The tennis content I was making it never was really about the sport.
SPEAKER_00It was always more about the experience of a live sporting event. We don't have a problem with female fandom. We have a problem with how female fans experience sport.
SPEAKER_03God forbid I want to show up and like look cute. Like they're you can enjoy it any way you want.
SPEAKER_01Hello and welcome back to Fashion and Founders Podcast. My name is Victoria Smith, and this week I'm joined by Morgan Riddle and Cherry Beagles, the founders of 400 Club. You probably know Morgan from her impact on tennis. The New York Times called her the most famous woman in men's tennis. Now she has moved her influence from tennis to all of sports. Joining forces with Cherry in creating the 400 Club to focus on female fan culture through events, activations, and insider industry tips. If you're looking to go to one of their events, listen here for some details. I'm so excited to share more about what they're building. I think it is such an interesting time right now of this intersection of sports, fashion, pop culture, and I can't wait to see the impact that they have. So let's get into it. And if you're able to leave the podcast a rating or review and follow or subscribe to the show wherever you listen, it really helps the podcast grow and continue to get amazing guests like Morgan and Cherry. Thank you so much for listening. Hi Cherry and Morgan. I'm so happy to have you guys here. You've been busy, so thank you for coming. Happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00So happy to be here. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_01So I can't wait to talk about 400 Club. Cherry, you started this in London in 2024. What was the why now moment for you?
SPEAKER_00So I mean, it was a really long time before I had I had the idea for 400 ages ago because I grew up watching sports, never played. I'm like so uncoordinated, it's it's literally a joke, which I think actually gives us a great advantage within the sports industry. But I started watching loads of sports, literally with my dad, with my cousins who were male, and started looking around and realizing there was no female representation, not only from a fan standpoint, but from a commercial standpoint. All the brands in all the stadiums were all male-owned or conglomerates with male VPs and male C-suites, and that was really ingrained into my brain for good like 10 years before I actually started 400. And then one Tuesday, I was looking at the sporting calendar for the year and went to go get my phone out to invite my girlfriends, and I deleted the message. And I think that was the defining moment where I thought someone has to do something about this, and I'm gonna be naive enough to say it's me. What I know now about the sports industry and being an entrepreneur, like there's so much more that comes with that. But I think the original idea did just came out that frustration of not being able to call on my girlfriends and be like, this is something you should want to do, and speaks to you and speaks to who you are as a person. So yeah. I love that.
SPEAKER_01And Morgan, you two joined forces recently. Obviously, you were immersed in the tennis world the past couple years. When did you want to broaden your reach to all of sports and female fans?
SPEAKER_02I think I went to my first F1 race in 2023. And with like the tennis content I was making, it never was really about the sport. Like I never talked about like the players or the scores. Like, you know, a forehand, backhand, it was always more about the experience of a live sporting event. And so I went to my first F1 race and I was like, wow, this is an incredible live sporting event experience. And that's kind of where I was like, I think I should sort of expand out. And then I did Super Bowl and I started working with the NFL. And then Cherry and I had met like two years ago when she had first started 400 and we sort of stayed in contact. And then she reached out again at the end of last year, and it just was kind of like perfect timing with like everything that was going on in my life. And we had sort of this shared mission of like bringing, you know, her her mission of it, plus what I learned through tennis and female tennis fans and female F1 fans. And we were just kind of like, we can do this and cover a lot of ground and all the different sports.
SPEAKER_00I agree. And I also think something that was so important when I met Morgan is just our core like morals to do with 400 were so similar. Like, I understand there's so many gaps in the market now with sport and so many people entering the market, but I think ultimately we really just wanted to make more female fans. Like Morgan was seeing it through her own kind of life and going to different sporting events and also saw how many people she could touch with content and female audiences. And then I was seeing that on a more kind of micro level with my friends and things. So yeah, it was just like perfect synergies of what we wanted to achieve in the industry.
SPEAKER_01Can you tell us a little bit about the name 400 Club and the manifesto I saw you published?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I'll let Morgan cover the manifesto because that was Morg's idea. But the name the 400 Club, so everyone always asks me this is like a first question which I love, and it's kind of warranted because I wanted it to be ambiguous. But back in the Gilded Age, there was a bachelor's club called the 400 Club, and it was like the most eligible, successful, entrepreneurial men. And I wanted something that sounded sporty but still transcended other industries because I always knew, and I feel like from the first conversation with Morgan, I wanted to expand out into something more than just activations or more than just working with rights holders to build their female fan strategy. I wanted it to be, you know, multidisciplinary and a lifestyle brand at the end of the day. So the club sounded very swarty, and then I wanted to poke a bit of fun at the patriarchy because of how embedded that system is within sports. So I thought the name 400 Club was kind of a subtle way of doing that. If you knew the backstory, you know that we're replacing all of these amazing kind of women with those men that were once super successful and revered for their careers. And now we've got female founders, female proathletes, and female creatives that are kind of making up that group. So yeah, that's the next era. Exactly, a new era of the 400 club. But I'll let Morg's talk about the manifesto too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So we do a number of 400 manifestos for different sports as a whole and then different sporting events specifically. And we started doing those because when I was going to, you know, Wimbledon, for example, six months before Wimbledon even happened, I'd be getting DMs from girls of like, where should I stay in London for Wimbledon? Like, I'm, you know, me and my mom are taking a trip. I have no idea what to wear. I want to start planning my outfits. So I think there's so many questions about like attending these live sporting events. And with things like Wimbledon or an F1 race, there's a lot of little like, if you know, you know, or this is the best like merch shop to go to on site. This is the best place to get your seats at this F1 race. So we really wanted to create like a resource of guides of where girls can go to to sort of prep and plan for these events that they're going to. And then we started that with like the 400 club girl manifesto that was just kind of, I guess, stating our mission in a more long-form format.
SPEAKER_00It's like our mantras. I feel like I go back to the 400 pub manifesto, that first one that we did a lot because it speaks to our mission and what we really believe female fans and women within sport, both economically and culturally, represent for us and for hopefully the sports industry one day.
SPEAKER_01And through these conversations that you're now having with stakeholders, brands, other fans, are there certain themes you're seeing of why women were so left out of the conversation for a while? Like to me, I think to us, it's like it's 50% of the population. Why would you ignore them? What have you found?
SPEAKER_00I mean, when you say it like that, it's so obvious, isn't it? It's like that was a part of the reason as well that I started 400 and then why Morgan's seen so much success with our content is because these women were just like waiting for someone to listen to them and waiting for someone to kind of be a mouthpiece for them and what they wanted. But I genuinely just think it's systemic. It's the male leaders within organizations, within rights holders that don't understand because they couldn't possibly understand the female experience. They don't live it. And then when you look at that broader picture of how many male executives there are, it's no surprise that they're not focusing on the female fans. It's like why it's so easy for Morgan and I to know what female fans want is because we live that every single day. And I think that systemic kind of sexism within sport was so rife. And then I also just think there was a lot of gatekeeping within the sports industry. I I think the male fans, a lot of male identity is wrapped in sport. I think women have arguably more hobbies and maybe more outlets for their identity and their friendships and their communications. And I feel like sport was kind of gatekeeped for men as a way for them to express their identity. So there might have been some element of gatekeeping there where it was like, no, this is our place where we can show our emotions, be loud, be angry, be sad, like, and not get judged for it. So I don't know whether that on a some psychological level that came in. But I don't know what you think, Morgs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think another part of it is probably how the fandom was sort of measured. Cause in the last 10 years, especially, you know, this pop culture like moment with sports has really grown and evolved, and there's so much media about sports. And now we have heated rivalry and off campus and we had challengers. And I think prior to that, so much of interest in sport was measured through like knowledge of the players and statistics and very sort of like male-centric marketing. And now it's shifted into it's about the fashion, it's about the travel, it's about the lifestyle, it's about the personal lives of the players. And I think social media has also really, really contributed to that because before sport was, you know, like a viewing experience and now it's so participatory. And I think women are really the culture drivers in that because they're the ones who I would say are more interested in like, you know, the wags and the personal lives of the players and, you know, the fashion aspect of it. And they're the ones who are making the memes and making the heated rivalry edits and that sort of thing. So they really are the culture drivers. And I think now leagues and rights holders are paying attention to how much they really contribute to the sport.
SPEAKER_00That's so true. I think Morgan was saying earlier as well that sports is now competing as just a form of entertainment. And I think, as you say, the women within the industries, especially creators, creatives, and kind of that holistic experience of sport has been contributed to massively by women. It's just amazing to see. So yeah, super exciting.
SPEAKER_01Before getting into the obvious investment and growth opportunity it is for brands, male stakeholders who don't understand the female experience. I feel like it's important to touch on the fact that enabling female fans with community is actually helping their safety. And like you mentioned, men get drunk and emotional at sports games. Like, I'm gonna be avoiding MSG today because I don't want to be around craziness, although like want the Knicks to win. But how is this? And maybe have either of you had an experience in that way where, like, if I was surrounded by more women right now, I wouldn't have gotten catcalled. I wouldn't feel unsafe around rowdy, upset fans because their team just lost, you know? Yes, I can speak to this.
SPEAKER_02I had a, this actually was like went pretty viral in the press when it happened. But I was at the Super Bowl in Vegas a couple of years ago. And that was like the triple threat of Vegas, drunk dudes, and football. And I went to the actual game. I was sitting in the aisle with one of my girlfriends and ended up basically having like a panic attack during the third quarter and like sobbing in the bathroom because we were getting harassed so bad by drunk male fans because we were sitting right in the aisle. So every single drunk guy that was coming up would like look at me and my blonde friend. And we're we stuck out like a sore thumb, like in the section that we were sitting in. And yeah, it was a horrible experience. We ended up leaving early, and it was really unfortunate because we were so excited to be at the Super Bowl. And the rest of the weekend we dealt with the same sort of things, all the events that we were going to, like when we were walking around the casinos, it was just like constant like beratement and harassment from these guys. And then, you know, right now the next finals are going on. We were just walking around at MSG because we went to buy little uh boys' cruzies. Boys' duzies. But yeah, the atmosphere there, and you see the viral videos of the watch parties that are happening outside MSG, and the videos are hilarious, right? Like they're like, you know, guys screaming and they're crying and they're memes, and there's no women around because being a woman in this mosh pit would be like terrifying. And like I'm watching it and I'm like, that looks so fun, that looks so funny, but I know realistically I could never put myself there because it's just like a man, I don't know, dog pile basically in the street.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's so true. And I think so, we also a lot go out on our stories because we have such a niche demographic now of women across socials. It's like 98% women, 18 to 30 in major cities. And we've spoken to so many of them about their experience within sport and that same feeling of feeling unsafe. And it's just such a shame because sport is so fun. Like sport is one of, I would say one of the best pastimes that you can do as an individual with a group. There's like great food, great drinks, you're usually outside, the weather's nice, like, and you're actually watching people operate at their top 1% mentally and physically, and it's just like a great time. And so many other girls have messaged us and been like, I didn't go to this game, I didn't go to this watch party, I didn't go to this bar because I felt so nervous about being in those environments. And I think you can brush that off a lot of the time and say that people are over cautious or too anxious, but I actually just think that's the experience, like that's a true experience. All of us have felt it. And if every single one of my friends, Morgan, all of the women in my family and these amazing women with our within our community have felt it, it's not fake, it's real, and we need to make a huge change there because it's gonna be so much fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think like you said, watching people seed at the highest levels, it like makes me emotional. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like watching Olympics or a marathon. I'm like crying, and I'm like, I cry like every national anthem now. My boyfriend crystal, every national anthem, and now I'm like, oh god, I've inherited that. Because you're just seeing people like represent their country, and it's great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So combining that the positive energy, I'm so glad you guys are creating a space for women to enjoy that and feel safe. You recently held an event for F1 in London. Yes. How was that?
SPEAKER_02So fun.
SPEAKER_00It was so fun. Like, I think even, I mean, F1 were amazing, and we had an all-female team at F1 that were contributing and collaborating with the event. But I think the number one thing that we saw was women come alone and leave with like great friends. We had so many people message us after, come up to us during the event, being like, I've now found a friend to watch all my F1 races with on Sundays, to go to GPs, if I'm lucky to go, like, and it was just amazing to see that immediate fusing of women because it's like a common denominator. All of them were in that room because they love F1 or they're curious about F1. And I think when you put amazing women, kind women, women that are respecting of that environment as well, you just create like great friendships. It was amazing.
SPEAKER_02It was such a good atmosphere too. Cause all all the girls that signed up for that event are like coming because they really want to watch the race and they come for their favorite players. And we didn't, we didn't put like, you know, uh dress for the occasion or like dress for your favorite player, and every single girl showed up in F1 gear Ferrari jackets, which was really fun. But I mean, by the end of it, girls were like ripping shots and like yelling at the TV, and it's like if you had a major part to do with that.
SPEAKER_00So Morgan is like, I would like to say I'm more straight and narrow. Like, I don't Morgan's like the party. We balance each other out because Morgan at the end was like, who wants shots? Like round the girls. But that's how close we want our events to be as well. Like, we fully want to be in that moment with the female fans and like enjoy ourselves. We're not there to truly honestly, we're not there to like appease a rights holder or to appease a brand. Like, we're there for the female fans. So there were multiple occasions in other activations where we've had to push back on rights holders and be like, the girls wouldn't like this, so we're not gonna do it. Like, I know you guys are the rights holder and you have you have leverage, but we don't think the female fans will like this, or they'll definitely need X. And we make sure that that happens because it's for them, it's not for the rights holder.
SPEAKER_01As you're working with brands, rights holders, just all these different parties involved. What are you learning that is maybe like a stereotype that they have in mind? We're like, why do you keep doing this? Like, we don't want this, or like are brands getting stuff right? Like, what are you finding in these conversations?
SPEAKER_02I mean, like the pink washing of it all with having women's night where everything is just pink, or the fact that there's even women's night in general in sports where most American sports at this point do have almost a 50-50 gender split. So I'm like, why are we having one? Like the baseball season has 150 games and there's one night that's like dedicated for the female fans' bizarre. And what are some other big ones?
SPEAKER_00I mean, honestly, so many. We see it daily. I think when we did our teaser video for 400, it's on our Instagram. That is literally based off a real conversation that we've had with rights holders where they just think pink it and trinket, and like that's the way to do things. I think three major areas merchandise. There's so many amazing female-owned independent brands coming out that are doing it right, but rights holders do not know how to do female merchandise right. And I'm so gobsmacked at some of the conversations we're having, which props to them for moving it forward and actually wanting to collaborate with us to understand what female fans want. But God, it's taken a long time. Like we're in 2026. You shouldn't great, because we have our whole business space around it, but it shouldn't have taken this long for you to figure out what kind of cut, what kind of colour, what kind of logo placement, what kind of fabric, what sizing to accommodate for all women you should be doing. It's just crazy. Merchandise is number one thing, I think, that rights holders just don't understand. I'd also say a lot of brands really don't understand how to integrate sports into their marketing strategy in a way that feels really authentic to them. So you see a lot of brands just pop up around the key moments. You know, they'll do a British GP, they'll do a Vegas GP, they'll do a Wimbledon, they'll do the World Cup. But actually, if you think about it, they're the times where there's the absolute most attention and noise around sports. If you really don't want to get like lost in the movement, you should be using that white space in between. Like, what athletes can you partner with? What not even athletes, I think athletes should be top of mind, but cultural movers within the sports peripherals, like journalists, stylists, even like creative directors for athletes. You could be collaborating with all of them throughout the whole year and have such amazing moments and such amazing content and such amazing collaborations. I think that's another thing. Brands just kind of do the tick box exercise of like where are the main events throughout the year, and let's just do something there and not actually embed it into their broader strategy.
SPEAKER_02Well, I also do want to say that I think there are leagues and teams and social teams now that are very female heavy. Like we got many, we got in a call with a big rights holder a couple of weeks ago, and it was me chering for other women. And as soon as the Zoom call started and we saw there was all women, we were like, yeah, let's go. So that is super exciting in leagues like the PWHL. Like they know what they're doing, they know who their audience is, and they're doing such a good job with it. It's either like one really far, like they're super off the mark, and then there are some that are like really on the mark and that is also great to work with and like collaborate with too, because they just get it. For sure. Which is really helpful for us as well.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, there's so many rights holders that are amazing as well. Not all rights holders need our help. Some rights holders, I feel like we're either collaborating to help or we're collaborating to just share the space because they know what they want and they know how to reach female fans.
SPEAKER_01I like what you said about Pink It and Trinket because I think I heard this on your video series. I don't know if it's a podcast, but off court on culture about the tight for some reason, like V neck V T that they always sell to women. The lovely VNC. I remember having to own one. So I was like, I want to rep my like baseball team at home. Yeah. But what the hell am I wearing right now? Yeah. But I looked it up in the global license. So, like a jersey, a team name, merchandise industry is worth about 40 billion dollars. Yes, crazy. Women love fashion. Like, we love, we we want to look good. Yeah. What are you finding in maybe specifically the merch industry and where fashion and sports are increasingly merging? That is such an untapped category.
SPEAKER_02Pinterest just released their trend report for summer 2026, and across the board, everything upcycled jerseys. I also think with like the zeitgeist of what's going on in American sporting culture right now between the World Cup and between the Knicks being in the finals too, but like upcycled jerseys, like retroactive where like it's just having such an up and up right now, and girls are kind of leaning towards that sort of sporty chic. And then along with that, these brands are getting the IP for different teams or partnering with like MLB, MBA, and creating merch that girls actually want to wear and purchase. We just went to the MSG next door and popped around a little bit. But again, like we bought little boys jerseys because that's the only thing that's gonna like. We're like, oh yeah, that'll be cute. That's little crop top. But they they're not selling that sort of thing that 20-something year old girls want to wear to go to the bar to like be cute. You know what I mean? And they'd be making so much money if they did. Oh, they so much. So much. But that's why I mean, if you go on uh Danny Joe Pro, Tere, off season Therese. Why do I say it? Like it's French, it's not French. Therese. I know I just got in the habit of it. Off season, any of those right now. Yeah, you cannot buy a single next thing. Everything's everything is sold out.
SPEAKER_00There's Player Society, as well. I want to give a few shouts. Player Society, Wild Collective. There's also there's just so many independent brands with women being like, I'm sick and tired of wearing the V-neck long tight t-shirts. Like, I just need to create this for myself and for my girlfriends. But I mean, the merchandise industry is so interesting. I think we've been diving deeper into that because we're really interested in eventually creating something of our own around that. But you know, like, for example, sports licensing and and rights holder licensing pretty much is owned by fanatics, like across the board, which Michael Rubin, great businessman, like amazing. And then off-season is actually owned by fanatics. So off-season is made by Kristen, Uzchek, and Emma Greed, but it's owned by fanatics. And that was like their very first venture into the female kind of fan world. But all of the other female-owned or female positioning merchandise companies are all independently owned. Like there's no big conglomerate that's really pushing that out. It's we've always said, and I think something I've really noticed trend-wise across the industry, is if it's for females, it's been built from the ground up. Like it's been built by the communities, by the women, with the knowledge of what they want. And I think that's so empowering, but also it shouldn't be necessary. Like, you know, we should be listened to. But I think it's an amazing opportunity for any women that want to enter sport, like, do it now and to the sports industry right now.
SPEAKER_02And for how big that that industry is, only 10% of merch is made for women.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02Which is interesting when you look at like the purchasing power in a household is like 83% the woman in the household. But then this huge industry is 90% catering to men who maybe are, maybe aren't, maybe their wives are buying them jerseys as a gift sort of thing. So that was an interesting statistic for me to learn when I was kind of diving into like the V-neck, Thai V-neck of it all.
SPEAKER_00And even on that, like not even just the purchasing power, the repeat customer, like the trend of women rebuying and buying more merchandise. I think they're like eight times, they buy up to eight times more than men as well, and not just this fans.
SPEAKER_02Well, because okay, so like a typical male Knicks fan in the city is probably gonna have like one or two jerseys, right? I have nine Knicks pieces now because I want to mix up the outfits and I just bought more.
SPEAKER_00It depends on the occasion. I'm just a girl. That's so right. But men do literally find that one jersey and they hold on to it for like 50 years. No, literally. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01They don't want yeah, their lucky jersey. Well, thank you for shouting out some of those other brands too. So I was gonna ask for your recommendations on that similar note, because obviously merchandise is part of the fashion industry, but more like high fashion brands are getting more involved in investing in athletes as ambassadors. Where are you seeing that play in the most to different sports? I know tennis introduced like walk-ons, the NFL, NBA really has that involved. Yeah. What are you guys excited about?
SPEAKER_02I think the, yeah, I think the tunnel fits are probably my favorite aspect of that. And we did some research into sort of how that started, which was super interesting. It started in the 90s with the NBA, and it was actually sort of a corporate rule that the head of the NBA had put in at the time because of this incident called Malice at the Palace, where there was a huge brawl that happened, and then there was kind of this like overhaul that happened corporate-wise, where the basketball players had to show up dressed in like business casual attire. And then that sort of over the years transitioned into what is now the tunnel fits. But I think that, like, and uh WNBA, her tunnel on Instagram, like really love seeing that sort of thing. And then they're getting stylists involved. So now you have like these women who are like building brands on Instagram for styling NBA players, which is really cool. And it varies so much per sport because then with tennis, they're doing all of these sort of like off-court campaigns and they're walking in the fashion shows, and Gucci has the partnership with Yannick Center, and now they're doing F1. So I think they're all sort of trying to figure out how to worm their way in in one way or another.
SPEAKER_00So it's yeah, it's been interesting. No, I love that. I also love within fashion, like more broadly, I guess I'll go like macro and micro. More broadly, we're just seeing rights holders come on board as sponsors and partners of major leagues. So we obviously just saw the Gucci collaboration with Alpine. We've got LVMH at the helm for F1. And then I think you're just seeing, I think what we're seeing is a lot of institutional, like archaic ways of partnering being broken down due to the media and social media industry. We've seen a lot of just like IP placements now turn into these like cultural phenomena where we're actually getting Yannick to enter the court with a Gucci bag, which he never would have done before, you know, and it's like a moment in culture. And we're seeing athletes have creative directors now and stylists that are extremely famous for being female athlete or male athlete stylists, and that's their niche. Like I think we're just seeing a much more detailed entry into sports as opposed to just an IP slapped on the kind of, you know, uh stadiums. But I think F1 is really interesting because I think it's the easiest entryway, and not in terms of brands, uh it's a cop-out for brands, but I think it's really easy for these luxury brands to identify with F1 because it's got such a solid basis of being upper class, elegant, luxurious, like the brand morals and the brand positioning matches these high-end fashion houses so well. So it's such an easy transition. What I'm really interested to see is the maybe the sports that have slightly more messy, slightly more cult identities find the right brands for them. Like we see a lot within the WMBA. I think we'll see a lot more teams find their exact match based on their morals, based on their players, based on their kind of beliefs and like brand identity. But another brand that's doing really great stuff is Topicals. They've done so much within sport. It's like a female-owned skincare brand. And they did a lot with the W, but through the players, and just had the players like creatively within their campaigns. I'm tired of seeing brands just use an athlete and have them like holding their prop, like a basketball or a football, or like let's get her to just hit a tennis ball. It's like, no, I think we're unique to go deeper than that. Like figure out what the personality of the athlete is and intertwine it with your whole brand vision, not just your sports strategy.
SPEAKER_01Can you quickly give an example about rights holders in case someone doesn't totally understand what that means?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, good idea. That's such a great question. So rights holders are essentially the leagues, governing bodies and institutions that own the IP rights to sports. So we're talking about the MBAs, the NFLs, WMBAs, WTAs, ATPs, the kind of whenever you think of what that company is at the very top of a sport, that's usually dealing with a lot more of the procedural things within the sport. That's a rights holder. So like any soccer club or any NWSL club, you know, Gotham, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, they're all rights holders.
SPEAKER_01I think it's good to understand like the governing body of it all. Like I'm sure it's hard to get things approved and moved along. So yeah, it's crazy. There's a lot of hierarchy. And I'm curious, we're in New York, the US opens in a couple months. So I'm a longtime tennis fan as well, and I've seen the true impact, I think, can be really attributed to you of bringing younger female fans, just like, what is this? Get involved, get excited about what's happening. The US is obviously the most commercial of the four Grand Slams. Players are at pop-ups, they're doing brand partnerships. I'm sure you got approach for partnerships. If a brand is listening and they're like, I want to be at the US Open, but I want to do it right. I don't want to be a slight little moment. Obviously, one, they should work with you guys. But two, do you have any tips that you would say of, I've been in this industry, I've been involved, I've been pitched, I know what's good and I know what's not gonna work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, there's there's levels to it. I think, firstly, every US Open, like three weeks before the tournament starts, brands will come out the woodworks and be like, we want to do something for US Open. And I'm like, you should have thought about that in January because because it's so popular now, like every brand wants to get a suite, every brand wants to do an activation. I think the big issue with US Open and brands right now is the IP aspect of it all. So a lot of like beauty brands and fashion brands will send creators to the US Open and have them, you know, post their dress and like tag them and like it's it's a paid ad, right? But if you are taking that outfit photo and the US Open logo is in the background, that's not allowed. So you'll get a cease and desist. Like creators were getting a lot of cease and desist last year. Brands were getting cease and desists. Like you, unless you are an official partner of US Open, like LaRoche Posey, I think is their official sunscreen partner. Ralph Lauren is their like outfitting partner, unless you're one of those sponsors who is paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for that sponsorship, you cannot use any on the grounds photos or anything with US Open. So that's one issue that I think is like a huge issue in the creator economy and like partnering with sport right now is these like influencer marketing managers don't clock that. And I don't think there's really like a team within the governing body who is big enough or sharing enough or like in contact with these smaller brands to let them know that. So that's one thing is a lot of brands and a lot of creators are running into big trouble with the IP, which is something that we would love to help them figure out how to do because I've had a lot of experience with it.
SPEAKER_00Not loopholes, but there's ways around it where you can still legally do stuff on the US side and do it with impact.
SPEAKER_02And then I think the other thing is a lot of brands will again, like as you were saying before, they just want to show up and like have their logo involved somehow instead of actually contributing to the sport or to the athletes. And an example that I can think of where a brand I think really came into tennis and did it right is Mecca, the it's basically like the Sephora of the UK and Australia. They have been a sponsor at Australian Open, I think for the last two or three years. But this past year, they did a Mecca pop-up for the female athletes. So between the end of their match and when they would go on camera on press, they could pop into the little Mecca suite and they had makeup artists that would like touch the girls up because you know, you're still a girl, like you want to look look cute for your press and all the photos and stuff afterwards, which nothing like that had ever been offered to the athletes. And I think that was an example of a brand coming in and like being like, okay, like what do these athletes need? Like, how can we like genuinely show up and contribute, you know, what we have, which is beauty and makeup and hair, and actually make a difference where like if they weren't there, if they're not there next year, the those female athletes are gonna be like, wait, but where's the touch-up station now? You know, like yeah, it's it makes a difference when people notice when you're not there anymore.
SPEAKER_00So true. That's such a good point. I think you summarized that so well of like find what the athletes or the fans need, not what you want from a PR perspective. Because another brand that I mean, really not the same territory as Beauty and Fashion, which I think there's so much more room for, but Airbnb just partnered with the WSL, which is like the Women's Soccer League in the UK. And I have to applaud them because why they partnered and how they partnered is during the transfer window, they're offering players places to stay. Because during the transfer window, when you're kind of moving from one team to another, usually your living situation is quite up in the air because you know, you're no longer being paid to work in one area, well, like train in one area, and you're probably gonna have to move house. And there's this middle section where you know, it's like, okay, well, do I just get a hotel? Like, where do I stay? And Airbnb are now funding for all of the WSL players for them to stay in specific specific Airbnbs during that transfer window. And I'm like, that's something the players actually need, and it proves that they've gone as deep as to think what is necessary here and how can we actually make a difference, as opposed to just like let's just slap our logo on here. Which I think there's so many opportunities like that, and I think that comes from learning the game and learning the sport and learning the athletes deeper, and I think that's like the first step to any great collaboration is really taking the time to understand the moving parts and what's actually needed.
SPEAKER_01It is funny to see, like, here it's like US Open. Yeah. I don't know if you are partnering with them this time. But everyone wants to get involved. This summer, there's and like kind of today, this week, right now, there's a lot happening. Obviously, you've talked about the Knicks, FIFA is about to start, then it's Wimbledon, the US Open, you've mentioned San Diego, all these other places. Is there something that either one you're excited about that you're about to see, or you're like, I really hope I see this?
SPEAKER_02I'm going to a World Cup game on Saturday. I'm going to Brazil versus Morocco. I've never been to a soccer football game. Men would kill for those tickets, by the way. Yeah. I have really good tickets too. Um but yeah, I'm super excited to go to that. I think it'll be, I mean, I I've never been to a sporting event like that ever. Huge. I feel like I'm like preparing for war because it's it's such a big deal. But I'm getting like a custom soccer, like Brazil soccer jersey made. I guess that'll be interesting. And I think I think seeing the city during World Cup, like just following, or I guess almost overlapping with the next finals here, depending how many games we go, will be insane next and four, hopefully.
SPEAKER_00And we're actually something that Morgan and I are doing together that we're really excited about is we're going to the NASCAR San Diego weekend. And we have never watched NASCAR. Like, we're gonna put our hands up and say that because what we want this to be, we're doing a content series with them, and it's like as much us learning as our female followers and like community. Yeah. And I'm so excited. I love motorsport. Like I grew up, I think my first ever job was working at the Silverstone track in summers when I was doing like I was like at the information booth. I wasn't doing anything sexy, but I'm so excited to see what NASCAR is like and see the fans and actually see how many female fans are there and see how much work we need to do, basically. But yeah, really excited for that. There's so much we've got coming up. The sporting calendar is relentless, it's actually relentless. Number one thing we always say as well, and like all the rights holders, the rights holders don't talk to each other because they schedule everything on the same weekend. Yeah, I know. And it's like you're not helping each other. We want maximum viewership. Like, let's just space it out. Like holiday weekends too.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. How do you think social media has changed the way people participate in sports culture where you don't have to be there to watch it or feel like you were a part of it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's so good. I think it's changed everything. Like I said, it's gone from being like a viewing experience to like participatory, and I think that I think that girls are driving that. Girls and women are driving that so much. I mean, of course, you have like the highlights pages and like the bleacher reports and the stats sort of thing, but there's a whole side to social media that really is so like female-centric. Like we are hoping to start working with uh microcreators who do sports content because there are like thousands and thousands of like teenage girls who are making incredible F1 content. And we see them all the time. Like they're in our community, they're followers, and they're just making like such interesting content and they're so knowledgeable about it. And I just don't feel like they're getting like quite the like recognition yet. And like sometimes I'll find that these girls' accounts who have like 2,000 followers and they're doing the most like well-produced, well-informed top tier content, and you're like, yeah, and that they're like 17 years old, and you're like, holy crap, like this is that.
SPEAKER_00It also shows how deep their fandom is. You know, you're like, oh, you're just like off the dome telling me what happened in 1978, or like it's crazy, it's honestly wild. But yeah, that's such a good point. I think it has changed everything, and it's like bottom line, change visibility for sport. People that never thought they were sports fan fans or never thought they could become a sports fan now have an entryway that's like the olive branch into fandom, and I think that's amazing. That's so great. Do you have any upcoming events you can talk about? We have a lot of upcoming events. So, I mean, we should probably talk about the huddles. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we are kind of straddling two types of event with the 400 club at the moment. We're doing kind of activations, watch parties, brand collaborations on one side, and then we're doing what we're calling huddles, trademarked by Flo, who's our culture and community leader, 400. And huddles are specifically essentially the all access paths behind the scenes into the sports industry to try and help more women get into the sports industry, whether that's through a corporate job, creative job, commercial job, whether they just want to learn more about how that whole world operates. We're doing these huddles where we essentially take the biggest female leaders, icons, culture drivers from within sports and different areas of sports and have really close-knit, very open discussions about how to enter that industry or what they've learned within the industry. So we're doing those across New York and London with Soho Works. We did our first one in London about creativity within sports. So we had an amazing creative director who shot Serena Williams, Nadal, you know, she's she's shot the most amazing athletes in the world. And she spoke to everyone about how she got into the industry, how she shows her creativity through athletes. Then we had a multi-team owner, Victor Congenoval, who actually bought, I think it was three in the end, women's sports teams, and how she did that. And then myself, I was on the panel to talk more about community. So we're just going to be doing so much more of those, drawing back the curtain, no bullshit. Like, let's actually tell the girls how to get into the industry and give them knowledge that they can use. So that's the huddle side. And then the commercial side are the cute watch parties, getting more girls to actually attend and have a safe space for women to watch sports and just have fun and have like brands collaborate and make it suitable for the brand. I think there's not enough opportunities for brands to actually show up in a way that feels right for them and authentic for them.
SPEAKER_02And I think those watch parties are important. Like tonight's a really good example. You think about going into any like popular sports bar in New York tonight, like Rocco's Do West, like I'm like, well, I I can't wear these white jeans because I'm definitely gonna get beard filled on them, and like some guy's gonna piss me off, and someone's gonna get my face, and my feet are gonna get stepped on, so I can't wear my manolos out. Like, you know, and so we're trying to curate a space where girls can go and like comfortably watch a game because it just doesn't exist right now.
SPEAKER_00And elevate that experience, like have nice cocktails and have like an ambiance in there that's nice and just like that feels like home.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and luckily there are really great amazing high-level sports bars here where you can host those sort of events. Yeah. That's like really interesting with. So we're super excited to do some in this summer. I know.
SPEAKER_01Where are you guys watching the game later?
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, we're still trying to figure that out. We left it way too late. We've been too busy.
SPEAKER_02TBD. Yeah, maybe um there's like a theater room at Fouquet's that we might go to. Oh yeah. Beautiful. We did Rocco's last week and got a table there, but tables at like the worst sports bar you know are like 10K tonight. Yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_00So crazy. It's actually crazy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Fouquets, the maybe from my couch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I was gonna say, maybe just from the couch. With like a martini or something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, you can't go wrong watching it at home on night. Where are you watching it? I think I'm gonna meet my friends in like the East Village. Yeah. But it is like a community thing of like, where are you watching? Where are you going? Like, it's a good event. Even on a Monday night, I'm like, obviously, that's what I'm doing. Yeah, maybe we'll bring it.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna go, I wanna go walk around later and get videos of girls' outfits. What they're wearing next wise because when I was out last week, I was like, Oh my god, this is so I'm like, Where did you get these jerseys? Like, do you make that yourself? So we're gonna go out and then we'll kind of suss the vibes there.
SPEAKER_01I found some good like vintage sports gear on like Etsy or EV, and it's usually like an XXL. Yeah. And I'm like counting in it, but make it look. It's cute. You probably look great in it, don't worry. I don't have anything for next, but for other teams, I do. I am curious because I think we all see the the potential and the investment that should be made in female fans. What do you think and would say to people who are like, this is kind of the passing moment? Like, I don't know if this is gonna be around, like the girls are gonna wear the hat. And I don't know, you hear rude jokes that you can kind of laugh off, but is obviously so inherently misogynistic of like, oh, you just want to look cute and you don't care about the game. And it's like, well, one, so what? And two, like, exactly, I'm I'm here and I'm really not going anywhere. Like people who think it's a passing moment when it's I think we know it's not, but I think we have to kind of address it so they they know.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I mean, I think I'd say number one, are women a passing moment? Like, are women just living a passing moment? Because that's basically what it's saying. It's like segregating a whole industry based on agenda, which is crazy. And as you say, who cares if you're there there just to be in a cute outfit or be there with their friends? Like, it doesn't matter. The this it's an experience. Like, are we gatekeeping fun experiences now for certain people? There are men there because they bet their month's salary on the game.
SPEAKER_03Like, God forbid, I want to show up and like look cute. Like, they're you can enjoy it any way you want.
SPEAKER_00It's so true. So, yeah, I mean, Morgus, what would you say to people that say it's a passing moment?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, that that is sort of my issue when people are like, we're really having like a moment in like women's sports right now. And I'm like, that alludes to the fact that it is passing and it's not here to stay, which I don't think is quite true. I think that enough brands and rights holders and teams are investing in it that there's no way that it does it goes back to like where it was before. No, no way.
SPEAKER_00I think the fans wouldn't allow it. The female fans would not allow that. Like, also, we haven't had an issue with female fandom in terms of numbers. We've had an issue with visibility. There's always been female fans. Always. They've always been there. And they're the women that are like fighting to get in certain rooms and have done for decades and have made it to the top where they now can influence how females are represented within the sport. And they're, you know, fans that have been going to games even though they're not welcome there and buying the merch and showing up anyway. Like, we don't have a problem with female fandom. We have a problem with how female fans experience sport. It's not whether they're there or not, it's whether we allow them to be there and how welcoming we are of that.
SPEAKER_01And I think obviously it can sound so commercial and like American to be like brands and they need to be involved, but I think it's the visibility. Like, I think if you see that someone's selling to you, it's like there's a power to that. So important. Of like my money is here. Like, I don't know, just I think the US and the patriarchy like just value the monetary side of things so much that I've kind of trained my brain to always see that. And it's kind of why I wanted to bring up the safety component early on. So I'm like, there's an increase by 10% of domestic violence when like the NFL team, the home team loses.
SPEAKER_00Oh, in the world, like there's in the UK, it's crazy. Yeah, I think the UK is the stuff is like I think it's rises by 30%. Oh god. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_01But it's like I would imagine that could go down if like female fans were fans, I said that weird, were there more and like there was a bigger community and they felt like they could actually own the room and like take up space at events like this.
SPEAKER_00So yeah. I mean, I think your point on brands, obviously, a lot of it's commercial. A lot of it's like top line, but I think that's so okay. Like, as you say, if you see your favorite brand partnering with a sports or rights holder or an athlete, you're gonna naturally feel more affiliated to what they're promoting. It's just like natural to be like, oh, a brand I like is doing something in this, I'll look further into it. And I think if that's the way that some female fans find their fandom amazing, like that's great. I just don't think we should be judging the commercial side of sport. Also, the commercial side of sport is necessary for the growth of sport. I think that's something that actually is a misconception or maybe an opinion that's held within the industry is that OG fans don't really like new fans and the OG establishments don't like all of these new sexy cool brands coming in. For me, and this is a personal opinion, it's only going to benefit them more. Like the more money that goes towards athletes, the more money that goes towards the institutions and the setups of these sports, the better experience there will be for fans, for the athletes, better remuneration for athletes. Like the ultimate outcome is still positive for like everything that either these OG fans or or OG kind of institutions are trying to protect. It only benefits that end consumer and like that end person. So I think that's something that's really interesting in the sports industry too.
SPEAKER_01There is a weirdness around like you're a new fan, like you shouldn't be here. It's like, were you born with all this knowledge? Exactly. Everyone's a new fan. It was everyone's first game at some point. Yeah, it's crazy. You guys just recently joined forces for 400 called this new era of it. What is your goal for like five, 10 years from now, your vision for this future of female fandom?
SPEAKER_02I was thinking about this when you were talking a couple of minutes ago. What about the aspect of like feeling safe at sporting events? We have a vision of having like a 400 section where it's like a women-only section at like a football game. So it's like we actually don't even have to deal with like the men who are like screaming and throwing beer everywhere. That's like our end goal.
SPEAKER_00I think we are she did a strategy a few weeks ago where we put all of our North Stars and we were like, that is a North Star to have a section at every single major stadium where it's like for the 400 club girls, and you don't have to be a part of the club, like just for women that want to feel like this is an area that was made for them. I think another one is just to be honest, like building one of the biggest community-based brands within sports for women. Like, we want to create the home of like female fandom, however, that comes. There's no barrier to entry, there's no requirements of what you need to understand or know or commit in terms of sports for the 400 club. It's purely just for like the joy and the understanding of knowing that we have a place within the industry. And I think ultimately I really want to shift the commercial model. And Morgan and I have spoken about this so much. A huge part of the 400 Club and why we have our member base as well, which are the female founders, female athletes, and female creators, is because we truly think these women can shift an entire industry and shift the commercial model of sport. Like I see in 10 years for all of the major brands that are endorsing, partnering, collaborating with sport to be female-owned and female-centric. That's like the end goal. And that doesn't come directly from us, but I want it to come through us, you know? I want to be that place where we can just serve that female fan, that female brand.
SPEAKER_01How can someone get involved or go to an event?
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, I mean, follow our socials. Yeah, follow our socials and then our link in bio on Instagram. You can go and put in your information, and then the girls who are like part of the 400 club will get an email blast early, early the day before we put the link up, which I would highly recommend doing because they book out like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's actually wild. I think we sought out our F1 event and we were oversubscribed by about 300 people within 30 minutes. Oh wow. It was crazy, which is amazing. But it's like we have diehard community female fans, which are amazing. So yeah, follow the 400 club on socials and then join the mailing list, basically. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I have a few speed round questions for you guys. Do you have a fashion hot take? Maybe sports specific. Fashion hot take.
SPEAKER_02Capris are in. Yeah, capris are in. Capris are in. I keep seeing like people are still going back and forth on it. I'm like, they're in people and cute. Why are we still talking about this? They've been in. So NFL players wear capris.
SPEAKER_00They do. They do. They really do. They started the trend. They started the trend. My fashion hot take in sport. Oh, we don't need any more jerseys coming out. Sport, uh football specifically. Football specifically. They're like, what was that stat that you found out about the amount of waste there is? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02It was so bad. Because as soon as a a player is not on the team, all these jerseys that are in production are just they're useless. Who's buying a new jersey of a player that's not even on the team anymore? So the amount of waste that goes because of that. It was in the billions. It was in billions. Yeah. Tons.
SPEAKER_00Wow. It's like the sustainability factor, but it's really bad. So yeah, it's crazy. And I think now a lot of rights holders are seeing jerseys and I guess like collaborative jerseys as like the way into culture. Yeah. And it's just so oversaturating.
SPEAKER_02I think that's what's so smart about the women who are doing the branded like because they don't put the names on the back because we don't care about no one whose name is on the back of it. And then the longevity of those pieces is so much longer because like there's no player attached to it. Yeah. So maybe stop making jerseys as much. Like as much.
SPEAKER_01It's more about the team than it is like the person.
SPEAKER_02If the guys care enough, they can just like take a sharpie to the back of it. Just customize. Learn how to use mind. We'll show you how to bedazzle it. Yeah. Their name and little sparkles.
SPEAKER_01Okay. There's probably a ton for this, but what is one of the biggest misconceptions brands still have about female sports fans?
SPEAKER_00I always say this one, but that they're monolithic. That it's like one big group of women with no like subcultures within that. And I think it it's naturally due to the fact that female fans have only come into the limelight more recently. So it's so much easier to group them. It's just like one big female fan, and there's so many subcultures within female sports fans.
SPEAKER_01It might be hard given the Knicks are playing tonight. Kiss Mary Kill, F1, tennis, or MBA.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you go first, Mary.
unknownKiss Mary Kill.
SPEAKER_00Um can you say the options again, please? NBA, tennis, F1. Marry F1.
SPEAKER_02I'll kiss F1.
SPEAKER_00The lifestyle.
SPEAKER_02Wait, actually, I'm gonna kill F1. I'm gonna kill F1. I'm gonna kiss NBA. I'm gonna marry tennis.
SPEAKER_00Oh, love. Love that. Okay, we're so mine's opposite. Mine's opposite. I think I would marry F1 because the travel would be amazing. Yeah. Europe for Oh, you're thinking about it in that sense? I'm thinking about it as if like F1 was a human being. Oh wait, what are you thinking about it?
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. Like based on like vibes. Oh, based on vibes, I'd say I'd say marry marry tennis on vibes, kiss MBA and then kill F1. Yeah. But if I was going off of persona, marry F1, kiss the MBA, and probably kill tennis. Mm-hmm. Sorry about that.
SPEAKER_01I love how vibes and persona were so different. So different. Do you have any resource recommendations? Doesn't it have to be like sports specific, but maybe like a book, a podcast you've been loving? So many podcasts, the gist.
SPEAKER_02I feel like I get most of my news via these like smaller content creators that I follow. Do you know like hoops for hotties? Yes, I love hoops for hotties.
SPEAKER_00She just did the NBA, she did the NYX like Roundup today on why it's so important.
SPEAKER_02I was like, oh my god, her content's so good. I love it so it's it's mostly from like other like female digital content creators because they're speaking my language. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And Coach Jackie, is that her name? Coach Jackie. I don't know her. She's a TikTok creator as well, and she does like kind of funny sports takes, but she still teaches you about sport. I'd say also the major kind of the gist, female owned, JC, love JC. There's a gallery together, female owned. Do you know what? It's really this is we work in the sports industry and we literally know like every corner of it, and it's still difficult. Sports gossip, sports gossip is so good. Oh yeah, sports gossip is so good. It's like a handful of people that I would say. And books-wise, again, I don't think I've ever read a book on female fandom or like on no the F1 magazine Essex. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Essence.
unknownOh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02Tony's Essence? I think it's the F1 magazine. I don't. No, I was in it a couple I can't. Oh Morgan, you should know. I know. But uh Tony, who's another F1. Tony Browning. Yeah, she writes about female fandom for that magazine, which is the first one.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Tony Cohen Brown. So good. Follow Tony Cohen Brown. Yeah. She's content creator around F1. F1. There's a lot of F1 content creators. Who else? Who else? I think that's like there must be so many more, but we've gone blank. I know. Who's the teeth for basketball? Tony Cohen Brown for F1. Her tunnel for basketball. Her tunnel for basketball. WNBA. She's in the stands. She's helping us write a manifesto for Miami GP, which was so good. Sip Milkshake, really great for F1 content. And also she just girls just won a F1. Yep. Lizzie. Lizzie Macintosh. Tony Bredinger for anything NASCAR. Yep. Oh no, wait, she's she has NASCAR. Yeah. She drives for them, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Those are great. Okay, good. That was a lot. Yeah, people are reading this now.
SPEAKER_02And where can everyone find you guys? Oh. The 400 club? Yeah, the 400 club. And then I'm Morg's on it's how many O's and how many R's and how many G's? Two O's, two Rs. M-O-O-R-R-G-S. It's I chose it when I was 14. And then once you get verified.
SPEAKER_00Do you know how annoying it is to have to like when I'm trying to put it into an email body where I'm like, and this is Morgue's tag. I have to go back to your profile. Yep, me as well. Yeah. And then I'm cherry.beagles. Cherry like the fruit. Beagles like the dog. But the 400 club is just the and then the number 400 and then club.
SPEAKER_01Amazing. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on. I think it's such an interesting intersection that you are helping build and the female fans, the fashion, the culture, the sports, obviously. So thank you for doing this and bringing light to it.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having us. It's been so much fun. Thank you guys. Thank you.