Mother!

And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:28

And the people did just that. They stripped the sea of her bounty as every bird fell from the sky. Yes, those who took and took until there was no more left to take. Until the land, the earth, was left with no other option than to remove the infestation from her existence, in tern, destroying herself. When there’s no other option because she feels so powerless in a situation she thought was going to be her peace and future.. How far must she go to secure her space, her home, her safety?

If you have any questions or need more information on this episode, all resources can be found at https://www.spotlightstudiospodcast.com/mother

Transcript

Mother!

Gabby Browne: [00:00:00] This podcast is an association with Spotlight Studios, a family of podcasts driven to create unique, one of a kind content. If you have any interest in learning more, please visit Spotlight studios podcast.com. 

And God said to them, be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it. And have dominion over the fish. Of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth. Genesis 1 28, and the people did just that. They stripped the sea of her bounty as every bird fell from the sky.

Yes. Those who took and took until there was nothing more left to take until the land, the earth was left with no other option than to remove the infe. Station from her existence in turn destroying herself when there's no other option because she feels so powerless in a situation she thought was going to be her peace and future.

How far must she go to secure her space, her home, her safety? [00:01:00] I'm Gabby Brown here with Erin Cower. Hello. Hello. And Jonathan Van Sickle. Hey Gabby, and this is The Limelight by Spotlight Studios.

Okey doke. Well, uh, first of all, I chose Mother by Darren Aronofsky for many reasons, but I think the most prominent is the insanity. What the hell is going on? Factor? It's overwhelming in every sense of the meaning. I didn't wanna watch this movie again unless I was gonna have a serious. Discussion about it.

I grew up Catholic, but by early I was confirmed, went to C, c, D and all that, but never really truly cared about the content or learning about this specific subject. It was literally the only class in any form of schooling that I did not care about. That's probably why the first time I watched this movie, I had absolutely no idea what was going on.

Darren Aronofsky is coming out with another banger. Absolutely. I am down. Okay. Maybe not. Just kidding. Truly, it [00:02:00] was, uh, the different levels of interpretation that the people I had originally watched the movie with, had had from it. We are three very. Similar moviegoers with all totally different perspectives.

On this movie, we left feeling all completely different, and that's truly something I haven't seen in years. Controversy in film doesn't necessarily need to be blatant. It can be like very subtle, so that one person take things as they are so literally. And another can see something metaphorically. I know it's not an easy watch by any means, but I am not here to sugarcoat things, discussing difficult things in getting down to the bread and butter is what I want, and with Mother Aronofsky does just that.

Jonathan VanSickle: You know, we talk about these directors that will play with you to tell a story, and if you have any sort of social anxiety or introverted qualities, this one will drive you up the [00:03:00] wall as is intended to drive the point home. So, I enjoyed the experience of this movie, but I wouldn't willingly do it to myself again.

Gabby Browne: Absolutely. I, yeah, I don't think it's meant to be an easy watch at all, but are any of the Aronofsky movies? No. He loves to make people feel terrible no matter what. Even in the most lighthearted of the sense. Did I need to watch Homegirl and Black Swan rip her fingernail all the way up? No, I didn't. But Aronofsky's gonna make you do that and he's gonna make you watch a baby get ripped apart cuz he wants you to, for me.

Aaron Couser: Watching it the first time. I did not care for the movie at all, but when I watched it a second time before we did this review, I tended to like it a lot more because coming into the movie, I knew it was about kinda the history of the Bible and then I could, you know, oh, pick that symbolism up, pick that symbolism up.

And I found it more enjoyable in that aspect cause I was understanding it instead of being totally confused halfway through the movie and then, oh, I guess, yeah, that's, That's God and she's mother of [00:04:00] nature, and that's Adam and Eve. And I, I really kind of appreciated kind of the subtleties of the movie.

I really did enjoy it, but. Yeah, his movies are tough. Yeah. 

Gabby Browne: You know, his movie, and this one specifically is, this one is just a specific nuance of all of this background information that you have to have where the general public in the United States has grown up in a lot of Christian's households, it's the most popular religion in the United States.

So a lot of people do have that background there that they can watch it and understand. But even like me, I had. A slight religious background and did not understand whatsoever what was going on, where my old roommate knew exactly what was happening the entire time and enjoyed it so much more than both me and the other person watching.

We were so confused and we were like, okay, you seem like you're doing okay. Can you explain what's happening? 

Jonathan VanSickle: I had an inclination, but as soon as the Adam and Eve characters, the doctor and his wife's. Were getting ready to be kicked out. And he said, where will they go? [00:05:00] That for me, locked everything that I had in mind in place.

I mean, there are certain levels to this movie, Gabby, and I think I agree completely with what you said earlier. You could watch this with various levels of knowledge and get completely different stories. Cuz he's really telling three stories. Parallel to each other throughout this movie. Mm-hmm. And that's the story of the Bible.

It's the story of the earth in humanity and the story of this fictional poet and his wife. So realistically, yeah, absolutely. This is one of those movies, you could see it in a variety of ways. I mean, it, it really is a fascinating study in that. 

Gabby Browne: Even though it is a very religious based movie with the humanity and earth plot line, it makes it an anti-religious movie as well, which it's the true story of violence in the Bible, honestly.

Right. And when it's condensed to this level, it just makes it so much more overwhelming.

[00:06:00] It is so frustrating to try to understand the poet or Javier Javi. I love Javi, um, Javi's intentions throughout this movie because you don't see them, you don't, I, I truly do not feel, I feel like he shows up here and there and the full scope of his intentions are never fully seen by the audience. And what brings you to us?

Well, they told me I could find a room here. He thought we would've been on breakfast. We always talk about how this place is too big for the two of us, whereas Jennifer Lawrence's mother, you see every step of confusion in her face. And time is just working so much differently for her than it is for everyone else in this space too.

It's her point of view. Yeah, her, her perspective. Yes. It's either 

Aaron Couser: the camera's on her or it's behind her shoulder or, uh, first person point of 

Gabby Browne: view. Yeah. But she's the only one that you can truly experience and understand her intentions and everything else, I think [00:07:00] is just meant to be confusion. 

Jonathan VanSickle: As far as the poet, I think one of his main motivations that we see time and time again is, um, is worship from his fans, from his devotees.

I mean, that's what sparks his creation. One of the motivations that I would point to in that 

Gabby Browne: character, just so singly motivated in that sense too. He wants all of these things, but it's so hard to understand why, like, why these are his intentions, why he needs this adoration, why this is the case here.

God works in mysterious ways. Yeah. God. Dam it. Yeah, exactly. That is the true frustration. Why God, why?

Jonathan VanSickle: We understand that the poet is lacking inspiration. He doesn't feel motivated, he doesn't feel inspired, 

Gabby Browne: even though Jayla is kicking her butt in giving, giving you, giving him everything. Build him a beautiful house [00:08:00] from the literal ground up. Sir, be a little bit more grateful. Thank 

Aaron Couser: you. Yeah, I was, I'd be inspired, but it's almost seemed like he's, 

Jonathan VanSickle: oh, been here 

Gabby Browne: for just literally painting golden walls.

Like I, what? What are, what else are you supposed to be inspired from? And that porch, you have that rack around balcony and you are not inspired. Try living in a 500 square foot apartment hobby. 

Jonathan VanSickle: So what he does is takes a walk. Have some time by himself. And after that walk, whenever he gets back, we are introduced to the Adam character, which is to imply that the poet, uh, to be inspired, meets this person.

Maybe creates this person depending on what story we're telling here, and he immediately takes him in. Hello. Hello. 

Gabby Browne: So these gentlemen here just started working at the hospital and he thought we were, what do you do there? I'm an orthopedic surgeon. Really? Well, mostly now I do research and teach research.

Aaron Couser: She, 

Jonathan VanSickle: you can tell she's very uncomfortable about it. 

Aaron Couser: Jennifer [00:09:00] Lawrence is assuming that it's just gonna be the poet in her the entire time, you know? Yeah. And it's gonna be holy matrimony. They're gonna have a wonderful existence there. And then man comes in for the first time, she's accepting of it, but man, he's rude.

Smoking in the house. 

Gabby Browne: He's taking claim of her space, like he feels very confident and comfortable in her space and that's, I guess part of the reason I feel like Mother and the poet have that type of like comfortability and not love in their relationship is because whoever else, the poet invites into their house, he expects to have the same type of comfortability with Jennifer Lawrence, and it's like, no, actually I have no fucking clue who this is.

Sorry. No, that's not what you do. Well, and at 

Jonathan VanSickle: the same time it's almost, you know, it's as if she doesn't have a voice. No. And she doesn't have an opinion that matters. Everything, every decision goes through the poet. Yeah. Regardless of how she feels about it or how she tells him that she's uncomfortable with it.

All decisions, all praise to the poet. I think the next important beat them going out, drinking and [00:10:00] mother walking into the bathroom to see this doctor vomiting into the toilet. And we are shown a wound next to his ribcage. 

Gabby Browne: Mm-hmm. The rib being taken from Adam to create Eves. So in the Bible, that is what God did to create Eve.

He took bone from man to create woman, and yeah. Now there's another woman in the house. Mm-hmm. Another lady. It can be a daunting task setting on a new endeavor, starting a business for yourself, but these individuals will hopefully give you the motivation to get there. In the Lighthouse by Spotlight Studios, we talked to some of the most influential leaders and entrepreneurs in the area from humble beginnings and learning where they started.

Aaron Cower and Kim Nemore sit down with these groundbreakers to learn what makes them tick. The lighthouse is a beacon that shines through the darkness, guiding others to their full potential. [00:11:00] So what are you waiting for? Michelle Pfeiffer. You don't have any painkillers, do you? Are you telling me the truth?

I really don't have any. I'm sorry. Okay. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Which I love. Some of the writing is very clever in this, I will say, because there's a part where mother says, you didn't mention you had a wife. 

Gabby Browne: Yeah, no lack of communication between mother and everyone else, right? So yep, we have that change. And how's that relationship 

Aaron Couser: initially between Eve and Jennifer 

Gabby Browne: Lawrence, the mother nature?

Oh, it is strained. It is absolutely strained initially, like she is taking claim of the house in even more of a sense because in traditional. Female male roles, women are the homemakers, and so she's going downstairs and making lemonade, vodka lemonades in the kitchen and she's making a mess. Ed is with [00:12:00] Javier throughout a lot of their time together.

He doesn't really do a lot of like things on his own, so he always has that. Person with him to not get away with things. Michelle Pfeiffer's just doing everything by herself and she's like, oh, you know, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. Whereas like Adam kind of has God there with him.

Yeah. Throughout that entire time. Mm-hmm. Whereas like, I guess that's also in, in the same symbolism of why Eve picks the Apple is because. She's not as close to God 

Aaron Couser: as Adam. What does that mean? What does that symbolize when she breaks that crystal? 

Jonathan VanSickle: Well, I think this really represents this first act as the Garden of Eden, and we see before this, they're drinking, smoking, doing whatever they want with no regard.

Well, that's because man had. Immortality. They had the absolute perfect existence. They had everything they wanted. Everything was provided by Mother Earth. Everything was given to them by God, so they had no worries, no cares, [00:13:00] no problems. They 

Gabby Browne: also had no rules besides one exact precisely. They did state that to them multiple times was do not go into the study.

This study is off limits. The study off is off limits. That's the only rule that they had. Don't go in the study. Jayla is gonna clean up all your, your lemonade every time, but don't go in the study. And 

Aaron Couser: when she broke that crystal, which is basically eating the apple and getting flushed out of heaven, which is a, is basically his room.

Gabby Browne: Or Eden. Or Eden. 

Aaron Couser: Yeah. There's a change. 

Gabby Browne: What have you done? I'm so sorry. We're both sorry. I was telling you this story. It just, it just fell. We'll, search and find promise.

Aaron Couser: What in the world is that Crystal? What does that 

Jonathan VanSickle: symbolize? I'd say just the basic setup of the crystal is we see oftentimes the heartbeat of the house and we see it changing [00:14:00] and getting darker and darker and beating slower and seeming to be more consumed by something. And to me, I believe that is implied by of what?

What was happening to her heart. She's dying. So essentially, That is the crystal. 

Gabby Browne: I agree. Like I could, you could put it into like a very like real sense and say this is the core of the earth. It, it is the health of the earth. As more resources are taken and more things are introduced, obviously they are, they're destroying her.

I mean, I 

Jonathan VanSickle: try to look at things in a very boiled down sense, especially when you're watching a movie like this. What I took from it is it was essentially just. The life force. Yeah, the life stream. When you break down all religions from wherever you are, there is a life force. There is something that gives life and existence.

That was the best answer I could come up with, with what I thought the crystal was and 

Gabby Browne: represented. I like that. Like the creation of nature, creation of the habitat. Just of everything. Yeah, of everything. In the selfish [00:15:00] Javier sense of like the creation of his. Playground for his creation.

Aaron Couser: To me, it was a diamond. I don't know, maybe some people thought it was a crystal. How is diamonds created through? Pressure through pressure between very, in the whole movie is basically a buildup of pressure between man, nature and God. And it was almost like God knew that this pressure had to happen to create this diamond.

The whole point was to get the new diamond. Wow. I like that 

Gabby Browne: too. I do like that idea. And 

Aaron Couser: the diamond is a mineral, but it's also molded by man too. So it's kind of symbolizes mother nature verse, man. It couldn't have been made unless you had all the events that that led up into, you know, to her destruction of, of the people.

As crazy as that 

Jonathan VanSickle: is, I think both of your guys' points are a perfect combination of the things because [00:16:00] it also is that relationship. So you start off pure with something very clear, very clean, perfect earth, and then. Is it a necessary evil? Is it something that will always happen throughout humanity? Is it just God trying to figure out if he can keep this thing clear without messing it up again?

Gabby Browne: Yeah, cuz it breaks 

Jonathan VanSickle: too, but it's so, and it's almost like you said, it's inevitable. It's right. Something that. Seems like it will always happen every time, and yet it's something that we live with and fight against every single day. It's, it's a really big and grandiose analogy, and I think whenever you combine a lot of these ideas, you start to see a bigger picture.

Mm-hmm. 

Aaron Couser: Absolutely. Because a whole, I mean, the whole movie, they all need each other, these three elements, man. God and Mother nature. Mother nature is created by God. She wouldn't even be exist. It wasn't for him. Yeah. But man can't exist without a land to live on. So man needs mother nature, but they're all kinda like destroying each other and 

Jonathan VanSickle: God needs man 

Aaron Couser: and God needs man.

Yeah. He needs the love of man or he doesn't exist. Mm-hmm. [00:17:00] 

Jonathan VanSickle: That's the per that you have to, it's a big love triangle. Yeah. It's just a big right 

Aaron Couser: there. And that creates the diamond. At the end pressure, but, but E but Eve always destroys the diamond from the, from the previous 

Jonathan VanSickle: world. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, so 

Gabby Browne: I gave you this gift.

God created all this gift for you and you, you're gonna break it. You're gonna pick it up and drop it on the ground. I did this for, I did this for you. That's like what Javier is trying to say to the these people. It's kind of brilliant in a way. Yeah. Honestly, it is 

Jonathan VanSickle: brilliant and exhaust. Thing and it really, man, it takes you for a ride.

It's so difficult to wrap your head around all these different themes and things that happen throughout the movie. It really is pure chaos for most of the film, right.

Gabby Browne: Oh, that's when Javi boards up the room. He says, oh, no one's going in here again. Nope, nope, nope. Is 

Jonathan VanSickle: revealed that 

Gabby Browne: immortality is taken away. Yeah, [00:18:00] immortality is taken away. Adam, he uh, he is telling them that he's going to die. He has cancer and he is dying, and that's why he's here. That's why he needs to see the poet and be with the poet.

And now it's. Just so many things are being told to Port Jennifer Lawrence as she had. She just has to deal with them, so, okay. And it's not 

Aaron Couser: just that the boarding up, you can kind of start seeing the house 

Gabby Browne: changing, right? Absolutely. As she feels the house, you can see her connection with the heartbeat of the house.

As more people are introduced and there's more harm caused. To her environment. And I mean, as a housemaker, my God, she's been working so hard. You're just gonna take wood panel up. That's beautiful study. Jesus Christ. Are you kidding me? That would honestly make me more mad than the crystal dropping. I'm sorry.

Things drop. I break things very often, but you're gonna destroy my hard work like this, sir. Now we have the introduction of not only is this man married, but he has two sons, two [00:19:00] adults. Sons that show up at the house and they are in a tiff. One of the brothers was upset because he was cut chop, chopped from that will and took his own brother's life.

It's not my fault, it's not my fault. They never really loved me. They always loved him more. They were leaving me behind one of the Gleasons, two of the Gleasons, the Gleason brothers, the Gleason mother murders, the Gleason murders, um, which was. 

Aaron Couser: A huge, horrible 

Gabby Browne: event that happened. Yep. And it was the introduction of the broken, I guess.

Uh, the first original sin was, uh, Eve taking the apple, but the first broken commandment sin just then was when he took his brother's life and, Through that we see this blood trickle down through the wood and start to morph the wood. It falls through the flooring and into the basement and through there a doorway is [00:20:00] opened.

Meant to signify hell, of course, you know, she kinda sees 

Aaron Couser: that door and she breaks. Yeah. She just is open the wall. Yeah. The oil's there and then you see the kind of the little frog. Jump through, which I think is kind of resembles a 

Gabby Browne: plague. Frogs and toads are always significant of the devil. I mean, they lit.

God said he's gonna reign toads and frogs down on you. They're hand in hand with the devil.

They go to the hospital. He's passed. They come back funeral time and now there's a lot of people coming. A lot of 

people 

Jonathan VanSickle: in there. Yeah. And whenever they leave, I think this is another one of those examples, they leave her behind no regard for her, even though there's just been a murder in this household.

Yeah. At one point when she's cleaning up the mess that's just been left behind, once again, Doha Gleason comes back for his wallet, the murder himself, and he says to her, he says, They left you behind here by yourself. You really do know what it's like. Like you do understand what it's like because she's completely ignored once 

Gabby Browne: again, and [00:21:00] well, and that's also the first sympathy, empathy that has been felt by anyone else.

Aaron Couser: It gets starting to get outta hand 

Gabby Browne: though at this point, right? Yeah, at the funeral. Too many people have too many cooks in the kitchen and no one is respecting anything. How many times did she say if the sink is not brace, do not sit on the sink? Three times in a row she turns her back and their back on the sink again.

They literally, Do not respect her at all in that moment before the sink breaks and the flood is released. That's like just earth once again. Being fed up with the population of humanity, like increasing on her earth, they literally caused the sink to break themselves. They caused the flood on earth and then that was in the Bible.

Another time of like huge human wipeout was Noah's flood. Don't do that. Stop. Stop doing.

[00:22:00] Get out. Get out. You. What happened? Won't. It's alright. We'll fix it. Get out everybody. Out everybody out. But that's also supposed to signify the extinction. Not ex, you know, if we're gonna play games, AOVs, I'm here for it. Okay, why not? Two men were humans were wiped out by invited the flood. Cool. And then we have a little Javi, Jayla.

Jayla. Sexy time. Then the conception. And 

Aaron Couser: now he's inspired to write the his masterpiece.

What in the world 

Gabby Browne: was the yellow powder? She is taking this golden powder. It looks like very iridescent, shaky. It's like glitter. Almost glittery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the only thing I can not compare it to there was like those like vodka leco bottles. That they put like glitter in and they kind of shake and it kind of looks [00:23:00] like that.

That's what I was thinking. So she's taking this gold liquid throughout the movie, under stressful scenarios. She also starts to paint a wall in the room and she paints it gray initially, and I don't know, she doesn't like, that's hard. This is, it is like a hard, like, nah, I don't, that seems weird. So she adds a little gold powder to the paint and starts to paint the wall a golden color.

And so this. Symbolism could mean literally anything to anyone. And even in the realm of theories, when I was even, I had my own theory and then I looked it up and I was like, oh my God, there's like a thousand or so. 

Jonathan VanSickle: She stops being reliant on this substance as well. Mm-hmm. Once she becomes pregnant. Yeah.

So I think that's the other last. Little thing that we know about this 

Gabby Browne: substance. Yeah. It's like the three times that we saw 

Jonathan VanSickle: like this, we just have, okay, what do we know and what do we think? And what is the 

Gabby Browne: substance? Is it heroin, Jennifer? And it could be, it could be. It could be heroin. That's like what?

So if you're taking it very literally, it could be like a derivative of heroin, which is yellow from the yellow [00:24:00] poppies. So, She could be doing heroin, and that could also add to the, uh, what is happening in this movie. 

Aaron Couser: But I'm, I'm like you, Gabby. I, I had to go to the internet and just like see what other people thought of this.

Some of the better ones that I saw was, it was kind of like the sun, 

Gabby Browne: not the sun. Sun, s o n, the sun, s u n, that is above our heads and is pretty, and it's gold and it gives 

Aaron Couser: us a life. Exactly. But that also could be the worship of the sun, paganism. And then once the, once the child is inside of her, then it moves on into Christianity, and then she's flushing, paganism down the toilet.

I kind of like that explanation, but there's an also, I also saw an interview where they asked, Him directly. Aronofsky. Will you ever 

Gabby Browne: talk about the yellow powder? What do you think it is? Well, I, I talk about this movie for five days straight, and that was the one thing that we couldn't tackle, man. Oh, well, it, it leans into 

Aaron Couser: Victorian [00:25:00] literature.

He wouldn't really give them an answer, but he, the clue was you could find it in Victorian literature. And then there was a, there was a short story, 

Gabby Browne: the yellow wallpaper just. A, I think most people read it in high school, but it's just a phenomenal short story. The yellow wallpaper begins with her husband's confusion of the writer's ailments, just because he cannot physically, See her pains and relate to them.

The poet has one foot on the ground with her and one in the sky with the people. He's written for a God-like entity and he cannot pursue one while maintaining the other. The ultimate repetition. Yes. He's constantly gaslighting her and making her feel insane, even though she may be slightly depressed, but.

In the yellow wallpaper to women, or if we're relating it to Mother Jennifer Lawrence specifically are meant to be along for the ride subordinate. That is the entire realm around not really believing women is the, uh, kind [00:26:00] of synopsis of the yellow wallpaper is this doctor figure who has a wife with ailments who is unhappy in her space, and he will not give her any outside outlets or resources who just.

Goes crazy in a room. She feels like she can't escape, so there must be something behind these walls just totally falling apart in this relationship where she doesn't feel loved or trusted, which basically is, is basically, is basically what happens to Jennifer Lawrence. Two men are meant to be active workers and providers, and women are meant to be keepers of the home.

Javier's gaslighting continues until she's a shell of a woman void of creativity and drive. She's done, but don't forget love. Everything he's done is in the name of a better world. He's helping her. When you cannot maintain any part of your life, you regress into yourself. However, creating the fac. God in her head of a happy marriage is a part of her self delusion and power she feels she has over her depression.

Mother [00:27:00] begs for any type of expression or equal stimulation from her husband and never receives it. It's not love. It's never been love. It's, it's always been about his needs. And that's the same with the, the yellow wallpaper. They're in a house in the country for three months and she's like, Hey, can I stay in this room?

And he's like, nah, you're gonna stay in this room. Everything in her world is out of control in the same way that Jennifer Lawrence's world is out of control. And that's well 

Aaron Couser: done. That's well, that's well said. Well, thank you. The yellow powder could symbolize all sorts of little different things, and he wants, he doesn't wanna define it like Krick.

He doesn't wanna define what his movie is. He wants the audience to have that reaction for what they think it is Yeah. For themselves. Because I want you to define it. It loses its power. 

Gabby Browne: Yeah. I like the yellow wallpaper. I can also think, for me personally, it's the yellow wallpaper story with the religious nature of like being related to the earth, like you said earlier.

Yeah, yeah. Paganism, Wicca. Any type of, any, any like witch, nature-based relationship. She's con [00:28:00] she, she taught us to toss that one. She's with the child because she's also with God now. Okay. You know, truly with God, the part for me that was so hard and hurtful, I think that hurt me more than any other part in the movie is when the poet shows him her work and she reads it all the way through and she has.

Tears in her eyes and she's like, that was beautiful. That was amazing. And then he turns around. Everyone already knows about it. Everyone has already read it. Every, it's the publicist. People are showing up. She's literally had seconds to just settle her mind with this and everything is changing around her for this event.

It was just so sad to me. But then that also shows, once again, the difference between time to the earth and time to humanity. And I just, Think that that's like such a pointed thing that is so hard to understand. Things are moving so quickly with the people and so quickly with Javier and like his connection to humanity, but our life is so [00:29:00] much shorter than her life.

That's why things happen so quickly. That's why things are turned around so quickly for her is that people work fast, people die fast. She doesn't have any time to process as this worldly billion year old thing. Mm-hmm. If we're talking in true metaphorical. It's just that one, that one part where you really identify how hard the time difference between them is and her pain.

When she realizes that she doesn't have this one thing to herself, it's for everyone. It's not just for her. 

Aaron Couser: So a religion is made. Mm-hmm. That's when the religion. Is made on Earth. 

Gabby Browne: It's made, yeah. I think it's a new religion cuz Yeah. It's not technically, Christ is not in Christianity yet baby, cuz he is not born.

But 

Aaron Couser: he kind of is made though The baby is in her. 

Gabby Browne: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he's cons, he's not conceived yet. But the idea of Yeah, yeah. Jesus. Because 

Aaron Couser: he didn't write that until the baby was kind of like in, in her. 

Gabby Browne: So he does know that this child is [00:30:00] going to be a gift. A gift, 

Aaron Couser: yeah. The gift, the, another gift from from Mother Nature.

Now that people are really coming out, you know, you thought the funeral was kind of a 

Jonathan VanSickle: disaster, 

Gabby Browne: and now we got the paparazzi, we got a publicist here. What are you doing, Kristin Wigg, the inspiration. Where have you been hiding? Where did you come from? 

Aaron Couser: And then everybody's kind of together. They're huddled up every, you know, they want to see the poet, they want to touch him, they want to hear him talk about this work.

But then there's contention. There's like these sex that pop up, maybe interpretation on this one, scroll is now different. You know? Absolutely. Almost like how we interpret this movie, but maybe little minor, small, different interpretations now are causing massive chaos. Absolutely.

Gabby Browne: I think Chris Wiggs character is meant to signify the voice of organized religion, the collective higher ups in any conglomerate [00:31:00] of religious, like she's not the Pope per se, but she is the priests and the cardinals and the pope and their voice. In the church or more I, if it can be ambiguous, it could be any, any higher ups in religion.

I also liked the idea too, that the printing press was kind of in her realm as well, just because during that time period getting books and being able to receive or share the word was so difficult and the like actual invention of the printing press change. The way religion went around it, the entire world.

So, because you were able to manipulate people's minds. Yeah. Well, and it's like you can also create so many books so quickly. You can create so many works of literature and print things out so quickly that it can reach such a wider audience That I think is part of her character. Like what 

Jonathan VanSickle: YouTube did for information Yeah.

Is what the printing press did for information 

Gabby Browne: in those days. Yeah. And she's just like pr, she's the printing press PR kind of person. So she's reaching people, she's speaking for [00:32:00] God. She is not the voice of God, but she, she's been told by God that she can speak for him. You know, 

Aaron Couser: she, she has more power than Mother Nature at that point.

Absolutely. She's, she's taking these people and executing them and right in front of him. Right in front of him, you know, so I definitely do feel like she's like a higher. Considered a higher religious figure. Like one of his, 

Gabby Browne: that's the persecution of, yeah. Other religions or other followers. Crusades.

Crusades longs that those, and I, I think, yeah, although the war, the soldiers coming in, they're like, yeah, that's crusades for sure.

Mother Nature is going into contractions. She is having a hard time. And finally Javier comes outta nowhere and he's like, I'm finally here to save you. Oh my God, you poor woman. And then the disciples, it was actually a man who was there at the very beginning. When like the paparazzi are taking pictures, he pulls them [00:33:00] up to the garden, and this is once again, The first time they're able to enter his study since he had boarded it up and it's for the first time in a long time.

It's just God and Mother Earth together,

and then she gives birth in the study. And she is just so overwhelmed with happiness and like she loves her child and she is holding her child. It's a boy. Of course. Yeah. Doug, that's a boy. Oh my God, 

Jonathan VanSickle: that's a boy. 

Gabby Browne: Oh, the hold. And then he's like, how old hobbies over there like, oh my God, I need to hold my child.

I need to see my child. The people need to see my child. Of course. And it's like, yeah, Javier, God, accent voice. And Jennifer Lawrence is like, no wonder God. What? No, we are not giving this. [00:34:00] Baby to these people. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Is it even said though like that? Because first I believe he just asked to hold his son. Yes. And she, and at this point she's like, she says, no, no way.

Gabby Browne: Yeah. And then, but I'm her father and she goes, I am her mother. Oh wow. Yep. Just like that. Well, I think it's insane. She, this girl, this woman is smart. She is. She has seen some shit and she has learned, she knows what Javier is going to do. She knows that if that baby is placed in that man's hands, that's not her baby anymore.

Jonathan VanSickle: She dozes off, exhausted from going through labor, and that's when she wakes up and you see her arms empty and almost literal. Immediately your world just crashes down and you go, oh. Good. Uh, here we go. It happened 

Gabby Browne: so quick. The way he shot that scene was, so I, I got, I got gooses right now just thinking about it.

She's looking down and up and he's holding the baby up and everyone is looking at the baby and they're all screaming. And Jennifer is like, no. 

Jonathan VanSickle: And the [00:35:00] escalation is so perfect because it's, it starts terrifying and then little things start happening. Little hands start reaching out to touch the child.

Then the baby is like, Crowd surfing over these terrible humans that we've seen do unspeakable things. 

Gabby Browne: And you see poor mother grappling through the crowd trying to reach her baby, begging for her baby,

and then all of a sudden one man's hand goes up, grabs snap the baby is.

Aaron Couser: Even after that happens, Javier's begging Jennifer Lawrence to forgive them, they just killed your baby Javier. And you're begging Mother Nature to forgive the people because he just needs their love no matter what. Mm-hmm. So much. You 

Gabby Browne: kidding? You good. I, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. They just want to see him.

They [00:36:00] just want to touch it, and then they, but we can't, we cannot diaper nothing. We can't, maybe what happened could change everything. Everyone, we, we have to find, wait to 

Aaron Couser: forgive them even though they murdered his child. Son of God. He still wants to forgive them. Do you think 

Gabby Browne: that God has a planned destiny?

Do you think he knew that his son was going to be killed by the people? Do you think that that was in his plan? 

Aaron Couser: Uh, I think he knows it's gonna happen because it's happened probably thousands of times before. Yeah, it's a cycle. 

Jonathan VanSickle: That's what I was gonna say. He 

Aaron Couser: just, but maybe he's waiting for something to be different, 

Jonathan VanSickle: so she goes down.

Gabby Browne: Down to the basement. She is flamed. Javier follows her. The people follow her. They're all begging. Please don't do this. Don't do this. Don't, don't, don't. Please don't. I love you. He never loved me. [00:37:00] You just loved how much I loved you. I gave you everything.

You gave it all way

flicks that match up in flames. The entire house is just in totally enveloped. Everyone is burnt to a crisp and you see God the only one who is not burnt. Unscathed. Uns. SC looking like fresh out of the shower. Nice. Javier picks up Jennifer Lawrence's burnt, crispy body. He carries her. She asks who he hits and he replies, I am I.

What are you?

I am, bye. You. You were home and that mother was home.[00:38:00] 

Yes. Can I do one more thing? You know that I love you, and she says yes, and he reaches into her chest, pulls out her heart, which is a black dis. Gusting mess and she, he wipes it off and there's this beautiful crystal underneath, totally clear crystal. When he goes and sets it back on the mantle, the red lines flow through the crystal and we are reborn into a new world.

Mother's formation is formed on the bed, but it's not mother, it's not Jay la. I, 

Jonathan VanSickle: I think the way the movie is written, it does imply that this is absolutely a cycle. We obviously only get to see one round of this cycle, but yeah, it's almost, you know, it's almost a sick experiment. Like someone's just playing with ants under a magnifying glass or something, you know?

I mean, well he gets angry though when, 

Aaron Couser: when E breaks that apple, even though she's probably broken it a thousand times, but maybe he's just so mad cuz he was just hoping maybe this is the time she doesn't do it. You can't, she can't stop herself. Even when [00:39:00] Jennifer Lawrence has asked God who he is. Oh yeah, my I am I, mm-hmm.

Man is man and mother. Nature's mother nature. They all need each other for this reincarnation experience,

Gabby Browne: would you watch 

Aaron Couser: this 

Jonathan VanSickle: movie or recommend it to friends and family? Aaron 

Aaron Couser: Cower. I always recommend crazy movies to people. When I was in high school, all my like nerd, intellectual friends thought Pie was like the revolutionary movie when it came out. And in a way it was, 

Gabby Browne: it was very, it was a very good upsetting movie as he does.

You never seen, saw anything like that. You know? We're really hand and black and white too. Like making that decision in the late nineties is very pointed. A lot of his characters 

Aaron Couser: kind of res. Resembled the same person where it was this ambitious and obsessive and almost delusional character trying to be great, almost to the detriment of who they are.

Yeah, like flying too close to the sun and [00:40:00] destroying themselves to, to reach a certain level of greatness. For example, the mathematician in Pie, the wrestler and the wrestler, uh, the drug addicts in R for a Dream. The surgeon in the fountain, uh, the ballet dancer in Black Swan and the Biblical Fi figure, Noah.

In Noah, they all had the same ambitions. They all had the same almost cycles, right? What you know, his parents were these intellectuals that were school teachers. In 1987, he enrolled in Harvard to major in social anthropology, which is basically the study of patterns of behavior and human societies and culture, and that's basically all his movies are.

Very character 

Jonathan VanSickle: driven, very emotional, very, very on the nose to an uncomfortable amount. But I think when you watch a lot of his films and you like to see, see a lot of these similar themes, I feel like you're being shown a pretty good glimpse of how this person feels about humanity and how they feel about themselves.

Gabby Browne: It is a reflection, I'm sure on his own personal idea, but it is mostly his idea of what human [00:41:00] beings are capable of and what humanity is capable of, because he's seen 

Aaron Couser: it. When he left home, he traveled all through Alaska and Kenya in the Middle East backpacking. So, you know, he's, he's seen a, a level of humanity that most people never get to see.

Gabby Browne: I wanna go backpacking through Alaska and Kenya. I wanna go to Harvard. I wanna go to Harvard. And then not even be a social anthropologist. I'm, 

Aaron Couser: I'm sorry you're not, you're not obsess and compulsive enough. 

Gabby Browne: I'm sorry, Erin Osky. When you are like emotionally intelligent and can relate to a movie, it's always like, man, why?

Why? Why do I care about these people so much? Because it's you. I mean, yeah. You're seeing yourself in these 

Aaron Couser: people. You, you don't wanna think that's true, but in a way he's right. A, a lot about human beings. Mm-hmm. And how terrible we can be, but how, how complex really we are. He's not gonna make a slapstick comedy.

Gabby Browne: It's just not. It's not. I want to see an [00:42:00] aronofsky's slapstick comedy. I want that right now. Like imagine like a really messed up Three stooges, like an Aronofsky, three stooges. For some 

Jonathan VanSickle: reason, the lighthouse came to mind. I was like, it'd probably be like the lighthouse. Probably be dark, disgusting, phallic kind.

Funny, kinda funny. Right? 

Aaron Couser: His movies love 'em or hate 'em, give you a reaction and they make you think about things that you're not comfortable thinking about and it brings out maybe something inside of you that you didn't know you had inside yourself. Maybe that like that diamond, as stupid as that is, but this true, like she didn't know she had that diamond in her, you know, mother.

And it took a horrible experience to 

Gabby Browne: find it. I just realized something as we were talking that was, yeah, I mean, your formation into a diamond could absolutely be the thing, because like her heart is becoming black, so it could be forming coal around her heart and the pressure of the actual like, Deterioration of the earth is [00:43:00] not blackness forming around her heart.

It's actually like you could put it as a coal metaphor and then with the pressure, that's when, so the heart is always in her, but she can feel it as a part of the space she's into. 

Jonathan VanSickle: This is an experience. This is gonna make you feel things. After I watched this movie, I wanted to go out and hug Mother Earth and say, I'm so, so.

Sorry for what we have done to you, and I think all of you should do the same if you watch this movie and think about that because the way that you were taken through this journey was through Mother Earth's perspective. Think of the way that made you feel. Think of the way we make this planet feel that we live on top of, and we're supposed to live harmoniously with.

Think of how it feels by the way we treat it. Put that mirror to yourself because that's exactly what you're watching. 

Gabby Browne: And with that from Revelation 21, 1, then I saw a new heaven and a new Earth for the first heaven, and the first earth had passed away and the sea was no more. Amen. [00:44:00] Amen. Amen.

All of our resources will be found in the show notes or on the website. Please check them out if you have any questions.