Hall of Fame Qualifications - Ep. 153

Justin and Ryan discuss the most recent NFL news. Ryan and Justin debate what it takes to get into the Hall of Fame, as well as, who from the big 3 quarterbacks from the 2004 NFL Draft deserve to be in first.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right, and welcome back to another episode of the Purple Green Show. I am Justin here with Ryan. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Here again.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

A little quiet of the news cycle. So we're we're gonna be digging deep on some different stuff to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

And yeah, they're all this week. They're also kind of waiting for training camps to start, which is another few weeks, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:17

A couple weeks. Two weeks, uh more like three weeks. Three weeks. Some some of them are a little bit earlier than that, but those would be the ones that are playing in the Hall of Fame game. So there's like two teams for that, and then the following spell three weeks for most teams.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Sure. So I never really considered that they must they'd have different starting times based on when your first game would be. Yeah. But it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yeah, basically basically so you can have so much time to get prepped and ready to go, football ready. So all right. Um, so first news, uh, Brendan Sorsby, since we've been talking about it every past couple weeks. Past couple weeks, um, will sit out the 2026 season and be eligible for the 2027 NFL draft. He is not going to pursue suing the NFL.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah. Because they said no.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yep. No, no supplemental draft for him.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

I'd be really curious what this does to his uh how how what his what his ranking is next year's dra, you know, next year's draft if he's for sitting out a whole year. I gotta I have to imagine he's gonna he's gonna have to do a lot of participation in the combine to well, hopefully he gets invited.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Oh, you don't think he'll even get invited? I mean, I don't know, but I'm just saying, like if he doesn't get invited, then it's gonna be like, ooh. You got private workouts and stuff, but teams only get so many of those, so yeah, you know, you start looking and wondering, you know, well, what are you gonna do? So we'll see it. That'll be very interesting. Um to see where all that goes. Um uh Chris Johnson, the running back from the tight for the Titans, the one that CJ2K. Yep, yep. What's his nickname? Former, he was tired, he's been retired a few years now, right? Uh yeah, he's been retired for a little while now. Uh um received a ALS diagnosis or revealed it, I should say. Yeah, only 39, I think, right? Yeah, it's pretty young. Dang. Um, let's see here. What's on the other news? Baker Mayfield still working on trying to get a contract. Um, they're trying to find a middle ground. How much time has he got left on his? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Um I mean, if they're just well, they're working on it, it's probably still a couple years. He's got a year or so, but um he just wants to put more monies.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

I mean, he's not really getting paid at like top dollar right now. So his like his annual amount, uh, where is it?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

He's on their first the first contract that they signed him to.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

No, he he got an extension.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Oh, did he? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Because he only got signed to a one-year deal originally. It was one year like $10 million. Yeah, because it was like right when Brady left, right? Correct, yeah. So let me pull up the history here.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Um I didn't realize his first deal was only a year long.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Yeah, so he was with the Bucks, yeah. Well actually wasn't for very much at all. Maybe, maybe it was a two-year deal, but ultimately it's kind of I mean that'd been like a veteran minimum captain. He got like two million the first year, yeah. So, and then in 2024 he played for his cap number was six point nine. He got a bonus of five point seven and base salary of one point one, so like six. And then twenty twenty-five, which was last year, he had a two million base, eleven point nine million bonus, so ten million dollar roster bonus. That was his new extension, and then it it included this coming year as well. Dang, so he's still pretty low. Yeah. Wow, yeah. So I mean he's only getting so that that's why he wants pay. I mean, he's gonna play way better than that. He deserves a contract extension, in my opinion. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, that's kind of the question. It's just like, okay, well, he kind of deserves one. I don't know why he wouldn't get one.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah. Um he's got an argument for you to being the highest paid quarterback in Florida.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, it looks like his contract value that he signed was a hundred million, thirty-three million a year. That doesn't make any sense with these numbers, though. Unless it's all bonuses.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Could be.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Maybe maybe that's why. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

It doesn't sound right, but for some reason over the low in Tampa.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah. So but yeah, I mean, for what the way he's played, I mean, he deserves to be paid at least 30 some million dollars a year. Probably a little bit more. Probably like 40 to 50. He's got to be higher than Malik Willis at least. He is high. I think he's higher than him right now, but barely. Um, so yeah, just interesting to kind of see where he's at. I I I don't really know why they're resisting so hard to paying him. Because it I mean, he he didn't play as well as last year, but I'm pretty sure he was hurt.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

So I don't know. I can't imagine that they're they have that many that much money problems, can they? Tampa? They're not paying anybody that that highly, are they?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

I don't know how much money they have. Let's take a peek here. Uh Bucks only have 8.3 million left this year. So they don't have a lot of money. Who's the big who's the big one on there for them? One second. Uh and then next year that they have 39.9 next year. So it's still not a tomate.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Middle of the pack, but it that's that's like a number that you would be thinking that they're paying a high quarterback.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Right. Um well Baker Mayfield's his cap number is 39 million this year. Okay. So it okay, so he must be getting paid more than I thought, but still. Uh Tristian Wirf's offensive lineman's 36.3 million. Oh. Chris Godwin is 33 million. Antoine Winfield Jr. is 27. Vita Veya is 22. And then it drops off.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Those guys are, I mean, that takes a lot of money right there. Yeah. Those five guys are I'm a little surprised. Godwin's that high. I wouldn't have guessed that. They gave him an extension um two years ago.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

I mean, like, I know he's solid, but I wouldn't I wouldn't put him that high.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Yeah, I wouldn't either.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Not in terms of cap number, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah, so something we don't.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Uh he's always hurt, is the problem. Uh um, okay, so other news. Um, Terrian Arnold, a first-round draft pick corner for the Detroit Lions two years ago, um, was arrested. Uh, or I should say, Arnold is charged with four counts of kidnapping and four counts of armed robbery.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah. Crazy. Like he was supposedly he was like the ringleader, too, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah. Like this was his thing he was doing. So apparently he, according to investigators, Arnold rented an Airbnb in Largo, Florida, where he periodically stayed with several co-defendants. All got, you know, some 19-year-olds, 26-year-old, 24-year-old, 23-year-old, and 27-year-old. Authorities said other individuals also stayed at the property. And and then the they had three male vic victims, all in their late teens, suffered visible injuries after they allegedly battered, held at gunpoint, and pistol whipped before being robbed and ordered to leave a residence in Tampa. My gosh. Yeah. Guy that's worth millions. Yeah, I mean, he was a first-round draft pick. I just don't understand why that's like and to be fair, he's never played super well. Um, he played 16 games in his rookie season. Uh, he was one of the most penalized uh corners, though, was in rookie season. But yeah, I I don't know. It just feels very weird.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Yeah. And the plus side, it takes away from Josh's bit Jacobs is uh you know as the spotlight for the NFC North legal problem.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

This is true. This is true.

unknown 7:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Now we can at least point to another team like, well, it could be worse. I guess.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Maybe, I don't know. Depends. We'll we'll see what Josh Jacob actually gets charged if he get if he gets charged with anything, which he still has not. So no news really on that front at all.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Which I, you know, I don't know, I don't know if that's good or bad. It depends on how you look at it, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

I mean, some certainty would be nice to know if he's going to get charged or not, because if he doesn't, then okay, great, then the NFL starts moving forward, figuring out their deal. Yep. Otherwise, the NFL's gonna wait, in which case he may not even get suspended this year. Some sometimes he's ended up carrying over to the following season. Could be. Because you're waiting for this to get figured out. So, I mean, maybe it's the beginning of next year. Who knows? So we'll see. I mean, that that would change things drastically for the Packers.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Would change Josh Jacob's value too for fantasy. I mean, if all of a sudden he plays all year, you're he's get he's a steal in the draft right now. He's going the third round. If that well, yeah, I mean he could be going later depending on who you're playing with, but yeah. So definitely uh interesting on that front for sure. Um other NFC North news, um Caleb Williams uh attempted uh attempted to trademark Iceman. As a nickname. Caleb Williams? Yes. I didn't know he was known as Iceman. Is he? Yeah. It was getting thrown around by some people. Uh apparently his initial attempt uh was refused.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

I thought like Joe Burrow was something like Ice Iceman or something like that. Am I making that up?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Um no. You think of Maddie Ice? Matt Ryan? Maybe maybe that's what it's like. I don't think he ever tried to nick like you know, finish market. Um I think Joe Burrow is like Joe Cool. No, I don't know. No, that's Joe Namath. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

What a silly thing to do. So I didn't even know that was a thing people did. I mean it makes sense, I guess, how you could make money off the you know, merchandise or something, I guess. Yeah. Or at least prevent other people from making money off the merchandise.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I don't think I've ever heard him called that.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Okay, so for um Joe Burrow, Joe Cool. Okay. Is actually one of them, so I yeah, I think I said that right.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

So I guess that's why I was thinking Icy, because you know, cool.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah, Joey B, which I've heard a lot. Um the rest of these I've never really heard. So yeah. But is have you heard have you heard Caleb Caleb Williams getting called was Iceman? I have. Yeah, there was some announcers that kind of gave him the nickname, and I think he decided he wanted to run with it. However, so apparently there there's two other um there's applications by two other like sports people in in the history for Iceman? Yes. George Gavin and an NBA Hall of Famer. I'm sorry, George Gervin. Read that wrong. Okay. Um and also there's a trademark possessed by UFC Hall of Famer Chuck Liddell. That's kind of the one I was thinking of. But neither of those apparently were the reason that it was denied. Apparently, it has too much similarity and likely confusion with the trademark filed in 1988 by lacrosse footwear for insulated boots. Like, okay. That's funny. So apparently the nothing to do with anything. Apparently, he has some kind of symbol or something like that that he must be trying to do. He's got a logo? I don't know. That's what I'm trying, that's what I'm kind of picking up from this. But apparently these marks are identical in appearance and sound and meaning. Oh man. That's what they wrote in the refusal letter. But the um let's see. Uh yeah, it was it was for trademarks for athletic bags, water bottles, sporting goods, stuff like that, clothing. Gosh. That's funny. I like that. I don't know. So I'm just like, alright. Yeah. We'll see where that goes, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Um they still working on their stadium deal, too. Oh yeah. That's still an ongoing ongoing fiasco.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Still waiting to find out what happens exactly. Because I mean, like, they had kind of said pretty much right that they were planning on going to Illinois or Iowa. Indiana. Indiana. That's what I was saying. Something with an eye. A state with a US state with an eye.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

They're all right next to each other, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

No, no, I was confused. Always got me when I was a little younger. Um because that was that was like the plan, right? But like they're still like, maybe not.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Maybe not. There there was a bill introduced by some representative in Illinois that was going to try to get them some of the tax breaks that they want. Who knows? Not bizarre.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

I mean, I get it, you know. Like we don't think we we talked about it too. It's it's a big deal for those places to be able to get you know that much tourism on a weekly basis. For sure. You know, third of the year.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah. Yep. No, I I agree. Um, all right. Uh other news around the Packers. Uh the Vikings news is pretty light too.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Um, but yeah, I think it's pro for Vikings, it's just more rumors about you know starting QB, which is been nonstop. It's all the same stuff regurgitating at this point.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Um, no, the uh Packers have supposedly been linked to or is the leading candidate for Jadavian Clowney. Okay, who's 33 years old, pass rusher. Yep. It would make a lot of sense for the Packers to get the case.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah, especially if they're if they're thinking that Park Pars Parsons might be a ways uh further out than they were hoping.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, I mean some somebody to just assist for a little while, at least. Even if he's not, you know, he can't make it the full year, whatever, some some would help. Somebody to sub in to Micah's Parsons there, like just a guy that that you can rotate in to pass rush, it helps to keep those guys fresh. There we go. That's the word I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

I know it was like it was pretty scary, like scary with like uh I think Detroit did it really well. Like some of like the like the two-minute drives, like they were just constantly cycling those guys. Patriots did this last year, Patriots made the best team offs.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

During the playoffs, they rotated every play.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah, and I was like, and as just as annoying as that would be to be those guys, like you know, you're constantly facing fresh guys and then different different lineups. I'm sure that's confusing for the offensive linemen.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Well, yeah, everybody all of a sudden a new guy comes in, he's got different moves from the last guy. You know, you're getting attacked.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

He might be lining up in a slightly different, you know, different way. He might approach in a different, different style.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yep, yep. Yeah. Um, yeah, so that that's kind of the news out there right now. We'll see if that happens or doesn't. I don't know. Um yeah, I've got uh I did talk about with this with this next one with Bobby a little bit last week uh before we before we went to golf. But how'd you do? Huh? How'd you do? How did I do what? Golfing. I played all right. I don't I'm trying to remember what I scored last week. 39? I think that's pretty good, right? I think that's yeah, I think I shot at 39, yeah. So what like a 36 is par? 35 is par where I was playing. Oh but yeah, so four, I was four over.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Like it's not bad. I'll I'll take it. So um, so here's the question. Sure. This player is now eligible for the Pro Football Hall of Fame this year. Okay. For the first time. So this is the big debate. How long does a player have to be good for to be considered for the Hall of Fame?

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

If they're really, really good at their peak, but they didn't last very long, is that enough to get you to the Hall of Fame? Like a Barry Sanders? Barry Sanders was 10 years. So the the player that's now eligible um is Todd Gurley. Oh. So Todd Gurley played just six-he is an interesting one. He played just six seasons walking away at age twenty six due to chronic knee injuries.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, he got hurt, he was hurt a lot.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yep, during his prime, I mean, he was very good.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah, no, he was he was probably the best best one of the best running backs in the NFL at that at that time, right? Oh, for sure. Yeah. I would I would say so. Yeah, I mean who else was was Adrian Peterson that they overlap?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

A little, but not I mean, 2015 to 2020. That was towards Peterson. 2012 was Peterson's like MVP year.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

So Peterson was probably still going for the big at the beginning of Todd Gurley's career. Okay. But I don't think he was going to be. He was not quite at the same level. He played almost all through that whole time frame.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah. Peter Peterson played for forever.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

But that's because he needed money.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

That too.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Let's pull him up. Let's pick Peterson up really quick to see when he when he three when he played until.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Mm-hmm. Because he's and I don't think he's eligible yet, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Nope, he played longer than Todd Gurley. He played 2021.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah, so he's coming up.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Todd Gurley played till he'll be the following year.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Um, but Todd Gurley's this is Todd Gurley's first year. He was 2020 when he ended. Um let's see, Peterson's last thousand yard season was 2018. And he had almost 900 in 2019. So he had two good years there.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

So is there is there actually any kind of minimum minimum playing time?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

There's no minimum playing time set. You're eligible for five years afterward. So the pla the player that would draw the closest can comparison would be Gail Sayers.

unknown 17:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Running back for the Bears. So Gail Sayers played for seven years. And you said Curly's at six? Curly played six. Okay. So uh I I know you probably don't know ton about Gail Sayers. No. He was dominant when he played. When when did you play during? Uh 90 1965 to 1971.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah, before my time, I think.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

A bit, a bit. But essentially, um, I mean, he had he had 2,000 yard seasons rushing, all in you know, in 14 games. Wow versus the 16 games, right? Yeah. Um, and he had three more 800-yard rushing seasons. Wow. And a total he had 39 touchdowns, and he had um, let's see, he had where is it? Nine nine receiving touchdowns. So he had 4,900 yards rushing in his career along as well, well with 1,300 receiving yards.

unknown 18:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Okay. So Todd Gurley, so and Gail Sayers is in the Hall of Fame. Okay. Just to be clear. Um, Todd Gurley. How long did it take him to get in, do you know? I don't know if he was the first ballot Hall of Famer or not. That is a great.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

That might be a weird stat to be able to find.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

So he he did so those two years he went over a thousand, he led the league in rushing those years. He also had sixteen hundred scrimming yards in one year he had twelve hundred yards. Wow. So, and 14 games.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

So that's yeah, that's that's very good. That's very good. Especially at the end that time period and stuff, you know. They didn't have quite the you know the cleats and stuff they do now.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah, his his rookie season he had 20 total touchdowns. Dang. Yeah, so he was very, very good um coming in. Um God, where I'm trying to see if there was on this page if he was first ballot hall of famer or not.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Um Yeah, hard to tell even if did they have the same like five-year waiting period then?

SPEAKER_00 19:14

I believe they did. Um I just want to find see if I can find it here.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

He had five first team all pros. In seven years, that's pretty hard.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Yeah, I mean, yeah. Um so he was I don't know what does that even mean? It gives you a number. I'm like, I don't I don't know what that means. Just like a just like a single-minute number. No, like 88 is like a score. I'm like, I don't even know what that means. He's like 19th among running backs in the Hall of Fame. I don't I don't they're probably just like a rating that they're coming up with somehow.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah, yeah. How would you even rate them? How do you compare?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Uh first ballot Hall of Famer. Here we go. Yes, he was a first ballot Hall of Famer. Okay. Okay. So how does Gurley compare? He at just 34 years old, he remains the youngest player ever inducted into the Hall of Fame. Wow. That's pretty cool, too. Yeah. So Gurley's stats. Obviously, he so just for frame or reference, Gail Sayers played in, obviously he played one more season, but that does not mean more games. Yep. Um, he played in uh 68 games, 65 he started. Todd Gurley played in 88 games, 87 started. Okay. So Todd Gurley has 6,082 yards in his total in total. In the seven years? In the seven, in six years for Todd Gurley. Uh Gale had 49,500. Okay. 49,050. Um, and then receiving yards, Todd Gurley had 2,254 receiving yards. Gail Sayers had 1,300. And then in terms of total touchdowns, Todd Gurley had 79 total touchdowns. Wow. Gail Sayers had 48. God. So 79 total touchdowns in 88 games. I forget how awesome he was. He was dominant.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

I remember I remember him being very scary.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

At the at his peak, uh 2017, he was second in MVP voting. Um, he was a three three-time all all pro, first team all pro. He had 19 total touchdowns and 2,093 total scrimmage yards. Who beat him for MVP? Yeah. A quarterback, 2017. 2017. There hasn't been anybody but quarterback since 2012. Yeah, but no, I'm curious. I want to know. Yeah. Um, and then the following year in 2018, he followed it up with 21 total touchdowns and 1,800 scrimmage yards. Oh Tom Breed. Yeah, that makes sense. I think they won the Super Bowl that year, actually. Against the Rams. Um, so the question is, and I can share Bobby's opinion. Bobby's opinion was no, he's not in the Hall of Fame. Ooh, at all? At all. Wow. Just not quite good enough. I'm dang. Okay. So that was Bobby's opinion. His 79 total touchdowns in 88 games are the most in NFL history for any player with fewer than 100 career appearances.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

That's really good.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah, so that's that's so that's where the debate do you have to play for a certain amount of time?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I I think even if even if you do, I think six years is enough. I mean, and he was dominant for the whole time, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

So scrimmage yards, rookie season, almost 1,300, 10 total touchdowns. Second season, he had only 1200, he had 1,200, uh, six total touchdowns. That was his bad year. Then he had his 2,000 yard season, total this is total scrimmage yards, 19 touchdowns, 1,800 scrimmage yards, 21 total touchdowns, 1,000 total scrimmage yards, 14 total touchdowns, and then his one year in Atlanta, he had 800 total yards and nine touchdowns. Which I'm sure he spent a lot of that year hurt. He played in 15 games. Oh, so he played the year then. They started limiting his attempts. He was down to 195 rushing attempts, you know, in 25, 35 targets.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I'm surprised he's like his games are that high. I remember him being hurt like a lot. So I guess the rookie season wasn't that much played.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

He played in 13 games of rookie season. He played in 16 as second, 15 as third, 14, 15, 15. Yeah, so he just missed. He was playing like the whole year pretty much. Two or three games basically a year he was missing.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah, I I I feel like I remember him getting hurt like a all the time. But I guess that's not wasn't the case. I yeah, I guess. Unless he was leaving leaving games part way through or something all the time. Right, yeah. Yeah, I mean, like I I would imagine he's haul you he'd be a Hall FM eligible. I don't know, like probably not like first ballot, because I know there's a lot of really good players that still haven't gotten in.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Correct, right. I don't think it'd be a first ballot right now, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

But God, I would I would think within a couple years he'd be in.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah, I'm trying to look up who's the other players that didn't play for very long.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah. What do you think, Justin?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

What is your opinion? I think he should be. I mean, look, if you look at the comparison to Gail Sayers, obviously Gail Sayers played in a different time, different football, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Higher scoring league now. Yeah, you pretty much gotta comp you'd have to compare them against like who they were playing against at the time.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Yeah, I mean yeah, and that's kind of where I'm that's kind of where I'm at.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

But like like you said, Gurley was dominant for like five of the six years he played. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

And he was still good in the other year. He's had 800 total scrimmage yards.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

That's that's solid, especially being on a new team and stuff. And he was obviously wasn't feeling very good if he retired right then, too. Right, he retired right after that.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Who the heck is Max Speedy?

SPEAKER_01 25:10

No, no, but he sounds fast.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Well, so these are guys the the the guys that play the fewest seasons. Otto Graham only played six seasons? Is this right?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Oh, questioning immediately.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Well like okay. It says he played three years and he just got inducted in the hall of fame in 2020. Never heard of this guy. So that's why I'm like, okay. Uh okay, and I gotta figure out who Max Speedy is.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

So he played only played three years and he got into the Hall of Fame?

SPEAKER_00 25:41

That's what it says.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Oh, a coach? Dang, that'd be really crazy.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Okay, so Max Speedy was inducted to the Hall of Fame in 2020 as part of the special centennial class honoring the NFL's 100th anniversary. Okay. The legendary Cleveland Browns receiver had a dominant but relatively short NFL career. From playing from 1946 to 1952. Yeah, that's longer than okay, that's six years. He caught he had 33 touchdowns, 5,600 yards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Six all pro. Okay, so he clearly played longer than that. But now, yeah, but still not a very long time. Okay, so I'm gonna avoid the people I don't recognize in terms of names, because having trouble trusting that. Didn't like Dorsey Levin not play for very long?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

But yeah, he's not in the Hall of Fame, though. Yeah, but he didn't play very long, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

No. Um hold on, I want to see autogram how long he played. Uh, okay, so he only played six seasons in the NFL, but Cleveland was spent four years in the AAFC before that. So he played for 10 years. So whether or not they consider that, I don't know. But that's also kind of a different story. Okay. Um, let's see. Uh Terrell Davis played seven seasons. He's in the Hall of Fame. He had 8,800 yards, 65 touchdowns, 65 total touchdowns. That seems very on par with Curly. I mean, and in a time that, you know, they were running more in the 90s than they are now.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Yeah. So Yeah, so that that that's pretty close to. Yeah, I would imagine like he's he's for sure like should get in at some point.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah, I mean, Sterling Sharp is another good example. He just got inducted last year.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

He was actually pretty short too, wasn't he? Seven years. Seven years?

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, he he was along those same lines, like 8,200 receiving yards, 66 total touchdowns. I mean, wide receiver, and he was dominant. I mean, to me, yeah, I know a slightly different time period. It took him a while.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

That's pretty close.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

That obviously took him a while to get in. Yeah. What like 10 years? His last year was 1995. It took 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

20 years. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Yeah, he was he was a long time. Terrell Davis only took seven years. So he wasn't a first ballot either. Yeah. I don't think. Um, I know I gotta look. Terrell Davis, when was his last season? I must I thought he was done right around 2000. So he just got in? He got in in 2017. Oh, yeah, yeah. So was that right? 2017. Yeah, 2017. He finished in 2001. So it took him 16 seasons to get in. So I feel like he'll get there at some point.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah, but it might be 10 plus. Yeah. It might be a while. Which I mean, like, that's fine. I think that's fine. There's a lot of very good players, yeah. Older players that should get in. I think he deserved to get in, though. I really do. I think so too. I think so too. Short of like some really like crazy, like, you know, like even like even yeah, like eventually he should be get in.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Mm-hmm. He was dominant.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

He was so good. Like that, like you said, like those stats speak for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Oh, for sure. Yeah, he led the league in rushing touchdowns two times, total touchdowns, both those same years.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

So does Bobby think there's just like you need to be playing longer, or does he just not think he was good enough?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

He he thinks he needed to play a little longer. Bobby and I did not go down the path of Terrell Davis, the comparison, Sterling Sharp. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Um that's interesting though, because I mean, like, what if he'd played another like four years, but he'd been average those four years.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Right. To me, that almost makes it worse. Yeah. Because then it's like, oh, maybe he wasn't that good.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah. Like that just let lowers your average then.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know. I mean you've got uh guy did a lot of stuff. Never mind. I was gonna I was I was pulling up another name that was on the list for six seasons.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

I know, I was I was trying to think of somebody recent too who like who was really good for only a short time. There's not many. The one name I was thinking was like Reggie Bush, but he wasn't ever that good. Patrick Willis played eight seasons.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Um he just got into the Hall of Fame in 2024. Oh, I'm not seeing any other names that I'm like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Um how long did Marshawn Lloyd play for?

SPEAKER_00 30:28

He played for quite a while, actually.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Did he play for quite a while? I mean, I I figure I figured it was like 10 years or something, he probably played for. And I I asked Bobby about uh Marshawn Lloyd because I said, Well, what about Marshawn Lloyd?

SPEAKER_00 30:38

And he's like, No, Marshawn Lloyd.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Really?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Beast mode doesn't get in the Hall of Fame? Marshawn Lynch, not Lloyd. Marshawn Lloyd plays with the Packers right now. Oh, yeah. He hasn't done anything. Yeah, yeah, no, he he hasn't earned it yet. So Marshawn Lloyd played from 2007 to 2019. He skipped one year in there. He retired for a year. And then came back to the Raiders for two seasons and then one. Okay. He came back, he played 15 games at the Raiders the one year, played six the next year with the Raiders, and then came went back to Seattle for one year, played in one game.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Just to basically retire. Retire as a as a Seahawk, then.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Yeah. I mean, and he had more yards than I thought he did. He had four straight seasons, 1200, 1500, 1200, 1300 yards rushing. So that's pretty good, actually.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

I would think, especially running back, you should be a little more sympathetic to a shorter career. I would agree, yes. It feels like it feels like their life, their life expectancy in the NFL is not as high as some of the other positions.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

No, I I would definitely agree with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Even recently, where like players are playing until they're older and older and older, like running backs aren't.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

No, no, they're not. Yeah, they still the age is still pretty much the same, right around 30, unless you're really good.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yeah. Yeah, you have to be like a true monster, like a Derrick Henry of the world to play longer.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

And I mean, like Derrick Henry, I I have to think he gets into how do you spell Derrick Henry's name? There he is. So many different iterations of Derek. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Like, ah. How many hours? Is it a CK?

SPEAKER_00 32:09

So he's been in the league for 10 years. And I will say right now, I'm confident he will be a Hall of Famer. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. He has 13,000 total yards. He's got a 2,000 yard season in there. He's got two 2,000 total scrimmage yard seasons in there. I mean, and he's got 122 rushing touchdowns, 127 total touchdowns. He should probably be like first ballot Hall of Famer. Ah, yeah. I'm gonna say probably. Some of the workloads he's had. I mean, 378 carries.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Yeah, I mean, just rushing attempts is is bananas.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Nobody's putting up, nobody's always doing those kind of numbers and still playing that long.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

To be fair, he did not play much his first two years in the NFL.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

He was under 200 attempts. Yeah, but I mean he cut those years off and he's still eight. Yeah, dominated. Yeah, it's since then, since his first two seasons, he's only been under a thousand yards one year, and he only played eight games that year, and he had 937 rushing yards in eight games.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yeah, like that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

He still almost broke a thousand. Yeah. And he did break a thousand scrimmage yards.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

So yeah, he only has he only has 24 fumbles in his career. Wow. That's pretty good. That's very good. I feel I feel like although he had one, he had one season with six.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

That's quite a few, but that makes City almost more impressive. I know. I know, right? Because they'd have to have that many in one year and still have so few in a career. Yeah, I mean, Todd Gurley had 16. Especially for a bruiser running back where your job, you're just running into people on purpose. Right, yeah. You're not even trying to dodge them anymore. But you got his stiff arm, man.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

His stiff arm just throws people. It'll yeah, it'll be interesting to see um if Todd Gurley gets in or not. I don't think he'll get in this year.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

I think it'll take a while. Um especially going through some of those other numbers of like, you know, comparable players and how long they had to wait. Yeah. But yeah, I'd be I'd be shocked if he never got in. You know. Like I know we talked about like, you know, like Eli Manning or something like that. Does he ever get in? You know, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised either way, really. But Gurley, I think I would be surprised if he didn't.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Yeah. I talked Bobby out of the so he and I, Bobby and I went to the Eli Manning next. Oh, did you? I was part of our conversation. Oh my god. And it's like I'm psychic or something like that. Well, and it was you know, we were looking and we're like, okay, you know, what do we look what do we look at here? Like Because he's got Super Bowl wins. He's like, well, he's got two Super Bowl wins. I was like, I get that, but that doesn't make you a Hall of Famer.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

No.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

You have to He's like, but he played really well in the playoffs. I'm like, yeah, in the playoffs. If you go look at his stats, he has a 500 winning record.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

He's an average, but he's an average quarterback.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

He didn't he did not win more games than he lost.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah, he's yeah, he's an average quarterback with very good postseason success. Yeah. With with on some very good teams.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah, it's crazy to me. Um Did you fall on no for Eli? I fell on no. I don't think he is. At least not yet. He's gonna have to wait a little while. I know he didn't know he was eligible last year.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Yeah. He already wasn't a first time first time.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

So let's put it this way. Should Phillip Rivers be in? Philip Rivers to me was a better quarterback than Eli Manning. Yeah, but he didn't win any Super Bowls.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

It's it's it Super Bowl is always kind of a funny stat like to even to bother looking at.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

It's still part of your team. I mean, it matters because you're the quarterback, especially if a quarterback is.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Quarterback, especially, maybe it would fluctuate it'd matter more, but it's still just like one game.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Ben Rothesberger? I to me, I think he's a Hall of Famer over Eli.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

It's it's so tough because like to me, the like a Hall of Fame player is just like the top guy in the league, you know?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

And like Big Ben was always a good player, but like I never really considered him like that one of the top players, you know. No, I I know I agree. Same with Eli. Like, like, are they good? Yeah. But you know, there's a reason they had such a long career in the NFL. Like, they were never like I never considered them to be like one of the top top players in the league at that moment. And I know that's not what the Hall of Fame is. It's just like, what do you have for stats and stuff at that, pretty much? Kinda, yeah. And how much do the people like you?

SPEAKER_00 36:24

So here's the big three comparison. And obviously, Philip Rivers just played this last year, so he's not even gonna be eligible for another five years. Yeah. But um, so here's the real the three comparison is Eli Manning, Ben Rothesberger, and Philip Rivers. All were drafted in the same season. Same NFL draft. So Ben Rothesberger played for 18 years. All with the Steelers. All with the Steelers. He had 64,000 career passing yards, a record of 165 wins and 81 losses in one tie, and 418 touchdowns.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

So he had like a two to one winning ratio?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Over two to one. Over two to one?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Yeah. Eli Manning, his QB record was 117 and 117. Okay. In the regular season. 57,000 passing yards. So 7,000 less. Yeah. He played for 16 years. So two years less. Two years less, which which is it could be about that. About that, yeah. 366 touchdowns. So about 50 less.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah, which would be two very good years, but it could be two years.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Uh his so Eli Manning's best years passing, 27 touchdowns, 25 touchdowns, 20 touchdowns.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah. So probably not getting there. So probably not, but he would you'd be close with two more of those years.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

I'm sorry, those were interceptions. Sorry. Okay, so he did have a year, he had a 35 year, a 30, and a 31 in there.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Okay, so it's it's within his range of getting that within two more years.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

But he had 244 interceptions. Ben Rothesburger had 211. That'd be two very bad years of interceptions. Well, no, Ben Rothesberger has less.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Oh, yeah, yeah. It was less. It was less. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

He's 30 less.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

All right. Now to comparative Philip Rivers. So Philip Rivers.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Oh, you said his win win loss was like the same, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

117, 117. Yep, yep, yep. So not good. Uh, needless to say. Um, Phillip Rivers. So he did retire for four years and was a high school head coach. He played for 18 seasons. Okay. Before he came back?

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Or is that counting the year he came back?

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Counting all of the years. Okay. Let me just make sure. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

I thought him and Rothelsberger retired at about the same time, too. Okay, so 18.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Now, his first two seasons, he didn't play.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

He was behind um Drew Brees. Drew Brees, right? Yeah. Yes. So before they moved to the room.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

He basically did not play. He played in two games, never started a game.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Okay. So it's almost basically 16 years.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Pretty much 16 years. And this last year he only played three games. Because he came in at the end of the year. 15 years. 15 seasons. 15 year seasons, really, of actually playing. Not even counting injuries or anything. So he has a uh winning record of 134 to 109.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

So pretty good. Not as good as Ben Big Ben. So he's positive, but now we're close to what Big Ben was doing. He has total passing yards of 63,900. So right behind Big Ben. Yeah. When in quite a few less seasons in terms of games. Yep. So 247 games he played in. Ben Rothesberger played 249.

unknown 39:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

So two more games. Yeah. And that counts four games that um Philip Rivers didn't really do much. Um so because those those first two seasons he came in in relief effort.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

So call it 243. So almost the exact same. 425 touchdowns. Ben Rothasberger has 418. So he has more than Ben Rothasberger. 212 interceptions. Ben Rothesberger has 211. So comparable? So to me, their stats are very comparable. Ben Rothesberger and Phillip Rivers. Winning records not quite there. To be fair, the Steelers had they were better teams. They were just better teams. The Chargers, they're a better run organization. Yeah, yeah. Let's be real. They just are. But yeah, they had good seasons. I mean, Phillip Rivers, let's put it this way. I'm not going to count this last one when he came in and went 0-3 with the Colts in terms of a losing record. I mean, he did, but like losing seasons, he had one, two, three, four. Four losing seasons, a couple 500 seasons in there.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah, which means like since he didn't wasn't super positive on win rate, that's like he had a lot of very like 500-ish seasons.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Yeah, they were all nine and seven. They were nine and seven a lot and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Eli Manning, uh, so in terms of losing seasons, I can throw out the first one. His first year, he only started seven games. Oh, yeah. He went one and he went one and six, though. To be fair. Um he went, let's see, in terms of losing seasons, he didn't have one barring that first year until his like tenth year in the league. Nice. But then he went seven and nine, six and ten, six and ten. Uh after Coughlin? I think so, yeah. Or is Coughlin still there at that point? Uh that was in 2013. Coughlin probably got fired in that stretch. Oh, probably. Somewhere in there. Um, they had a good 2016, then he went three and twelve in 2017 and 5-11 in 2018. Oh. So he had a good start to his career. Yeah. And then the last year he played and only played four games, four games. He was one and three in those games. You look at Big Ben, he never had a losing record in a season. Oh no, I take that back. He played only two games in 2019. He lost both of those games. Yeah, he got super hurt, didn't he? He got hurt, yeah. He didn't play the whole year basically. That's when the yeah. And then he came back for two more years. No, that was way earlier in his career. That was a motorcycle accident. Oh, okay. Um, but the uh that was the his shoulder, I think he had problems with his shoulder that year. But but yeah, I mean it's hard to know because obviously he was on a much better team all the way through and through. They had better defenses, all that, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:34

That's always the problem comparing stats, because like even though you're comparing the same stat, you know, there's still there's so many players that affect that stat.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Yep. So Eli had four Pro Bowls. Okay. It's not much, I don't feel like no. Ben Rothesberger had one, two, three, four, five, six. Six Pro Bowls.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Because I mean, what would what would we say that just like Gurley had he was like all pro like every year?

SPEAKER_00 42:58

He was all pro for three, all pro for three years. Yeah. You want to go all pro. Um uh I don't think either of these guys were first team all pro ever.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Probably kind of hard to do in a in a league with uh Ben Rothesberger right Ben Rothlessburg.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Ben Rothesberger was rookie of the year, his rookie season. Okay um uh let's see, Philip Rivers had one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight Pro Bowls. Um and he was in some voting for he was a comeback player of the year uh in 2013 as well. Who was uh Philip Rivers. Philip Rivers was okay. But and he didn't even miss games the year before, he was just hurt, or not hurt, he just didn't play well. So uh, but yeah, I mean you go look at like those guys. To me, that that's the fascinating one for me. These three guys because they all got drafted the same year, yeah, same draft class, very comparable, you know, easier, easier to compare at least. But Ben Rothesberger has two touchdowns, Eli Manning has two touchdowns. Philip Rivers has none. Super Bowls. Super Bowls, yes. What did I say? Touchdowns. Oh, yeah. They got more than that. So I don't know. For me, like I don't know. Just because Eli Manning won Super Bowls to me doesn't mean he was honestly the win rate really reflects poorly on him. Yeah. And I get that's a team part of the team thing, but so is the Super Bowl part.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Yeah. So I know that when the win rate thing also kind of shadows uh Rivers then too, but oh here you go.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Also, this is a fun stat. How many playoff wins do you think Eli Manning had in years that they didn't win the Super Bowl? So they made so here you go. I'll tell you this. They made the playoffs one, two, three, four, five, six times. Okay. They only made the playoffs six times in his career. And out of those six, two of them, they went the whole way. They went the whole way to the Super Bowl. So don't count those.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

How many wins did he have outside of those two seasons? In the four or other attempts, how many wins? Um I guess like two. I don't think they I think they got knocked out early pretty much every other time.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

None. He didn't have a single playoff win.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

So they either won every game or they lost immediately. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

It's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Yeah. That's like uh Minnesota levels or like statistics or something.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Kinda, yeah. I mean, and then you got Big Ben. I mean, they were in the playoffs almost every year.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Yeah. Again, like they didn't have to be in the playoffs.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

They're gonna play twice, right? Yeah, uh, yeah. They won the Super Bowl twice. Um he did win games in other years, right? That Phil Rivers obviously didn't make it to the Super Bowl. Um, but he did make the playoffs seven years. So actually more than uh more than Eli. More than Eli. And he he didn't have as many wins, but they obviously didn't go as far, so it's hard to compare that. He didn't get to play as many games. But yeah, I don't know. That's kind of interesting. I don't okay. Of those three, Philip Rivers, would you put him in the Hall of Fame? And whether or not he's first ballot. Eventually, eventually not first ballot. No, okay. I agree. I think eventually I think he belongs in there. Yeah. I just don't think right away.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

I think given even if they were the word all go in at the same time, which of course they're not. Yeah. If they were, it would be um Rothlesburger goes uh gets first for sure, and then Rivers, and then eventually maybe Eli, if ever.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

I I agree, yeah. I that's kind of where I'm at. And even Rothlesberger, I mean, like so Rothesburger will be eligible next year. So to me, Eli can't get in before him, even though he retired before him. He's he's I don't even know if Rothlesberger's first ballot.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Is he? I mean, like he probably is win rate's very impressive.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

It is.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Yeah. So maybe maybe that's enough.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

I think it's probably enough to get him there in the two Super Bowls and you know all that.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

I mean Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

I but to me, he like can't get in until Rothasberger gets in. Because they were drafted in the same year. I understand he like stopped playing sooner, but yeah. And nothing in comparison there. I'm like, nah, he can't get like he just can't be in before him. It just doesn't feel right. Yeah, I get that. Um, and then Philip Rivers to me was a better player all around. Yeah. Eli had his moments where he was really good at for like points in time.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Eli was always almost always ever just felt like a game manager quarterback. Yeah. Which is good. That wins you that can win you games. The reason they won the Super Bowl multiple times.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Because he can he can manage the game, he can go score enough points.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Yeah. So what what would you say is an elite regular season record for like a record, like a winning record? Like 10 wins, 11 wins, 12 wins.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Yeah, probably 12 on the 16 on the 16-year season, probably like 12.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Yeah. He had 12 wins once.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah, and that's probably Super Bowl year, I imagine.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

No.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

But that wasn't even.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

It was the year after they won the Super Bowl. Oh. Okay. Okay. They they went 0-1 in the playoffs and lost. So Phillip Rivers has one, two, three seasons with more than 12 or more wins. And he has a 14-win season and a 13-win season in there.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

That's very good. That's very good on the 16 games.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Those, I mean, he has some dominant years in there, right? Obviously, they got LT for some of those years, I think. Or Liddell, Antonio Gates and stuff. Yeah, they had weapons, but Eli Manning had some weapons as well.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Yeah. He had the defense.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

And yeah. So Pen Rothesberger did not start his entire rookie year. But he went 13-0 in the regular season. Without starting it, the whole thing? He only started 13 games. He won every one. Yep. So there's one, two, three, four. He had four seasons with 12 plus wins.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

So 16 seasons, 18 seasons. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's still pretty good. Yeah, it's it's pretty impressive. So just for comparison's sake. But yeah. For me, I don't know. I just Elaine Manning just didn't pass the eye test.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

I was gonna ask, like, how much of it is just like a vibes-based thing? For me, it there's a there's a little bit of that. He just wasn't dominant.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

No. No, I just I don't know if that matters. He made some great plays in the Super Bowl, and his receivers, to be fair, made some great plays in the Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Yeah. Like Well, he was he threw the um The helmet catch David Tyree. Odell, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:27

No, David Tyree.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Oh. The helmet catch. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Um, which is where David Tyree caught against his helmet, fell, you know, against to be undefeated.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Did he throw the Beckham one too?

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Where he was like way behind his head. That was his too. Yeah. Um, but then and he threw the Mario Manningham catch in the second Super Bowl against the Patriots, also. I don't know. But to me, though they won those Super Bowls because their defense absolutely dominated Tom Brady and the Patriots. Yeah, and their offense did enough. Right. So that's why I'm like, yeah, they did he did win them, and he did enough to win them.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

And he had some iconic plays. Not to further complicate this, but like, how do you compare these guys to like a Drew Brees? Drew Brees is the first ballot hall favor.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Yeah. In my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

He has the one Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Yep. And because he had a couple stinker years in there, didn't he? Before he left the Chargers.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Um as he was leaving?

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Or was they not were they not actually that bad? Let me look. Because he had some fumble problems, right? I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Um he was fine. He they went two and nine the one year with the Chargers. He was with the Chargers for five years. He was okay. His I mean his stats with in five years, he had a uh where's his yards? 12,000 yards. He was 30 and 28. But then when you go to New Orleans, he's 142 and 86. Yeah, he was a monster there. So he he played 20 years. 172 wins, 114 losses, 80,000 passing yards. So what's impressive though, his completion percentage on his career is 67.7%. Very good. And he has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 seasons of 70% or higher completion percentages. That's insane. I bet you these other guys don't even have one.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Probably not. Probably not. Well, Eli definitely doesn't. No, and I mean like I know uh neither does Big Ben. Yeah. Rivers would have been the one I may I maybe would have thought he might have. I know he he was pretty he was always pretty accurate.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Let me pull him back up. I I'd switched off of his to get to Drew Brees here. Sure. Oh, not two L's. One L. Camel.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Yeah, I can mean like Drew Brees is the other one that I would kind of like lump into them a little bit. Like I think he is he is clearly better than those guys, higher than those guys. Yeah, his his best um uh completion percentage was 69 and a half.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

So he was right there. He's right there, but he never crossed the 70 threshold. Drew Brees did it seven times in 20 years. Which is bananas. His first time being back in 2009. Which is pretty early on to be able to do that. Yeah. He led the league in completion percentage six times. Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Yeah. So I guess that's not easy. He really shouldn't be lumped in with them at all.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

No, I I don't think he's lumped in with them whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

I just think he was another guy who was who played at a roughly the same like in about the same time period, you know, right? Well, here you want to look.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

I mean, how many times did he throw for 5,000 yards? Ooh. One, two, three, four, five. Five times he threw for over five thousand yards. Um, I know Eli Manning never did that. Yeah. I'll tell you that right now. I don't even need to look. I don't have him up anymore. Um Big Vendity did it once. Phillip Rivers, his best was 4792. Oh, so he was he was sniffing at it. Got to 4,700 twice. Yeah. Uh Ben Rothesberger did it once. Okay. 5,129. Yeah. And he had a 4,950 season in there, too. So he was right there. Yep. Yeah, to me, Drew Brees at his peak was just he was better than all three of those guys. Yeah. So to me, he belongs in the Hall of Fame as soon as he is eligible, which is coming up soon, right? This year. Oh. Or was it last year? 2020? No, it'll be this year.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

Let's say there's no way we would we would have talked about if he didn't get in last year.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Yeah, no, so this year is his first year. So to me, he will be the quarterback for sure that gets in this year. He will he has to be a first ballot hall of famer in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

I mean even though he never had an MVP, which is crazy. That is kind of bizarre, considering he led the league multiple times too. Uh he led the league in passing yards seven times.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Yeah. You'd think one of those would get you would get that for you.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Led the league in in in three of those years, he also led the league in touchdowns.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

Yeah, you think you would think he would he should have three MVPs then.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Yeah, well, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

You think that would be enough? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Who knows? That's very, very weird. But yeah. I mean, yeah, he had he had a year with 43 touchdowns, 46 touchdowns, all wobbling over 5,000 yards. That's so many touchdowns. The one year, he had 71 completion percent 71.2 completion percentage, 5,476 yards, and 46 touchdowns. How he didn't win the MVP that year, I I don't know. Oh, that was the Rogers won it. To be fair, Rogers was quite dominant that year. Yeah. Um I'm sure he was second. He was second in the boat. He was second in the boat. He came up second, like I want to say six or seven times. Seven times it makes sense. I mean, yeah, he was there so often, like just crazy number of times that he finished second. Um, let's see. MVP one, two, three, four times he was second in MVP voting. Okay. Still, that's that's painful to never win it once. And Rogers got it four times, right? Yeah. So 2011, Rogers. Rogers only played 15 games because he sat out the last game of the year that year. He only had 4,600 yards and 45 touchdowns. But I believe he added some rushing touchdowns as well in there that uh might have uh because Drew Brees is not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

No. Um let's see. No, and he also had always had a really high completion percentage, and interceptions were always low.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

Well, that's I think that's the difference. If you look at the years, so Rogers had his completion percentage was 68% that year, and he only had six interceptions. I'm guessing Drew Brees had more interceptions that year, and that was probably the I don't know, the tiebreaker. 14 interceptions to six. I mean, it's more, but not that many more. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. I can't believe he didn't win it that year. Rogers shouldn't have won it that year. It's it's comparable though.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

Like it is comparable, but like, yeah, you you'd think he would he should have gotten that one.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

I mean, Rogers added three more touchdowns on the ground, but still. I mean, Truebrees did not add any. He had a rushing touchdown that year. He had one. No, like 86 yards only, but Rodgers had 300 rushing yards. So yeah, but still, yeah. Anyways, so interesting conversation. The Hall of Fame, though, like longevity versus short-term peak performance, like what matters.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Yeah, I would I mean I I would I would I would agree that there there should be some consideration for length, but I would think it's like five years or something. Yeah. You know? Yeah, if you're the if you're dominant enough to like, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like if you're if you were a dominant player, I don't know if it should matter how long. I don't think it should. Yeah, I don't think it should. Especially like if you were cont consistently dominant.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Which if you were like early was if you were awesome for like a year and then fell off hard, yeah, of course not. You know? Ohlah Beckham Jr.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

Yeah. Like we had like one or two years of dominance.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Yeah, like his rookie year, rookie year or sophomore, you're right, he was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

I think both of those years he was, and then he got hurt and then like and never really came back. Yeah, and then he struggled after that, which is like it happens. Technically, he's been in the league for 10 years. Yeah, so it's kind of like around. I I guess he was better for longer than that. His first three seasons he had over 1,300 yards. But then he got hurt.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

I remember I was so I was so proud of that pickup. For some reason, I was just going through the depth trip that year in fantasy of Giants wide receivers. And you're like, yeah, I'll try to. For no reason, they were all bad and they all kept getting hurt, and then I ended up grabbing him off waivers as a as a rookie. Yeah. And he was awesome. He like he lit it up right after that.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Yeah, my my my favorite year in terms of what I drafted, like my my gem in the rough that I picked up. Um, I was in a 10 team league. So to be fair, there's more available. Uh, and it was not it was no PPR. So running backs are at a premium, right? Well, I draft it was this was 2018. Okay. I think I believe. So I drafted Todd Gurley. But it no, it wasn't I should I should go pull it up, but I I didn't draft Todd Gurley. I drafted, I think, Le'Veon Bell. Oh. One of his last really good years. Yeah. And then I took a wide receiver in the second, and Todd Gurley fell to the third, the beginning of the third, because he had a his bad year the year before. Yeah. It was the one like bad year he had. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Or is and by bad, it was like he'd been having nagging knee injuries and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

Yeah, it was like a step back, and you're like, ah, maybe he's not as good as we thought. Yeah. And then he came back with a vengeance, and that's when he like leapt into his really good seasons. So I had those two guys. And then after week like two, I picked up Alvin Kamara. Oh. Early Kamara. His rookie season. When he because he loaded up his rookie season. So I had those three guys as my and it was just insane.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

It's always kind of fun. Like, I don't, I don't, like fantasy like football, like they don't it doesn't hang hold hang with me much, like through from year to year. Yeah. But like those like really like gem like pickups, yeah, those stick with you.

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Oh, for sure. It was 2017.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

So, but yeah, like Kamara ended up with 700 rushing yards and 81 catches for 800 receiving yards and 13 total touchdowns for a waiver wire pickup. So I had him in my flex, and I had Le'Veon Bell and Todd Gurley as my like two top running back. I won every game in the playoffs by 40 plus points. No joke. I believe it. So yeah, Todd Gurley, that that that 2017 was his 2,093-yard scrimmage yards with 19 touchdown year. So coming off of his year before we only had 885 yards. Yeah rushing. So it was like it was like the step back. Let's see if I can find Le'Veon Bell here. Just to like put this in like it was just I was dominant. I do I beat every I didn't even have good wide receivers. It didn't matter. It did not matter. Um 2017. This was his last year before his contract dispute, by the way, too. He led the league in touches. He had 1,900 yards from scrimmage and 11 touchdowns. It wasn't even like crazy good, but I mean you compound that with Todd Gurley's 2,000 yards, Kamara's 1,600 yards.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

Yeah. Like Yeah, you know, he doesn't he doesn't need to be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

I I had three players put up almost 6,000 total yards. They were probably all top five running backs that year. They were. Yeah. They were the one, two, and four, I think. So I had the one, two, and four running backs on the year or something like that. It was just stupid. It was it was not fair whatsoever. I don't even know what the rest of my team was because it did not matter. It didn't matter. Those three players that were all that major they were in. They were in my lineup every week. Yeah. And then I just walked through the year. No problem. It was crazy. But yeah. So um any other thoughts before we uh sign off for the week?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

I got I got one little thought that I had. I remembered I had it earlier in the week. I was kind of like, oh, that'd be interesting. I was thinking like how bait you know how baseball has like the minors. Yeah. Should the NFL institute a system like that as well? You know, a place for players to go before they make the actual roster. Some place to put your rookies.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

Yeah, I mean, that's what the practice squad is, kind of.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

Yeah. But it's not like a full thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

It's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

The problem with football is it's too they they hit there it's too many, too many injuries.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Too many injuries, and you you don't really want them playing games at that like you know what I mean? Like you you want them to play games and get experience, but you don't want them to play like so much that they get hurt. And yeah. So I feel like that's where the practice squad works for the NFL because those guys can sit there and and learn alongside the team. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

But that's kind of thinking, like, almost like like I don't know how much longer like the UFL, right, was gonna actually gonna stay around. But that's almost like that's getting into it. Besides, you know, like certain teams don't own other teams. You don't own the other teams, yeah. And you don't have like rights.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

Yeah, well, MLB has got rights to the players. And and and basketball, I think, does the same thing with the G League. Do they? I didn't know yeah. I think they have like teams that they're connected to, I think. I could be wrong on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I just I was I was I I heard heard something about like how like so like oh this you know this baseball player is you know this came up came up from the minors, and it was like I'm surprised that's the only that's the only you know sport that really does that. But like I said, I don't think it would work for football. I think injury injury risk is too high. Yeah, I agree. And like I know with like baseball, like a lot of times, like, oh yeah, they it takes them a year or whatever, but like football, like it rarely takes them that long to No, it doesn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

That's the thing. It's like I feel like baseball sometimes it takes a long time for that prospect to pan out. Yeah, they're also younger. Yeah. When they go to baseball and like um basketball. Yeah, they're like 18 and 19 year olds versus versus 21, 22, 23 year olds that you're getting in the NFL.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

That's true. Sometimes in that regard, almost college is the minor leagues.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

It kind of is, yeah. And they get paid now too, so yeah. More than what the MLB pays their probably minor leagues. Oh, I'm con some of those the at least the really good players, because the really good ones are getting like millions of dollars in college, and I will tell you, trip triple A and stuff, I don't think they're making millions. No, at least most of them aren't.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

It would be kind of funny though, if like for the like the NFL, just like it's like some you know wide receiver drops a few passes, like send them down, you're getting busted back down to college, boy. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

Go back to college, learn how to catch.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

Yeah, we'll bring you back up in a few weeks. Oh, yeah, that'd be funny. That would be funny. I'd like that. Oh so all right. No, I think that's all I don't think I had anything else. Cool. Well except that Travis Kelsey might be getting married soon. Might be getting I think he is getting married soon, isn't he? Yeah, but they don't they don't know when. Oh, the date hasn't it's a secret. Ah, it'll get leaked at some point. It will, but it's a secret currently. So all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

Well, thanks for listening, everybody, and we will talk to you next week. Yeah. All right, bye.