In its essence, what does it mean to strive for perfection? You must be flawless, fearless of the competition who think they're standing in your way. But no one is truly more in the way than yourself. Where material possessions and consumption are the real consumers of your monotonous life. How are you supposed to survive in such a pristine world? And that’s when the perfect veneer surrounding Patrick Bateman's life begins to crack. When the undertones of his true intentions begin to seep into his perfect life. What are you to do when the thoughts become to much?
In its essence, what does it mean to strive for perfection? You must be flawless, fearless of the competition who think they're standing in your way. But no one is truly more in the way than yourself. Where material possessions and consumption are the real consumers of your monotonous life. How are you supposed to survive in such a pristine world? And that’s when the perfect veneer surrounding Patrick Bateman's life begins to crack. When the undertones of his true intentions begin to seep into his perfect life. What are you to do when the thoughts become to much?
American Psycho Part 1
Gabby Browne: [00:00:00] This podcast is an association with Spotlight Studios, a family of podcasts driven to create unique, one of a kind content. If you have any interest in learning more, please visit spotlightstudiospodcast. com. Welcome to our first October thriller pick, American Psycho. We're here to bring you the thrills of the life of Patrick Bateman.
Don't miss out on our next pick this month, the October classic, Donnie Darko. There are no more barriers to cross. All the mayhem I have caused and my utter indifference toward it have now surpassed. This confession has meant nothing.
Aaron Couser: I think it clarified the themes of the novel. It clarified that the novel was actually a critique of male behavior.
A lot of people also, I think, who are afraid of the novel, who haven't read the novel, don't understand that it's basically a comedy.
Gabby Browne: A woman made a film that you wouldn't expect. [00:01:00] It's not a serial killer story in the sense that they have the pursuit, the hunter, and the hunted. I had sort of mixed feelings, real love hate feelings, for the late 80s.
And I thought Brad caught something about it that no one else had. She really put herself on the line,
Aaron Couser: you know, and I so appreciate that, because she had so many known actors who were stepping up and wanted to do it, and she just said, No, I want Christian,
Gabby Browne: even though all the financiers were saying, We're gonna give you no
Aaron Couser: money.
Three,
Gabby Browne: two,
Aaron Couser: one. Almost like a canvas. It's meant to be ambiguous for you to make your own decisions on what this art piece really is. Being directed
Gabby Browne: by a woman and rewritten by a woman makes it such a unique aspect, such a unique look.
Jonathan VanSickle: He clearly has lost touch with his inner humanity and his inner self.
He's a man behind a mask. He says it a million times. Bateman
Aaron Couser: does actually have an arc in the movie. Of course, yes. What's in the arc?
Gabby Browne: He goes from psychopath to [00:02:00] psychotic.
In its essence, what does it mean to strive for perfection? You must be flawless. Fearless of the competition who think they're standing in your way. But no one is truly more in the way than yourself. Where material possessions and concerns Assumption are the real consumers of your monotonous life. How are you supposed to strive in such a pristine world?
And that's when the perfect veneer surrounding Patrick Bateman's life begins to crack when the undertones of his true intention begin to seep into his perfect life. What are you to do when your thoughts become too much? I'm Gabby Brown here with Erin Cower. Hello and Jonathan Van Sickle. Hi, and this is The Limelight by Spotlight [00:03:00] Studios.
American Psycho, what a movie. Along with Fight Club and Pulp Fiction, this 2000s hit is right at the top of the list of filmography for bros. I'm currently doing air quotes. Although this movie is seeping with toxic masculinity, American Psycho is not all you think. Brought to the screen by two women, Mary Herron and Guinevere Turner.
This movie adaptation of Bret Easton Ellis's stupidly violent book takes a more thought provoking look at the life of a stockbroker, Patrick Bateman, and his spiral into violence. I've always loved this movie. From Christian Bale's insane music monologues to the naked run down the hallway with his chainsaw, Bale's performance really captured me.
And let's just face it, Patrick Bateman is an idiot, truly. It's so exciting to discuss One of the most notorious killers on film, or, I [00:04:00] guess, not killer? I guess we'll get to that in a moment.
A sociopath is a person with a personality disorder that is marked by traits of impulsivity, risk taking, and violence. A psychopath is a person who has antisocial personality disorder characterized by a lack of regard for the rights, feelings of others, controlled manipulative behavior, and the absence of shame and inability to form emotional relationships.
I
Aaron Couser: simply am not. From the beginning of this movie, you basically know this is a horror style film. You see the blood dropping from the top of the screen
Gabby Browne: from the beginning. She's setting you up. There's going to be some gore, not too much gore. Just enough. Just tastefully enough. With
Jonathan VanSickle: the blood in that intro scene it kind of transfers into the plates [00:05:00] of these fine dining restaurants, into the food, into these people talking about these dishes and these exotic ingredients.
And I think it really sets up another one of the themes that I think is important in this is that. People in this spot of power will kill, take advantage of, do whatever they want to get to this point. So it's the transition of the commoners blood, these normal people that they stomp on along the way to get to these elite restaurants to have these 500, 600 meals and just not even bat an eye.
Literally,
Gabby Browne: only 570. Wow. What a cheap lunch. I was like, okay, uh, sorry. You were saying? It's already setting up the normal folk to understand that this is a dilution. I cannot comprehend spending 570 on
Jonathan VanSickle: lunch. Well, and then one of the funny things that I think kind of sets up another theme, they all throw down the exact same American Express business card.
This is just showing these people, they're all the same. These are all American psychos. These are all crazy megalomaniac [00:06:00] men who have gotten to this power position and they've all done unspeakable things to get there.
Aaron Couser: This is a conformity style movie. We're going to have to wait and see what problems start arising internally.
Exactly. From that.
Gabby Browne: Huge thematics of identity and what, who, who are these men? Who are these women?
Jonathan VanSickle: I just want to feel normal. I just want to be normal. That's all he wants. I want to fit in. To be accepted. So, yeah, we start to see the detriment of that as we go throughout the film.
Gabby Browne: Doesn't she say his dad owns a company too?
Trust fund baby, trust fund baby.
Jonathan VanSickle: Harvard, Harvard business.
Gabby Browne: It's also the insinuation too that all of these other people probably have rich parents as well who got them into these situations too. And no one really seemed like they had to do a lot of hard work before this is all I'm saying. It
Aaron Couser: was fun to watch the waiters describing the food to these gentlemen.
Listing all the specials by memory. Squid ravioli. The [00:07:00] restaurants themselves are a status symbol, are almost a character within the film. Like, people's business cards are a status of who they are, and they go crazy if they can't get into the right spots. We never actually get to see Dorsia. I wish we could.
I guess it's booked all the time. You cannot get a reservation. The elite of the elite.
Gabby Browne: Stockbroker heaven. The epitomal pearly gates of the stockbroker dream lunch, I guess. If you're at Dorsia, you've made
Aaron Couser: it. The way they talk to each other is very interesting. They jab at each other. There's just internal competition at all times with this kind of culture.
And lifestyle high pressure, even though they don't like to show it in their mannerisms internally, they are constantly competing in their dialogue and how they negotiate with each other. It's actually pretty fascinating. Patrick
Gabby Browne: is always trying to convince every single person around him that he is a good person.
He does not show by [00:08:00] action. In any way, shape, or form that he's a good person, but he actively has to tell everyone his opinions to make him seem like a good person.
Aaron Couser: We have to provide food and shelter for the
Gabby Browne: homeless. Hi everyone, I'm trying to convince you that I want to save the orphans. Do I actually give a fuck about orphans?
No, I don't, I don't care. He only cares about
Aaron Couser: himself. But he's brilliant at doing it, and everyone listens. Mmm, yes.
Gabby Browne: Cannot argue with this. No one can argue with it, because of course you're saying the right thing right now. Well,
Jonathan VanSickle: and I think that's a big part of it. I mean, we're just gonna call it yuppie culture from here on out, because I think that's all it is.
That is also another big theme in this movie, is that people are so concerned about appearing to have the right intentions, appearing to care about apartheid and world hunger. They care so much. We have to fix these problems. But they can't even see a murder in their mists. They become so involved in themselves that they can't even see in front of their noses.
There's so
Gabby Browne: many things in this culture that are about big picture scenarios [00:09:00] instead of helping the person right next to them. It's all these grandeur ideas versus actual implementation in helping other people. Wishful thinking. It's thoughts and prayers, babies. That's what it is. It's thoughts and prayers and discussion with no actual action.
Aaron Couser: One of the gentlemen at the table talks about Paul Allen, uh, handling the Fisher
Gabby Browne: account. Paul Allen and the Fisher account? Paul. Paul
Aaron Couser: Allen is between the gentleman group, the elite of the elite. Everyone is pretty jealous of because he has the Fisher account, which we assume is the gold standard account to be running.
Craig McDermott, one of the gentlemen, uses an anti Semitic slur about Paul Allen, and Bateman just does not like that. He's portraying that he is this, uh, moral being by stopping someone from saying something anti Semitic. It is quite the contrary when you see him in public. God, that's
Gabby Browne: like the [00:10:00] narcissism of it all.
Those little implements right there. At the beginning, he does really seem to know what he's doing in the sense of manipulating other people around him to think he's a good person. It seems like a Thoughtful action. He's very calculated. Yeah. So calculated at the beginning. So calculated.
Aaron Couser: He's putting his pieces where he wants them to be.
They go to this club,
get the host like 50 bucks to get into this pretty swanky club. That is one of their hunting grounds. As you said, Gabby, you see the 80s style music, dancing, the ladies with the
Jonathan VanSickle: guns, Charlie's
Gabby Browne: angels. Even if I'm saying hunting ground, even if they're not killers, like this type of man in this elitist form thinks that they can get any type of woman in that sense.
It's their hunting ground for not just murder, but for bad choices.
Jonathan VanSickle: Bad choices. We see it multiple times and I think Erin you had a great point. They just pull up to this club, there's a line of people waiting, you can hear the background dialogue. We've been here an [00:11:00] hour and a half, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And what do they do? They buy their way in. They buy access to these things that normal humans don't have. So when you have that kind of power with just your wallet, essentially, they feel untouchable. They think they can just. Buy whatever their heart desires. Of course
Gabby Browne: I'm better than everyone else. Do they not know who I am?
I walk up, I give money, I go in. I, these people behind me mean nothing.
Aaron Couser: Bateman has a couple drink tickets that he takes up to the bar. The female bartender lets him know that those are worthless. Those are expired. Cash only. He smiles at her, hands her the cash. She goes to make the change in the cocktails and he...
Tells her how he feels. Yeah, what does he, what does he say, Gabby? He calls her
Jonathan VanSickle: a fucking bitch. I'm gonna kill you and play with your
Gabby Browne: blood or something like that. Yeah, some weird shit. Some, once again, some weird shit. And that also, in that exact moment, shows the metaphor between the working person and the elite.
The first person to have power over Patrick Bateman in the [00:12:00] movie is He's a service industry worker who is also a woman. Correct. And his reaction's
Aaron Couser: not good. He wants to destroy that person, because how could you possibly deny anything that I do? But
Gabby Browne: he still smiles through it, while she's not looking.
Aaron Couser: He said it loud enough where I thought she would have heard it, but it's a loud club, so you think maybe it's just too loud and he
Jonathan VanSickle: said it.
That's what I thought too. We've all been in those clubs. You can't hear what someone's saying three feet away from you. I think maybe they boosted up the dialogue so the audience could hear it, but yeah, I think it's implied that she did
Aaron Couser: not. That's the first sign of like, this could be an ambiguous film.
Could you have to make a decision as an audience member, am I believing that she didn't hear that, or did he actually never say that?
Gabby Browne: Yeah, it's the, it's the choice of suspending a little bit of your disbelief to get inside of Patrick Bateman's delusional mind.
Aaron Couser: Shows his misogyny, his elitism, and possibly this is just in his dream.
That's really sets up the rest of the movie.
Gabby Browne: Ladies, if you walk into a man's apartment [00:13:00] and it looks like this, walk right out. Right now. Dude has a Les Mis poster above his bathroom. That's one of his only art pieces. He's a psychopath, 100%. Like, you get out of there, ladies. About those two
Jonathan VanSickle: pieces that were in his living room, too. Did you guys get to dissect anything from those?
Because they're really interesting. But I never, like, understood what it was like. A man in a suit, like, face down. And then, like, a giant woman. And they were both black and white. Big, I was just kind of like,
Aaron Couser: hmm. One looked like someone had an instrument. He loves music,
Jonathan VanSickle: right? They're giant. They're like floor to ceiling, like, black and white screen printy looking things.
They're great.
Aaron Couser: Looked like it changed, like, in the first half of the movie. It was like a guy in a suit. Robert
Gabby Browne: Longo's Men in the Cities. series. That's what it's called. Men in the cities. I feel like this is what someone who thinks that they're a person. Yes. I love music. I love dancing. Let's put this up.
This is art. I'm not crazy. Everything's fine. Lane is in my bathroom. [00:14:00] Absolutely.
Jonathan VanSickle: Another thing where it's like, I think this is normal. People with taste and people with money would have this. Therefore I am going to have this.
Aaron Couser: Later in the movie, they have tickets to Les Miserables musical. If you're going to see it, you have to be at home.
It's a status symbol. Yeah. It's like Hamilton.
Gabby Browne: Absolutely. But it's also about the French Revolution. Exactly. So it's like, oh yes, we are the elite going to see this musical about. Poor people trying to overpower people like us, but we, we support the poor, you know, we were good people. We're not like those people.
Aaron Couser: Right. So it shows that contrast there. Uh, it just immediately
Gabby Browne: hypocrite, hypocrite, but, uh, when I took a moral philosophy class when I was a freshman in college, loved it, loved it so much, but they talked about in existentialism, the true way that you. are allowed to judge someone is if they show signs of hypocrisy.
That's like the accepted way [00:15:00] to judge someone. Everyone judges people, you know? I like that for me as my own little rule is if you start showing a lot of hypocrisy, that's when I allow my brain to start judging you. Boy, was that judge and Patrick the entire time.
Girls. I love having a skincare routine. I love getting ready, you know, like really pampering yourself. And men, if you want to do that too, please don't do it like this. He's scaring me in this scene. He's just a little too crisp. I'm
Aaron Couser: all about Personal discipline, exercise. I mean, people know me. I take like four showers a day.
I like to be clean and manicured in in decent shape. So in a way, I kinda have respect for Patrick Bateman here. He's doing it in a way that is obviously in a psychotic style. This is where you hear his first voiceover. It's him talking to
Jonathan VanSickle: himself and what's the first thing that he introduces about [00:16:00] himself?
The first thing that this character tells the audience about himself.
Gabby Browne: Uh, where his apartment is. Where his apartment is. How much it costs. What floor he's on. I'm sure even in his own psychosis, this could be he's talking to the audience, creating a memoir in his head for all the people who will eventually know about him someday, truthfully.
That's always what I've kind of liked to think this as. Even if he's not explaining it to anyone, he's like just ambiguously being like, If I die right now, these are all the things that are about me and are important to me, and everyone will know these things. I can put an ice pack on my stomach and do a thousand crunches now.
Everyone needs to know that, apparently.
Aaron Couser: Maybe he puts on two masks, really, in that, in that scene. The ice mask, and then he puts on that face mask, which is a A famous scene from this movie where he's peeling it off. He basically
Jonathan VanSickle: says, There's an idea of Patrick Bateman. Some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me.
Aaron Couser: Only an entity. Something illusory. [00:17:00] And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable.
Jonathan VanSickle: I simply am not there.
Aaron Couser: He's not there anymore.
Gabby Browne: Ever,
Aaron Couser: probably. He feels like there's something in the midst, but his individualism has been just probably just crushed through time, through the discipline, and through the manipulation that he has to partake in to keep his status.
Jonathan VanSickle: Yeah. The idea of conformity. In order to rise to the top in this world is, uh, I'm not sure.
I can't speak to it myself. I'm not on wall street, but it paints such an interesting and disturbing picture of these elites in the world.
Aaron Couser: Well, now he's going to work. Yeah. And
Gabby Browne: he's walking on sunshine. He's not just going to work. He is happy and skipping about it. Let's just [00:18:00] pretend. Pretend to be normal.
Listen to normal people music. I'm walking on sunshine.
Aaron Couser: Anywhere he's going, he's, he's got those headphones on. So he's always listening to music. He loves music. You wouldn't think that someone who is psychotic, detached from human society can relate and love music.
Jonathan VanSickle: Since he can't really relate to these people on a everyday, real life.
the romanticism of music and some of these ideals he discusses, maybe that's his way he can connect to society. He sees that as his bridge to being human is, Oh, I connect with this music and the people around me do as well.
Gabby Browne: Or maybe even not a connection. Maybe it's just along the lines of if I memorize these things and know these things.
These are the things that, that will make me seem relatable. You know, like I'm just going to memorize all of this stuff about music and just have all of this in the bank for me to be able to talk about something other than being a stockbroker. You know, this is his one hobby, his one thing. Spencer wants to meet for drinks [00:19:00] at Flutie's Pier 17.
After six? Negative.
Jonathan VanSickle: Cancel it. And what should I say?
Aaron Couser: Just say no. We're introduced to Gene, his secretary, and she's going over his agenda for the day, his lunch dates, and asks to make a 12. 30 which must be like a pretty swanky restaurant. He gets flirty with her in this scene. So at first it's business, then he switches, you see like that switch in his personality, and he starts kind of flirting with her, and he says he will make the reservations.
He doesn't want her to do all that work. He also wants her to start dressing a little more seductively. Oh, he
Gabby Browne: just says don't wear that again. You're prettier than that. That's just such manipulative man talk, honestly. It's the reverse psychology. You're too pretty to be wearing clothes like that. It makes her think it's her own idea to start dressing
Jonathan VanSickle: differently.
He uses his secretary as His barrier between worlds, when he's in that office he is in his own thoughts, he's [00:20:00] protected from everything else, and then we see her constantly being a kind of go between between him and reality. She is that bridge to reality, she keeps him kind of in check, she kind of keeps him going on this normal track until he's completely off the rails.
But
Gabby Browne: so many businessmen's most important relationship is them and their life,
but they can't keep their life straight without them. This is the person that makes all the calls, does all the things. Most businessmen would be nowhere without their secretaries. This is his most important relationship in his
Jonathan VanSickle: life. And I think that also, too, it could not only be his misogynistic ideals, it's just the ideals of the corporate world, of the Wall Street industry.
I want a hot secretary. That is another status symbol that I want. I want you in a dress, in high heels, blah blah blah blah. I think we just see the materialistic, how shallow and superficial these people are. It's being constantly put on display over and over for us. Feathered Friends for
Gabby Browne: [00:21:00] 600. During courtship.
The male frigate
Aaron Couser: bird inflates to enormous size the red pouch found here. After she leaves, he just sits back and watches Jeopardy. It's not like he's doing really any work at all. Did anybody notice the Jeopardy question? What was it? What was it? What was it? I should have wrote it
Jonathan VanSickle: down. It's a question about this type of bird in Africa.
Has a very large red. Mating sack. It's just a show. It's a mating show. It's a ritual. It's a big red look at me I have power and status. Slipping in little tidbits like that That kind of just explains the culture and mentality around these businessmen in New York That's
Gabby Browne: what gets the ladies this this big red puffy chest thing.
So He's got his big puffy chest ready to go. Pat Bateman on the town. We cut to old Pat riding with our next lady. Lady. Lady of Pat. Miss [00:22:00] Blonde Reese Witherspoon. Get married. Have a wedding. Evelyn. He's trying to listen to his music. Sounds like
Aaron Couser: she's talking about wedding, possibly wedding plans. And he just wants to hear this new Robert Palmer track.
Jonathan VanSickle: Robert is simply irresistible. What
Aaron Couser: is wrong with her? She's annoying me while I'm trying to hear this new amazing musical track. But she says, let's go for it. And he's like, what are you talking about? Let's get married. I have too much work to do. I can't take off work. I cannot possibly, uh, change my schedule to get married.
Your dad
Gabby Browne: owns the company. You should be able to. And he, no, I can't. I want to fit in. I have to fit in. Old Pat wants to fit in. Does not care.
Jonathan VanSickle: I think it just shows the disconnect between these people and how Their relationship is more of, once again, just a status symbol. This is a famous CEO. This is a very well off, you know, she's clearly from some family with money.
She's going [00:23:00] to have Ann Leibovitz do their cinematography. She's going to have Godiva truffles all over the, like, I think this is just one of those things, again, where they They don't really have a connection. The connection that they have is through their friends and their social status. Later in the movie, we see the inverse, wherever Patrick is trying to talk to her about something very important, and she goes, Oh, what were you talking about?
Gabby Browne: Mm hmm. Yeah, like, Oh, no, Pat. It's, everything's fine. Yeah. You're being dramatic.
Aaron Couser: I'm on the verge of
Jonathan VanSickle: tears by
Aaron Couser: the time we arrive at a spot,
Jonathan VanSickle: since I'm positive we won't have a decent table.
Aaron Couser: Their destination, a restaurant, you hear the voiceover again and he's almost in tears because he just knows that they're going to get a bad table at this restaurant. Yeah. It cannot be seen. It is just driving him internally insane. With
Gabby Browne: this straight face, you could see the insane relief wash over him, and it's like, Jesus Christ.
The table's not that bad, everything's fine. [00:24:00]
Aaron Couser: You see sushi and delicious shrimp.
Gabby Browne: Timothy and Evelyn are having an affair. He very obviously knows that. Does he care? No. Because he's also having an affair.
Jonathan VanSickle: Yeah, I was about to say, at the same time, he talks about his buddy, and I'm sleeping with his fiancée.
The weenie
Gabby Browne: of the group. Louie, Louie?
Aaron Couser: Louie Carruthers, he considers to be like the weakest of the members of the group. He's
Jonathan VanSickle: got a strong business card though.
Gabby Browne: Lordy, that's about sent him
Jonathan VanSickle: spiraling. Her cousins are there who are artists. The goth looking?
Aaron Couser: Yes, yes. The goth, like the cure, Robert, the 80s plant
Jonathan VanSickle: looking.
Yeah. And they're talking about if Soho has become too commercial. Oh, I read that actually. It's like you're in Soho, dude. What do you mean you read that? Like these people don't have opinions. They don't really have that substance, they're just kind of there regurgitating these cliches and lines that they read in, you know, in the
Gabby Browne: times.
Yeah, none of them have their own opinion. The
Aaron Couser: lady that he's having an affair with, Courtney, he describes her as always [00:25:00] being on a psychiatric drug or a psychotic drug at all
Gabby Browne: times. Is it Valium?
Jonathan VanSickle: Isn't she on She's on all kinds of stuff through the movie, I can't even remember. I think he thinks
Aaron Couser: she's on Xanax.
Courtney is, is engaged, who she's having an affair with, with, with Louis. They kind of discuss problems of the world. They're all white knighting.
Jonathan VanSickle: We have to
Aaron Couser: encourage a return to traditional moral values. Eventually... Uh, Timothy Bryce just cackles during this speech from Bateman.
Jonathan VanSickle: I think that's a big thing with Bateman, is he says things in a certain way, and they have this notion of him that we don't know of, of course, by his past, but it seems like people don't really take him seriously that often.
Things he say don't maybe carry a lot of weight. I perceive that as, this person's a fraud in every way, shape, or form, so how could they ever tell when he was being sincere?
Aaron Couser: Later in the evening, at an
Gabby Browne: ATM, [00:26:00] Grab some ka chang. Walks
Aaron Couser: down the street, and it's insinuated that he's picking up this female. Walks right next to her, says hi, she says hello, and they just walk together. And you're assuming he's probably going to have sex with her and murder her. That scene either shows that that's what he's doing, or it's showing us that women have a hard time saying no to him, or they're just immediately attracted to him.
I think
Gabby Browne: it's more along the lines of he thinks he's irresistible. It's him being, and it's also the money too. It's also, he's walking with the ATM. She doesn't want him. She wants what he's got. She wants that money. She wouldn't want to be with him otherwise. That little smile insinuation, this is the first time that we're It's getting introduced to him taking home someone for money.
Jonathan VanSickle: Well, and even later in the film where a person maybe doesn't necessarily want to do it, they're coerced through money. I mean, I think greed and, um, capitalism is one of the themes that runs rampant and just how much [00:27:00] power those greenbacks have on people. We don't see a lot of people in the middle. We see a lot of very poor and a lot of very rich in the things they both do.
Gabby Browne: True elitism or the bare bottom. He's at the dry cleaners with some bloody sheets. That's Cranapple. That's Cranapple!
Aaron Couser: Uh, yeah, and, you know, he wouldn't be putting blood on that. He can only get these in Santa Fe. You know, these are very, very expensive sheets. They really are the best. Then
Jonathan VanSickle: why can't they get
Aaron Couser: these stains out?
I mean, can you talk to these people or something? Thinking about his past, monologues to his friends about world peace and treating everyone well. He's not treating these Asian lady very nicely
Gabby Browne: at all. No, no, this is a worker. That's their job. This is beneath them.
Aaron Couser: She's obviously having a tough time getting this blood out of this, this sheet.
He doesn't want bleach on these, but I don't know how else you're going to clean. Yeah,
Gabby Browne: exactly. Geez, McCree's. Yeah. And then another woman walks in. Is this like the
Jonathan VanSickle: walking, [00:28:00] talking embodiment that we get to see of? The women that he has in his life that are just kind of hanging on by a thread. Basically, he could say the word and they'll have a date.
They're waiting to get with him. They're trying to be with this man. And
Aaron Couser: it's kind of shocking to him because he lives in this huge city that he doesn't think he's going to like run back into these past relationships or past one night stands. He's shocked to see her, but he uses her in another way though.
He just gives her the sheets and tells her to deal with it. Explain this to this dry cleaning company on what I want, because I have to have these back by tonight. And she goes along with it because she's, I guess, just infatuated by his status. People's
Jonathan VanSickle: willingness to help him because they know this person has power, this person has status.
If I can get into their good graces, maybe I could have power. I could have status.
Gabby Browne: Oh, of course you gave the, the, the dry cleaning to... A girl, a woman, to try to communicate to the dry cleaners, like, it just seems like anything of simple tasks is [00:29:00] beneath him and that he has to, he has to have someone else deal with this.
Oh yeah. Cause he's way too important for that. Maybe we could do lunch
Aaron Couser: one day next week. When he's leaving, as he's walking out the door, he's smiling, but you catch that last second, you see his true character and he's like, he grimaces and he frowns and he looks at her like he wants to murder her too.
So even though she's like, facilitating something for him, he still thinks that she is just like, so beneath him and, you know, scum, really, of the Earth.
Jonathan VanSickle: The way he ends that conversation, you know, she's trying to set up a dinner date or something. Let's grab coffee. Oh, I'm too busy, too busy, too busy. And then Patrick himself offers up, how about next Saturday?
And she's like, Oh yeah, next Saturday's great. He's like, shit, you know, I'm busy. I'm sorry. That's just like another one of those glimpses into this person's calculated and. Disturbed mind. Right, because he
Aaron Couser: doesn't want to just totally say no, but he doesn't want to make any kind of arrangements. Exactly.
Because he's really not going to do that, you know, but he [00:30:00] wants to, it to be possible to be with me. Yeah, he,
Gabby Browne: it's, it's an appearance. It's like, yeah, um, maybe. Yeah, you'll, everyone gets. It's the little hint of, maybe you'll get Patrick baped in. Maybe. Ha ha ha. Calls Courtney, and she's watching porn at his place, just like very casually, and Courtney's like passing out on her bed on lithium.
We need to go to dinner, and he says, I'll take you anywhere, I'll take you anywhere. Dorsey is nice. Or
Jonathan VanSickle: something fabulous.
Gabby Browne: Patrick's like, okay, I'm gonna get us into Dorsey. He calls
Jonathan VanSickle: the host. Can I get a reservation for tonight at 8
Gabby Browne: cackling, cackling. He takes Courtney out on the town. so high, she has no idea where she is right now.
And I
Jonathan VanSickle: love that part of it. You can tell as they're writing, they're having a conversation. She is like fading fast and he's like, Hey, how about we get you some caffeine? And I can't remember the other drug to kind of perk you up a little bit. Let's balance this [00:31:00] high. I think it was a lithium. Yeah, caffeine and lithium.
So as she kind of passes out in a limo, she comes back to being sat at the restaurant and she goes, Oh, are we at Dorcia? This is one of my favorite comedic moments. He lifts up the menu and it's clearly not Dorsia. It's another restaurant. I can't remember. He's like, yep, this is Dorsia. And then
Gabby Browne: starts telling her what she'll be having.
The New York, whatever. The New York Times said it was a smash, something like that. It was a playful dish. Yeah. It's his descriptions in this movie. That's what makes him seem quote unquote human and not just a lizard man. He thinks. that if he describes everything so exactly, so perfectly, this is his quirky characteristic.
He's not just being a true
Aaron Couser: sociopath. Almost reminds me of the waiter from the very first scene in a way, because the waiters are just so perfect on how they describe all the entrees. And he's kind of doing the same thing with the music. This menu. Well,
Jonathan VanSickle: and as you guys can relate to, what is it when you go to a table?
You're in the [00:32:00] kitchen, you're talking to us, but what happens when you go to the table? Some flip gets switched and it's a bit of a show. Oh yeah,
Gabby Browne: I'm an
Jonathan VanSickle: actor. Exactly, so I think we can see this is the way Patrick treats his whole life. He's a show, a big play, a big display of me. A big
Gabby Browne: display of me, but a big dis play of pretending to be a human to just I am totally faking it to make it an actor through and through an actor that loves Huey Lewis and the news and then to the pottery barn where I got this little silver muffin dish all of the women in his life are disposable but Courtney is the most disposable
Jonathan VanSickle: but why is he drawn back to her so many times then why does he keep her so close Gabby This is
Gabby Browne: the woman that he can get away with all of his lies in front of.
She can't see what he's doing are his real true intentions, you know? This is his, like, [00:33:00] truly most controlled woman in his life just because. of drug addiction. That's very hard for her. I feel terrible for Courtney. She thinks she's having a really good time.
Aaron Couser: She probably mentally can't handle being in this elite.
She probably has a lot of morals, but she has to take the drugs to numb, numb that. So she can actually exist, even though it's really not existing. I think with
Jonathan VanSickle: Courtney, what we see with her drug use is, um, that's kind of her escapism. From the situation. And I think that's another, you know, that's something else we're going to touch on with a lot of these different characters is what they do to cope with the lives they're living.
Escaping. That's
Gabby Browne: a wonderful
Aaron Couser: suit. Don't tell me, don't tell me. Let me guess.
Jonathan VanSickle: Mmm, Valentino
Aaron Couser: Couture. All the PNP, what is it, Pierce and Pierce employees are getting ready to gather for this, this board meeting. Lewis thanks Patrick for taking Courtney out on the town. He's happy to hear [00:34:00] him mention Dorsia, but he just hates Lewis.
He hates Lewis. And Lewis, you know, is complimenting his suit and slaps his hand away, you know. He goes, the compliment was good enough. So he obviously thinks that Lewis is, you know, just weak. He's one of the weak ones and has no respect for him. And he doesn't want to be like Lewis by any means. And he doesn't pretend to like him.
No, he doesn't. At all. Like he, he would, he'll pretend around the other elite gentleman. He doesn't care about Lewis.
Gabby Browne: He's a weenie, but I feel bad
Aaron Couser: for him. But... But the man shows up. Paul Allen,
Gabby Browne: Jesus
Aaron Couser: tits. When he shows up, the room knows. Wow, Paul Allen, he's got the uh, Fisher account. The Fisher account.
Fisher account. And he goes up to Patrick Bateman, but he calls him another name.
Gabby Browne: Marcus Halberstrom.
Aaron Couser: Miss recognizes Patrick for a gentleman who looks exactly
Jonathan VanSickle: like him. Well, it's understandable. I mean, they wear the same suits. They have the same glasses. They go to the same barber. But as Patrick tells us, he has a better [00:35:00] haircut.
Yeah,
Gabby Browne: yeah, of course. Of course. And his dad practically owns the company. So that's the part where it's like, you probably should have remembered that one. But he just is so far above and beyond Patrick that he doesn't even have to care. He doesn't need to know who this guy is. Even though they're all listed as vice president, you know, everyone should be on the same level, but they're not because Paul has the Fisher
Aaron Couser: account.
And just the fact that he's talking to him, he doesn't even correct him. He goes along with this for the entire movie. Takes that persona of what, um, what Marcus would be and actually has a dual identity throughout the rest of the movie. One is Patrick and then one is Marcus.
Gabby Browne: And it just shows that a replaceability of all of these characters We literally could flip flop them out for any of the other businessmen and they're at the exact same Am I Patrick Bateman?
Am I Marcus Halberstrom? I'm both actually. Exactly. I can wear both
Jonathan VanSickle: hats. Yeah, the homogenization That's that's happening in [00:36:00] this office in this in this field right now at this point. It's yeah, they might as well be The same exact person.
Gabby Browne: Homogenization, I liked that. That was a good word.
Aaron Couser: Is that a gram?
Jonathan VanSickle: New card. What do you think?
Aaron Couser: Paul Allen gives his card to this gentleman, Timothy Bryce, and tells everybody he has dinner reservations at Dorsia that Friday night. Everyone is just like, cannot believe that. He separates himself from everyone else in the room. He's the one that's going to Dorsia. None of these other guys are.
Gabby Browne: Especially because Louis is the one that told everyone in the room that he went to Dorsia. Like, he wanted to be the one to tell it, not Louis, you know?
Aaron Couser: As Paul leaves and the rest of the gentlemen are sitting at the table, the famous trading of the business card scene happens. Patrick shows off his first, Bonecolor, Sicilian Rail.
You know, these are high end cards. Everyone's pretty impressed. Van Patten brings out his card. Which is just a little better. [00:37:00] Eggshell with Romalian type. They don't want to be seen upset that someone else has a better card than them. It's just such great acting, like with, especially with Christian.
Internally, you see him dying because his card is not the best card of the group. I can't believe that Bryce prefers Van
Jonathan VanSickle: Patten's card to mine.
Gabby Browne: This is like a fake teamwork environment, you know, and it's also just so funny. This scene is so fricking funny. Like how every single person's identity is directly tied to the font on their goddamn business card.
This is your self worth. This is what will topple your masculinity. The embossment on someone else's card.
Jonathan VanSickle: Or the shade of off
Gabby Browne: white, Jesus Christ,
Aaron Couser: man. Just the texture
Gabby Browne: of it. Oh my god, yes. The thickness of the card. It's just, I can't handle it. I can't handle it. The straight face explaining how his [00:38:00] world is crumbling around him because of a frickin business card.
Well,
Jonathan VanSickle: and to top it off... He asks, let's see Paul Valens card, Paul's card, Paul's card gonna look like, and he whips it out, and it is a powerful business card, watermark included, this is the top of the line. Creme de la creme, Bugatti of business cards here. Bugatti. Tasteful
Aaron Couser: thickness.
Gabby Browne: See, this is the type of elite world I never want to have to be a part of. If I have to look at a piece of paper and talk about how elite, you know, this person's piece of paper is compared to my piece of paper, screw you guys, no, I'm not doing that. You
Aaron Couser: see Patrick, like, holding the card, and he just has to, he just has to drop it.
And, and the facade really is broken, because he just seems so defeated. Yeah,
Gabby Browne: you can literally see his heart breaking, if he had a heart, you know.
Aaron Couser: His mask cracked a little bit, showing, showing [00:39:00] his true self. You got a negative attitude. That's what's stopping you. You gotta get your act together. I'll help
Jonathan VanSickle: you.
Patrick's walking home, and he's kind of going through this dingy alley. He comes across a homeless man. He immediately begins to try to connect with this man. I'm talking to him about his life, pulling out his wallet to give him some money. But then he, he can't help himself. He's like, but why are you homeless?
Why don't you have a job? Is it the booze? Why don't you just go get a job and fix your life? The way he speaks to him, he is so disconnected. Not only disconnected, but critical of people who are less fortunate than him.
Gabby Browne: Truly, he's looking at his work ethic and where he's at at life. And this is the type of privilege that a lot of people in that upper class can't see, is they didn't get themselves there whatsoever.
It was their family name, their family money, but there's a lot of people that think that they worked hard to get there. When in actuality, that is the very [00:40:00] low percent of people that are like, poverty stricken that become wealthy in the end. A lot of money is... It's tied to money and that's how it
Aaron Couser: works.
For that gentleman to, to get to where Patrick is would be an astronomical feat. Exactly.
Gabby Browne: Life circumstances are so different for everyone, every single person on earth. The more money you have in this movie, the less human you are. The most humanized people are the sex workers and the
Aaron Couser: homeless folk. Just a few scenes ago.
Patrick's talking about fixing all the world's problems. Homeless, giving to charity, but the only way he really seems the way it should be resolved is just by murdering this
Gabby Browne: person. Eradication, apparently. Jesus. Well, and I think that's
Jonathan VanSickle: kind of shown throughout the scene. He starts off asking this man, Let's get you on your feet, man.
Let's help you get better. What can we do to keep changing this? And as he keeps talking, he changes from his wallet to his briefcase. Man, I mean, you smell like shit. He starts to see the disgusting ugliness. [00:41:00] of this man's life and I think in that moment he kind of makes the decision and he says, you know what?
This isn't worth it. And he stabs him. He kills him. Yep. And kills his dog.
Aaron Couser: Oh no. Oh god. That, that's when I like lost any kind of empathy I think. I think that's when you. You're, you're forced to lose any empathy.
Jonathan VanSickle: I was about to say, I think that's kind of when you're supposed to because it was bad enough that he couldn't have that kind of connection with this man and even just let, just walk by and let him leave his own life.
He was compelled to kill him and to put that icing on the cake. You kill the dog. And what do we all know about movies nowadays? You kill a dog. Kitten or you kill a dog, you're gonna have, you're gonna have a four movie series going about, you know, Keanu going on a rampage. I mean, there's nothing that'll get an audience more angry than animal cruelty.
Yeah,
Gabby Browne: that's true. Anytime Patrick loses an ounce of power, he has to gain it back in some other way. He has to immediately go and... Increase his power dynamic over people who are [00:42:00] lesser than him. Exactly. Or what he thinks are lesser than
Aaron Couser: him. Exactly. Because what just happened before is Paul Allen's card embarrassed him.
Yeah. Because his card wasn't good enough. So he has to go take it out on I gotta feel
Gabby Browne: better right now! Mm. Murder. Ha Is he getting a facial? What beautiful skin you have, Mr.
Aaron Couser: Bateman. He talks about his mask of his sanity is starting to
Jonathan VanSickle: slip. He can't control the bloodlust anymore. He's starting to lose it.
Aaron Couser: He's verbally saying to the audience, it's going to get worse. Yeah,
Gabby Browne: his monologue is just like, I, he, he's starting to feel, feel it himself that they're, everything is starting to fall. Boy cannot relax in the most relaxing environment. Like just focus on your massage. and maybe you'll be alright.
Jonathan VanSickle: Hey Hamilton, have
Aaron Couser: a holly jolly Christmas.
Is Alan
Jonathan VanSickle: still handling the Fisher account?
Gabby Browne: Christmas time in the city and Patrick Bateman [00:43:00] is blood hungry. Well
Aaron Couser: even psychotics psychopaths have to celebrate the holidays. Hey, Greg, happy holidays to you. Uh, where's Paul
Gabby Browne: Allen? Mm hmm. Yeah, he's trying to find Paul. And Paul is talking to Courtney. And he's like, Ah, don't like that.
Don't like that. Immediately goes over to start chatting again with Paul. And Reese Witherspoon comes in with a baby pig. I was so confused during this part. Where'd she get the
Aaron Couser: pig? You know, how you see characters of rich people, they kind of look like, kind of like, like, little pigs. Yeah, they're little pigs.
Always consuming,
Jonathan VanSickle: eating something. Exactly, yeah. I was about to say, it's, it's a lust for consumerism and greed. That's what I think pigs represent in traditional cinema. Evelyn
Aaron Couser: and Patrick, they are not aligned at all. No, God. They're squabbling. She says she's barely seen him. He says he's been here, there the entire time.
Obviously they don't, they just don't care about each other. One. It's also
Jonathan VanSickle: another beautiful metaphor for who is this person? What is this person? Once again, they're saying you're not even there. Yeah. While you could physically be there,
Gabby Browne: you're not. You're [00:44:00] not. You're not in the headspace. You're not present in the moment.
This is
Aaron Couser: where Patrick wants to have dinner with Paul Allen. Yeah,
Gabby Browne: Paul says, yeah, let's get, yeah, Marcus, let's get some dinner sometime. And, and, and Evelyn's like, why is he calling you Marcus?
Aaron Couser: Evelyn's hearing this and is wondering why aren't you correcting Paul Allen to call you Patrick? He immediately changes the subject on it.
He doesn't. Want to discuss why, why Paul Allen is calling him Marcus. Yeah, I'm
Gabby Browne: sure he's conniving some things up there. It's like a social thing, a social norm of being like too embarrassed to correct someone else. Could be a power play on Paul's part too, like, I, I, I don't even care about you enough to know your name.
They're power struggling throughout this entire
Jonathan VanSickle: point. Well, and I think in that moment, maybe Patrick actually sees an opportunity, sees a little shimmer of light, and he says, You know what? How could I use this to my advantage? Mm hmm, so.
Aaron Couser: Yeah, yeah, because he feels like maybe if he does correct him, then any kind of opportunity with Paul will be shut down too.
Yeah. They make these arrangements.[00:45:00]
Would you
Jonathan VanSickle: like to hear the specials? Not if you want to keep your spleen.
Gabby Browne: This is the point where Patrick is deciding, like, I need to do something. I need to figure something out with the Paul Allen problem. So I do think it is strategic that he makes dinner reservations at a restaurant that is empty, basically.
Where there's an older, blonde woman, and he's like, oh my god, is that Ivanka Trump? And it's like, duh, no it's not. There's like literally three other tables in this restaurant. And Paul's of course like, We should have gone to Dorsey. I could have gotten us in and Patrick's like, no, this is, we're here, we're, we're here for a reason.
it's, it's all strategic, less witnesses. He's making very, very choice decisions in this moment.
Aaron Couser: He's already made the
Gabby Browne: decision to murder. Everything is set up to go. The plan has been made as soon as he made the dinner reservations that Paul Allen was going to die that night, boy had the raincoat hanging up in the kitchen.
He was ready to go.
Aaron Couser: Patrick [00:46:00] asks Alan at dinner about the Fisher account. He thought Rothschild was, was handling it. Interesting name,
Jonathan VanSickle: American money name. How'd you
Aaron Couser: get it? Well, I could tell you that Halberstram, but they don't have to kill you. Paul talks about Evelyn Williams, who is actually Patrick Bateman's fiancée.
Yeah. Says that she's got a nice butt, but doesn't understand why she would be with That loser. That loser, Patrick Bateman. And it has to be, like, soul crushing for Patrick to hear this. This is how Paul Allen really feels about all the work, all the discipline. Exercising, showering, sculpting my body. This idol thinks I'm a loser and it has to be mentally destroying for him.
You
Jonathan VanSickle: can see the act that he's putting on but at the same time the just disgust and just like I'm gonna fucking put an
Gabby Browne: axe to your head here in a few hours. He doesn't even know what's about to happen. Just
Jonathan VanSickle: the smallest of looks and just the way he uses your expressions, the way he does it in this movie is [00:47:00] incredible.
Aaron Couser: You like Huey Lewis in the news? They're okay. Now
Gabby Browne: we're back at the apartment.
Jonathan VanSickle: Paul Allen's,
Aaron Couser: he's enjoying
Gabby Browne: himself. Boy is sauced. Boy is sauced. And um, throughout this part, we have Mr. Patrick Bateman showing off his CD collection. I feel like he will with some of those. He's dancing around a little bit, running into the kitchen, getting some goodies out.
A little clear raincoat, he opens up a prescription bottle that just says New York Pharmacy with nothing about what the prescription is, so just an undetermined psychotic. When he pulls out the axe, it's the most pristine axe you could purchase, it's, he can't just kill Paul Allen with any old, you know, hatchet from the shed.
Hey, Haberstrom is drunk. Yes, Alan. Why are there copies of the style section all over your place? Do you have a [00:48:00] dog? Do you have a little chow or something? That's, that part is also so funny. See, that's the other thing too, a
Jonathan VanSickle: chow. It's not like just some kind of puppy. It's like a designer. A chow? His
Aaron Couser: dancing around and his maneuvers, I mean, you see how excited he is to get ready to do a
Gabby Browne: murder.
Truly, the most animated he's been all movie. This is his go time.
Aaron Couser: He's definitely planned it. He's put that newspaper on the floor. You know, he had to have done that before they went out to
Gabby Browne: dinner. Is that a raincoat? Yes, it is. At least he's being slightly observant. But not observant enough to notice that Mr.
Patrick's behind him with the big ol axe, so.
Jonathan VanSickle: He talks about commercialism and identity with Huey Lewis. Like it's big enough that he's doing the song and he's about to kill someone, but then he like has these huge defining things that he's actually saying about himself. The whole album has a clear,
Gabby Browne: crisp sound, and a new sheen
Jonathan VanSickle: of consummate
Aaron Couser: professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost.
Gabby Browne: [00:49:00] He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey is a far more bitter, cynical sense of humor. Yeah, you are a far more bitter,
Jonathan VanSickle: cynical I Bigman, it's perfect. I love that. Holy shit. That's, that's just good writing right there. Yeah. This is basically inner monologue for himself. He's discussing how he feels and why he connects to this music.
With that axe in his hand and a raincoat, like you guys said, you can see it. He's just brimming with energy and excitement in that moment. This
Gabby Browne: is the most Patrick Patrick can be. And he's in a safe space. His apartment. Um, here he goes with the ol smash, smash, smash. Hey, Paul! Rawr! And he screams and he's smashin blood spatter all over his face and he's like, so overwhelmed.
He immediately, like, rips off the raincoat and he's just like, deep breathing. Like, you can tell that man, he completed some sort of satisfication within himself in that moment. It was pretty scary to watch as, uh, you know. As an, as [00:50:00] an audience member, Jesus Christian Bale, hopefully you've been, you've been doing good before this because that looked like some acting acting, you know?
That scene is one of my favorite scenes. It's so interesting to discuss and like, go through beat by beat. It's like, funny and
Aaron Couser: scary. He improvised a lot of like, the dancing and, and the physical movements in, in
Gabby Browne: that scene. Yeah, that's, that's, that's what happens when you have an actor and director that trust each other.
And that's, I think that's why this movie is so frickin good the way it is. She saw him from the very beginning and he was the one that she wanted and, and she knew his potential and trusted his potential and, uh, God, what would this movie be if we did not have Christian? Oh God! Funny now! Oh,
Jonathan VanSickle: do
Aaron Couser: you have a Kleenex?
Gabby Browne: Yeah, I will get you that. his [00:51:00] entire performance on one Tom Cruise interview where he freaked out and it was so
Aaron Couser: psychopathic. Action and energy with what he was saying, but you looked at his eyes and they were like hollow. Yeah, there's
Gabby Browne: nothing behind those eyes. It was like a dead man on the inside. Yeah, it was like a ghost.
Ha ha ha. I didn't know that. Literally Christian Bale watched that and was like, this is how I'm going to behave as a murderer. He's such then Tom Cruise is such a freaking intense person. Yes, I love it. That it's like, oh my god, hey, who am I gonna pick? Christian Bale. God, I can't even imagine. Leonardo DiCaprio, maybe he would have won an Oscar earlier, but I mean, geez, McCree is, I could not imagine that baby face being this type of killer.
A lot of people
Jonathan VanSickle: probably couldn't imagine Christian Bale being this type of killer in this. I mean, it was just a beautiful combination of, like you said, a director and an actor having full faith and trust in each other and going to some really uncomfortable places in the process. And it comes out on screen beautifully.
[00:52:00] Absolutely.
Gabby Browne: Just what a, what a murder scene. What a murder scene. It's the
Jonathan VanSickle: dance that gets me every time.
Gabby Browne: And guys, you know, I, this crazy psychopath Christian Bale, what are we going to do with him? He's
Aaron Couser: got a lot of
Gabby Browne: cleaning up to do. He's got a lot of cleaning up to do. I don't know. You'll have to tune in next week. Spot. All of our resources will be found in the show notes or on the website. Please check them out if you have any questions.