A Man's Guide To Masculine Containment: The Secret To Safety & Desire

One sharp comment, one quick defence, and the spark can vanish. We open up about the split-second loop that pulls couples from warmth into cold distance—and the quiet skill that pulls you back: masculine containment. Think steady presence under pressure, the kind that hears the message beneath the heat and holds space without flaring up or shutting down. It’s not suppression; it’s structure that lets emotion move without taking the house down.

We trace our own pattern: she carried too much, asked for support with an edge, and met a wall of defensiveness. He heard “not enough,” adrenaline hit, and logic left the room. That cycle made Amy hyper-independent and left Michael convinced he had to justify or disappear. We break down the nervous system mechanics behind that spiral, then show how safety precedes desire and how consistency, boundaries, and calm attention rebuild both. Along the way, we answer a key question—yes, there’s a feminine version too—and share how framing, timing, and clear asks reduce misfires.

You’ll learn simple, body-first tools to stay present when it’s hot: breath that slows the system, posture that signals steadiness, and language that keeps the focus on care instead of blame. We also dig into the deeper work—naming core emotions, surfacing old “not enough” narratives, and building evidence of reliability—so the relationship stops running on threat and starts moving on trust. Expect practical examples, honest reflections, and steps you can try this week to turn conflict into connection.

If you’re ready to replace reactivity with leadership and rekindle desire through safety, listen now—and share it with a partner who wants the same. Then subscribe, leave a review, and tell us your biggest trigger and the tool you’ll practise first.

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Transcript

Welcome Back & Energy Check-In

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Where Michael and Amy are your couples connection coaches. Our mission is to help couples thrive using a conscious and holistic approach. This podcast is for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs, and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Welcome to another episode of Thrive Again, Your Relationship Podcast. I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

And I'm Amy.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

And we are Michael and Amy.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yes, we are.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Alright. Well, welcome listeners. We had a little break from our last podcast, so we're back. So don't don't worry. We've got some juicy content for you today. And um before we get into it though, uh, should we do a check-in love?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Let's do a check-in. Okay. All right, I'll go first. The check-in today is what energy am I bringing in to the space? For me, um I'm bringing in a calm, a relaxed feeling, um and there's purpose behind it. So there's a there's it's it's not just calm and relaxed in terms of wanting to fall asleep, it's calm and relaxed into sinking into uh a state of relaxation with this purpose behind a message today. So um I think it's a really good place to be for me right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Nice, yeah. Great.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

How about for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Thanks for sharing. Uh I'm checking in with this feeling of content, feeling content, feeling um, yeah. I guess for us it's towards the end of the week. So I notice that you know the beginning of the week's usually a bit busier and a bit more um go go go, but uh just noticing the end of the week's feeling a little bit more relaxed and yeah, chilled. So that's how I'm feeling as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Great, with our powers combined. We're very relaxed. But we've we've quit purpose. We've quit caffeine off the coffee anyway, haven't we? We have. Yeah, yeah. We have cups of teas. Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

It's still the same. And a cacao every now and then.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Yep. Cheat. Cool. All right. So today let's get into

Defining Masculine Containment

SPEAKER_03 2:45

it. And yes, I'm home, I'm honing in on a part of the relationship today, or we are that that's really um I believe it is one of the most pivotal parts of a relationship that that collapses, that that collapses, and it happens in seconds. And it's got to do with a term called masculine containment. And masculine containment is something that is often missing in a relationship, and what it basically is, is the man's capacity to hold space without collapsing, disappearing, withdrawing, flaring up. So he can stay in the moment in the heat with presence and with care without collapsing into making it about him. And we're gonna unpack why how that happened in our relationship and what it's like now and what differences we felt from that. And then we're also gonna give you a wonderful free opportunity at the end uh to learn how to up level this area of your partnership.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

I am curious though, sorry, it's a little off topic, but is there such a thing as feminine containment?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yes, there is.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

I was just wondering, is that just a masculine thing that the ma man has to work on, or is that also something that us women can get better at too?

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Yeah, it's definitely something that the feminine can get better at, however, um, in my understanding of polarity and um yeah, just especially um a lot of the reading around male psychology, uh in terms of the a healthy polarity, um, generally speaking, the the masculine is to be the grounded presence and the rock energy within the relationship because the feminine is often um without boundary, um, is often more emotional, right? Because they're naturally more emotional beings, and they are generally more expressive and free in nature. If they were authentic in their own nature, they are generally more free in nature and more expressive, so there's more of a wildness to the feminine, and so containment is structure, containment is the element of structure that is important because without structure, things can become unhinged and the feminine can move into shadow, right? Which is basically um going too far because boundaries are obviously they have massive benefit too, and so the masculine offering containment and boundary, just like

Is There Feminine Containment

SPEAKER_03 5:30

kind of like masculine parenting, um, which is structure, containment, um boundaries, yeah, boundaries, uh, consistency. Um, those kind of things are really, really important. Um, and when we think about um hormones, for men we have consistent um structure in our hormones, right? Like our testosterone just gets pumped out every 60 seconds. Um for women, it's it's all over the place through a the 28-day cycle. So consider the masculine and the feminine in that setting, I'm thinking, right now. Is that yes, we have more capacity, that's more of our natural uh biological function to do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Thank you for explaining.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

That's right. I'm here for you, love.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

I know, you always are.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Alright, well, let's kick it off and let's explore our own relationship and how it used to be. Uh, and I want to ask you a question around when I used to get defensive or I shut down, I want to know, like say you're coming to me with something, and and here's something that I I remember. I just remember you used to ask for support and for me to step up more in certain areas of the house because and it would come with an energy of frustration. What would happen to you when you voice something to me and then I would get defensive or I'd shut down? So let's explore that.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah, so I guess like if I was coming to you with the needing support or help or asking um something of you, and if you got defensive, which used to happen quite a lot, let's be honest, but uh I would essentially probably confirm to myself that I need to do it myself. Like there's no point in um asking because there's there's no there's nothing I can gain from you anyway. There's nothing that you will you will help me with or support me with. So it created more hyper-independence in myself. It created this like um there's no point, I'm better off just doing it myself. Um I can yeah, I I don't need you, essentially. And yeah, independence, um, separation.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Is it that you don't need me or you can't rely on me?

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, probably I couldn't rely on you. But I didn't need you in some of those cases because yeah, I couldn't rely on you. So there was also both. There was both parts of it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Can I rewind a bit?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Because I guess you jumped into the conclusion of what you do once that happens. But what happens in your body instantly when I so you know you're sharing something, and then I just say, Oh, well, what about like how I helped you out here? And oh you got to go away with your friends, and then I just come up with a story, like some level of defensiveness or um something that makes it about me, and I'm the one who always always working, like you're here at home, this is the life you wanted. What happens in your body?

SPEAKER_00 8:41

I just shut down. Yeah, there's just complete shutdown. There's no point. Yeah, it's not I'm not gonna get what I want here. Yeah. So I just completely shut down and close off to you.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Okay. Yep. Is there any sensations that go with that?

SPEAKER_00 8:56

So long ago, it's hard to remember. I I um I probably wasn't very conscious of it, so I didn't really know. I just probably get yeah, cranky and um I don't know what's happening in my body. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Yep. Okay. Yeah. And what did you

When Defensiveness Breaks Trust

SPEAKER_03 9:15

actually need from me in those moments?

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah, I guess I just needed you to hear me. Um, I guess I needed support and uh understanding at the time that you were there, that you're not gonna run away. Um, yeah, that that I can actually trust you to be there in those moments and get the support that I needed that I was looking for.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Okay. And when I stay grounded now, what what changed for you? What happens for you?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

So, like if I bring something up now to you that uh hasn't, you know, that I need support with or that I'm asking, um, yeah, it's just met with presence, it's met with um ability to hear me, and then I can I can soften, I can like let go of that control that I used to um yeah, I guess grapple with a lot in the early parts of our relationship. It creates more safety ultimately.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Yeah, that's helpful.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah, it's yeah, it's a massive part, and I guess it's something that until we did this work we didn't realise how much impact it has in our relationship and our connection. You know, like it used to deeply the main thing that caused us to disconnect is not is each other, not just you, but not being able to hear each other, not being able to actually drop into each other's worlds for a moment to see what pain that they're in and how we can support them, because we were all um obviously so stuck in our own worlds and our own lives and defensiveness was our our way because we needed to kind of survive, you know, in ourself. We're just in our own survival instincts.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Do you think that it had a bit to do with our uh our own energy and how we weren't that we weren't prioritizing self-care or our uh or processing our own emotions?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Oh, there's a whole bunch of reasons, yeah. Absolutely. That part played a massive part. Um yeah, I think that there was this belief in when you became a mother that nothing else is more important than your job of being a mum. You you give everything to the children, uh including your own, you know. Your soul. Exactly. Your own sanity, essentially. But um yeah, obviously having those opportunities to have outlets elsewhere is is really healthy to help that whole regulation.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Yep. Alright. I want to maybe pivot over to me, and then I can sort of maybe talk about what happened to me when you came at me with things, because I think there's a there's a part in this that is really important for everyone to to hear, and that is that is often the energy that comes in when somebody's got the frustration. And so what I remember is when you used to come to me, let's just say I finish a set of shifts and then I come home, um there would there would be often this level of um maybe joy when I'd come home and and sort of like relief maybe in you, and I'd see that, and then probably after the second day, I think that's normally second or third day, it's normally when all the stuff come to the surface. I remember, and I remember sometimes like you'd come to me and there would be this energy of frustration, and it was from you seemingly having to shoulder the weight of the household, right, and thinking about all the bits and pieces and everything else, and because it had the energy of frustration, I guess. How I processed that the story that was running around in my head was that I'm not enough, I'm not doing it well enough, I'm failing at this. Um, I can never be enough, I can't do it right, I can never do it to your standard. Um, I can't meet the mark, the goalposts keep changing, and I can never keep up. That that would that's the story that was running through my head. So when you come in with the heat, then that would almost confirm the fear in my psyche, right? The fear is that I'm not

Inside His Story: Not Enough

SPEAKER_03 13:40

enough. So there's already a clue of an unprocessed emotion, um, perhaps a narrative that had been running through my head since I was a kid. Um but in the moment it's screaming at me, like it's screaming at me when you're coming at you're coming at me with really a just a a desire for change, right? And just a a desire for me to sit and listen and hear you out, but within 0.06 of a second, I'm already at that point of I'm not doing it well enough. So that's what was happening for me, and what I was actually afraid of in those moments is exposure, like you seeing that I'm a failure. So what do I do? I defend myself, right? I I I kind of like I deflect it or I give reasons, I justify it, I um or I just shut down completely and walk away and yeah, ultimately make up the story that I will I'm I'm never heard, I'm never seen either. Right? I'm the one who's working hard and blah blah blah. So yeah, that's kind of what was happening for me.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yeah, it's such a cycle that we see in many relationships that we work with, you know. This real um I I feel like it's uh two individuals, you know, is stuck in their own narratives and stories and beliefs and patterns from their childhood, their past, um, which play out in the relationship and keeps us stuck. Yeah, it really keeps us stuck and disconnected. So um, yeah, so common.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Yeah, so let's talk about what the heat actually is, right? Because um you know the feminine comes in with heat at times, sometimes it's completely untethered, it's it's um loose and it's wild. Um, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes we interpret it that way as well, us men. So let's talk about what a woman's intensity is.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_03 15:45

So, as in your intensity when you're coming in, is it your intention to attack me?

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Sometimes. Depends if I'm annoyed with you or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it is, because obviously, if we're I don't know, uh if I'm annoyed with you or um there's pr evidence that I'm found that you haven't been, I guess, stepping up or doing what I, you know, have asked or needing the support that I'm I'm craving, then I I potentially will attack you.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Yep, beautiful. So the attack then, if you're coming in deliberately to attack, then what's the success rate of us coming to a resolution? Zero. Okay. Yeah. So uh key point listeners, right? Key point. Yeah. So check the energy before you come in, is the first part of this, you know, of this podcast, right? And and we do have a process that we where you teach couples. If you want that, let us know. Um, we can send it to you. We have a free resource. Uh however, if you're coming in in a way that is it's preempting that you need a conversation with me, right? That's important to you, and you've checked your energy, you're still frustrated underneath, but you're considering your words. What chance do we have of having some sort of a resolution? Is it better?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah, of course. Uh yeah, absolutely. And that's I was like, there's there's also the part that, yeah, we talk about the masculine containment and being grounded and steady, but I feel like it's important to remember that there's two two people here, there's two roles in this dance, and not just one person can always hold it, you know. Uh it's only fair that that it's important to frame the conversation or to be mindful of how you're delivering the message, um, so it doesn't feel like an attack. Yeah. 100%. But yeah, often obviously as women we are emotional, and sometimes the way that we say things can come across as an attack, but it's not, you know, it's just that there is probably so much built up and pent up that it doesn't really matter which way sometimes it's delivered, it can feel like a lot for a man. I get that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Alright, so I'll read out a bit of a cycle as to how something typically goes down, and maybe the listeners you're listening in, maybe you're familiar with this. So let's imagine

The Cycle: Heat, Threat, Shutdown

SPEAKER_03 18:20

she's come in and she's there's there's heightened emotion, there's frustration underneath. It's not an attack, but she's coming in with some heat. The male nervous system often interprets this as a threat. Then when he reacts, which is often defensiveness, withdrawal, shut down, or a flare-up, then she feels unsafe. When she feels unsafe, then she either escalates or in your case you shut down. Sometimes you escalate first and then you shut down. I remember that. Yeah. And then the cycle just continually repeats.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

But here's a key point is that her nervous system is actually looking for what? What do you think that your nervous system is actually looking for in those moments?

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Calm, steadiness, groundedness to help me regulate better.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Mmm. Okay. So you don't need us to be like perfect AI robots. You you need us to just be steady, calm, and grounded.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

And just remembering that it's not about you.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

It's not actually about you. And that's where the the problems can start as well. That we we the the well, whatever person, to be honest, can drop into the story that again, like you used to say, that I'm not good enough, I've done it wrong again. So it's a natural instinct to get defensive.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Yep. Cool. Thank you. Alright. So when I get triggered um because I feel like I'm being attacked, then there's something that happens in my body, and my body ends up experiencing an instantaneous move of it's like it's like all the energy moves into supercharge mode. It's it's like I feel the adrenaline going through my body, and I feel like some hairs pricking up at the back of my neck, and something changes in me. And I only notice this now, but before I didn't. I thought that that was all me. That's just me, the whole thing. But it's not, it's actually an activation that happens in the nervous system, um, and it's unconscious until we make it conscious, and that's why, like a lot of the work that I do with men is around um awareness of the emotional uh body, like emotional awareness within self, so that we can actually distinguish what's happening in the moment a little bit better. Right. So that then triggers off a need to defend myself because that's what we're doing, that's what what's being activated. Adrenaline causes activation in the body um to defend itself, it sees you as a threat. So that's sort of just you know, I want to I guess on a neurological, you know, side of things, that's sort of what's happening. But then I'm dysregulated. When I'm dysregulated, that leads to inconsistency.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, because there's no logic, right? You your thinking part of the brain shuts down, and there's no logical thinking or being ability to to reason or be consistent.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Yep. Yeah. And that inconsistency leads to a loss of safety because you feel unsafe now, right? Now that we've got a loss of safety in the medium term, that equals a loss of. Desire because I remember like you know, you would just stay in your own lane after that, and I wouldn't like we'd we wouldn't even barely brush shoulders, we'd just stick in our roles, we'll just head down, we'll sort the kids out, we'll focus on them, because at least that gives us something to you know to to look at, or we'd avoid each other. So the loss of desire ends up becoming the result of that dysregulation that happened in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think um, yeah, I I for me personally, I would just like I mentioned earlier, I just become hyper-independent, I didn't need you, I can just do this on my own, um, and I would control and I would micromanage and I would just drop into I guess the masculine doing myself because

Safety First, Desire Follows

SPEAKER_00 22:50

I couldn't rely on you to to be there for me. Yeah, hence I guess the trust was breached ultimately underneath all of that.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Yeah. Alright, so that's the cataclysm, that's what happens, right? You can see how this cascades really quickly. So I want to speak about masculine containment and what it actually looks like. Some people think that the word like containment itself means suppression, like it means just shut down those emotions, lock them away, throw away the key, and just disregard yourself. Whereas actually that's not meaning that at all. Containment is is still feeling everything but not exploding and not collapsing. So can you be present? Can you even tune in to what matters for her? Can you be attentive in those moments and be present with her without reverting back and being kind of like a slave to your autonomic nervous system, right? Which is calling you in, but can you override that system in the moment so that you can honour her so that we can establish safety, right? And then when we have safety, we have desire. So we can see how the cascade of desire can actually be extinguished over years and years and years, right? So if you're listening to this and you've been in a relationship for fifteen years plus, um and you haven't really had this process down pat, then it's likely that the desire has faded. Right? And speaking from experience in our relationship, I'm very confident to say that for us or for me, um, my desire has um increased so much with you because of because uh of your respect for me that had that comes through. But you've only started to really respect me when I've stood in this grounded masculine presence. That's that's what I've sensed.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah, it's because when you can hold the space for me, when I bring something maybe emotional to you, then it allows me to soften. It it it shows my nervous system evidence that it's okay, I'm safe. Because if you're if that i is alive and and there and present, it takes time to build this. It's not something that's just um you know, you you hold the space to me once and then magically it happens. But it's just this over time, you're there to to soothe me, to ground me, to calm me, to notice that to to really uh help me feel heard and seen, then I can uh ultimately let go and I can surrender more. And yeah, and then I guess the desire comes from knowing that there's nothing to protect myself from anymore.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Yeah. Cool, because because I mean you you translate this to you know, maybe what it was like in hunter-gatherer days. Um the the last thing that that you would need as a woman within the village is to have to protect and defend yourself continually. Like you would need to have trust in the men to provide and protect. And if there's evidence that I can't protect, then you're going to have to do it yourself. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's this all carries over from um from you know way back when as well. So we've got these programs that have been running for centuries and centuries as well.

What Containment Looks Like

SPEAKER_00 26:30

So I'd like to know your side, like what did you have to learn internally to be able to stay there in the heat? I guess when I'm bringing up some stuff that potentially could be triggering or yeah, hard for you to hear.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah, firstly, I had to learn about my own emotions, so I had to um learn about what I was feeling and be able to name that and not just name the the the emotion, but name where it sits in my body, um, get familiar with it, know because when I get to know that part of me, then I get to watch it as it comes up. So if we don't know a lot of men, they don't really know anything other than anger, and anger is typically not really a technically like a primary emotion. Um, there's normally like something underneath that, like a like a sadness or um you know, like a shame or something like that. But anger is the surface level um reaction that we see or frustration. So so firstly, getting to know um emotions in general. Um secondly, I needed to understand um and process uh childhood um childhood wounds, right? Things that happen to me that cause me to believe that I'm not good enough. Because if I don't process that, then in those moments, that confirmation is going to be fierce for me. When you bring something up, it's gonna be really, really like strong in my nervous system because my nervous system doesn't want to experience what I experienced back then. So um, so that's that's also part of it. And thirdly, probably the biggest thing that I I teach men is all around um regulating your own nervous system, not just teaching your nervous system over time, uh, as in just doing nervous system activation exercises, um, de-stressing, things like that, but in real time, either mimicking or practicing, bringing yourself back to calm when you're feeling the heat and intensity. So it's it's like this repetitive process that I I had to practice and train myself. It's not difficult. This stuff isn't difficult, but it needs to be taught or shown. Or yeah, I've I've been I've read a lot of books, um, you know, and I practiced in our office and in in the shed um for a long time doing particular breath work and um practices and also yeah, just self-awareness.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

I think I must say that I must have been a good uh problem for you to practice on.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

You were the perfect problem for me. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

The scenario where you had plenty of practice to stay grounded, I know.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

It's like game day, you know, like at footy or something like that, or you get to the grand final and but you've been doing all the training in the background and you bring something up and you either win or you lose. And um and I I kind of found like what I found was that even though I was practicing this stuff, um, I didn't get it right. I lost a few grand finals, but but then eventually we won the flag. And then once you've won a premiership, then it just gets easier because you just know what is needed in those moments.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yeah, I think it's important to mention that it this is um goes both ways, you know. I had to learn this too. Like when um, you know, when Michael brought or brings things up to me as well that that can be hard for me to hear, maybe that I haven't shown up in the relationship that I've done to hurt him or uh haven't spoken in the nicest way for

Training The Nervous System

SPEAKER_00 30:05

whatever reasons. Yeah, I I I also have to practice this ability to stay present and stay um with you without escalating or becoming defensive too. So it goes both ways for this practice, this nervous system regulation stuff, and um staying in the heat is not that easy, but it is definitely um, yeah, something can be learned.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Yeah, absolutely. All right, perfect. So actually, you want to really bridge across to an offering. Uh, and if you're a man and you're listening to this, and you look back and it's almost like you can look back in time and go, why did I turn up like that? Why did I react again? And there's like this regret, and I like I still shut down, I still withdrew, or I still fired up again. Then that's why I've created an event that is free and it's an offering for any man to jump on, it's online, so you can access it from anywhere, and it's called the man's guide to stop reacting and start leading in your relationship. And why we're actually why I'm actually running this is so that you can unpack why you react, you can learn some nervous system regulation tools, you can map your own relational cycle as well, and learn just a few practical tools to help interrupt this process so you guys can move towards safety, and then safety, as we know, leads to desire. And if you're interested in that, I'm running this free event, it's gonna be epic. Like, I'm I'm really looking forward to actually facilitating this, and I'm hoping there's gonna be a few men there, and I'm sure there will be. Um, it is on Thursday, the 12th of March at 7 p.m. Queensland time, and uh, you'll need to jump on our website on work with us, and then there's events, and you'll see it there, and you'll need to just sign up to that.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Awesome. Yeah, I definitely think it's well worth it. Uh, we hear a lot of couples who struggle with this a lot, and if you can't hold her emotion, if you can't hold your own. So, just one to remember to try and uh yeah, practice and get better at, and some of those tools that you'll be sharing will be definitely very valuable for anyone who comes along. So, thank you very much for listening and thanks for sharing your wisdom, babe.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Hey, likewise. All right, we'll catch you guys on the next podcast.