Donnie Darko Part 2

Part 2! Part 2! If you have not listened to Part 1, don't start here.

What is it to be lost in a dream? To constantly question the reality around you. Everyone else already knows there’s something wrong, that you’re different. Who are you to trust when you can’t even trust yourself? Don’t worry. Trust your friend, your only friend. Trust Frank. He won’t make you do anything you don’t really want to. 

Transcript

Donnie Darko Part 2

Gabby Browne: [00:00:00] This podcast is an association with Spotlight Studios, a family of podcasts driven to create unique, one of a kind content. If you have any interest in learning more, please visit spotlightstudiospodcast. com. The film itself, it's a real treasure trove for like, people who love to find a film where they can untangle the plot and find hidden meanings and there's, there's websites dedicated to saying what, what is Johnny Deco really about?

Um, so for you, I mean, what is... What is Donnie Darko about? When you are always a dark and stormy person, when you find a little bit of comfort in not being alone, that's where, that's where life starts getting good. 

Jonathan VanSickle: It's just like 

Gabby Browne: this ridiculous, fantastic, completely absurd mixture of humor, sadness, comedy, and madness, rolled up in this ball of this like 

Jonathan VanSickle: crazy story journey.

This is teen angst, punk rock, back to the future. Well, the first 

Gabby Browne: time I, I read the script, I was like, I can't even imagine what [00:01:00] sort of director is going to be able to attack this material. And when I found out that the writer was going to, I was so excited. So for you, I mean, what is, what is Donnie Darko about?

Three, two, one. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Life. It's about the 

Gabby Browne: complexity of life. A boy becoming a man, a man confronting himself. It's not 

Jonathan VanSickle: about any one thing.

Gabby Browne: Welcome back to part two of dark and spooky month. If you are just turning in now and have no idea who our sweet boy, Donald Darko is, or why he is a superhero, go back to part one and listen to that Kayla first, if you are here for 12 days remaining.

Aaron Couser: [00:02:00] We got this crazy kid seeing visions of Frank getting powers, 

Jonathan VanSickle: Explainable phenomenons happening all over town, almost as if the very existence of this place is kind of shattering and rules are just being thrown out the window, axes and bronze statues, jet engines falling from the sky unexplainably, I mean it's, it's crazy.

Aaron Couser: A 101 year old Roberto Sparrow writing time travel books, trying to leaf through the pages to understand them. 

Gabby Browne: Not only that, but every night. Being visited by a six foot bunny rabbit named Frank, there's a lot happening in this young man's life right now. And not only that, but the giant spear from his chest led him to a gun this last episode, and that is where we left off.

Now

And now the moment we've all been waiting for is here. It is my very distinct pleasure to introduce to you, [00:03:00] 

Aaron Couser: Sparkle Motion.

Gabby Browne: We're on a date. Yeah, we're all hiking. We're talking about this physics project again, but Donnie's not too interested in Gretchen's physics project. Like she's talking about how she wants to see the world when it's most beautiful. She wants to experience. things at their most perfect moment, honestly. Uh, she's experienced so many hardships in her life.

She really wants to experience the good. And Donnie's like, we've been going for two weeks now. Can we, uh, you know, uh, get this moving a little bit more? And he starts to try to kiss her. And she's like, I want to wait a minute, dude, until the world is a little bit Then he interrupts her to be like, till the world is a little bit more beautiful right now, there's a fat guy staring at us , and they look at their pan up and there's just like this guy in this tracksuit just smoking a cigarette, literally staring at 

Jonathan VanSickle: them.

Well, do you recognize that fat guy in the red suit who, because he shows up again later. Yeah, 

Gabby Browne: he shows he is on Halloween night. He's there. He's [00:04:00] actually, 

Jonathan VanSickle: he a prophet bro. He's f a a agents. 

Gabby Browne: I didn't know that. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Conspiracy. Do do do 

Gabby Browne: do do do do do do. They're watching Donnie, making sure he doesn't talk about the plane.

Jonathan VanSickle: It really is a beautiful insight into the life that Gretchen has lived up until this point. And her mentality going forward. This whole experiment she wants to do is to put glasses on toddlers so they can see beautiful images. Falsely imprint these memories. And so it tells a lot about her psychology as a person and some of the traumatic things that she's been through and what she is willing to do to try to put them behind her.

Gabby Browne: Yep, it's a hard, it's a hard knock life for women. Yeah, I'm sorry. Thank you, Harry. Let me just lay out what I believe is happening here. 

Aaron Couser: A little meeting with Dr. Thurman. 

Gabby Browne: Yep. Old. Old Eddie's coming in for the first time. Oh my God. Our therapist is a woman too. He's [00:05:00] probably thinking that as well. It's the eighties.

You know, Dr. Thurman, a doctor and a woman. He was anticipating his, his male. to be a man. I guarantee that. All doctors during this time were men. He probably got in there and was like a lady doctor. Okay. 

Jonathan VanSickle: They want to know the 

Aaron Couser: prognosis here. What is wrong with our crazy son? Well, 

Gabby Browne: Donnie's aggressive behavior has increased detachment from his reality.

Aaron Couser: He's struggling because of his inability to cope with the forces in the world he perceives to be threatening. He has 

Gabby Browne: no way of coping. That's what 

Aaron Couser: her diagnosis is. He doesn't know how to emotionally handle everything that's going wrong that he perceives to be threatening around him, which is probably just about everything.

And then 

Gabby Browne: that's why he always lashes out, whether it's the logic of his friends not having the sm having like a jokey conversation about the Smurfs. He doesn't have that major trait of being able to recognize when people are joking about a situation, and [00:06:00] literally every wrong characteristic is perceived as a threat.

For him, 

Aaron Couser: it seems like maybe every moment matters. Everything is important. There's no small talk with him. Like, you know, he has to get to the bottom of every issue that is happening and eventually just can't handle it. She wants to do more hypnotherapy and increase his medication, which really breaks Rose's heart.

When she hears that, she probably would rather him not be on medication and be his natural 

Gabby Browne: self. Especially when it's so hard for her to even get him to take the medication that he's taking right now. Or that it's not a consistent thing. Because the most important part of taking any type of antipsychotics is consistency.

Every time you stop it, you have to restart and get back on a cycle. It's extremely hard, any type of like, antipsychotic. Whether it's bipolar disorders, schizophrenia. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Well, and this, this really brings up the problem with one of those director's cut scenes wherever she says that this is a placebo. Because then that insinuates a whole different [00:07:00] cycle of the reason we want to keep Donnie on his medication is because we want to keep him consistent.

Keep him under control. We need to keep him on our regiment. We need to keep him within the lines because the medicine actually isn't medicine. It's just a means of. Control. A mental control. Exactly. Yeah. He is on the program, you know, he is on schedule. 

Gabby Browne: Donnie seems more autistic than he does schizophrenic in my sense of sensibility of it all, or just what I'm seeing from this film.

I'm not any type of psychology major in any sense. I listen to a lot of psychology. 

Jonathan VanSickle: stuff. The big schizophrenic thing, and the only reason I know this is because my uncle is bipolar schizophrenic, but is the, the doomsday, the whole doomsday thing and the getting to the bottom of things, that investigative nature to be like, Oh my God, I got to know the truth.

I got to know what's really happening. That 

Gabby Browne: paranoia. Everyone is against it. And like paranoid schizophrenic isn't like a technical term anymore, but paranoia and schizophrenia hold each other's hands every day. So, you know, yeah, totally. So if you think that. More medication will do that, then I think we should, uh, [00:08:00] give it 

Aaron Couser: a try.

Bathroom time. Brought himself a little knife to try to cut down that 

Gabby Browne: barrier. Yeah, he wants, well he wants to see what, what is this made of? This is sharp and pokey and this is probably gonna be the way that I get through there. I don't know where the axe, the axe is gone now. The axe was in the bronze statue.

I'm running low on weapons. We go to the kitchen, we get that butcher knife, baby. The butcher 

Aaron Couser: knife, it's metal, you know, and it seems like it's doing some penetrating. It's making some progress into that barrier. 

Gabby Browne: It breaks through at least to Frank's right eye. That's the only point of, of contact that it makes is, and, and the bright light pierces through.

On Frank's right eye. He 

Aaron Couser: smiles. He realized something. 

Jonathan VanSickle: That's exactly right. Yeah. I think this is not only physically showing us Donnie kind of breaking through, maybe mentally kind of breaking through to this idea that he [00:09:00] does have some power. He does have some control. He does have some ability to interact within this realm.

Gabby Browne: And this is why your parents are at the therapist's office right now. You brought a knife into the bathroom. And you're trying to stab the mirror, Donald. You locked the door this time so old Samantha couldn't say, Who are you talking to and why is there a knife in the bathroom? 

Aaron Couser: Don't eat dork.

Gabby Browne: There's always been a little, uh, uh, between these teachers. A little bit of a f f I think anyway. Well, you see him at the end. No, I know at the end, but also even before that, there has been sexual tension before then. I think that personally there has been sexual tension between everyone and Drew Barrymore in this movie because she is an icon, but, um, don't roll your eyes at me.

I saw you, bitch. She and this teacher have had their own little relationship throughout the entire [00:10:00] time, also being on the truth seeker's side as well. So they're in the teacher's lounge. They've been discussing things. Donnie Darko, you know? What's he 

Jonathan VanSickle: about? They seem like they 

Aaron Couser: know that he is special. He goes to them privately and discusses things that all the students don't.

Talk about maybe they know like, wow, this guy's really on to something or something quite different that we might talk about in the theories. Yeah, 

Gabby Browne: I also think truly too that like even in the grand scheme of teacher Student relationship and like just not even having like a time travel theory teacher seeking out a student that is smart and Asking questions and seeking out knowledge and just being like we both have this kid in our class.

We both see him struggling in certain ways but also want to lift him up. The biggest Donnie Darko fan club that he'll probably ever have. There are only a certain amount of people in this movie that see Donnie as a hero and these are [00:11:00] a couple people that see his true potential of 

Jonathan VanSickle: I come from a large family of a lot of people in the education industry and they'll, a lot of them will tell you, you know, if you have a class at 25, a lot of times it's not about the other 24 who are there every day, like ready to learn and willing and just there participating.

It's about that one kid that has that struggle and like really trying to help lift that person up and. Change someone's life like 

Gabby Browne: that. That's literally why, yeah, that's why they do it, man. Or that's why I like to think a lot of teachers do it. My favorite teachers have truly changed my life, so. It's a good thing to think about in that sense.

Aaron Couser: Now, 

Gabby Browne: I'm gonna tell you a little story today. It's fear. It's love. Good morning

here. We're here for Jim Cunningham. He's coercing these kids into believing that life is the simplicity of two emotional spectrums, fear and love. And he has a friend who has been searching for love in all the wrong places. His name is Frank. And Donnie's like, [00:12:00] Can't I just go to something and not be tortured by my own thoughts for one moment, please?

But no, Donnie, cause the entire movie is centered around you. Kids start asking questions to Jim Cunningham about answers for fear and love. I'm not gonna talk about the questions. What I'm gonna talk about is how we literally got Disney Channel and Nickelodeon all up in here. First person who asks a question, Ashley Tisdale.

Hey there High School Musicals, Suite Life of Zack and Cody, I bow down to my queen. Next up, Jerry Trainor, Drake and Josh. We got iCarly. Truly the first time I watched this movie, I did not even. Listen to any of their questions because I was so like starstruck but from seeing all of these young Actors in this first role this breakout role for all of them because they're so young I was just honestly so shocked for this being a movie that they didn't think was gonna work out.

They got a lot A freaking talent. 

Jonathan VanSickle: [00:13:00] Casting, casting was on point. 

Gabby Browne: Absolutely.

Aaron Couser: Good morning. 

Jonathan VanSickle: As he gathers these kids up on stage, Donnie has a question for him. Um, how 

Gabby Browne: much did they pay me to be here? 

Jonathan VanSickle: Truth seeker. That 

Aaron Couser: immediately kind of jarred Cunningham a little bit. You know, he was not expecting that kind of question. He wants more of a generic 

Gabby Browne: question. This seems like an anger prisoner.

Guys, this kid is speaking through fear. currently. What's your name, son? Gerald? Well, Gerald, I think you are very afraid. The 

Aaron Couser: parents, they are listening to what Jim's saying. He's saying the phrases that they've read in his book. The kids are kind of getting kind of on Donnie's side. Absolutely. 

Gabby Browne: They're like, this is 

Jonathan VanSickle: bullshit.

Well, and Donnie tells him, he admits, he says, I am afraid. I am afraid. I am. I am a lost soul. I am tormented by my life. But, uh, the real problem is he believes that [00:14:00] this man is the antichrist. 

Gabby Browne: And Donnie also gives other answers to the other kids that are like a lot more practical, a lot more here, right here, right now, you want to go lift weights?

Take karate, and the next time that guy beats you up, you can kick him in the balls, you know? He's giving, right now, actual answers instead of just like You, get off 

Jonathan VanSickle: your couch, stop eating potato chips, go out for field 

Gabby Browne: hockey. Seriously, no one wants to do know what they do when they grow up. We're fucking kids, man.

I'm telling you this, man. You're the fucking antichrist. Everyone, all the kids,

Aaron Couser: whoo! That was the last straw though, they had to get 

Gabby Browne: Donny out of there. Yeah, he's, he's escorted out, and he's, everyone's cheering for him. Like, he's, he is a hero, honest to God, you know? And what a school assembly, man. Like, God, I, I would, I would have loved to be sitting in that room right there. That would have been talked about for months after.

Amazing. Amazing to witness. And as Gretchen, as the girlfriend, I would be like, [00:15:00] yeah, that's me now.

Aaron Couser: He's in 

Jonathan VanSickle: the zone. He's in the zone. Yeah. 

Gabby Browne: He's heating up. He is H A W T, HOT. Boy is angry, man. He is like on fire pacing around. It's like one of those incomprehensible angers. Words are spewing out a mile a minute and I just cannot get rid of this. Fire that is inside of me. And Gretchen is like, You have to calm down.

Come here, sit, take a breath. She is the most calm that he can have. An energetic, constantly in his head person. This is the first person that he listens to outside of himself emotionally. This is the person that he respects emotionally and he will try his hardest to do what can help the situation around her.

This is the only person who has come to him with the undeniable truths of her life. The first interaction they have when they're walking home together, she tells him that her [00:16:00] stepfather Stabbed her mom in the chest four times, not out of a like storytelling mindset or like a shock factor. She told him because he, she wanted him to know the truth.

And even if the truth hurts and the truth is scary and the truth is disgusting and fearful and terrifying or traumatic, she's going to tell it. And same with Donnie, and that's why he thinks that he can rely on her in that sense. She comes to him with the most undeniable truths, and so he will come to her, even if it seems crazy or scary or weird.

They are the people that they come to for each other. 

Aaron Couser: He calms down and he tells Gretchen about Sparrow's book and that he's been seeing visions and what is written in the book explains what he's been going 

Jonathan VanSickle: through. He fully trusts her. This is one of the few people, you've seen him with his therapist, with his parents, dodging these questions, not giving full truths, but with Gretchen, he, he tells her exactly what's happening and exactly what he's seeing.

And that's all 

Aaron Couser: he thinks about. He is on the search [00:17:00] for answers. What's in this book. He's, he feels like he's on the right path. He's getting the book. He's learning about Sparrow. His journey to continue gets him right back into Monitoff's office, time travel, and really to dig in. 

Jonathan VanSickle: This is the first time they've seen each other since he was given the book.

And as we've seen, Donnie has learned and seen a lot since then. Bros 

Gabby Browne: read that book three times back and forward. 

Jonathan VanSickle: They start discussing the, uh, the spears. Well, each vessel travels along a 

Aaron Couser: vector through space time 

Jonathan VanSickle: along its center of gravity. They start explaining this thing. theory of time travel and how it works.

And Donnie starts pressing a little bit about really deep philosophical things considering free will, you know, everyone's path. If you could see your path, 

Aaron Couser: you could change your future. Changing the Pre destined future. 

Gabby Browne: The spear has to find a wormhole. The spear [00:18:00] itself is not a wormhole. You are seeing the physical movements of some entity in the future world or whatever.

But that entity needs to be able to access a wormhole to time travel. 

Aaron Couser: Donnie wants to know if If you could see your path and you could change your destination that is different from the one that the spear is going down, does that argue against the existence of 

Jonathan VanSickle: God? Well, this is where things get really tricky with this movie too because The way Donnie puts it, he says, Not if you travel within God's channel.

And that's where this becomes, it's like, is this a movie about science? Is it about time travel? Is it about God being all knowing and setting us all on these certain paths and everything being predetermined? I mean, this movie opens up a can of worms in a whole bunch of different areas and sometimes you're just not sure exactly where it's pulling you.

Honestly. 

Gabby Browne: Exactly. And I think each person can take it as it is, in the sense, that's why they left it in that sense of so [00:19:00] open ended. Literally put us in a Christian suburban home in Middlesex, West Virginia, you know? We are in the time of epitomal family. This is family values. We are Christian households with God in our house.

Even if religion wasn't necessarily the base, even if Donnie doesn't believe in God, he has those values constantly instilled in him, guilting him, pressuring him. They're always in his mind no matter what. I'm

Aaron Couser: not going to be able to be guiding

Jonathan VanSickle: him, it doesn't seem like Frank's in charge of the plan. I think there are some aspects of this movie, where if you're talking about pre determined destiny and things like that, it Almost leans towards and acknowledges some godlike power, some divine situation from above. 

Aaron Couser: Something is making the spears go a [00:20:00] certain way and you act a certain way.

So if you have a heightened ability to see that, then you have the ability to change your destined future. Molotov does not want to go any further and talk about that. Can't talk God in school, kid. And maybe that's the director basically saying, this is where you have to decide and make up your own mind.

Gabby Browne: We also can't talk about religion in school as soon as he mentioned God. He was like, we gotta stop, we gotta stop. 

Jonathan VanSickle: That's true. And we've already seen the climate in this school before with that. Prior PTA meetings. Exactly. 

Gabby Browne: And also this is not the teacher to talk to about God. If you want to talk about God, you got to go to Kitty.

You know, this is the teacher that has already like kind of stationed himself with Drew Barrymore and we are like the more reality based teachers. 

Aaron Couser: Looking at the calendar, Donnie's laying in bed. He's just counting down the days. He knows that something's coming and. Not sure how it's gonna work 

Gabby Browne: out.

Walking down the sidewalk, and he looks down on the ground, and he finds a wallet, [00:21:00] opens it up, and Oh my god, is that Patrick Swayze? Jim Cunningham? And then he looks over, the house matches the ID. Lord, baby, we have hit the jackpot. We know where Mr. Cunningham lives now. What are you going to make me do now, Frank?

Aaron Couser: Dr. Thurman and Donnie talk about Sparrow's book. 

Gabby Browne: Oh, yeah. Yeah. They talk about the book and he says that he's been seeing the spears and that the spear led him up the stairs. What did you find? Nothing. I didn't find anything in the closet, in the shoebox that I took. I didn't find anything. Which is a rare lie for him.

Yep. And she can tell he's lying. He never lies. He always is saying what's on his mind. He literally started unbuttoning his pants in front of this therapist. Truth on truth on truth. But he knows that this is something that could get him into deep shit. So he's not telling her this. This is the kind of thing that you tell your [00:22:00] therapist and they have to call someone.

You know, you tell them that and they're like, gotta call your parents. We're the police, buddy. I'm sorry. We gotta get something done right now. You know, this is the, this is the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You're gonna harm yourself or someone else. So we call them 

Jonathan VanSickle: IMGs. Infant 

Gabby Browne: memory generators. 

Aaron Couser: The invention that will change all of mankind.

And this is what Donnie and Gretchen kind of came up with. Stupid. Sorry. IMG. IMG. Which is Infant Memory Generator. Purpose of this would be to give infants glasses with positive imagery. It 

Gabby Browne: just really shows Gretchen's good intention. Even if she doesn't know as much as Donnie does. Even if she's not the intellectual basis, like, she just wants other people's lives to be filled with more joy than hers has been, truthfully.

And she wishes that her life was different, but she can't help that now, so [00:23:00] she wants to help other people, and I think that's very beautiful. The idea is a 

Jonathan VanSickle: little convoluted, like a lot of things in this movie, but it's basically, if you present them with images like this at a young age, it would encourage the development.

of memory. You know, we don't remember much as infants, which is I think true for most of us, if not all. So something about this technology would help you begin to form memories quicker. But what this scene really is a vehicle for is for two awful people to 

Gabby Browne: say awful things. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. They talk about how darkness is probably important to the, like, development of a child, and then one of the bullies is like, God, didn't your dad, like, stab your mom or something?

And he's like, Get out. Teacher's like, Get out. Now she's crying and Donnie's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And then Make a scene purse make a scene in the movie. [00:24:00] Yeah, that's a beautiful moment. Exactly. It's a beautiful moment of Torment of pain that she needed something beautiful and the kiss was the beautiful thing You know a lot of times you don't realize all of the beautiful things until you're very very low And then you realize that gotta take the opportunity when you can the 

Jonathan VanSickle: unfortunate state that this girl is in I mean that she's been through this torment and pain.

She 

Gabby Browne: has to purposely seek out pleasure every time. She's in a low 

Jonathan VanSickle: play time Yeah, it's it's it's super telling and something that I think a lot of us Do probably without even thinking about it.

Aaron Couser: They've moved their relationship status up a little higher and now it's time to go to the movies. Yep. 

Gabby Browne: Let's take this date night up a couple notches.

Dark movie theater. Uh, dark [00:25:00] movie. Dark, 

Jonathan VanSickle: evil dead. Evil dead. But what's playing in the other movie 

Aaron Couser: theater? It's the Last Temptation of Christ. I don't know what Donny gave Gretchen, but she just like falls asleep immediately. Boink. She's gone. Yeah, she's out. 

Gabby Browne: Hopefully my boyfriend puts his arm around me right now.

That's what she's looking to fall asleep. And did he? No, he didn't. Because then Frank shows up next to her. Uh, three's 

Aaron Couser: a crowd, but you know 

Gabby Browne: Ohhhhhhhh And the music's playing 

Aaron Couser: Ohhhhhhhhh And Frank is there And Donny, uh, looks over and asks Why do you 

Gabby Browne: wear that stupid bunny 

Aaron Couser: suit? Why do you wear that stupid man suit?

Gabby Browne: Take it off He's like take it off 

Aaron Couser: Takes it off, it's um A man with an eye shot through. Yeah, 

Gabby Browne: he's got some longer dark hair and that he has an eye, his eyes, bleeding eyes. Yeah, it's pouring blood from it. Stripping blood from his eye. And he said, 

Aaron Couser: I'm so sorry. He said Frank was his [00:26:00] father's name. 

Gabby Browne: Frank is the name of his father and the father before him.

And then Donnie asked, when is it going to? Stop. 

Aaron Couser: You should already know that. He's written it on his arm. 

Gabby Browne: Yeah, he knows. He knows the day. He's marked on his calendar. And the movie screen begins to open up to reveal a portal. There's like clouds and lights streaming through. And then the screen opens up to a big picture of Jim Cunningham's house and boy.

Donnie knows exactly where that is. You know what to do. Yep, you know what 

Aaron Couser: to do. Make sure old Gretchen's still conked out, puts his hood up. 

Jonathan VanSickle: That hood, that hood is so iconic. Gets getting.

Gabby Browne: And simultaneously, as Donnie is making his way to old Jimmy's house. The talent show is going on, and of course, Donnie is way too cool to go to the talent show. Oh yeah, he can't be seen there. No, my god, no, his whole family's there, [00:27:00] and he probably should be goddamn supporting his sister, but no way! Oh yeah, he probably can't go because he's banned from after school activities.

I'm sure he's probably, like, not welcomed at the, uh, Auditorium. Yeah, he's probably gonna be like, Go boo, you suck! But it's not much better than what they do to Sherita when she's doing her final number and someone yells, Get off the stage, while she's performing her beautiful dance. And I don't give a shit.

Kids are mean. This is 

Jonathan VanSickle: great symbolism in this scene of Sharita, just in general, she's just an innocent person just trying to live her life purely and she's constantly, constantly being shat on by this community, these kids around her and just their, their prejudice to her being different. And this is a really good example.

We love you, Sharita. I love you, girl. In movies like this, you know, we talked about having tentpoles of like, this is the pure, this is the righteous, this is the judging. Well, this is the innocence. Yeah, 

Gabby Browne: she is definitely the innocent. Mm hmm. The 

Aaron Couser: true innocent. That's her. And. Behind the scenes, it's Sparkle Motion.

It[00:28:00] 

is my 

Gabby Browne: very distinct pleasure to introduce to you. Emily Bates, Susie Bailey, Samantha Darko, Beth Farmer, and Joni James. They are Sparkle Motion.

Oh baby, Sparkle Motion now. And of course we see too during this part that Jim is actually the host of the talent show. So of course he's not at his house right now. 

Aaron Couser: Kitty's back there trying to pump up Sparkle Motion. Yeah. Telling her daughter that if she has to vomit, just swallow it. Yep, 

Gabby Browne: just swallow it, babe.

Aaron Couser: Well, Sparkle Motion is incredible. They've got that 

Gabby Browne: it factor. They have the it factor. They have Samantha Darko. It is 

Aaron Couser: a standing ovation. Meanwhile. Sharita sitting outside. Sad. Dejected. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Well, to Gabby's point, Sparkle Motion wasn't really They were so mid. They're 

Gabby Browne: so [00:29:00] mid. Charita? 

Jonathan VanSickle: Do you know how much emotion she put She put so 

Gabby Browne: much effort and love 

Jonathan VanSickle: into that performance.

And the way she got treated compared to these girls 

Gabby Browne: and their little glittery costumes. Exactly. you, Sparkle 

Jonathan VanSickle: Motion. I think that's an important part in this movie. Whenever we're shown things like that, you know, I think that's important to take 

Gabby Browne: note of. Absolutely. The contrast. Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Exactly. This is backed by Kitty Farmer.

The bridge between parents and teachers. She is the one leading the kids.

The giant portrait of dumbass Jim Cunningham's house with all of his dead deer on the wall, you know, because he's probably a hunter he has to, you know, kill. First of 

Jonathan VanSickle: all, I don't think it looks like him too much. Yeah. And one of the big things about that is, is like, a person like this isn't living their true identity.

No. 

Gabby Browne: Obviously, as we're about 

Jonathan VanSickle: a false image of themselves. And I think that's what's really illustrated here, when you're looking at his home and all this. It's opulence everywhere and the way he envisions [00:30:00] himself, it's, I mean, that's another telling 

Gabby Browne: character. And you're also supposed to be this humble man, like teaching people about fear and love and you literally have a self portrait on your own fricking wall like that, dude.

You're living in wealth, you loser. And Donnie says, let's burn it down and he takes big old thing and gasoline and just starts. tossing it all over the room. Light it up up. Let's go. Another slow mo'ed burn in scene while the simultaneous clapping happening on. It's very beautiful. And it goes up in flames.

Yep, while Queen Drew watches from the backstages as Sparkle Motion does a very average job. Very mid performance. But everyone is like, I've never seen that!

Donnie makes it back to the theater just as the movie ends and Gretchen wakes up. I'm gonna say out and he's like the whole movie dude And [00:31:00] then he just like starts making out with her like pick up where we left 

Jonathan VanSickle: off I guess he doesn't smell like gasoline or flame. I know I guess not Ever since I was a kid, I would watch this movie and go like wouldn't you smell like gas?

Like she'd be like, where were you? She doesn't know and this is kind of one of those scenes Maybe you guys I have some, some enlightenment here, but a lot of these things that Donnie is told to do by Frank seems to serve a greater purpose, seems to serve the storyline. But I think this is one of those that almost kind of breaks the mold that we're told at this point.

I mean, I love The way this is revealed to what we learn later about Jim. But what is the significance of him burning the house down in fulfilling his destiny? 

Gabby Browne: I think my specific theory of this intention, he burns the house down because he needs his mom to take her daughter to LA. The mom needs to be on the plane.

That is the intention. No matter what Rose, Rose needs to be on the plane with [00:32:00] Samantha because Jim Cunningham's house was burned down. Kitty cannot go on the plane. And so Rose has to go and that's why they're able to have the party. It's a misguided intention necessarily because like Donnie's actually doing more good in this instance than he actually believes, but like the reason for it is.

So, Rose can take the girls to L. A. and they can have the party and stuff. And that's 

Jonathan VanSickle: where you have this whole, like, different timeline almost happening identically at the same time as we're being told a story from one perspective from an unreliable narrator at that. We have this kind of master plan unfolding in the background.

Gabby Browne: Everything is just... So purposeful, painfully purposeful. 

Aaron Couser: Cap, looks like we got another room back here. As the firefighters fight the fire in Jim's house, they find this 

Gabby Browne: secret room. Quote unquote, kitty porn dungeon. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Absolutely horrible. 

Aaron Couser: If you think about Jim, this is the last thing you would think that he [00:33:00] would be involved in.

Gabby Browne: Um. Actually, I don't know man, if you are an adult like kitty farmer. People are freaks underneath the surface. You never really know anyone, truthfully. Bye bye, Jim. He wrote this book, I'm sure, to help deal with his own conscious decisions. With all due respect, sir, what exactly about my methods do you find inappropriate?

Aaron Couser: October 24th, 1988. Six days remain. Karen has been brought to the principal's office. Her style of teaching isn't really what the middle sex high school is looking 

Gabby Browne: for. Sorry, Drew. We're not allowing the kids to think for themselves. We're trying to teach them all the same mentality. Just don't get that here.

Sorry. If you want that progressive thinking, go to Harvard. 

Jonathan VanSickle: And I really thought in this moment... Stepping outside of the movie for a minute as just a movie watcher, I really wanted this moment to hit harder. It's a really important piece of the story, [00:34:00] I just think they could have done a better job with it.

I do too. It was really kind of frustrating because this was the crux of Drew Barrymore's entire character was pushing these children to think outside the box and to really teach them something about themselves instead of some pre formulated bullshit. Yeah, I was really kind of bummed out because I always remembered this scene, but I wanted it to be a little more, give me a little more um.

I don't think that you 

Gabby Browne: have a clue what it's like to communicate with these kids. And we are losing them to apathy. They are slipping away. 

Aaron Couser: And it really crushes her. You know, she walks out of the school. I mean, they give her one more week. Finish out the week, girl. To, to teach. Walks out of the school and just screams into the air.

Charisse sees her and she says, I'm sorry that I failed you. And moves on. Principal Cole announces that Sparkle Motion is going special. Star Search 

Jonathan VanSickle: 88. 

Gabby Browne: Star Search 88 in L. A. Big deal. Holy 

Aaron Couser: guacamole. Only the elite of the elite, like Sparkle Motion, make it to Star Search. [00:35:00] 

Gabby Browne: The same time they are finding out about the true success of Sparkle Motion, another teacher turns a newspaper around to Mrs.

Farmer to show that sp

Spectrum of love and fear being played on the face of an actor because my god girl went from cheer and joy To be like literal opposite end of the frowny spectrum. That is one acting scene Specifically that I watch multiple times just in the realm of facial expression Hers is so good. Even if she's like Always plays an annoying freaking character.

I've never seen her play a character that I like or enjoy. She's just always going to play that one freaky weird lady. But my God, she can act. She can act. She's 

Aaron Couser: mastered that. Oh, yeah, she's Nat was the worst [00:36:00] thing she could possibly have heard. She's in hell now. And she immediately goes to the Darko house.

Gabby Browne: Now believe me, of all the other mothers, I would never dream of asking you. She doesn't immediately go to the Darko house. She asks every other... mother because she couldn't possibly, she could not possibly think about Rose taking her children to L. A. You were the last mother I would have asked. But everyone else is busy and they all said no.

Aw, Kitty, that's 

Aaron Couser: awful. Because Kitty is dedicated to Jim. Yeah, 

Gabby Browne: Kitty's more dedicated to Jim than she is Sparkle 

Jonathan VanSickle: Motion. Yeah, dude. Her own daughter and her success. Yeah, she's willing to follow this. Convicted pedophile now to be at his defense hearing 

Aaron Couser: his arraignment. It's just 

Gabby Browne: the Literally just an arraignment and it's like it's it's it's the falsehood of beliefs that some people will literally [00:37:00] follow their beliefs Beyond knowing facts outside of them, which is just insane, you know truth 

Jonathan VanSickle: seekers situation situation You know what?

The hardest thing to con people of is that they've been conned and the way that 

Aaron Couser: kitty got to rose 

Gabby Browne: Sometimes, I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion!

Jonathan VanSickle: Rose is looking at Donnie's calendar, which he has some more extremely detailed and beautiful, but disturbing, images drawn. She sees the X's marking down the time till Doomsday. Donnie walks in, and you can see immediately on his face, this is brilliant acting, again without words, that he sees her noticing the drawing, and he's almost a little ashamed.

Like, he almost wants to turn around and just walk away, but he 

Gabby Browne: stands there. Every interaction between Donnie and Rose, there is this underlying intention that they both want more to happen. When they're in his first room and [00:38:00] she's concerned, they don't talk about dinner, they don't talk about, like, the things that just happened.

She just goes, where do you go at night, you know? Like, it's always, like, a bigger intention that's needing to be spoken, but it's never that. And so in this moment, she's like, I'm going to L. A. If you need anything. Please call Dr. Thurman. Like, Dr. Thurman is who is here for you right now. This is just the relationship between Rose and Donny that like, this is the unspoken thing that is happening in the room between them.

They have a relationship that is unspoken and no one can see. He literally looks down and he's like, how does it feel to have a wacko for a son? It feels wonderful. She loves that boy no matter what will happen to him, and she will support and love and care for him no matter what, too. And she 

Aaron Couser: caresses his face.

You really see the mother's love there. 

Gabby Browne: Yeah. She's, she's proud of him, too. She knows his potential. She knows that he is smart and capable. It's like a relationship of involvement that his Him and his dad don't necessarily have. He's filling out the envelope to give to Roberta [00:39:00] Sparrow and it says, Extremely important.

He has so many questions to ask her. His professor isn't going to answer them for him. He said he's going to lose his job if he continues this conversation. He has no one else to talk to but Roberta. He has to go to her now. She's the only one with the real answers. Yeah, exactly. 

Aaron Couser: October 26th. 1988, four days remain.

Donnie's basically wishing Karen a final goodbye. She 

Gabby Browne: didn't tell anyone else though. She's just like hanging out reading this book. She's leaving. This is her last day and he says, what should I tell everyone else? She's literally doesn't even tell any of the other students that she's been fired. 

Aaron Couser: So she's been teaching all these classes and just not saying anything, huh?

Nope. 

Gabby Browne: She's gonna dip after this. The cellar 

Aaron Couser: door written behind her. Is this a famous book? Cellar door? No. Oh no, it's a 

Jonathan VanSickle: phrase. Yep. It's, it was 

Gabby Browne: She says, of all the things ever written, they say cellar door is the most beautiful phrase. Just cellar door. [00:40:00] Cellar door. Karen 

Aaron Couser: just stumbles, stumbles out of the 

Gabby Browne: room.

Karen walks out, and Sherita's looking on, and Donnie approaches her. Grabs her by the earmuffs and tells her, Someday, Everything is gonna get better for you. And then she's like, shut up! And like, runs away, drops her book. Remember when we used to wrap our books, you know? Do the outside there and then be able to like, draw all over them?

That was so fun. Well, she's got a crush on Donnie. We see that Donnie's name is kind of like, written in hearts and flowers. Kind of figured throughout this entire movie because he was the only one that was nice to her. He pops those earmuffs on and walks home. I love that too. 

Jonathan VanSickle: He takes on that perspective.

Gets a different look and he, you know, walks a mile in someone else's shoes. And I think at this point Donnie's really realizing how much bigger the world is than he perceived before. He's really kind of opening his eyes to a whole different reality that he may have been kind of sleepwalking through 

Gabby Browne: up [00:41:00] until then.

And how much more important He is to people and his realization in the moment that he's like, I'm not as alone as I 

Jonathan VanSickle: thought. And I'm not just going to see treat over here and just ignore her and walk down the hall. He comes up to her and not only does he interact with her, he tells her one of the most honest, disturbing and ground shaking truths that he can.

It's not always going to be like this. Things will get better. And that's an incredible experience to see him, to see him realize his power. 

Gabby Browne: I want to talk about your past today. Oh. Donnie is hypnotized again. Donnie, what did you want for Christmas? Hungry, hungry 

Aaron Couser: hippos. During this hypnosis, Donnie is starting to make admissions, that he flooded the school, he burnt down Jim's house, and that he only has a few days left before they catch me.

Time's 

Gabby Browne: up, Frank said. He has the power to build a time machine. She's 

Aaron Couser: trying to understand, why are you... Following these [00:42:00] crazy commands by Frank, I have to obey him or I'll be left all alone. Frank 

Jonathan VanSickle: saved my life. Yeah, 

Gabby Browne: Frank saved him. He owes Frank. Donnie's like terrified. He curls up, he then gets up and he goes and grabs a little stuffed dog and he's snuggling him up.

He's like, who's gonna kill? Frank's gonna kill. The cut between. Jake Gyllenhaal screaming, I can see him right now! And then the turn and Frank is in the therapist's office in his vision while Donnie's laying on his knees, looking up to Frank. He says that the sky is gonna open up. The therapist is trying to calm him down because like, if the world is gonna end, there's gonna be no law.

There's no rule. The only thing that will be left are you and him and your memories. This is 

Aaron Couser: the ominous, it's about to go down moment. Like, he's admitting everything he's done. 

Gabby Browne: Frank is showing himself in his therapist's office. 

Aaron Couser: He wants to know [00:43:00] Frank's master plan as well. He wants to see where it all ends up.

Why Frank has been doing what he's been doing. I got in. October 29th, 1988. One last day before the world ends. I'm going to 

Gabby Browne: Harvard. Hey, we should totally throw a party. 

Aaron Couser: Big, important, huge accomplishment for Elizabeth. 

Gabby Browne: Yeah, girl got into Harvard. Girl is voting for Dukakis and she's going to Harvard. Screw you, dad.

Ha ha ha. Yeah, queen. And Donnie's like, uh, we should throw a party. Like, the parents are out of town. We should just do this. And Elizabeth is like, uh, yeah. Let's do that, actually. Good job, little brother. Great idea. I know you're a little emotionally unstable, but at least we gon party, baby. And during this part, they show a carved pumpkin.

Okay, the parents already know about Frank. Why are we letting Donnie carve a bunny pumpkin? They [00:44:00] carves Frank into a pumpkin. How about we sit down with Donnie at the family pumpkin carving event and we say Hey Donnie, let's just do a little Jack o lantern this year. How does that sound, buddy? You know?

Donnie's 

Aaron Couser: in his skeleton outfit now. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Iconic. Pretty, very iconic. That onesie. During 

Aaron Couser: this, this very loud party, you see a series of the answering machines going off. You remember those from back in the eighties? 

Gabby Browne: Mm hmm. Rose, this is Lillian Thurman. It is extremely important that you call me as soon as you get 

Aaron Couser: this message.

One is of the concerned Dr. Thurman telling Rose, you have to contact me now. Donnie is in grave danger. And 

Gabby Browne: Donnie's been doing a lot of messed up stuff that you are needing to know about ASAP. This is a concern for a parent and I don't also want to be the one to have to call the police before talking to you.

You were concerned for a reason.

Aaron Couser: Gretchen shows up. She's [00:45:00] distressed. She's crying. 

Gabby Browne: Something happened. He leads her upstairs and she says, My mom is gone. The whole 

Jonathan VanSickle: house is completely trashed. She thinks her stepdad, who has violent tendencies in the past, 

Gabby Browne: Stabbed her mom. They never found him. No, they never found him. He's always been on the run.

He's on the lam. And it's cause they've never found him and that he's always been out in the world and she thinks it's her stepdad. It has to be her stepdad. He's found her mom again. She's not there at the house. She called the police, they checked everything else, but she has to go to a safe place. And so she goes 

Jonathan VanSickle: to her boyfriend's house party on 

Gabby Browne: Halloween.

Your safe place is not with the 

Jonathan VanSickle: police, Gretchen. Yeah, right? 

Gabby Browne: That was another one. Pretty sure. has to go to Donnie. Yeah, everybody has to go to Donnie. I'm just so scared. I keep thinking something awful is 

Jonathan VanSickle: happening. And then so once again, in this moment of great sadness, [00:46:00] upheaval, and uh, tragedy. 

Gabby Browne: I guess some people were just born with tragedy in their blood.

Smoochie time. Maybe more than smoochie time. Wait, That 

Jonathan VanSickle: premarital action that we were discussing earlier. This is probably 

Aaron Couser: a big goal for him. 

Gabby Browne: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean he's talked about it enough with his therapist that we knew that this was at least one of his goals in the movie. 

Aaron Couser: I was calling from the airport, talking about how well Sparkle Motion did during the quarterfinals.

Woo! We'll take the 

Gabby Browne: red eye back tonight, we should arrive around 8. 30 

Aaron Couser: in the morning. And to expect them. Yep. And hope everything's going well, which it's not. The 

Gabby Browne: phone call happened during the sexy time. 

Jonathan VanSickle: So things were going very well.

Aaron Couser: Midnight. And during this time, Elizabeth, you find out that her boyfriend, Frank, is missing. And one of her friends says he's on a beer run. [00:47:00] Elizabeth's boyfriend at this time is named Frank as 

Gabby Browne: well. She says, has anyone seen Frank? Frank? And then that's when, as soon as the word Frank comes out of her mouth, his chest spear starts to form and leads him to the fridge where it says, Frank was here when to get beer.

I think this is the motion where he's like, Frank is real. Frank is a person. This is, this is the identification of him realizing that Frank is not just in his mind anymore. The cinematography spins and he's like holding onto the walls. His world is getting flipped upside down. His world is getting flipped upside down, truthfully.

And I, I took it as it was. His mind coming to terms with the fact that Frank is not an imaginary person anymore. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Moments maybe in that moment too with Gretchen. In that moment he realizes the connection between Frank and Gretchen that we're about to have. 

Gabby Browne: He sees the handwriting on the fridge. It's the same handwriting that Frank made him write at the scene of the school.

He is seeing it [00:48:00] all in real time in the sense that he's not dreaming anymore. He's not in his. therapist's office with a six foot bunny standing over him that no one else can see. This is Frank's handwriting, literally written on the walls. Six 

Aaron Couser: hours to go October 30th 

Gabby Browne: under the Milky Way tonight. This is another montage with slow motion parts.

Cellar door is whispered. This is the first time that we're seeing the closest thing that we can to like what we've been shown as a portal of the sky being open up. Donnie being able to see things. He hears his teacher's voice cellar door, and this is when he opens his eyes and his. Face is buried in Gretchen's stomach.

He sees through her wormhole. Yes. I'm assuming that that's what that was. But it also I feel like is something else too. He's looking through that shit. That's when 

Aaron Couser: he hears the cellar door. Yes. Is when he's 

Gabby Browne: in Gretchen's 

Aaron Couser: fear, he sees where he's supposed to go. Maybe he's been waiting for this final vision.

We don't really see what 

Gabby Browne: he sees. I [00:49:00] honestly don't even think he knows where he needs to go though either. I think he's just like, I gotta go see Sparrow. Yeah. I, this is beyond, well, he knows it's it's bed over. Yeah, this is, this is, and also this is beyond anything that I could recognize as well. Like, I know Frank's real now, I know everything coming to a head, truthfully.

Donnie 

Aaron Couser: pulls that hood back over his head, they ride their bikes to Sparrows. 

Gabby Browne: Gotta go find Grandma Death ASAP. Everybody's on their bikes. On their bikes, Halloween. He's got shoes on this time, and we are ready to go. 

Aaron Couser: They go into the cellar. 

Gabby Browne: Of Roberta Sparrow's house. And he goes in with Gretchen, the other two boys wait outside.

Aaron Couser: Gretchen plays a little note from 

Jonathan VanSickle: the piano. This is in the, uh, foreword by Roberta and Sparrow. This intent of this short book is to be used as a simple and direct guide in a time of great danger. I pray that this is merely a work of fiction. If it is not, then I pray for you, the reader of this book. If I am still alive when the events foretold in these pages occur, then I [00:50:00] hope that you will find me before it is too late.

Donnie, you knew, you knew, Donnie, you were... So she was beckoning to him the whole time, like, find me, come find me. Don't fucking move! 

Gabby Browne: Don't fucking move! You're dead! The bullies are here and they have pantyhose over their faces. Well, they're here to rob the house. They're here to rob Roberta. They show up, fate esque, knives drawn, and one bully throws Gretchen into the road, while the other one is, like, about ready to do the ol Slitterson to to Jake.

While Gretchen's out of breath, knocked out a little bit in the road, the other guy is like, Don't even fuckin move. If you try to help Donnie, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stab you too. 

Jonathan VanSickle: And then what's Donnie say as he's grasping for 

Aaron Couser: breath? Dos ex machina. Our savior. Think about that word. Dos ex 

Gabby Browne: machina. Anytime I think of dos ex machina, I think of, like, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom and the relation between their, like, earthly religion and the control of [00:51:00] machines.

I think this is also meant to represent The standing between the world and like time travel and science. 

Jonathan VanSickle: Well, they talk about it in that book as well, is like, whenever you see an artifact, which is one of the signs of a glitch, it's normally something technological and metal. An arrowhead, a great sword, or you know, a metal engine, jet engine.

It's almost like divine intervention, but that's not the exact word I'm looking for. It's some kind of divine act. We 

Aaron Couser: see Roberto Sparrow standing in the middle of the street reading Donnie's letter.

A car, a red car, a red race car. Trans Am. Trans Am. Speeds through, has to swerve out of the way of 

Gabby Browne: Roberto Sparrow. Girl is confident in the middle of the street at night, she knows. Her spot. Yep, she gon be good there. The townspeople should know by now, at this point, it's been a full month of this woman just crossing the street.

If you're in [00:52:00] the area, drive slowly. 101 year old woman crossing. 

Aaron Couser: Unfortunately, they don't see Gretchen, you know, laying in the ground. She calls out for 

Gabby Browne: Donnie and it's so quick. And then just run over full double whammy, all four tires. This is a done deal situation. All of the bullies have run off by this point, they were here to scare some, some other fellow high schoolers.

I truly don't think they were here to murder. They were, they were here to get some money and scare some people, but now someone is. And no one wants to be a part of this currently. 

Aaron Couser: Well, good on Frank. You know, he could have just drove off after running him over. He stopped, 

Gabby Browne: you know. Well, his friend gets out Frank.

Wake up. What'd you do? He's in a clown fit, which of course I love that we pick, like, the cutest, cutest, cutest Most not scary Halloween costumes in this movie. Just a giant bunny rabbit and a clown getting out of a car. Very [00:53:00] on par for not being scared at all. The clown gets out and he's like, Frank, what did you do?

What did you do? You killed her, Frank. And then we finally see him. We see his mask. Gray, 

Jonathan VanSickle: furry. Yeah. Familiar silhouette. Silhouette. It's Frank. His friend. He's 

Gabby Browne: totally fine. But a different Frank. A Frank that's... It's a living person in this reality that Donnie's not the only one. Everyone can see him now.

Donnie's not the only one anymore. 

Jonathan VanSickle: He doesn't have a bleeding eye. He doesn't have a distorted voice. 

Gabby Browne: He says, she's, she's dead. What the fuck did you do, man? You killed her, Frank! And Donnie looks him straight in the eyes. Lifts up his gun. It's a predetermined destiny. Truthfully,

Jonathan VanSickle: the 

Aaron Couser: only thing that he ever cared for or connected with has been murdered, and now he's a murderer and love [00:54:00] of his life is dead, and he stands there and go 

Gabby Browne: home. Go home and tell your parents everything's gonna be okay. The 

Aaron Couser: only thing left to do is end this universe by bringing the artifact back to the primary universe.

Mm-hmm. , which is the jet engine. Right. 

Gabby Browne: There's a lot of things that could be taken in that sense. I don't think Donnie knows exactly what he needs to be done right now. I think at this moment, literally in the line even, he says it. Go home and tell our parents everything's gonna be okay. He's a little kid right now who literally got put in a flash moment.

When you're gonna take someone's life or take your own life, it's... split decision. It happened so quickly and everything in this moment from Gretchen's death to Frank's murder happened so quickly that I don't even think he was able to think about that. And that's why he was torn through this emotional spiral of being a child again and being like, just go home and tell your parents everything's gonna be okay.

Because this was not [00:55:00] something that he made a rational choice of. This was Donnie's first irrational choice. Because I think he was truly doing this based off of emotion in that moment. And then everything came together in this forceful manner. It was so forced that he was just like, I don't know what to do now and now I have to figure something out.

That's my own thought on that. I have a 

Aaron Couser: different perspective

Wake up. All the events are being put into place by this force, we can call it, and that's, that's the argument, you can call it God, maybe it's aliens. 

Gabby Browne: Whatever's taken the form of Frank. Right. In Donnie's head. And 

Aaron Couser: also projects that spear for everybody in their destiny, but there are events that have happened.

If the school wasn't flooded, he wouldn't have walked with Gretchen and become boyfriend and girlfriend. If it wasn't for the fire. In Jim Cunningham's house, we wouldn't realize he's a pedo and Kitty [00:56:00] stays in Rose Chaperone's every little encounter. Even the kids, when, when he's shooting and his friends tell him someone should write Sparrow a letter, that puts that thought in his head.

Or when Frank tells him about time travel, that puts that thought into his head. Every little thing leads up to this moment where Sparrow has to stand there and read his letter so they can swerve and hit the love of his life. Also becoming a murderer and have nothing else left to live for in this universe, which forces him to just go ahead and do it and destroy that tangent universe.

But that also creates the theory, did he ever really truly have free will?

Did those forces force him to do those things? 

Gabby Browne: I, the only thing I will say, I totally agree with you and I feel like I was saying everything to that point too. This is just the only first point where he wasn't given the choice beforehand. Where Frank didn't come to him in his brain powers. Spirit to [00:57:00] say, you need to go do this to the school.

You need to go do this to Cunningham's house. This was the moment where Frank revealed himself in like a human form where Donnie had literally no choice at that moment. We 

Jonathan VanSickle: were able 

Aaron Couser: to see our destinies manifest themselves visually. And we would be given a choice to betray our chosen destinies. And the mere fact that this, this choice exists would make all preformed destiny, uh, 

Jonathan VanSickle: come to 

Gabby Browne: an end.

He did have a choice, but didn't. This was the revelation of Frank in the living world. These moments were the most forced. They had to happen. This was the only moment where his mental Frank did not offer him the choice beforehand. And that Donnie had to make the choice himself. And in that split moment, He chose to kill Frank.

He chose to take the life of someone else, an eye for an eye. Do you think he knew he was going to be the one to kill Frank the entire 

Jonathan VanSickle: movie? I think part of this is, I mean, much is the way the director tries to tell the story. It's, it's a lot of [00:58:00] things all at once. I think it does refer to some sort of intelligent design or something to this effect.

Not only does this story take him exactly where he needs to be as far as a teenager, trying to find his place in society, trying to find his role in life, trying to find meaning in his existence right now. It also shows him the importance of these things through the tragedy of losing Gretchen, through watching his parents go through this.

turmoil with him in school, with his sister, and handling fame and all these things, everything kind of comes together perfectly. And I think that in itself is what inspires the time travel. Him meeting Grettchen, like you said, had to happen, all these things kind of had to happen for this story to wrap up, for him to fulfill his destiny.

And whether that may be predetermined or not, or how much he had to do with it, I think it was one of those things that It just perfectly happened the way it needed to. There isn't really a lot explained after this in the movie as far as why these things happen, but we do know that [00:59:00] Donnie did all these things perfectly to lead him to his absolute destiny, which was making the sacrifice to protect his family and the woman that he grew to love.

and willing to lay it all on the line for. I don't know how, I don't know why, but I think it's one of those things that it all happened for a reason, no matter if you know exactly where that reason comes from. Absolutely.

Gabby Browne: Six hours or two minutes. Before

Aaron Couser: it's too late, he makes that decision to get the car, take Gretchen all the way back when we started the movie, in that 

Gabby Browne: same spot. Well, he goes home and he He kisses his sister on the head, takes her car up to the spot. He's driving like a bat out of hell. But [01:00:00] before he leaves his house, that's when he sees that vortex tunnel beginning to form above that predetermined destiny portal that is going to be released.

He drives up to right where we were at the very beginning of the movie. And he's looking up at the sky, watching this giant tunnel 

Jonathan VanSickle: form. Do you see the little plane 

Gabby Browne: maybe? Yeah, in the background, driving through. Oh, I can see my mama! there and we cut to Rose and Samantha on the plane and we hear some of the reiterations of what the book has already said.

A big spaceship or a large metal craft, a metal craft of any kind. The engine is ripped from the side of the plane as Rose and Samantha hold on to each other for dear life and Donnie sees as the engine is being thrown through this future spectrum wormhole. He gets in the car with dead [01:01:00] Gretchen. What if you could go back in time and take all those hours of pain and darkness and replace them with something better?

Talking about the future in such a positive way. What if you could do something to make everything better? He has 

Aaron Couser: learned how to create. An amazing wormhole to take this artifact back into the primary universe to complete his destiny. Only way that could have ever happened is a series of events that have led him mentally to this point.

You see the jet engine traveling through that wormhole, takes that right into that correct primary universe, and then everything starts going back in time. We're back to October 2nd.

Gabby Browne: Dear Roberta Sparrow, I have reached the end of your book, and there are so many things that I need to ask you. Sometimes I'm afraid of what you might tell me. Sometimes I'm afraid that you'll tell me that it's not a work of fiction. I can only hope that the answers will come to me in my sleep. I hope when the world comes to an end I [01:02:00] can breathe a sigh of relief.

Jonathan VanSickle: We 

Aaron Couser: see Donny back in his old room, a picture of that eye is there, with a little skull on it this time. It pans out to see Donnie and he's, 

Jonathan VanSickle: he's happy. 

Gabby Browne: Bro is giggling. He figured it out. He's laughing his ass off. He 

Jonathan VanSickle: can't believe he figured 

Gabby Browne: it out. Yep, it worked. He's 

Aaron Couser: happy. He's content. You've never seen him this...

Giggly. Just 

Jonathan VanSickle: carefree. He had a purpose and he fulfilled that purpose. 

Gabby Browne: And then we have another beautiful montage of all the lives that Donnie Darko has touched Even in this tangent world of what could have been. Almost like 

Aaron Couser: they're remembering something or waking up from this dream Remembering what has just happened in that tangent universe and some people respond differently to it.

Some are upset, 

Gabby Browne: shamed Jim Cunningham seems like he's living in a lot of fear. 

Aaron Couser: He's ashamed [01:03:00] of himself 

Jonathan VanSickle: It's like deja vu is what they say. Whenever you experience deja vu, it's because you've been down that timeline before. They're all experiencing a little bit of that, 

Aaron Couser: like, wait, did that, did that happen?

Maybe. Or is it about to 

Gabby Browne: happen? The two liberal teachers are laid up together, of course. I could have told you that without knowing, but They definitely fucking And then you see 

Aaron Couser: Donnie turn 

Gabby Browne: over. It's the same thing about what he said with his dog earlier. He wanted to be alone. But he was 

Aaron Couser: content this time to be alone.

Yeah, he was. He had gone through this journey of being afraid of dying alone, going through this hero's journey, and now being strong enough and content enough to perish alone. 

Gabby Browne: All around me are familiar faces. Worn out places.

What's going on? Horrible accident. My neighbor, got killed. [01:04:00] Body bag is being carried from the building. FAA has a lot more paperwork for them to sign this time. Oh baby. Yeah, um, everyone is just distraught. Like Maggie Gyllenhaal. Mascara down the face. She's still wearing the clothes from the night before.

Eddie, Samantha. They're, they're snuggled up together crying. Of course, Rose always has at least one vice. So she is leaned up against a tree smoking a cigarette. This is the end of their world together. Even 

Aaron Couser: Eddie, man, that actor, that 

Gabby Browne: was great. Yeah, he was a very character, not character actor, but he was a very expressive actor.

I really enjoyed him as like a dad. Me too. Real, real good dad figure 

Aaron Couser: there. You really could see that they were really upset that their, that their son was dead. They really loved 

Gabby Browne: him. Yeah, even if there were problems, even if you are a whack job for a son, I'd rather have you than anything else, you know?

You're the only thing I've ever known. As the jet engine is being taken away, a young woman rolls up on her bike, [01:05:00] and it's Gretchen. The Gretchen that was never touched by Donnie Darko. She sees little neighbor boy. Literally, we're gonna end the movie with this little twat? Who, who was it? What was his name?

Donnie. Donnie Darko. Gretchen and Rose have one of the most beautiful moments. Only people who have been touched by true tragedy can sense that empathy resonating from one another. Where you know what that pain feels like of losing someone. And she waves. It's in this all knowing type of way and Rose waves back and then the movie ends on that little fucking blonde kid waving his hand up and I'm like, no, you're just an outsider.

But then isn't that the entire point of the movie is outsiders getting in on people's fucking business. Yeah. Sorry. What was his name? Donnie. Donnie Darko. 

Aaron Couser: It was a brilliant, brilliant movie. 

Gabby Browne: One of my favorite. [01:06:00] It is my favorite movie, you know, I'm a nerd deep down for Lord of the Rings and that I read the books when I was a kid.

This is that young adult science fiction, out of this world type of brain movie that has the comedy built in ready to go. It has the relatability. It has the sad boy quality. Yeah, it's perfect. Truthfully, just a very good fricking movie. Perfect. Did you know?

No. Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. Arthur Conan Doyle.

Spotlight.

All of our resources will be found in the show notes or on the website, please check them out if you have any questions.[01:07:00]