Creative Money ATX
I am Bri Landry and I grew up in Austin, Texas. I have seen the skyscrapers go up with the cost of living. Austin has always been a place for creatives and I want to find out how we can keep it that way. In this podcast, I will be talking to local artists to find out how they are affording Austin. I want to talk about money, successes, and failures. What does it take to make a living off your art in Austin?
Creative Money ATX
10. Almost Real Things | Zach and Natalie
In this episode of Creative Money ATX, I sit down with Natalie Earhart and Zach Zulch, the co-founders of Almost Real Things (ART) — a for-profit arts organization based in Austin that supports local creatives through a mix of events, exhibitions, and their signature magazine. Natalie also serves as Editor-in-Chief and a contributing writer, while Zach brings a complementary skill set that helps drive the organization’s vision.
We start with Natalie’s and Zach’s personal journeys — how their relationships with art began, how they describe what they do, and the story of how Almost Real Things was born. They share the early inspirations, the evolution of the magazine, and what it’s like running a creative business day-to-day.
We also get into the financial side of things: how ART functions as a for-profit, what revenue streams they’ve developed, and what experiments haven’t worked out. Natalie and Zach open up about the realities of sustaining an arts business in Austin — from barriers local artists face to their own strategic goals for 2025.
Jason Webb watercolor artist
Where to find Almost Real Things
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/almostrealthings/
Find me, Bri Landry
Instagram @creative_moneyatx
https://www.creativemoneyatx.com/
If you liked the show please share, rate, and review.
I had big plans for season two. I knew exactly what I wanted and I knew how to do it. But yeah, getting it done with just me is sadly pretty hard. My plans were to have 10 episodes, just like season one, check, got that done. If you're hearing this, I have at least a classic intro and outro for the podcast. I kind of missed, though, talking to you guys at the beginning or the end of the podcast, so I might mess with that a little bit. I wanted cover art, which we got. Thank you, Tate. Sponsors would be nice. A way for the listeners to contribute would be nice. A website did that one. And I wanted to publish once a week. That was ambitious, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to get it on a consistent schedule like a traditional podcast, but, you know, I'm just going to keep on making them anyway. Most people who start podcasts, they get to three episodes and then they stop, so I've made 20, which is pretty cool, even if they all were not in a predictable order. I have a lot of ideas for a creative money ATX, and I want all of them to happen right now. And if you're an artist, you are familiar with this dilemma. Even after you work really hard to just get an idea, you still need to find a plan, follow through, pay bills somehow. You know, that's what this podcast is about. Some highlights from Season 2... I started interviewing in advance because I wanted again to get that one week schedule and put the interviews in the queue. I wanted to start the season during East while people were still excited about local art. I got some of that done, started collecting audio equipment, which has been great. Sound is really important to me, but sound also costs money. So finding that balance and Things weren't as exactly straightforward as I would have liked, but accomplished a lot in season two, and I'm glad that you're listening and gotten this far. And if you're new, welcome. There's more to come. I already have interviews recorded and ready to go for season three. When will they come out? TBD. TBD, TBD, TBD. Because it's going to be that kind of podcast, and I have to accept that. Thank you for listening, and here is episode 10. I hope you enjoy. Hello, I'm Brie Landry. This podcast is about artists making a living here in my hometown, Austin, Texas. I talk to local artists about their relationship with art and money and find out what success looks like for an artist here in Austin. This is Creative Money ATX. Today I have Natalie Earhart with me and Zach Zolch.
SPEAKER_01:Hello.
SPEAKER_00:Hi. Hi. I was thinking we could talk about y'all and then we can talk a little bit. I mean, then we can talk about almost real things. Is that okay? For sure. Yeah. So first, how did y'all meet? We met in high school.
SPEAKER_01:Sophomore year. Yeah, when we were
SPEAKER_00:14 or 15 years old in English class. Yeah, Zach was pretty outspoken. I was definitely not. And somehow, I think we bonded over music, burning CDs and things like that. Good friendships start like that. And then how did your relationship with art start, Natalie? Yeah, Zach and I have known each other for forever. I went to college for studio art, mostly doing sculptural work. We were in touch. We both moved to Austin in 2015. And initially really were into publication and print. So that's why Almost Real Things started as a magazine. I was also a writer, saxographic designer. So it just kind of was working together and then blossomed into a business. So yeah, now we're 10 years in and have done all of these things that we weren't setting out to do, but they've all been really rewarding.
SPEAKER_01:When did you make that decision? Like in elementary school or whatever you wrote. Oh, yeah. You wanted to be. Oh,
SPEAKER_00:with art. Sometimes I get confused because our acronym is art, like almost real things. Oh, yeah. When I was well, I found this recently when I was like six or seven. I had you had to put like what you want to be when you grow up. And I said, I want to be an artist and a writer. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I guess I did. My thing. It worked. Checked all the boxes. This was fate. I think I wanted to be a marine biologist because of the dolphin. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:yeah. You get to just swim with them and stuff, right? Yeah, no science. That's what Marissa Gravitt wanted to
SPEAKER_00:do. Yeah, yeah, her best friend. But actual biology and math, I'm fine. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:once you get to the science of it all.
SPEAKER_00:Not as fun. It's very pretty, though. What about you, Zach? How did your relationship with art start?
SPEAKER_01:I think it was probably from like birth, basically, because my dad is a lawyer, but only because his dad was a concert pianist and a painter. And so my dad, given his relationship with his father, wanted to do the exact opposite of that. And then being a lawyer, which my dad was really good at and liked, he said that I would never recommend anybody become a lawyer. And so I took that to heart. And yeah. became an artist. Initially wanted to be an architect, but didn't like all the math that came with it. And the project length is what I saw was like a 10 year cycle for like a single project. And I said, that's way too long. I need like three months max on any project. So then graphic design kind of filled that void of, you know, wanting to create something and have it be lasting, but also you get to do more than one project every 10 years.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. When I was younger, I also told my friend, I was like, I think I want to be a lawyer. And she automatically goes, you're way too creative to do that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, my dad always says that the most creative people do become lawyers, but it's because either they didn't think that they could make it as either a musician. I think he said that the two biggest majors in law school were music and and philosophy. And so it's like people who went with music but didn't think that they could make it as a musician or people who went with philosophy because they liked art and music and just like talking about it. And that's exactly what my brother did. He got a philosophy degree and then became a lawyer. I
SPEAKER_00:kind of like my lawyer having a philosophy degree.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he's a very creative person too. I think it's just like the outlet that you find, I guess, through life takes you to different places.
SPEAKER_00:It's a weird journey. So when people ask y'all what you do, how do you answer? It changes a lot. Whatever I want. Yeah. I do what I want. Initially, again, Almost Real Things was a publication. So it was almost like we, I'm a writer. I think even my bio says editor-in-chief, which is such a small part of what I do now. But so now it's like a We run an organization, a community arts organization, where we do events, have space, create magazine. So we just kind of laundry list. We've had to remember to keep it short for the years.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like we keep going.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It depends on what part of the business you're asking. Yeah. That's really it. Because it is a magazine. It's an events company. It's a studio space for rentals or actual studios. Yeah. Coworking, creative coworking, markets, bus tour. It's a bus company.
SPEAKER_00:Art shows, music shows.
SPEAKER_01:Creative agency for marketing work and branding. And yeah, it's kind of like the whole business and the name Almost Real Things allowed us to do whatever we wanted to do. And like, I think that's why it's lasted for 10 years now. is because we just pivoted towards whatever was working at the time and whatever had the best impact for the community. But it's always been about that, like people who are passionate about what they do and they want to share that. So there's been a hundred different ways that we've achieved that goal. And it just always is evolving.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And that's kind of the next question is, could you explain almost real things, which you kind of already did, Zach? Nope.
SPEAKER_01:Unexplainable.
SPEAKER_00:Zach's good at it. Good at this answer.
SPEAKER_01:So the name Almost Real Things came from like a list of maybe 20 names that we had at the very beginning of just the publication. I think other ones were like Consider Your Legs and like Whirlpool. Something like that, right? Super like zine worthy names. Yeah, way, way out there. And I don't know why I bought the domain Almost Real Things back in like 2013. I don't know what I was thinking at the time, but I was looking through my domain names and I saw it and added it to the list and then started thinking about like, oh, it's perfect because Natalie had just gotten finished with this really cool art project. Very personal, very conceptual work. And she like, what did you finish it at midnight?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's been months on this letterpress project gone. Yeah. gone out of my way to make these like embossed cards with vellum and whatnot. But yeah, I finished it at like 4 a.m. in my apartment and I was like, okay, I'm done. Like I didn't have any plan for it.
SPEAKER_01:We're in a new city, don't know anybody.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was like, had no plan for to show anybody and I was just like, whoa, I just spent so much time on this. I would like to show it to someone and I have no idea how to do that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So that's kind of we were like thinking about, okay, all like, there's so many people who have projects like this, who, if you're at the beginning of your career or you're in a new place, it just doesn't feel right to like pop up and like start a friendship by like, look what I made. I, you know, I care about this a lot. And they're like, I don't know. Yeah. It's like showing your friend a song that you made. Right. And it's like, here's four minutes of like me pouring my heart out and you have to sit through the whole thing and like, hopefully act like you're interested.
SPEAKER_00:But before they're even a friend.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So it's even harder. So we were like, okay, what do we, like call these things and they just gravitated towards the term almost real things. It's like before you share it with anybody, it's almost real. But once you do that act of sharing, it becomes real. And so that's, I think we really liked that concept of putting out a magazine that was full of things that people had not seen before. And especially a collection of work from emerging artists who are all very talented as well. And seeing where it goes and seeing how many people thought that that was a good idea. So we put out the first issue with no intent of like really having a second issue. We were like, let's see if this works. See if anybody cares. And then we had like 60 people email us after the first one wanting to be in the second
SPEAKER_00:one. I know. They were like, how do I get in it? I'm like, I need to figure that out. Maybe there's
SPEAKER_01:a process we should make. But yeah, it was like, it's like sad, but also happy. It's like there's so many people who have things that they want to share and very few ways to do it. And yeah. Even at that time, we were like, fuck Instagram. So even 10 years ago, it's not a good way to have people find you and to make actual connections and have conversations around art. And so we were like, yeah, what's a better way to do this? A print magazine where you can't track anything and you just drop them around the city and it's free and we'll never know. Initially, we would never know who was reading them and where they would end up. But
SPEAKER_00:the events were born out of that, which is community centric and then in person.
SPEAKER_01:Very quickly with the second. Well, we had a launch party for the first issue where we had like maybe 80 people show up, which was pretty great. Cool for the first thing. And then we had a big party for the second issue and the third and fourth issue. And at that point, that was like, OK, now we've made the connection where we can like see and talk to the people who were in the magazine and became friends with them and then gave them opportunities to make friends with other people in the community. And
SPEAKER_00:now
SPEAKER_01:it's a cycle.
SPEAKER_00:And you're very obviously filling a void like some of those needed. Yeah. Yeah. I think still like the validity of being in a magazine is still like thought of, you know, it's a very cool thing. And I think it was fun to Because we always took the magazine seriously in the sense of the design and the writing and the professional, you know, and the printing. We invested a lot of just our own money wanting it to look really nice and be something that people keep. But it's very cool to give someone that opportunity to feel valid in what they're making and what they're pursuing and then feel confident to keep doing it. Definitely. It sounds like there's two ways almost real things could have gone and it could have been like Scope creep and then get really overwhelmed of all the cool things you can do. But it also sounds like y'all just evolved like thoughtfully and then kind of figured it out. Does that sound fair?
SPEAKER_01:Whether it was intentional or not, I think it's the push and pull of our relationship, too, is like I'm very like go getter,
SPEAKER_00:like
SPEAKER_01:super optimistic about everything. And I'm like, just because you're around talented people, you feel like you can do anything. Yeah. Right. Anything that you want to do or anything. as you shouldn't do all of the things that you could possibly do. I keep telling our friend Joey this. I was like, just because you know how to do something doesn't mean you should be doing it all the time. Especially once you like graduate past a certain level.
SPEAKER_00:100%.
SPEAKER_01:Teach somebody else to do that job or like, you know, start growing a team so that you can have a personal life and like free time.
SPEAKER_00:What were you going to describe me as? You described yourself.
SPEAKER_01:The opposite of
SPEAKER_00:that.
SPEAKER_01:No,
SPEAKER_00:I'm sad and pessimistic.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't think anything's going to work. Do
SPEAKER_00:you think you're pessimistic? No, I'm a little cynical. I was. I'm probably less so now. I'm more like pragmatic. So where Zach's like, let's do 500 things this month. I'm like, let's pick five.
SPEAKER_01:Sounds way less fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I think that's where we meet in the middle.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's a balance for sure. Yeah. And it goes the opposite way a few times too. I have to reel you in.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. I usually go down a rabbit hole for like, oh, I want this to be really weird and confusing, especially with like the articles in the magazine or content. And Zach will be like, OK, but no one will understand that. And they won't they won't want to read it. And I'm like, but that doesn't matter. But we're a business. So, yeah,
SPEAKER_01:it's things that would have been funny stories. I feel like comedians have a lot of this, too, where it's like they'll create a project that's so out there that's like hilarious and so niche that But it fails. It's like a huge failure. And it's like a funny story that they tell of like, I tried to do this thing and it was like, we wasted two million dollars doing this. Like, that's hilarious. But yeah, if you think about it like a business, that's not sustainable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So one of I think one of the ideas is the trash issue. Oh, yeah. Issue is just. But it was more
SPEAKER_00:about reusable material. But then we were also like trash magazine. How could we make it look kind of like this trashy thing? And then like artists, they're just like you and show them doing normal things going to the HEB. But then, yeah, conceptually, it could be fun. But then, yeah, being like, do you want to be in the trash issue when we email? Or it might end up in the trash quite
SPEAKER_01:often. Yeah. Yeah. Which is the exact opposite of the initial goal, which was create something that people would never want to throw away.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. We did have the issue seven was called Fail Well. So it was about like, what are things that you tried that didn't work out, but what do you learn from them? But. We just shorthand would call it the fail issue. So that was to like writing an email being like, hey, I want to interview you for the fail issue. Someone was like that. I don't want to do
SPEAKER_01:that. You're perfect for this one.
SPEAKER_00:So it took some explaining. Yeah, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Only approach good friends. Yeah. So what does the average day look like for your jobs?
SPEAKER_01:There are no average days, only extraordinary days. I
SPEAKER_00:mean, we're doing a lot of administrative work. We're in the office a lot. We have our office here, our HQ in South Austin, but now we're also on Cesar Chavez at the East Studios. A lot of emailing people back. I'm always like, I email someone back and I'm like... And then I'm surprised when they may email me back and I'm like, oh no, I have to do this again. It's like an endless cycle.
SPEAKER_01:It seems to be how the morning starts. You wake up and you look at your phone and there's somebody who wants something from you and you're like, ah, but that's the only way to get out of bed is that they're relying on you.
SPEAKER_00:We try to do admin meetings on Monday to start the week and then throughout the week have just a lot of meetings with people. So it's either about like an event we're doing or an event they want to do, rentals, upcoming projects, checking in on something we're currently working on. We partner a lot with our friends at Mesmerize, Clay and Mateo. So we'll meet them. It kind of just depends the current project that we're working on, but we're mostly in the office, both offices. And then it's always fun. There are artists that work in in our HQ with us. And there's artists at the other studio. So then we just get to talk and see what they're doing and talk about art stuff. And it can very easily distract, which I love. So, you know, we just get to be around art all the time as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think every day is pretty different.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's hard to, again, it's like, what section of the business are we focusing on? At what point? Because it could be very design heavy. It could be very like, just physical labor, moving things back and forth and setting up for a big event. Yeah. And then cleaning after a big event. I
SPEAKER_00:always underestimated.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Quibbling about where things should go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And whether or not they are in the right place.
SPEAKER_00:At least once a month have some sort of like, what am I doing? What am I doing? What did I do? Like existential crisis. That's usually me. Zach doesn't really have that.
SPEAKER_01:No, mine's all...
SPEAKER_00:Internal?
SPEAKER_01:It's all over there on my desk right now. That's my existential crisis. Just objects that... I don't want to throw away, but they don't have a home.
SPEAKER_00:I'm familiar with the strategy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So then they've piled up quite nicely. I
SPEAKER_00:piled them for you.
SPEAKER_01:No, they did it to themselves. Yeah, Natalie put all of the stuff in my corner and now I have to figure that one out. So that's probably what my day looks like after this. But the past two weeks were just financial spreadsheets trying to figure out what our future looks like based on the past.
SPEAKER_00:With that in mind, and also asking the same question differently, y'all are a for-profit, right? Yeah. So how does that flow of money work? Like, where does it come from? And then how do you decide what projects to allocate it to?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, so we used to, I guess we still are. I guess there's really no paperwork, but there's like umbrella projects. nonprofit can have sponsored projects and you can get grant money from the city. This is how it used to work. Now the city opened it up to for-profits. So we don't have to use that designation anymore to apply. But a lot of that grant money that we've gotten over the years is very specific towards the events that we put on. So for this year, we got the Elevate grant and all of that money is going to go towards Touch the Art to expand that program this year. So that one's pretty cut and dry where the money goes.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. And, you know, grant money in the city of Austin is always going to go towards an event or a project or an event series. Yeah. So that's where that. And then other streams of revenue. Is that kind of the question you're asking? Just having a physical space. So rent, studio rent, whether for monthly and then one-off rentals.
SPEAKER_01:So we have RHQ and we have 2324. Yeah. Studios and Gallery over on East Cesar Chavez.
SPEAKER_00:Which is a little newer, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we got that more recently.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's not a new studio space, but we took over managing less than a year ago. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So we have those. And then we have all of the gigs that we do as a creative agency for other businesses. As we've gotten a lot of experience in the event world, marketing, promotion,
SPEAKER_00:marketing.
SPEAKER_01:Advertising, branding, all of that kind of stuff. People have asked us to help step in for other larger productions, which has been really cool to see older businesses and more established legacy businesses, how they run from the inside and how sometimes they feel like they've looked at things a little too closely and they need just a fresh shake up or somebody to shoot out some stupid ideas so that they can choose ones that maybe are... a little bit out of their comfort zone, but probably more effective, which I think is super fun
SPEAKER_00:just
SPEAKER_01:to come in and like, like learn about somebody else's baby and then be like, what if they did this? Yeah. Yeah. See how far you can take that conversation. Do
SPEAKER_00:you have an example of a project that you'll?
SPEAKER_01:I think the most fun one that we helped with recently was Armadillo
SPEAKER_00:for me. Armadillo Christmas
SPEAKER_01:Bazaar. We have, we got to do two focus groups and talk to 20 different people about like their experience with it. And it's coming up on its 50th year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this year.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this year is their 50th. So it's a big deal.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And
SPEAKER_01:people have strong opinions and like a variety of different ways because it's evolved over the years. And it's like, oh, yeah, I went 10 years ago. It's like, Very different than it was, I'm sure. And just like the world changes so quickly. That
SPEAKER_00:one's very interesting because, well, the founders have been so kind, but Bruce and Annie starting it in the 70s in Austin as essentially an art market in a parking lot, you know, where he worked to see something like that sustained for 50 years at the scale that it is now. is pretty wild for us, you know, being only 10 years in. So they just have endless stories and have had so cool. Yeah. Just so many experiences. And I feel like we don't always talk to like, especially in Austin, there's a lot of new, new blood here, new things going on, but like talking to older organizations, more established organizations about their journey as well. has been really insightful. And it's very cool that they have reached out to us and befriended us, even though what we do is, I mean, we correlate on art, but like the way we do it is pretty different. But they wanting to kind of like see how we could cross over and what we could do for them. And of course, we're pushing ideas like a giant armadillo mascot and like crazy things we're hoping to pull off this year.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we have to talk to them and see what they're into. But yeah, we have provided them like a It ended up being 120-something pages of suggestions and fun ideas.
SPEAKER_00:And research, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:From the focus groups and everything else that we were researching from their history and the numbers. They do great recaps after every year, so they luckily are very data-driven. But yeah, things like that. And then Clay and Mateo at Mesmerize, who... We spoke about earlier, they have all sorts of cool projects for South by and like more event production gigs. So people are coming in and working at, you know, budgets that are 10 to 20 times what we're used to. We always had talked about, like, wouldn't that be the dream? You know, like we're at the beginning, we were putting on events for.$3,000. And then we're trying to make them like the biggest thing that we could possibly make, you know? And now, and now we're like, okay, any gallery show that you put on ends up being$3,000. So now we're trying, our scale went up. Now it's like, oh,$10,000 would be like a really, really great big event for us. And then 30,000. And then we
SPEAKER_00:need 50,000. Yeah. I mean,
SPEAKER_01:inflation plays into this a lot too. But when somebody comes to you and they're like, Hey, we have a million dollar budget. And you're like, Once you line out of it all out, you're like, that's not enough. How did that happen?
SPEAKER_00:Our mission got expensive.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. So
SPEAKER_00:what's something that Almost Real Things has tried and it didn't work out? Becoming millionaires. I mean, there's probably a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, sticking to a quarterly publication schedule.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, that's a
SPEAKER_01:good one. That's a tough one, especially the magazine ended up initially every issue. was its own art project. It had a theme. It was very curated. The design changed every time because I'm a masochist and wanted it to lean into whatever the theme was. The prompts are different. So it was like the least templated thing that you've ever experienced on a publication, which is the opposite of how publications are supposed to run. I'm pretty sure I've never worked at one. Also, I mean, I've never worked at like, you know, a standard business model. one. We're not journalists, so it's not like we're out there hitting the streets trying to find the story. Or
SPEAKER_00:fact-checking or anything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was a curated art project.
SPEAKER_00:And that was one of our struggles initially because I want it to be in our project. I was like, no templates, no this. It was taking so long to complete. You're trying to recreate the wheel. Yeah, every time, every magazine, completely different. And Zach's like, we need templates. 26 different wheels. Yeah. And no buyers. Yeah, I came around to that pretty quickly, maybe after the first year was like, okay, yes, we should probably decide on these things. Last year was the first year we didn't put out a new issue. But we plan on doing something this year. It's 10 years. It's still one of the most fun things we do. But it's a completely passionate project at this point. We tried to initially monetize it. But then we never wanted it to lose, like, again, that project feel. We can do whatever we want.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It just didn't make sense.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But it's a fantastic marketing piece for us. I think we just got to the point where we had so many opportunities and gigs and things on the table already that it's like making another marketing piece for us and the people who are in it seems like it would just take time away from other things that could help more.
SPEAKER_00:Have a bigger impact.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:See, I don't know that we've ever... Have we ever put out four issues a year?
SPEAKER_01:I thought you were going to say, I don't know if we've ever failed.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, no. I don't know that we've... I think we did. We probably have put out four issues in one year, but it's a rarity to get. So that's why I think we stopped saying quarterly. And we just... I don't even know. I don't think we use a term. There's no word for
SPEAKER_01:replacement.
SPEAKER_00:No. Just a published magazine. It's just a magazine. It comes out when
SPEAKER_01:we want it to. When we need it to. When the world needs it most, it appears.
SPEAKER_00:Also, I wanted to ask, what's y'all's overhead like? I imagine it's rent. And then what does it take to keep this place up?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You should see my spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was going to say. It's
SPEAKER_01:insane.
SPEAKER_00:I went over so
SPEAKER_01:much of this. Yeah. So we're ending our lease here. in June and trying to find another space. So we're pitching it around. So throughout that process, I had to pull all of our numbers from like 2021 until now. And I divided them per like revenue stream, per section of the business. And I mean, yeah, a lot of it is just rent.
SPEAKER_00:It's
SPEAKER_01:rent, payroll. And then there's not a lot of maintenance, other overhead. which is pretty great if we have months where we don't do very much. It's just a lot of expenses and cost of goods sold when we do a project. So we've been very fortunate to collect this amazing community around us that we can activate whenever we want to, just as far as contractors go. Super talented people that you can bring in to solve any problem. And so that's kind of our day-to-day is figuring out, okay, what's... What's on the dock for this month? What's the impactful thing that we can do and who can we bring in to solve that problem? And then all of the expenses start filing in. But yeah, on the month to month, it's mostly just rent.
SPEAKER_00:Rent, payroll. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So what do you think is the biggest barrier for artists in Austin right now? There are quite a few. I mean, money is always a hindrance and will always be. I was just at the arts commission meeting Monday. and one of the arts commissioners, Heidi Schmalbach. Can you explain what the commission is? Sure. The arts commission, one each council member. I think there's 13 districts. in Austin, but each council member nominates someone to be a part of the commission. This is how it works with most commissions. So someone probably that's running an arts organization or an artist in their own right, have a certain level of experience and professionalism and are invested in Austin. So there's council members from all these districts that are on the arts commission that all volunteer. I think they're four-year terms and And every month there's a meeting, a public meeting. Anybody can go. You get updates on what's going on with the grant funding from the Cultural Arts Division. You get updates on the art in public places. So they kind of, they work with staff, but they're not working for the city. Again, they're unpaid. So they're almost like the community liaisons. And then anybody can present. So there's always new topics coming up. They get to advise city council on any matters that pertain to the arts in Austin. So Heidi Schmalbach was mentioning scaffolding in a term of like seeing how you can succeed as a business here and how you can make it from you can step from like one point to the next. And in Austin and especially even how our grant system works here, how we don't have that. Like, okay, you're an emerging artist. What's the next thing you can do to get to the next level? And then how do you get here? And then how do you get to work on a million dollar budget for the recent Art in Public Places call? What happens is like there's this gap. And so you have community organizations like ours as well that are trying to fill that void. But it's a lot of work. You know, no one can do it on their own. So all of us are almost like doing this work and it's becoming... And it's hard to have the capacity. And so and then you see established organizations that also are running out of funding or or their space gets taken from them or whatnot. So then as a younger organization, you go, OK, well, I'm not going to make it. So, again, there's like there is a little bit of a lack of a system of how do I jump from this point to this point? Right. And what are the steps I could take to get there? We see it all the time with Art in Public Places calls. So there used to be Tempo, which was like the temporary public art that you could make. It was a little bit more of a mentorship. Now, the Trail Conservancy is more in charge of that, but it's still kind of like regaining its strength. So you have all these calls come out from Art in Public Places that are for mostly big budgets. So you're And then you have artists that want to apply here, but they can't understand how to utilize that budget. And then they also don't feel prepared to do that.
SPEAKER_01:They don't have the access to the right pieces. Because a lot of the time it's like, oh, now you have to work with an engineer and an architect. And they're like...
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Which one? Like, oh, that's for you to figure out. You got the contract.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you get support from staff, but it's still, there's so many projects on the docket that you, yeah, you have to have an understanding of how public art works.
SPEAKER_01:And you're likely going to lose that project to somebody who's gone through this process before and has that knowledge and has those connections because that's just way easier.
SPEAKER_00:And becomes a silo. Yeah. Yeah. So then you don't have as many new people kind of becoming a part of the system and growing. Yeah. And so your choices become fewer. And then again, people feel like, well, how do I get to that next step? I mean, it's again, the grants, the way the grants work now are not a bad way, but they were also talking about like micro grants, like the lowest grant you can get Nexus, which used to be twice a year. And it's now once a year is$5,000. It's to produce an event. Most artists aren't skilled or knowledgeable about what it takes to produce an event. It's a really big ordeal, but you know, you used to have community initiatives. You could get$1,500, you'd get$2,500 and it would be more frequent. So it's like, what about having, maybe it's less money initially, but it's more frequent and you can kind of scale up to that 5,000 and then scale up to 10,000 with Elevate. And even as a for-profit organization, we can now only apply for Elevate. We've got the full amount this year in the second year they've had it. There's nowhere else for us to go but down unless we become a nonprofit. We cannot get the high. Yeah, we can't sustain it. So now we've hit the top. Cool. Either we get that same amount or like, you know, the slight increases they do or we go down and there's always going to be new people applying. So it's sad that there's no like very clear path here. And I think that's a big hurdle. I
SPEAKER_01:think the city really is only like maybe 10% of people not the problem, but like the general ecosystem, that money should only be like 10%. And that's what it feels like Texas and like the government wants, you know, because like capitalism and if there's a void, then business will pop up and fulfill that void and make money doing that. So there's that very much like, you know, we're not going to give too many handouts situation here in this state. But the problem is, There's a ton of like big corporations and monopolies that provide zero support and zero funding and zero philanthropy. And they do nothing but take. And there's been no unified call to ask them for support. And I'm sure they love that. Like, don't come in my building. Don't ask me for money.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, y'all. I wanted to take a moment to thank you for listening. This podcast success depends on listeners like you. If you haven't already, please consider becoming a Patreon member. For$3 a month, you'll have access to exclusive content like Studio Time episodes where I interview artists about the value of their work. You can find the link below in the show notes. Is there like a common incentive that other locations use?
SPEAKER_01:I think there's a lot of them, but I think most of the ones that we've researched have come from city initiatives, right? I think there's a big disconnect between the city of Austin and the, what is it, the county? Yeah, the county is, it seems like, who gives all of the tax breaks and things and would have the power maybe to... ask for something like, you know, 1% is still a lot, but like a 1% give back program that a lot of other states have to fund arts and beautification projects. And I know they built that into development for art in public places, and that's a great way to fund those projects. But yeah, just, you know, some sort of authority that has the ability to ask for that philanthropic support. And I just don't, I don't think Austin specifically has a ton of private and people who are willing to put their money on the line to become a patron of the arts and to give large amounts of money without expecting a ton in return besides just the cultural value that it provides. And yeah, I think a lot of people have relied on Austin to just generate that itself because it's always been such a creative city. So it's been interesting to see that. And then that all goes back to if you're trying... as a small business to check all these boxes and find out where money comes from, you eventually burn out. And at that point you're, you feel like a failure, even if what you were doing was beautiful and creative and awesome and like brought people together and you like, you created everything that has value except for money. Like if it's easy to feel burnt out from that. And we've seen that with just like space and, as an issue. Like not being able to find a place to host your organization and to host events and to bring people together. It's like, even if you had everything else, all of the checklist is checked off except for space. It's like, well, that's rough. Too bad. Everything's expensive now. So
SPEAKER_00:I've been hearing that a lot.
SPEAKER_01:That's yeah. That's been the conversation for our entire existence here. 10 years now of people losing spaces and Yeah. Just like especially the nonprofits that weren't able to save up enough to purchase. And then they eventually get kicked out. And then they or they the admin ages out to the point where they're like, I'm not making enough to retire on. Like, I, you know, I got to scramble now. And even if they were doing a great job and providing an amazing service to the community, it still feels like you couldn't make it happen. I don't want to say you failed because you didn't, but. it's like, where do you go?
SPEAKER_00:How
SPEAKER_01:do you move on from that?
SPEAKER_00:I think we shifted our focus, maybe just like even a couple of years into our business to really be on sustainability and larger picture. And as an artist, it's hard. You're very much focused in your own practice. And that's why I try to encourage, we try to like connect these resources with artists directly and kind of show them like, hey, you don't think it's impacting you, but it is impacting you. And more than that, it's impacting the entire community And therefore we'll have, you know, that will affect you. So that's why we have all these conversations and we go to these meetings and we do the research because we were, we're trying to always see the bigger picture of it. And it's even looking at states outside of Texas that have lost funding, like Florida lost all their arts funding on the state level because the governor there. And that could very much happen in Texas. Yeah. I don't know. Do you want to talk a little bit about the federal freeze that happening right now? What do you think that will do for Boston? Who's getting federal money? I don't know that I have enough expertise to talk to it too much. And it's also just like 24 hours. Yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Everything's shitty and the country's over. No, no, no. Yeah. No, I don't know. I don't know. All of this stuff is so it's so new. Like you said, it's like you kind of just have to wait for it to shake out. And I don't know. I
SPEAKER_00:read a really good thing.
SPEAKER_01:Unfortunately, how much we can do on this ground level. It's like trying to find an organization of our size. It can only be accountable for the community. Yeah. You know, it's like that's where I think we try to hold our focus. There are people who are relying on us to provide certain services and events and things where they can make money and they can make connections. And it's it's hard to see. Like a future beyond that. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I read something yesterday because I've been getting text messages and, you know, friends reaching out, too, because we're all we're all at least people in my circle in the same boat. Everybody's it's hard right now. But I read this and it was from sociologist Jennifer Walter about what is happening in the country right now. But I'll only pick out a few things. But it was saying. Feeling overwhelmed is the point. When you recognize this, you regain some power. Take breaks, process. This is a marathon. Practice going slow. Wait 48 hours before reacting to new policies. The urgent clouds the important. Initial reporting often misses context. So I think to just let me process and they give other really good ways to. I like the wait 48 hours before you react. Yeah, that's why I was like, I don't know. Like obviously bad initials always like. That's a horrible, that's awful. Yeah. But that's what it's supposed to do. Exactly. It's a shock and awe. Yeah, they called it, it was like shock agency or something like that. Like that's the purpose of just like barreling down these things right now on us.
SPEAKER_01:There's a certain power and controlling the emotion and then like focusing on what you know you're good at and you know helps people around you. Because yeah, a lot of that is like you know, you get shocked and then you feel like, oh no, I can't do anything. I'm powerless. And then you don't do anything. And then that doesn't help anybody.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that's how you like tear community apart.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Which is what they want. But it was kind of like even finding people in your own circles that could focus on certain things so that you guys don't, you individually don't have to focus on everything. So almost like, yeah, what are you? And then coming together and sharing that information.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's a lot.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Needless to say, I'm going to wait 48 hours for my
SPEAKER_01:response. Yeah, ask us again 48
SPEAKER_00:hours. So tomorrow. I've definitely already ranted about it. I've reacted. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know y'all are figuring this out, but what are some of the goals that you've been talking about for 2025? Yeah, we have some conversations to have. Zach keeps reminding me. First would be, so direction of the business in terms of space, where... Are we going to be, can we get a more permanent resolution and who would we be with in that space? So that's a big goal, answering that question.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Find something
SPEAKER_00:affordable, useful
SPEAKER_01:with a good landlord who cares about what we're doing and sees the value in it beyond strict dollars.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And something that's like actually a long-term lease, you know, like five years or more.
SPEAKER_00:How long is this one?
SPEAKER_01:Two. We had two years and then we renewed it for two years and then it got sold. And so, yeah, the ideal is like a five-year lease because then all the stuff that you do to build out and like customize it, it feels like such a burden to do that again every two years, going back to that burnout. But if you can create a space that's well-designed and works and functions, you know, almost like that template where... People can come in. And that's what we focused on last year was like creating a template so that people could rent from us at a low cost and we could help them create like a really, really great gallery show or a really great concert. And so like adding almost like mentorship piece into it through the template made it way easier for us to do more while personally being able to accomplish more outside of that. So I think keeping that up and like, you know, iterating on that wherever we end up next would be. Amazing.
SPEAKER_00:We're always evaluating all the sectors of our business and trying to figure out, it's not just money, but it's just like, yeah, which ones are most impactful? Which ones cost us more than they make? Which ones do we really love doing? Which ones are sustainable? So we do that every quarter at least. This year's our 10-year anniversary. So really wanting to celebrate that in a way, still figuring out what that could look like too. Do y'all think y'all would make 10 years? No, I don't. Well, like not
SPEAKER_01:like. I only threatened to quit like twice a year, every year from the beginning.
SPEAKER_00:Sounds so awful. It's not like I was like, we'll never make it. No, no, no. It
SPEAKER_01:was like, I'm going to go do something else
SPEAKER_00:in two years. We shouldn't have long term plans. I mean, I didn't I didn't have any plan. So anything I could have accomplished for 10 years is great.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because I. I like to switch around what I do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there's a lot of like key milestones this year that we can celebrate in different ways. Yeah, I think we'll have some sort of event series going through it. Whether there's like, you know, I think we got our party at the People's House. I think will be a good collaboration version of it. We're doing that City Hall event again, which was awesome last year. But I think that'll be like a cool milestone for us as like a, you know, org that just hit 10 years. And then maybe something at the very end of the year, because technically we started the business in 2015. But the first issue of the magazine actually came out January 1st, 2016. So New Year's, having some sort of New Year's party where we launch whatever the... current generation of Almost Real Things publication is. This is,
SPEAKER_00:again, a Zach idea that I just heard of and I'm like.
SPEAKER_01:We're pitching
SPEAKER_00:it. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Live pitch. So anyway, that's confirmed. Definitely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely happening. And then Touch the Art, I mentioned. So we got the Elevate grant for Touch the Art. This is the third year we're doing that program. I've expanded it. That was really like my thing and and what I put a lot of my focus into. So it's a mentorship program as well as this immersive experience so that the open call is going on right now and we'll continue. We'll start that programming up in a couple of weeks. Yeah, that's exciting. Zach, you mentioned the burnout. Do you have any... Do you do anything to make sure that doesn't happen? No,
SPEAKER_01:absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00:Zach doesn't? I don't know... Zach is like a very rare breed that doesn't get anxiety or doesn't show anxiety. I really honestly don't think you get anxiety in the same way. So just is always working and loves it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, there's so many things that I'm excited about. And I love like the opportunity to turn my focus to any one of them at any point in time. So I think that helps is like having always having an outlet, but the outlet is still within me. the umbrella of almost real things. So I'm technically not being unproductive. I'm just being differently productive. And I feel like that becomes annoying sometimes. But if that's what prevents me from burning out and having anxiety, then that's great.
SPEAKER_00:And again, it's like new ideas, I feel like for you, because sometimes it's like, I stayed up all night last night and I have this giant pitch and it's probably something we won't do. But that was like a way to shift your focus and get all the things out of your head.
SPEAKER_01:In December, that was a mini-mart idea that I wanted to start at 2324 Lobby. I wanted to see how much we could get done with$20,000. And then I was like, okay, well, that's not the focus.
SPEAKER_00:That's maybe how we bought the bus. That's
SPEAKER_01:how we bought the bus.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was literally a text on a morning that said... I read, Zach said, I found a bus. It's in Houston. I'm going to go get it today. And then didn't answer my text. So I'm going to go look at it.
SPEAKER_01:Oh,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. And then bought it, though, the same day. But you know what that meant. You know what that meant. Yeah. That
SPEAKER_01:was the second one that I looked at. So you knew that it was top
SPEAKER_00:of mind. I knew we were looking for a bus.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I didn't know the size of the bus until I saw this one, which is, it's not a school bus. If anybody's wondering, it's a 45-foot coach bus from the city of Or from Houston. Yeah. But yeah, that was, I think we had one conversation on the phone when he was seeing it and kind of just being like, it's really good. And I knew, there's always a point I'm like, there's nothing I could say that would convince him it wasn't a good idea. So I just go, okay, do your thing. That's the thing about good ideas.
SPEAKER_01:They're good.
SPEAKER_00:So Zach, has it been confirmed that it was a good idea?
SPEAKER_01:Oh,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. I do confirm it was a good
SPEAKER_01:idea. Yeah. So we had been doing bus tours and renting buses for the Austin Studio Tour is when we started doing it. We did it for like the West when they had that and did for East. Then we did a couple others that were like for private parties. Natalie was giving tours of Boston. murals on the east side. I was giving tours from the Capitol to Sixth Street, just walking tours at that point. So we had that like knowledge of what people wanted to hear and what they were interested in. Turn that into the bus model. Couldn't really make any money to keep the tickets affordable while renting a bus. There wasn't just Like there's not a lot of margin in there.
SPEAKER_00:Rentals are really expensive. Just like with space. Like whenever we rent a venue, it's the majority of the money.
SPEAKER_01:And we understand that there's like a lot of maintenance that goes into, you know, keeping a vehicle like that. But it made so much more sense to buy one than rent again for the two or three gigs that we had in 2022 when we got it. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. It's made its money back. It was worth it was worthwhile. And yeah. And so and then it's also cool because it's gotten us to the point where people will rent the bus, but they want more than one and we don't have more than one. So then we partner with the people that we had rented with before and can scale to have a whole fleet for. We have like a conference coming up end of next month. So they're they're renting three through us and we still get to manage this experience together. of it and create that like fun, almost real things vibe through it all. But
SPEAKER_00:it's a great plan B too. Like if we lose our space, all of our spaces, we own this bus. We can go fully mobile. Not the plan, but a good plan B.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we'll have to like...
SPEAKER_00:There's a lifeline. Outfit it
SPEAKER_01:with armor and stuff.
SPEAKER_00:We could go places on that bus. We're going places.
SPEAKER_01:Oh,
SPEAKER_00:yeah.
SPEAKER_01:They can't stop us.
SPEAKER_00:We're coming.
SPEAKER_01:We don't drive the bus, by the way. We have drivers that we've become really good friends with. But every time we're driving, it's like this sense of power. It's like we're a bus.
SPEAKER_00:It's very funny. It's a magic carpet ride. If I see this from the outside, which I rarely do because I'm on the bus, but the times I've driven my own car and seen it, I'm like, this is crazy. This is so weird.
SPEAKER_01:Our drivers are so funny, too. It's crazy the things that people in much smaller cars will do in front of a bus. And the conversations are always so entertaining. We've never been in a dangerous situation, but people will just cut you off and do... the most reckless things and you're like, I'm in a bus. You did that? Yeah. This thing is 400,000 pounds of pure power. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's also on a city bus. You probably wouldn't get hit by a city bus. What happens again? Oh, I don't know. Or it's like maybe I'm paying a UT. If you get hit by a UT bus, you get free tuition or something. Oh my gosh. I gotta go walk around. They educate
SPEAKER_01:your wounds away?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. I gotta go walk around campus. Not campus, the streets. It's not that kind of bus. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No. Yeah. There's no perks.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_01:We could give them art.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. If
SPEAKER_01:they got hit. Yeah. But it would be their fault because our drivers are the best.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. A hundred percent. So I have what I call rapid fire questions. Okay. But that seems to stress people out. So don't stress out. Just, you know, kind of the first thing that comes to mind.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So Natalie, what's on your bedside table right now? rocks like a light sound machine and books what kind of books i'm reading three in the process of reading three one is called breath about breathing exercises and studies of breathing yeah one is breath making air something is that the full title it's just breath okay
SPEAKER_01:That's the sequel,
SPEAKER_00:probably. One is a book on Buddhism. And then one is Jerry Salt's Art is Life. Oh, yeah. An art critic book. I'm always like half into many books. He was just in town, wasn't he? I saw him at the Blanton speak. Yeah. It was very interesting, funny talk. So bought the book. Signed it. Nice. That's cool. Yeah. What about you, Zach? What's on your bedside table?
SPEAKER_01:Flamingo.
SPEAKER_00:Like a tall one?
SPEAKER_01:No, a flamingo koozie.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:But it's on this platform that I bought and it levitates based on electromagnet and it lights up.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:It's pretty
SPEAKER_00:cool. Is it pink? Yes. Okay. I'm pointing to it. It's just like that one,
SPEAKER_01:but that one doesn't float.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_01:So mine's way cooler.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that floats in water.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. It floats in water, but it doesn't float in air.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Do you like flamingos?
SPEAKER_01:I love flamingos. Yeah. I think they're really cool.
SPEAKER_00:Are you familiar with them? It's Top Hat now, I think. No, is it? Yeah. On 22-22, that used to be all Flamingos. The place that used to have, like, from 360, like, all the way up to there on that hill.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, wow. I don't think I ever saw that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I don't think it was around 2015.
SPEAKER_01:Where'd they all go?
SPEAKER_00:They sold out to the... Is it Top Hat? Is that, like, kind of chain with burgers?
SPEAKER_01:Top
SPEAKER_00:Notch? Top Golf? No. No. That's not burgers. What?
SPEAKER_01:Topgolf? I'm sure they serve burgers there.
SPEAKER_00:Chain with burgers.
SPEAKER_01:Top.
SPEAKER_00:Does it have the word top in it? I think so. Top dog. I don't know. People like bringing their kids
SPEAKER_01:there. Yeah. Burger King.
SPEAKER_00:No. Let's just keep going now. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So which artist do you have your eye on right now? I need to look up. names. There are two I met at Hanger Art Studios. You can look them up. Yeah. During the East Austin Studio Tours. One of them paints such detailed pictures of garbage of like the things people leave on the side of the road. Yeah. Which I loved. And then the other one, he was the other artist. He was using a lot of texture. So I thought he'd be great for touch art. And he does really muted colors. If I can find the names, I will. And Zach can look it up. Obviously, there's plenty of friends. We just were very lucky to come back from New Orleans to go get a tour with some other Austin artists and New Orleans artists of the Prospect Triennial from the executive director. So it's a three-year process, but they're commissioning artists from all over and having them build installations and public art and pieces that are placed all over New New Orleans, you know, in galleries and museums outside, in bars. It's very, very cool.
SPEAKER_01:Hannah Shalu was an artist who was part of Prospect Six in New Orleans. And she was in the contemporary museum of New Orleans and created this incredible like pond installation just in the middle of like a wood floor museum. You know, it had running water pipes and all sorts of live plants, plants that she had created.
SPEAKER_00:She made the paper.
SPEAKER_01:She made the paper for the leaves of the plants. So it's like full circle. I guess it's still a real plant.
SPEAKER_00:There's
SPEAKER_01:pipes everywhere from the beginning.
SPEAKER_00:I love making paper.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Worked with a perfumer to create a scent that was all part of the meaning of the piece was kind of like, you know, nature reclaiming.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's like when humans were gone, what would be left were these like very industrial parts and then nature reclaiming. Yes, it's
SPEAKER_01:like trash in the piece, but it still looks like beautiful. You know, I would live there in her little pond. But I think, yeah, she said the scent had like methane in it or like
SPEAKER_00:very small.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like small traces of whatever chemicals because it's like, you know, we're going to leave a mark for a little bit. Once we're all gone. Nail polish. Yeah, there's some nail polish. But I thought that piece was super inspiring. And I was like, I got to build one of these in my house.
SPEAKER_00:During the awesome studio tours, we went to Hanger Art Studios. Ella Nielsen mostly runs that space. But there were two artists there. I hadn't seen their work before. Jason Webb. He does these like incredibly detailed, you know, watercolor, I think, gouache of the trash that people are leaving outside. And he has this large painting of like a junkyard. And it is one of the most detailed pieces I've ever seen. I can't imagine how long it took and the tiniest of brushes. And then Anthony Vaughn Patterson, his work is more abstract, geometric. had a lot of texture to it. I thought he could be a good fit for Touch the Arts. These two artists, if you put them next to each other, such different styles. So I don't know that I have a style I love. I was just drawn to both of them. Again, one more minimal and bold. And then this other one that's extremely detailed. But he was using a lot of negative space as well. So those two... In Austin recently, I'd like to have conversations with them. If you're listening.
SPEAKER_01:Hit my DMs.
SPEAKER_00:First heard it here. Okay. What is your favorite place to eat in Austin? There's so many. Okay. I'll say we usually love to do some late night business meetings, business in quotes. No, those
SPEAKER_01:are business legally.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're right. Sorry. Business meetings. Me, Zach, and Joey Cruz, who's like another member of Almost Real Things, at Taqueria Sarandinas on Riverside. It has to be that one. It has to be the Riverside one. They have the best salsa. We get so much chips and salsa. Although now,
SPEAKER_01:I'm
SPEAKER_00:just going to say, they started charging for extra chips.
SPEAKER_01:It's okay. It's worth it.
SPEAKER_00:It's worth it. That's fine. It was a tragedy when we went there last. For the amount
SPEAKER_01:of chips that we eat.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's a lot. They put the chip back on the, or the tray on the table.
SPEAKER_00:And we order more when they put it out. In 30 seconds, those are gone. It's your fault.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think
SPEAKER_00:it's our fault. It might. Our motto is mas jeeps, like just to cross the board. So Taquerias Arninas on Riverside is one of my favorites.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. I mean, that's, that's the business answer.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Right there. If you'd like to sponsor us, Taqueria.
SPEAKER_01:Serving Autentico Mexicano since 19... For a while. 96. Okay. I'm going to look it up now.
SPEAKER_00:Where's their other location? Oh, they have like 17 of them, but I don't know if they're
SPEAKER_01:all the same owner.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's hard to say because somewhere like Taqueria is around us. Pretty much... Zach, Joey, and I will go anywhere with a lot of chips and salsa. Are they 24 hours? Or why are they up so late? No, they're late. I don't know. I mean, they're on Riverside. 3 a.m. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Most of the time, pretty late. It's because they know.
SPEAKER_00:They know we're coming.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there are kind
SPEAKER_00:of people, for sure. Well, that's been a theme after COVID is a lot of 24-hour places aren't 24 hours. I know. 24, diner, hello. God, it's
SPEAKER_01:like, rename yourself. So embarrassing. Figure it out.
SPEAKER_00:And Magnolia? Yeah. When you said, like, Late nights, I can only think of maybe like three places that you would be going to, which is weird. Yeah, it's sad because I'm a night person for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Saps is dope. Yeah. Love saps.
SPEAKER_00:And it's good. I don't know, do you like Thai food? I love Thai food. Yeah, it's good. What was the other places? I think they were all Thai places. Well, Star Seeds was good, but you know, 35, expansion just moved them. I don't know if they're having a new location yet. I know. I need to find all these new places. I know. Like Texas Thrift moved. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The Rocks. Rocks. Yeah. I don't know where they are. They did move. I just don't know where they are. Mostly, yeah. Mostly taco places is where Oye's Great Truck, Ancisa Chavez, Las Trancas, El Primo over here. So what did you find, Zach?
SPEAKER_01:Arredinas opened June 7th, 1999.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, Mr. Ignacio Sevilla and Miss Rosie Sevilla. Must cheaps.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Our last words.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I hope I can have the memory to make that my last phrase.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so my last question always is, do you think artists need to struggle for their art?
SPEAKER_01:No, no one needs to struggle. You need to learn, but you don't need to struggle.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, struggle's a hard one because it's like struggle financially, struggle mentally, struggle physically. You gotta put people down
SPEAKER_01:so that they learn, you know? You gotta smother them and make sure they don't make any money and abuse them. And if they grow after that, it's fine. Yeah, and if they grow after that... I think there's just inherent struggle
SPEAKER_00:in human existence. I
SPEAKER_01:guess, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like, inevitably, everyone will struggle to make good art. Struggle might not be the right word. But I do think being thoughtful and intentional, and I think that comes with experience, which again, whatever prompts you to have those experiences. It's
SPEAKER_01:like having the confidence to invest in yourself and know that you're not, you don't have to struggle, but you have to know what you want enough to go get it and like to learn how to get it. And I think, I don't know, for us, it feels like that was our college experience. Yeah. I think that was a lot of like trying to figure out what we were doing and what we wanted to focus on. And then in college, it felt like we blossomed in a certain way where it was like, oh, you know, I found things that I'm really excited about. And while I'm not very good at them at this point, I want to be good at them. And then you're surrounded by people who are also not very good at them. But together, like, I'm sure we would have called it a struggle at that point, but it wasn't like... bad.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I don't think. That's also kind of bravery to like work on something you're bad at, like having the courage to do something you're bad at.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then you see all these people who are like doing whatever skill really well. And you're like, oh, you know, just the understanding that they were probably in the same place that you were. And the only way they ever came out of that struggle was practice and knowledge and meeting cool people and having good opportunities and making money.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's all I have. Thanks for talking to me, y'all. Thank you so much. This was so much fun. Have a
SPEAKER_01:good time.
SPEAKER_00:Creative Money ATX
