Thrive Again - Your relationship podcast

Softening The "Strong Woman"

• Michael & Amy • Season 1 • Episode 67

Share episode

What if the “strong one” is secretly exhausted and aching to exhale? We dive into the hidden pattern of hyper-independence, why control often masks fear, and how couples can rebuild trust by trading silent resentment for steady leadership and genuine surrender. Drawing on our own journey and the breakthroughs from our recent couples retreat, we unpack the subtle, everyday moments that push partners apart: micromanaging, avoiding, redoing, and retreating to work because it feels safer than getting it “wrong.”

We share a simple roadmap that actually works in real homes. For men, it starts with accountability and presence: manage your energy, meet intensity with calm, and follow through on what you say. Think benevolent King energy—grounded, reliable, and in service to the relationship. For women, the shift begins with awareness and allowance: notice where you jump in, let imperfect attempts stand, and offer appreciation to reinforce what you want more of. When he leads with integrity, her body relaxes. When she softens, he feels accepted and steps in more. That loop turns roommates into teammates and restores the polarity that fuels intimacy.

You’ll hear practical language to use during tense moments, how to recognise the fear beneath control, and why “coming closer” beats “walking away” when spikes are out. We also explore origin stories—childhood roles, working patterns, and the moment kids arrive—and how these shape adult dynamics without us noticing. If you’re one or two tools away from a better rhythm, this conversation gives you the cues to start today: ground, allow, appreciate, and act with consistency. Love feels different when safety returns.

If this resonated, share it with a friend who needs relief, subscribe for more grounded relationship tools, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your story might be the nudge another couple needs to thrive again.

Thankyou for listening, if you liked it, please remember to subscribe.

Join our Private "Thriving relationships - Deepening connection to self and others" community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1107209283451758/

Website: https://michaelandamy.com.au/

Join our free 7 day relationship challenge: https://michaelandamy.com.au/free-relationship-challenge

If you would like to book in a private discovery call with us, here is the link: https://michaelandamy.com.au/call

SPEAKER_02:

Whatever multiple A means to your couples connection cultures. How many is to help couples thrive, using a cultures, and holistic approaches? It's podcasts for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper or meaningful soul level. We should insights, client breakthroughs, and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to another episode of Thrive Again, your relationship podcast. And it's Amy and Michael here once again for an episode. And I wanted to start with a check-in this morning, babe.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Doug.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Love to um do that so we can understand where we're at energetically and emotionally and all that sort of stuff. So let's just keep it simple.

SPEAKER_02:

I like simple.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, what sort of check-in do we want to do?

SPEAKER_01:

I think what can we celebrate you for? So a win and a challenge. So something that's challenging for you right now.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Do you want me to go first?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_02:

Okie dokie. So checking in with a celebration for me. Um well I'm gonna, yeah, I think for what's coming up is the weekend retreat. I think um I think it's a celebration for us, but I also will own it a little because there's part of me that was maybe a little um nervous or unsure about how the retreat would go, the couples retreat that we ran on Saturday. And I'm just celebrating the way that I showed up and how present we were and how easy and flowing and nourishing and fun it felt. That's my celebration.

SPEAKER_01:

Hell yeah. Yeah. Go you.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, and tell us a challenge.

SPEAKER_02:

A challenge. Hmm. A challenge for me so far this week has probably a conversation that I had just recently with a client that we're working with, and hearing other couples who are having challenges, who are having struggles in their relationship, and being so close to having a deep connected relationship and just missing one or two tools to get them to that point is challenging for me to witness them in that space. Um yeah, because I I obviously I feel for them, but I also see how close they are to um having this uh space of connection and love and support. Um so that is my challenge.

SPEAKER_01:

Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. What's the emotion for you with that?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I guess it's a little sadness, sadness for those couples who are experiencing challenges and disconnect and you know, um, loneliness in the relationship. Um but then also um a little a little frustration because it's kind of like I wish you could just remember what's underneath all of the the the conflict and the arguments because there is a really deep love for these guys in that particular case anyway, but most of the couples there is.

SPEAKER_03:

Cool, thanks, bud.

SPEAKER_02:

You're welcome. So your turn. So what's something that we can celebrate you for this week?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, um, celebrating me for yeah, really just stepping into more leadership and feeling embodied in that in the space with men and feeling activated in that and on purpose and yeah, just aligned. It's lighting me up a lot. So so yeah, it's just grabbing that and that torch and just running with it and feels good.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I love seeing that for you. It's so cool. Yeah, well done. Love it celebrating you for that.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, and a challenge. Um yeah, I think I think um, what's coming up for me? A challenge. Yeah, I think actually just noticing that sometimes I can my sometimes a pattern is when I feel like I've had some level of success, like especially with this retreat, I feel so good and so activated that um there's a part of me that wants to really relax and wants to let go and just kind of like enjoy and bask in in you know, like watching couples transform and all the things that have happened. Um yet there's still work to be done. So yeah, I think there's just like this part of me that just wants to kind of just uh chill out now and enjoy the fruits. But um, but yeah, there's there's many more couples that need some work and help, and and I think that's our mission. So I'm I'm on mission too. So yeah, that's been the challenge a little bit this week. It's just um motivated to continue.

SPEAKER_02:

Fair enough. Maybe we do need a little break though. Maybe we need to gift ourselves that space to just take that time. Anyway, all right, let's get into today's episode. So, guys, um, I think there was something on our hearts that we wanted to share with you guys more um today, and that is this um imbalance, I guess, in us women, in the the independence um that some women can fall into in relationship. And I experience this, we see other couples experience this. We're working with a particular couple that comes to mind right now that is struggling um with this independence that well, let's talk about me. But for many years I prided myself on being the strong one, on being the the woman who can do it all and have it all and sort it all out and and hold the weight of everything on my shoulders, and I used to think that that was my superpower. But over the last probably five years I'm learning that I don't like that anymore. I don't want that hyper-independence, that strong woman syndrome that um needs to hold it all together, and I actually really deeply crave your leadership, your your strength, and I can maybe surrender and soften more deeply into you and not having to hold it all myself.

SPEAKER_00:

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, that's what we want to talk about.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's get into that then. Yeah, yeah, cool. All right, yeah, and and I think back to maybe the the first few years of our relationship, and in a way, um I got with this hyper-independent woman, right? Like when I met you, you were very, you know, proud of your independence and your ability to hold yourself, and there was this security that you held in yourself that I revered, and I remember just just really thinking thinking back, like you had your own amazing network of friends, and you were into skydiving and doing that as a hobby every weekend. Uh, you know, you you're working, you had your own car, you had you know your own place, and it was it just was this image of someone who has got their stuff together and doesn't really need anyone else, and that was really the um that was the image um that I had of you back then. And I remember when we used to have these like little basketball matches. Do you remember? Oh yeah on King's Beach.

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't like you winning, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

We used to have these basketball matches, and what came out was this like you know, this woman who just wanted to win at all costs, so the competitive nature of you, and I think um when you know when you lost you weren't too happy with that, but then I noticed that there's this part of you that came into our our household that was the same, and you just wanted like this I can be as good at you with everything, and you know, it was in the kitchen, it was um it was everything, and then when we had kids, um you know, like motherhood took over, right? So yeah, maybe just um explain like how motherhood maybe just also shaped this aspect of you even more so.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I guess for me it was because essentially you were working that I kind of didn't have a choice but to continue with what I knew, and I and I guess I didn't know any other way, so I just continued being the independent, resilient, um hold it all together woman to yeah, to to to run the whole house. So I I didn't ever know how to ask you or to lean on you because I've never done it before, so therefore kids just kind of not stepped that up a notch, and I just created more of the same of what I knew, which was um probably um well it wasn't probably, it was definitely draining me and my um life force and um exhausting me, and I couldn't figure out why. Why am I so exhausted? Why am I actually deeply kind of overwhelmed with all of this stuff? Um and yeah, when now on reflection I realized that it was because I couldn't I couldn't ask, I didn't know how, I didn't I didn't know what was I was missing or craving underneath this strong woman syndrome that I'd kind of created for myself.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I just thought of this um example just to give the listeners a bit of an a view, but just imagine that I attempt it's a Saturday, I'm not working, and I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna take the kids, I'm gonna take them to the you know, down to the beach, and um and you're like and I'm like you just chill out, take it easy, right? And and so what I'd do is is I'd you know start packing the bags and maybe I'd just get a couple of things together and jump in the car with the kids and we'd go down for a couple of hours down to the beach, and yeah, I just remember when we talk about micromanaging, like I just remember this was a friction point for us because ability for you to let go of control was a problem, and maybe rightly so because you know, I mean I guess dads, you know, some of us just don't really remember, you know, things like hats and water bottles and all those sort of half-important things. And I remember just you know taking the reins, but then getting criticized for not doing it right, and then I'd end up just going, Well, why don't you just take them? I I never did that, I never kind of like was well, you just take them and then I'd disappear. I I I still took them, but I felt like I could never really live up to these standards that you had in your mind. So, in a way, like the relinquishing of control was probably what was needed, but both of us were playing into this, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And underneath that, now that I have the awareness that I have and you know understand myself a lot more, was a deep fear and a deep insecurity um and not feeling safe. You know, I didn't feel safe, period. So how could I surrender and let go of control when deep down I was I was yeah, not feeling like I could actually um really understand myself and who I was at that time either. So the the control and the micromanaging came out because of this insecurity in myself.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. So the your controlling of situations was just an attempt at trying to keep things um or or trying to avoid you know this this fear that you had or try to manage as fear that you maybe had underneath.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, 100%. And um because the fear was that if I wasn't in control, then who was?

SPEAKER_00:

Ah Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Who else was there to step up and who else was there to to lead uh and to you know show show me, I guess, that I could let go. And at that point, I guess in our relationship, I it's okay to say, right? Yeah, you certainly weren't in that space or the capacity to hold that for me the way that I needed back then.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well that's that's the only way we'd ever known.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. So you you that that's how you turn up in life, and this is how I turn up in life, and then when I actually lean in, I get criticized, so I might as well just stay over here and just let you lead all the house stuff and the kids stuff, and then I'll just do the work thing, right? And I'll just be really good at that. And then that way I can number one relinquish responsibility, um, and and and really not get criticized. I can stay, I can stay safe because you know I'm not gonna get criticized, I'm not gonna do it wrong. And so our conflict ended up becoming, well, what's the point? Why would I do that? Because it's only gonna get blasted at anyway. So yeah, we just come to this sticking point where we became roommates through that, and I think that that's really what was happening is it's safer for me to stay away, and interestingly, I was a paramedic, so you know, so the shift work really supported that too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, y underneath all of that for me was like this deep yearning for you to not stay away. It was a deep yearning for you to step in and take the reins. Um but yeah, there was such a like a resistance and this push-pull of of you doing that because I didn't trust you to do that, right? Because of my insecurity and my not feeling safe underneath all of that. So yeah, it was it it it's such a theme that we see in so many relationships, right? Like we when we study and analyse it just beneath the surface, we see the pattern that happens in many couples. It's it's so much deeper than just that surface. She controls me, I can't do anything right, I just retreat, I shut down. It's easier for me to avoid the family and just pop in when I can. And she's got it all together anyway, because she's strong and independent, and she she'll be right, she'll she'll figure it out. And here I here the woman is often actually exhausted, lonely, feeling isolated and completely um unsure how to continue to move forward because it's um it's it's it's like burning her out underneath all of that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I and I I guess I watched you maybe sometimes like spin out about that and and and maybe just you know say things like this just sucks, you know, you need to you need to be home more. I I can't do all this on my own. And and the story that I ran in my head was this is the life that you wanted.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So so that became our argument. Is like, well, like what more do you want from me? Like, I'm you know, I I'm already squeezed dry, like I'm working my ass off here. When I come back into the house, I feel like I've criticized all the time, and so you weren't ultimately being heard, and I wasn't really being curious enough to find out what was really happening for you. So then you would go on, yeah, whatever you needed to do, confide in your friends. Um, I would confide in mine, and then we would have this divide. So um this hyper-independence and this strength, and this woman who once you know I I really revered for your strength and your independence, um, the facade was crumbling down, and the real you was yearning and screaming out for um for transition to your natural state of being, I think, right, as a woman, which is actually a s a place of softness, which is a place of surrender and and trust, you know, and trust. But that needs in a partnership that actually needs someone to firstly be able to understand emotional attunement. So, firstly, to to even be with you in that and and try to find out and understand what's happening for you, even if it seems like it's trivial to me. And then, secondly, someone who can once he's listened to that, can he actually kind of receive that and then formulate some sort of leadership from that, which can alleviate pressure for her, which can allow her to kind of like just let go of the reins just a little bit, even if it seems edgy, even if it feels like I'm risking being criticized again. Like when I see you stressed nowadays and I see the tension high, I I might cut straight through the layer immediately. Whereas before I couldn't do that, and I'd do that by coming up to you to see if I can soften you a little. So instead of running away, I'd come towards. Not always, but I'm learning still that when your spikes are out, it's actually when you need softness and you need someone to actually regulate you a little.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think that's a good point for our audience. Like, so if you're in this sort of dynamic or you've it sounds familiar, um there is some steps to start to help move this dynamic into more of a partnership and support network. It's not so lonely and so independent in a relationship anymore. So, what would you say? Um, I'm gonna I'll ask you, maybe you can ask me, but what would you say that that men need to do in this scenario? What did you need to do to start to help me to soften back into my feminine and and surrender a little and let go more?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, good one. I think for me, like the first thing that actually comes to mind is that I actually needed to take accountability for firstly my own energy. So instead of being the victim of my quote unquote busyness, right? Just being the victim of that and saying, Well, I'm flat out, right? I needed to take responsibility and say, How am I actually looking after myself, filling my own cup so I can turn up as a present man for you and for me? Right, then accountability is such a big piece. So, like, what am I taking accountability for here? How have I actually contributed to this? And can I take ownership and speak this? And so that's that's kind of like the first step. And I talk about the King archetype, and this is from the masculine archetypes, um, derived from Carl Jung's work, who's a famous psychoanalyst and and psychiatrist. But it's this this kind of like overarching viewpoint, like having a look at the whole kingdom from above, like zooming right out and seeing, hey, am I the king of this kingdom? Am I actually act like acting with honour here and integrity, or am I am I a man without integrity? Am I a man that actually hides and runs away? Am I a weakling? Or am I a tyrant? You know, am I someone who actually dominates and really like overcompensates and and belittles? Right? So I needed to get that balance. And the for me, it it starts with accountability, it starts with going, yeah, you know what? Yeah, you're right. I've really been leaning a lot on you to look after the house. I've been leaning on you a lot to feed the kids at night and feed us. So yeah, and then I might I might inquire and say, like, hey, what do you need right now? So just imagine a king who's you know looking after his queen. What do you need right now? Right? What do you need to soften? What do you need to let go? Right? And that's sort of where it starts for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I I think um for me it's also even peeling back a little bit further about where this where this resilience and hyper-independence came from. Like, where didn't I feel safe in my life and why did I need to create this armour and protection for myself? Um, you know, and you don't have to deep dive into this, but just a curiosity question. I was like, where's this come from? And and for me, I think it came from just my my childhood. I was the youngest, I had to stand up for myself. Um, I kind of had um a fairly um lonely upbringing because I had my brother and sister were five and eight years older, so I was by myself, so I kind of was home uh alone a lot of the times in in my childhood. So yeah, I kind of felt like I had to prove myself, prove my worth, and that came from this um competition, competitiveness, and at school, you know, our boys are just as good as girls, or girls are just as good as boys, and anyway, so I explored that to help me to see why I was this way in the first place, and then I explored, I guess, um, how that shows up in our relationship and how I also contribute to um this pressure that I put on myself and to this inability to soften and surrender. Um and and notice in myself how I didn't allow the space for you to step in. I didn't allow, like for many, many, many years, because I was so stuck in my own ways, I didn't create a space for you to lead or take, you know, to be the king. Because I just um I guess filled that space with inadequacy. You're you're inadequate, you can't do it right, you're not good enough. You'll you'll never here, look out, I'll I'll do it. So I created my own hyperindependence and then how it um reflected in our relationship was me being exhausted, burnt out, cranky mum at the end of the day. So yeah, I needed to kind of step back and soften and notice when I was maybe putting myself in positions where I didn't really want to be, but um yeah, just catching myself in those moments.

SPEAKER_01:

Can I ask you then when you see me leading, when you see me seeing everything and then stepping into action and initiating what is it that happens to you?

SPEAKER_02:

It immediately allows my nervous system to relax. I can breathe, I can remember remember my truth. Like there is actually somebody else that can do that in our relationship, and it doesn't have to be me. And the weight's not on my shoulders to carry that. So essentially it's yeah, softening me at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Yeah, and I I notice when you do soften, then you are more flexible to me and my shortcomings. So all of a sudden we're creating this foundation, it's like it's it's kind of like fertilizing the soil with you know, amazing microbiome from the ground up again, where before it was really toxic, there was a lot of toxicity in the soil. And that allows for us to just turn this imbalance around. And then I feel like leaning in to be of service more. So again, like there's that benevolence and that that king energy of of being of service, actually. Like, how can I serve you? And what happens is I notice that I'm accepted, I notice that that you accept me, and so I feel like I belong more, and so I want to be around, and I have more confidence in myself to lead. So that that's kind of like something that we've witnessed in our relationship, and it's helped me as a man actually and as a person to kind of lead my own life because of this too. It's given me confidence instead of just curling up and becoming the weakling and playing the victim and chucking the arms in the air and just kind of going, Well, I can never get it right anyway, so what's the point? I am in a place of empowerment where I I get to take charge, I get to actually lead, but not with domination, not with domination, but with with kind of like this reverence for the relationship and for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it definitely feels uh a whole lot healthier and more balanced in our relationship from learning this journey, and I think we're still on it, right? It's just this continual sort of evolution, but um I I'm feeling safer and safer to soften and to let go and to surrender. And when that happens, I feel more feminine, more like a real like a queen, like being able to um notice that I don't I don't have to hold it. You've got it, you know. I I notice in myself, and I've noticed actually even in in my appearance sometimes, and even in my um in my language and and the way I win with the kids and with friends, it it ripples out into so many more areas. Um that yeah, I I don't have to be, yeah, I don't have to be the strong woman anymore. I can actually be it's be okay to to yeah, soften and surrender. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, cool. All right. So if there's one thing or one takeaway that the listeners can really can take away. Let's just go, let's just start from the from the woman's perspective, who let's say is in this hyper-independent strong mode. What's something that she can do to help turn the turn the ship around a little?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think what what would be helpful for them, and I just shared this with the client yesterday, is actually self-awareness, awareness of when you are stepping in and not allowing your partner to step up. So if you can just maybe lean back a little and just allow them space to lead and to be the king and to um maybe stuff things up, you know, maybe try to to do things, but maybe they're not getting it right. So can you just hold that back and and try and encourage as opposed to put him down or doubt him or question him? Can you recognise that he's making an attempt and encourage that more? So then that allows him to um do it off more often and and yeah, I think that's it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, awesome.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, how about for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, uh what do you say to the meaning? Firstly, I just want to acknowledge what you just said, and already like just those words help me to feel like like hell yeah. Yeah, I I would feel so much better if I got appreciation like for the things that I'm doing, the attempts that I'm making, and not so much ridiculed and criticized for the for the attempts if I don't get them right. So, yeah, yeah. Firstly, I want to acknowledge that. And for the men that are listening, uh, you know, how can you turn this ship around? Well, I think the first thing is just realizing that when she's upset, when she's frustrated, when she's angry, to recognize that there's that's that's just this surface layer emotion that you're witnessing, um, and it looks abrasive, right? And it looks like you should probably run away, but actually, what she's needing is your presence and your calm in that situation to be that grounded rock that can just remain calm in that situation, so she can then trust that if shit does hit the fan in your family unit that she can trust you, she can lean on you to actually remain calm, right? Stay grounded, stay present. Because if you're reactive all the time, then subconsciously she's just not going to trust that you'll ever be able to lead. So, can you ground yourself and at least work on that? And this is what I work with men with, which is actually getting out of your head and into your body a lot more, which helps us to be present in those situations. For for us, it's can you have that conversation with her and say, Hey, I'm really wanting to step up in this relationship and lead it more. I do feel like resistance from you, and I feel like I sometimes get shut down and criticized. But I'd love it if you know, if if while I'm practicing this, that you can help support me through this, and and that's like a real intentional conversation. And if you've done that, then I promise, like, she's really gonna take that in. Is she still gonna criticize? Yeah, probably because she's still learning to let go. But by having that intentional conversation and then seeing if you can hold yourself in integrity, which is really just doing what you say, then just keep leaning in, keep trying. To lead, you know, and and when when it doesn't work or when she backlashes or when she gets angry, then just remind her that you're you're looking to step into this and uh and then and then just keep attempting. It's a long process. Um, sometimes it can be shorter than others, but um, but for us it's been yeah, it's a journey.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I I I want to add that when we can get this balance right, you know, the the masculine, feminine, the softness, the leadership between the two, the love deepens and the connection grows, um, because it feels so much more natural this way. You know, like the intimacy is is next level when when I see you leading and when I see you taking ownership and control and um yeah, taking the responsibility of stuff that maybe hasn't gone so well and in the past you might have not have taken the responsibility, you might have pushed it away, or like you said earlier, um hidden, hidden or avoided, uh then I can when you don't do that, I can really soften and we can um have this kind of deeper connection that is only available when that polarity is right, when that masculine feminine is is in much more balance, right? Yeah, so I I I don't need to be in that space anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

Beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well does that sound about right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that was a good combo.

SPEAKER_02:

Nice, yeah. So therefore, it's okay to soften and and it's okay to feel the the bumps along the way, you know, the the hesitation, the in the the oh it doesn't feel safe. You put your guard back up, your shields back up, but the gentle reminder is um to keep coming back to love, to keep coming back to what's important, and um, and that is softening and surrendering so you can allow your partner to step in and lead.

SPEAKER_01:

And I want to just add this side note, which is kind of at a cosmic level, but your partner really is there to reflect back to you where there are patterns that are not serving you, and for me, I needed you to reflect back to me where I was not stepping into my truth, right? Into my potential, and it's easy these days for individuals to just go, ah, I'm done. See ya, I'm gonna find a man who can lead. But remember, you're still carrying this hyperindependent strength, right? You still got that trait there, you haven't moved through it, you haven't worked through it. So you're hoping someone else is going to step in and do it. But the problem is, is if you are holding this energy of hyperindependence, then guess what? You're gonna attract. You're probably going to attract a weakling man, you're gonna attract a man who actually doesn't know how to lead because he needs a strong woman, he needs someone that mimics his mum, and so it's just not really going to work. Um, it might seem like it'll work for a little bit, but then eventually when the tide goes out, everything gets exposed, and you just see it all again, you're in the same pattern. So I'm not saying you definitely just need to stay with this partner because it may not be the truth, but just consider like, is that are we just one or two steps away from actually doing this dance a lot better?

SPEAKER_02:

And we obviously help a lot of couples with that because it's it I I can imagine that's pretty um broad the number of people who are in this sort of dynamic where it it it's there's an imbalance in this in this space.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But we hope that that has helped you guys, and if it has, then I'd love for you to share that maybe with a friend or family. And um, yeah, we look forward to catching you on the next episode.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, thanks for listening. And uh, and if you are interested in something that's really special, um obviously we've just run this couples connection retreat in Agnes Water, and we're just we've just opened up a wait list for 2026, and that will be in April. But if we get enough enough interest early, um, who knows, we might run an extra one because this one just booked out without us really advertising. So if you're interested, make sure you jump on our website, go to our offerings and check it out. Make sure you jump on the wait list, and then uh yeah, we'll get you guys involved in a couples retreat, which is absolutely transformational in one day. And we saw some couples just move through some incredible, incredible stuff. So yeah, it was beautiful. All right, thanks, listeners.