but also let's just think about traditional counseling. Like you said, it is very focused on the past and the stories and the drama, but it also I find it doesn't give practical skills or steps of how to overcome or heal from those past hurts or past traumas in the relationship. So the healing is definitely what we do. Yes, I love that we look at the future and recreate it, but as time goes through, we also definitely it's important to go back and, when there's enough safety in the relationship to heal those deep wounds from the past with practical skills and strategies. We've got a technique or a strategy that we share that will help you every time to heal anything without those big conflicts coming back up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I wouldn't say every time yeah. But it's definitely helpful Absolutely, and often for those deeper wounds you do need guidance, like, yeah, I feel like if there is a deep wound that causes a lot of tension there, I think you need guidance.

Speaker 1:

I really do, yeah, yeah yeah, cool, all right, and the fifth one so the last one that traditional counseling kind of fails in that we've found anyway from our work is that it lacks a clear framework for growth. So the the framework for traditional counseling is quite open-ended. It kind of leaves them stuck in this loop of the story continuing but no real resolution or solution. And it feels great, let's be honest, it feels great to offload and dump all of the story, but often it hasn't left the body, it's just still sitting in our body and it's still, you know, in our cells and it hasn't moved or felt like it's been healed. So that's what our process does is like, because we use emotional focus therapy and embodiment work and nervous system regulation and these actually provide the actionable steps for rebuilding this intimacy and rebuilding this connection that has been broken, for rebuilding this intimacy and rebuilding this connection that has been broken.

Speaker 2:

So, um, yeah, I think it's important to note that, that this, our journey with us, is a little bit more deeper than what you ever get at traditional counseling yeah, bang on, and we're piggybacking off the amazing sue johnson who was the founder of emotional focus therapy, who sadly passed away last year, but, um, but some of her work. Well, actually, that body of work has now been recognized as the most sustainable way of healing a relationship hands down, research is just showing it. There's so much body of evidence now and um and so, yeah, just I cannot. I cannot back it enough, and especially when it's research-backed. It's not some woo-woo type intervention or way of healing, it's a proven method that has process to it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so we team that up with our own breath work that I've learned and a whole holistic approach to the relationship more than just a one-sided approach. Yeah, Cool.

Speaker 2:

So hopefully that gave you an insight into where the limitations can exist in a one-dimensional approach and, yeah, also some insights into what possibly really needs to be introduced to have a multifaceted approach to this so that we're taking it from different angles depending on where the vulnerabilities are in the connection. Right, because sometimes behavioral changes is all. All that's needed, right is is looking at gotman method, for example, which you know we've we've done some study through. If it's just behavioral change that needs to happen, we're just weeding the garden of some behaviors that were unconscious, and that's the change that needs to happen to help them to soften and see each other with that lightness again. Amazing, because that can happen. But often when people are deeply kind of in this troublesome scenario with their connection, there's more parts to it. It's just that they can't see it because they're in the soup of struggle.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely yeah. So just remembering that you know couples that are struggling, you aren't broken.

Speaker 1:

It's just that. You just need a different approach on how to work through the challenges so you can repair and move forward. And you know, if you're in this space and wanting to get some support, I really encourage you to take maybe one step today by trying one of our free resources, which we've got a whole bunch on our website now they're all loaded in there, giving something a go. That might just start to shift your thinking a little or obviously reaching out, but I think it's really important to share our powerful 12-week online program with you guys. It's a really affordable way to get these strategies and tools and also do the deep healing at the same time, without the big price.

Speaker 1:

Without the big price tag. Yeah, you know, I think we've put all of our work over the last five years in the relationship space into this program and we really see the benefits of couples who turn towards their relationship and start to make some of these shifts and changes. And that's just a 12-week online program, the reconnected union. If you're interested, there's more details on our website. But also you can always give us a quick message and we can jump on a call. But yeah, we really appreciate you guys listening and tuning in and I hope you found that episode helpful to understand a little bit more about, I guess, how we work as well.

Speaker 2:

Beautiful thanks for listening, folks, and we'll catch you on the next episode.