In this episode we discuss back-to-school food programs in the Farm Bill, have a magical conversation with a food innovation wizard, unpack sustainable food packaging and countdown the top foods that’ll be hardest to find in the rest of 2023. Stick around for our 'a la carte' episode with Chef Mike to hear additional insights into the dynamic food industry.
In this episode we discuss back-to-school food programs in the Farm Bill, have a magical conversation with a food innovation wizard, unpack sustainable food packaging and countdown the top foods that’ll be hardest to find in the rest of 2023. Stick around for our 'a la carte' episode with Chef Mike to hear additional insights into the dynamic food industry.
Back to school lunches, seaweed as the food packaging savior, disappearing mimosas in a conversation with a food innovation wizard. Those are all the fixins on this episode of State of the Plate. I'm hungry. All right, everybody, welcome back to episode five, A state of the Plate. We're your hosts, Brandon Miller. Shred, Shred Miller. And I'm Rochelle. Ripped now. Yeah, I forgot. I gave myself that moniker last time you did it. Brandon Shred Miller. All right, but don't forget that the next time, I gotta remember to do that. Thank you guys for joining us once again. We're super excited about the topics. We have to talk about some really great stuff, including an interview with a food innovation master Chef Mike. So we're excited to talk to him as well as a whole host of other stuff throughout the food system in the business of food. Before we get into that, Rochelle, how have you been have been well, trying to enjoy summer before fall hits. Yeah. How are things going with the business, the grains business and whatever you guys got going on? Good. It's happened. Have some fun collaborations that we've been, you know, stirring up. Brewing up. Yeah, I did. Yes. So yeah, maybe we can have one of the Brewers on the podcast in the future that we're working with, coming up with some cool flavor combos. Absolutely. Are you allowed to talk about who you're working with or is that hush hush? I don't have any restrictions and it's public. They actually just launched a couple of beers. So if you're ever headed up to the door County area, there is a brewery called Sway Brewing and Blending, and they come up with like the coolest flavor combos and aromatics, right? Because it's the whole drinking experience, the one that they just launched, actually using some of our oats that we grow on our farm also has dandelions. So they hand harvested dandelions. No kidding. Yeah, it looked. Have you tried it? I haven't yet. They literally just launched it this last week. Are you a beer fan? I I'm against a kind of sewer and I'm all over unique flavor combos. And you know, the experience that's sort of. I'm also like, you know, into craft brews and stuff too. And I like the the trend is because there's so many of them out there, it's like, how do we be different? You know, how do we show up with a unique twist on an IPA or, you know, any other kind of stouts porters? It's not just, hey, here's an oatmeal stout anymore because everyone has an oatmeal stout. It's like, here's an oatmeal sunflower stout or whatever, you know? So it's like nutty new. Yeah, How do we stand out, you know, And that's we'll talk to Chef Mike about this a little bit later is like the trends of you have to have something unique in what you're doing these days because there's so much out there, you know, it's like, how do you grab people's attention? So totally. Another thing I've noticed, too, in that whole brewing space is there's a lot of collaborations happening. Yeah. So these brewers will get together for, you know, a long weekend, hang out, probably drink some brews. Right. And they're teaming up to come up with like a paired combo. So, you know somebody from Milwaukee might be partnering with somebody in your county, for example. So there's all these collaborations then they share in that product and the publicity then. So totally a different approach from anything I've seen before. But. Martha Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like what's going on with climate smart? Like partnerships, you know, and expanding reach and expanding capabilities based on, you know, who you work with. So, yeah, cool. That's awesome. You really need to hook that interview up. So that they sound like an interesting brewery. And now that's a destination. That's a reason for me to go to door test for sure. Brewed cool. All right. Well, without further ado, I suppose, let's get into our first topic. What are we? What are we chewing on first? Back to school. Can you believe it's almost that time? It's scary. And then we're starting, I think, a little bit earlier. I'm not sure if that's statewide across school districts, but in my school district, we're starting in August when your kids start. My wife is a teacher and I should know this, but I. I don't. And but I think it's is it after Labor Day? After Labor Day? Okay. First thing is changing. District dependent. Yeah. My kids are headed back or my son is headed here in August. So big kindergartner this year. But we recently did school registration. Really? Yeah. How did that go? It went well. It was like mixed emotions, right? Picture day? Yeah. Talking to the, you know, school service, food service. So I think that ties in. Is this the last one we're sending off to school or you got more first, the first one setting after school. So it's hard. Yeah. Hard for you. It can be good. It loves school. So I'm very thankful for that. Great. I was the one who got the honor of dropping both our girls off for their first day of school. And it was the tale of two girls, for sure. Okay, First one was Let's go to school. I'm good. She was like, off playing in the corner and like, before she even gave me a hug goodbye. And then the second one was just latched on and it was like, the hardest thing I've ever done. It was like, Well, maybe that's a little bit of hyperbole, but it was just like crying, like clinging and didn't want to go but pulled at the heartstrings. Yeah. So anyways, back to school. In terms of food, it means back to school lunches. So what's going on with with school lunches these days? There's a whole gamut, right? Because we're coming off of the COVID 19 relief programs where food was basically provided by the school districts and with federal funds. And now because of that, COVID money has wrapped up or, you know, those programs have lapsed school districts are now deciding to make a choice. And even some of the states are making that at the state level. So really interesting to think about how that's going to impact local families. But then, you know, nationwide, what does that mean? Because we know that food insecurity is a real problem and something that will ultimately tie into the farm bill, right as that new one is being drafted. We'll probably have a little bit more of an update here this fall. Maybe we can invite our friends from Naza back to speak on that and how that's taking shape. Because once a draft comes together, movement will start happening conversations, negotiations, all of that stuff, fun stuff will start taking place. Yeah, I mean on government time, but yeah, it'll move. Yeah. Right, right. There's always that. Yeah. So yeah, you mentioned food scarcity is a problem. One in eight children in America live in households without consistent access to adequate food is a stat that's insane, right? Over 10% of kids and that's coming from the School Nutrition Association. So like big picture, right? They're looking at what that means. Even in the last farm bill, the one that was the 2014 farm bill, they had in there a pilot project that allowed schools to to use entitlement dollars to get fresh, unprocessed produce, to work with local farms. Yeah, get the real good stuff into their schools because we know, you know, dollars are tight in public schools everywhere. So access to that fresh produce, which is typically more expensive than, you know, other stuff that you can get that's mass produced and maybe doesn't have the nutritional value. So important to have that in schools, especially with young kids, you have to have that quality food. So to have some of those dollars that came from the 2014 farm bill that were able to be used in that way is really great. And there's legislation now and, you know, certain senators from certain states are trying to get some of that stuff put into the 2023 farm bill as well. So we can continue to do those great things for for those kids and build off of, you know, some of the programs that were established in in COVID time. Right. And really, you know, continue to prime that pump and that that flow of getting folks regionally or locally into the school district. I know here in Wisconsin, the State Department of Agriculture tries to make those connections as well, which is great. But sometimes it just takes a little bit more effort to find the right people and to make those connections yourselves. Like I said, I went to my kid's school registration and I stopped by the food service table just to say hi. What do I need to know? You know, this is our first year and the lunch program and, you know, just picking the brains of these food service professionals, you know, what's happening? What are you looking for? How do you deal with, like kids with allergies? And the lady that I spoke with from a larger regional food service service spoke to reduced sugar and salt. So that's probably why we're seeing, you know, the chocolate milk come up for debate again and being removed from schools, which is super unfortunate in my opinion, because as we know, milk has nine essential nutrients that really give those kids the nutrient dense, in this case, a beverage that they need to keep fueling their body is as they learn and they sit there throughout the day. But also they spoke to working with these local farms. So there's a sweet corn farmer in our area that they partner with. So all the kids are able to enjoy fresh, sweet corn as part of their meal. Same thing with apples the States. And maybe this is broader does a national apple. I think it is a national national apple crunch. So all the kids take a big bite of a fresh apple just to really support that healthy eating initiative. So and made me think like who else in the community could be part of that program? How do we connect those dots and make sure these kids are getting some of those fresh, local, nutrient dense foods? And she spoke about testing. So they take that back to their their headquarters in Minnesota and do the nutrient density testing. Wow. I thought that was super cool. Yeah, that's cool. You don't hear about that. So that just makes me you know, it gives me a flashback to the lunches that we had as kids at school. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm guessing they're not necessarily eating the same things with these new guidelines, the nutrient and testing and whatnot. So and I didn't know that they went to those kinds of levels to write, to learn about, you know, what are we feeding our kids as. I guess that's refreshing to to hear that that's happening in a lot of places because sometimes you'll be on the Internet and you'll be like, This is what we're serving kids. And it's basically like mush noodles with the Kraft singles just slapped on top. You know, it's like macaroni and cheese Day or whatever. Yeah, this is really what we're feeding our kids. And it's so funny to hear that in these places that have that adequate funding to do those kinds of programs that they're they're doing them to, you know, to the fullest extent. And because I mean that in the lab type stuff, I would have never expected that. I love it right there that that's great. And then giving exposure to different flavors, too. So one of the things that they shared was that they, you know, take a seasonal fruit, they mix it with a grain and then also throw in like an herb just to give the kids exposure to some of this. So I'm thinking, okay, a parfait, right? Super easy, very approachable for these kids. Right. So I think that's the challenge the chefs at these food service companies have is like, how do you make it most approachable for kids who maybe picky eaters? That's the thing too. Yeah. As I'm like, how do you balance the very nutritious stuff with the stuff kids will actually eat? Because, you know, my aforementioned daughters, like, I know I know what they're eating habits are, and it's like anything healthy is not top, it's not tops on their menu, you know, it's like, how do we get more mac and cheese and chicken nuggets into ourselves, you know? So I think that is a balance. Like, you go back to the chocolate milk thing, it's like, yeah, there is a little bit of sugar in chocolate milk, but it's a way to introduce picky eaters to the other great things that are in milk. The tradeoff there might be worth it. So right. They did speak a little bit too, you know, chicken nuggets being a staple that kids do enjoy. So, you know it it is balance, right? You can't win them all. But certainly to give that exposure at a younger age I think is super positive because, you know, not every kid has got a taste for fresh basil or mint or, you know, like some of these herbs or fruits. Right. That they've never encountered. In fact, I would say the majority of kids don't have a taste. I've never heard a kid ask for Can I have basil and basil on the chicken nuggets tonight? That's little spice, you know, keep it fresh right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's some stats out there on the importance of children's diets, too, that students who eat school breakfast have been shown to achieve 17.5% higher scores on standardized math tests. And they attend one and a half more days of school per year. So it's not just about lunches. They're also trying to make it possible for kids that don't have access to a healthy breakfast in the morning to get that at school, which, you know, does show to have some benefit. And all of this is tied into this farm bill. You know, you hear the term farm bill. You think of like, oh, this is just pertains to agriculture. And no, it expands so much larger than that. It impacts food all over the spectrum, including what kids eat at school. So I think they're important and it seems like they do pay dividends in in how our youth perform. So yeah, more than half of the farm bill funds go to food programs. Yeah. And like I said earlier, you know, different states are drawing the line and saying we are going to provide free meals to these children because they're the future. And, you know, we have to have them fueled up to focus on their education because a hungry kid is not thinking properly about their schoolwork right now. They're concerned about their meal. And I think that really, you know, coming out of summer is probably a welcome relief for some of these families. You're right about that. It's so important. Like you said, it impacts so many lives. It impacts the entire food system. So looking forward to seeing how that bill comes out and what's all in it and how the dollars are are allocated. Right. Impacting us for the next five ish ish. Yeah. Ish years. Yeah. Super importance. What else do we have? I think now we can get into our conversation with Chef Mike. This is super cool. I met Mike at IFAD and just a dynamic guy. I think our listeners are going to love to hear what he's got to say. He's worked for McDonald's in their R&D and now he's working for Univer, you know, in their R&D. Having those roles. He's learned so much about food innovation trends, how to meet what companies are looking for. So that's what we talked about. I mean, it was a it was a great conversation. And I'm excited to give you guys a little bit of a taste of that right now. We're not going to play the whole interview. Yeah, but if you do want to listen to the entire interview that is available right now also. So when you're done listening to the rest of the what we're talking about here, go over there and listen to the full interview. It's totally worth it. Yeah. Be sure to subscribe and just keep us on your playlist. Yeah. All right. We're back with State of the Played, and we have a special guest today, Brandon. Yes, we do. Very excited about this one. Super excited. He's an R&D chef, brand ambassador, social media fan and just a super all around cool guy. I met him actually at Left with Mercy. We talked about that on our last State of the Plate podcast. So without further ado, our chef Mike Haracz is joining us from. So happy to be here. Thank you, chef. Mike, it's great to have you on the podcast. And usually I got to do a bunch of dishes and make the samples and ship the stuff out. So being able to relax and have a nice conversation, as always, I hear you go, Well, I'm really excited to get into a lot of the what you've been working on and what you're seeing out there in in food innovation. But before we do that, why don't you just give us a little bit of your background and sort of where you came from and what you're up to now? It's sort of that career trajectory. Sure. So again, my name is Chef Mike Haracz, and as we learned, it's pronounced just like it's spelled it's not my family just decided to go with Haracz, but I always wanted to be a chef growing up, went to culinary school. I have a degree in culinary nutrition from Johnson and Wales and Providence, Rhode Island. While I was in school, I quickly learned I don't want to be in a chef in a restaurant and got introduced to food science and product development in school upon graduation. I've been in the industry now since 2006, working for the Orville Canned Foods, culinary Sales, Support, Nation, Pizza and Foods. I did a couple of years stints as the manager of Culinary innovation for the U.S. menu at McDonald's, and then the pandemic hit. So I quickly became one of those Internet content creators and consultants. I was able to do brand partnerships, you know, start a YouTube channel. And then about a year and a half ago, I started as the Culinary development lead for a Foodology by Univar Solutions, which is a big ingredient distributor. And it's pretty awesome to have hundreds upon hundreds of ingredients at my disposal to do cool, fun R&D work, whether it's develop a prototype of a thing or work with customers to find solutions to any issues they might be having. You know, you talked about understanding what the end consumer wants. How do you get that information? Are you polling or are you just out there learning in the field or how do you get that that input? I think it's kind of all encompassing. So obviously at Foodology by Univar Solutions, we have a whole marketing team. We have, you know, industry experts, food scientists, category experts that are always kind of surveying the landscape, understanding what customers want, what issues, you know, ingredient availability. Is there a trendy ingredient or is something that maybe the opposite maybe people no longer want that ingredient in their food item? Well, we have to be very reactive to those kinds of things. So we keep up to date their will utilize any kind of resources like mental chain store guides, economic trade publications. You know, we want to do our research. That's part of the job is understanding the landscape, understanding what customers and consumers might want. And then when we go to a trade show and walk around and see what other people are doing or understanding that egg prices were going up, up, up for quite a while. So how can we offset those costs in a, you know, in a manner to be net neutral in their formulations or whatever it might be? So there are a couple different things we can do to kind of gather that information. But we are very data and customer driven. We're kind of neutral territory here in those regards. That's got to be kind of hard to do. Like I think our, you know, because everyone's like, taste is such a personal thing, you know, So it's like, you know, how do you get outside of that? One of the hard things for, let's say, a regular restaurant chef to convert into an R&D chef is that mentality of nobody's come into Chef Mike's restaurant. It's not my name on the door. I need to understand your customer. Their buying intentions, are they purchasing it purely based on its flavor and how it looks? Or are there other reasons they might be buying it? Affordability, Convenience. So in the world of food trends right now, like what are you seeing that's really hot right now, whether it be a flavor or a style or, you know, what are people gravitating toward? A lot of the cool hip happening trends usually start in fine dining or whatever it might be. We're a little farther along in the process of how trends appear. So we're still very much in plant based world, whether it's plant based protein, plant based dairy alternatives, still in a very clean label, customers wanting to know what's in their food items. But one of the things we're seeing now is that to be a little less apologetic about indulgence, some people need ice cream on a Friday after work. We should not be making people feel bad about wanting a little treat, a little indulgence every now and then. So there are ways to keep it indulgent while maybe making it a little better for you. Whether it's protein fortified, slight reduction in caloric intake or sugar cleaning those labels a little bit. Yes, there are healthy alternatives available, but not afraid to buy a smaller container of ice cream and maybe crush the whole pint. That's so true. That's a trend I can get down on. Like, I'm so glad we're entering that phase of society of like, Oh, hey, we're allowing ourselves indulgences now. That's cool. All right, Eat what you eating? What you want is a trend. Sign me and I don't have to keep ice cream in the closet anymore. That's awesome. When you create new flavors or whatever, whatever new innovation that you've come up with, say, when isn't successful, what leads to that? I think there's a variety of things. So some trends can be one and done where people just want to try it once and then they go back to their regular schedule. Food item, Pumpkin spice stuff is a great example. There is a good majority of pumpkin spiced anything sales. That is a average consumer buying it once or twice in the season. But those come and go because sales eventually drop as people go back to their originally scheduled item. Costs fluctuation may be introductory. It was super cheap because there was a lot available and now unfortunately it is so hard to find the real deals. Sriracha on the store shelves because of X, y, z reasons. Now people are looking for alternatives to that because they can't find it on their store shelves. Now you're learning about different kinds of hot. Maybe instead of scratch you buy Sambal or Gochujang or all of these, and now you're learning more about other things that are available. Yeah, there's a variety of reasons why things may come and go. I wouldn't say it's ever because it was a misstep. There's probably other things purchase, intent, ingredient availability. I think now, now more than ever, two people are very concerned about the company that makes the food item. What do they stand for? Are they, you know, making sure that they are practicing safe and sustainability in their growing of their products or ingredients or whatever it might be. So there's a variety, all the things you could think of of why you like a person or a brand are the same things you can overlay on why that flavor or whatever it might be comes and goes or falls off the shelf. All right, Brandon, let's talk about our next topic here, food and restaurant packaging. This is big and we've all felt this because we all go out to restaurants, you know, whether it be fast food or anything else. But it's all about sustainability right now, right? People are trying to make their packages packaging more sustainable to varying degrees of success. I would say I would agree. But yeah, everyone has their opinions on, you know, how a paper straw tastes or feels in the mouth, the mouthfeel of the straw, they say. But it is a good thing we're all trying to be more sustainable and we're trying to get rid of all the plastic that ends up in oceans. And we're, you know, it's a thing that it's good for our earth to think about, be conscious about, but it's also needs to be balanced with what consumers want and appreciate. So there's a lot there's a lot of companies out there that are that are involved in trying to make packaging more sustainable. And in a pack, which is an innovative packaging manufacturer, it released their 2023 trends in packaging. Unsurprisingly, it is all basically focused on being more more sustainable. Right. Which is a breath of fresh air in a lot of ways because how many to go containers have we accumulated and thrown away that were plastic? And as we continue to learn, I don't know. I'm getting targeted on social media about plastics and recycling. And, you know, we grew up in an era where we talked a lot about recycling, but now learning the challenges behind the right recycling system. Yeah, quite frustrating to me. I'm like, here, I think I'm doing a good thing by putting all these things in the recycling. Yeah, but once you learn about how it's actually they don't make it to now they are they go, they end up in the incinerator in a landfill and I think, you know, like big plastic or whatever you want to call them. Yeah, they certainly like led us to believe that single use plastics once put in the recycling bin, then get recycled and reused somewhere. And now finding out estimated only 9% of the plastics that we think are being recycled actually get recycled. And the other 91% just end up as trash refill or getting burned up or whatever. Now that we're starting to become cognizant of that fact, now it's like the rush has been put on to like navigate away from single use plastics, especially in our food, which is where a majority of them are. Another stat that I found is that food and food packaging are two of the top most contributors to generated waste, which right is a big deal. So about that and you're like, yeah, I could see that it impacts people on a personal level because I used to if I would use like a ketchup bottle, I got a Heinz bottle, I used it all up, rinse it out and put it in recycling. Now, like it goes through my head like it is even worth the water to rinse this out, or I just throw it in the trash where it's probably going to end up anyway, you know, which is it's not a great spot to be in. It's sort of like demoralizing. It's like I feel like now I'm handcuffed between doing something that's probably not going to matter or just skipping it altogether. Yeah, Yeah, for sure. And then, of course, you know, the materials that they're using. I mean, even even like what you're saying with the plastics and the food, you know, we've got compostable dishes or containers. People are talking about how that isn't necessarily ending up in the right spot, too, unless you're actually composting it like you should be. Like a lot of that just gets tossed. Yeah. You know, you think about going to a restaurant or getting takeout and they're delivering these products. And of course it has to fit the meal like an upscale restaurant is going to give you kind of a crummy plasticky. It's got to fit, right? The vibe and esthetic. But then you take that home and unless you have your own way of composting that or disposing of that, it's not actually fitting the purpose that it was designed for, even though consumers are demanding that. So that is also very confusing to me. Yeah, Yeah. And I mean, it goes beyond environmental things too, because some of these plastics, you know, they call them P.F. a s, which stands for I mean, I'm going to butcher anyway, but let's go for it. Per and Polyfluoroalkyl substances. But anyways, whatever these, these single use plastics contain chemicals in them that have been linked to certain health problems. So it's about more than just keeping our world healthy. It's about keeping ourselves healthy with these plastics and y food manufacturers and quick service restaurants. And everybody in the food industry is starting to look for new ways to serve things up rather than in the plastic. And one of those, you know, being over the top one of these trends, obviously, is paper. People are looking for cardboard versus plastic, right? You're seeing paper straws. How do we evolve away from plastics into this paper stuff, which is interesting? You know, that seems obvious, but there's problems with that, too, because paper also comes with its own recycling challenges because you can only recycle at a certain amount of times before they call it virgin material, which is thing like that's what we're going with. Okay. But like, you know, you know, newly manufactured material, non recycled material has to be added into it, you know, when even paper is not perpetually recyclable. Mm. You got to think about that too. Does it hold in certain juices. Yes. So like, so then in order to make it so it can whole juices, then you have to, you're adding film on you know and layers on that themselves aren't recyclable. So, so complicated. Also you've got to think about your consumer like people don't want to use paper straws. Like in my experience anyway, I don't like them. I haven't talked to one single person who's been like, Yeah, yeah, that's we get it. Okay, how I want to start to feel, you know, it's it's wild, so. Well, you brought up the film right on the containers to keep the juices like the grease in some cases off of, like yourself. And so there was an article by Food Navigator that we came across talking about sustainable packaging and how they line it with seaweed for a burger box. And that got the royal seal of approval. So it was a challenge I think put out in the UK to figure out what you could do to increase the sustainability as society projects and the Earthshot Burger in London gave it a shot and got blessed by Prince William. A He was part of the unveiling to share this as part of the solution line. The the box with a seaweed so that your burger's not spilling onto your lap. I love the like the food industry just like, looks in such unexpected places for solutions. It's like, Oh yeah, wow. I wouldn't have probably thought seaweed was the answer there, but so does that make it completely either compostable or recyclable then or whatever, or I would guess so, since this is such a breakthrough. Yeah, they did talk about how seaweed is one of nature's most sustainable resources. So I think that certainly plays into it, right? Like whether you like it or not, it is in, you know, our bodies of water. It's abundant, it's fast growing. We know it doesn't require fresh water or fertilizer. So it's not taking those resources. It's not taking our arable land that we're using for other farming or living well. And it has to be like for these things to to be long term solutions. They have to be, you know, they have to scale, right? They have to be large scale possibilities. And, you know, to know that like, oh, seaweed is everywhere and it's renewable and, you know, very green. It's not it's not too difficult to cultivate. And it's like, okay, well, then maybe this is a viable mass produced alternative to be more sustainable, which is great. There's this, you know, shift. You can start to see more cartons of water, you know, like water bottles. Yeah, there was the thing is like now cartons of water. And I've often looked at that and I don't know the answer to this. So I'm not I'm not trying to say it is or isn't sustainable. But like in order to hold that fluid in, there has to be some sort of barrier. Yeah, there has to be some sort of layer in there that uses something other than just paper, you know, So it can't possibly be 100% sustainable or recyclable. And again, I have no evidence to back that up, but I'm just like talking it through my head. So, man, if seaweed could be the answer, that would be awesome. Yeah, it'd be really interesting. So the company's called not to not play to. Yeah, and they're anticipating more listings and wider international distribution in 2023. So I can't say that I've seen it yet in the U.S. but again, it originated over in the U.K. and I'm sure will be seeing it come down the pike with some of our products and packaging. And this is becoming a big business, you know, because there are other I mean, not plus one of them, but there's all kinds of other companies that are devoting their entire business model to creating sustainable packaging solutions. I mean, there's another one. Eco appliance is another company that's out there doing exactly that. It's that's that's cool. There is consumer demand for it, you know, and they are doing a great thing for the planet, but it's also economically viable to them in order to create a whole business out of it and be profitable. So that's really cool, right? Eco Pliant was saying it's just a matter of getting it into manufacturing now with some of their products that consumers or the companies, the food manufacturers. Right. That they're working with. So that gives me hope that maybe we can resolve some of this frustration with recyclables and figure that out. But in elementary school, they hammer that into reuse, recycle, reuse, and you're like, Oh, we're not getting as far as what we'd hoped to try and save the world. For our generation of kids, sustainability is always lives in the world of easier said than done, right? Yes. It's like, Yeah, you got it. Yeah, it sounds great, you know? But like, how do we get it done on a mass scale? And that's often the, often the frustrating thing with food innovation in general, like what you just said of like, well, we're just waiting for it to become a reality right? You hear like, the greatest thing. It's like, Oh my gosh, we can do that now. Well, the science is there, but now we're still like 5 to 10 years away from it becoming available in the market. So I guess we wait on this one, too. But I just I love that the solutions are out there. One of the solutions I mentioned, I just have to give a shout out to our potato friends because we live in Wisconsin, where the third largest producer of potatoes. If you knew that I was today, years old when I learned that, Hey, hey, that's awesome. So they're making foams made entirely from potato starch that can then be molded into a shape for some of these packaging solutions. I thought that was cool. That is cool. And then of course I would like hopefully deteriorate at a inappropriate rate. We could do a whole segment on that. We might have to revisit exactly how potato foam packaging works, because I'm intrigued. And why would that be cool? It's like I got something to lose. Yeah, potatoes can be the hero. One more interesting thing, I thought just in the before we wrap this up, too, is how branding is sort of maybe backfiring on some of these companies and make in like yeah, creating more of a spark in them to evolve away from plastics is because, you know Starbucks has the recognizable green straw right? Right. And Dunkin has the recognizable orange straw. And when people see these out and they see like, I know exactly where that straw came from, and that's part of the problem. So there are companies like that who have built branding in which, you know, is usually a good thing, are now like we got to be the fastest ones to make change because people are starting to recognize us as part of the problem. Yeah, just based on the color of the plastic that's in some of this junk. So I agree. We've all seen the, you know, the video of the turtle with the straw and it's poor little nose and you're like, how did this happen? Right? Like we should be more responsible or, you know, do our part. And yes, that's part of it. But still, there's there's other ways to, I guess, instigate that change. And I do feel bad for that turtle, but I'm still not doing the paper straw thing. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, but yeah, I mean, frustrating. Make a seaweed straw or something. I don't know, like, whatever. Drink that, though. I'll try it before I try before I go back to the paper once. But that's just me. I love it. I love it. Another good thing in the world of food innovation, I love how we're all coming together for sustainable solutions. For sure. Okay, I think we can move on to our last topic. I don't know why we're ending on a bummer today, but it's a bummer. But eye opening. I mean awareness, right? Yeah, I don't think it's too surprising to anybody, but because we all go shopping, you know, on a semi-regular basis, we've all seen some of the shelves missing certain items. But what we're talking about now is food shortages, ongoing problem. In 2023, we have the war in Ukraine going on and they are a huge supplier of some of the stuff that's gone missing. Russia and Ukraine account for close to 20% of the world's cereal production. Yeah, huge in green. A lot of the products we depend on are are are filled with cereal grain products. So it's having an impact that's rattling throughout the food chain and especially all the way down to the consumer with what they can and can't get. Obviously, we haven't had a resolution to that conflict yet. So it's continuing to have an impact on. The shelves, it is a problem. But, you know, we just want to I don't think we need to dig too deep into all the causes behind it. I mean, we all know like what's going on, but maybe just have a discussion on what are some of the products that we're still seeing challenges with supply on. Based on all the other raw resources we're not able to get at the moment right. But that's global and local, right? Like we know that a lot of the country, our country is figuring out how to navigate severe weather, you know, whether it be drought or flooding in some instances, You know, poor California was so dry and often now they're flooded. And that's where a lot of our produce comes from. Yeah, really, when you look at it. So one of those items on the list I think is lettuce, which I'm like, Wow, Well, yeah, well, let's run down the list. You know, doing research for this topic. You know, we came across this really cool site. She finds XCOM shot out that she finds dot com. That's where we found this list from cool site. There's actually a lot of cool stuff on there. I found myself bouncing around after it, even I read this article, but they have a list of the 14 foods you may not be able to buy in the grocery store and 2023 I think this was created earlier in the year, but I think it's still very because not much has changed that have caused these foods to be, you know, scarce out there. So I think, you know, reading through this, I'm like, yup, yup, it all still applies. Yeah. So the first one on the list is bread. I mean, based on what we said before about, you know, the cereal oats and I mean, it's not surprising that, you know, oats, grains, you know, have led to a bread shortage, but still a little bit harder to find that out there. So estimated that crop production in Ukraine will decline by 35 to 45% this harvesting season. I think I think we're going to see it even more towards the latter half of the year because they're they're slowing down even more this harvesting season. So I think be on the lookout for bread. I mean, it's it's there's less of it out there right now. But I think the later months of the year, we might even run into more trouble there. I just feel bad for those farmers over in the Ukraine like they're putting all of their heart and soul into harvesting that product and, you know, doing their part right. And it's like, where's it going? It's not getting to that. And user to do the good and be good stewards of those resources. So yeah, that just comes to mind. As you know, we are entering our own harvest season over here, but some of the other items that are going to be on the short list, sunflower and palm oil as well. Yeah, a lot of the sunflower seed which I guess I didn't realize that is turned into oil also comes from Ukraine. 52% of its newly traded sunflower seed oil come from Ukraine. Honestly, I had no idea that Ukraine was such a global player in food production until this whole, you know, in its the whole situation was scary to begin with. But now it's like even more so when you're just like, dang half of the world's sunflower seed and oil. That's that's a lot. And that goes into a lot of products as well. Yeah. Compound like you mentioned also the palm oil which actually this isn't so closely tied to Ukraine because Indonesia has a huge shortage in that and they're one of the world's largest suppliers of palm oil and they're seeing shortages there. So that's some more stuff you may not see on shelves. Yeah, this one kind of surprised me. Champagne? Yeah. Not because there's a shortage from a production standpoint, but because there's such demand, there's creating a shortage. So it's just like people are having like more branched because maybe like the the rise of brunch has led to more mimosas. Salad. Yeah, right. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe like Chef Mike was saying, being unapologetic in your indulgence, like, people are like, Hey, you know, life is short enough. Let's just enjoy the things that we enjoy. Champagne being one of them. Yeah. At least in my circle, I haven't noticed an uptick. No uptick in people just like drinking champagne. You know, it's like it's more usually more of just like, a celebratory thing. But maybe. Yeah, maybe with your mimosas. Yeah. Next one, beers, canned food and pet food. Not just in food shortages, but notable aluminum shortages, too, right? Are leading to canned goods being, you know, a decline in availability there. Which makes me wonder, are we recycling the aluminum to get it back into the system? Mm hmm. You know, also another thing that's affecting this one is droughts. Yeah, there's some droughts going on. So, you know, obviously a lot of grains go into the making of beer. And with all, you know, with with the rain being a little bit scarce, that's impacting crop yields and leading to, you know, it won't just be beer, It'll be all the other things that those crops go into. Right. That will be short. So even the carbonated beverages right. In general because the carbonation carbon dioxide, which gives us the bubbles in the beer in the sodas, is also lacking. So this is still, I think, an after effect of the dry ice shortage or, you know, it was in such high demand during the COVID vaccine era that you couldn't get dry ice and so therefore you couldn't make carbon dioxide bubbles. Yeah, everybody was kind of trying to do their part. Even ethanol plants, I remember reading way back were, you know, trying to figure out how they could get that into the stream so that people can enjoy, you know, a beer or a Diet Coke, whatever it might be. It's so crazy that, like all these shortages are down to the elemental level. You know, it's like carbon dioxide in helium. You can't find a helium balloon. You're right. It's like it's Sorry, kids. Yeah, it's like no balloons, birthdays, then. But yeah, I mean, it is it's wild. What's the next one? Lettuce. So getting back to lettuce. Yeah. People are finding it difficult to find in the grocery stores and some of that is probably weather related, but also disease. So there was a major disease impatiens necrotic spot virus I NSV which is carried by insects and that often results in the death of the plants that they are nibbling on. So that has quickly spread across Salinas Valley, which is a major producer of that fresh produce, as we know. So nearly 50% of the country's lettuce production is being impacted. And it's already that these bugs have destroyed over 80% of the area's crop for 2022. So I'm sure they're still playing catch up here in 2023. Yeah, the article didn't really go into like what the crop looks like for in 2023, but I mean, we know that these things have such a lasting impact that like the crop from 2022 is still leading into, you know what what the shelves look like right now. So lettuce is such an easy thing to grow. I know you and I have talked about either having a green thumb or not having a green thumb, but there are so many cool like things that you can do in your home. Now if you really want just fresh lettuce or herbs or something green kind of year round without putting a lot of investment. Yeah, I've seen some like two things vertical towers is that you can. Yeah. Harvest growing lettuce. I know, I'm curious. I mean here in Wisconsin. Cool. Yeah. You can do it outside right now and like a raised bed or whatever. But once it turns chilly, you might have a harder time. So bring that inside and give it a try. I mean, I've never kept the plant alive in my life, but I'll give. Let us go. Let's try. Next number six is which we talked about before. There's a lot of drought out there. Yeah, but when you start to think of all the things that corn goes into and it's a you know, a lot of people are thinking like, hey, we're talking about sweet corn here. The corn you can buy, you know, the back of a truck in an abandoned blockbuster parking lot or whatever. But we're talking about like let's corn in terms feed corn, which feeds animals, which would then lead to shortages in beef and pork and poultry, all of that stuff we're talking about, you know, the corn sirup that goes into sodas, that goes into, you know, all the other flavored kind of beverages and products. And when you start to have shortages of this stuff, I mean, corn is a big one because it's just so far reaching when corn short, everything short, it seems like. And, you know, it's things like corn starch and you've already mentioned corn sirup. It's in the things that you wouldn't expect it to be in. So you know, that just shows how connected and reliant we are and different things. You know, it's a commodity that we trade globally. So countries like Ukraine, we've already touched on, but Brazil as well, we import or they export to us because of the flip seasons, right, with the hemispheres. So we're all connected and relying on one another, which is really cool from a global market perspective, but also very challenging when things like this come to a head. Yeah. Speaking of mimosas, tell us what number 70 There are No mimosas will be had, apparently, because not only are we missing the champagne now, orange juice and odds are at a shortage thanks to Hurricane Ian last year, which is still you know, it dealt a big blow to Florida's orange crops and is continuing to reverberate into this year. It ruined, you know, the the plants the trees. So therefore, those aren't just something that can be regenerated or regrown in a matter of one season. We know that these plants take a while to fully mature to get the the crop off of them. So a big hit expected to drop 51% this last year. So I know they're making an effort to continue to scale up again. But that's millions of boxes of oranges. Well, and I guess there's this disease called citrus greening, which I've never heard of, you know, and that's that's going crazy through Florida's crops. And the experts are saying that, you know, we can recover from hurricanes, but, you know, this disease may potentially be a more dire long term issue. So and that's where like genetics come into play here, right? Like really looking at the variety of orange that can combat this disease. So food technology is of the utmost importance. And we're not pulling weird things as citrus growers on the consumer, We're looking for a variety resistant to this disease. And that's how we come up with some of these varieties that we know are going to thrive to hit those challenges head on. Yeah. Next one is probably no surprise to shoppers out there, but I mean, we're seeing I mean, when I when I try to go find, you know, certain cuts of beef, it's just you don't get them. You're going to have to probably make a substitute. It's like, hey, maybe, maybe don't get the cut of beef you want or whatever, or you're just not getting there's not enough even ground beef out there. It's like you can just see the shortage when you go shopping. There are all kinds of weather events in 2022 that impacted the beef industry. And as we talked about before, the shortage of feed for, you know, the beef cattle, like all of that's adding up to less beef on the shelves. There was a slug of beef that came through because of, you know, not being able to feed these animals properly. So they went to the market. And then now after that slug of meat has been consumed, we're still working on rebuilding those herds again. So that's why we're a little short. The next one I found really interesting is olive oil again disease. So there's a bacteria that's really impacting the oil production in that production typically happens Italy and Spain. So it's making these olive trees unusable. The fruit from the olive trees unusable before it actually gets into the production in the squeeze. So we're we're running out of oils, too, because now we have the palm oil, the sunflower oil, Sunflower seed oil. Well, it's it's becoming a problem. 50 to 70% olive oil production reduction since this disease took hold. So what are we going to grease our pants with? You know, bacon, grease, bacon, fat. That's not on the. Please don't tell me Bacon's on this list. It's not bacon still an option and pork is still cheap. So I guess let's let's pivot to that pork to the rescue. That magical animal number ten, a big one is infant formula. I haven't gotten this far down. So you tell me what what are we short on infant formula for? Yeah. So last year we saw such a shortage in that has continued on. So there were there was a massive recall which definitely impacted that. And I think they're working on bringing that production up to full scale. I think there's also a strike that was mentioned big retailers really put a purchase limit. So for parents with young kids who are depending on formula, that was a real pinch. You know, I remember seeing on Facebook people saying, hey, if you have any formula in your area, you know, let me know and I will make the trek or please ship it. I will pay you whatever it's going to take. Yeah. So really unfortunate. So they're still working on bringing that back up into production levels. You know, I feel like two or three out of the infant game, you know, it's it was expensive enough when I was buying it, You know, back in the day, I was like, now it's more shortages and, you know, everything else, inflation. It's like, dang, yeah, if you're going to the formula out of sled, right, you have to pick up a second job at this point. That as well. The next one's a little bit more niche, very specific in terms of the brand, but it's her kensington's ketchup. But this one is interesting because of it's all the other things we already talked to you that's contributing to it no longer being on the shelves or Kensington's is like is a crowd favorite for some, it's a cult hit catch up brand that they're going to stop producing after 13 years and their co-founders, Scott Norton, he attributes that to things like inflation and price pressure that has been caused by some of the shortages and all this other stuff. So it goes to show the effect it has down the food chain, you know? Mm hmm. Yeah. So that's coming off the shelves. Won't be making a reappearance. So I guess if you're a fan of Sir Kensington's, get your fix now and can still get it on Amazon. Be ready to pay this article. So, yeah, get. Get on there. And you know you can be a sir kensington's hoarder. Maybe turn it in a little business where you buy up a bunch and then, you know, flip it. It's a yeah, flip your flip. Ketchup flippers coming to you on TLC. Yeah. There you go. Number 12 rice. Just everything we've talked about already with the grain shortage. Yeah, We actually did a previous podcast on rice shortage with with Ava, so we talked a little bit about that. Yet this is definitely talking about the climate impacting the places where they're producing a lot of the rice. So China and Pakistan. And of course, we know here in the U.S., the southern states are great producers of rice states like Arkansas. Yeah, I try and source more local, I guess. Yeah, Prices risen by 10% since last year on race, but there is light at the end of the tunnel on this one. Some of the experts are predicting that the shortage will only last until next year. So maybe, maybe we only have a few months left of the of the rice shortage, which is great, but rice is such a staple for so many cultures. Yeah, that's a challenge for sure. Yeah. I mean, that's a global one for sure. That that's a problem. Yeah. This next one, Mike. Chef Mike mentioned Sriracha. How do you feel about that? I'm all right on Karachi, You know, like, I think it's good, but I'm not like one of the one of the die hard saroja people. I will eat it, you know, especially if I'm out it like noodles and company. And they got that. I'm putting that on my noodles, you know. But it's not a staple in our house by any means, even though I am a big hot sauce fan. But I know there's a lot of people out there that will be a little bit upset about it. Yes. So this is as a result of failed chili crops. And so the prices of bottles are being sold online and some people are shelling out 70 bucks a bottle. What? Can you believe that? Yeah, man, guys, I mean, if you have the means, by all means, you go out and you get your $70 bottle saroja. But there's got to be alternatives, right? And you favorite hot sauce or you know, I'm. Yeah, I'll find an anything you name my favorite bottle of hot sauce every start telling me cost $70. I'm done with that I'd say it's a little much. I'm out. All right, let's move on. Finally, number 14, sugar. What's going on with sugar? Our major sugar producer, India is not going to be raising its quota on sugar exports and quotas are whole. Another thing that we can get into it, another point with commodities. And so meanwhile, the sugar supply in Brazil, Europe, Mexico, Thailand, China and Pakistan low. And so this could result in a shortage across the globe. So maybe I know we know that the trend as we've been talking about is less sugar. Maybe this is a time to start implementing alternatives like natural sugars, honey, mung fruit, maple sirup, whatnot. But but Chef Mike just told me I'm going to start being able to have my indulgences. And now you're telling me sugar. Okay. I can't say sugar shortage. Sure, sure. I got it. Yeah, but yeah, man, we probably could all use less sugar in our diet, but yeah, it's still, you know, based on, you know, it impacts more than just consumers. It impacts the economies of these countries and stuff like that, too. So there's less of that to factor in. So that's the list. Again, you can read into it more than just the summary we gave on. She finds dot com check it out. Hopefully it turns around because that's a lot of a lot of really important stuff that is in short supply so right for our country and our day to day groceries a lot of those hit on kind of the staples in some sense. Ketchup is not popular in every country. Right. But like for us here in America during grilling season, like it's a thing, everything on this list is in either my pantry or refrigerator. So except for kensington's ketchup. I you know, we're a Hinds family, but it's crazy. So and it's impacting price. So even if it is available, you know, it's more expensive than it ever has been. You know, aside from the inflation that's happening in everything now, like all these shortages are are just making it even more expensive on an everyday consumer. So hopefully it turns around we're crossing our fingers. But yeah, it's it's a big deal. Shop accordingly. Right Accordingly. Well, that's it. We did it. We did it. Oh five is in the books and we look forward. We're already get we're going to get started on episode six right after this. So thank you guys once again for joining us. Episode five We hope you had a great time listening. Learned a lot. If you have any topics that you'd like, reach out to us on our social media and drop a line. Let us know. Be sure to check out our accompanying blog on State of the Plate XCOM. Go back and consume some of our other episodes as well to make some of these connections that we're making here in today's. I know we mentioned I have tea with Chef Mike and some of the topics and trends that we covered start binging on the content. Yeah, be sure to go check out the full interview with Chef Mike too. Once again, got a plug that it was a great conversation, so be sure to jump over there. Check it out right after this. And until next time, stay hungry. Stay hungry.