Thrive Again - Your relationship podcast

What If Your Breakup Is Actually Your Breakthrough? A Conversation With Breakup Coach Janice Formichella

• Michael & Amy • Season 1 • Episode 57

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Ever wondered why breakups hurt so physically and mentally? There's real science behind your post-breakup brain fog – studies show your IQ can temporarily drop by up to 25% during heartbreak!

Breakup coach Janice Formichella joins us for an eye-opening conversation about the neuroscience of heartbreak and how ending a relationship can become a catalyst for profound personal transformation. Drawing from her own journey from Mormon marriage to domestic violence survivor to empowered coach, Janice shares insights that reframe breakups as opportunities rather than failures.

"Breaking up with someone creates withdrawal symptoms neurologically similar to drug addiction," Janice explains. "When you look at pictures of your ex, the same parts of your brain light up as an addict seeing their substance." This biological reality explains why maintaining no-contact feels nearly impossible for many – you're literally going through withdrawal.

But here's where hope emerges. The post-breakup period offers fertile ground for self-discovery and growth. "The one relationship you should put on a pedestal is the one with yourself," Janice reminds us. "You wake up with yourself every single day." Learning to be your own best company doesn't just heal heartbreak – it transforms how you'll approach future relationships.

We tackle practical questions too: When are rebound hookups helpful versus harmful? How do you co-parent with an ex you struggle to be around? And most importantly, how do you know when you're truly ready to date again?

Whether you're nursing a broken heart or supporting someone through theirs, this episode provides both compassionate understanding and actionable strategies. Listen now to discover how your breakup might actually be your breakthrough.

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Speaker 1:

Janice Formichella is a breakup dating coach and podcast producer. She works one-on-one with individuals around the world to heal from a broken heart and turn the end of a relationship into the beginning of a powerful new chapter in life. As a former member of the Mormon Church, a domestic violence survivor and someone who considers herself to have hit rock bottom more than once, janice thrives off using her story to help others. In this episode, we dive deep into how breakups can seriously affect our neurology and how they can also be the catalyst for personal transformation. Let's do it. One, two, three, four.

Speaker 2:

We're Michael and Amy, your couples connection coaches. Our mission is to help couples thrive using a conscious and holistic approach. This podcast is for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving all right, janice formichella, welcome to our thrive again, your relationship podcast.

Speaker 1:

it's so good to have you on here and I'm so looking forward to to really pulling apart some some dynamics that a lot of people sort of have to deal with and grapple with. And before we get into all of the nuts and bolts of everything we're going to go through, I'd love for you to just give us a little introduction about who you are like, how you actually got into this space, and that way we can get some context as to how you're actually helping people in this space.

Speaker 3:

My pleasure and thank you so much for having me, michael and Amy, I've been looking forward to this. I am a breakup and dating coach and I originally started doing breakup coaching exclusively and now it has expanded. I help people with healthy relationships, dating again after breakups, dating optimization and things like that. But my original passion, yes, was breakup coaching, and I'm still still loving it a few years in. I originally got the idea to be a breakup coach. Before there were not, before there weren't very many. I'm so happy that there are a lot of people now supporting others going through breakups, but at the time, one of the reasons I did think to do it was well, first of all, I've had a very kind of crazy, crazy life. I was raised a Mormon and ended up getting married really, really young, and by the time we were nearing our thirties is when we got divorced. So we're getting divorced when a lot of people haven't even gotten married yet, and it was definitely like a worst case scenario for me. All of my plans and my decisions, my reality, my future were somehow tied up in the marriage. But it also was not working. I had to walk away and I originally, like I said, thought about breakup coaching, because I was very fortunate to be living in New York amongst this kind of women's spirituality community, and several of the women in this community were life coaches, as you know. The field got a little a little inundated there and I just didn't really know how to move forward, and so I was lucky enough to have this type of mentorship through my divorce, but it was more, it was life coaching. And then so I thought to myself, like how cool would it be to have a life coach specializing in breakups? Well, move forward.

Speaker 3:

A few years after that I'd gotten into another relationship, which actually I'm a survivor of domestic violence, and my first relationship after my divorce was very violent. When I finally was able to end it which is a whole cycle, as I'm sure both of you know at that time then I had pretty much no support. So I went from one breakup with lots of support and to another breakup which was equally devastating, with people just completely exhausted by the situation, my own parents not really offering any support or encouragement, friends who I drifted away from because of the isolation, and, you know, broke not able to hire a coach this time, and you know, broke not able to hire a coach this time and I thought then again, it would be really great if you could hire someone to provide outside support for a breakup, because now I'm completely alone and I would do anything if that was available. So I had two different experiences which taught me the importance of support. Fast forward many years later and I finally went through the coaching certification during the pandemic actually and, yeah you know, invested in making the dream and the passion of mine come true.

Speaker 3:

Talk about a nutshell, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you've done well. I'm sure there's so much more I'd love to dig into there as well. And I'm kind of curious. I guess you were saying with that first breakup how you had the support when you were going through that and having that support. How did that help you? What? Why was that, you know, useful for you to have that?

Speaker 3:

One thing that immediately comes to mind is again I use the word I think fortunate earlier is again I use the word I think fortunate earlier. And another thing that made me fortunate was I had a couple older friends and mentors and support. Who were these really, really strong women who happened to also be going through divorces? I mean the woman who became my life coach. I just finished a divorce. The woman who I was nannying for, who was a member of this community, was going through a divorce waltzed. I was nannying for her and that really helped. We kind of all you know rallied around each other and supported one another and that is something that I bring to my breakup.

Speaker 3:

Coaching is I do, with clients consent, talk a lot about my own experience and that was a great support to me, I have to say and also just kind of taking for granted that there was going to be someone there to to talk to and to offer support, really just put my mind at ease and I, like I said, I didn't have that the second time around. I would wake up during my divorce knowing I was going to be supported and that I had resources, and then to feel in complete absence of that. I knew that there was a difference and that that was important for people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I get that. What was important about that support for you? What helped or what was some of the things that you got from that support from those other women?

Speaker 3:

Well, one reason it was important is because, like I said this, getting divorced was something that I never fathomed Of course, I don't think anyone does when they get married but I was just completely at a loss for what my life was going to be like, and so it was helpful that I could see that other women had gone through this and had continued to make something out of their life. And as far as the actual coaching goes, that is when I developed a love for the coaching process, because it gives you a structure, it gives you accountability, it gives somebody who is not in the midst of what you're going through with less emotionality to provide guidance and suggestions and and check-ins. And when you're in the midst of a breakup and a divorce, you feel so confused and stressed out. I mean, a divorce is, you know, a lot of people know is one of the most stressful things you can go through, and it is hard to even think straight, and so that is why I really enjoyed the coaching process.

Speaker 1:

Right, so it's it's kind of like you have this outside view point of view of this person's chaos, right where they're just going through a divorce, and you can be almost like the guiding light through that process, so that person can actually just almost surrender to you know to, to just like knowing that, hey, I'm in a stressful situation, I'm not coping so well, hey, I need help, I'm anxious, I'm confused, I'm lost.

Speaker 1:

Can you help, guide me and navigate? Help me navigate through through this turmoil and, and I think that, like for me, I, I just have seen that that's so helpful even in our coaching and and because you know we have, we have that like sometimes we work with couples and then they, they, they split up because it's probably supposed to happen, and then now we have two individuals, um, often one feels more lost than the other, and so that guidance and that support becomes really necessary when they're in the turmoil. And do you, I guess my question is, do you, do you find that some people can actually get, um, like they can fast track the process of recalibration into back into alignment again and back into clarity through having a coach and through having guidance?

Speaker 3:

then, yeah, in fact sometimes I think it's too effective because a lot of the time I have clients make just rapid, rapid progress once they realize that there's hope.

Speaker 3:

When you've gotten to a point where you're actually looking for resources and reaching out to a coach, you've got a little spark of determination and spark of of of faith. And then to actually sit down on zoom chat with someone who's been there, who knows what she's talking about and who you, you know is talking to you about actionable steps, I have honestly seen people's physical appearance almost completely change between our, you know, initial intake and then you know, the second call, just because of the relief and the hope that that comes into them. And it is also really beautiful, like you were saying, kind of surrender to the process, because a lot, if not almost every, of my clients come into it not really knowing exactly what it means to do breakup coaching or what it involves, and it it's a complete honor and a privilege to have people say I'm just going to trust the process and to see someone being so positive about it I think gives people a lot of relief.

Speaker 1:

Tell us a little bit about what's happening then, if that's okay, janice, what's happening physiologically and neurologically and everything for these people that are going through turmoil like this when they've had a divorce or they're going through a breakup? Let's say like, can you give us an understanding of what's actually happening to them?

Speaker 3:

Yes, thank you, and this is one of my favorite topics and, again, this is why coaching is so effective is because there is something called breakup brain that is similar to mommy brain, which some people will will be aware of, and that is, yes, neurological, physical, obviously emotional challenges and experiences that you were going through, either because of the shock, possibly because of feelings of rejection, possibly because having your life suddenly changed, sometimes because of grief, anger, and these are things during the course of a breakup that will make it hard for you to focus.

Speaker 3:

Some people experience rage, some people experience a lot of forgetfulness I went through that Like the number of times I left my keys somewhere, or my wallet or any number of things.

Speaker 3:

A lot of people feel confusion, sleeplessness or oversleeping, and these are all, yes, dynamics of breakup, breakup brain. In fact, one of my favorite facts about breakup brain is that there's been multiple university studies done with people in the in the midst of this, who experienced a lowered IQ during um, during the breakup and the fallout, and in fact, I've even heard that it can be up to 25%, which that's that's pretty significant, but I mean, think about it the last time that you were, you know, either feeling rejected by someone or had your life completely shattered. I don't know if anyone out there or if either of you can say that you've hit rock bottom in your life. I know I did twice and it is completely debilitating. I mean, you can't see the forest for the trees and that's why having coaching helps. And yeah, I mean really feeling like you're going crazy and it is partially because you are in many respects.

Speaker 2:

Is there any particular like? I don't know, like the psychology of it? What is happening to the brain in those times? Do you have any understanding of actually what's going on?

Speaker 3:

Well, a couple of things, and the first of which being that it is very true, and it is talked about a lot in the breakup space that trying to wean yourself from an ex-partner is very, very, very similar to weaning yourself from a drug, as is just the addiction that we form with a person, I mean, even if it's not an unhealthy addiction. When you're with someone, you are forming your day around them, you are very used to communicating with them, possibly during certain times of the day, et cetera, and so, try, it's very, very similar to a drug withdrawal and there have been also many studies that have actually, you know, looked at the brain and studied people going through breakups or looking at pictures of their exes and, you know seeing what parts of the brain light up when you

Speaker 3:

know they see the picture and it is, you know, the same parts of the brain that will light up it, with addicts who are, you know, thinking about the drug or seeing the drug. So that's, and that is one thing. And that is why this whole no contact rule is so talked about is because if you're addicted to a substance, you need to get away from it, and so if you're addicted to a person and if engaging with this person is causing you pain, it's best to probably stop engaging with them. But people, some people find it impossible. They tell themselves that it is and that they just can't help themselves.

Speaker 3:

And that's another reason breakup coaching is great, because a lot of us actually allow our clients to keep in touch with us in between sessions so that if you have an urge to reach out, or if you do, you have someone to you know, root for you and get you back on track and there's also go ahead.

Speaker 2:

Sorry, yeah, I was just saying it's like going cold turkey.

Speaker 3:

It's like that whole yeah, which is hard, yeah, and I mean it's painful for people too, and I'm not, I mean, and not everyone is able to or allows themselves to, and again, some people will tell me in our intake sessions, you know, like I just I haven't been able to stop. And then I came across your podcast and you're talking about no contact and so I decided I needed, I needed help. But even besides not engaging with the person, I mean looking at old text messages, photos, social media. These are things that people say that they just can't help themselves and it's because you get the hit.

Speaker 3:

Even if it's a negative hit, you're still getting a hit. When you look at the picture, have an angry text exchange something like that yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1:

And and there's this like confirmation bias that can happen in our brains when we're in that state where our minds is focusing on um, worst case scenario, for example. Let's just say, like that broken up. Well, now I want to see if, if she's been, or he's been, cheating on me, and I'm just going to look for evidence of that. And it's so easy to go down this rabbit hole of just, you know, just just looking for evidence and looking for kind of like, like was this happening? Like why was it so sudden? What's happened? And then so the stress response, like for that person, is heightened so much and they'll create a story within themselves and that in itself is almost like this drug frenzy, you know, and it becomes this rabbit hole and maybe even take days off work. Yeah, completely.

Speaker 3:

I mean you're unable to think of, of anything, anything else sometimes that's right, and also, what I see too happening is what you said about self-fulfilling prophecy is, sadly, I will have a lot of clients who say that perhaps the fact that it's taking so long to get over the person, or the fact that they do want to reach out so badly, or they can't stop looking at the pictures, is actually because the relationship was meant to be, is actually because the relationship was meant to be, and so you know it wouldn't be so hard to get over them if, if, if it wasn't meant to be, and so maybe you know we should try and work it out or just filling yourself up with more and more regret that things ended because you're struggling so much and you want to be struggling if it hadn't, if it hadn't ended, and so again, that's where getting the objective, support can come in handy.

Speaker 2:

You get trapped in this cycle. Hey, like you. Just, you know I'll go back, and then you go back and then you know, a few months later something else happens. But that addiction, hey, it's like. I remember I was listening to a podcast recently with Jay Shetty and he was talking about the exact same thing. You know, just that real addiction to that person, and it is. It's like quitting a drug. I have a question for you. I'm curious to know about this part while we're here Is that same situation that you're explaining for that person, like the experience and the turmoil that they're in? Is that the same experience for the dumper or the dumpy, you know, like the person that breaks it off, or is you know what I mean? Like? Is that the same situation if you're the one that's called it and said I don't want to be with you anymore, or you're on the receiving end of that?

Speaker 3:

Well, I've certainly worked with people on both sides of things for sure. I mean, consider if you're the one who ends it to get to the point where you realize that you need to walk away from something that is really painful. My divorce, this relationship just exploded in the end and I actually was the one who asked him to leave and filed for divorce. I was more devastated than I can even put into words. So I guess it is sometimes depends.

Speaker 3:

Sometimes with a divorce, people are just like so happy to walk away. So, like I said, I've seen I've seen both, both sides people who are you know tell me it just wasn't working. I'm not meant to be with this person, but I am just so sad about it. At the same time, breakup brain and some of the symptoms that I was talking about are a lot more severe. Where there is actual rejection involved and a lot of people who are dumped I hate that term but or or left, will have feelings of rejection and and that can, that can really, really really mess with your system, and so I do think, yeah, there it's. It can be more challenging for that reason gotcha yeah, totally it's.

Speaker 1:

It's like yeah, it's challenging the sense of self-worth for that person if they have especially a wound around rejection or abandonment, right. So this becomes this, this huge, all-encompassing, big questioning myself am I good enough? Am I pretty enough? Did I do the right things? Did I like what can I do better? Maybe I can still fix it.

Speaker 1:

Like this anxious sort of you know kind of mindset might start to come in and and uh, like you said, all-encompassing is a great word to describe that yeah, for sure. So so tell me, I mean, if, if there's been a breakup and they're in this, I don't know this kind of state where they, they know they need to break contact, right, and maybe they've even received guidance on that. It's like, hey, from from a best friend or something, just don't contact him, don't reach out anymore, don't contact her, right. But but then there's this, this like this desire to still want to contact, but it's kind of like that the drug addict sort of scenario. What is it that someone can do to help with that process, like if they were self-guided through this? Like, what are some tips or healthy strategies?

Speaker 3:

well, first getting to the point where you can believe that no contact is the right thing and have faith that, even though it's going to be hard in the beginning, ultimately it's going to help. I mean, that's a big part of lots of breakup healing is people have no faith that it's ever going to get any better. And I almost feel emotional because it just makes me so sad. And being able to help someone get to the point where they feel, even though it's not feeling good today to be going through this, I know it will get better and so if you can do anything to inspire yourself to get to that point, it's really really really the first, the first step. And then, as far as no contact goes, make a goal and and and keep to it. And that's another reason why it can actually be kind of fun and it can almost create like a snowball effect. If you say you're going to stay no contact for a month and then you do, your self-trust is going to go up, your confidence is going to go up, you will feel better.

Speaker 3:

I'm sorry, if you go a month without talking to your ex, there's no way you're not going to have some sort of relief and then you'll feel better and more confident. And maybe, do you know, another month, or maybe change something else in your life or, you know, maybe start to make improvements, start to think about your future and so, having faith, making a goal, sticking with it. I think it is good to have a person to to talk to about this and someone who is positive and encouraging you in quote, unquote the right direction. And that's sometimes also why a coach is useful, because our friends, I hope, are wonderful and they're not fully informed about the breakup process and sometimes really are pained to see you in pain and don't know what to do. And so that's.

Speaker 3:

You know, I think it can be good to have your friends, for, you know, girls, nights and happy hours and going out to dinner and maybe staying in nights and happy hours and going out to dinner, and maybe you know staying in but it's really good maybe to put some of the pressure of how to navigate it maybe on someone else who's not a friend and and so I think having, having maybe a friend or having a coach can be really useful useful as well and I think, developing some sort of new routine.

Speaker 3:

This has become the most basic breakup now or advice, but I'm sorry, it's just completely true. If you now have an absence of someone from your life and being used to interacting with them or used to your day with them, of course it's going to be a huge help to create a new routine so that you wake up knowing what to expect and fill it with other things other than this person and that can be really fun as well yeah, and will help you keep with no contact because you won't be getting waking up, thinking I need to send the good morning text because you'll be having maybe a brand new coffee or a walk or a playlist.

Speaker 3:

That could be as simple as that to focus on instead yeah, love it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you. They're great, great tips. Um, one question I've got if I've got an abandonment wound and I've I've just basically, you know, my partner's left me, then is it ever a good idea for me to go out and go and hook up with somebody else, like, and just get that I don't know whether it's just filling that void, at least temporarily for now, so I can feel okay in myself or get that confirmation is it ever a good idea to go on the rebound?

Speaker 3:

it can be and it cannot be. I love this. I I get to talk with a lot of people about this and there's no better answer that I can give. I think yes, definitely.

Speaker 3:

The first time I had sex with someone other than my husband, I felt so emboldened and I was ready for it. The relationship hadn't been working for a while. I was devastated, but mentally I was there. It filled me with excitement and made me feel things I hadn't felt in a while. So, yeah, it worked for me. I also have friends and clients who I am. I'm like, you know, let's really talk about this, because you know I'm not feeling like you might quite quite be there, and so it takes a lot of, I think, self-reflection and soul searching and and self-knowledge. I was just talking with someone the other day who hadn't had sex in a while and I was saying you know, a hookup can work. You know, do you want to talk about whether or not it can work for you? And you know just realizing, you know, if I had the sexual intimacy after so long, then I might find myself, you know, being becoming attached you know some people can compartmentalize and some can't.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, yes and no.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yes, and if anyone out there is curious, like let me know what your situation is, because this is something I love to dive into with people about whether or not the hookup might be for you what sort of things are you looking for in those people?

Speaker 2:

I'm curious to know, like, what are some of the? If they if they're ready or not for that hookup? Is there a few signs, or yeah?

Speaker 3:

some people are really honest with themselves and me that sexual intimacy creates an emotional attachment and so maybe, if you haven't ever, some people are less sexually experienced perhaps, and so really, really, really associate sex with with relationships.

Speaker 3:

And some people can have, you know, a little bit of space, and so I really think it's having an honest conversation with yourself, and maybe with a friend, about whether you actually think that you could separate, separate the two, and have fun with sex and then not have the expectations afterwards. Some people, a lot of people, just know that about themselves really.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're right yeah.

Speaker 3:

I mean, it's a big step to go and have a hookup, and so a lot of people are actually really willing to put thought into it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I like that. I think like a conscious hookup. You know, I'm consciously doing this to help myself. But I am going to be really getting educated about the situation first before I suggest anyone to do that A hundred percent, I understand, cause it could create all sorts of havoc if you're not in that position, and extra stress and pressure and all the other stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And on the flip side, some people. It's like a game changer for them, but it it depends. And neither is wrong, right or wrong Also like those just yeah, Be really clear about that as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm curious to know, janice, is there like I don't know, like a rough timeline for a breakup to last? Or, you know, is it like stages, or you know, for our listeners and our audience who are maybe I don't know even contemplating breaking up, what's the expectation, or the I guess, what to expect during that time and how long will that last?

Speaker 3:

So, no matter what any pop culture platform may say, I've not been able to pinpoint any type of time frame. I've had people contacting me before their breakup and I've had people contact me two years after.

Speaker 3:

And so it really depends on how intentional you are going to be. And you can see I get excited about this because you can heal if you are intentional about about doing so. And I think and again, it starts with the faith and then taking action A lot of people stay stuck because they feel so awful and they don't know what to do and they will just, you know, become their life, become a groundhog's day kind of waking up and just feeling horrible and missing the person, because when you have breakup brain, you have no idea what can possibly make you feel better. You feel like nothing can make you feel better. Um, so that's why it is really great that we've got all the online resources, the podcast, the coaches, uh, because if you seek out resources, then you can start to, you know, take matters into your own hands.

Speaker 3:

a lot of people don't, but the ones who do. I've seen it be pretty speedy I have a one month program and a three month program and I've.

Speaker 1:

Almost all people have completely beaten it with with that, with yeah yeah, and and like loneliness right, and some people have, um, it's almost like I will avoid loneliness at all costs, and so it's not just hooking up with someone. It's like oh, I need to replace this right now, because I don't know what it's like to be alone and I don't necessarily align being alone with being lonely. I think solitude can be helpful and I wonder whether you agree with that or whether you have differing views.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I pretty much have the same view, and overcoming loneliness is something that I speak a lot about, and I think you know it's not the being alone part that's the actual problem. It's the societal viewpoint about being alone, and that is that there's something wrong with you if you're single, and then, even more than that though, it's people's discomfort with it. A lot of people either jump from relationship to relationship, maybe haven't lived, haven't been single for a long period of time and just don't know what to do with themselves. And I think the longer that you can stay single, the more comfortable you can get as a single person, the more comfortable you are on your own, being your own best company, being your own best friend, being your own best date, the more confident you will become. And then ultimately I mean I know a lot of your listeners desire relationships, which is beautiful thing to desire Best relationships come when you are so solid as a single person.

Speaker 1:

I love that message. Yeah, yeah, so much truth. I know amy's got goosebumps right now too. Um, because, yeah, like I mean the, the one relationship that is the one that you should really be putting up on a pedestal, is the one with yourself, and and that's my only one who's gonna be there all the time yeah, all the time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you wake up with yourself every single day, guaranteed. So if I'm not happy with who that person is or I'm not yeah, I'm not really solid with that person then maybe that's my chance to heal. This is the opportunity. Yeah, it hurts. It hurts to look at myself in the mirror, for example. Then it's like, okay, cool. Why, or why, am I feeling so much unease with loneliness or why do I feel so lonely? Are there other areas in my life where I've felt lonely in the past, or felt isolated, or felt abandoned or rejected? And sitting with that discomfort is something that I think a lot of people veer away from just because of that.

Speaker 3:

The true nature is that us humans are more inclined to avoid pain than to move towards pleasure, and we can easily be distracted distracted and doing new things and overcoming loneliness is all is all about that yeah, yeah, beautiful and this is also why the period after a breakup is just like such a fertile, rich time and opportunity for growth and learning about yourself and learning about loneliness and becoming, you know, your own best friend, like I said, and really completely changing your life around, if you allow it to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, beautiful.

Speaker 3:

And that's the thing I mean. It doesn't have to break you. It can make you, but it's if you allow it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's so beautiful. I'd love to hear from you because I'm like thinking about my audience and they're like, okay, so you know they've gone through this breakup what are some of the signs or the steps that they are ready to kind of start dating again? How do you know like you've moved through this and what are the things that you're ready to kind of put yourself out there again? Is there anything that you can share with them?

Speaker 3:

Well, I really just want to reemphasize, I guess, everything we just said about loneliness and enjoying being single, that is. I have a few things that I can share, but that is the number one thing that I always say is, if you, you may be ready to date again. If you've been single long enough to enjoy being single because you know you're going to be okay, you've built up the confidence. If you are okay being single and being on your own, you will naturally make better choices in dating, because the moment that somebody doesn't feel right, or if somebody um violates your boundaries, or if you see the so-called red flags, or if it's you just don't see you know the compatibility you'll be more likely to walk away because the stakes are low. You know you're going to be just as just as good on your own.

Speaker 3:

And so, yeah, like I said, you naturally make better, better choices, which is what we want you to do if you're getting out there is to have happy, healthy relationships with happy, healthy people. So there's definitely that, I think, a lot of mindset and attitude. If you're ready to get back out there and you think it's going to be fun and also think that there's a likelihood that you will meet someone and that there are fun people out there to engage with, that's also a big sign. A lot of people go into dating again still completely jaded over their last breakup or hung up on their ex which that's another thing I'll talk about and also with this attitude of there's no one good left. All the women want one thing All the men are scum. No good people are on dating apps. It's hopeless. Stop, you're not ready. We need to go and do some more work.

Speaker 3:

So yes definitely attitude, and I mean obviously, being over your last breakup, I think that you can still have things to process and move through. I mean, maybe for a long time I'm a big therapy person and there could be things that you might want to talk with a counselor or coach about, for a while.

Speaker 3:

But if you really want to date again, you don't want to be thinking about your ex every day and have the breakup dominating a lot of space in your day. You want this to be mostly behind you. I mean, if your ex is still taking up space in your universe, you're not really going to have space for someone else. So those three things would be three places I would start.

Speaker 2:

Love that, thank you. I am curious because I've got a client in mind that I'm thinking about. But how do you I don't know if you work with many people like this, but have children, you know like have a divorce? I've got kids and they still have to see their ex right. They still have to have this interaction where they're dealing with kids and drop-offs, pickups, all that kind of stuff. Is there any tips or something for them? Because I feel like that's really hard to like if you're just dating and see you know you have breakups, see you later, but I feel like that's even more challenging for those people in that situation.

Speaker 3:

Yes, of course, and I have worked with a lot of people who have kids quite a few and yeah, there's different, different techniques and tactics that I use. If you're co-parenting and you can still limit contact considerably. I've done quite a bit of content on it and actually you're making me have make a little note, because this has come up a lot in my practice recently is people wanting to know how you co-parent with someone you can't stand.

Speaker 1:

And there's.

Speaker 3:

there's many things that you can do. You can limit it to almost, to almost nothing. Yes, you still have to engage with this person, but you can still do it in a way that gives you peace and allows you to heal, and allows you to show up for your children, both in the in the best way and and still be able to build new lives apart from each other.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'm hearing what I'm hearing when you're saying that it's like what's coming to my mind is like boundaries, like really clear boundaries, what's okay, what's not, like how much do we talk? What do we talk about? All that kind of stuff?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean this is these are all perfect examples. And you mentioned, you know, the pickups and the drop-offs. I mean one thing that I've had several clients do is they don't go inside each other's houses. That's a pretty reasonable boundary if you're trying to create space from a person, but you're still, you know, showing up for your kids and making sure that they have engagement with both parents, and that helps a lot of people keeping the communication to email. I know some people might think that that might be challenging, but you create so much emotional space and distance and you give yourself so much relief if your ex or your co-parenting with and don't get along with is on your phone all the time.

Speaker 3:

You know you don't know when they're going to text you about something and you're on edge all the time because you don't really want to be talking with them but you feel you have to you can do a lot on email. And then there's even apps for co-parents to you know schedule things and both go in there so that you know you're not having as much personal interaction.

Speaker 3:

And I know that it's tough, but I also know that there are ways to do it and you can still feel like you're being a great parent, but also showing up for yourself. If this person hasn't been good to you or the breakup has been bad, then you have every right to. You know, create boundaries and do some of these things. Maybe your co-parent isn't going to like it, but you will.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a really good point. I like that one. Just you know what's best for you and particularly what you're needing. It's okay, I guess it's. You know. It's okay to really be mindful of your needs here in this situation and speak up and express them, because I think some people just get dragged through this and then they feel so disorientated for such a long time that it's really hard to move forward. So yeah, that's really powerful.

Speaker 3:

And getting into cycles with the co-parent and things that just seem normal, even though they're eating you up inside.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Take action now inside.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, take action now.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think one thing to note and this is just from our perspective as well and it's more just something I'd like to share is that we spoke initially at the start of this conversation about how we get this breakup brain right, and it's so foggy, it's murky, we don't know where we are. Sometimes it's really like you know, you feel like you're sort of lost at sea and I think the importance of emotional regulation and just having a practice that keeps you grounded, that gets you remembering that you're okay, that you know maybe it's five affirmations that you read to yourself every day and then a calming box, breath, work practice in the morning, just to get you grounded and centered, remembering, hey, I am okay, I'm not lost, I am worthy, I'm complete, I'm okay these kind of affirmations are often really helpful just to remind the nervous system and almost reparent the self especially the ones who feel rejected or abandoned that you might feel lonely at the moment and abandoned, but the truth is that you're with you and you can actually be okay in that situation and relearn, like to live in this state. So I think I just wanted to reiterate that there's a self-empowerment piece here and I actually loved what you shared, janice, because, in a way, for those who are growth-oriented, a breakup can actually be a really exciting time for growth, right For transformation of self. Now, I'm not leaning and relying on this other person for this particular part. It might be security, it could be nurturing, it could be, you know, intimacy.

Speaker 1:

Well then, like, what an opportunity to really observe self here and just go wow, like how can I actually almost reimagine my life from here? And so to me, I was getting like excitement and maybe like for some people, it could be the excitement that they need in order to act on something that they know in their heart they need to act on. So obviously we're relationship coaches, but it doesn't mean that we believe all relationships should be like held and they should be together, right, like we see so many amazing transformations when the breakup happens. So I think that's why this podcast is so important. So I just wanted to invite you into any final words of strength or wisdom that you want to offer our audience. It's been such a wonderful chat.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much. I like what you're saying about showing up for yourself, and I think what I'll leave everyone with is this is your opportunity to show up for yourself, and this is your opportunity to show your future self, what you're willing to do, what you're made of and how courageous you were. I often try to motivate people by asking them you know, think of your future self, think of yourself a year from now. How do you want to look back on this time? And you know, what do you want to remember? That that you did and do that oh, that's so awesome.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, I love that as well, even though I say it all the time it's still yeah, that's the truth very very powerful to go about really life in that way you know, being, your, being the best version of yourself to, in order to you know, make your future self proud 100 well, janice, you were a pioneer in this space.

Speaker 1:

You know of breakup, coaching and dating advice and all that you know that sort of field. I really just wanted to ask you. First, I wanted to thank you for jumping on the show, because this we haven't covered this topic. I think this is episode 56. And it's just been amazing to think that we've come this far without really diving into this topic. So I'm honored to have you on the show, both of us, and it's just wonderful to have you sharing your wisdom and your tips and advice, especially when people are feeling like they're lost at sea in this space. And I just wanted to ask is there anywhere in particular that people can reach out to you if they want to maybe tap into some of your programs or your coaching people?

Speaker 3:

can reach out to you if they want to maybe tap into some of your programs or your coaching. Thank you and hi to everyone listening. I'm so glad that you showed up for yourself by pushing play on this episode, because that's really what you've done. I have a wonderful website, janice, for Michellecom, and if you want to, you know like, really engage with me one on one. I'm very active on Instagram. It's also janice formichella. Come drop me a line, uh, oh, let me know that you listen to this podcast, um, specifically, and I'll send you something in the mail as a thank you awesome yeah, thank you so much, janice.

Speaker 2:

I've really enjoyed the chat and, um, yeah, look forward to maybe even having you on again. I feel like there's so much more in this space my pleasure.

Speaker 3:

Yes, thank you.