What if your partner isn’t the problem—but the cycle is?

A sink full of dishes isn’t just a chore—it’s a crossroads. We unpack why couples keep fighting about the same small things and reveal the bigger pattern underneath: a cycle of criticism, defensiveness, and withdrawal that quietly erodes trust. Drawing on two decades together and hands-on work with couples, we break down a real-life moment—one partner needing order to relax, the other needing a short break to reset—and show how mismatched needs create stories like “you don’t care” or “you control me.” When you learn to see the cycle as the problem, not your partner, everything changes.

We map a simple, powerful debrief: identify the trigger (what happened), the behaviour (what each of you did), and the emotion (what it touched in you). That clarity helps you move past the surface fight—dishes, shoes, the messy shed—and into what really matters: feeling seen, supported, and free. You’ll hear practical, easy scripts that turn blame into vulnerability: a 15‑minute decompression boundary, a five‑minute tidy before rest, and a calm check‑in plan that reduces uncertainty. We share how family-of-origin echoes can amplify conflict, why timing matters (talk when calm, not in the heat), and how to build micro-agreements that prevent the same argument from replaying tomorrow.

Think of this conversation as a toolkit for repair. You’ll learn how to observe your pattern like teammates watching game footage, ask smarter questions, and design tiny, testable agreements that rebuild trust. And if resentment has already taken root, we talk about getting in early before the “tumour” of unspoken hurt becomes harder to heal. Listen for the step-by-step mapping method and grab the free cycle worksheet and Triggers-to-Trust guide we mention to make it easier to practice at home. If this helped, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s stuck in a loop, and leave a quick review to tell us what cycle you’re ready to break.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Setting the Stage: Why Conflict Matters
• 2:00 Surface Fights vs Deeper Needs
• 4:20 Blame, Patterns, and the “Third Thing”
• 6:20 The Tumour Metaphor: Unrepaired Resentment
• 8:20 Get In Early: Preventing Resentment
• 10:20 A Real Example: The Dishes Dynamic
• 14:20 Stories We Tell: Freedom vs Feeling Unseen
• 17:00 Calm Debrief: Triggers, Behaviours, Emotions
• 20:00 Mapping the Cycle Like Scientists
• 22:00 Action Planning and Repair
• 24:00 Free Tools: Worksheets and Guide
• 25:40 Key Takeaways and Next Steps

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:23

And reconnect and leave a little meaningful weaker insights, kind of breakthroughs, and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving. Welcome everyone to another episode of Drive Again, your relationship podcast. We are here in the office today, sharing another episode with you. And uh how are you going today?

SPEAKER_00: 0:48

How am I going? I'm good. You're good? Yeah, I've just been working with a another man who I've done a lot of work with in regards to men's leadership. And I feel alive. I feel like I'm moving on purpose at the moment. So I'm ready to yeah, dive into this important topic, which involves men and women.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14

Or either or.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Because it's um the same same issues that many, many different types of couples have. And we're going to talk today a little bit about conflict and the cycles that we can um often find ourselves stuck in in relationships where the same issues, the same conflict gets cycled round and round, and it brings the same type of response and reaction that can really cause a lot of uh disconnect and frustration, and we're not um separate from it either, right? We have our own stuff that we cycle into.

SPEAKER_00: 1:55

Yeah, sure do, and um things have changed in terms of how that looks, feels, sounds, and the how we experience it nowadays compared to how we used to. Um, but yeah, we're humans, we have different value systems. Um, even though we're a couple and have been together for 20 years, there's still we've got our own wounds, we've got our own histories, we've got our own upbringing that contributes to the way that we turn up individually into the relationship. So um we're gonna have conflict. My belief is that we should we should be conflicting, not all the time, but at times, you know, conflict is okay as long as it's done cleanly and in a healthy way where it actually brings about more connection after the conflict rather than disconnection.

SPEAKER_01: 2:40

Yeah, I think that's the the key that we've learnt over the years of being together is yes, there is some patterns that you cycle through in the same story, the same conflict, the same issue, the same nagging problem. But um what happens is a lot of couples miss the opportunity to actually rectify or repair and bring that back up so you can actually speak into it. We just push it under the carpet or just keep thinking it's normal, or we just you know get frustrated and move on. But uh yeah, I guess um I'd like to bring awareness to the the fact that as long as as you yes, your conflicts are going to be unique to your relationship, but ultimately they're going to be along the same sort of themes as lots of other couples, and it's the opportunity to repair them and look at them a little bit more deeply than just brushing over the surface of them all the time.

SPEAKER_00: 3:34

Yeah, cool. Alright, so surface. We're talking about surface level before and how there's actually something deeper underneath because it's not about the shoes and how I've just left my shoes at the front door and you trip over them every time. There's something that's underneath this that brings about a conflict or brings about tension or a trigger for you, right? And and I I think that sometimes many couples just get caught up in this problematic pattern that just pushes blame to the other, that just says, if only he would sort his shit out, if only he would, you know, be have more of a backbone, if only he would just think about initiating cleaning up the shed and do his part, then we would be in harmony. But there's always two sides to the coin, and there's always pain in a conflict on both sides, and so we're here to help you to see the conflict as being the problem, like the cycle that you guys are in is the problem. It's not your partner. Yes, your partner contributes to it, yes, you contribute to it, but it's the pattern that you guys create that we're looking to hone in on and see it as a separate almost energy from you guys, and something that has is probably causing disharmony and unrest in in the connection.

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that nailed it. And I was just thinking as you were saying that I don't know why, it's kind of random, but I had this visual image of this, like, you know, these these patterns or these cycles that you get into around the similar topics and themes, and we'll talk about uh what they are, identify them a little bit deeper, but like you're talking about the shoes and stuff or the dishes that aren't being done or the shed that's been a mess for years, like that it's kind of like a tumour that grows in like in the relationship, on the relationship. And the more that that just kind of gets dismissed or pushed away and not spoken about, just more frustration grows, the tumour grows bigger, and the and the frustration grows more and the disconnect becomes more, and you're just an idiot. You just don't do, you just don't even ever think about me, or you don't even think about like what needs to get done around the house, and I'm you know, you get so um angry and annoyed with each other that that this tumour kind of takes over the whole relationship and it becomes quite unhealthy and sick, and um, but yet it can so simply be fixed and resolved when we become to identify it, like you were saying, as a separate, a separate thing from the relationship. It's not so much the relationship itself that's in pain and and sick, it's actually the the cycle that's causing that pain.

unknown: 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:26

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 6:27

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01: 6:29

Should we go into maybe an example?

SPEAKER_00: 6:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:33

Is there anything else that you want to speak about first?

SPEAKER_00: 6:36

Um probably that if you don't get on top of this early, then that sickness becomes an incurable tumor. It becomes hatred and it becomes resentment, and you can only see your partner through a negative lens. And so when you get to that point, which sometimes we have clarity calls with couples and they're at that point, um, it's it's really hard. It's really hard to come back from that. It's like having stage four cancer and of maybe maybe brain cancer or something like that, where it's like, look, we can we can manage the symptoms, but yeah, from here it's it's it's really looking bleak. So get in early. Um, and if you need help with this, like that's what we're here for. That's what we do.

SPEAKER_01: 7:27

We early prevention. It is, it is, it's so true. Snip it in the bud.

SPEAKER_00: 7:32

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_01: 7:32

All right, so yeah, let's go into like a real life example, and this is used to happen, and maybe it still does to some degree with our relationship, about a conflict that would uh commonly occur. And to be honest, it wouldn't I I think sometimes we think the con the idea of a conflict means like this big argument back and forth, like big blow-up. But actually, for me, it was the more silent type of frustrations and conflicts that I would um um dwell in and sit in and not bring to you. So I guess, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:10

Yeah, the unspoken. Yeah. Yeah, you just sat with it internally and didn't speak about it or or when you did it, what it came out in the way that was abrasive? Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_01: 8:19

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was just criticizing you all the time because I didn't know any other way. So it just came out this harsh criticism, things like, you're so lazy, you never come and help with the housework. And that's because it I got to the end of the tether and I just speak like that, right? So should we maybe use that as an example, say, of like what would happen for me? So let's identify like if we're working with a couple in a session, you know, and they come to us with all sorts of things, you know. It's not the the milk that they're crying over, you know, it's not the spilt milk. It's and it's not the the fact that someone didn't pick up their towel and hang it up, it's not the fact that you didn't do the dishes that is causing this, you know. That's that is just the surface level like we spoke about. So we're gonna help um you guys to hear what we would maybe similar sit um process that we would take our couples through to help them understand what's going on in the deeper level because that's when we can start to repair and move through these things and not just keep brushing them under the carpet. So let's just say, for example, you know, I was trying to do the dishes, I was trying to get no, no, I was wanting you to do the dishes, and you just walked simply past the dishes and you sat down on the couch and you started to relax. And then all of a sudden I get wild because I haven't had a break either all day, and here you are just chilling out on the couch while there's a big sink of dishes, and then I'd probably say something like, Can't you see that there's a whole sink of dishes here? Don't you think you can like get off the couch and help me? And then what would that kind of do for you? What would your response be?

SPEAKER_00: 10:09

Well reaction, maybe if that's if if that's delivered to me, then yeah, I think straight away I would feel attacked, right? That to me is a an attack or a perceived attack, right? Yeah. So I've got my own things that I've been doing, and I I might feel like I deserve a rest right now just because you can't give yourself the opportunity to have a rest. Like, why is it that you need to project your frustrations on me? So I would feel like I'm attacked by you. Yeah. And when I'm attacked, then I'll defend.

SPEAKER_01: 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:50

Yeah. So my criticism comes out as a nag. Can't you come and help with the dishes? Why are you sitting down? Probably language that is not very nice, you're so lazy, can't you see what's happen, like what we need to get done here? And then you would what would be your response? Like, what words would you say to me?

SPEAKER_00: 11:09

Yeah, I'll like it's not a big deal. Like, I'll do it after dinner. It's not like you're turning this into something massive. And yesterday, when I wanted you to do something, right? Like, remember, I was I was saying that I wanted you to help with the trailer and moving it. Um, no, you couldn't do it then. Like, it had to be after you go and get your legs whacked. So, why is it okay now that you like demand me to do this? Right? So that's how my defensiveness would come across.

SPEAKER_01: 11:37

Yeah, so then I would probably in response to that, I would just go stuff it then. Fine. You just sit on the couch and be lazy, you know, like under my breath, maybe, or just like a bit of a gesture. And I would storm in the kitchen and I'd end up doing the dishes. And in the all the meanwhile, I would feel this frustration and anger and like, he's so bloody lazy. Why can't he come and give me a hand? How come he gets to chill out? Like all of these thoughts would be running around in my head, creating this story that you don't care, that you don't give a sh crap about me, you don't even want to help me or support me, you're never there for me when I need all these stories, would start like getting bigger and bigger in my head as the frustration grew because obviously I wasn't in a very calm space, so the mind kind of gets carried away with all of those thoughts, right?

SPEAKER_00: 12:26

Yeah, and then my story is something like yeah, you you you don't even allow me to have any freedom. Like, why does life have to be all about doing and chores and like knocking one thing over to the next? Um you are governing my life. Yeah, so that's that's the story that I would, yeah. She needs to be um, you know, she she doesn't want to be masculine. Well look at her, like you know, and and so it's she's the controller, right? She's she's the the she has this hierarchical aspect to her which um is demeaning, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:07

Yeah, for sure. And that probably I can imagine like you're questioning your worth there as well. Am I good enough? What's you know, maybe even deeper, but maybe we can go into that later. It'll be shame underneath it.

SPEAKER_00: 13:19

Yeah, I'm not doing enough. Yeah, I'm not good enough.

SPEAKER_01: 13:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then I guess for me, underneath what is happening on that outburst of anger, frustration, all those thoughts is yeah, I'm I'm feeling not valued, not important the way I do things, the way that are important to me. I'm not feeling supported, I'm not feeling really seen that you get that this is this is something really important to me. Yes, it's just the dishes, but to me it's like that means I can relax afterwards. And um, I yeah, I guess at the end of the day, when we look at the zoomed out picture, this is what I modeled from my mum. You know, this is what I my how my mum ran the house. And she had everything t tidy and cleaned up before she did anything, you know, before she could relax or chill out or have a day off. So that's obviously deeper than you know, my program too. But so that's the cycle, right? That we kind of just quickly mapped out is kind of a common cycle for lots of different couples to different degrees, maybe slightly different stories along the lines. But when couples can see that that's the pattern that they're in, like one person for me, I'm the controller, I need things done my way, I need to be able to have it done now and done the way I want it, um, because otherwise I've made up this belief that I don't you don't love me or you don't care about me, you don't see that thing I'm important or the things that I want are important, and you're just lazy, essentially, what I've created, right?

SPEAKER_00: 15:00

Yeah, yeah, and then and then so yeah, from all of this, what really needs to happen is getting an understanding of why this is important for each other, and this is the part that only gets revealed in conflict with most couples. We only get to see the reaction, I only get to see your fury in the moment, right? Which is that, oh, you're so lazy, why don't you ever help me? That's what I see, that's the map that I get. So it's it's like that that's not super helpful because now I'm gonna just get into defensiveness. So now we're in a cycle. So, what if you were able to communicate how important that is to you, how that impacts you positively if I am to initiate cleaning whatever it is that you want, and how that makes you feel. Because if you were to do that with me, not in the conflict, I'm talking at a calm state outside of the conflict, and saying it in a way that's healthy, that's delivered in a way that can that that I can receive, then I get to understand why I should be more attentive to that part, right? And then vice versa. So if it's important for me to relax for 15 minutes after I get home from work, and that's just my downtime that I really I really want, so that I can turn up great for the family that rest of that night, then if you knew that, then that's gonna be helpful for you to know that oh cool, yeah, that's his grace time, that's just the time that he has, and that's important to him, so he can turn up as a good husband.

SPEAKER_01: 16:34

Yeah, and that makes me having that awareness of you sharing that with me just while we're on there, it makes me feel calmer because I know that I guess my instinctual thought would be that you would you're always gonna sit on the couch and you're not gonna do anything ever. So like I will just automatically think that worst case. And but knowing that it's only gonna be 15 minutes, I can relax. I feel safer knowing that, right? There's like a safety piece that yeah, after 15 minutes, then he will help, and I'm okay with that. My nervous system can rest and I can be okay. Yeah, so that makes such a big impact. And then I guess on the reversal, if I was to approach you and and explain why it's important for me to have the kitchen tidied before I relax, you know, then that might be received in a whole new different way, hey?

SPEAKER_00: 17:27

Yep, exactly. So most of the time we bring up our frustrations and our anger in the exact worst time that we're to bring it up, right? It's in the moment of conflict or reactivity. So so what's what's an important step from here? Let's just say you guys have gone into conflict, like you've you know, you've we've had this blow-up that we've just spoken about. I've ended up not wanting to be near you, you're the same, you end up just doing the dishes. I'm like, yeah, whatever, she can just go and scrub those dishes or whatever. Maybe I'll try and make up with you by just giving you a hug and then you'll push me away, and then it'll be like, okay, fine, she doesn't want me anyway, right? Let's just say we're there. So, what what is it that we we should really be looking to do from here to get back on track, the two of us?

SPEAKER_01: 18:16

Yeah, I think um there's a couple of ways you can probably tackle it. But the first thing would would be to come back together when you're calm and regulated. Like if you've had that conflict, you've blown up, I've done up dying the dishes, I'll probably end up going to bed to be honest. But maybe the next day, once I've calmed down, I could we could come back together and have an opportunity to be like, hey, you know, I want to have a chat to you about what happened last night. You know, and then I could express what I felt then, you know. It could be something like when you sat on the couch and you didn't come and help me with the dishes, I felt like you didn't care, like you don't find it important um to complete the things that I you know that are bothering me that are important to me. And that makes me feel unloved, unappreciated, um, and yeah, really disconnected from you.

SPEAKER_00: 19:12

Yeah, cool. And then for me, like if I have uh enough emotional resilience in that moment, right, and this is just a whole nother concept and topic, is that like I sh I if I've worked on myself at least to the degree where I can receive that kind of information and not get triggered into my own story, then yeah, I would I would like yeah, kind of like really just try to understand that, you know, from your point of view and really just go, oh yeah, I can see, you know, I can see how you get wild, you know, when when say you see me just drifting off and chilling on the couch. Stay with I'm staying with her, right? So I'm staying with that and trying to help her to understand that I I care because I'm trying to understand it. So yeah, that's definitely a healthy thing to do. And then from that point, we might just slow this whole thing down, and then yeah. So when you said those words, right, which is that you're so lazy, it just instantly reminded me of like when I don't know, maybe my mum used to say that to me when I'd just chill out after coming home from school and she wanted all these jobs done. I don't know, it just reminded me of um I'm I'm I'm not in control of my life, like you're the one who's the controller. So I got triggered because I don't want to be correlled into the corner, I don't want to be someone who's submissive, I don't want to be dismissed and and um not dismissed. I don't want to be feel like I'm subservient or yeah, like like you're in control of me. So I'm gonna fight back. So that's where that hurt me. So I felt like you encroached on my freedom, which really um really got me got me going.

SPEAKER_01: 20:51

Yeah, so what we're doing there is it's kind of like we're identifying the trigger, like after we're calm and in a good space, we're like really getting under more understanding of the the trigger that caused that defensiveness for you, you know. And once we've got the trigger, then we can understand, I guess, the behavior which was shown, which was like that uh defending back and kind of just you know, um, I guess dismissing my want, you know, like ah just chill out, just don't worry about it. You always why do you have to do it now? We can do it later. Kind of um, you know, that was the behavior that you showed me, and then from the behavior, um, we can have a look at I guess what you were just talking about, the emotion. And the emotion there was that yeah, you were feeling controlled, and that was bringing up pain from the past where your mum used to do that. Yeah, yeah. And then from my side, then so my trigger was I guess you not helping. That was my trigger, because I probably I've been having a busy day and stressed out and feeling like thank God in your home, you can give me a hand now. So I was triggered when you didn't help. And so the behavior that came out was my criticism. Are you bloody never help? You're always so lazy. And um the next yeah, the next part about that is the emotion underneath that is I was feeling unloved, unappreciated. Um, yeah, so I think that when we can kind of break it down, trigger the surface level behavior, and then really deepening down and being curious, you know, what is the the emotion here? What is it, you know? Why does it hurt so much? Why do I need to kind of get my backup and my spikes out and you know, do this cycle?

SPEAKER_00: 22:42

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's almost like you're you both become forensic scientists on what just happened, and let's look at it from a an observational perspective, like the cycle. We're looking at the cycle. I'm not looking at you, I just this is what happened for you in that experience, but that contributed to this cycle that we played in. So it's almost like we're a scientist really observing and um and just getting curious about how did we create this mess again? Like how did this happen? And so it's not about attacking and blaming in the debrief, it's more about kind of finding out, oh yeah, right. So so you just assume that when I sit on the couch that I don't care. Oh, so if I was to, I don't know, like be clearer with you around my intention for the next 15 minutes, would that help? And yeah, so we're getting more information.

SPEAKER_01: 23:36

Yeah, and that's that's kind of like breaking the cycle. It's like making a bit of an action plan so this doesn't happen every time. Yeah. Because, like we said, we see this often, it's a similar sort of themes that keep coming up in relationships, but they're just not talked about, they're just not ever repaired or discussed, it just keeps going. And we were the same for years. We don't learn to do this.

SPEAKER_00: 24:00

We we can't get better. So the next time it happens, it happens in the moment. Yeah, so there's nothing we've learned because we haven't debriefed. Yeah. So we'll just do the same thing again, it'll be based on reactions, but the problem is the distance gets greater every time, or the or the the fire in the in the explosiveness gets bigger. So depending on what which way you guys um fight or argue.

SPEAKER_01: 24:22

More shut down and withdraw, or yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:24

Yeah, so things just get like there's a bigger wedge every time, and the tumour gets bigger, and if it gets too big, it becomes irreparable or incurable.

SPEAKER_01: 24:34

Yeah, I think that sums it up pretty well. Hey, I don't think there's much more to go into there, but we do have actually two, I've just found another one, um, two amazing resources that really help you to map your cycle. We've got a worksheet that takes you step by step, um, and then there's also this guide, this free um guide that we've got like triggers to trust guide. So, in there we kind of share a bit more deeply about what is the surface trigger, the surface emotion, but how can you actually communicate that from vulnerability? What are some of the language? Because this is let's be honest, this is all different and new. So, how do we know how to speak about this? So, um, if you're wanting uh those two free resources or just one of them, you feel free to message us, send us a DM, or um yeah, reach out on our website, we would love to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00: 25:24

Awesome. Hope you got something out of that. I know there can be some complexities in there and some different language. Um, but um, but yeah, I hope you got something out of that in terms of like seeing that there's a layer underneath what is revealed in the conflict. And if you don't explore that afterwards when you guys are calm, then it's gonna happen again. And it's gonna keep happening until it's just really foggy. And so, yeah, just just ab be the observer, zoom out, work through it together, and if you need help, reach out and we can help you with that, or just um grab one of these resources.

SPEAKER_01: 26:02

Yep. Thanks everyone.