Thrive Again - Your relationship podcast

How to Create a Conscious Relationship through Radical Truth: With Aaron & Greer

• Michael & Amy • Season 1 • Episode 58

Share episode

What if your relationship struggles were actually doorways to deeper connection? Aaron and Greer, the heart behind Intimacy for Couples, dive deep into what truly transforms relationships from mundane to transformational.

Their journey began unconventionally—as friends for a year before romance entered the picture, allowing them to establish radical honesty without the expectations and attachments that often complicate partnerships. When they finally came together romantically, Aaron was thrust into a profound identity crisis, shifting from "solo bachelor" to suburban dad virtually overnight. Meanwhile, Greer navigated ending her previous marriage while parenting two young children. This crucible of challenge became the fertile soil from which their relationship philosophy blossomed.

At the core of their approach is individual shadow work—the courageous exploration of unconscious patterns driving our behaviours. Aaron vulnerably shares how burnout forced him to confront deep-seated "not-enoughness" and learn to receive love based on who he is rather than what he accomplishes. Greer reveals how her father's illness catalysed her commitment to radical truth-telling, creating a partnership where honesty trumps comfort.

Their practical tools transform abstract concepts into actionable wisdom. They introduce somatic awareness—tracking body sensations during difficult conversations—as a concrete pathway through emotional storms. Their simple phrase "I choose to come back to love" serves as a pattern-interrupter during conflicts. Perhaps most revolutionary is their approach to forgiveness: "Most of the time, forgiveness comes with realising there's nothing to forgive." When we truly understand another's conditioning and perspective, judgment naturally dissolves.

Rather than avoiding triggers, they invite couples to use them as opportunities for healing. By witnessing each other's inner children and wounds in safe containers, relationships develop a compassion that fundamentally transforms daily interactions. This approach allows for both individual missions and deep partnership—proving that true intimacy doesn't require enmeshment, but thrives when two whole people choose to grow together.

Ready to transform your relationship from surviving to thriving? Discover more resources and connect with Aaron and Greer through their website, where their free guides will help you take your first steps toward conscious relating.

Thankyou for listening, if you liked it, please remember to subscribe.

Join our Private "Thriving relationships - Deepening connection to self and others" community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1107209283451758/

Website: https://michaelandamy.com.au/

Join our free 7 day relationship challenge: https://michaelandamy.com.au/free-relationship-challenge

If you would like to book in a private discovery call with us, here is the link: https://michaelandamy.com.au/call

Speaker 1:

In this episode we are in for a treat. We have special guests, aaron and Greer, who are the heart behind Intimacy for Couples, which is a powerful platform supporting couples to heal, to deepen and to reimagine their connection through radical truth, embodied intimacy and conscious relating Together. They offer deeply transformational work that helps individuals and couples move beyond surface-level fixes and into their authentic, soul-led love. With a focus on truth-telling, self-responsibility and nervous system awareness, their approach invites people to reconnect with their own essence so they can meet their partner with clarity, presence and depth. In this episode, we explore the path towards a conscious relationship through the lens of individual personal growth and dive into the courage and clarity required to practice radical truth in communication. This one is an absolute pearler and one of our favorite episodes. We love jamming with this couple from Tasmania. You guys are going to love it too.

Speaker 2:

One, two, three, four episodes. We love jamming with this couple from Tasmania. You guys are going to love it too. We're Michael and Amy, your Couples Connection Coaches. Our mission is to help couples thrive using a conscious and holistic approach. This podcast is for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

Speaker 1:

Okay, aaron and Greer, welcome to the podcast. It's so beautiful to have met you guys right, and it's down in Tasmania I think some of the Tasmanians say that that's the real mainland. But you guys are doing some beautiful work with couples in the intimacy space and in the spiritual space as well, and I think it's just so beautiful that we've aligned and you guys are the first couples coaches I think that we've ever had on the podcast. So I just really would love to hear, like from you guys, a bit of a background story about your relationship and what your life looks like at the moment, so the listeners can get a little bit of context sure, okay, yeah, so we met about nine and a half years ago.

Speaker 3:

I was um teaching yoga and aaron was completing his uh personal training qualifications at a women's only gym and yeah, we, we hit it off straight away. Um, it was great because I was married at the time with two young children and Aaron's younger. You just come back from travelling and you're really on your personal development journey and it was great because we hit it off as friends. I asked Aaron I was doing network marketing at the time and I asked Aaron to join my network marketing business and we often joke and say like do you want to try a vitamin? Do you want my baby?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it was called Life Plus, the, the business and it was like life plus a family, but that we didn't come together for a long time and, uh, it was great because it we had a, you know, a solid year of becoming very, very good friends and um into the point where at some point we said you're like the brother and the sister that I never had. We were both on the spiritual path, we were just, and because we weren't in relationship, it gave us a really a lot of freedom from which to be really honest about what was coming up for one another, because we weren't, it didn't have anything to do with one another and we weren't needing anything from one another.

Speaker 3:

So my marriage was changing and that was dissolving. And so when we did finally become intimate, even then although it was a beautiful physical experience and spiritual experience that, because I was just coming out of a marriage, I had no intention to going into another long-term relationship. You weren't intending on becoming a stepfather, you'd come from a blended family and you were also, like you know, going into different paths. So we we went very deep and and very open and transparent, without kind of attaching and trying to make the other this person for ourselves. So it meant radical honesty, massive freedom, not in terms of open relationship, but just being free to be ourselves, and that led to that really radical intimacy.

Speaker 4:

And transformation, because that's ultimately. We also had a shared love for service and when we were friends friends we were running workshops together and, you know, growth and teaching was a core component of what created a really strong bond between us and I know for me that meant that there was so much more to this relationship than just romance. There was a shared mission that brought so much fulfillment and, yeah, those that foundation really set us up for when the relationship started to get pretty hard and it wasn't necessarily hard between us, it was, you know, all the stuff that came up, you know, for me around coming into a blended family and, as Greer shared, I'd been traveling a lot as a younger man. I spent like eight years being a solo bachelor and really living on the edges of society and doing some wild, crazy things, and here I was thrust suddenly into a suburban dad scenario.

Speaker 3:

Having tea parties with my daughter.

Speaker 4:

I was having this huge identity crisis and all my own inner child stuff being triggered and all my wounds of abandonment, and you name it. It was like deep, dark shadow work, and I hadn't although I'd been on my path my you know path of awakening prior to meeting Greer, I hadn't really done the deep shadow work, and so that's what really I was forced to confront and face when we first got together.

Speaker 4:

I had to mature and grow up very fast and there was growing pains there yeah but ultimately all of that difficulty became really rich soil for us to create this incredible bond and also a level of embodiment of what it really means to use relationship as a crucible and a container for radical transformation and healing yeah yeah, amazing guys like I just love that intro for so many different reasons.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure you've got some things that you're writing down there as well, babe, but, um, for me what I really heard was there was just so much it wasn't exactly easy for you guys. Like there were challenges there that came from this mutual commitment to growth and growth within the relationship, but also knowing that it's like, hey, I'm here for personally, like individually, for some of service, to offer some sort of guidance, and it feels right for us to do this together. And why that kind of is hitting me is because that sounds so similar to us, right, and in fact we even were part of network marketing years ago. So that's kind of weird.

Speaker 3:

Who invited who?

Speaker 2:

It was him first.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, so but yeah, really interesting and I guess I want to move into this question around why does individual growth matter in relationship? And, Aaron, you spoke about shadow work. I want to see if you can explain to the listeners who may not be familiar with shadow work, if you can explain what that is in terms of individual growth and why that's important for the relationship.

Speaker 4:

Sure, shadow work to me is the process of really diving into our unconscious and what is underneath the service of what's really driving our motivations and behavior. For example, when Greer and I were first getting together, I was in a men's personal development group and it was. It had its positives, but there was also some toxicity about it and you know it was very, yang, very high achievement. And what I wasn't aware of was just how much shame and not enoughness and needing to prove myself was really driving that. I wasn't aware of it.

Speaker 4:

And yet when Gurira and I met, because I'd been in such a yang energy and overexerting myself, pushing myself way beyond my capacity, I went into pretty intense burnout and had to like deeply surrender, had months and months of not being able to get out of bed like really being cooked, like really being cooked. And this is when I had to really confront and allow myself to be loved for who I am and not what I do, and not have my self-worth tied into what I can achieve and my level of success. And that's really a small dynamic of how my shadow work kind of appeared in that period of time.

Speaker 3:

And I know.

Speaker 4:

Gris has.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I kind of see shadow work and we learn a lot from Dr Robert Augustus Masters, who has really amazing work in shadow that I kind of see. The shadow work is like there's two primary phases. One is that it's in the unconscious. It's like the unconscious, unconscious, so it's in the unconscious and we don't know about it. And then there's that stage where we become aware of this pattern that plays out automatically and there's an awareness of it, but we haven't resolved it. It's still very much down deep.

Speaker 3:

And so what I noticed in that phase of burnout, part of my shadow was kind of modeling a mother who's very loving, very giving and was also, in her own ways, develops a sense of worth by what she can do and how well she can take care. And so this is how and I'm sure you guys have a similar thing that we come together with what we call complementary opposites, where our shadows, our struggles, they, they, they're beautiful. Because in Aaron's coming together of like his own drive of doing and having to do, do, do and learning that he can be loved without that required me to balance how do I give in a way where I can still give and nurture, but not doing it from a place of. Even I've got this man who's in total burnout. Can I look after him without just coming kind of coming to his rescue and wrapping him up in in my love? And so it requires, in order for both couples, both members, to balance, they're kind of the complementary skills that need to be brought.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. And another example of how those complementary opposites might play out is I know, for me, one of my reactions if I'm feeling shame or I'm not feeling enough is to get like aggressive or angry, whereas, group for Greer, it's like to withdraw and shut down and retreat. And we had a really powerful moment once where I was like feeling agitated and I actually stopped and I went in, I'm like, oh, I'm not feeling enough here, and Greer said the same thing and we actually realized, oh, we're both not feeling enough. But yet on the surface level, the behavior was literally polar opposites but, at the core.

Speaker 3:

It was the same dynamic there yeah, and so you had to, as aaron soften and I strengthen. That's how you brought one another into balance. But coming back to our own inner work and the importance of the inner work, it's kind of we talk about being like a hundred percent responsible for our half of the relationship. So if Aaron's in trigger, my responsibility isn't to fix him or to appease him, it's to stay centered in what we call the wise adult. And if I notice myself at the effect, what do I need to do? So as I can kind of look after myself in the situation rather than expect him to fix me of conscious relationship and using relationship as that crucible, that that place of deep transformation, because it's it's often where we get triggered the most is in our intimate relationships and so using a trigger as a doorway and what we've found is like, not only do we heal as an individual and grow from those dynamics, it actually deepens the trust and the intimacy.

Speaker 4:

This and it's often been in the times where we've felt like the most apart and it's like, well, we are like really disconnected here and then we repair, we go, come back and go so much deeper and we've really learned to trust this process of, you know, coming apart but then coming back together, and we actually, you know, just had another example of it over this weekend feeling like you know, I was again.

Speaker 4:

I was not feeling well throughout the week. Our polarity wasn't on, our connection wasn't really thriving and we had a moment where we were in bed together and agreed to took a top off. She said I don't want this to lead to sex. And you know it triggered my like oh, rejection. Something wrong with me all that. And it required a really delicate conversation, but we've got the skills and the frameworks to be able to do it. And then afterwards, the the day after, like wow, the lovemaking was just on another level yeah.

Speaker 3:

And so, again, coming back to that inner work, it's so, especially if, I mean, we teach a lot about embodiment I know you guys do as well it's actually really coming into our bodies and noticing what we're feeling, both in trigger but also like in that moment. I noticed myself when we were getting in bed to have a snuggle we tend to like to snuggle naked because it's just always so much nicer. But I also was like I noticed, if I didn't speak that just so you know I don't feel like having sex right now then I would have been bit guarded. I couldn't quite soften fully because I would have just need to energetically. And this could be unconscious too, I wouldn't necessarily be aware of it. So I needed to speak that and again, I was a bit hesitant of speaking it because I knew that it would most likely trigger Aaron. But I had to be honest about that. And we've had a couple of occasions where we've made love and it hasn't been really one of ours like full truth to actually really engage, and then we will notice afterwards that it will create a little bit of a disconnect. And so we've made a real commitment to one another to be really honest about that and what, what? I kind of.

Speaker 3:

What we realized is that because Aaron had been unwell during the week, that there'd been times I'd kind of gone in to move closer and he'd kind of had that energy, either because I'm just too tired or there's. You know, we live with my mum. We have a son now as well, two daughters, a dog, my mum's partner. It's just like there's times that, you know, aaron just wants space and so that has repercussions on me, and so if I'm going to go in and then I get pushed back, I kind of start to shield a bit, and so it's too much for me, in the body of a woman, to go from shielded to just open, whereas you know, men can go on, you know, and as you know, you know we're not like that. So developing the skills, developing the awareness around, and that requires our own kind of developing the awareness around and that requires our own kind of inner standing of what's going on with us, attunement.

Speaker 3:

Attunement yeah, yeah, having the skill set to be able to navigate the conversations, because it's delicate, you know, and even though we do this and we teach this, we love the analogy of a weightlifter. As a weightlifter gets stronger, their technique gets better, gets better, they can lift heavier, but it's still freaking hard if in some ways, it gets harder, but they're better at it so they can live more. So the conversations that we have, they get more, more and more honest and as we become, as we get to know ourselves better, more and more, and become more and more embodied and then kind of learn how to and share these new kind of revelations within ourselves with one another.

Speaker 2:

So beautiful, yeah, there's so much in there that I was like, oh yes, in this, this, but to be sharing in such a vulnerable space, I just say thank you, you know, because often we don't speak about this stuff. It's not a common, you know, theme or a topic, or particularly amongst couples these days. You know. So I love the vulnerability and the honesty and the truth that you two have in your relationship, but there's such a theme and a dynamic of the shadow work that you were speaking into, aaron, of the not enoughness, you know, and I see that in a lot of the men that we work with, see that in a lot of the men that we work with I know Michael can relate as well and how much this can play out in the relationship dynamic and how much it can disconnect couples in that space.

Speaker 2:

And I mean, yes, women have their own stuff too, but I just, I know that you spoke into that and that is such a strong thing that it hinders a lot of men, you know, and they overcompensate and they, like you said, burn out, do more. I'll just show you more and I'll work more and I'll be away more or whatever that is. So I'd love to know for our audience, I suppose, aaron, what are some of the ways that they can get better at this? Or how did? What was your process of learning to be better at loving yourself ultimately and letting go of this overdriven masculine trait? I suppose it is in the end.

Speaker 4:

It's a good question and it's been a journey and it's a long journey you know, like I think and this is something I was going to just dovetail on to the end of what Gree was sharing here is it's really important to recognize that we're all kind of walking around with multiple personality disorder in a way we've got different parts to ourself.

Speaker 4:

you know, internal family systems by dick swartz is an amazing modality that can really help us start to identify different aspects of ourself and our psyche. And I know we've found this immensely valuable in being able to articulate ourselves in these difficult, confronting conversations and I've just come to recognize that that shame and that not enoughness, it's a part, it's just this aspect within me. It's not the truth of who I am, but it's there and rather than trying to eliminate it, I've got to befriend it because it's. It just needs compassion ultimately, because shame comes with all this judgment and judgment of self and it's really important for us to realize just how much our culture perpetuates shame on men, because our sense of worth is so tied into what we can produce or give or provide and we're lacking in rituals and rites of passage for us to claim our enoughness in our essence, and that's just lacking in our culture.

Speaker 4:

So I really want to normalize how? How much shame drives us as men unconsciously and yeah, for me I. I went through my burnout. I just had to allow myself to really be loved for who I am, and let that in.

Speaker 4:

I had a lot of guards and walls up when we were first together and you know they were adaptations from my family, like growing up in an emotionally turbulent house, or maybe I was just modeling how love was given and not given in my family and so I had all these beliefs and guards around my heart. Maybe there was times I was open and vulnerable and it wasn't seen, it wasn't valued, it wasn't mirrored back to me, and so I really had to learn to drop my guard and allow love in Beautiful. Yeah, I just remember so many times of, you know, being on the couch and just speaking to Greer like I just feel worthless right now and just allowing myself to be courageous enough to verbalise that. And I tend to shy away from the whole vulnerability piece because to me, in those times where I've been like deeply honest, it's required me to be courageous to like really show.

Speaker 4:

This is how I am at the moment, and just that framing has helped me really honour those times where I've needed to really be honest what's going on within me. And this was also something I'd started to develop prior to meeting Greg, because I had my awakening when I was 21 years old. I recognized I was wearing these different masks. I was a party boy around my friends and I was this good boy around my family, and it required me to like, lie and make up all these stories and narratives in order to maintain these masks and these roles and personas. But any love and praise would go to the persona and not into me, and so I made a radical commitment to to really speak my truth and really be honest way back then and then that created all this momentum for our relationship.

Speaker 4:

So by the time I was with Greer it was. I was always honest from the start beautiful yeah, can.

Speaker 3:

I is okay if I share something on that, because I think they're one of the kind of underlying when we work with couples we will share at the start that we're going to share some principles and we're not asking you to believe in them as biblical truth or indoctrination, but they're just concepts to try on and see if it resonates. And one of the concepts that we also always share is that truth and love the synonyms, and so this idea that if we're being honest, even when it's hard, even when it's uncomfortable, it's the honesty, the truth will always bring us into deeper love. And so my journey of that and it's interesting we were both on an inner because before we met I'd been doing women's work for about 10 years, I'd trained as a life coach and I'd taught yoga, pilates. I was on that path and I kind of thought I was on the path and I was. But it really wasn't until my father was, who was one of the lovers of my life and one of my best friends. He was an amazing man, was diagnosed with cancer. That I recognized and I'd become aware of these different veils that I have around my different groups. But it was when I realized there was a.

Speaker 3:

I went from dad being a very healthy man to in the hospital bed with him the next day, thinking he may die then and there. And so what? And he was always um, even though I, um, he had been the steady source of um is it word? It's confidence. What is it when you confide in someone? And he was very wise and I'd always shared everything with him, but in that moment where I thought he might be dying, when I was holding him in my arms, any freaking vow dissolved and this was someone who I was most, almost one of the most intimate person I was in my life and it really kind of shocked me how much dissolved when that could have been our final conversation and I really took that.

Speaker 3:

I was very, very grateful that he went on to live another two years and coming out of that hospital room, I made this commitment that every time I'm still not knowing how long, whether he was going to make it through that weekend, but every time I noticed a veil coming up with my dad, I was going to drop it. And that weekend, but every time I noticed a veil coming up with my dad, I was going to drop it. And I had two years to really practice that, so that when he passed there was this steadfast commitment to honor my truth and he came to me in a vision seven weeks after his passing. That's another story in itself, but it just really brought home that my, those whispers in my heart, that knowing that truth, that like is always there but can feel a bit scary to to go into, that is my, that is my god self guiding me home, you know, really wanting to incarnate. It's my soul wanting to birth here and that I'm, I'm going to commit to that.

Speaker 3:

And it was through that process that I really got honest. I'm calling intimacy in my life like deep intimacy, um, in all areas. And I met aaron two months later, a month later wow yeah, you had come to was this like crystal devotion?

Speaker 3:

and so, coming back to the inner path, yes, we can use relationship as the crucible, and we do that very much to do our shadow work, and it's helpful that we're both trained. Um, yeah, this is our work, so that doesn't, but that we have to be so committed to that within ourselves. Um, and yeah, and then it becomes a synergy. But what I can hear within myself, within the relationship, is much more than what I could ever do with you know myself, or a therapist, or something yeah, it's just like.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for me, I'm just hearing so much oh in in terms of I just imagined right then what that was would have been like for you, aaron, meeting Greer after that potent moment where she's just anchored in truth, will set me free forever. I need to like this is how I'm going to speak, and you've been through your own individual work as well. You know your own awakening. You're starting to maybe move into working out your unconscious programs and behavioral patterns and things like that. Then you guys meet together. Like from the get-go there must have been this devotion to truth, but still there's discomfort in revealing truth, right. So, like for you, um, there's shame attached to not enoughness, things like that.

Speaker 1:

I know that for us in our work, like we also really encourage speaking the truth and not walking around on eggshells and practicing that.

Speaker 1:

Yes, this may hurt the other initially and trigger them, but this is really the only way, um, in terms of like meeting each other with in, so that I guess both of you can witness that safety can exist in this environment, in this container of the relationship and in your most vulnerable moment, even as a man, like to reveal hey, I'm feeling like I'm worthless right now, and for her to hold that and to be there at that time, to be that nurturing essence in those moments doesn't need to be all the time.

Speaker 1:

It's like she's saving you, but she's there with you like. To me, that sounds like the kind of relationship that we aspire, all our couples that we work with to move towards, and, like you said, it's not easy. It's been a journey and it continues to be a journey. And for me, it's a journey too and it continues to be, because the same similar type of narrative exists inside of me is that I can't get it right, I don't do it well enough, I'm not enough, and so when she triggers me with I don't know, maybe something like Her awesomeness yeah exactly Just her sheer brilliance.

Speaker 1:

No her, I don't know she's forward, babe.

Speaker 2:

I'm just calling you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, brilliance. No, her, um, I don't know, she forward babe, I'm just calling you. Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah, at the time it doesn't bloody feel like it and um, yeah, like you know there'll be. I'll hear the there's 10 things I did right in this creation and she'll pull the one thing out, or that's at least how I'll see it, and then I'll move into my behavioral response and, um, but now, like, because of the work that we've done it, yeah, it really I can speak to that a lot more openly.

Speaker 1:

I can kind of say, babe, when you said that thing back there, I just dropped into this thing again where I feel like I'm not really good enough. And it's not that you need to do anything with that, it's just that I want to communicate that. That actually kind of penetrated in some way. And, yeah, I'm just working through that at the moment. I need some space or whatever the thing is that I need. Yeah, so I love how we've spoken into why the relationship now is so important. You've spoken about the individual work that you guys have been doing. Can you help me understand a little bit about what are some practical tools and strategies and like the things that maybe a listener can actually pick up on and maybe even practice or even learn that were really important for you guys. That's going to help to create a beautiful, safe relationship.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, absolutely so. I think you touched on it when you shared around how, when I brought my vulnerability and when I was feeling worthless, and Greer held that, and she held that in compassion.

Speaker 4:

And compassion is so key and, as I shared around the shame piece, like recognizing that I'm never actually going to eliminate that part of myself, I'm just going to come into relationship with it and give it compassion. So ultimately it starts with having compassion for ourselves and these parts of ourselves that we might find really difficult to love and we wish they weren't there. And why am I like this? And just, it will start with self because then, once we've started to cultivate that within, then we'll start to have more space and bandwidth to have compassion for our partner's difficulties. And it's not just a fluffy concept, it's actually really steeped in neurobiology and that staying in a place of compassion actually keeps us grounded in our prefrontal cortex where we can have nuance, where we can appreciate and see another's perspective. And from this place it's a um michael, you shared it perfectly like we learn to explore each person's subjective reality, what's going on internally, recognizing that it's just a perspective, it's not the ultimate truth.

Speaker 4:

I think a lot of couples get it wrong when they think that their perspective is right, when relationships start to become these places of safety and exploration, to start to become aware of these maybe shadow components, or recognizing how we particularly act out when we're triggered, like all of this is really fertile ground to start to become more self-aware so that these patterns don't play out and so we can grow and mature. So compassion is key and learning the skill of speaking what's going on for us subjectively, which means becoming aware of the mental narrative, becoming aware of what's going on for us physically, like somatically in the body tightness in the chest, you know, something in the belly, sweaty hands and then starting to bring in the language of emotions and emotional literacy and actually being able to identify what shame is and I think a lot of people also get mental narratives confused with feelings and emotions and being able to again have the self-awareness of okay, this is the narrative here and what's actually the emotion underneath that and learning to articulate that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, so we tend to. So. Just the other day, when we had that moment after and, um, I'd taken my top off, and then we're lying there and I could feel and this is the thing, right, I'm sure you guys would it. When we come into conscious relationship, we're so attuned to one another so there's nothing that we can really hide, so we don't really have a chance of not being honest. But uh, I could feel, you know, our energy draw away, and so, rather than trying to unpack and assure him, yeah, the, I said so I'm feeling open in my heart.

Speaker 3:

My palms are relaxed, and Aaron knows that when my palms are tense, that's normally the beginning of anxiety for me. So if I voice to him that my palms and this is a different type of intimacy and a different way of getting one another's body my palms are open and I can feel the socks on my feet, and so that's how I introduce it. What are you feeling all right now? And so my chest is constricted, my jaw is tight, so you know, if I say that now you can get a feel, and then, from there, my emotion is this, and the story I'm telling myself is it so? It's this layered thing to what's going on and what's so important is that, rather than me going, oh, but you shouldn't think that and you shouldn't feel that and blah blah, it's like okay, like coming into compassion, acceptance and acknowledgement that that is happening for him and that he's not wrong in that and that experience is completely valid.

Speaker 3:

And I often give the example of, you know, just reminding couples how important it is and this is a tip for listeners to keep coming back to usness. So, imagining that you're sitting on a park bench and if, if Aaron and I are here and we're facing one another and we're say we're sitting on a park bench and I'm saying, aaron, there are some pink flowers behind you and a tree, they're in this space, there are pink flowers and a tree, and Aaron's like, yeah, there's a whiteboard and a room divider and like, no, there's not, there's pink flowers. And, as you can see, you can see the pink flowers in the tree. If I do that, you can see the whiteboard and things, and so we can argue all we want. And if we come back here and actually turn to face, oh, I can see the pink trees and he can see the whiteboard, and then we get that broader perspective.

Speaker 3:

We come into that shared reminder, what's really important and something that we will often say to one another if we notice ourselves moving into a me versus them. You know this differentiation, this separation, it's one. Sometimes one of us will say I choose to come back to love, and that's what. That's what we actually say. We have a few one-liners and a few kind of code words. For one, a better word is I'm choosing to come back to the love, and it's this invitation. Let's come back on the park bench and let's remember that we're both our subjective. There is no objective reality in relationship. It's all about subjective relationship, and that's why fighting over who's right, who's wrong, never, ever works. So you've got to come in and um, and that's how we can come into a greater understanding of of what's really playing out.

Speaker 2:

I love that. That's so powerful and I can. I'm just thinking about a listener and what they're thinking about listening to this and I feel like it some of our listeners it would be a big concept to actually even think that.

Speaker 2:

Hang on, I am right, like I've still got to try and but I'm right, you know but yeah that's the beauty of actually just having this subjective, you know, and and perspective, and realizing that, hey, you're not me and I'm not you and it's okay. You know, I don't want you to be me and you don't, you don't want me to be you. So let's being able to be in in full acceptance of each other, whilst having our own perspectives and views and understandings of the world and how we see it. And that, I feel like, is a powerful piece that a lot of couples maybe get lost in. You know that they just kind of feel like they've got to get their point across and you've got to understand my point of view, but it's okay to have two points of view, you know.

Speaker 2:

I think that's beautiful.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, when you've only had it that way in the history of your relationship, like that's the only way that's that it's ever operated. There's these like neural pathways that have this expectation that like, if I present my opinion, I know that it's going to be challenged then to actually change that pattern to a place where there is acceptance and compassion and curiosity within the partnership and it's like, oh, I really want to know about your perspective here. It's so interesting that that's so radically different. But I'm here with you in this exploration right now. All of a sudden, that person doesn't feel like they're unheard and they're unseen and they're not understood and everything. It doesn't feel like they're unheard and they're unseen and they're not understood and everything. It doesn't mean that they're agreeing to it, but it's just. This is like cool, I just want to. I want to meet you where you're at right now.

Speaker 1:

And actually this morning, amy and I we had a conversation that went quite deep. You know we had opposing views, but we were very respectful and curious about each other's reality and in the end, we ended up coming to this beautiful agreement in the end because I felt like I was witnessed in my struggle and, yeah, it was to do with, just like where we're moving to in life. We are together in partnership, but I have my own desires and wants and that may conflict with what we're doing together and so that that then may threaten her own, maybe, feeling of safety and like, oh my God, like, what is this?

Speaker 1:

What do you mean? Are you going to abandon me? Is this like and so like. But for me it was important to really speak my truth and you invited me into that anyway, so you were asking for that, so we had yeah, you could feel it, but the curiosity was there, the openness, the willingness to come back to love consistently, like through this process, keep reminding and I love what you've just said there I choose to come back to love. Like that is so powerful. What a way to break that neural pathway. If even one of you just spoke that when you noticed that both of you are triggered, like yeah, wow, it's so powerful.

Speaker 3:

And I really want to name one of our um teachers, alumna christos, who that's who I heard that phrase from. We did some really deep, divine union work with her and she was acknowledging someone on their 20-year anniversary and she just wrote I celebrate how many times you've chosen to come back to love. This was years ago and since that I was like, oh, that's a decision, it's a choice, and and reality is it's, it's not like, especially when we know that we're right. It's easy to be open when we think I'm I'm not really sure, but if I'm in that space, like I'm pretty sure that I'm right, it's hard right and it's a skill set, and this is why you know we practice it and why we support couples in it, because it's not like, oh yeah, I'll just do it.

Speaker 3:

We still find it challenging, but something that you've said, a piece of information that I'm missing because I do not understand what's happening here, and so even that it's like he's acknowledging, because if I'm judging Aaron or I'm judging any situation, it means that there's a vital piece of information that I don't understand, because pretty much, if I think of anyone who I've had issues with or whatever, when I actually find out what's actually going on. I always, oh right, I didn't know that. So our perspective can always be broadened and it's just a matter of finding the language and learning how to do that. And sometimes it's a it's not just like I feel this and he's that. He's like oh, I'm that's like, okay, that's it. It's like sometimes I need to say my piece. Then Aaron says his piece and like okay, can I say another piece?

Speaker 4:

and again we have frameworks to another day yeah, I think there's just been so many times when we've done this and I've been like, oh, I didn't see that yeah so now that'm just like what am I not seeing, Whereas early on we'd be doing this and I'd be like it'd be quite confronting. I'd be like, well, I hadn't considered that. And so I think, when you first, when a couple is first doing this, it will probably be quite confronting to realise your own blind spots but it becomes such a gift.

Speaker 4:

Now I'm like tell me, like what am I not seeing here?

Speaker 4:

I want to know, because when I can see that it just makes so much more sense, I get such a better world view. It's more cohesive, it's more integrated. And the other thing that wants I want to share here is like how many times there's been like a level of forgiveness for whatever, in whatever context, and it usually comes back to like when we really understand someone and their motives. Most of the time, forgiveness comes with realizing that there's nothing to forgive. And we can only really do that when we genuinely understand someone's you know pain, their paradigm, what their conditioning, and all like when we really understand what has driven someone to behave the way they are, then we, we understand.

Speaker 4:

It's like, okay, well, if I was in your situation, with your paradigm, with your worldview, with your trauma, I'd be doing the exact same thing.

Speaker 3:

And it's like, ultimately, there's nothing to forgive yeah, and I think this is the power of having therapy as a couple with a couple and you guys I'm sure see this with with um clients is that when we if and aaron and I came to know the power of this ourselves from the work that we did together with our mentors prior to offering this service.

Speaker 3:

But there's something, it's.

Speaker 3:

There's a different thing, um, when couple are developing these skills, for um aaron to go off and see his therapist on his own and come back and say, oh yeah, I had a great session, versus me being sitting alongside him and it's like you guys are taking him through an inner child healing and this perspective that I have on Aaron oh, my god, it's so annoying how he always does this and he protects his mother onto me and you know I've got this like narrative versus me sitting alongside while he goes into a deep wound of child and I see that resolve, note actually really get compassion for that little boy in him. It means that when we're back home in the kitchen and that adaptive child plays out, I see through the behavior, the symptoms and can see that's his inner child and what he's really needing is love or assurance that it's okay for him to rest, and that's the power of doing this work as couples in this deep kind of therapeutic coaching space, the compassion, and that's where the radical intimacy is born couldn't agree with you more.

Speaker 1:

There it's my favorite part yeah, so yeah because you're really witnessing each other in true like true vulnerability and in a safe container where it's guided by you know, professionals and it. So it's not like this oh, I don't know what's going to happen here. Like here, like there's a hopefully by then, there's a feeling of kind of cool. I'm actually feeling okay to explore this. And then, when that safety is there and the exploration happens and, yeah, maybe an opening happens for your partner to witness, yeah, that real, I guess that inner child that's really just yearning for something, just just really wants closeness or nurturing or, um, just being listened to or, yeah, really held, is.

Speaker 1:

When that's witnessed, then it's like, oh, I see you, now I'm not seeing this, it's the pattern. The pattern is it's just the behavior, but really you're just a young child underneath there and yeah. So that then replicates in real world when you're in the kitchen and something happens and there's a trigger, and then in effect, it's not like, yeah, this kind of like two forces against each other. It's like, oh, I see you now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's my favourite time in the sessions when that happens, when we're able to open that up and let each other because they walk out, the couples walk out so differently. There's like this whole energetic drop in them and they're like oh, soften and their hearts are more open because, yeah, it's such a different frame of mind when people can see the inner child or that wounded little boy or girl inside.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, and then that wounded child has less need to play out because they've been held and been seen. So yeah, so true.

Speaker 1:

Guys, we're coming to the end of this podcast, but I wanted to explore just personally for you guys, like what's actually alive for you guys right now. Like I'm just curious about your journey and where you guys are at in terms of growth and, you know, within the relationship. Or in life, if they're in life, yeah, whatever's coming up.

Speaker 4:

Yeah yeah, whatever's coming up. Yeah, I, I'm actually uh, really exploring and growing and developing a really solid uh service within the. It's a holistic space for men to come to and train and sharpen and also soften for for life. So, particularly down here in tasmania, you know, men's work was either like too emotionally based and really lacking in like yang action, you know, or it's like gym culture, mma culture, where it's like all yang and no vulnerability, no softening. So, yeah, we've creating a space that really softening.

Speaker 4:

So, yeah, we're creating a space that really caters to the full spectrum of what it means to be a man and and also having a place where we can craft our and refine our own leadership skills. So it's not, you know, the facilitators and the participants. It's like, okay, you come to dojo, where's your edge as a leader? How can we create the space so that you can step up? So, for example, there might be someone that's exploring breath work. It's like, okay, well, you can lead tonight and you can take us through a breath work thing. There might be a guy. He's going off to a conference, he's about to do public speaking for the first time. So, okay, well, here's a space, speak in front of us as an example, uh.

Speaker 4:

So, yeah, we really want to create a real holistic place for men to become deeply integrated, uh, so that we can serve our mission in life. And if, if you don't know your mission, okay, well, we can. Also, we're also creating structures and systems and frameworks for men to get super clear on their life purpose, mission, legacy and vision for life, because I think it's just integral that, as a particularly as men, in this current culture, as I said, there's so much of our, our worth predicated on what we do and how we serve. And, again, it's about coming into the right relationship with that part of ourself. And so, yeah, I guess my area of growth is how you know, I honour this. You know powerful work and stay sovereign in that for work and stay sovereign in that, but also you know meeting the needs of our family, our business, our work and you know there's a lot of balls to juggle at the moment and, you know, maintaining my own well-being within all of that and ensuring that I'm finding the right balance of productivity and rest and connection as well.

Speaker 4:

So, that's a really small snippet of what's going on for the moment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Thanks Aaron.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so amazing.

Speaker 1:

What about for you, Greer?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I don't know if you noticed, but we both smiled when you were talking about your conversation this morning, because I had to have a conversation with Aaron a few weeks ago. As I saw his passion burning for this, this, I was kind of the boy. What about me?

Speaker 1:

so similar for us guys.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, a little six-year-old girl who was like so, um, yeah, so I have had a um. So early in my journey, the women's work was a really fundamental part. When I wasn't in conscious relationship and I was, that was a big part of my life. And once after we were actually officially together and um, uh, you know, we got into our work and more spiritual work and, uh, couples work.

Speaker 3:

But what's happened, uh, recently is I've really kind of come back into this place of serving women, uh, somatically. So I'm trained in um kind of ayurveda and um, uh, tantric principles, divine feminine embodiment and somatic healing and so really supporting women to drop back into their bodies and to slow down, to feel safe enough to slow down which is really hard because we all have so many caps to put on and um, and really helping women. Come back to what is it they're really needing and really desiring. And again, that's come from my own experience of when I really kind of paid so much attention to my shoulds and how was I shooting myself through life? And if it was a should, my commitment was to drop like, okay, here the should put it aside. What am I really needing and desiring Cause, if I don't need it and I don't deeply desire it.

Speaker 3:

It's going so supporting women in that journey, um, and also having had Saturday night to ourselves without any children or anyone in the house, I'm like. So we've been running retreats on and off for eight years now and I ran retreats prior to us coming together. Admittedly, there was always a big part of my motivation for running a retreat is because I wanted to go away. So I run a retreat and then we can go away and be a service. And now, having had that just 36 hours to ourselves, it's like couples need this like, and so I'm. And now I'm like let's get her another retreat on the calendar before the end of this year. So that's alive in me at the moment the last one we ran was in January.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's just so powerful to give you know we have. We have two key offerings are an eight-week relational skills program where we meet weekly with a couple over eight weeks and that's really powerful and that's kind of a prerequisite to doing a mentorship with us. And then, and that's great, for couples who are needing to build on their how do I be honest like how to actually navigate those conversations, how, what are my boundaries? You know, why are my boundaries so hard to implement? Or that inner child healing. And then for couples who are just they've got pretty strong connection but they just know have no space together, maybe have young kids, or they're working a lot and they just need a weekend away. But rather than just going away and drinking lots of wine, they actually want to cultivate some deeper intimacy, and so we take them through different practices relating to that. So, yeah, another retreat on the cards at the end of the year.

Speaker 3:

It's alive within me.

Speaker 4:

And I'll just share that. Like what we've just shared, there is kind of a micro, of a more macro dynamic of like we really embody what we teach, so that, yes, we do the couple's work together, but we've also got our own individual mission. Like we're not enmeshed and we have no time apart, like I'm here in my wholeness as a man, greer is in her wholeness as a woman, and we've got those individual services, but then we also have the, the radical power of being in deep commitment and intimacy together and we also teach and serve in that way as well. That's my favourite part.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I just wanted to emphasise that because I know that would have meant a lot. Well, yeah, but we also, initially we were just seeing couples for a while, not A not everyone's in relationship and b sometimes people in relationship with someone who's not wanting to do the work, and that's. There's no judgment on that.

Speaker 1:

But we also, actually, we still want to be able to serve those people, so that's kind of why we've, yeah, gone that way amazing yeah, beautiful and and um, yeah, I guess, just to round this out, I'd love to to really hear where people can actually get in touch with you, because some of these things sound insanely beautiful. And what and like what other couple would you like to, you know, connect with? If there's a like a desire to kind of just get beyond this surface level, just coexistence, to a partnership where you guys are like in a conscious relationship, where you guys are thriving and actually doing the spiritual work together, then, like Aaron and Greer and I, just I think for you guys like there's a reason why we've aligned with you guys is because, like, there's so many different aspects of what you've shared today that just overlay in our life and the work that we're doing. And yeah, I just wanted to ask if you can share also just about how listeners can find you yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

So we've got a website which is um, I'm sure we have show notes, but it's yeah we'll put it in the show notes as well.

Speaker 1:

We'll put it in the show notes as well.

Speaker 3:

We've got a Facebook page which we're kind of active on it. But again, we like to walk our talk and we don't spend that much time on screens. We have enough on screens seeing clients and doing those things. So we are active on socials, but not crazy active. Our website's the best place.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, we're also regularly doing email lists and we share more of what's actually going on for us because there's a degree of privacy. It's not out on a social platform, so if you want to get the the deeper scoops, like our email newsletters yeah pretty high value yep and, yeah, we we're active on facebook at the moment and have plans to have a YouTube channel and stuff, but it's just step-by-step at the moment.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, on our website we've got some free resources too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you do. I've had a look at the website as well and it's great. There's heaps of great free resources on there, guys. So, yeah, I'd encourage you to jump on there and check it out.

Speaker 2:

Thanks guys. Thank you so much for being on our show. It it's nice. Thank you so much for being on our show. It's been such a pleasure. I just, yeah, love the conversation and it's so nice to see that there's other people out there, like in couple, work and sharing their magic with others, and I feel like it's such a powerful niche that we're in, because this is where it starts. I believe, like if we can be in this conscious relationship, then it's going to ripple out to the world and the children and everything else. So it's very passionate. I'm passionate about that as well.

Speaker 2:

So it's lovely to meet you guys.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we feel the same about you guys too, so yeah.