Fearless Inner Peace and Relationships - With Manna Abraham

What if trauma isn’t what happened, but the meaning you keep choosing right now? We sit down with transformational guide Mana Abraham to reframe trauma as memory plus meaning and trace how that lens quietly builds identities that run our relationships: the “nice guy” who avoids conflict, the achiever proving they can’t be rejected, the partner who controls intimacy to feel safe. When those roles are powered by fear, our strengths flip into triggers, and love turns into management.

We unpack practical ways to meet each other’s minds instead of fighting each other’s behaviours. Curiosity beats certainty. One more question creates sense‑making: “You’re not dismissing me; you’re protecting us from scarcity.” We get into intimacy blocks, too, from mismatched libido to the giver‑receiver tangle that makes sex a performance instead of presence. Manna shows how sovereignty and non‑attachment shift desire from negotiation to genuine connection, and why congruence matters more than techniques. See your partner as a magical being and your energy invites that becoming.

Here’s the liberating pivot: change doesn’t require digging through timelines. The past is a training wheel; the present is the steering. The mind holds memory, ego, subconscious and discernment, and discernment is the missing muscle. Consistent, conscious choice in this moment rewires patterns because the mind follows what’s repeated, not what’s righteous. Drop attachment to meanings, charge your own battery, and love becomes less transactional and more expansive. We wrap with Manna’s Finally Free framework and EMPR method, plus where to find her book and free trainings.

If this conversation sparked something, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review telling us the one meaning you’re ready to drop.

To access Manna's free resources, book "Finally Free" and her world-renowned EMPR method, visit: mannaabraham.com

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Transcript

Welcome And Mana’s Mission

SPEAKER_07 0:09

Where Michael and I need your couples connection postures. Our mission is to help couples thrive using a conscious and holistic approach. This podcast is to couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs, and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

It's been uh a while, and um, for the listeners here, probably not aware, but Mana Abraham was a huge part of uh Amy and I our journey into relationship work from the beginning. So um welcome to the show, Mana. It's so incredible to have you here with us on our podcast. And uh and I'd I really just um yeah, we're super grateful to have you um back in our space again. And today I'm looking forward to yeah, just jamming and seeing what we can come up with to help some of the listeners with their relationships. Um love to start by just asking you if you could maybe tell the listeners um who you are and and what you do in the world.

Defining Trauma As Meaning And Memory

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Thank you, Amy and Mike. So the name of my company is Life Full Circle, and I think this is a perfect life full circle, but we are sitting together for a podcast, so that's life full circle, isn't it? Right. So, but we are still together, but not where we were, right? So this is a total change. So that is life full circle. And for listeners who are listening to me, I'm Mana Abraham, and my message to the world is equip yourself to lead your life with fearless inner peace. And when you fill yourself with this fearless inner peace, and when that fearless inner peace is only possible when you're in total alignment with your real true self. So if your journey is towards finding that faith in you, finding your potential and leading your life with fearless inner peace, you can be a better parent, a good partner, successful careers, relationships, a good leader, and moreover, a good human because end of the day, we are all the batteries who have to charge ourselves so we can charge each other. So I think my message and everything that I do, including trauma healing, is to help you to lead your life with that fearless inner peace. And um, I use various methods, techniques, and all of that, but this is where I can help, and this is where I guide you.

SPEAKER_07 2:56

Amazing. Yeah, that's uh it's definitely something that you've helped us with finding our own inner peace. And we're still, you know, I think it's a work in progress, but yeah, we're still getting there. And I I think it's amazing that your your message in the world is so clear and so um relevant, you know, for for many of us, because I think it's um often blocked, you know, having our own inner peace and that fearless inner peace is often blocked from trauma, from from our past, from our you know, childhood, and even beyond that as well. So I'd love to ask you, um, Mana, then in your opinion, what is trauma? What's your definition of trauma? And yeah, and and yeah, I'll leave that with you.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Yeah. Sure. Thank you. Me, so there are for categorization, we call traumas major traumas, complex traumas, minor traumas, and it's a human construct of defining what is a major trauma and what is a minor trauma, right? So a person who experienced a catastrophe or in a war or in an accident, something brutal, our categorization of that is it's a major trauma, right? And it's complex trauma. And say, for example, if somebody is coming in and saying, you know what, I was walking the driveway and I asked for a vanilla ice cream to my father and he said no to me. In comparison, this is a minor, that's like negligible. Can you see that? But what if this is the rejection for a vanilla ice cream is the major complex trauma, and the catastrophe and the accidents are just minor trauma? So working with different minds and right from complex, violent, uh irrational, traumatic memories to the so-called simple traumas that we reflect on. Trauma is simply a memory and a meaning. So the significance and the attachment you have to that memory and the meaning makes it complex, not the event itself. Right? So I experienced tsunami and uh I went home and went, I just walked in the morning to give my exam, and I come back, it's a tsunami, and you have all these uh dead bodies in the streets, and um you had to evacuate that night from the place, and another wave alert and everything else. I never knew that's a trauma. I never knew that can be a trauma till I came here. Right? And then I was just communicating very casually. It's a tsunami. I was there and I evacuated. Six months we didn't have a place to live. We came back, and that night we had to travel by train, like crowded, because people are evacuating, so you don't have system, no telephones, nothing else, and you're in this train crowded, and six uh one night we had to travel to go to the nearby state, so we are free from here. So, but that is an experience, isn't it? Right, but I never classified it as a traumatic memory. But for the other person who is listening to this, oh, that's a big event. Oh my god, that's only you're talking about death and you're talking about evacuating everything, leaving everything, and coming back after six months. Can you see that? So the meaning and the memory that you attach to that event, yeah, right, is the trauma. Yeah, not the event itself, wherever you are, whatever you're experiencing.

How Childhood Rejection Shapes Identity

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, why this really resonates with me is because I worked as a paramedic for 13 years, and when I tell somebody that for the first time, they something changes in their in their face, and and it's almost like they not everyone, but a lot of people, they change to this, oh wow, geez, that that must have been traumatic for you. Yeah, and to me, like I'm always kind of baffled by that, and I want to sort of say to them, I saw some things that would be obviously hard, but how I processed that was probably a lot different to how you would. And so, you versus me, the meaning that I put on that is different, and so for me, I wouldn't stay in a job where I'm traumatized every day. Like, why would I do that? So, so yeah, I just think um, you know, Vink of Victor Frankel in in his book Man's Search for Meaning, he he he talks a lot about about the meaning that we attach to all these experiences, and that's what really matters, and that's what and so I think that's what you're alluding to is that yeah, everyone has their own interpretation of events, and um yeah. So I I guess I'm I'm also thinking about that father with the ice cream, and and maybe the little girl who maybe just experienced the moment of rejection or maybe multiple moments of rejection, but to the average human, like who sees that is like, oh come on, get over it. Like, you know, you really should be okay with that. That's just life.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

So how might multiple experiences like that for a little girl, how might that shape how that little girl interacts with other humans in her adult life if that's not really um yeah, I guess like um reconciled?

Triggers, Core Natures And Fear

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah. So I think before stepping into reconciliation, quite often we brush it away, right? As it's very normal to think. But from a trauma aspect, what we have to remember is it's not just uh meaning and a memory of the mind, it's also of the body and also of the energy, right? So that's why there are many people who can logically you process it, you get it. Like many people are here saying, Yeah, my parents did the best they can, I forgive them, but did you? Right? I'm still not trying to prove or fix in some form, though you can say, Oh, I so logical thinking is not logical memory, is not the only memory. There is an emotional memory, physical memory emotions, which is a physical memory, and an energetic memory, and that is coded in the DNA, right? Even if you look into the research of epigenetics, they talk about that memory that is coded that that we carry, right? But that is only getting activated when you focus on that, right? There is a gene in us which can be absolutely saintly, or this can be something that can make us absolutely wicked or jealous, but where you focus on that will grow. Right? So for that child to tap into that, that memory or that meaning is right, and we all are different, right? So for that, how many years of life experiences that little girl had is irrelevant if she's carrying that memory physically, mentally, and energetically, which can be taken from parents or ancestral or generational, right? So that that child has got nothing that she is aware of in the way she processed it and made a meaning in many ways. While children are very intelligent, though I'm I'm talking about both the sides of it. One, they don't have control, they don't know. That's how they inter like you have two kids, one kid interprets completely different from the other kid, and you're not it's their perception too, but also the environment too, environment, the internal environment. But when this little girl is growing up, and if that little girl with uh rejected for an ice cream, right, if that memory is etched in her physical, mental, and energetic fields, there are only two ways that she can operate. Spend her entire life avoiding rejection, or spend her entire life believing she's not lovable. Right? Or the third way, when that awareness kicks in, the third way it doesn't matter. Right? But our journey, like uh even the work that we do is mostly people choose either that yeah, uh how can I avoid rejection, right? In order to avoid rejection, so the identity that the girl has already created is I am rejectable. The moment you created that identity, you can become a leader, you can become a CEO, you can become a chairperson, you can become an industrialist just to avoid that rejection. Like nobody can reject me. Now prove me wrong, now reject me. Can you see how that can go there? And in the process of all because I wanted to avoid rejection. However, when you reach that point where okay, now prove me wrong. Who can reject me? Right? So they're successful materially and everything else, they're successful, but what it all it takes is one rejection to pull them down. Because that's the one thing that they're avoiding, right? So there's no amount of leadership training you can give to this girl at that stage of how to negotiate, how to delegate, how to influence, because the control to avoid rejection is the threat. But the ego or that pride of that I did it, I achieved it, or I made it happen may not allow them to be aware of this, right? You don't have to dig into the past, you only have to look into this present moment and see if I'm operating towards that or if I'm operating away from something. Right, only in this present moment, right? So that is one trajectory for the little girl. The other trajectory to the other little girl to avoid rejection, I'll not even entertain that in the first place. Coming into relationships, I'll not allow anybody into my life. Why? Because if you don't come in, I don't have if you don't come into my life, then there is nothing called rejection because even there's no nothing called leaving me. Can you see that? How that our same identity is manifesting in the relationships, right? And then at that point of time, I have one common thing in relationships possessiveness and jealousy, right? So when that little girl who is carrying this idea of rejection finally finds something that she wants, can you see believe how stubborn she can become about that? Like that is mine, possessiveness. Nobody should take that away from me. But it looks like I finally found my love, but perhaps I'm finally finding something to attach to. So are you attached to the person or are you attached to the belief that I am no longer rejectable? Can you say that? So that's another way it will manifest. So there are two ways, like however you want to take it, right? So you can become absolutely there, you're absolutely here, or you can drown into sadness, depression, not take care of yourself, not take care of your health. And you know, people create even people create real diseases in their body just to be loved. Because somehow, because with my strength, I cannot get attention. So with my weakness, I'll get attention. So it's just like children having tummy aches to go to school, yeah. Right? It becomes that in the on the lighter side of it, right? And then you can create that in relationships too. So or you can constantly become a damsel in distress if it is women or men, you can become the strong providers to fulfill something because who am I if I am not providing, or who am I if I am not understanding? So, can you see how we are actually running away to prove another identity wrong?

SPEAKER_07 15:57

Yeah, or pull from a trauma that started, or a or a memory that we've created, yeah, you know, from a childhood thing.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yeah, childhood, yeah. So it can manifest in all these different ways, or uh another case study where a little boy who experienced his parents separating and the grief of his mom, and that boy decided I will never upset another woman in my life, and I will never be like my father. Guess what? When he gets into a relationship, can you imagine the values that will guide him? I will never leave this, even to my own detriment. I will keep this together.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Can you see how we see it a lot?

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, yeah, that's what so that's how the identities and the memory of the event that can shape them.

SPEAKER_07 16:44

No wonder relationships are so complex, you know, like really, you know, like it's it we we obviously work in this space, but you know, to see like the the what what each person's bringing into the relationship space and and and the the past and the identities and the the the story that they're holding on to and how it can actually cause so much chaos for you know, until there's some awareness piece, you know, to to that that to be able to help them to see, oh, this is this is the pattern, this is what's happening here, this is can you see this? Um and and often it's it's very, very tricky to to identify yourself, like if you're in a relationship, like Michael and I, like we we can't see our own blind spots and our own shadows. So yeah, it takes sometimes that extra um outside perspective or or awareness to help you shift that or to bring more um yeah, consciousness to it, I suppose, more so than than anything else.

Understanding Minds Over Blame

SPEAKER_01 17:44

But yeah. Well what about what about that then? So so in relationships, like you know, we talk about triggers a lot, right? And so this is another maybe another way in which it can bring perspective to us, or it can just cause emotional, you know, turmoil for us, and then we blame and point the finger to the other person, and you're the the reason why I'm suffering right now. So, all right, I'll give you an example. Like, like maybe one of the the identities that I have had over the years, and and you could call it a mask or whatever you want to call it, is being the good guy, right? And we spoke about this before we jumped on recording, and it's it's like the like the nice guy syndrome. And in a way, I was always known as the peacekeeper, the guy who doesn't rock the boat, who you know can kind of like keep an even keel, make sure there's no conflict at all costs. Um yeah, so that that really had become a big part of my identity, and I'm still working on on that. But how this caused issues in our relationship is in really subtle ways that maybe people wouldn't be able to see from the outside because I would make sure that I have the identity that I'm squeaky clean. But see, Amy would maybe experience that she's not prioritised because I'll prioritize everybody else and make sure that I'm perceived as being this good guy, and so yeah, in a way, it would cause all of these issues because I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to create conflict, I wouldn't want to um her to be upset about anything either, so I'd try and quell her her problems down, and then so she would get more frustrated because I would just smooth things over continuously, and so but there was no depth to it, right?

SPEAKER_07 19:35

There was no ability to for us to go in into a deeper, you know, space in that in that when you're you're creating that identity or or having that identity.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah, well you you couldn't experience me, but where the trigger comes in, this is where I was getting at, was like I would get triggered by Amy when she challenges my nice guy identity by Maybe being more decisive or being more abrupt with people and telling me that I need to cut that person away, or you know, just just really kind of to me, I saw it as she's trying to make me be someone that I'm not. But in that moment, I would feel like a jarring feeling, and that would be a trigger for me. So can you maybe like unfold how or maybe speak about how our triggers can kind of be maybe helpful for us in some way?

Intimacy Blocks And Identity Patterns

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah, yeah, sure. So just from what you have shared, if I explain it, we all have our core natures, and in in this scenario, your nature is kindness. That's your core nature. Kindness is your core nature, but that kindness you can so that's the beauty of your personality, right? Kindness, right? So it's almost like being peaceful is more important than being right, right? That's an extreme good quality of that personality, of that nature, right? So if that purity of that nature that is retained that way and it is stemming from only that space, then you can go and serve the world, not a problem. Right? However, if you are now you have that's your nature, by virtue of various situations, you mastered it, you developed that nature. But if that nature also has some elements of or origins in it, from avoiding a conflict, or from avoiding authority, or from avoiding childhood authoritative parents, or like that little boy I talked about, where parents split and he wanted to be the defender for uh his mom, and then he went on to create a family that he will never leave, even if it is detrimental. Can you see your nature is the strength, your strength? So if I leave Michael into the world, you will light the world with kindness and everything else, right? However, the shadow side of it, the other side of it, is the fear. Like, what do you fear if you're not kind?

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:31

So that's why the questions I ask like, what am I afraid of if I'm not kind? What is my fear, or what am I avoiding by being this good person? Yeah, right. So that is that fearless inner peace. So when there is no fear behind, because that's your nature, you're born like that. Like if you look at Amy, Amy's nature, go get it done. What are you worried about? Move, right? That's Amy's nature, right? But that the same way, the same nature that's your strength. Like if you had to run an organization, give it to her, she will deal with it, right? But the same greatest strength, if it is stemming from I hate sitting, I hate people who are inefficient and lazy. Can you see the identity you're avoiding another identity? And based on that, if you are strengthening this, then that is the trigger. I say then if I'm going a little more soft in it, like if you go a little more deep into it, when you are servicing or when you are contributing or when you are serving people, just in um Michael's scenario of example, if there is no what is in it for me, you're brilliant. But when there is what is in it for me, that's the strategy and skill now you need because we all have what is in it for me, isn't it? Right? So can you see the strength of the same identity, like what is in it for me and the kindness, same thing with Amy, like you're a go-getter, you can execute, but what is in it for me, right? Otherwise, you can go and paint the world.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Are you seeing that?

SPEAKER_00 24:26

So there's something underlying that I want in my way. And that I want in my way, if it is stemming from fear, for example, the I talk about identities in what I teach and in that younger identity, right? Firstborn, middleborn, thirdborn identity. If you have a lastborn or a third-born identity, then usually you will be doing opposite to what the other siblings did. Right?

SPEAKER_05 24:57

Timey.

Choice In The Present Over Past

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Yeah, right. Yeah. So if the eldest one is very responsible, I will become creative. If the eldest one is naughty and hurting parents or doing what they want, I will not do that. I will actually please my parents. So the identity, even that way, because it's not about the people, it's the mind. Because minds always have to find that balance in it, right? Good and bad, right and wrong, pleasing, not pleasing, right? So, in that process, in the same scenario where you can prioritize second Amy and prioritize first the world because this is your safe space. Yeah, nothing you somehow believe there is nothing to lose, like I will not lose anything here because this is mine. Can you see that? Actually, the mind operates from that space, like this is mine, I will not lose this. So, where would you focus where you fear losing something? Can you see that? But that is not how Amy's mind will interpret. Yeah, in that scenario, you're actually like grounded, like this is my partner, my family will not let me down. So, yes, I got it. So, this is secure, I'll go and chase that. That's actually what this mind is doing. But this mind, who is after chasing and getting things done, cannot see that I can be like that, like that much security that I am giving, because I call it, I talk a lot about elements. So, in that element, you're you fall under that fire and air, like moving, getting it done, right? So that fire and air cannot see the security that this person is holding in that same relationship. Are you seeing that? So we are carried away by our emotions and our identities. So it's not wrong, it's really about understanding how this mind works and how this mind works, and how can we bring skill and strategy in it?

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

But when we do not have awareness, and if we are like me, about me, me, me, you may be thinking, wait a minute, I'm working for you, I'm doing all these things for the family, I'm earning for the family. How are you not my priority? Can be your thinking process, for example, and your thinking, I gave up my life, my career, and everything for the family. Where am I? Yeah, can you see that? How we can get, but actually, you both are like not you, the minds, both the minds are actually the most beautiful minds, but because we don't understand the mind, we bring it down to people, right? Yeah, so people are not their behaviors, yeah, and people are not also who they are, it's only the mind. If you can really look at the minds at play, then it is no more about your identity as a wife or a partner or a man or a family person or a provider or a giver, it's no more about that, it's just how these minds are coming together. And if you don't understand that, they become your triggers.

SPEAKER_07 28:20

I like that. Yeah, yeah, it's very true. I just want to reiterate that for listeners, what just dropped in there. Yeah, your triggers are are created from the mind. And then if you if yeah, if you're not aware or understand each other's minds, then you're continually getting triggered. Yeah, in whatever ways they show up.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah, yeah, I think that understanding piece around getting to know the other person's mind and how they operate and how they work, and then be able to this is kind of the work that we do with couples, is help them to interpret better how that person is interpreting the situation. So, can we help them to get better with their language, um, with their curiosity, um, with their ability to not necessarily try to love their partner better, but try to understand their partner better. Because if they can if they can just spend just an extra question or two before they jump into, oh, this clashes with my values, how you just said that. Let's just spend some more time here so I can get more information about how your mind operates. Then then there's like a like a sense making that happens for that other person if it's done right. And it's like, oh, I get it. So it's not that you don't want to prioritize me, it's that you're actually scared that if you don't go to work every single day, um, that we're gonna go broke. And there's like this fear there for you. And I didn't I didn't actually realize that. It's not that you don't love me, it's actually that you do love me, and it's that you want to you want to protect me and you want to provide everything for me so I don't have to worry about this sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Finally Free: Method And Mindset

SPEAKER_07 30:04

It's so interesting, isn't it the dynamic of relationship? I think it's just fascinating so so much. I'd love to to dive a little bit into um, because I know our audience, this is a is a big topic, but into in intimacy and relationship, if we can. Is that okay? Yeah, into intimacy in the relationship and also um talking about, I guess we had some clients recently, and um, you know, she she's desiring more intimacy, but she just can't, she doesn't her body doesn't allow her, she's just like, oh, it's not on my mind. I know he needs it, I know he wants it, um, but I just I'm blocked. Like I just don't have any energy for it. And also there's always these stories that she creates, you know, like these reasons or excuses why she can't be intimate in a relation in the relationship. And I'm wondering from your perspective, I guess from your you know, your angle of trauma and and nervous system sort of stuff, what what's happening here often in relationship when there's a block with intimacy from either male or female? Can you yeah, I guess it's a broad question, but yeah, what are your thoughts there?

Sovereignty, Non‑Attachment And Love

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yeah, and and um so you can view it in multiple ways. One can be absolutely genuine reason that people are wired differently, right? Some people have stronger, higher libidos, and some people are not so strong, and they don't have that strong desire. That's a very natural part of any human being, right? So that after that, after that, it can be lifestyle challenges or foods you eat or how you that's a secondary one, but primarily everybody has different needs, that's the bottom line, right? However, nature of the mind only sees man and a woman, it does not see how different everybody's needs are, right? Now, again, going by uh experiences of working with different people with different needs, one person decided that I don't want to be like my dad, right? She decided I don't want to be like him because she decided she does not want to be like him, it's again not identity, it's something underlying that happens too, which is we try to fix the invisible people that we could not fix, right? The father that I could not fix, I will fix through my partner or my best friend or my daughter or my son. The invisible identities that we try to fix because it became a challenge, it became a motto to do that. Or any problem of this world, I really break it down into to be even more simpler two things. Right? You want something, you don't want something, period. That's it. If you don't have that, there is no problem in this world. That's it, that is the only problem. So if you're only seeing what do I want and what do I don't want, that alone, if you're C questioning it, this entire intimacy problems are solved. Why? Because, like one scenario, right? I don't want to be committed, I don't want my freedom to be taken. My mom lost her career, lost everything, she gave it all to the family. I don't want to be like that. Intimacy, I don't want commitment, I don't want that, and what do you do? You exactly operate on that identity. Like I'm trying to fix a mom who could not live her life on her terms. Can you see one invisible identity? So, do you ever think I can give a committed relationship or this person can ever be committed in anything in that process? Because what they want is freedom, but stemming from the fear that she might end up like that person. Yeah, right? That is one way. The second, again, just before we jump in, we're talking about the concept of giving and receiving. When your self-worth is low, or when we carry on these kind of memories at some point, which is again funny, it's a human construct, but still when we are repeating the stories of those memories and we get stuck in this giver-receiver mode, like giving is good, receiving is bad, is a very common thing in relationships and intimacy that you have to give. And everybody, the people who want to give, they're people who believe they should give. So the aversion that you develop towards that is also a challenge. Right? Or are trying to fit into that mould of giving while you're not, or trying to define your worth by giving while that is not your cup of tea, or trying to avoid receiving for the fear of returning your favor. Can you see that? So how you do small things is how you do everything, right? And that is another right, that's another way how people operate in intimacies. The third is where there is this person again, it's a real real life story, real case studies here. Another person who believed that in a big joint family, her aunt had an advantage because she's physically attractive and good with men. Right? Can you see how that little identity developed, thinking that if I have a great body and if I can do that, then no man will hurt me. And by controlling men, I can control other women in the house. Can you see how that identity is playing? And now, when you bring it up, now in her 50s with grown-up kids and everything else, can you now see how that intimacy is still an act of control and not an act of being? Yeah, yeah, withholding and giving, everything stems. Can you see that now? Now I want it, but what if the other person, like we are sensitive beings, we sense each other beyond language, we sense it, it's not actions, it's not the words we sense. Now, this person who wants absolute intimacy with her desires and everything else. What if the other person's meaning is I don't want to fall into this control? Yeah, right? I don't want to take when you give, I want it when I want. Can you now see how these identities are playing up? Different minds, different constitution coming together. So it's really not about how much or how less we need. It's really about am I operating again, fearless? Am I operating without any fear? Or am I operating from some form of fear, good or bad, kind or not kind, it doesn't matter. Is it all coming stemming from some form of fear? Right? Then comes because again, society, we are driven by that, that great intimacy equals great relationship, is it?

SPEAKER_07 37:46

No, I haven't.

Resources And Closing Gratitude

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Can you say this? The conditioning, but when you identify yourself with that, then not getting it means I am not a good partner. Can you see how the meaning can play and how we undervalue, like whether men or women, we do that, right? So there's much more to that. So that's how these are classic intimacy issues, and it can go, as I said, it can go to the point of creating mental diseases, yeah, or it can go to the point of creating physical diseases that, but we don't want to accept that. But that's the construction of the mind. Mind has no right or wrong, mind has no good or bad. Whatever is consistent will win. Right? Good and bad, right and wrong is our construct, like time, right? So, from my point of view, there is no trauma except the meaning you're choosing now. There is no past, people can get into past lives and stories, but this moment, what are you choosing? That's why consistent conscious choice. This moment, what are you choosing? Right? You're not generating the thoughts, are you? You're receiving the thoughts. So if this energy field is able to entertain those thoughts at that frequency, nine billion people, this frequency can come through this channel, and I am actually holding on to that thought. Maybe my thought may not be my thought. Can you say that? So we are not generating it, we are receiving it, and where we are, we are and we are entertaining it, right? But past is a human conditioning, and we want to show that time is, but is time linear, really? Yeah, can you see how is it? So, yeah, so these all things play a role, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

I do love where we're going with this. There's probably a lot of me that wants to go deep here, but I I I want to ask just around this this point here if the past doesn't exist, then how does somebody Move through changing an identity or relieving themselves from these prisons that they've created without like, do they need to go back into the so-called past and heal their trauma? Or is it literally like in this moment I can shift and change?

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah. So in my line of work, I don't do timelines, regressions, pastimes. I don't do that because my my line of work, it doesn't exist. Right? What exists is only this moment.

SPEAKER_05 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Right? Again, if you go deep and spiritual, is there a this moment, right? Doesn't matter. But right now, where you are is your this moment. And in that moment, what choice are you making? That's all. That's the period. That's all it is. In this moment, what choice am I making? In this moment, what memory I want to choose, what thought I want to choose, what action I want to take. That's it. This moment, that's why consistent conscious choice, discernment. They're the qualities of the mind, right? Mind has four qualities, right? It operates from memory, operates from ego, operates from subconscious, operates from intellect and discernment. We are equipped with that. But we are conditioned not to use this one faculty called discernment. Right? So everything begins with that lack of discernment. So in this moment, but this I may be absolutely right, but perhaps in this moment I should choose to be wrong. Can you see that?

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

I'm absolutely right. But if my discernment is losing and my identity that I am right, I have to prove that I am right. My identity, my ego wins. We create another situation, another memory, right? So, but again, having said that, as we are in this space, we are having this uh very high level of conversation. But where people are, you have we have to start where we are, like you know, for the child, the teddy bear is real, yeah, it speaks to them, they sleep with it, they talk to that, and you pamper the teddy bear too, along with the child, though you know it's just a stuffed toy, yeah, right? So everybody carries their stuffed toys, yeah, right? The only thing is, as practitioners, we should stop, we should not start believing that stuffed toy is a person, right? So, but we had to play with it, we had to go with it. This it's just something to hold on to, and once you get comfortable with two wheels, you'll take away the training wheel. So, past is a training wheel, and then you remove it once you get there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Amazing. So, can you just tell us a little bit about your work? I know you've just released um a book finally free, and um, maybe you can talk a little bit about your work and even the EMPR method and and this amazing uh you know method that you're taking all around the world.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Yeah, thank you, Mike. So the finally free actually came from it came from the need and the demand because um there's so many people that who need this help, as I was saying the other day, right now there are about 6,000, 8,000 people who are reaching out for help, and I cannot reach out to them, I cannot work with them, and so I need more hands and more um brains, more hearts to work with it. So the easiest way I could do is spend the time in putting that finally free together. And if you don't, don't please do not read the book, do the book, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:48

And if we are doing the book, that will take you step by step to overcome because everything, whether you're a leader, parent, partner, relationship, you're purely operating from just three things. Because if you are a living, breathing human being, nine billion people, if there is anything common, emotion, memory, and pattern, you cannot go beyond this. Anything else, don't go wide, go deep. That's it, emotion, memory, pattern. And if you can stop working on patterns and habits instead of working on changing them, if you can start seeing yourself as this mind, body, energy being and understand that I am not my mind, I am not my body, I am not my energy, then we don't fall into the stories of the mind, body, and energy. So the finally free book is to give you that distinction that you do not need time to heal, because time is a human construct. You are not your mind, you are not your thoughts because they are different entities from you. I am different from my mind, body. But because we are not equipped to have a dialogue with the mind, we are not equipped and trained to have a dialogue with the body or the energy. We think I am that, like child thinking my best friend is a teddy bear. But I'm not my teddy bear, isn't it? It's a projection of me. Can you see that? So that's the finally free book. So if you do the book, then if you truly understand the constitution of the mind and not looking at yourself as an object to fix or a technique or a modality to be applied, that realization, that understanding will free you.

SPEAKER_05 45:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

So you stop imposing your values on others, and then naturally, as I said, that likes and dislikes once we drop, though not easy, but still, at least to some extent, if we drop that, that attachments will drop. When those attachments, attachments not to people, you are never attached to people, you're never attached to things, you're attached to what that means to you. When those attachments drop, you're free. That's why I call the book finally free. So lead with fearless inner peace. When that attachment drops, also going a little bit of a tangent here, when you stop relating to people as people and stop expecting from them, you will tap into a higher energy that is you. And once you start tapping into your source, your energy that your whatever your language is, whatever that is for you, once you tap into it, and once you realize that you can create what you want, then your dependency on your partner or organizations or communities is less. You don't depend on them, you exist with them, and then you're free because when I can create what I want, why should I please you to give me something? I don't want that. I say that even if everything is at stake, when I know that I am operating from this fearless inner peace and you are only a conduit in this bigger picture, why will I even expect from you? I say that that's the meaning of dropping that like and dislike. Does not mean I don't like my coffee, but I don't expect you to give me my coffee, I'll get it. Are you seeing that? If that basic understanding is instilled in every relationship, can you imagine you can only see potential of your partner? Yeah, how you are displaying it is irrelevant. And interestingly, I want to give you this story. Everyone, please take this story of the three blind men who look looked at this animal who felt it, who touched it, and they said, This feels like ears, this feels like the tail, this feels like the trunk. Oh, this must be an elephant. But what if that was never an elephant and it was a magical being turned into an elephant because of these three blind men?

SPEAKER_05 48:17

Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Yeah, yeah, so relationships, partners. If you can see your partner as a magical being, hundred percent they will become that. We are bound to that because our energy is like that. You're bound like a goldfish in a bowl, right? So if you are viewing them with a limited perception, they are limited. Yeah, so you create it. That's the trust. Yeah, you create it. That's the trust, that's it. You create it, even if it looks like oh, I cannot work with this person. If that's why I said at the beginning, we are all the batteries to charge ourselves. And if I am charging myself with this absolute fearless inner peace, and I know I do not have to depend on you for something to give to me. Yeah, and when we operate from that courage, they are bound to become that magical being. We are limiting ourselves to humans because I am seeing you as a human.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see you as a magical being my love. But I but I still I still need you to bring me my coffee. Yeah, that's beautiful. And I mean that really encompasses it, I guess, in a different level of consciousness, like the type of work that we love to facilitate, which is two sovereign beings exist coexisting together harmoniously without a need to attach. And and when that happens and when we see that actually happen, like transformation is it's it's there's not even a word I think that I can I can put on it to describe what I see, but that freedom, like you said, finally free. It's this non-attachment. I have the autonomous ability now to just be me, and we can celebrate each other on this journey. And so the needs, quote unquote needs that we used to have have kind of drifted away more so, and then that allows for more peace and more harm harmony. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah, an unconditional love that happens then, because here in small cap small letters love, we define love as an act of service, an act of thinking or time or whatever that is small letters love. But when you truly operate from this fearless inner peace and you're able to see that two sovereign beings, the unconditional love and joy, that love in capital letters, right? So, but because we nobody showed us that love, yeah, we tried to fit into this love of doing something, being something, saying something. But when you are truly free, most of the times you must have experienced right. The only fear is because you don't know what lies after. If I become too sovereign, if I become too independent, do you still allow me or do you still want me? But you know, want them, love them, expect from them, but as completely fearless. And that's unconditional love, isn't it? Yeah, well, it's been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

It's been an epic conversation, yeah. Yeah, love diving into this. And I think for a lot of the listeners, um, they probably need to play this again, I reckon, once or twice. Like, I know I want to listen to this again. And for those listeners who maybe want to connect with you or your book or your method, what's the best way that they can do that?

SPEAKER_00 52:06

So I think the best thing is get on to manabraham.com, my website, and uh you can get all the information that you need. And if you want some free trainings and resources, my YouTube channel, Mana Abraham, you get all the trainings out there, all the resources you need, they are there on YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_07 52:23

Awesome. Yeah, and we'll put that all in the show notes anyway. Hey, have all that information in there so people can find you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Thanks so much for the incredible uh conversation and um and taking your time and sharing it with us.

SPEAKER_07 52:37

I'm very grateful for the opportunity to to connect with you like this.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Thank you. Thank you for having me on your show. Thank you.