The Real Purpose Of A Relationship: Becoming Your Authentic Self Together

What if the version of you your partner loves is only a mask you built to keep the peace? We pull back the curtain on authenticity in relationships and talk candidly about the armour we wore, the shame that sat under our reactivity, and the exact practices that helped us trade fake harmony for mature love. This is a grounded, practical look at what it takes to be fully seen without turning your partner into your sole emotional regulator.

We start with the real cost of people-pleasing and control, then unpack why your nervous system decides the tone long before your mouth opens. From there, we share a simple nervous-system-first approach to conflict: notice the first ten seconds after a trigger, translate the surge into the feeling underneath, and speak from that truth rather than the polished defence. You’ll hear how we use weekly check-ins, clean requests, and honest reflection to stay connected even when the conversation gets hot. We also explore shadow work in plain language: how your partner becomes a mirror for exiled parts of you, and how naming the story “I’m failing” can shift an argument into a moment of healing.

For anyone who feels lost in their relationship, we offer a concrete starting point: a one-month self-abandonment log to reveal patterns, plus scripts for setting boundaries without blame. We talk about men’s work, why support networks matter, and how to avoid turning your relationship into a parent-child dynamic. This is not theory—we map the messy middle where authenticity creates short-term tension and long-term safety, and why suppressed emotions eventually show up in your body.

If you’re ready to swap performance for presence, hit play and join us. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review with the one brave sentence you’re committed to saying this week.

Thankyou for listening, if you liked it, please remember to subscribe.

Join our Private "Thriving relationships - Deepening connection to self and others" community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1107209283451758/

Website: https://michaelandamy.com.au/

Join our free 7 day relationship challenge: https://michaelandamy.com.au/free-relationship-challenge

If you would like to book in a private discovery call with us, here is the link: https://michaelandamy.com.au/call

Transcript

Welcome And Why Authenticity

SPEAKER_04 0:09

We're Michael and Amy, your couples connection coaches. Our mission is to help couples thrive using a conscious and holistic approach. This podcast is for couples and singles who want to unlock their relationship potential and reconnect on a deeper, more meaningful soul level. We share insights, client breakthroughs, and personal stories to help move your relationship from surviving to thriving. Welcome everyone to another episode of Thrive Again, your relationship podcast. Michael and I are here in the office on a rainy, rainy day. But um we would love to share a topic that we naturally have found being a thread in our relationship as we've gone through our journey, and we now recognize in other couples the importance of this particular topic and how sometimes we actually aren't this. Sounds like I'm speaking in script, doesn't it? So my message today is all about authenticity. And I wanted to bring this topic um and to this podcast to speak more into authenticity because I think for a little while I didn't quite understand or grasp the the true concept of what that meant. And now as we help more and more couples, I see the importance and the relevance of how a thriving, connected, loving relationship is two people helping them, helping each other to become their most authentic selves. And I feel like that's been our journey too. So yeah, I just wanted to bring this one into the podcast space and share it with our listeners and uh and maybe open up the topic a little bit more deeply. Thanks both.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yep, I'm in.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

You're in. I'm here.

People Pleasing Versus True Harmony

Hot Seat: When I Feel Most Me

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yep, I'm in. And I I guess when you you brought this topic to me, I was thinking, how the heck are we going to invite this into conversation? How are we going to speak about this? What you know, what's what's kind of coming up for me in this, and and what I've realized is that actually this is something that you and I are at that level with in terms of what our relationship is. Like we see it as the crucible, we see it as the boiling pot to help us to step into more authenticity, and there's a process in which that happens, right? Because relationships can do the opposite, and this is the key point I think that we'll get into is often people find in relationship they end up pleasing or controlling or manipulating in order to keep that attachment at all costs, to keep the comfort there, to keep the closeness there, but it's at the expense of their own authentic expression. And so, yes, they may temporarily be able to keep some level of quote unquote harmony, but it's not real harmony in my judgment, only because we've we've been in that phase, like that that phase is is a hard road, and I would say most couples get stuck in there, right? It's it's all around um um changing who I am in order to keep us okay. But we're striving for greatness, we're striving for love, we're striving for connection, and I believe that if we're not turning up authentically in ourselves in the relationship, then basically what we're doing is we're building a mask or a facade for our partner to fall in love with, and that's not really satisfying for me. Is that hey, can you be in love with this strong guy that I'm trying to be? And it just it's not right, it doesn't sit right. You don't get to experience the truth of me. In fact, you'll probably see leaky moments where I'm far from strong. So is it about me being strong, or is it actually more about revealing ourselves and and witnessing each other in in a beautiful way?

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Yeah, 100%. So I thought that we would um maybe do like a little interview style, babe. I've got some questions here because this was my idea. So I'll put you in the hot seat. I'll put you in the hot seat. And we'll can dive into this um maybe on on your from your perspective and also from um our experience together in the relationship. So should we you ready? Yep, all right. Do it. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 4:51

I don't know. This is as authentic as it gets. Yeah, exactly. Because I haven't even seen these questions.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

Okay, so don't think too much. Just just allow what comes through.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Jeez. Alright, let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 5:01

Alright. So when do you feel most like your authentic self in our relationship?

Hiding Vulnerability And The Armor

SPEAKER_01 5:08

When do I feel like my most authentic self in our relationship? I would say that what's coming up for me is I feel that I can be authentic and myself when I notice your softness and your openness and also your willingness to your willingness to to jump into my position, my my thought processes, and yeah, not so much be entrenched in your own thoughts. So so what's coming up for me is actually we had this conversation last week around openness and that being a value of mine that I want to see more of. Like if I had to choose one out of my six, like I said, openness, and because it is so important for me for you to be open to my reality, and we'll probably go over a couple of things, I'm sure, in this podcast where you I didn't feel that you were open, and that actually hampered my authenticity. So, yeah, for me, when you're open and you're willing to see my perspective, that helps me to be me. Um, but also my the the stages in our relationships have evolved, and I think that that's due to my own uncovering and my wounds and my my attachments and my traumas that have caused me to put up protections. So in the big picture of our relationship, it's come about more recently, in terms of like the last five years, versus the previous 15 years in our relationship, where I wasn't I wasn't able to express authentically because I was ultimately shameful about who I was, right? I I just wasn't my self-worth wasn't wasn't at the level where I could reveal my my truth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so what I'm hearing is like there was the times when I like I guess what I'm doing in the moments that allow you to be authentic is when I'm more open, when I'm more receptive to your thoughts and feelings and experiences, and yeah, when I when I am there for you more so than yeah, anything else at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So were there times in our relationship where you felt you had to hide parts of yourself?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

God, this is like a CIA, like, you know, interview. You're gonna chain me down as well. No.

SPEAKER_04 7:49

So were there times in our relationship where you felt you had to hide? Oh man, yes, of course.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Absolutely. Yeah, big time. I think for a lot of us men, we our biggest fear is being vulnerable, right? Because there's a perception out there that vulnerability equals weakness. And yeah, that was that was my reality. Like I I thought I've got to be tough, I've got to be strong, I've got to show you that I'm not I have no cracks in my armor. So yeah, there was there was definitely times when I had to hide parts of myself that were weak, for sure, that I felt were insecure, especially. Um and yeah, some of those times were definitely a long time ago, but even recently, like there were times when I was trying to hold it together, you know, like I didn't want to reveal to you worries that I had, concerns because I didn't want to burden you um with what I was experiencing, thinking that it's gonna add another load onto you and what you're going through.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

So you're actually afraid of sharing those things because you are worried about my response, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, yeah, and also like worrying that that's going to be a big burden for you. Um but what maybe what I've learned from that is that as long as I'm not dumping shit on you, right, as long as I'm not totally loading you up every day with my worries and my concerns, um, actually it's probably beneficial for me to reveal what's truthfully going on to me consistently with me, consistently, not all the time, but just you know, maybe in a check-in or you know, in moments when we connect and ask deeper questions with each other once a week. Yeah, to actually give you an understanding of where I'm at so that you can have more capacity to I don't I think just just the capacity to understand how I'm traveling underneath the the surface.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

Yeah, yeah. What were you afraid might happen if if you showed all of those parts to me?

The Cost Of Masks And Reactivity

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah, that that you would think that I am not good enough, that I'm not strong enough, that I'm yeah, because of that I'm not attractive enough, um, and ultimately thinking that you probably deserve someone that's better than that. Yeah, so it's it's probably um a a protective mechanism that I put in place because I worried, I I was scared that that maybe I'm not good enough for you at times.

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Yeah, interesting, hey. And like and I I'm thinking about the audience and and the women out there listening to that and um how it kind of hits your heart, you know, if your partner doesn't want to share things because they're worried about those sorts of things, it's actually, you know, it's it's quite touching, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah, but what you'd see in me because of that was probably a man who had little words but would still have this energy of frustration underneath, right? Like, and that might be reactive, I might have I might be reactive, I might be short with you, um, but it would be a mystery. You'd just see this reactive guy. But underneath, I'm just trying to keep the guard up, I'm trying to keep the armor up because I think that it's going to protect me from weakness, from being perceived as weak. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

Yeah, and imagine it's exhausting, right? Like after all those years of holding holding that guard and protection up, how exhausting that can be in relationships when we're not able to really drop it and be our authentic true selves, you know, and I I think it's obviously um common. I I'm not um I'm not immune to this either. You know, it's also happens to me too. But yeah, it's just interesting, it's all about you then.

Mirrors, Shadows And Triggers

SPEAKER_01 11:52

What what's also interesting that I've found in this little part is that yes, it's helpful for you to be there for me and for me to open up to you in ways that maybe you haven't seen before, so that you can get an understanding of what's really happening for me. But I think for the men listening, it's also really I think it's really important to know that part of this journey for me has also been about surrounding myself with with men that are authentic as well, and a support network for me, so that I don't need to lean on you for that, right? Because it's not actually healthy for me to continuously lean on you if I'm out of alignment, for example. It's good for me to share where I'm at, but not to lean on you so that I can be okay. That's that's probably not okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

So it's like the mother energy, like you know, like I can fix you or uh yeah, yeah, yeah. You rely on me too much.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah, because most men, like if they experience tension or um, yeah, a lot of um you know unease internally, they'll either flare up, shut down, disappear. Um, and and by understanding that pattern, I've been able to kind of know what I need, like what I need in this circumstance, and it shouldn't always be you, right? Because that's different. There's a total difference between me being authentic and me needing to regulate my nervous system, and that's and I lean on you for that. That's different.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Spot on. Yeah. So okay, yeah, that makes sense. But like I'd love to know how has our relationship forced you to grow into a more authentic version of yourself.

Nervous System First, Words Second

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Well, if if I didn't have you, then I wouldn't know my shadows. So I would just go around being me as I think is good enough or healthy enough. And you know, that's okay if you just want to be on your on your own, right? Or you just want to be in a relationship for a short period of time and then change to another one. But if you want a long-term relationship where you can move into the mature love phase, then your partner becomes a mirror if you accept it. Because if you don't accept that your partner's a mirror, not all the time, but just bigger picture, just having a look, hey, you know, everything that triggers me about you is probably highlighting something that is relevant for me in terms of like a wound there or something that is yeah, something that's really triggering for me is often a key to me. It's a key to open if I choose to step through that. What is it that I'm looking to protect here within myself? Yeah, what's what's kind of like um what am I what have I banished back to the doldrums of my subconscious mind in terms of like, you know, Carl Jung's teaching with the Yeah, with the the the masculine psyche and um and understanding like how we we repress things back to back to our subconscious, back to the deeper realms because we don't we're not proud of that part of us. So yeah, it's um it's been a journey of you being a mirror for me and reflecting back where I'm not free yet.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

So tell me what what is one of those areas? So what's a trigger in our relationship that has actually helped you to understand yourself better?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Uh the first one that comes to mind is probably not trusting myself. So not not trusting my ability and my my superpower and how that comes up as a mirror is that sometimes I'll collapse into you know feeling like a failure, you know, feeling like I'm useless, not good enough in the world. And and in a way, like when when you show me something that's not right in our world, like for example, I don't know, something's not working properly, and you've brought it up a couple of times, you might bring it up in a short way. It triggers me because I'm just like, far out, do you have to really what's happening for me is it's not, oh, can you please fix this thing? How I perceive it is I can't get it right, I'm not doing it right, I'm not good enough, right? So that then highlights my wound of I'm not good enough, right? Which is probably a program that's brought up from school, you know, or or parents or some sort of subconscious messaging earlier on. And I'm not able to see that unless you're revealing it to me, and then I and then I accept that as an opportunity to dive into it. So that's I mean, that's one example, yeah, for sure.

Boundaries, Support Networks And Men’s Work

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's probably a lot more, hey, like there's lots lots of different little things that sometimes we get triggered by and realizing that that's our own shadow that hasn't been looked at, or you know, uh an opportunity for growth. And I think you know, sometimes conflict can be growth, you know, things that trigger each other can be an opportunity to get better and and to to to show us how to be more authentic, how to express that part of us that's maybe being triggered in a healthy way.

Practical First Steps To Regain Self

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Yeah, definitely. And I I think that's what we help a lot of couples with, you know, on on our path because we help them to structure a way of communicating that is helpful for this, so that we can get to the bottom of the reactivity that is all that you see on the surface, like you know, like most of us experience frustration in relationships, so that's the primary emotion that you would see. It's just frustration, grittiness, like you know, being short with someone, and but really underneath it, is there something else that's happening there? Yeah, is there a um a powerlessness that's really there? Yeah, is there shame, you know, that's that's lingering underneath that reactivity? Like I really don't love myself. Is that underneath that? Um, is it that I'm scared to be vulnerable? So this is my show, this is my front. Yeah, so the partner only gets to see the reactivity, and so they're not ultimately getting to see the authenticity. Right? Like like if I was to say, if I'm to collapse into you know my pattern when you question that something's not right, then yeah, of course, there's for me, I could just react to tell you that you're a bitch and you're just a nager, and you just leave me alone. But what if you were to understand that actually I really feel like I'm failing right now? Like I feel like I'm not enough for for you and and for us and for this family, and actually there's a deeper you know issue going on here, and it's not so that you can rescue me, but it's it's rather so you can understand perhaps what's needed, and it could just be like a pep talk or a a pick-me-up or a um, hey, just a reminder around like how powerful I actually am, or something like that could be a way healthier conversation than yeah, you're just an arsehole.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, spot on. Yeah, interesting. So I've got one um, I think in a bigger picture, but do you think most people enter relationships being their authentic selves or trying to be the version they think their partners want?

SPEAKER_01 19:27

100% the second one. Yeah, yeah, in just about every relationship, and if you think about it in your first date, yeah, like you're nervous, you're thinking about, oh my god, am I, you know, is this person gonna be um you know, they're gonna be okay with me, right? So sometimes that can be the case. For those who are really secure in themselves, it's more like an interview, right? It's kind of like, oh yeah, I wonder if they're gonna be okay, and or they're gonna be a crazy psychopath. But ultimately, if you have a any kind of insecurity in yourself, which everyone does, then there's going to be a part of you that's gonna turn up to try to be the person that you think they want you to be.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Right? So someone who's successful, someone who What was it for you?

SPEAKER_04 20:12

What was when do you remember our first dates or first time together? What what kind of mask do you think you were wearing? Because I can I can think of mine.

Programme Invitation And Closing

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think for me. Yeah, my mask was was one that had strength, you know, so that there was this like this this stoicism. Um, but there was also a mask of yeah, I think just I'm kind of I'm kind of stuck on this because I'm just trying to remember back those days, babe. Yeah, I'm actually struggling to remember a bit about what I turned up as. But I think definitely someone who has got it together, someone who's successful, um, whatever the hell that means, and whatever I thought that that meant back then. Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, I remember I remember trying to impress you because I had the facade or the the the image of like the cool girl, you know? Like I didn't want to be like too into you because then it would just seem like I was too much. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, like because I guess I was skydiving at the time as well, and I used to think I was pretty cool back then. So I had the facade of like, yeah, you know, yeah, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Do you want it? Do you not want it? I'm I'm cool, I'm cool with whatever. Yeah, yeah. So it was like a protection as well. But when I look at that a bit further, I realised that I'd been hurt in previous relationships too. So maybe that was like my unconscious protection of trying not to to, you know, get hurt again and and give too much in those times. So I had to pull back and my cool girl was my my cover for that. Yeah. But anyway. This is about you, not me. No, it's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

It's good to hear that. Like yeah, I can sort of definitely resonate with like I think I remember that, you know, being part of your protection as well.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, spot on. I think um there's this is like a a pretty obvious one, but I don't has has there been moments where authenticity created tension between us?

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yep, definitely. Yeah. And maybe like some of the listeners can can tune into this too, because this is this is where it can either go really well or can go really badly. Because trust can be eroded in an instant, and that then teaches your nervous system that it's not okay for me to open up, it's not okay for me to be me. And so we end up creating a relationship that's that's based on facades and masks. And I walk around and I see a lot of these relationships, you know. I see on social media, um, you know, there's a lot of people that are suffering in their relationship, and and we know firsthand, and we see the image that's put out there, and it's it's not it, right? But I think in terms of a an example, what helped us move through it, I suppose.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

Like, yes, the yeah, there was moments where uh it created tension, but how did how can you give examples or or some ways that people can move through that or we move through that?

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yeah, yeah. First thing you need to understand your nervous system and have a total map of internally there's a trigger that happens, and then immediately after the trigger, there's a nervous system response. And if you don't, if you haven't really touched base with that initial nervous system reaction that happens internally, right, which is hairs flaring up at the back of the neck, which is you know, maybe heart racing, stomach churning, um, any kind of like you've got your own unique blueprint of what happens in terms of your reaction. If you don't know that, then you're easily within the next 10 to 20 seconds going to communicate from that place of reactivity. So understanding your nervous system is the first thing. Second thing is having a level of maturity to be able to communicate under tension. Because if you if you can't do that, like I if you can't walk away from the conversation first and say, you know what, this is triggering me, then are you good enough to stay? Do you have the capacity to stay in the tension while communicating in a conscious way? And if you don't, which a lot of people don't, it's a learnable, it's totally teachable. And and this is what I teach a lot of men. I'm actually running a workshop on this next week. But if you don't have that, then you're going to be a slave to your nervous system for the rest of your life. And why that matters in this question is because you're effectively shutting down your partner's ability to express if you react, and then I'm also shutting down my ability to express authentically because I'm coming from the tension, I'm coming from the the mask, I'm not coming from the truth of what's underneath.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah, so I would say understand your patterns, your nervous system, get a strategy to communicate consciously, and then you can do it. But until you learn that, if till you have a structure, all you're gonna do is wait for the moment to come up again, you're gonna try the same dance, it's not gonna work, it's gonna fail, and you guys are gonna have more tension, more misunderstanding, and even deeper lack of authenticity in your connection.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

Yeah, beautiful. So I think this is maybe one of the last questions I have for you, babe. So I I guess how have I been able to support you to step more into your own authenticity in our relationship?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

By doing the work yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

Anything else? Yeah. Oh, sorry, I thought you were.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Yeah, I think um I think when I see you turning up for me as well in an authentic way, and we're courageous enough to do that dance together. We're courageous courageous enough to reveal our scarcity patterns and the times when we're not at our best um and owning that, then we give permission to the other to do the same. So when I see you stepping into that, even though it hurts, even though it brings tears, even though it's hard to get rid of the cool girl at times and and knock her to the side and then come through with your truth, because it's not pretty, right? It's it's it can be ugly at times for both of us, then the more it gives me permission to kind of like step more into this too, and then what does that do for us?

SPEAKER_04 27:06

Yeah, creates deeper growth and connection, hmm?

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Yeah, yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Beautiful. Yeah, I think um for me to help me be more authentic, how you've supported me with that is yeah, I guess really encouraging it. Like I noticed like the encouragement you've given in that area and the permission and the space for that. You know, you're always so good with being able to allow go and do that thing. Go and do that thing. If that's what your heart's calling for, do it. Like, yeah, you've never shut me down, you've never told me no. Yeah, that encouragement's been a big part of um the big picture as well. Yeah, spot on. I think my final question though, before I'd love to ask you, which I think is maybe helpful for the audience if someone listening feels like they've lost themselves in their relationship, what's the first step to help them to bring back their authenticity?

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah. Yep. So the the first thing that I'd I'd actually suggest to people is to note the moments when you forgo yourself and write them down. Like write them down in a journal. Take a log of a month, of every moment, put a time date, you know, when it happened, and just journal it down when you've given yourself up because you were, I don't know, scared of how you're perceived. Um, maybe you're scared of it turning into conflict. Um and every time that it happens, log it. That's the first step. What to do with that is you'll then see that there's a pattern at play here. So your mind will see that there's a pattern and this is probably not okay. Um, and then from there, perhaps get some guidance in terms of how you can communicate better in those moments so that you can stay true to yourself. And then if it collapses into conflict, or if you can't set a healthy boundary, for example, right, because your partner's actually, you know, stepping through that boundary in that particular circumstance, then those harder conversations have to happen. And if they can't accept your boundary, if they can't accept your wants and your desires, and that's super consistent, then you either need to get some help from people who can guide this, or you ask the big question, like, what are we actually doing in this relationship? Because the truth is, and Gabriel Marty did a lot of work and research around this, when we sacrifice authenticity to keep attachment, the body pays the price. Suppressed emotions don't disappear, they show up in the nervous system and actually in the immune system. So we know now that this actually affects the immune system and creates immune system dysfunction in the long term. So if you really care about yourself and your health, then you would be practicing this muscle.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Beautiful, yeah, such a powerful thing to see couples step into that we coach, you know, being able to be more authentic and all of the parts of themselves are welcome, not just the one part that they, you know, show at the front. So um we help couples work through that. We've worked through that ourselves, and I just wanted to drop in here that our next reconnected union, which really does help couples unpack their patterns and their ways that they maybe have shut down their authenticity in relation to you know to continue a relationship in a very unhealthy way, then come and see um or come and join us for our 12-week programme that we've created. Uh, and as I said, it starts on the 6th of May, and it's from as little as$125 a week investment to really deepen your connection, see all of the shadows, all the dark spots, and and get support really deeply from Michael and I to really unpack and help guide this connection back to true love and true connection.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah, and I just want to say that the May one is actually filling up already. So we only have a maximum of five couples, but I think from that point on it's probably going to be a maximum of seven or eight couples because it is getting quite popular. So we're gonna max this one out at five still. So if you are just if you've been thinking about it, uh maybe the authenticity is really squashed on the head at the moment, and you'd love to just really step into that next level of mature love, then yeah, just consider it because we're seeing so many amazing breakthroughs within about two or three weeks. Like we're seeing massive changes in the connections with relationships that are kind of in roommate energy or disconnected and and creating distance between each other when they they shouldn't be, right? Because all they need to do is just have a look underneath the layer and we help to just pull that apart safely.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Beautiful. Thanks so much for listening, everyone.