SEG 3 of 3 - Digital Health - Striking a Balance: Navigating Emotional Health in the Digital Age

Discover the keys to preserving your emotional health in a world where screens often dominate our landscape. We'll guide you through the labyrinth of technology's influence on our lives, providing insights into maintaining authentic connections in an era where artificial intelligence and virtual reality play an ever-increasing role. Get ready to confront the challenging reality of tech's grip on our emotional well-being, as we unpack the consequences of our digital dependencies. This episode serves as your compass in navigating the intersection of technology and true human interaction, shedding light on the delicate dance between embracing innovation and nurturing the social skills that define us as individuals.

Amidst the buzz of notifications and the glow of smartphones, we lay out practical strategies for fostering a healthier relationship with our devices. Whether it's the story of tech developers who shield their own children from the products they create or tips for reclaiming family dinner from the clutches of cell phones, you'll gain actionable advice to revitalize your real-world relationships. Join us as we chart a course towards a balanced digital diet, emphasizing the significance of setting boundaries and prioritizing face-to-face connections. Tune in for a thought-provoking journey that equips you with the tools to ensure technology remains your servant, not your master.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Coming Sense Advice for Life, helping with self-awareness, family and relationships in a complex world. Now here's Will Kesley and Tony Patek.

Speaker 2: 0:12

All right, welcome back to the show. Let's chat with Will and Tony. We've explained this before. It wouldn't be let's Chat with Will and Tony if it was just Will.

Speaker 3: 0:20

Or.

Speaker 2: 0:20

Tony or just Tony, because then you can't chat and then I'd be talking to myself.

Speaker 3: 0:25

I don't know, I get pretty good chatting myself sometimes so narcissistic.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Right, it is bad. I'm happy you're talking to myself. It's actually a problem. Now this is what we're talking about with technology. We're getting so used to having our own relationships with technology. Now you add AI to that Artificial intelligence and you're going to have no reason to go to school, no reason to talk to anybody, no reason to have an opinion on anything, because it's going to feed whatever opinion you've got. You're not going to get countering opinions, where you can actually grow your opinions and thoughts.

Speaker 2: 0:50

You know it reminds me of that Disney show Wally yeah.

Speaker 3: 0:53

Where the guy. They're in the spaceship in their chairs being fed sodas. Yep, they're floating around and they lose the ability to walk. The first one takes the step out of the chair and it's like oh, you know what? I?

Speaker 2: 1:06

do? What's that movie? I keep beckon selling it and you'd go into a place and they would. It was in the future and they would replace thoughts in your mind and you could live. Do you remember that? I don't remember that.

Speaker 1: 1:17

Yeah, it just slipped me the name of it.

Speaker 2: 1:20

You would get these thoughts in your brain and you could go live in a fantasy land. Yeah, you could live remotely.

Speaker 1: 1:24

Whatever Outside your body you could be anything.

Speaker 2: 1:28

I want to be a doctor who's famous. Next, you know you're this doctor and you live through the whole life of being famous. We're seeing that now. Especially, get these goggles. Now you can put on and they're in 3D and you can lay in your chair and you can go to space and you can have all this fulfillment stuff being fed you through these lenses and you never interact with anybody. Society is going to get really, really weird.

Speaker 3: 1:45

I mean you see it all over the place. You see these different aspects and these different syndromes, the column that have come from this technology world and I'm telling you, at least in my life, the more you did use it only as a tool and use it for what it was, what it's for Use it for emotional fulfillment.

Speaker 3: 2:05

But don't use it. If you're using your phone for emotional fulfillment, we always talk about halt right, Hungry, angry, lonely or tired. If you're one of those states and your reaction is to grab your phone and zone out, you're in a bad spot and you're not going to get happier from it. And you won't get happier from it you actually get worse, that's right.

Speaker 2: 2:22

And the same thing. That halt has to do with all kinds of chemicals. Right, this is what we talk to people that have addictions. It's the same process. And cocaine addiction Well, cocaine is doing the same thing to the brain. The brain goes. I want more of that, and so you go do a. And I don't see anybody that goes and does these kinds of things, that walks away going. I feel so much better about myself.

Speaker 3: 2:37

Yeah, man, I wish I could just do cocaine everyday.

Speaker 2: 2:41

They usually feel way worse about themselves. Same way with these goggles. You put them on, it's like, oh, it's fun, it's kind of entertaining at first, but then it starts to take you down that hole and you can't get off it. And then when you do get off it, you don't feel better about it. You don't walk off going. Man, I'm so happy, I feel better, I feel rich.

Speaker 3: 2:54

I'm so glad I spent eight hours playing Halo, you don't, you don't? You actually feel down, you do. But then the next day you're like, oh, I got to play Halo again because you want that chart.

Speaker 2: 3:04

You're brain saying that, yeah, exactly, you think you're controlling that, but your brain saying wants it and so we think we have control over identity. Well, you really don't. Over time, it still starts influencing what you do. By the way, there's some great studies on that where they would take people and they would have their hands inside these boxes and they would say, like it puts your index finger for yes and your middle finger for no and something else, and you could control what was going on, but what you pushed. So you'd see some on the screen and you'd push these little cues inside these little controllers.

Speaker 2: 3:30

Now, the point of the whole thing isn't the details. It was that people thought they were controlling the game and what they proved was the game was giving influences, that was, telling the brain what to do, and they were pushing the budding, believing they were making the choice and the game was making the choice for them Interesting. But they walked away going I made that choice. They're like nope, the game made that choice for you and they could tell you what fingers you would push down and say you're going to push down and you would map that complete thing out and you'd say, the whole time going I made that decision. I decided to push my ring finger down and they're like nope, because you patterned exactly what we programmed you to put your fingers down to.

Speaker 2: 4:03

Wow, and you thought you were in control. Yeah, you thought you were in control. Yeah, all right. So we got a text in. Okay, great, let me hear it. Yeah, it says great, tony, I love the advice. It scares the snot out of me. Understand, don't be scared. It says good luck. You don't have kids in high school, where they're required, and in junior high school and, oh, elementary school as well, they're required to have technology.

Speaker 3: 4:27

Oh yeah, hey when they get their homework.

Speaker 2: 4:29

That's where they do the reporting. How do you handle that?

Speaker 3: 4:32

You know, my kids are in the same circumstance. I have kids in high school and they're exactly accurate. They come home with their Chromebook and everyone's issued a Chromebook and a lot of their assignments are on there. I say okay, okay, okay, all right, yeah, maybe that's the case, but what are you doing every other out of day outside of that? You know, I've sat down with my kids and worked their mastering physics or whatever on the online and sat down with them and on the internet and we're going through all their physics problems and we're doing the work and we're interacting with each other doing a math problem compared to them scrolling on a YouTube channel mindlessly through videos being entertained.

Speaker 3: 5:11

And I'll tell you there's a huge difference between the two situations from a connectedness. One is actually a learning process. The other one is they're zoned out, they're tripped off. Now the key is if they go from that screen, then to the video game screen, then to the phone screen, back to the video screen, then to bed and then back to the screen at school. That's where you're going to be a huge problem.

Speaker 2: 5:37

So one of the main differences you want to watch for if you go, if you're going to technology or to any of these social media type events, because you're looking for emotional stimuli, that's a key factor.

Speaker 1: 5:47

So other ones involved.

Speaker 2: 5:49

But this is one we can easily all identify. Yep, if I'm bored, so I go to my phone. If I'm anxious, so I go to my phone. If I'm lonely, so I go to my phone.

Speaker 3: 5:57

Tired. Get on my phone.

Speaker 2: 5:58

Right, this is what happens to people that have other addictions. But we see this a lot with opiate use. So, for example, you go to the doctor, you have a back pain. He gives you an opiate. You go home.

Speaker 2: 6:07

The brain loves that candy. It loves that opiate. Candy gives oxytocin, dopamine and stuff to the brain. The brain's like, oh, I'm happy, you feel happy and everything's great. Well, because the brain learns that that chemical makes you feel good and you're only getting it when you have pain. The next time you have pain, the doctor gives it to you again. Now the brain goes hmm, second time, pain means great oxytocin.

Speaker 2: 6:28

So the next thing you know, your brain will produce chronic pain Just to get the, because it knows what's going to get when you get chronic pain and it's real pain. I mean, look the nerve endings that go to your brain go, that's pain. Your brain can create that all day long. So you have pain. You have no pathology, but you have pain because what it's expecting is you're going to go to the doctor now and get an opiate. So if you're on your phone to have emotional fulfillment, it's the same thing and it gets it. It's going to make you want to have more of it. It doesn't care at the end how you feel, it just wanted what it wanted. Yeah, it wanted some emotional stimuli, and that's when you know it gets broken right.

Speaker 2: 7:02

So that's when you want to say, when you get done, you don't feel better about things. Because that's not what it's trying to get from you. It just wants to have some emotional stimuli.

Speaker 3: 7:08

Yeah, I think that's a great judgment of it. I mean, this is now. We've been doing the show. How long a year? Year, yeah, basically a year.

Speaker 3: 7:15

So early on we were doing an episode like this and we talked about giving stuff up. So I decided personally that I give up all my social media apps. So I had to lead them all, and it's been. You know, have you missed them? No, not at all. Not at all. Actually, I haven't missed them at all. And you gained back four hours a day, exactly. I haven't missed them all, but I found myself, you know, at those times where I'm, you know, hungry, angry, lonely, tired. So what do I do now? There's all these other like little, like hobbies and things I do. I talk to my wife more, I talk to my kids, I read to my son at night. You know, I do all these things with that extra time that are actually enriching activities that I wasn't doing before or I was neglecting. I wasn't doing as much of them before and it's just been amazing. It's actually been really good for me personally, that show that you and I did, where we give it up.

Speaker 2: 8:09

Good for you, tones. There you go. Well, interesting thing too. If you had the idea of realizing every moment you're on one of those Facebook things you're making someone else a bunch of money, how do you feel about that? You're giving up your time being sold. You're being sold. How does that feel for you?

Speaker 3: 8:24

I feel oily now, don't you feel geeky?

Speaker 2: 8:26

We have to go home and take a shower, like, let me add, let me add a little stronger opinion and I say this only because it's just something to consider when it comes to schools. Ok, ok, I got teachers that are going to be furious with me when I tell you this A lot of what we're doing with technology is because, well, the technology is going, kids go to learn how to use technology. No, it has to do with being lazy as an instructor, because what I see is, well, all that's on, it's all on the screen, and I can duplicate that and copy. Don't go make copies on paper.

Speaker 1: 8:51

You are the backup. I know I'm the backup.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Now I'm not saying I like I love there's a lot of teachers that are fantastic. But I want teachers to check their six and ask yourself if you're using technology so you can get the job done easier, more convenient, easy way to monitor. I want you to check that and say maybe I had to change that motive.

Speaker 3: 9:12

It can't be about convenience, so that's all I want you to do and, like we always say, right, if you're using the tool for the reason the tool, and it's a more effective method of getting the information out or allowing more people to have access to information, you're probably in a reasonable spot. If you're just doing it because somebody gave you a CAN program, it's like, hey, go learn physics online, I don't have to teach you.

Speaker 2: 9:36

Yeah, it's probably dirty motive. That's what I want you to do is just check your motive. I'm not gonna accuse anybody of anything. I just want to say that it's out there, it exists. We know people struggle with that. Make sure you're not one of those. You made a point earlier about kids doing homework on it and doing some learning from them. Okay, kids in high school look, they gotta learn how to use the tool. They're gonna be in front of that tool the rest of their life. That's just society. That's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about abolishing it. We're talking about learning how to use it and it not use you Correct, and right now we have way too much of it learning how to use you. What we're also talking about is getting it in front of them too early, before the brain formulates how to manage sensory and perceptions and relationships and communications, because what it does it robs the child of the ability to develop those things in a healthy way so they can use those later in life and you don't get those years back.

Speaker 3: 10:22

You know, by the time you're in high school you're not fully developed, you're fairly down the process and you're in a spot where you've kind of learned the difference between some of the things. When you're into early grade school, you know kindergarten and younger and you're just spending that time on there.

Speaker 2: 10:37

Then it's for entertainment or babysitting or what we're concerned about Now. With that being said, my daughter, when this phone stuff's carded, all our kids had flip phones. Remember those?

Speaker 1: 10:47

Yeah, we didn't have smartphones.

Speaker 2: 10:49

My youngest daughter's like well, I gotta have one. Because the teachers we actually went to school and said no, you'll give it to her in printed paper, we want it in 3D. And the teachers were furious with us. Don't you understand what kind of work that makes for me? That's how everything is nowadays. I don't care. You require my child to go to your school. I require you to teach them in ways that are healthy.

Speaker 2: 11:07

Just because it makes it more convenient for you doesn't make it right and so we forced the issue and our daughter got it on paper and some teachers didn't like it and I didn't care. Now, with that being said, there are a lot of well, we talked about the guy from Pinterest, the guy that developed me on Pinterest. Yeah, Pinterest, yeah, He'll tell you that his kids do not get cell phones.

Speaker 3: 11:24

Yeah, he will not let his own children be on Pinterest or have a cell phone for him. He's like cause he knows what he did with it. They know how they program it.

Speaker 2: 11:32

So just keep that in mind. So that's my position on these kind of things, and you guys may have a different one. I would not have my children have any kind of flat screen toy at all. When they start getting to high school, they're gonna have to start learning how to manage a phone and use the phone appropriately, the computer and the PC and the like.

Speaker 2: 11:49

And so it's a good time to develop the proper skills for it, but not let it become a place for fulfillment of boredom and entertainment. There's other ways to do that. So the next question that becomes so when she talks about how do you handle that? That's the decision you gotta make as a parent, when you can flat out just tell the school sorry, put it in printed form, my kids aren't going there.

Speaker 3: 12:07

So tell me this. So now this is gonna be the challenge. Most of us out there have our children and they're probably currently hooked. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:18

So how do you de-hook? Now let me start detoxing.

Speaker 3: 12:20

So where's the?

Speaker 2: 12:20

detox come from. One of the first things we do is first understand parents. The child does not own the phone, they don't have a right to the phone and they will live without a phone.

Speaker 1: 12:30

What I know.

Speaker 3: 12:32

No, don't tell me.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Wait, tito, what do your kid and say I'm taking your phone? The kid will go ballistic. That's your clue. But my friends, they won't be able to get a hold of me. Invite me to a party? Oh well, they can call you Yep. Okay, if that's all the friend does. And remember I said if you get asked out, this is all the guys I've been at college here.

Speaker 3: 12:49

Oh, don't even give me a thought about that.

Speaker 2: 12:50

If you get asked out by texting, dump them immediately. Do not go on that date if you get asked out by texting, because you are now going to be a relationship of a person that has a more relationship with their cell phone technology they do with you because they won't even interact with you. By the way, when you get married you want to be able to interact. Yeah, interaction's a good one. So, rule number one here's the first rule I add to a family All phones go into basket at six o'clock. You can make it seven o'clock if you want. You come home, parents, you as well. Well, I got my job. Okay, I understand there's some other things that get connected. However, don't buy into that as your excuse unless you really have a job.

Speaker 3: 13:19

Yeah, if you really have a job or your life and death is coming in, you need to be by your phone, otherwise put in the thing.

Speaker 2: 13:26

Six o'clock have a basket. Everybody's phone's going to basket. They plug them in, charge it for the next day. Kids will go put my friends you know what, tell your friends in our home. If you don't talk to me by six o'clock, I'm with my family for the night. I got other things I'm doing for the night.

Speaker 2: 13:38

If they go out and they're out somewhere. They're getting a little older and they had their phone with you because you want to track them, whatever. Okay, I understand these things, but as a whole, the first thing you do is start detoxing. Number two do not go to bed with your phone. Do not take the phone to bed. The last thing you want to do is build a relationship with your phone.

Speaker 3: 13:54

Yeah, yeah, we're talking about building relationships with other people, and if you have a more relationship with your phone than you do with your spouse or your kids, there's a problem. Same with the kids.

Speaker 2: 14:05

Couples let's have this on his chat how many times you go to bed with your phone and what you do is sit on your phone while you're in bed? How often, Just ask yourself the question.

Speaker 1: 14:13

Okay, so you see I'm right here. So what I?

Speaker 2: 14:15

want you to do is I want you to start putting that in somewhere else. Well, I use it for my alarm clock. You know what? Go to Walmart, you can pick up at 12 bucks.

Speaker 3: 14:22

Buy a $5 alarm clock anywhere.

Speaker 2: 14:25

And so those are the first two things I doubt to do. The next thing I'd add on that list is start managing when there will be no cell phone zones in your home, for example dinner table. No cell phones certain times during the day, like some families have to get together for family prayer, leave your phone, don't bring it. No buzzing. No, hey man, I got text my friend. Nope, it got put in the basket at six o'clock. Let it go, yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:48

I really like that. I mean my family. We really enjoy going out to eat with each other. Yeah, and that's our rule when we get out to eat no phones, no phones. We're there to connect.

Speaker 2: 14:57

Yeah, after six o'clock, that's what I say just dump it. So that's a couple to work towards, but you're gonna find, you're gonna push back and that's your clue. Yeah, that's your clue. You got a problem.

Speaker 3: 15:07

And if you have a problem, take the little steps, take the little steps. Now we always talk about these big things that you're gonna do, but we're saying, hey, take the next little step, little step, you don't make it dinner, we're not gonna have a phone. Yep, we go out and look it to the next tab. We go out to the next thing. Leave your phone.

Speaker 2: 15:23

If you go to a concert, I challenge you not to pick your phone up and start videoing the concert.

Speaker 1: 15:28

How about you just?

Speaker 2: 15:29

enjoy the concert. Yeah, you know what? You can go online because there are thousands of people that will video it for you. You'll find a YouTube video just up immediately. How many times have you been to concert? And everybody's phones are up.

Speaker 3: 15:40

Yeah, I was at my kids' concert the other day, like a high school singing concert, and everybody's videoing it with their phone, not even watching it, no, not even taking it in.

Speaker 2: 15:49

And I'm like what are you doing?

Speaker 1: 15:50

What are you doing?

Speaker 2: 15:50

Well, I'm making a memory. No, you're not. No, it's called feeding into a dysfunction, so be careful. All right, we come back. Got some closing thoughts, got a couple more questions. We're gonna go over some folks that had questions on our other shows, all right, so here's this one. We had an email that said Will Tony, you guys say that when you get in arguments with your spouses, you hold hands. First of all, I point out I don't remember the last time I got an argument, I don't know. There you go Right. But they said why is it that you hold hands and how do you do that? What's the point? Yeah, we'll talk about it. I wanna answer that one before we get out. We gotta take a quick break. It's let's Chat with Will and Tony. Check us out on our podcast and, of course, join us with your questions at let's Chat with willandtony at gmailcom. Back in two. All right, here we are.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Now here's will Kesley and Tony Pack.

Speaker 2: 16:52

All right, welcome back to let's Chat with Will and Tony. Will Kesley, tony back here we are, tony back, this common sense for life, and that's what I think we're trying to say. Most people, we know this stuff in our heart and our minds it's nothing new.

Speaker 3: 17:04

Agreed when you get down to it, a lot of stuff that we talk about.

Speaker 2: 17:07

Stuff we already know about. We just have a little more of an edge to say hey, by the way, warning, if no one's educated you to, this one here may give you some insight to it. I like it. So as we took the break, we said we had a listen to this, said okay, so you guys talk about holding hands when you argue with your spouse?

Speaker 3: 17:21

Yeah, I remember that we talked about that holding hands. Now, for everyone. I do not hold hands when I argue with Camille. You don't, but I practice the principle Okay, typically we're sitting next to each other. We've never been yellers, so we don't yell. Yeah, I'm always my errand and we do have arguments.

Speaker 2: 17:41

Disagreements.

Speaker 3: 17:42

Disagreements, so we're not yelling or anything, but one thing I think the idea of holding hands is key, and this I do. Practice is you're realizing that your relationship is more important than the argument.

Speaker 1: 17:55

Yes.

Speaker 3: 17:56

That's the point.

Speaker 2: 17:56

Yes, that's the principle, so it's just a disagreement. Don't blow up a lifelong, eternal relationship with somebody you adore because you have a disagreement. It's just a disagreement. You work out high-field this way, you feel that way, but don't blow up the relationship just because I'm angry and I make a point. Yeah, and so that's the point of holding hands.

Speaker 3: 18:16

I thought the comment you had about holding hands was classic because to me it solidified that principle of hey, I care about you more than this argument. I care about you more than winning this argument. Beautiful, I'm just here to discuss with you and let's work out where we wanna be, because, end of the day, we wanna be together, yes, and so what she's saying is I could never hold my spouse's hand because I'm so angry with them.

Speaker 2: 18:41

Maybe she talks with her hands, maybe. Well, okay, but I think the principle is still the point. The reason we say hold hands, say you know what? I think we're in disagreement, we're gonna hold hands, is to remind ourselves we are committed to having a disagreement and working through the facts of the disagreement. It doesn't have to become intimately connected to the soul of the person that you love. Correct, and that's what we're trying to help you remember.

Speaker 3: 19:02

So, whether you're physically or figuratively holding hands, make sure you remember that relationship's more important.

Speaker 2: 19:11

Yes, and this is why and I get, we all have times we get upset. We all have times we get frustrated. It's OK. You don't want a relationship that's so platonic. It has none of those feelings. Yeah, I mean, we're not robots, all right, nothing's being challenged, it's OK. It's about caring, candor, caring, candor. I love that statement. I always love that statement. We can be candid and honest about where we're at and what we feel and why we feel it, and still be caring about how we go about it. Don't blow up the relationship. It's like burning down your house every time you don't like a color of a wall.

Speaker 2: 19:40

Just repaint the wall Exactly. You don't have to blow the whole thing up to do it. That's what we're encouraging you to do. There you go. Good luck with the tones, no problem. I'm so glad I don't have infants and kids under five. I have grandkids and I can assure you that my children I'll understand with their children. We practice good hygiene. When it comes to technology, We've got to run Technological hygiene.

Speaker 3: 20:00

I like that term. There we go, let's go Keep it clean, brother, keep it clean.

Speaker 2: 20:04

See you next week. Join us up on our podcast. Let's chat with Will and Tony. I'd love to hear your comments. See you next week. Bye, thanks.