Clothed Conference Live Show: All Touched Out in Marriage

In this podcast episode, the hosts discuss the challenges of feeling "touched out" as mothers and the impact it can have on intimacy with their husbands. They explore various lies and misconceptions about sex within marriage, such as viewing sex as dirty or feeling like they have complete control over their bodies. They emphasize the importance of aligning their beliefs about sex with the truth from the Bible.

The hosts also discuss the balance between being a good mom and a good wife and how sometimes the focus on children can shift priorities in marriage. They mention the spiritual warfare that can affect marriages and how maintaining the right order of priorities (God, spouse, children) is crucial.

They share practical tips for overcoming the "touched out" feeling, including communication, planning intimate moments, and the "simmering" concept to preheat emotional connection throughout the day. They stress the importance of prayer, self-reflection, and grace for each other when dealing with intimacy issues.

The episode ends with recommendations for resources, including books and podcasts, that can help couples navigate these challenges and strengthen their marriages, along with an emphasis on seeking God's help in overcoming obstacles in their sex lives.

Overall, the episode addresses a common issue faced by many mothers and offers both theological and practical insights to help them overcome feelings of being "touched out" and strengthen their marriages.

To find more gospel-centered resources head to https://www.resoundmedia.cc

Transcript

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Hi, my name is Elizabeth and I'm one of the co-hosts here on the Mom Guilt podcast. Thank you for taking the time to listen. And if you've been a listener for a while now, please, please, please take the time to rate and review this podcast. This is how we're going to get out to other moms who need to hear the gospel. And also, if you find this content helpful, please take time to share with another mom who may be struggling in the midst of mom guilt.

Well, welcome listeners.

We are super excited and we are coming to you live from the Peace Women's Conference. We have been having so much fun this weekend talking about being clothed in hope, grace and glory. So those in the room, can you guys give a shout out to those listening online later? Say hi. Awesome. So for you guys sitting here who may not have heard our podcast, we are the Mom Guilt Podcast. And like we were sharing a little bit earlier, our podcast is really designed for moms so you can be unburdened by this mom guilt that we so often feel through the gospel, right? Because that's the truth. And so often we can have these feelings of mom guilt, and sometimes it's what we would say godly guilt, where this is actually conviction from the Holy Spirit. But sometimes we feel this guilt that comes from maybe trying to be too much like God or trying to believe a lie. And we just feel this guilt on our shoulders. And how do we get rid of that guilt? Sometimes we need to realign what we feel with the truth. And how do we do that? It's by looking at the truth, our source of truth, the Bible, and what does God say? And so, so often we'll be talking and our kids are playing. Elizabeth and I have been friends for seven years now to the point where we're starting to kind of feel like sisters at this point. And as we would get together with play dates or call each other on the phone, this idea of mom guilt just kept on coming up. And so we wanted to share that with you guys that this, you know, so often we have real time conversations of what we're struggling through and we use the Bible and that helps us to see the truth and to be unburdened from that guilt.

And I think the longer that we've had this friendship, we've realized not every mom has this and what a blessing it is. So this is hopefully going to be encouraging to find another godly woman that you can do this with because it's just been such a blessing for us.

Yeah.

So we are doing our breakout session here today on being touched out.

Yeah, it's a good one.

It is. So, so we're going to be exploring this idea of what does it mean as a mom, if you're a stay at home mom or not, you know, you have your kids and your kids love to touch you, and they love the snuggles and the kisses and all of that, which is great. And then so often, our husband will come home, and he also wants the snuggles and the kisses and other things, and we just feel touched out. We've given all that we have to give, and there's nothing more. And unfortunately, in my marriage, my husband is the one who takes the brunt of me not having anything left to give him. So I think we're just going to call it what it is. I mean, we're saying touched out, but really we're going to be exploring today, like what do you do as a mom who, when your husband wants to have sex and you don't want to be touched, you've given all that you have, but you love your husband.

What do you do?

I think that's so hard.

Yeah, I felt this struggle. I mean, I feel it with my husband. I feel with my kids, I share this, I rarely share this because it's embarrassing, but there's times when my kids want to snuggle or hug me and I'm like counting to five. Like hold the hug for five seconds because I'm just so overstimulated. And then, but I do it because I love my kids, but sometimes when it comes to my husband, I'm like, no, you don't need me.

You know, like you're an adult, figure it out.

Yeah, exactly. So it's this tension that sometimes I don't even, I'm touched out from even loving my kids, let alone my husband.

Yeah, so I think, I mean we want to talk about it. We want you guys to know you're not alone if you're feeling this way. I think this is a really normal experience that we feel in motherhood. This tension of really, how do I be a good mom and a good wife? And that's really hard. Sometimes we can feel like we're going through life and our cup is just completely empty and yet we're expected to pour more and more out. So I think we wanted to talk about it for that. Also, I think there's so often the spiritual warfare that we can sometimes be oblivious to and really, I mean, put your mind in maybe the devil's thinking, but okay, what is the best way to attack a family? It's really to attack the marriage, right? And so with this idea of being touched out, I think there's really a lot of spiritual warfare because, you know, there's this thing that if you're talking about a Christian, sometimes I like to think about it like in circles. So in the center, we would have God, right? And then from God, then maybe the next circle out, you would have your husband, you know, your marriage, and then the circle out that that's your kids. And I think this is actually we see this pattern in scripture where God and then your spouse and then your kids. But what happens so often in our culture today is that those get twisted, that maybe the kids are going to start to come before your husband because the little kids are really hard, right? And they sometimes will need so much more than maybe your husband does. And so there are seasons in our life where we're fighting to keep, you know, this idea of God and then our husband and then our kids.

Yeah. And even coming from a standpoint of I didn't grow up in a Christian household, my parents very much modeled that the kids come first before their own marriage, before their own well-being. That's what you do. That's what it means to be a good mom, and you put your kids above everything. And biblically, that's not what scripture says. It's not sustainable. So culture says, oh, you're touched out, well, your kids need all of your love, and then you need to take care of yourself, and then maybe if there's some left over for your husband, maybe. So yes, that's one of the lies that we combat constantly.

Yeah. So I think our goal for today is to kind of talk about, we want to make sure that we're all on the same page. Because I think sometimes when you hear sex, there's a lot of baggage or thinking that comes along with that. And so we just kind of want to dispel maybe some of the lies that we're believing about sex that are impacting us maybe not wanting to have intimacy with our husbands and things like that. So do you kind of want to start us off with one of the lies that I know you and I both kind of struggle with sometimes? Yeah, so I

have a past of sexual abuse so I sometimes view sex as dirty or it's just yucky and it's not really God's, it's not really a gift from God. And that can play a lot into me desiring sex and wanting it. And then when I feel like, oh, my body already is like, I've been pregnant. There was a baby and that my body accommodated a baby. And now I feel like I have to stretch myself so thin. So that's one lie that I've really struggled with, which we see in the church, right? Maybe we're taught that sex is dirty. That is bad. And that's not true.

It's a gift from God. Yeah. And so like talking about so so maybe there's this lie. How do we dispel a lie? We look to the truth, right? So I mean, look back to Genesis at the very beginning. God says in Genesis 2 24, a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife and they become one flesh. So we see right away sex is actually designed by God. It's a good thing within the marriage context, right? And so this idea that sex is dirty is a lie. And we can see from the Bible that sex is God's good design. It talks about engaging in sex for procreation, for having children, but also we know that God designed it for pleasure as well. And sometimes we don't like to talk about that because maybe sometimes it's awkward or I know years ago, there was like a purity culture where you didn't really want to talk about that sex is enjoyable because you didn't want to tempt people to have sex outside of marriage. But I think in focusing that and ignoring the fact that sex is pleasurable, well, because it's designed by God, right? He designed our bodies in a specific way. It's not an accident that sex is pleasurable. It's actually God's good design within marriage, though.

Yeah. Another life like I struggled with is because I don't want sex. That doesn't mean I have, you know, I don't want it. So then I don't have to do it. Which like I shared is hard with my background. One of the verses that comes up is 1 Corinthians chapter 6, 19 through 20. Or do you not know that your God, your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God. You're not your own for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. And I want to believe that my body is my own. I get full say over it. I get full dominion over it.

I want to be lord of my body. Well, that's a really prevalent slogan that we hear, right? My body, my choice.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's deep rooted. And so to reframe that, that actually my body is not my own. It was my body is God's, right? And so I'm to glorify God with my body in every way.

Yeah.

And I think another one that we can kind of struggle with is that marriage and sex is all about my happiness, right? But really looking at how the Bible describes marriage or intimacy within that, we see that marriage isn't just this thing. It actually is meant to point us to something greater. So we see in passages like Ephesians 5, it's actually talking about a husband and wife and the marriage and says, and this is like Christ in the church. And so our marriage is actually meant to be like a parable of Jesus and the church. And so there's actually, if that idea is intriguing to you, there's a really great book that I have read with my husband. It's called A Parable of Permanence, and it's written by John Piper. In that book, if you're wanting to like explore more of, well what does that mean that a marriage actually reflects something different, something greater, he does a phenomenal job in that book. And so that's a resource that I'd really recommend if you want to explore that because we don't have time to fully, I mean that could be its own breakout session on its own.

Yeah, and even thinking deeper about this, that our bodies are our husbands and their bodies are us. Scripture says that, which is scary, honestly. To think of that, it's scary. Like, I have something I have to do out of obligation. But husbands, if they love you like they love their own body, they're not going to want you to feel fearful or feel like, oh, this hurts or this is uncomfortable. And then same, if you're thinking of your husband who maybe might be struggling, what would you do if you were struggling? So kind of that tension of we want to outdo one another in honor.

Yeah, and I think so these last two layers, they kind of bleed into each other. Can you guys see how they're kind of related in some ways? And so one thing I just kind of want to call out, and Elizabeth was just saying this too, so a lot of times I'm going to read a verse and I want you to try to hear it for the first time because the verse that I'm about to read can sometimes it's been used as like a weapon to tell wives you have to have sex whenever your husband asks. So let me go ahead and read the verse and then we'll talk about it for a second. So first Corinthians 7 verse 4 says, for the life or so the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise, the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. And with this verse, I've unfortunately heard some people, I think maybe well-intentioned even, will say, husbands, if you ask for sex from your wife, this verse says she has to say yes every time. And I think reading this verse, as well as the context around it, that's not really what this verse is getting at. It's talking about like what Elizabeth was just saying that husbands are to love your wife and love her well and wives, you are to love your husband well. Well, if you're feeling touched out at the end of the day, your husband can see that. And so he's called to say, you know what, you know, maybe we had agreed to have sex tonight, but my wife is really tired. This is a really rough day today. I'm just, you know, going to give her maybe a back rub and not expect anything to follow from that back rub. But then likewise, wives, if we're aware of our husband's needs and said, man, it's been a really long time since we've been intimate. I don't really want to do that, but I know that this is a way that I can love my husband well, well then, you know, in that moment and in that night, maybe you are then able to be intimate with your husband. And so it's this give and take both ways, and sometimes the church has talked to the wives on our aspect of that verse and not the husbands and what they're called to do in that verse.

Yeah, absolutely. I know I felt that, and then all it fostered was a bitterness and resentment towards sex instead of seeing it as a gift and a good thing. So I've struggled with doing things for the wrong reasons where I would be like, fine, you need this, I guess, and I'll do this, and then feeling bitter and angry. And that's not what God wants. He doesn't want us to just do the right thing, but with a bad heart posture. But it's hard, it's hard when your hormones are crazy, when your kids, like, you're just trying to sit and they have to sit on you. And it's so hard, the wrestle of it all but yet you love your husband and you want to do what the lord is calling

you to do as a wife. Yeah. So, I think those are kind of some broad strokes, kind of the theology questions and stuff. So, let's kind of move away cuz I'm guessing most of us are here today cuz maybe we want some practical steps on what to do when I feel this. So, we're gonna kind of transition into a little bit more of like the practical. Some things that Elizabeth and I have found have been helpful for us when we're feeling touched out.

Yeah.

So, first off, pray. Like, there's so many times when it's that time and my husband's like, oh, I really want us to be close again. And I'm like, I don't want to. Like, I want to go to bed. I want to, you know, put my like really old t-shirt on. Like, you know.

Our not sexy pajamas.

No, I'm wearing my granny panties or like, I don't know, whatever. But I have to pray like, God, help me to want this. Help me to desire this. Sometimes in my devotionals, I'm like, why don't I desire this? Why don't I want this? I know it is good and it's good for our marriage. It can ward off spiritual warfare and it really blesses our marriage. So first of all, pray and check your heart. See maybe why you feel this way.

Is there something you need to talk to your husband about? Yeah, and I think with praying when you don't want to feel this way, it sometimes can feel really odd that you're going to pray to God, but it's okay to pray to God and ask Him for a good sex life with your husband. I mean, this is God's good design, right? So you can see how some of these lies that we kind of talked about earlier are manifesting itself and how we can then take those, see the truth, and then apply that, that we actually should be praying to God to have a good sex life in our husband. We're actually glorifying God when we are intimate with our husbands. And I think that's something that we don't always hear, but is really, really important to know. That your marriage, I mean, initially you think of a marriage as between two people, but I would actually say marriage is between three people. It's the husband, the wife, and God. And so if you start thinking of your marriage in that way, I think sometimes that can kind of help and to realize that this is okay.

Yeah, absolutely. And then evaluating, is this a season? You know, is this just a hard season? Like we just have small kids and maybe we just had a baby or is this a pattern? Am I constant? Are we going weeks and weeks and weeks without being intimate? And that will help you to kind of know how to address it. And then talk to your husband. Like, talk. Over, over talk. Say what you like, what you don't like. Say how you're feeling, because they don't get it. They don't understand what it's like to nurse a baby, to have children. And so giving them perspective and saying, I'm not trying to reject you. I'm not trying, you know, I love you. And then making sure they're heart in it. You know, that for them, this makes them feel close to you.

Just talk about it over and over in your expectations. I think one of the things that my husband and I have found, and this seems so counterintuitive because if you watch movies or you look at Hollywood, which we never should look to them for really a whole lot of guidance and wisdom in our lives. So often in movies, you see sex is spontaneous and this super fun thing. I've actually found, my husband and I have been married 12 years, sometimes you have to plan sex. And that seems like that's, that shouldn't have to happen, but I mean, we prioritize what's important to us. And so making a plan of what, what nights would be best for us to be intimate. Let's look at our calendar and figure out what nights are going are gonna work best and to actually have a plan, which can kind of seem like that's not fun, but I think God blesses that too.

Yeah, and maybe by the end of the day, you're touched out. I feel this, I'm like, it's 8 p.m., the kids just went to bed. So sometimes, like maybe you're a morning person. Maybe try to do it in the morning before you are all touched out. And that's just, I mean, I'm not a morning person, but that might help, you know? I mean, just trying to find ways, how can we shift our day and prioritize this? Because it matters.

Yeah. And so kind of, it goes along with planning too, but I will actually, I have an app on my phone that I can keep track of when my husband and I are intimate. So that way I can kind of look back and I can do some self-reflection of, Hey, are we actually being intimate enough? Because sometimes it feels like we just did this but I'll look back and I'll be like oh my goodness that was like a week ago. Because days especially when you're touched out with little kids they kind of bleed into each other and so sometimes what feels like yesterday may be actually like five days ago. And so having an app to keep track of things like that has been really helpful. It's a good check-in for me and my husband to be how are we doing you know on this and you know there's there's a certain goal that we have set and agreed upon between the two of us. You know, it's kind of a good number checkpoint. Like, how are we doing? Let's evaluate. Do things need to change? Are we doing things well? Let's just kind of sit and talk about it for a little bit.

And sometimes not having sex can be a symptom of a greater problem. Maybe your friendship is kind of not being prioritized too, or maybe there's needs that you haven't expressed. So I like that it can be a great gauge on just your relationship. And yeah, I know another thing we talk about is the simmering concept, which is great. I've heard this where men are like microwaves, women are like ovens. Like you have to preheat us first. We're not ready to go all of the time. So maybe putting it on your radar like, oh, what do you think of tonight or tomorrow? So women can kind of like, oh, OK, I don't know have you have you yeah

so the simmering concept actually hadn't heard that until there's actually a great book and we'll talk about it a little bit more later but this comes from a book called married sex and their thing behind the simmering concept is how do you bring water to a boil is it easier to bring water to a boil if it's ice-cold that you just poured from the tap and are now setting on the stove or is it easier to bring the water to a boil if you've had it simmering? Not boiling, but just kind of simmering there a little bit and then you can just turn up the heat a little bit and you're good to go. And so that's kind of the idea behind the simmering method, that maybe you're talking to your husband throughout the day, whether it's a phone call or text, hey, I'm thinking about you, or he can send you texts of, hey, I love you, you know, this morning you look so beautiful, or just constant communication throughout the day that's keeping my heart soft towards him. So when the kids are in bed, if we have time to be intimate, it's easier because I'm not going from ice cold all the way to boiling.

Yeah. Yeah, and just have grace for each other because you're gonna fail. You're gonna fail.

Both you and your husband, we're sinners.

Yeah, you're gonna fail to give him what he needs at times and he's gonna fail to sympathize and understand how hard it is and to love you well. So having grace for each other and realizing it's not going to be perfect. That, I think realizing that gave me a lot of freedom and just I wasn't so harsh with him.

Mm-hmm.

And I kind of want to end, so this is kind of nearing the end of our practical that we, before we take questions, but one caution I just want to give is one piece of advice that I've heard is, well, just watch porn or read erotic romance novels because that will get you going and then you can have sex with your husband. And I want to come and very strongly say that will lead to destruction. That is inviting another person into your marriage bed, right? We talked about it was three people and it was God, it was you, and it was your husband. The instant you bring in pornography or a romance novel that you're trying to then project this scenario onto you and your husband. That is bringing somebody else into your marriage bed, which violates God's design for sex. And so when I hear that, it just makes me like, cringe me. Like, no, don't do that. It will lead to destruction. Stop. Don't go down that path.

So kind of taking that one step further. What if I am a woman who's listening to this and I have done that.

Yeah, so we are sinners but we also have God as our Savior, right? And so if we are finding ourselves or our husbands addicted to pornography, that's not the end of the story, right? That we can come to the Lord and say, Lord, I have done this. Maybe it's you coming to your husband and you say, I have done this. Please forgive me. And there are different steps. I know the church has different support groups for people that are struggling with pornography and things like that. But that's not the end of the story. Just like Jesus didn't stay in the grave, he resurrected from the dead. And so just like that, we actually get to image God in that way by sin doesn't defeat us. Jesus gives us the strength and can help us fight that sin and overcome it. Which is our hope, right? I mean, that's part of that's the gospel right there is you're not dead in your sin, but Christ has freed us from that and that we're alive in Christ.

Yeah, absolutely.

Amen.

We found kind of a few resources that we have found helpful. I know you mentioned married sex, which I read this book, I think I found it and I called

her and I'm like, Elizabeth, you have to read this book. I need somebody to talk about this with.

I think it was like two or three days. I read this.

It's like, it's an easy read, but it's like a thicker book.

Yeah, but I finished it in like a week. It was so good. I was calling Stephanie like, what did you think of this? Because they give practical advice, like practical that maybe you wouldn't want to Google, right? But yet they do it in a way that is biblical. It is helpful. Like, I'm like, man, where was this my wedding night? Like, I had no idea what it was doing. And

so check that one out. Yeah. So it's Married Sex and it's by Debra Folletta and Gary Thomas.

Yeah.

I've heard them interviewed on some different stuff too. Yeah, it's a great blend of super practical, but yeah, also it talks about how marriage points us to something more. There's more than just a physical aspect to sex. It was very good. I'd really encourage it. So there's that. There is the John Piper book that I mentioned earlier, the parable of permanence, Desiring God, which is actually John Piper's resource website, you have found some great articles.

Oh yeah, I love it. I'll search that verse that you had shared. I wrestled with this verse so much and how to biblically look at it. And so that part of that was talking with you, talking with my husband, mostly my husband, but also looking to people like John Piper who are very smart theologians and have studied the Bible longer than me. So going on Desiring God for that was really helpful. And he describes the kind of the paradox in the beautiful dance that that verse is talking about doing one another in pleasure, right? Always striving to love one another. And if you're always trying to put the other person's needs first, ironically, your needs are all met. So yeah, so I suggest checking that out. And you

listen to Fierce Marriage podcast, don't you? Yes. Okay. If we have any podcast listeners, which if you're listening online, you are a podcast listener because you're listening to us through a podcast. But there is a ministry called Fierce Marriage, and they actually have this whole sphere, they're called Fierce Families, and they do fierce marriage and fierce parenting. And actually, shameless plug, is that in February, Peace Church is having a marriage conference, and they are the key speakers.

Yeah.

It's gonna be so great. So if there's any way you can get to Middleville, Michigan for the Peace Church Marriage Conference, they are going to be our speakers and they are phenomenal. They've written books, they have their own website that you can go on. They've got their podcast, you can find them on social media. They are a great resource that you guys would be able to find. We're fangirling pretty hard. I know.

We're having them here like, how can this be true?

Yeah.

That's great. I think we want to wind down so we can have time for Q&A. Yeah, yeah, so let's open it up. That's kind of what we at this point have

prepared. So would you guys be willing to have any questions for us that we could answer?

I know it's kind of a hard time. Do you have any advice

for kind of getting back into the swing of things and putting your marriage and your husband first right after having a baby.

That is such a hard season.

Yeah, your hormones are off. You're just trying to feed a baby. And maybe sex isn't the same when you leave.

Well, in six weeks, at least afterwards, your doctor tells you you can't have sex. And so that is a really, really hard time. I think I've got four kids, and it was hard every time in different ways. And so if you have had your first and then that period afterwards comes, I just even wanna challenge you, like just one pregnancy to another afterwards can be different. And so I just wanna validate you in that, that just because it's been one way once doesn't mean it's gonna be that way again. If I'm being honest, after having my first child, sex was extremely painful for me afterwards. And I didn't know that that wasn't normal until I had my other three kids and realized, oh, that actually is not normal. And so if that's maybe something, I mean, talking to your doctor, but I think you're probably asking more of like, what is a plan or something that you can help with that?

It's like making it a priority. Yeah. Kind of like you mentioned, Elizabeth mentioned, with like the hormonal aspect and feeling touched out and like, ugh, you know, like you can just tell you're off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So my husband and I, we kind of have this rule where like we initiate and we try. And at any point, like I can say, ah, like it maybe is too painful after having a baby. Maybe I hear the baby crying and I can't get my head in the zone because the baby is crying that I can say like timeout. Um, and that has given me a lot of freedom. It's taken away the fear of trying because my brain, I had postpartum anxiety and depression. And so my brain was so many other places. So that was helpful for me. I don't know if you can think of it.

Yeah, and I've heard it said too,

like a woman's biggest sex organ is your brain. And so if you're struggling to mentally be in the moment, it is so hard if you have the fear of like a baby crying in the next room. That can be so distracting for me. And a lot of times that does happen and I just have to say, honey I'm sorry we need to be done right now. I got to go take care of the baby. And I found if I'm talking to my husband about that, it has been so much better than trying to make him read my mind of what I'm doing. And so for me communicating like, hey I love you but I'm really struggling. I am still trying to figure out what my body image looks like after having a baby. But communication for me was really huge because if he knew why I'm struggling and why I didn't want to have sex, a lot of times I think husbands can feel like it's a personal attack on them.

Rejection.

Yeah, it's like a rejection. And so for me, if I'm talking to him and I'm like, I love you, I'm not trying to reject you, but this is what's going through my brain. I felt like that for us was really helpful as well.

And I would say baby steps, like you're almost relearning because your body's different, your hormones are different, your life is different. So maybe show yourself the same amount of patience and grace, like you're learning something

new. Almost like it's a second wedding night. Because everything will feel different and things like that too. You kind of, it's very similar in some ways.

Yeah, and start, have realistic expectations. Maybe don't expect that you're gonna be exactly who you were right after having a baby. And that's okay. It's not, it's okay for it to look different.

Yeah, it's a great question.

Anybody else have some? Yeah.

I just wanna make the comment that, you know, women have that nine months of the baby developing and all that, and a lot of men are into it, but they're into it usually later. Yeah. When they can feel the baby move, they start getting excited. And so women have a little more time, even though it's unknown to you, to sort of education they had, they would maybe expect and not feel so demasculated, you know, when you're not able to get into it.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's such a good point. I mean, Christian community, I mean, God was so good in designing for so many different reasons that were meant to not do the Christian life alone.

And they didn't use to talk about it. No. Yeah, it was kind of, you know, past few generations, a little bit here and

there. But now it's nice that it is. Yeah, the first few children I had suffered in silence. I didn't dare talk about it with Stephanie. Because it's awkward. Yeah, like I'm like, oh, no one talks about this. And I think that's part of it is that it's okay to talk about it with other godly women, right? We're not going to talk about this with other men that aren't our husbands. But this is how we can pray for each other. Maybe you need a friend that's gonna pray like for this, which might seem like an odd prayer request, but I think if it's a godly one, they understand how important this is for your marriage and for your family. So yeah, talking about it, kind of getting

the weird stigma off of it. Yeah. Yeah. I think also now, because it is for spoken, it's okay for you to have that talk when your son is going to get married and have children and things for you to explain how you felt. So he does understand what his wife is going through when she's getting ready to have that baby and this. Or even when she's getting large, before the baby's even born. Sometimes you're uncomfortable and things.

True, sex looks different.

If you have a good relationship with your son, and it's a godly relationship, he is going to appreciate that you explained to him what that woman is going through.

And I think you were saying that too, I think sometimes we think that when, you know, sex doesn't count unless it's the traditional way. But I think within marriage there is freedom, that maybe if we don't want to have sex in the traditional way, we can offer alternatives within the context of marriage. I mean, I would say off, what would be off limits? Something that's going to cause somebody pain or something like that. But if you want to use your mouth, if you want to use your hands to bring pleasure to your husband, I mean, we read about that in the Bible. If you read the Song of Solomon, that's in there and that's encouraged. I mean the Bible is from the Lord and so I don't think sometimes I can feel discouraged but it's because I'm putting something on myself where if I feel the freedom that maybe we're not going to have like the quote-unquote traditional sex tonight but I can still bring you pleasure there's nothing wrong with that and there's different seasons where after having a baby when you can't have sex for six weeks anyways that can be a beautiful alternative that can still foster intimacy, right?

Yeah, and you mentioned that we believe, that culture believes that sex is purely for our individual happiness. So sometimes that's hard for me to ground like, oh, if I'm going to have sex, then I want to enjoy it. I don't want it, like, it has to be about me or it's not really good. And kind of combating that lie that, oh, maybe, you know, you don't finish, but you're loving your husband or it's more, even less about finishing, but more about being close.

Yeah. Yeah.

Have we made, oh yeah, go ahead. I just have a question.

Like we have three kids under three,

and so just kind of like, how when your kids are younger, did you like find like date nights or like things like that to be able to like make it more primary so that at the end of the day, you weren't to that point of being. Yeah, we've done this differently.

So you share how you do it. Yeah, so we have four kids and my youngest was born one week after my oldest turned five. So I was like one week away from having four kids born under. And so yes, I'm totally tracking the three kids in three years. Yes, we are soul sisters. One of the things that was really hard that I actually, I am so blessed to have family in the area and I know that is not everybody's case. That is not Elizabeth's case. But my mom actually blessed my husband and I and said, every other Thursday night I'm going to watch your kids and you and your husband go on a date night. And so if you are in a position where you're in a stage of life where you can gift that to another mom who's in that season, that is such a beautiful gift that you can give to somebody. If you are on the flip side of that and you're in the little years, I just encourage you ask for help. You know, it doesn't make you less of a person to ask for help. I think so often as a Christian, I feel like I should be the giver of help, not the receiver of help, and that is a lie. We're not perfect. You know, I don't know why I pretend to be perfect and have things all together, but to kind of come up with a plan. You know, I was blessed by my parents watching my kids.

What did you do? Yeah, so I don't have any family close by, so date nights alone are pretty rare. My kids are at my in-laws this weekend because both my husband and I are working, but typically we have to do date night inns with, it isn't always super fun, but we try to make it special. Like my husband will bring home flowers, we'll watch a movie, we put the kids to bed, and so we try to make it special to foster like what a date night would be. And it's not ideal all the time, but we make it work and we try to do it at least once a week. I will say when your kids are small, like my youngest is two, she's not quite there yet, but once they start getting a little bit older, we can say go play outside, you know, go outside for a little bit and they're okay. Mom and dad are gonna go talk in the bedroom, you guys go play. Yeah, so maybe we're not to the point where like we can leave them home alone, I think of that like, oh someday we can go on date nights and they can just stay home. But we can try and get little breaks that way and just seeing what works for you. But it is hard. It's hard when you don't have help and you still want to prioritize that. And you can still foster intimacy, putting your kids to bed, talking, and just having special time.

I've also had friends that when they didn't have family in the area, they would swap. So they would have like a date night partner. And so there'd be like you and your husband and then another couple and you would plan like, hey, we're going to reserve, you know, whatever days on the calendar where we're going to watch your kids on this week and the next week you watch our kids. And so that way there's not like a financial burden of paying your babysitter. You're paying each other in time and swapping. And that has been really helpful to a lot of my friends too.

Yeah, we've done that for seasons of time too with different friends. And I'd ask Stephanie more, but she asked for a little.

Maybe we'll do that too.

Aren't you two close together that it meant if we helped each other in this, somebody would have seven kids while the other ones did it

all under the age of eight?

We start questioning, are you really my friend? You're leaving me with so many children. But I just want to encourage you that it's a season. I have to sometimes tell myself, it won't be like this forever. It's hard. And I so desperately want that. But they grow up and they get older, and so finding that encouragement helps.

Also, consider older people in the church.

I mean, a lot of us have had experience, you know, and if we get to know your family a little bit, you know, of course, children have to be comfortable and know you. Parents have to be sure that you're safe. It's that kind of thing that, you know, we don't, it isn't like we have young children we have to care for all the time. And sometimes we don't have our children near us, but a lot of us are willing to, you know, help out, you know, in that capacity.

Yeah. So being humble enough to ask for help and look for help, maybe with women you don't know, but you know are older and could have time to do it. Yeah.

I think it's important too to realize that date nights shouldn't stop just when your children are

small.

I don't have my kids do date night and their kids, one of them has a kid in college. Having that time set aside because it sets that for those kids to see what's keeping that marriage together. It's important to let them see too that it doesn't stop just when you have small children. It continues on because then it will continue on for them.

I love that. Yeah, because how often are we now seeing couples that once the kids leave the house, they're maybe not getting a divorce until the kids leave the house. And then because they've put kids first, kid first, kid first and neglected their marriage, they then once the kids leave out, they're like, we have nothing in common. That is so sad. Yeah, and like you said, modeling, right?

That your marriage comes before your kids, which is countercultural, so it's hard, but that's what's best for your kids. Yeah, and I think it's interesting.

There's been so many studies that are coming out now that actually, you know, even reading some secular parenting books, they say one of the best things you can do for your kids is to show them how much you love their dad. Yeah.

And that's why I think sometimes I can understand, because I'm a mother with four children and I have twins that are nine and a half months younger than my son. So yeah, I know where you're coming from. It's a baby world and you just leave something adult conversations. But I think your children also, I know you have to feel like you don't want to be touched and all that, but your children need to see you touch each other. And not saying have sex, but I'm saying love. Yeah, you love one another. That is part of who you are, and that's normal behavior.

What a loving marriage looks like.

Right.

Yeah, modeling that. So even, that's really good encouragement. Because sometimes it's like, oh, for my husband's sake, which is good. That should be good enough. But even thinking bigger, like my kids need to see a healthy marriage modeled to them. Exactly. And they do notice. Yeah. I love that.

We still have some time. We've got about five minutes left, so if you guys have any other

questions, we still have time. I've asked Stephanie some really hard, inappropriate questions before in our friendship, so you're not gonna make us uncomfortable. My face might get a little bit red, but it's okay. If the church doesn't talk about it, where do people go to talk about it? And so as a church, yeah, you know what, it might be awkward, but we need the truth out there, right? If we're not going to talk about it, we're leaving people to try to find answers away from the church, and I think that will only hurt, not help. Yeah, absolutely.

What about the time guilt that you feel? You know, I'm a full-time working mom, my husband works full-time, our daughter's in school full-time, so it's like, when we're together, the last thing we want to do is spend more time away where then the time then is so focused on her. So it is it's like we're always caught in that weird battle of feeling guilty over the time aspect of it.

Yeah, like you can't win. Yeah. Yeah. That is really hard. So you're asking how do you balance when you and your husband work full-time and your kids when you guys are all together then you're really trying to cherish that time with you guys so how do you break away and spend this time with your husband because you so desperately want to spend time with your kids as well that is such a valid

question yeah one blessing about small children they go to bed early like 7 8 p.m. so I would just like take advantage of the time that they're sleeping even if it's a short nap. I mean, although you're working, but maybe it's a weekend, it's a short nap. Because that's hard. There is that tension of your way and you want to spend as much time with them as you can. But then I think sometimes we think in the right now, like today, and we have to. We have to think today because that's how we get by. But then thinking of the future, like ah, this hurts today, but in the long run it will be such a blessing. And so it's going to look different for every family and every

marriage too. I don't know if you have more to add. No and I think are your kids are a little older and what are the ages of your kids? Can I ask? Just one, she's four. Okay, yeah. Yeah, so it will look different in different seasons. I'm actually going to open this up. Has anybody, do you guys have any advice or something that you Yeah. We always had quiet times. So even though there was, I had my children plus foster children

and I had many children a lot of times, but no matter what age they were, I had one that required a lot of sleep, one that required hardly any sleep, and we just had quiet times. So we had an hour of the day that they had to go into their rooms, and if they didn't require sleep, they had to just look at books or color or whatever they were going to do or take a nap or whatever. But that was my time and their time, separated. You could do that even in the evening, after a certain period of time, we need an hour for us to just have quiet time. And from the very time they're small, they catch on to that if you hold to it on a steady type of thing. And it's just routine now. So one hour, you're really not taking away from them that much because what it's going to do for

you and your husband is going to bless the child. I wonder if we can make it special.

Like, oh you never get this treat, but this one hour a night. I give my kids fruit strips during their quiet time. And so they're like, can we go to quiet time and get a fruit strip?

I'm like, of course you can, this is a win-win.

Or like we limit screen time, but for this hour,

or whatever, you know?

Yeah, so they feel special, you know? It doesn't feel like something's being taken away, but something's being added. Yeah, that's a great question.

Yeah.

Cool.

Awesome. So I think we're gonna go ahead,

we're gonna kinda close our time here together. If you guys have other questions, we're going to be in the gym at our booth. You guys can always submit questions. We're on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. You can message us through there. We're the Mom Guilt Podcast. You can find us. We have our logo that's like green that says Mom Guilt. You can also email us any questions at momguiltpodcasts at gmail.com. So we'd love to connect with you guys and to answer any questions as you walk away. Sometimes you're like, Oh, I have this question now. Go ahead and send it to us. We could do an entire episode as a follow up, just responding to all the questions from this conference. And we'd love that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so as we end our time here together, I just really want to remind you guys that God is going to give us exactly what we need to do to do all these accomplished or the all that he's asked us to accomplish right so we can live unburdened by this guilt knowing that to be a good mom to your kids and includes showing love to their dad and your husband so until next time we'll see you later bye we really want to hear from you, listener. If you would be able to email us ways that you are struggling with mom guilt so that we can speak specifically to those topics, we would love to hear from you. If you could email us at momguiltpodcast at gmail.com, we will respond to that and we will, if it's okay with you, read that email on a podcast and specifically address those questions or those topics that you really would like us to speak to. questions or those topics that you really would like us to speak to.

that you really would like us to speak to.




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