This is Part 2! If you haven't listened to Part 1, TURN BACK!
Who are you without your identity? Your mind? When all is lost and your expectations truly evade reality. Or what you think is reality. Trust in yourself is one of the most important concepts to life so where do you turn when even you are the lost soul?
"Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everyone I've ever known." - Chuck Palahniuk
This is Part 2! If you haven't listened to Part 1, TURN BACK!
Who are you without your identity? Your mind? When all is lost and your expectations truly evade reality. Or what you think is reality. Trust in yourself is one of the most important concepts to life so where do you turn when even you are the lost soul?
"Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everyone I've ever known." - Chuck Palahniuk
[00:00:00]
Aaron Couser: What do you think the blue box represents?
Jonathan VanSickle: The blue box obviously kind of acts as a doorway of Betty Diane's mind, her consciousness coming to terms with what she's done in her dream. Her consciousness is on vacation, essentially. And I think that's what the box represents. It represents that portal between the reality and this fantasy that she's concocted.
You
Aaron Couser: don't see it until she goes to Silencio, and she sees what is happening to the ladies, primarily, who are giving themselves to the casting couch. When the singer sings a song about basically losing her, their love, it's basically their love of their innocence, or their naivety, maybe their dream, losing their dream of what they thought Hollywood was going to be like.
Their
Gabby Browne: expectations. Thinking that this is... As someone who literally went to school for acting, thinking this is like a lucrative career, thinking [00:01:00] this is something that not won't be easy, but that I'm different. I'm special, not the pick me girl kind of thing. But you know what I mean? Like in the situation of you're literally.
Selling yourself. You are the rejection. There's something wrong with you when you don't get the part, it's this void. And
Aaron Couser: Betty at that time understands that that's why she's shaking, because now she knows that that's who she is because she just had sexual relationship with Camilla, who, in my opinion, represents the casting couch.
And now she knows that her soul. Just like that singer who, who passed out is going to be lost and the box emerges. As
Jonathan VanSickle: they ended that moment they had together before they go to Silencio, Betty looks at her and she says, I love you. And Camilla doesn't say anything back. I thought that, that unreciprocated love was a big moment as
Gabby Browne: well.
It's very pointed. Yes. That's very metaphorical of what, what does that mean for [00:02:00] her? Showing love and not receiving anything back. That's the industry, baby!
Aaron Couser: So the blue box is basically maybe the shame? It's
Gabby Browne: the shame, but it's also just like, this endless void. When you unlock the box, the endless void of dark secrets, too.
The endless bag that Hermione has in Harry Potter. Like, but Bag of holding. Yeah, she holds her books and her things and clothes and stuff, and the little black. The little blue box of Hollywood is where they hold all of the misguided deeds, the fucked up shit that goes down. These directors that are sexually harassing and insinuating women need to sell their bodies in order to get a role.
Or if you don't, you won't. be there. You won't be this good. It's the little infinite blue box that holds all of Hollywood's corruption. And
Aaron Couser: David Lynch uses blue all the time. Especially like in Twin Peaks. Blue Velvet! Blue Velvet. [00:03:00] Mystery. Secrecy. He also likes red
Jonathan VanSickle: too. I think in this movie, I think it's pretty clear cut.
I think Blue means truth and reality, what is actually happening, what is, you know, facts. And I think red represents lies and deception. Yeah. I think that's pretty as clear cut as it gets on this one.
Aaron Couser: Time to wake up. The older ladies in the apartment building are basically old Hollywood classic actresses, warning her that there's trouble, warning her you're going down a bad path.
It's giving Diane an opportunity to make the right decision when she wakes up. Aunt Ruth is back from her trip filming in Canada. Comes back to an apartment that is clean, looks perfectly put together. It's almost like Betty and Camilla were never even there to begin with. After Ruth walks out
Jonathan VanSickle: and notices that the apartment's empty, you get once again this distorted [00:04:00] swirling, the images are back and
Aaron Couser: forth.
We're out of that dream and we're back into a different reality. And we see
Jonathan VanSickle: a familiar looking body laying on a bed, but this time it looks
Aaron Couser: alive. Diane. It's Diane. It's the real Diane. It's the real Diane! She is awoken by the cowboy. Hey, pretty
Gabby Browne: girl. Hey, pretty girl. Time to wake up.
Aaron Couser: Now you will see me one more time if you do good.
You'll see me two more times if you do bad. That's the first time Diana's gonna see the cowboy.
Gabby Browne: But then she is awakened in real life from her neighbor coming to get some more of her things. Diane, she wakes up looking a [00:05:00] little rough today, and I don't like to say that about my queen Naomi. She does wake up looking a little bit frazzled, possibly a little hungover.
Jonathan VanSickle: When you can see immediately the tone and the colors, everything seems a lot darker.
The apartment is... kind of mess compared to the beautiful apartment that she was at before and her Aunt Ruth's. There's
Gabby Browne: boxes everywhere. This uncomfortable space.
Aaron Couser: The apartment has this kind of a blue tint to it. You also see the blue key. But
Jonathan VanSickle: it's different. This doesn't look like some mystical space key like it was before.
This looks It's like Home Depot hardware store. Yeah, the one that
Gabby Browne: you have to pay a little extra for to have the color on it, or like if it were like, you know, like someone, sometimes people will get their dog's names on it. That's what it reminded me of. You know, she probably paid a little extra for this
Aaron Couser: blue key.
The neighbor goes away. She goes and looks out the window for a while. drinks her coffee. She turns, she sees Camilla. The[00:06:00]
vision of Camilla has come back and she makes this coffee to bring over to her. When she puts the coffee on the table, actually it turns into a cocktail.
Gabby Browne: That's why it makes me think it's a flashback. It's a flashback. So that it's like, hey, I'm just remembering this moment of us together and it's her same couch.
But like, I have a feeling that all of these apartments look the same. So this could definitely be a flashback from when she was. Staying in apartment 12.
Aaron Couser: Their past relationship, when they were a couple and intimate together. The good
Gabby Browne: old days. She's reminiscing. She's in the moment. And Camila tells her, we shouldn't do this anymore, and she says, don't say that.
Aaron Couser: It's him, isn't it? Adam. Hank, can you just clear the set? It's just, there's too many people around here. Let's get this worked out. Set! One please! Can Diane stay? On the set of a movie that Camilla is starring in, this is a very important scene because it shows Adam showing another, maybe, it's gotta be the actor.
Jonathan VanSickle: He's trying to show him how he wants the [00:07:00] scene done. You
Gabby Browne: should be a good enough director to be able to tell someone, verbalize it in your own words, and not physically show them step by step what you want. The Hitchcock used to do that, where he was very, like, pointed and would literally put himself in the scene and was like, do this, do this.
Aaron Couser: Do this. And during this tutorial, trying to explain how to get the lady to be seduced, Adam wants everybody off the set, but Camilla wants Betty to watch. She wants Betty to see what Betty needs to do to get the
Jonathan VanSickle: role. At this point, Adam is very, very comfortable and, um, definitely taking advantage of his power in the situation.
Predatory
Gabby Browne: man, predatory man. I truly think she's trying to make her feel jealous too. Our relationship is also wrong. She literally told her we can't do this
Aaron Couser: anymore. It shows Diane kicking Camilla out of her life. But without Camilla, life is very miserable.
Gabby Browne: She's I'm scared now. [00:08:00] She cares about Camilla and wants to be with Camilla and of course we have this sad winking scene.
Very sad. Um. I can't. I can't. What was that you were saying, beautiful? I said,
you drive me wild. She's in love with Camilla, but she's also in love with the idea of Camilla. She's in love with this persona, this beautiful, dark haired temptress that's doing well. She's getting the lead roles. Naomi's in, like, peasant gear, basically. Like, she looks like she's the housemaid in this movie, this 1950s movie, you know?
She's an extra or something. She's an extra, yeah. She doesn't, she's not lead actress. She's aspiring to be lead actress. To be Camilla. Yeah, but she doesn't want to get there the way Camilla would be getting there.
Aaron Couser: When all things seem lost and dire, there's a phone call. Underneath the red [00:09:00] lampshade. From the beginning of the
Gabby Browne: the movie.
Wow, we've made a full circle
Jonathan VanSickle: everyone. This is the first time that phone is picked up in this movie. All the other times we just see it ringing, we just see this moment, and then finally, Camilla walks into the, er, Betty, ah, Diane walks into the room.
Aaron Couser: Please leave that in there. Please leave that in there.
It's tough. It's tough,
Jonathan VanSickle: okay.
Aaron Couser: Jesus Christ. Betty.
Jonathan VanSickle: Diane walks into the room and finally picks
Aaron Couser: up the ringing phone. And it's Camilla, telling Diane there's a car waiting. And the address is going somewhere on Mulholland Drive.
Gabby Browne: 80 Mulholland Drive. Mulholland Drive. It's been waiting. Girl's in a tank top dress, looking a little scandalous.
She knows that she has to get to that address on Mulholland Drive.
Aaron Couser: What are you doing? [00:10:00] We don't stop here.
Jonathan VanSickle: We start seeing her riding in this limo and we realize this is a familiar limo. And again.
The limo stops
Aaron Couser: at the exact same spot as it stopped for Camilla and she says the exact same thing Camilla says, what are you doing? We don't stop here. Surprise. Camilla opens the door, literally
Gabby Browne: comes out of the woods
Aaron Couser: and she says something very, very important shortcut and they enter a Hollywood party from the back.
She's greeted by Adam, offers both Camilla and Diane drinks, and says here's to love. Ah, here she is. Coco, who is apparently Adam Kesher's mom, Coco's hungry. She wants to get this dinner going, but they've had to wait on Diane to show up to the party. During the actual dinner portion of the party, Diane says that she won this jitterbug [00:11:00] contest and that it sort of led to acting.
You can
Gabby Browne: tell at this point, too, that it hasn't been what she's expected. Her aunt is dead, too. Her aunt's been dead the whole time.
Jonathan VanSickle: And she didn't leave her an apartment or anything like that. She just left her a little bit in the will. The jitterbug contest just seemed to fall in line and drove her to chase this.
And that's where she met Camilla on the set of Sylvia North's
Gabby Browne: story. She
Aaron Couser: said she wanted to be the lead actress, but they picked Camilla instead.
Gabby Browne: God and Coco now has turned from like loving to just like a judgmental bitch, honestly.
Aaron Couser: You hear Camila say something very strange in Spanish that she never went to Casablanca with Luigi.
All the men kind of like snicker and laugh and basically don't believe her. Going to Casablanca with Luigi is going and sleeping with Luigi to get the roll. In the Sylvia North story. You'll see me two more times if you do bad. Camilla Rhodes walk [00:12:00] into the picture. Kiss Camilla on the lips. There's a mark, a lipstick mark on Camilla Rhodes.
And she walks out from behind the party. And the cowboy enters. So I guess we've saved the best for last. Diane is obviously furious.
Gabby Browne: Luigi's there in the background. They definitely make eye contact. They got his espresso right this time. He's actually drinking it, guys. It's got the napkin and everything.
Aaron Couser: Diane's also drinking an espresso, and on the cup it says S. O. S. on it. Tells Coco that Camilla's helped her get a few parts, and Coco pats her hand. Now we know how you got those parts. Yeah, buddy. As Diane looks at Luigi, She is now doing the things that Camilla has done to get to a certain status in Hollywood.
Adam interrupts everybody and is about to make a big announcement. That they're gonna get married? That they're gonna get married.
Jonathan VanSickle: Yeah, it's very... Are you gonna tell
Gabby Browne: him? No, you tell him. She's gross.
Aaron Couser: And then it cuts.[00:13:00]
You hear the car accident one more time. Cuts to Winkies and... The waitress has dropped plates and silverware.
Gabby Browne: And we see homeboy assassin from earlier, but he has two blue eyes this time, just kind of slightly different. Naomi looks up at the waitress's name tag that says Betty. Ha ha ha. She is inquiring some shady stuff from this individual.
Aaron Couser: She's got a bag of cash. She pulls out a picture of Camilla and says, This is the girl. Love it. It
Gabby Browne: is. This is the girl.
Aaron Couser: Okay, now once you hand that over to me, it's a done deal. You sure you want this?
Gabby Browne: More than anything in this world.
Jonathan VanSickle: I thought the hitman personally for me, we, we talked about, you know, when does the dream exactly happen?
There's a lot of questions about that, but for me personally, the dream is almost [00:14:00] her wishful thinking like, well, you know, maybe she won't die and maybe this hit man's an idiot and he won't be able to get the job done properly. And maybe. This is her way of rationalizing after she has already made the decision and put the hit out on her.
I think the dream is her rationalization of, Okay, so she's not going to die. It's, it's, it's going to be fine. This, this is going to be all right. I'm going to be Betty. And I'm going to help her figure out what's going on with her life and
Gabby Browne: blah, blah. And be the best, like most pure, the like true, like victor and inspiration for, you know, like she wants to be the best version of what she wishes she was when she got there.
She wishes. Like, this is her true idealism, is this dream. It's like, everything, if it would have gone the way it should have gone. I think there's also multiple layers too, I'm
Aaron Couser: sorry. Yeah, and she's also rationalizing why she's not getting the roles. There's a mafia that controls all of it. She was brilliant in the audition.
It's not her talent. Everyone thinks they're just a brilliant talent, and it's [00:15:00] not their fault they're not getting ahead.
Gabby Browne: There's so many other reasons outside of you, but then that's why she sees herself in so many of these other people. The very, like, metaphorical comparison of Camilla to, what did you call it, the couch?
Casting couch, the very like less metaphorical and more direct comparison of like literally seeing herself in every single actor, actress, person in this movie, including Camilla. And that's why she turns into her at the end as well as this, like, it could have been me. It could have been me. I could have been that I could have done that.
I could have been this person. What's it open?
Aaron Couser: When it's finished, she will find the blue key where he told her it would be. Which we obviously saw it on her table. But she asks, she goes, what is it open? And he laughs. She stares back [00:16:00] over at the Winkies counter and we see the man from the dream who had the dream about Winkies from the beginning of the movie stare right back at her.
The guy who
Jonathan VanSickle: has the dream about the bum, she sees him in the diner when she's making the deal. He almost gives her the face, the face that he explains to his friend later. It's like almost he can see her spirit in that moment and what she's doing. With that in mind, also what I said about the elderly couple in mind, I think the bum kind of represents her contempt and animosity for herself and the things that she's done, the things that she's about to do.
This is the thing that's making this all happen. This bum, this thing, this loathing that you have for yourself is what's making this all happen.
Gabby Browne: And it's hidden, it's hidden behind the least beautiful place in the entire movie, you just shove it
Jonathan VanSickle: down, you just shove it back. You gotta keep that shit And then, like I said, and on top of that Throw that shit behind Winkies!
Inside this little box, your own self loathing and animosity can unleash [00:17:00] complete destruction of your own consciousness because you'll just eat yourself alive. Literally, the
Gabby Browne: void will take you. Exactly.
Aaron Couser: Oh, man. And the camera starts panning now behind Winky's again.
Gabby Browne: In this red, red blue glow.
Aaron Couser: And we see the bum.
But this time the bum has the blue box. And he puts it in a little trash baggie and spits it on the ground. And the little old people start dancing around. Out of the
Gabby Browne: box. It's my favorite part. The little old people in this movie is the best. Funny. Not funniest part. It's scary as hell. I'm honest to God.
Aaron Couser: Back at Diane's apartment, we now see the blue key on the table. Whatever that deed is has been done with the coffee that she had previously got when she first awoke. Yeah. So we know the flashbacks are over. Like this signifies now we are back when the cowboy woke her up and [00:18:00] Diane's just stares at that blue key.
The door knocks viciously. The miniature older people crawl underneath the door and begin just to terrorize Diana. She sees
Gabby Browne: those little people climbing under the door, but then they get large. They're like chasing her around with the big creepy smiles. Ah, we're gonna get ya. We're gonna get ya, Diane. The hallucinations are getting a little too much now for her.
She's, she is like absolutely losing it right now. I mean, I probably would too if, if old people climbed underneath my door and started, I'm gonna get you a tickle monster time. Like, no fucking thank you, please. And no, she can't do it anymore. She can't do it anymore.
Aaron Couser: It's just unbearable. Everything. Opens up a cupboard, finds a gun, and shoots herself.
An interesting thing is when she's looking for that gun, you see that blue box in that cupboard. It has now reemerged in her reality.
Gabby Browne: When she shoots herself, uh, the smoke just [00:19:00] fills the room. And then it cuts to black, the black void, the
Aaron Couser: blue box. The bum kind of emerges From the smoke, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Then fades away, and then we're back to this dreamlike state, to the jitterbug competition. But this time, Camilla is here with the blonde wig. Back in the, you know, maybe the happiest time of her life. When
Gabby Browne: she was Camilla's savior.
Aaron Couser: As the lights fade, the blue haired lady from Silencio whisper, Silencio.
Silence, and the movie ends.
Is it a ghost story? It's, it, it's a ghost story for you. That's the thing. It doesn't matter what I say. Zip. It can only be a negative. The thing is built so you don't want to take anything away, and you don't want to add anything to it. It's complete. [00:20:00] Lynch wants you to be the detective of his movie. He wants you to kind of, you know, There's so many different clues that we haven't even touched on as I said before of things that could support some other theory or other idea that, uh, makes sense to somebody.
And that's the awesome part.
Jonathan VanSickle: I mean, I was just looking up all the, like, the Rita Hayworth story, the Roy Orbison using crying as that track in the theater. That's Roy Orbison's actual song, they just translated it to Spanish, which is brilliant. Anne Miller's life and the way she came to fame and her story with Hollywood, who played Coco in the movie, absolutely insane.
Started dancing in a club when she was 13, told them she was 18. So, I mean, all these decisions that he made, and we already talked about the brilliance of the script. Everything is with intent. Go through, watch it yourself, find your own theories, and honestly, this is one you could, you could go through multiple times and obviously still be surprised by what you find.
Aaron Couser: So, unlock that blue box, step on inside Mulholland
Gabby Browne: [00:21:00] Drive. Do you wanna unlock that blue box, Aaron? I'm good as shit. You go, okay, let's, let's... I might, I might hide that blue box. I'm gonna hide my blue box for a little bit
Aaron Couser: longer, I think. We'll put it in the closet and just pretend it's not there. I'm gonna
Gabby Browne: put it in the hat box, put it in the closet, make sure that it's hidden nice and tight, you know.
The Gibby secret
Aaron Couser: box. Until next time. Mhm. No
Gabby Browne: hay bando, no hay orquesta, silencio.
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