Laughing Through the Labels: A Neurodiverse Entrepreneur's Journey to Success

Being a successful entrepreneur is hard work for anyone. Just imagine, though, what it takes for someone who is neuro and physically diverse to make it. Well, you don’t have to imagine it. On this week’s episode we speak with Katherine McCord, a business owner and inspirational speaker, who shares how her unique perspective has been an asset in her career. 

    Katherine sheds light on how being atypical has shaped her life and career. She emphasizes why its necessary to embrace diversity and work with people and not against them. Katherine also explains the importance of:

·      Why different is not a deficit

·      The power of labels

·      The need to overcome discrimination

·      How diversity in the workplace can help a business’ bottom line

·      Tips for how diverse people can make themselves more desirable to prospective employers

·      Her innovative program that shook up the HR world

Whether you know someone who is diverse or not, you can’t help but be inspired by this memorable episode of Dream Power Radio.

    Katherine McCord, a physically and neurodiverse woman herself, built her career on inclusive innovation in people operations and hr tech. She lives by the motto that different is not a deficit. 
     In 2014 she founded Titan Management, a national people operations consulting firm, and then in 2021 she shook up HR tech by designing the first ever fully accessible, anti-bias applicant tracking system plugin that fires the resume and showcases company diversity!
     Featured at web summit, HR disruptor, SHRM, and London School of Business, she makes an energetic, interactive, education-based speaker who always brings some spice!
     When she hits the stage, get ready! Her bold, engaging style may be entertaining, but it will also provoke thought, and leave you motivated to take action!

Website: https://www.titanmanagementusa.com

Chapters

• 1:13 Debbie Spector Weisman discusses the challenges faced by individuals who are both physically and neurologically diverse.
• 2:46 Katherine McCord explains what neurodiversity is and shares her personal experiences with obsessive-compulsive disorder, bipolar disorder, and misophonia.
• 11:45 Discussion on the discrimination experienced by neurodiverse individuals and the trauma it can cause.
• 14:29 Introduction to the topic of diversity in the workplace and the guest's expertise in HR.
• 24:22 The importance of finding a personal connection with the hiring manager and highlighting the candidate's unique qualities.
• 26:00 Tips for diverse candidates to make themselves desirable to employers, including mission alignment, highlighting accomplishments, and showcasing uniqueness.

Transcript

Announcer (00:00:04) - This is Dream Power Radio, the place where your dreams turn into reality. Here is your host, Debbie Spector Weisman.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:00:13) - Hello. Hello. Hello and welcome to Dream Power Radio. I'm your host, Certified Dream-Life coach, Debbie Specter Weisman. This is a place where we talk about dreams, both daytime and nighttime dreams, and how you can use them to make the internal shift to a life you love and rediscover the truth of who you really are. It can be hard to make that internal shift, especially if you're dealing with long standing, unresolved trauma or limiting beliefs that are holding you back. Just imagine how much more difficult it can be if you're also neuro or physically diverse. It wasn't too long ago that people whose physical or mental abilities were considered below the norm were shunted to the sidelines as if they were somehow less deserving of a dream life as anyone else. Fortunately, we've made strides in this area, although many barriers still remain, and that's if you only have one of those limitations.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:01:13) - Now imagine the obstacles of what would have to overcome if she were both physically and neurologically diverse. We'd probably cheer her on and give her a pat on the back for just trying to do something with her life that would be so short sighted of us. Why? Well, now you're going to meet a woman, Katherine McCord, who's not only surviving life, but thriving as a successful entrepreneur and inspirational speaker. Katherine started out in life with challenging physical and mental conditions, but now she's become an innovator in the air field, is passionate about urging more inclusion of neurodiverse people in the workforce and is here to tell us why different is not a deficit. Welcome to Dream Power Radio, Katherine. 

Katherine McCord (00:02:02) - Thank you so much, Debbie. That is actually my favorite intro I've ever had to a speech, a show, a class, anything. Thank you. Absolutely love that.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:02:12) - I'm honored. Well, well, tell me why.

Katherine McCord (00:02:16) - Well, I feel that you captured the emotion and the spirit of what I teach, and I preach, and I just thought it was beautiful.

Katherine McCord (00:02:27) - It was a very lovely way to psychologically prepare for the conversation. So thank you. Oh, well, thank you.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:02:35) - Thank you. I'm honored, to say the least. Let's start out by having you tell me a little bit about yourself. So what makes you both neuro and physically diverse?

Katherine McCord (00:02:46) - Right. So first of all, for anyone who doesn't know what a neurodiversity is, it's simply means a medically visible and or diagnosable difference in how the brain processes information and or stimuli. And this can range anything from cerebral palsy or traumatic brain injury all the way over to obsessive compulsive disorder, bipolar anxiety disorders, autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia, etcetera. So that's sort of the spectrum that we have. I have several neurodiversity. The two that I talk about the most are my obsessive-compulsive disorder, which for me manifests primarily in my obsession with even numbers. And people go, oh yeah, well, I like this over that. No, no, it's not the same thing. So I have a compulsion, meaning I cannot do things outside of even numbers.

Katherine McCord (00:03:38) - It provides all kinds of interesting characteristics. Also, it manifests for me in the categorization so format. So I love to categorize things. So, for instance, if I'm eating M&Ms, I put them in their colors and sometimes if they have different kind of shapes to them, I'll, I'll do that. And so I love to categorize things. And so that's, that's a huge manifestation. And then I also have bipolar one, which is a fascinating diagnosis for me, and it manifests in a lot of people think that that means your mood changes very frequently. That is not accurate. It means that I have very long downs, very long ups, and then periods in between where I am at my, my base sort of status. So what you would call my normal. Correct. So that's a little bit that's how I am. The primary ways that people see that I'm Neurodiverse. Oh, another kind of funny one that I do talk about sometimes is my misophonia, which is that certain sounds make me malfunction.

Katherine McCord (00:04:37) - So for instance, while I love the act of kissing, I hate the sound of it. And I will actually physically cringe and just kind of get like nausea at the sound of kissing. So that's what Misophonia is. And it's been kind of a kick over the years to deal with and create some kind of funny.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:04:55) - How do you overcome something like that when you're with somebody else?

Katherine McCord (00:04:59) - You know, when I'm doing it, it doesn't bother me. Isn't that interesting? So what I'm doing it typically does not bother me when I'm out in society. I just I accommodate myself. I carry One of the things that I do is I'll take with me different objects that can use for grounding exercises to help my brain, kind of refocus my energy because it's not right to ask other people not to do certain things right. That's not acceptable. Um, for instance, I highly support women breastfeeding in public, but the sound makes me bonkers, so I have to have to take myself out of the situation or do grounding exercises to, to kind of compensate for that.

Katherine McCord (00:05:40) - Another thing that I do, you may notice I am wearing my noise canceling headphones because I also cannot stand multiple noises at the same time. And so that's another thing that I do a lot to accommodate myself.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:05:53) – We’ve started out this conversation talking about, , neuro and physiologically diverse, which is kind of like a label. Do you like these labels or do you think that they're detrimental or beneficial?

Katherine McCord (00:06:06) - That's a great question. I actually I like labels. Again, back to the and categorizing things. Right. And I do I do think that they're very helpful for understanding ourselves. And that's where I think that they're important. It's not so much that they're important for societal reasons or for other people. They're important for us so that we can learn to understand ourselves. So when you get a diagnosis, it's helpful because then you can research yourself and learn to understand yourself better and from that aspect, think it's beautiful. The part where I think we struggle as a society is understanding that there's nothing wrong with these labels, right. It's no different than just saying this is a purple shirt or this is a blue shirt. This is just they're just each their own thing. There's nothing defective about one. There's nothing inherently better about the other. It just is what it is. Yeah. And think the labels can help us understand each other as well.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:07:00) - Oh, I would totally agree with that. And also, I would think that especially if it's something if you're not born with it, if it's something that comes on, having that label just helps you understand, Yeah, okay, now I can deal with it because I have an understanding of it and I can. 

Katherine McCord (00:07:19) - Right. And even for people, by the way, who were born with it, but were never told that that late in life diagnosis is such a relief. I spoke to women not long ago who at the age of 63 got her autism diagnosis and goes, oh my gosh, this explains so much, you know, and it brought such relief to her.

Katherine McCord (00:07:40) - So even the late life diagnoses very much to your point. They provide relief and understanding and kind of calm the mind.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:07:48) - I think you're talking about the character traits that you have, and they look at them as character traits, don't seem like it's on an illness. It's on a deficit. It makes you have a I would call a quirky personality, which yeah, So yeah, but that's exactly it. Yeah. But am I sort of idealizing that, or does it actually cause major problems for you now?

Katherine McCord (00:08:13) - Well, one thing that I do like to let people know that disability is very common in the Neurodiverse community. It's not inherent. Not everybody experiences it. And there's three different types of disability. There's medical, which is when the medical community says you have a disability, there's legal which here in the States is governed by the American Disabilities Act. And then you have social. Social sucks because it has nothing whatsoever to do with you. It has everything to do with society and what they perceive. So there's a lot more social disability than medical disability and the Neurodiverse community, and that's very frustrating.

Katherine McCord (00:08:47) - But in terms of my actual experience and the experience of others, it varies of course, but there is medical disability for some people. For instance, with my bipolar, it's freaking terrific. A lot of the times, honestly, like I love my manic cycles, they can be very helpful. They work at 90 to nothing. I'm highly creative. Great things come out. I have so much energy. I feel very healthy and since I have a lot of medical conditions as well, that's kind of nice, right, to have those chemicals released and actually feel physically good for once. But it can also have some struggles too. So you get certain compulsions when you're manic that are not always healthy. You have to learn to manage that. Of course, the depressive cycles can be very dangerous and harmful for some. I've learned to manage mine very well, and they're also not as complex as my manic cycles and my particular case. So for me, I've just learned to handle it. So there is definite disability and or frustration with it can be very annoying, as you can probably imagine.

Katherine McCord (00:09:48) - If you have to do everything and even numbers that can be a bit much. But when you accommodate yourself, you learn to handle all this healthy. It becomes much less stressful, much more of a daily disaster, so to speak. And then there is a beautiful benefit to all of these. So spoke about some of the benefits to my, my mania, which I absolutely adore. Plus, the way that my mind works as a bipolar person is has set me up to be all about innovation, which I love. I love that characteristic of myself. And we're designed as humans to balance ourselves out, right? So where there's a struggle over here, we have benefit over here. And science is finally catching up to that with studies from Harvard. The National Library of Medicine has multiple studies published on this. Hewlett-Packard, actually, of all places, did a great study around this, talking about the benefits of neurodiversity and how, in fact, we do balance ourselves out. So these things are not deficits.

Katherine McCord (00:10:44) - They are, to your point, characteristics and just kind of manifestations of what's going on inside of us. So, no, I think that it's not to gloss over it. I don't think it excludes disability to say that because disability and or struggles are part of the human experience. Right? So yeah, it's just it's just a characteristic. That's all it is.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:11:06) - I'm sure as you've gone through life, there have been times when people maybe bullied you or excluded you or did other negative behaviors as a result of the person you are. How did you handle that?

Katherine McCord (00:11:21) - So I am a very unique person in this way. And number one, I realize that you haven't spent a lot of time with me in my personal life. So. So I'm going to kind of give a reference. Have you ever seen the show Designing Women, by any chance? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, Julia, that's. That's me. There is no piggy on me. That's just not a thing that's going to happen in your life.

Katherine McCord (00:11:45) - And if you try, well, you're going to pay for that mistake. But it's I also just kind of never cared. I, I was kind of born with this funny sort of feeling of like, well, if you don't want anything to do with me, that's your loss. Sorry for you. You know, just kind of just kind of kept going on with it. But a lot of people in the community absolutely experienced that and have still had discrimination against me. You know, people that thought I couldn't do something because of my medical conditions or because of my neurodiversity, things like that, certain assumptions. Most people are intelligent enough that I can quiet those for them, and I can help them understand and see that everything's okay. But there's always the jerks and the people that just don't want to include and can't do anything about those people. But it absolutely is a problem in the community. I've spoken to a lot of people in my work that have had horrible trauma, even from their own parents and that's the one that really just kills me.

Katherine McCord (00:12:44) - That's got to be that.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:12:45) - Yeah, it's parents.

Katherine McCord (00:12:48) - It's awful, you know? And a lot of what it is, is it's unintentional for a lot of parents. They think that they're helping, you know, they think that they're helping by saying be normal, stop being like this, be normal. That'll make your life easier. Well, it doesn't It creates a lot of psychological damage and a lot of emotional trauma. Actually, physical manifestations can happen from that. So it's very difficult to have that kind of trauma. And so one of the main things I always try to teach with people is to remember that. You're normal and your perspective is not factually normal is not factually the perspective. These humans over here have a whole different scenario. And that's kind of what makes us great and fascinating as the human race. But then you have to steer into that and not against it. So work with people, not against them is kind of the idea there.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:13:44) - That is a great thought in this segment on. We are going to take a short break. We are speaking all about diversity with Katherine McCord. And we'll be right back.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:13:46) - Hey, this is Debbie Spector Weisman, I have a question for you. Are you a business owner with big dreams but struggling to turn them into reality? If so, I'm here to help you. I'm offering a free dream. Big business breakthrough session where will identify the biggest challenges holding you back and create a plan to overcome them? Don't wait too long because this offer won't last forever. Take action today and book your free dream. Big Business Breakthrough Session with me by visiting my website: TheDreamCoach.Net. Let's make your dreams a reality together.

Announcer (00:14:24) - Welcome back to Dream Power Radio with your host, Debbie Spector Weisman.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:14:29) - Yes. Welcome back to Dream Power Radio. I'm your host, Debbie Spector Weisman. And we're talking all about diversity with Katherine McCord. Well, Katherine, I want to get back to or get into your actually field, which is H.R. and talking about diversity in the workplace.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:14:46) - But let's start at the beginning, because when most little girls think about what they want to be when they grow up, they talk about being an artist or a sports star or a doctor or a teacher, something like that. You're the only person I've ever encountered who decided on a career in H.R. when you were little. What's that about?

Katherine McCord (00:15:10) - Like, what's that about? Like what? What happened here? This is so weird. So my mother was in recruiting when I was very small and eventually into full on air and so. And she would take me with her. Both of my parents would take me to work with them and let me experience their careers, which is interesting because my father is an educator and I also speak and educate. So kind of ended up going, you know, following both of them in my own way. And so I would watch my mom would watch what she did for a living. I would ask her a lot of questions about it was a very inquisitive child and then would make her act it out with me as I sort of processed what it was that she was doing.

Katherine McCord (00:15:46) - And so I would set up conventions because that was one of the scenarios I'd seen. And we would do that. And then I would set up interviews and applications for her. She would fill them out. I would ask her questions, and I even fired her once, which was super rude, like it was about 5 or 6 years old. Don't remember now what she did but fired her. And so just I just kind of owned it. And then I always also knew from a very early age, not quite that young, but I also knew pretty early on that I wanted to have my own business because I saw that those were the people making the real changes too. So yeah, so that's kind of but it was my mom. That's it was really just that simple. And she, she had the sense to have me around what she did, you know, and kind of show me the adult world from a young age. So it worked out pretty good.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:16:29) - And she was supportive of you in all aspects then?

Katherine McCord (00:16:33) - Oh my gosh. Oh my. Both of my parents are extraordinary human beings, and they were very intentional parents. You know, everything they did had a purpose to it. And so my mother tells me, don't remember now what it was I was doing. But she tells me the story of walking in when I was about 3 or 4 years old and seeing how I was interacting with my toys and going, Oh, that's not right. You know, like in her mind, you know, she realized the obsessive-compulsive disorder very, very early on. But they never made me. That's what she thought in her mind. But it never came out, you know. And so she, you know, immediately went to my dad. They worked out a kind of a plan. And they never made me feel strange or odd, never made me feel like that was wrong or bad or, you know, that that was a defect in any way. They just steered into it like, okay, well, this is what she's going to do, so let's just roll with it and let's just do these things and really supported me.

Katherine McCord (00:17:24) - They harvested independence for me. I was kind of naturally inclined that way. And they just said, all right, so let's just milk it for all it's worth. And taught me to be super independent, which I eternally grateful for. And they've supported me always along the way. And they'll tell me when I'm messing up. But that love and support is always there 100%.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:17:47) - That is so wonderful to hear and sad that not everybody can experience that. But yeah, that is so great. And in my introduction, I use the term different. It's not a deficit. I actually stole it from you.

Katherine McCord (00:18:03) - Which loved Love it.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:18:04) - So how have you used being a neuro and physiological, physiologically diverse person as an advantage in your workplace?

Katherine McCord (00:18:14) - Hugely. So number one, I steer into what's different about me. I learned that again from my parents. Just stare into it. This is who you are. So just. Just roll with it. And so, you know, my natural inclinations are to find the best way and to find the.

Katherine McCord (00:18:29) - The most streamlined way. Again, that's back to the obsessive-compulsive disorder. Right? And so I steer into that. And so that's led me into a lot of innovations. I'm superb at efficiency and I'm really great at building out systems because another interesting manifestation and side effect of all of my neurodiversity is this 3D model thinking that I have where I can just kind of go into my brain and picture this whole thing and what it needs to look like and kind of get a hawk eye view of the situation, so to speak. Right? And then just go through and build all of those things out. And so I've used that very, very much in my work and in teaching and teaching others how to how to do different things. And I have very keen emotional intelligence and ability to read people in a very unique way because of another one of my neurodiversity. And so I really hone in on that and use that as I'm teaching and I'm training because I can watch their interactions and pivot, you know, according to what I'm what I'm seeing with them.

Katherine McCord (00:19:30) - And it's been very helpful, and it's made me really, really good at that interviewing as well. So I use all of those kind of things and being different. And in terms of the physical diversity, I use that to connect to humans, right? To let them see and to show the vulnerability, which was so hard to learn to do. By the way, I am not naturally like a share everything about myself kind of person that took so much practice. But I've started to learn that sharing that it helped other people to understand. And also when I explained things to people openly, then it didn't stress them out anymore. And what I notice is, is that people stop seeing it as a defect. When they saw that I was okay with it. They're like, Oh, okay, it's no big deal. And so when I would tell that, tell it to them as no big deal, then they would receive it that way. So for instance, I have seizure activity quite often and you'll see twitches on the left side of my face.

Katherine McCord (00:20:25) - And a lot of times it looks like I'm winking at you. And so I tell people like, okay, if you see this, don't worry, I'm not trying to pick you up or anything. Like, I'm not trying to get a date with you. This is like this happens sometimes. No big deal. I can keep working. Just don't worry about it. And then they're like, Oh, okay. And then they see it. They might kind of giggle a little bit and then off we go. You know, it's just it's just no big deal. So think, you know, creating the vulnerability, using kind of those kind of gifts that I have from those aspects. And then also learning to use it to connect to the other people and to kind of decompress them a little bit has been really, really useful for me.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:21:04) - That's a wonderful gift and attribute to have because I imagine that most employers want to have, you know, I'd say, for lack of a better word, homogenization, homogenization in their work.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:21:17) - Yes, the same. And the fact that you can make people feel at ease with somebody who doesn't fit into that perfect mold that they want to have is the thing that makes you that kind of beneficial person and shows and also leads the way and shows people that you don't have to be this little perfect, you know, monotonous kind of person who system.

Katherine McCord (00:21:48) - It's so true. And that is exactly how I'll introduce diverse candidates is I'll say, hey, this is so cool. This person could do this and this. It's amazing, you know? And if the person wants me to disclose for them, I will. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. And I just kind of present it like, hey, you know, this is so cool because of this they could do this and it's so great, you know, and it really just relaxes people, and it helps them to see the benefit of what's going on. And then the other thing I do that think there are some people in the and work love it some people don’t, but the truth is that it matters when you're working in this field is you have to have measurables for everything and you have to be able to explain to people in a language that they get why it matters to them.

Katherine McCord (00:22:32) - So if you're talking to executives, you need to tie it into profit productivity and customer satisfaction. That's it, right? That's you got to tie everything into that. If you're talking to an HR person, you know, it's going to be more about taking care of the humans, the employee satisfaction, these types of things, you know, taking making everything healthier and flow better and compliance, you know, they all need compliance. And so you have to learn how to kind of have those conversations. So that's another thing I do is I'll kind of pivot how I speak based on my audience. And again, back to the neurodiversity. My brain's just like, oh, this these types of people, you know, appreciate this and this and this and this and it works.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:23:13) - Yeah. Give me a sort of brief conversation that you might have. Let's say, with an HR person. You're trying to get them to be interested in a prospective person.

Katherine McCord (00:23:24) - So HR people are usually the easiest buy in, actually.

Katherine McCord (00:23:28) - So I'm going to pivot that, if you don't mind, and answer for a hiring manager because people usually just kind of roll with whatever the recruiting person sends them. So on the hiring manager side, so one of the things that you have to work with them on is, is understanding that having a mental image of what they want is counterproductive. It doesn't work. It just it just doesn't it creates bias. It creates problem. And that what you really need to do is solve this problem, that all these little inconsequential details that they've decided are so important don't actually matter. You just need the right human. So here, here you go. Here's how you do it. So what I do is I get to know them, and I figure out the things that make them tick. So what is the main problem that they need solved? And I need to tie my candidate into how they're going to solve that problem immediately. Right. And then you got you have to find a way to personally connect to them because human beings are designed.

Katherine McCord (00:24:22) - So that will be personally care about something that trickles into everything else. If we can make a personal connection to something, then there you go. So, for instance, I was I was presenting a candidate recently that I knew didn't match 100% of what they thought the qualifications needed to be. But I knew that the person could do the job. So I knew that that this particular person, one of the things that was presenting them to one of the things that he prides himself on is his independent spirit. And just kind of like how you just figure things out as he goes, right? So I sent him over and first I tied them to how they would actually solve the problem for the position, said, okay, here's this, but then said, hey, you know what? Just freaking love about this person. They and I told him a story about how this person was completely had independently created something and solved a problem and said that made me think about when you did XYZ. And I tied those two things in together and let him see.

Katherine McCord (00:25:22) - And then the interview went beautifully. And now the person's in final round his for the position. It works, you know, connecting the people and helping them to see that there is likeness but also difference. So then I highlighted, you know, the first thing I did was highlight how they would solve the problem because there's a gap, right? So you have to highlight that aspect and then also show the sameness as well, because that's what's going to emotionally connect them.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:25:48) - Hey, what if somebody doesn't have a person like you to help lead the way to the employer? How would a diverse person make themselves desirable to an employer?

Katherine McCord (00:26:00) - First of all, mission alignment. People miss that. And this is for anybody, really. Right? But even if you're in the disability or diverse categories, mission alignment, first and foremost, when you are on the same trajectory, then you are going to do better and you and you want to let them know, you know, hey, we are mission aligned on this.

Katherine McCord (00:26:23) - This is I am right there with you. I love your work. This is awesome. Here we go. Let's do this mission alignment, El numero uno and make sure that your mission is clear in your resume. Hate resumes. That's a whole other show, but we have to use them right now. But make sure that your mission is clear in in your resume. The other thing is to highlight your accomplishments. People miss this hit on your accomplishments that you have put them at the top of every single thing that you're describing. Then also focus on what makes you unique and people really miss this opportunity even in their resume, to showcase what makes them so very unusual. So, for instance, in the last resume that I created, and I do use them occasionally to pitch to clients, some clients want a resume. And so I still have to maintain once the last one that I created, one of the things that's at the very, very top is talking about how I completely reinvented an HR tech.

Katherine McCord (00:27:20) - And what's going to be interesting about that to somebody, they're going to look at my background and go, she doesn't have a technical background, but she designed and built a technology. Whoa. Like, how did that happen? Wait, hold on. I will mention in my volunteer experience how I worked with lions, how have fostered and cared for lions and tigers and bears. People go, oh my, right. It's the natural positive response, right? Like, oh my. Okay, well, that's interesting. I need to talk to that human, like what's going on there. And that's what that shows them. What I'm actually showing to them is that I have a bold personality and that I will go into the great beyond with you head first charging, leading, you know, leading the charge. And that's really appealing, especially to my clients because I tend to focus on small two growth stage companies, and they're still very much in that mindset. And so I'm showing them that aspect of my personality by showcasing those aspects.

Katherine McCord (00:28:12) - So that's what I would do. I would put the uniqueness right on out there, just roll with it.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:28:18) - That's great. And I would love to hear more about those lions. And we just have time for what it is. We'll have to do it on another show. We just have time for this. One final question, Katherine. How can people find out more about you and your work?

Katherine McCord (00:28:34) - Yeah, first of all, I have a speaking site where you can also see some pictures of me in my bio. Some of the lions and tigers are on there. So you can go to KayMcCordspeaking.com and then you can also reach me on LinkedIn. I'm very active. I'm one of only 2 or 3 Katherine records with my spelling in the United States that's active on there. So I'm very easy to find. And then you can go to my, my website, my professional website, which is Titan Management. And, and I welcome any questions or interactions that someone may have.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:29:06) - That's wonderful. Katherine, thank you so much for being on Dream Power Radio today.

Katherine McCord (00:29:10) - Thank you. It's been a blast. I really enjoyed it.

Debbie Spector Weisman (00:29:13) - Oh, well, thank you. We've been speaking about diversity in the workforce with entrepreneur and inspirational speaker Katherine McCord. I hope you've enjoyed today's program. If so, please hit that subscribe button so you don't miss out on any future episodes. Until next time, this is Debbie Spector Weisman saying Sweet Dreams, Everybody.

Announcer (00:29:33) - You've been listening to Dream Power Radio with your host, Debbie Spector Weisman. For more information on Debbie or to sign up for her newsletter, go to Dream Power Radio. This has been Dream Power Radio.