During the podcast episode, Chip shared his vast knowledge and experience in the commercial real estate industry, discussing topics such as the impact of technology on the industry, the state of the west Michigan industrial market, and the latest trends in the market.
During the podcast episode, Chip shared his vast knowledge and experience in the commercial real estate industry, discussing topics such as the impact of technology on the industry, the state of the west Michigan industrial market, and the latest trends in the market.
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Unknown
Ow, ow, ow, ow! All right.
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Chris Prins
Hey, everyone. Welcome to episode four of the Car West Michigan podcast. Just a lot of fun fact. I think Max made the statistic last time that most podcasts don't make it past episode three. So we're already there and surpassing kind of, I guess, the standard quo for most podcast.
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Max Grover
Yeah. What was a nine it Did you say 90% of podcasts don't make it past three episodes? And then there's another handful that don't make like once you make 20, you get up in the top and if you make 100, most of them don't make 100. So we're not even close. We're working towards it or.
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Chris Prins
Trending in the right direction. So yeah, that's good.
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Max Grover
That's good. Good stuff.
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Chris Prins
Well, we have our guests here today, Chip Hurley from Signature Associates. So, Chip, thanks for joining us today.
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Chip Hurley
Yeah, thanks for having me.
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Max Grover
How it kind of weird to have the headphones on still even for me and Chris. I know by putting the headphones on, you have to hear your own voice. But welcome to the studio.
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Chip Hurley
Thanks.
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Max Grover
Yeah, it's been it's been kind of fun. We were kind of talking about putting it all together and how it came together, and there's really no rhyme or reason. It really was. It was Chris's idea. And then we've just been having fun. Fun with it. Adding to it, we got Luke. IDE is editing it for us from Atlas and a cool core business for him and he's been rocking it out for us, so Markowski should drop soon.
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Max Grover
Episode three followed by Chip Pam was supposed to be here today, but something quote unquote came up, so I don't know. She was busy. Yeah, she's busy.
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Chip Hurley
Really busy. Just hammered.
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Max Grover
Hammered or hammer Hammering. Working, hammering. Word. Yeah. Cool. So unfortunately, we'll have to get Pam another episode, but excited to have you here and kind of talk with you and work through your real estate journey and and life.
00;02;01;25 - 00;02;26;19
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Chris Prins
Why don't we take it back from the very beginning? How did you come across this industry and how did you get into it?
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Chip Hurley
Yeah, so it's actually been a while since I've been here, obviously. But before I got into real estate, actually my background's geology, so I was a geologist with an environmental firm for about five years. I worked in California and Michigan and has some really cool experiences. But when I moved back to Michigan, I was in the business for a couple of years and then the regs changed.
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Chip Hurley
So that's when we as practitioners got to be here, which is great for our industry. It wasn't so great for the environmental industry in that a lot of the stuff I was working on were cleanup projects. Yeah, so they were everything that we know now and we abide by. Back then everything was residential, cleaned up standards. So if you had a gas station or industrial site, you had to clean it up to residential standards, which didn't make a lot of sense if it was always going to be used as industrial site.
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Max Grover
And and for the the layman, that means that hey, somebody is actually actively going to be living on the site, kids might be on the site playing, eating the dirt and oh, my kids would be, yep, that's the residential standard. Is that somebody might live here someday.
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Chip Hurley
And they still have that standard, relatively speaking. But industrial is different standard than, you know, office things of that nature. So it's one of the higher risk criteria, if you will. But you know, what we look at now is risk to make risk based criteria versus residential standards. So it makes way more sense. And it allows, you know, as you guys know, buyers to come in, say, hey, you know, we want to use this a little differently than the last user.
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Chip Hurley
We understand that there's some issues here. But, you know, basically what you do is and I should back up, you guys know this bar is baseline environmental assessment. So you do your assessment and basically document what you what the property has or what the condition is prior to your occupancy. So whether it's, you know, leasing or sale that the the clock starts ticking once you occupy the space.
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Max Grover
And not to get totally off track, but how often do you as a practitioner or even when you're doing the phase ones, how often were you really concerned about doing the phase one process as a tenant? If you're working with a tenant right. And even today, it's.
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Chip Hurley
Just very it's very, very difficult to get somebody to do that. Not very many people see the value in that. Basically, where I push it a lot is if it's a tenant that is occupying that everything that they're going to buy it down the road, they need to do that right now. You know, right prior to occupancy than that, I have a very difficult time, just like everybody else, to get something to pay for that unless, you know, on the flipside, if somebody has an existing phase one phase two based on them purchasing it within the well since 95, then they could go buy that data and have better understanding what was there prior to
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Chip Hurley
the current owner.
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Max Grover
And I don't think I've ever done one. I don't think I've ever done one of these.
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Chris Prins
Never had a tenant.
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Chip Hurley
Yell.
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Max Grover
At everybody. I mean, if you're really risk adverse, if you're a major company, if you're going to be doing something crazy on the site, that might have some potential environmental ramifications. So they're probably more likely to do that where it's like, hey, I there's potential with caustic materials coming to the site, but we need to regulate and watch our stuff and maybe that's when you would do it.
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Chip Hurley
Yeah, at the head on the nail that a lot of larger companies that are you know multi state they like documented that stuff and I think it depends on what the use says if the landlord was comfortable enough to have them as a tenant but somewhat concerned about what their process was, they might require that they do that.
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Chip Hurley
Yeah, but, but really I think that where the value is, if you're a tenant, you're going to buy it potentially down the road. That's the easiest way to sell that.
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Max Grover
If there's an option to purchase or something in place. And even then you're probably going to update the face. It's going to be out of date for the bank.
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Chip Hurley
Yeah, well, no question, but it's a starting point that's fair. But so that's kind of what I was doing before I got into real estate, which is really.
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Max Grover
Cool in West Michigan was.
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Chip Hurley
Michigan and so full of fun fact Kore, which owns all the industrial stuff, which was previously the Gruters facility or portfolio Gruters, I believe, purchased or sold their portfolio to First Industrial Realty Trust. During that transaction, I was one I did all the phase ones for all the buildings in West Michigan and Detroit. So it was is pretty cool.
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Chris Prins
So you got to know those buildings a little bit.
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Chip Hurley
Oh, I know quite well before I even got in the real estate. Yeah, so I did the site works and all them.
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Max Grover
Wow. I won't ask any major issues now. Okay. Now that I.
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Chip Hurley
Know that one was pretty clean. So as far as the portfolio goes, I didn't I don't recall of anything jumping out at me saying, oh boy, this is a big issue.
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Max Grover
How And you said you did that for how long? Five years. Five years. What was the. And maybe you're not allowed to like and the. I have no idea with that. But any cool projects that you did work on outside of that that there were major concerns that came NBA and worked through the due care process.
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Chip Hurley
Nothing well nothing regarding real estate. When I was in California, I did a tank pool in Napa. I did some tech pulls up in Lake Tahoe. So I always take my mountain bike. And particularly if I was out of that state of city or traveling for the projects, I'd always have the bike in the back. And and that was a great gig.
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Max Grover
So and like diesel tanks for an old farm or something like that, or.
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Chip Hurley
Actually gas stations, I was doing a lot of work on gas stations in California and their regulations are way different than Michigan. So, I mean, everything is.
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Max Grover
Easier there, right? You know.
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Chip Hurley
There's there's clean up everywhere. One of the coolest things that I did, I was actually doing a project in Pasadena and we had a map. The site we did basically is oil orange all around this little postage stamp gas station. And there were actually three oh, two faults running through one little site. So you could see in the cross section all these different faults and different strata that was basically offset based on these little faults.
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Chip Hurley
And yours was pretty cool.
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Max Grover
That's cool. Cool. Just geeking out up there.
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Chip Hurley
Yeah, I love it. I was geeking out for sure.
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Max Grover
That's very cool.
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Chris Prins
So what brought you to Michigan from California then? Yeah.
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Chip Hurley
So I went to Albion for college, for undergrad, and then during they have a really good field camp program and so that's why I'm in South Dakota and Montana. And one of the guys that I met out there who ended up being my roommate essentially for that program, had a intern at this company called Groundwater Technology and in L.A. And so they had lost a geologist and he said, hey, there's there's a position available should apply.
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Chip Hurley
And I had graduated at the time he was graduating six months later. He had, I think it did internship. And so that was delayed his graduation a little bit. But so when I interviewed, I've never been to L.A., never been to California, really. And so Monday I had the interview and I had the job that same day. So I guess I'm going to California.
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Chip Hurley
So that was that was fun. But I knew I wasn't going to stay out there. So I was spending all my vacation coming back to Michigan and Midwest to see family. So in my mind I'm thinking, Well, I really like to go on vacation when I vacation, but then I'd always and this was back before emails, before online stuff.
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Chip Hurley
And so I'd come back and look at the papers on ads, and I'm looking and seeing that I could buy a house for what I was paying half and rent an apartment. And and at the time San Francisco when I moved back. So it was like I could move back, have vacation, right?
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Chris Prins
Yeah. Be around family.
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Chip Hurley
So it was funny. I ended up putting a transfer within the company because it was a national brand or company at the time and they said, Well, we have a we don't have an option for you in Detroit. That's I want to get closer to mid west west Michigan, then northern Michigan. But they said we do have a small field office in Grand Rapids.
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Chip Hurley
And I was like myself, this could be good. So ended up coming back here. Actually, I was able to keep my salary at the time. So it was a it was a fun thing for me and.
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Max Grover
Like a pay raise.
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Chip Hurley
And so was it was it was a yeah, it was fun for me. So.
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Max Grover
Yeah, I feel like I heard about that from quite a few people during COVID where it was like, Hey, now all of a sudden I can work remotely, but I don't have to be in the big city. I can move out to insert suburb and don't have to commute state money on that. Maybe I sold the car, save money on that.
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Chris Prins
Cost of living is way down.
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Max Grover
Exactly. Pretty cool. Yeah.
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Chip Hurley
So then different time, but very similar.
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Max Grover
So you came back, you were still doing this same company in Grand Rapids?
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Chip Hurley
Yeah. Then they ended up shutting the field office down and move everybody to Chicago. And I'm like, I just moved back to Big city. I'm staying here. So I ended up working for a company called Earth Tech, which is now a AECOM. Okay. They still have an office here in town, so.
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Max Grover
Okay.
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Chip Hurley
Cool. But then 95 roll around and half the industry got let go. So I was a geologist, didn't have a masters. Our hold of it, our whole department got let go. So I had a Ph.D. in there. We had tons of people that had their masters, and I'm like, I want a little bit more control over what I'm doing.
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Chip Hurley
And the industrial in particular, the industrial real estate was intriguing to me because that's kind of what I worked on and.
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Max Grover
What caused everyone to get laid off or let go or something.
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Chip Hurley
So actually it was interesting. At the time I was working on Earth Tech, I was doing a lot of stuff, federal programs, Superfund stuff for service projects, which I did a lot of traveling for. But they're they're pretty cool projects. But that was the year, so I guess it was 95 that year, that January. They couldn't balance the budget and they all those project programs dried up at the same time.
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Chip Hurley
That's when Michigan was changing the regs from the risk or from the residential standards to the risk based standards. And all the remediation that we were doing in West Michigan or in Michigan in general just dried up as well. So we had a double whammy. So our industry was hit very, very hard. I mean, it took ten years to recover from that.
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Chip Hurley
A lot of people just got out.
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Chris Prins
Yeah.
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Max Grover
Okay. So you're looking at that and you're like, okay, I can I can move, I can find another job. And that was 90.
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Chip Hurley
Five, 95. So I got my license. 96, right? Yeah, 96. And Mike, Mike sells the one. He was heading up the Cool Banker Division subdivision. And so he interviewed me and I was like, I could do industrial. I think I'm comfortable with it. And so it took me a little longer than I expected, but, you know, it's been a lot of fun and I like having the freedom to kind of come and go as I please.
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Max Grover
And that's awesome because I love myself. So yeah. Oh, yeah, he's the best.
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Chip Hurley
He's all right.
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Max Grover
Yeah.
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Chip Hurley
No, he never is very close. Still so.
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Max Grover
Very cool. Yeah, he's awesome.
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Chris Prins
And at that point in 1996 was there's like a discrepancy between, you know, commercial and residential. It was all kind of mismatched and everyone did a little bit of everything.
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Chip Hurley
Back then when I started. There's definitely a defining line there. I mean, there were definitely people that bridge that gap on both like we're seeing in our our page today. But, you know, I mean, was Nike. I mean, they were a huge focused force to be reckoned with. Stan had a great operation over there, and he had been in the business, I think early seventies, late sixties.
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Chip Hurley
I think he started was in ski, late seventies, early eighties, if I recall. Don't hold me to that, but I'm just going off memory here.
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Max Grover
We don't do a lot of fact checking.
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Chip Hurley
Marianne, if you're listening to this, when you when you are interviewed you can correct?
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Max Grover
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
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Chip Hurley
But you know there was Dodson Realty Mike Dodson who was no longer with us. He passed quite a while ago. He and Bill BOLLING, we're working together. So there are definitely a group of people that did a lot of commercial stuff. And I think. Ray Kaiser, same thing. If you looked at his.
00;15;14;22 - 00;15;15;07
Chris Prins
Obituary.
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Chip Hurley
It was amazing what he had done over the years of his career. So there were definitely a separation from residential, from commercial.
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Max Grover
How long were you Coldwell for?
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Chip Hurley
We were there maybe a year and a half. And then so I don't know if you know all this stuff. So I've done a little history on the industry or so. Jeff Skewer owned AG's commercial. Yeah. So basically what happened was call banker Schmidt Realty didn't want they really didn't want to play with the commercial industry or that that that line of that the real estate industry so Mike Mike cell and Gene PINSKY I know we're good friends with Jeff skewer and they talked about doing a commercial version so we started the commercial division of Vegas Realty.
00;16;06;01 - 00;16;17;04
Chip Hurley
And so we were there a couple of years and then Van Martin and Jeff merged and became partners. And that's how CB came into Grand Rapids Market.
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Max Grover
Okay. Yeah, no kidding.
00;16;18;23 - 00;16;21;29
Chip Hurley
Yep. So that was, you know. CB Richard Ellis.
00;16;21;29 - 00;16;23;02
Chris Prins
Murray Yeah.
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Chip Hurley
And just trying to think what else. Yes. And then obviously Van is still here, but CB is a corporate office now, so I mean there's a lot of change that I remember or have seen since I started the industry.
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Max Grover
Yeah, I feel like in the I've been in ten years now and Holy cow.
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Chip Hurley
Yeah, I'm shaved.
00;16;44;21 - 00;16;51;05
Max Grover
Yeah. Last week. One day. Yeah, last year.
00;16;51;07 - 00;16;53;29
Chip Hurley
So you were 13 when you started.
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Chris Prins
Something like that. Yeah.
00;16;55;28 - 00;17;20;06
Max Grover
So but a lot of those brokerages that we see now, I mean full on commercial brokerages that are in place and intact today were have been here. So, I mean, I've started to see some of that transition happening with some of the houses and that type of thing. But it's always interesting to hear where how oh, yeah, I worked with so-and-so here at this house and I didn't even know those existed.
00;17;20;06 - 00;17;23;11
Max Grover
And, you know, you just know the world as you see it today. Yeah. You guys.
00;17;23;11 - 00;17;25;28
Chip Hurley
Prior to know AGs Realty and the in her that.
00;17;25;28 - 00;17;28;10
Chris Prins
I knew just a little bit through my college days.
00;17;28;10 - 00;17;49;13
Chip Hurley
But yeah. Boz So then how'd it go. So then I left CCB and ended up working with Duke soon and that grew over at Grubb and Ellis Properties and that was a ton of fun. I was there almost ten years, nine years, and we just had a really good group of people over there. But I had a ton of fun.
00;17;49;13 - 00;17;59;02
Chip Hurley
We were always having a lot of fun going out, but also working really, really hard is a great time to be in the industry and I learned a ton from that group.
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Max Grover
What what years were that or were you at?
00;18;01;24 - 00;18;04;14
Chip Hurley
I started there back in 99 oh.
00;18;04;19 - 00;18;05;03
Max Grover
Two.
00;18;05;03 - 00;18;20;04
Chip Hurley
28. Then I ended up going to was in ski and we were starting to do specialization there. Prior to that they were generals and so Aaron Young was heading up that office and so he wanted.
00;18;20;06 - 00;18;20;25
Max Grover
To.
00;18;20;27 - 00;18;35;13
Chip Hurley
Create a little bit more of a specialization per per agent. I mean, was really up to the agent at the time to do that. But if they were comfortable specializing in doing certain product types, whether it be industrial retail office, they could do that.
00;18;35;18 - 00;19;02;22
Max Grover
And there's probably not. And we talked about it a little bit with Jason too, but not everyone probably knows or understands that like in these brokerages, not everyone always does everything. So selling an office one day, an industrial the next, or retail, their sole main focus might be office, industrial, multifamily land investment, property. And it's all kind of broken out like that.
00;19;02;22 - 00;19;25;15
Chip Hurley
So yeah, I think I still have that thought process. And if you're trying to represent your client best way possible, if you don't know retail refer now, give it, you know, get somebody else in your office to do that, you know, industrial time 96 when I was getting in the industry, no one knew what it was. No one knew how to deal with environmental.
00;19;25;15 - 00;19;39;28
Chip Hurley
And I was in a unique position to start doing some of that stuff. So early on. I knew that stuff quite, quite well. Now, you know, typically most people know what they're doing, but initially no one had a clue what to do.
00;19;40;01 - 00;20;00;02
Max Grover
Yeah, it's a it's the first time you get a phase one back. And Chris, you probably I mean, even in the retail side, you see it all the time with gas station and whatever it might be. But that first time that you get a phase one that comes back recognized as a facility and you're like, what does that even mean?
00;20;00;04 - 00;20;01;17
Max Grover
Because he can start working today.
00;20;01;18 - 00;20;04;24
Chip Hurley
You got to start with what? Sorry. See, I don't.
00;20;04;26 - 00;20;05;21
Max Grover
Get a.
00;20;05;23 - 00;20;07;19
Chip Hurley
Facility. Wait a minute.
00;20;07;22 - 00;20;08;12
Max Grover
Back up was.
00;20;08;14 - 00;20;12;28
Chip Hurley
The index or I need to know what these that the glossary is. I need to know what these things means.
00;20;12;28 - 00;20;33;01
Max Grover
Yeah. And that's like an on my first deal. Like we talked about them last show that was a burnt out gas station. That was my first sales, $50,000 gas station downtown and burnt out. And of course comes back as a phase one comes back and they're like, Hey, this is a gas station. I'm like a Sure, do we really have to do this?
00;20;33;03 - 00;20;34;19
Chris Prins
Do you really have records that far?
00;20;34;22 - 00;20;57;25
Max Grover
Exactly What a pain. So at least that part of it, to have that knowledge base and not be freaked out about it because I know that freaks it freaks a ton of people out even now. And it's like, hey, there is a process to protect yourself. There is, you know, the do care plan that goes through the state gets approved, and so long as you get through that, you can still safely use the property in.
00;20;57;27 - 00;21;31;25
Chip Hurley
Well and you know city is a brownfield department John and cluster great got to talk to if you have any questions on that but I like that stuff I mean it has a little hair on it but I know it well enough. That is fun for me. Plus, there are incentives to clean up some of these things. So sometimes it might not you might not get a huge benefit, but at least you're getting into property in a reasonable cost structure, not you're not overpaying and having all this liability you have that have a way to mitigate some of that stuff.
00;21;31;27 - 00;21;49;11
Chip Hurley
It's another thing that I've been doing recently. Along those lines, though, I got contacted by a lender out of Saint Louis and they had something in some part of the state and they don't know what to do with it. So it was an old fire. What was it, a coal fired energy plant. Somebody bought it. They were going to tear it down.
00;21;49;11 - 00;22;10;21
Chip Hurley
And, you know, basically redevelop it that the company that had it basically extracted all the valuable metals and things of that nature. And, you know, cashed in on recycling. That material then left it as is and go back to bank. And so the banks like what we need to sell this Can you sell it first I'm like it looks like a world word.
00;22;10;21 - 00;22;13;19
Max Grover
To like a bomb went off. Yeah.
00;22;13;19 - 00;22;15;29
Chris Prins
You can see what's coming out of it.
00;22;16;01 - 00;22;18;18
Chip Hurley
That wasn't it. It's not that bad. But you know be.
00;22;18;21 - 00;22;21;20
Max Grover
There can more they pulling out of it. What kind of material.
00;22;21;20 - 00;22;35;21
Chip Hurley
It wasn't that bad as far as contamination but they didn't finish the demo so it midway through demo they left it as is. You have a 20 foot deep, you know, basically a foundation in the hole in the ground that.
00;22;35;23 - 00;22;37;14
Max Grover
You know, anybody can fall sick to and.
00;22;37;18 - 00;22;48;07
Chip Hurley
Someone's going to do some with that. You got to do you got to finish the job. You can't just sell like this. If you're going to sell like this, then be prepared to pay or, you know, get pennies on the dollar on this thing again. And that's.
00;22;48;07 - 00;22;48;27
Max Grover
Still.
00;22;48;29 - 00;22;50;23
Chip Hurley
Out there. There's still time for what could.
00;22;50;23 - 00;22;51;29
Chris Prins
Still wait for a buyer.
00;22;52;02 - 00;22;52;26
Chip Hurley
Well, they're still trying.
00;22;52;29 - 00;22;53;24
Chris Prins
Still trying to figure out what.
00;22;53;24 - 00;22;55;05
Chip Hurley
They're going to do. They're all.
00;22;55;07 - 00;22;57;11
Max Grover
Lazy. Fill it and make it a.
00;22;57;14 - 00;22;58;09
Chip Hurley
Big, full.
00;22;58;11 - 00;22;59;23
Max Grover
Giant pool.
00;22;59;25 - 00;23;01;13
Chris Prins
That community pool.
00;23;01;15 - 00;23;10;05
Max Grover
That's cool. So then see, you're doing the doing that get into brokerage you're with you're with Mike. So.
00;23;10;08 - 00;23;14;05
Chip Hurley
CB Yeah, overlapped a little bit and then okay.
00;23;14;07 - 00;23;17;07
Max Grover
And then you went to I'm sorry, I forget Girl.
00;23;17;09 - 00;23;17;21
Chris Prins
In Elk.
00;23;17;28 - 00;23;19;24
Max Grover
Analyst. Okay.
00;23;19;27 - 00;23;23;10
Chip Hurley
And so then Grubb was in Ski and that that's.
00;23;23;10 - 00;23;24;08
Max Grover
Where I was in Ski two.
00;23;24;08 - 00;23;24;16
Chip Hurley
Right?
00;23;24;19 - 00;23;30;19
Max Grover
And as you unpack your suitcase or do you just leave, do you like unpack a desk or do you just.
00;23;30;22 - 00;23;37;07
Chip Hurley
Oh, I was just remote. That's why I love the seats nowadays. Right. Got my laptop now.
00;23;37;07 - 00;23;37;27
Max Grover
Yeah, exactly.
00;23;37;27 - 00;24;02;20
Chip Hurley
I was actually at Grubb for the longest. Okay. So I was it was Escape for a short stint. They actually were. That was prior to them merging with NTI. Yeah. And I was with Grubb when they merged with Commerce and it changes the culture dramatically. And and that's partly why I wanted to change things up, things that were a little different than what I was used to.
00;24;02;27 - 00;24;10;00
Chip Hurley
And so when they announced that they were going to merge, I was not that excited about going like.
00;24;10;00 - 00;24;12;28
Max Grover
I've been I've done this before.
00;24;13;01 - 00;24;36;23
Chip Hurley
And in hindsight they merged. I think from my perspective, I mean, I'm outsider looking in, but they've they have a great group of people over there. And I think everything that they've tried to do, they've done very well and they've worked very well together with that merge. And so it works. That worked very well for them. I just didn't know that at the time.
00;24;36;23 - 00;24;45;19
Chip Hurley
And I sure I did just didn't want to go through that process again because things change quite a bit. At the time I was working for Mercantile Bank and.
00;24;45;19 - 00;24;49;01
Max Grover
I think that's when I started. Okay, you were at Mack. Okay.
00;24;49;05 - 00;25;10;02
Chip Hurley
Yeah. So Ric Vandenburg was a client of mine and he a couple of listings with him and then he started getting these things back. You know, this was after 2008 when, you know, things start hitting the fan. And at one point he said, Chip, I have over 200 properties. I have to figure out what to do with I need help.
00;25;10;04 - 00;25;15;21
Chip Hurley
Is there anybody that you know that would be interested in or be willing to help us in house? And, you know, that's one.
00;25;15;21 - 00;25;18;18
Max Grover
Thing, and I commend the banks. I remember.
00;25;18;21 - 00;25;19;01
Chris Prins
That for a.
00;25;19;08 - 00;25;35;21
Chip Hurley
While. And then, you know, everybody else was going down, too. And so I'm like, this might be an interesting opportunity. And so I was there. I ended up taking the job. And the first day I get to my desk and I did 80 some properties on my desk. They should figure it out. I had stuff as far as what's it.
00;25;35;21 - 00;25;41;04
Max Grover
Worth, what, what's it worth? Day care, what it was worth, what you did today.
00;25;41;07 - 00;26;08;07
Chip Hurley
That Well, yeah. What's market value? That's what my job was to figure out what market value is, have the broker contacts and have a plan to, you know, basically dispose of the asset. But also my project role as well was to I was is like I was only in these things. So they're like not only you dispose of these things, you have to have a plan for maintaining the asset so it's not degrading.
00;26;08;10 - 00;26;09;17
Chris Prins
You're playing property management.
00;26;09;17 - 00;26;31;23
Chip Hurley
Oh yeah, yeah. I was doing everything there and so I had stuff as far north as Traverse City, stuff down in Nashville, Tennessee, North Carolina, and everything in between. So I was really busy for two and a half years, but it was again, a ton of fun. And also Rick was very good about allowing me to work things on my own, aside from the bank stuff.
00;26;31;23 - 00;26;46;29
Chip Hurley
So as long as I if I had deals going because it was very hard to transition out of the industry, I still had class. I was I was working with. And he said, long as I was doing this stuff on my own time and I disclosed what I was doing, he didn't have a problem with it. So it ended up being a very lucrative time for me.
00;26;47;02 - 00;27;06;22
Max Grover
How hard I mean, doing that, you're owning the property, like you said, you're managing it, you're selling it. You obviously probably know the asset pretty well. Hey, get it on the contract and now the bank already has it back. But how hard is it then to get actually through the sale process? Is the judge still involved at that point?
00;27;06;22 - 00;27;30;15
Chip Hurley
Is there lot of times judges are not involved. There are whole I won't get into it on this interview, but there are a number of different scenarios that could play out in the particular scenario. What happened. And the easiest thing that the bank can do is, you know, file a default and the borrower works with them saying, hey, you know, work together.
00;27;30;15 - 00;27;46;23
Chip Hurley
I know I owe you guys money. I'll give you back the real estate and collateral. And whatever the division deficiency is, I'll be on the hook for some of that. Those were the easy ones. When you had a buyer or owner that didn't want to.
00;27;46;25 - 00;27;47;08
Max Grover
They sell.
00;27;47;12 - 00;27;48;29
Chip Hurley
Their property.
00;27;49;01 - 00;27;49;11
Chris Prins
Back.
00;27;49;11 - 00;27;53;09
Max Grover
And investment property was easy to take back and bury.
00;27;53;09 - 00;28;15;26
Chip Hurley
Yeah, I mean, it is a possible example of a business that is operating there. You know, if there's still income coming in, what the bank use a lot of times is called a forbearance. So they would not essentially foreclose immediately. They'd work with the borrower to figure out how do you get or maximize the value of that asset.
00;28;15;29 - 00;28;25;24
Chip Hurley
Sure. And if there's income coming in, the bank's taking that and creating a reserve and and so forth. So I mean, it gets into the weeds well beyond what I.
00;28;25;24 - 00;28;31;07
Max Grover
Ever did because of the bank. I mean, in that in that circumstance, not like the bank actually wants the property. No.
00;28;31;09 - 00;28;32;04
Chip Hurley
Absolutely not.
00;28;32;07 - 00;28;39;13
Max Grover
It's in their best interest to work it out with that. Absolutely. If they can if they see light at the end of the tunnel.
00;28;39;15 - 00;28;39;25
Chip Hurley
Yep.
00;28;40;01 - 00;28;43;29
Chris Prins
And working through that rather than bring it through the courts, as I said, a whole lot easier.
00;28;44;01 - 00;28;46;10
Chip Hurley
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
00;28;46;12 - 00;28;57;24
Max Grover
So when you're taking these 86 to 200 files and then working through them, who, what kind of people were stepping up to buy them was a, you know.
00;28;57;26 - 00;29;21;06
Chip Hurley
All across the board. I mean at that time those that had money, cash, they they created another form of wealth. But being in a position to take advantage of that market, I mean, here all of a sudden people are trying to get rid of things, they can't afford things. And there are parties out there waiting in the wings to clean up.
00;29;21;09 - 00;29;22;05
Chip Hurley
And they did.
00;29;22;08 - 00;29;23;25
Max Grover
Sure. I mean, even today.
00;29;23;27 - 00;29;26;01
Chip Hurley
There is an immense amount of wealth that was great at that time.
00;29;26;01 - 00;29;50;27
Max Grover
I still hear, you know, it's, you know, 2008 you're talking and it's 20, 23. And I everyone I'm sitting on the sideline. I'm not listening again. Right. Right. And I listen again because I feel like a lot of people feel like they missed out. And then in my mind and and obviously it's different when you're actually going through you're going through the crap and you're walking through it and cash dries up and changes things for people.
00;29;51;00 - 00;30;13;05
Max Grover
But at the same time, you know, you kind of look at it and you're like, how far can the market really drop before people step in and start buying again? Because they so many people live through this experience of watching it. What did it do? Have nothing be more $0.75. Everybody got to.
00;30;13;08 - 00;30;16;13
Chip Hurley
Think about how many people live paycheck to paycheck right now.
00;30;16;14 - 00;30;17;01
Chris Prins
Sure.
00;30;17;04 - 00;30;20;02
Chip Hurley
And if you're doing that, you're not going to be able to.
00;30;20;05 - 00;30;22;26
Max Grover
You're not you can't is impossible. Yeah. And that's.
00;30;23;01 - 00;30;24;04
Chip Hurley
Why the they're.
00;30;24;07 - 00;30;25;07
Max Grover
Is killing them, too.
00;30;25;07 - 00;30;25;22
Chip Hurley
Yep. Yep.
00;30;25;23 - 00;30;53;15
Max Grover
Was just killing them. So that's it. It's the the inflation thing is hurting people living paycheck to paycheck more than anybody because of those that right diapers gas and putting on the credit card have to buy them. Yeah no right so I yeah I understand but I just dealing in our world of the commercial real estate where it's like these high net worth individuals, high net worth individuals like I'm never missing that opportunity again.
00;30;53;17 - 00;30;54;11
Chip Hurley
Yeah, absolutely.
00;30;54;14 - 00;30;58;14
Max Grover
Because you didn't know if it was going to come back or not. No one. No.
00;30;58;16 - 00;31;04;25
Chip Hurley
It was almost like I mean, I'm not going to compare that to COVID, but it was it was a.
00;31;04;25 - 00;31;05;27
Chris Prins
Real.
00;31;06;00 - 00;31;21;28
Chip Hurley
It's same thing what we dealt with. I mean, like we were all walking around in shock. I can't believe this is happening. This is just absolutely beyond what I would have ever expected. And, you know, fast forward ten years is a little different, but we're doing the same thing, going I'm walk around a days. I can't believe we're in this situation.
00;31;22;01 - 00;31;25;21
Max Grover
Right? Yeah. I don't think I'm in a position to take advantage of it.
00;31;25;23 - 00;31;45;00
Chip Hurley
But but think about it. I mean, I do believe we're going to have an adjustment sometime down the road. And like, I deal with a lot of industrial stuff. I can't find Internet and so I think anytime there's a change, there's always opportunity. And there are clients that I granted there will be some people with a slowing down.
00;31;45;00 - 00;31;58;03
Chip Hurley
Their business is going to slow down, but there are definitely going to be companies and individuals out there that need real estate to run their business. They haven't been able to find it and all of a sudden things are going to come up available and they're going to take advantage of that.
00;31;58;05 - 00;32;25;24
Max Grover
Yeah, and I think I just saw a listing come out today. Is 750 a square foot for, you know, 50,000 square feet or whatever it might be of industrial. And that's a real big difference. But then it's scary because then you're like, okay, I do know somebody bought something out there in the market that they could re let the same space at 325 and still make money where I have to hit 750.
00;32;25;27 - 00;32;28;05
Max Grover
That's a interesting.
00;32;28;07 - 00;32;51;26
Chip Hurley
Well, and I think there have been enough companies out there particularly well I mean you can look up the different categories the local privately held companies than the national companies. And national companies already understand these numbers when they're they're paying this stuff in Columbus, they're bringing their stuff in Boston or, you know, some of the stuff is beyond that, you know, well beyond that in Chicago.
00;32;51;26 - 00;32;57;09
Max Grover
So the 750 that I see and I'm like, oh, that, that's high. But they're coming in there like.
00;32;57;12 - 00;32;58;10
Chip Hurley
I really saw pan.
00;32;58;11 - 00;33;00;05
Max Grover
There's a little bit less safe.
00;33;00;07 - 00;33;18;07
Chip Hurley
Right? Yeah, Yeah, that's yeah, I mean, there are some markets I can remember what I sign saying somebody that day and their who was as one of my clients actually I think about it and they were doing the deal, I can't remember where they were talking but we were looking at it. We're actually looking at a building right now.
00;33;18;13 - 00;33;39;29
Chip Hurley
I'll tell you where it is or what it is, but I think it's $4 a square foot. Wow. And it's pretty good. I mean, it's a older facility, lower ceiling heights, but they're in a market, a comparable space are looking at $18 square. Crazy difference. And so so it went when.
00;33;40;05 - 00;33;42;23
Max Grover
Yes it's office space.
00;33;42;26 - 00;33;50;18
Chip Hurley
Is not but you know it and the team that I'm working with they're doing all the deals how.
00;33;50;19 - 00;33;52;13
Max Grover
Across the country that.
00;33;52;15 - 00;33;54;01
Chip Hurley
It's 30 plus thousand square feet.
00;33;54;06 - 00;33;55;06
Max Grover
When they're 18 by.
00;33;55;06 - 00;33;56;05
Chris Prins
Ten bucks a square foot.
00;33;56;05 - 00;34;07;20
Chip Hurley
Yeah. And so I mean, you know comparing the two, they're like, well, I have to prove both of these things. Well, West mission is a no brainer. I can afford that. And I got to figure out how to get my arms around $18 square foot number.
00;34;07;22 - 00;34;10;04
Chris Prins
So you can even split the difference. You're still winning.
00;34;10;06 - 00;34;10;28
Chip Hurley
Yeah.
00;34;11;00 - 00;34;11;08
Max Grover
Yeah.
00;34;11;08 - 00;34;13;14
Chip Hurley
But it's a lot on my chair when he was done.
00;34;13;17 - 00;34;28;00
Chris Prins
Well, I see the same thing, especially in the retail world. It's okay. We're. We're going to pay it throughout the country at some point and we have to continue to grow because we were on the New York Stock Exchange or whatever, and we need to show growth. Yeah. So we just got we have to bite the bullet and do it to your max.
00;34;28;00 - 00;34;44;17
Chris Prins
To your point, I think we have a lot of retailers out there who say we'd love to see some of these concepts fail because we want to be in a specific corridor or, you know, 28th Street in the Beltline. There's probably three or four concepts. They're just kind of waiting, I'm sure, waiting on the wings, same one. Something pops up, I'll swoop in and create an opportunity for myself.
00;34;44;19 - 00;35;06;18
Max Grover
And in whether it's industrial or, or cups of coffee for retail where it's like I always think about, I'm like, how many cups of coffee? And those guys know that number down. They got it down to a science. I have to sell X number of coffee in a day to pay and make money. And it's it's amazing. That's a lot of coffee to be out on 28th and.
00;35;06;20 - 00;35;06;23
Chip Hurley
The.
00;35;06;23 - 00;35;07;16
Max Grover
Beltline Yeah.
00;35;07;17 - 00;35;23;06
Chip Hurley
And you know we're a fairly conservative market too so that their class few people paying that in this market which is stellar. I mean I personally like bring my own coffee and for, you know the cost of two of those cup you know coffees I can buy a whole can right. Yeah.
00;35;23;06 - 00;35;25;23
Max Grover
Francesca I'm afraid.
00;35;25;25 - 00;35;26;10
Chip Hurley
I'm.
00;35;26;13 - 00;35;35;07
Max Grover
I got a French press and French press guy. My wife makes my coffee, though. It's kind of nice. I actually I forgot it on the counter today. Oh, I know.
00;35;35;09 - 00;35;36;27
Chip Hurley
He probably uses a lot of premature. Yeah.
00;35;36;28 - 00;35;48;02
Max Grover
No, no, no, no. Not now. That's awesome. Don't do that. Just straight black coffee in, uh, sorry. Gaps said in the counter.
00;35;48;03 - 00;35;51;00
Chris Prins
So you finish up with macchiato for, what, two and a half years?
00;35;51;00 - 00;35;51;21
Chip Hurley
You turn out four years.
00;35;51;22 - 00;35;53;21
Chris Prins
Okay, so then what's after back into our.
00;35;53;21 - 00;36;18;19
Chip Hurley
What is so then one of the affiliates of grab unless I nuisance 99 of South Bend, Indiana Christian Everett they had done some work with me at the bank because we had stuff you know in Indiana and also southern part of the state and my buddy out there, Christian Davy. Christian Davy is like, what are you going to do after you work south out of a job?
00;36;18;19 - 00;36;43;16
Chip Hurley
I'm like, I'm I get back in real estate done I won't do yet, but I'm going to do it. And he said, Do you want to open up an office for us? So I did that for about five years and then they lost their franchise. Newmark just kind of went away from affiliate perspective, but that was a fun thing for me because, you know, it's not like now we part ways, you know, that friends, we were still very strong.
00;36;43;17 - 00;36;44;07
Chris Prins
It's just.
00;36;44;10 - 00;37;04;08
Chip Hurley
You know, there's our in the office here. That's the the platform they chose. And I'm like, you know, that doesn't make any sense for me to be addressing any. I go, Yeah, when I'm in the market with any I was asking, that doesn't make any sense. But it gave me an opportunity to talk to all the different brokerage firms.
00;37;04;08 - 00;37;14;14
Chip Hurley
You know, all my time. I wasn't pressured to having to do something immediately and I figured out where I wanted to land. Some guys were able that's how I got signature.
00;37;14;16 - 00;37;16;13
Max Grover
And how long you've been at signature now?
00;37;16;13 - 00;37;17;03
Chip Hurley
About five years now.
00;37;17;03 - 00;37;18;09
Max Grover
Five years and signature.
00;37;18;12 - 00;37;24;06
Chip Hurley
Go Yeah. So the the funny thing was Kathy was there. She's been there almost 20 years.
00;37;24;08 - 00;37;34;04
Max Grover
We asked Kathy to be on the show. She said no. What? She says, you listen to the podcast. Huge fan, but huge fan. She asked for an autograph. She didn't ask for an autograph, but.
00;37;34;11 - 00;37;38;02
Chip Hurley
But now you updated all your equipment, you know? Yeah, she sound really good, so.
00;37;38;02 - 00;37;41;18
Max Grover
She said she'll come on eventually, but not right now.
00;37;41;21 - 00;37;59;22
Chip Hurley
So the running joke between her and I, even when I was at Grubb, was she was starting to look because she was at Rehberg. So I was always trying to recruit her. She was trying to recruit me, like for the last 50 years. And so the joke is that she won because.
00;37;59;24 - 00;38;09;11
Max Grover
It saved the chair now. And you guys have four or five agents there now. Yep. Okay, that's very cool. And still all of these pairs, correct?
00;38;09;11 - 00;38;11;15
Chip Hurley
Right behind the beautiful office.
00;38;11;17 - 00;38;17;03
Max Grover
Very cool. And you guys had some change up there recently too, with.
00;38;17;05 - 00;38;18;07
Chip Hurley
That was before I got there.
00;38;18;11 - 00;38;21;11
Max Grover
That was okay. And that's before you got there. Okay. Very cool.
00;38;21;18 - 00;38;29;24
Chip Hurley
Yeah. So it's just we can manage our own deals and it's pretty laid back over there now. I don't get up at 4:00 in the morning to come in the office.
00;38;29;24 - 00;38;36;10
Max Grover
And I'm assuming everyone that everyone that's listening probably knows this, but this is a giant yellow signs. You see them everywhere.
00;38;36;10 - 00;38;38;20
Chip Hurley
So they mostly see jobs signs everywhere.
00;38;38;20 - 00;38;43;03
Max Grover
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get to your tan.
00;38;43;06 - 00;38;45;18
Chris Prins
Drive down to St Joe's, got every every other look.
00;38;45;19 - 00;38;49;15
Chip Hurley
I still has another one. What's up. That darn guy.
00;38;49;17 - 00;38;56;29
Max Grover
Yeah. It's impressive. I don't even know. I don't know how he tracks it all. Incredible. He's a workhorse. Yeah, that is that guy.
00;38;57;04 - 00;38;57;23
Chip Hurley
Yeah.
00;38;57;26 - 00;39;12;01
Chris Prins
What have you seen, Chip, from the technology? From starting in maybe 1995 to, you know, nowadays, like, I remember hearing stories of the MLS days when it was maybe you get like, what I call a spreadsheet maybe once.
00;39;12;02 - 00;39;34;00
Chip Hurley
A Yeah. So this is this is funny. And I was thinking about this when I started. William have email and I'm not I mean, I guess I'm old compared to you guys, but it's like that wasn't that long ago. Yeah, it really, the email was mid to late nineties so if you guys think about us like well that's not that far back.
00;39;34;03 - 00;39;34;22
Max Grover
No.
00;39;34;24 - 00;39;46;09
Chip Hurley
And so it's amazing what that's done because I remember when they started utilizing emails, you know, the government was trying to tax and charge just like phone.
00;39;46;09 - 00;39;46;26
Max Grover
Calls.
00;39;46;28 - 00;39;48;16
Chip Hurley
Or email per letter.
00;39;48;16 - 00;39;49;29
Max Grover
Or you're sending you then if you're.
00;39;49;29 - 00;40;02;10
Chip Hurley
Sending a document, they were going to try to figure out how to charge that. I mean, thank goodness they didn't do that. But yeah, that was an interesting conversation. Yes, an email was new on that at that time.
00;40;02;16 - 00;40;03;24
Max Grover
I get less spam.
00;40;03;26 - 00;40;06;12
Chip Hurley
Oh no question.
00;40;06;15 - 00;40;06;29
Max Grover
Spam.
00;40;07;06 - 00;40;09;03
Chip Hurley
Yeah. You throw your back a current cell phone.
00;40;09;10 - 00;40;14;05
Max Grover
In a bag or a property blast that goes out to 10,000 people. So you got to pay USPS.
00;40;14;05 - 00;40;26;12
Chip Hurley
That was dramatic. I mean, if I look at what we do now compared to what we did 25 years ago, I mean, you can't you can't operate back like that.
00;40;26;14 - 00;40;30;12
Chris Prins
Did you see deals get done a whole lot faster then or.
00;40;30;15 - 00;40;32;05
Chip Hurley
There still.
00;40;32;07 - 00;40;33;04
Chris Prins
They still take time.
00;40;33;07 - 00;40;53;12
Chip Hurley
Yeah they do is I don't think that they happen much faster. I think the data is more accessible. So it might. Yeah, you could probably say that it's happened, it happens faster because you're in the data faster, but due diligence still takes this amount of time. So it's not a huge difference. There is a difference, but not a huge difference.
00;40;53;17 - 00;41;01;11
Max Grover
I worked with Arnold, obviously named Arnold Grover, and when he started, I think everyone rode horses. So yeah.
00;41;01;14 - 00;41;02;16
Chip Hurley
But.
00;41;02;18 - 00;41;19;09
Max Grover
I actually think about like when I started and like when I first started and you're like, you think, you know, your city and your market. He grew up here. You lived here. I was born in the right time to have Google Maps because I'm like thinking about it. If I had to sit there with the map and track it all out and.
00;41;19;11 - 00;41;43;17
Chip Hurley
Yeah, so one thing that I don't do that often anymore, just because it's available, I would spend like when I was new the business one Mike said, You got to just drive the market and get to know what's out there. I mean, I basically filled out sheets on every single bill in this frickin city. I mean, it took in amount of time, but not only that, I was at the city offices quite a bit like, let's see it.
00;41;43;18 - 00;41;57;16
Chip Hurley
You're doing a deal on a particular property here. You're pulling all that data from the city files that are hard copies, all the stuff electronic. Now, you know, I emailed Carrie and said, Hey, Carrie, can you pull this information? I have 10 minutes.
00;41;57;19 - 00;41;59;22
Max Grover
Jump on the county website, jump the piece.
00;41;59;24 - 00;42;06;07
Chip Hurley
And that was like, No, you didn't do that. You didn't have that in. Yeah, it was horrible.
00;42;06;10 - 00;42;18;10
Max Grover
Even imagine working through a property with terrible title. Oh, you know, if you if your title comes back and it's a mess and having to work through that hard copy wise would just be.
00;42;18;12 - 00;42;33;18
Chip Hurley
Also something that they still had access to. Did just took them a little bit longer to get it. I mean I think the quality data was always there, but getting the information, it took time there to mail it. Are they overnight or they dropped it off?
00;42;33;20 - 00;42;34;26
Max Grover
Wow.
00;42;34;28 - 00;42;36;17
Chip Hurley
It was done a little differently.
00;42;36;20 - 00;42;54;00
Chris Prins
Well, I remember hearing Dave that he actually showed one of his old movie gallery maps where he literally would print one of those off the like he had like access to all the cities and a drive through and stuff. And he's like, we just got in the road. And for two days we just drove and we drove from about six in the morning till eight at night, got dinner and just kept doing it.
00;42;54;02 - 00;43;01;03
Max Grover
That's incredible. Yeah. No, I was like I said, I was born in the right side. You're too hard, that's why. Well, it's.
00;43;01;03 - 00;43;01;29
Chip Hurley
A how to impatient.
00;43;01;29 - 00;43;18;01
Max Grover
That's right. That's probably fair is fair. But I mean to be able to jump on the county parcel of yours or if anybody doesn't have it landslide the app is amazing and there's just so many different ways to find that information quick.
00;43;18;01 - 00;43;27;03
Chip Hurley
And I remember I was at Grubb when we got the aerial mapping program. It was called something else. It wasn't Google Earth. I can't remember. It was called now.
00;43;27;03 - 00;43;28;00
Max Grover
Grub Earth.
00;43;28;03 - 00;43;42;07
Chip Hurley
At Rebirth. Yeah, but we were the only ones in town at it. So I mean, we could play a site and everybody was like, Oh my gosh, these, these guys have this aerial map. What's up with that? Now everybody has a you have on your phone. But that was a big deal. We got that.
00;43;42;10 - 00;43;45;06
Chris Prins
Was like one computer in the office or that.
00;43;45;09 - 00;43;46;11
Chip Hurley
I can't remember.
00;43;46;14 - 00;43;48;02
Max Grover
It was the size of this one.
00;43;48;04 - 00;43;55;14
Chip Hurley
We literally had the people fly in the market and we had we had proprietary rights to that.
00;43;55;16 - 00;44;24;13
Max Grover
And that's that is how Arnold's dad actually got up in real estate and going was they had a pilot's license. And so they would come take aerial shots of the farm and the property and everything like that with the plane. Yeah. Which is just I mean, now, even if you wanted a video, I mean, to have somebody shoot over there and drone in the air in 10 seconds and yet HD photos sent to you that day it's Yeah.
00;44;24;17 - 00;44;27;04
Chip Hurley
Little pennies on the dollar compared to get a plane get in.
00;44;27;04 - 00;44;33;14
Max Grover
The plane making sure you're shooting the right property and the Yeah, yeah yeah Very cool.
00;44;33;16 - 00;44;41;05
Chip Hurley
Man So a lot less changed I mean a lot for the better from a convenience perspective. It's, it's, it's fantastic for me.
00;44;41;06 - 00;44;41;26
Chris Prins
Yeah.
00;44;41;28 - 00;44;51;07
Chip Hurley
And you know a lot of stuff for granted now too. But if I think back to what I used to do when I started the industry, I'm like, Oh my gosh, thank gosh, I don't have to do that anymore.
00;44;51;10 - 00;45;15;17
Max Grover
And we're making some old, though. You're not old enough at all. Thanks. So I just want to and think he's like this old guy sitting across the table from us either. And you've seen a ton change already. And a lot of that is probably I mean, just like you said, information and saving money and better information quicker so you can make the decision faster for those dollars are driving them to the industry.
00;45;15;17 - 00;45;16;28
Max Grover
And I remember.
00;45;17;00 - 00;45;37;23
Chip Hurley
Speaking of data because we had kind of an MLS, but it wasn't I mean, it was we were given the data daily, weekly hour. We got that. I can remember how it all worked, but I remember when this stuff started going online. Everybody's freaking out that they're going to lose their jobs because it was available online and, you know, I think we didn't know what would happen.
00;45;37;23 - 00;46;03;05
Chip Hurley
So I think, you know, obviously people are somewhat concerned how that data was going to be used. But then what we realized was that there is so much data online that people had to decipher it and interpret it because there it was an overload. So most people that were looking for buying a building or selling a building or, you know, get comps, whatever, they just were like, Oh my gosh, I got to talk to somebody.
00;46;03;08 - 00;46;03;14
Chris Prins
Because.
00;46;03;14 - 00;46;07;08
Chip Hurley
They're just way too much stuff on online. I can't sort through it all.
00;46;07;08 - 00;46;30;09
Chris Prins
There's always that fear and I respect you a lot because you can have all the data in the world, but then you have to have someone who knows the sites, drives it, who's been familiar with the buildings, who's walk through. I think that's kind of why I always tell junior brokers or people in the industry, I'm like, for the first year, just drive around the market, get to know the buildings, get to know the landlords, and just become familiar with specifics like sector or categories.
00;46;30;12 - 00;46;49;27
Max Grover
Even even on the industrial side too, you can just by driving the market, you can learn a lot about it because you're like, Hey, this parking lot is jam packed full. And you don't know that from looking at Google like these guys clearly need to grow. They need more space, or you drive by and it's empty and you're like, That's not normal, I guess unless is storage.
00;46;50;01 - 00;47;14;14
Chip Hurley
Well, not to mention there's been so much building going on just ten years that, I mean, there there are definitely buildings that have not been in whereas ten years ago. Sure. 15 years ago I was through about any industrial and that was in the market and most of the industrial practitioners were too. But I mean, it's hard to keep up now just because of so many projects now, which is exciting.
00;47;14;14 - 00;47;33;10
Chip Hurley
I mean, when I moved to Grand Rapids back in 94, the arena wasn't even here. So you come downtown, there'd be like these, there is Cottage bar and that's about it. And then, you know, you weren't around if you did, you know, had your doors locked, you know, and, and so to see what has happened since then is amazing.
00;47;33;10 - 00;47;56;06
Chip Hurley
And, you know, Grand Rapids isn't the biggest market. It isn't the biggest town. But and I'm not from here. I'm not in Grand Rapids and I have family ties here. But there's so much cool stuff that has happened and continues to happen in Grand Rapids. We always and Wausau, I'm looking at looking for we always reinvent ourselves in one way or the other.
00;47;56;06 - 00;48;22;06
Chip Hurley
I mean, if you look at what's happened along the Middle Mile or elsewhere is an exciting place to be. Just knowing what's happening in this town is great quality of life and cost of living for me, that I like to have my adventures and travel around. I think it's a great home base for me. You have a great airport that accesses anywhere you want to go and it doesn't hurt to.
00;48;22;06 - 00;48;41;28
Max Grover
Get there and and a lot of that. I'm going to butcher this where a lot of that's driven by philanthropy. There you go. I got a job. Thank you. But a lot of that is I mean, you're talking the arena and medical mile. A lot of those things are kicked off with very philanthropic people that are based here in West Michigan that I mean, I guess I haven't lived there.
00;48;41;28 - 00;48;54;09
Max Grover
I've lived in a few different places and they don't have it. There's the families that are there but not as active and involved in caring as a lot of the families that are here in West Michigan. It makes a difference.
00;48;54;11 - 00;49;09;19
Chip Hurley
Yeah, Yeah. And we benefit from it. I mean, yeah, I know some people whine about, you know, there's there's some his name on the ballot. Well, if you give, you know, a quarter of the the cost of that project to that project, if you want your name on there, you can put your name out there.
00;49;09;19 - 00;49;22;25
Max Grover
So I know I've heard both arguments from that to decide not where It's like, you know, if they didn't if people didn't have their names on the building, then everyone go, well, he doesn't give any money. Wow. So you hear the flipside of that, too. And it's like.
00;49;22;27 - 00;49;28;08
Chip Hurley
So that's in there. And there are plenty of people that don't put their name on buildings that give a tournament.
00;49;28;08 - 00;49;29;09
Max Grover
Yes.
00;49;29;12 - 00;49;48;13
Chip Hurley
And that's that's one thing that's great about this. This community is that people don't do it because, I mean, there may be people that do it because they want their name up there and it's more look at me. But I think majority, vast majority of people that give money to different causes, you know, do it anonymously. They don't they don't share.
00;49;48;14 - 00;49;51;22
Chip Hurley
And it's it's that from their perspective it's the right thing to do.
00;49;51;26 - 00;50;06;10
Chris Prins
Yeah. And something that they may never see the rewards of it may be the second, third, fourth generation till something turns out over there. Another project you have Grand Valley State obviously growing on the west side and of what that's done to spur development over there.
00;50;06;13 - 00;50;09;01
Max Grover
Yeah. Curley Tower is coming soon. Yeah.
00;50;09;04 - 00;50;15;14
Chip Hurley
I don't. Maybe Mountain Bike Park or something. Oh yeah, yeah.
00;50;15;16 - 00;50;20;16
Max Grover
Yeah. Well before we get into mountain biking because we do have to talk about that, but.
00;50;20;16 - 00;50;22;03
Chip Hurley
Pamela's not here so we can't Title.
00;50;22;04 - 00;50;30;12
Max Grover
I'm Pam. Come on, pay the bail this morning with the texter. I'm really busy today. A couple.
00;50;30;13 - 00;50;31;00
Chris Prins
Closings.
00;50;31;00 - 00;50;47;10
Max Grover
Right? Yeah. Yeah, I. Oh, that'd be that'd be ideal. But just from the state of industrial market going forward, any predictions or how is it trending and you know you're talking we have a little bit of runway in front of us as far as rents, but.
00;50;47;12 - 00;51;15;28
Chip Hurley
Well, I think, you know, the companies that need real estate, they need real estate, and particularly if it's a national brand, they're going to be panning out. They're already in other markets. It's not that big of a deal. And I think that local companies, individuals or companies that need real estate, it has been a sticker shock for us for some time because we just haven't experienced that, you know, that phenomenon.
00;51;15;28 - 00;51;38;13
Chip Hurley
But it is here to stay. Construction costs are here to stay for the most part. You know, there may be some fluctuations here and there, but if you want to do business, you're going to have to pay the price to get in the real estate, unfortunately. But, you know, I think I think going from where we've been to now, it's been painful because you're used to and you're wondering about property values.
00;51;38;13 - 00;51;57;13
Chip Hurley
But, you know, moving forward, they're all going to be supported in the transactions in the comp. So, yeah, there's there's a cost getting into these buildings. But, you know, if you ever were to go sell them, you're going to be playing with a a market that is used to those economics versus where we came from.
00;51;57;21 - 00;51;58;10
Max Grover
Sure.
00;51;58;12 - 00;52;05;28
Chris Prins
And what are you hearing from those nationals throughout the country of like the labor force? Are they seeing it get better? Are they still having or.
00;52;05;28 - 00;52;06;09
Chip Hurley
Still having.
00;52;06;09 - 00;52;07;09
Chris Prins
Issues? Yeah, throughout the.
00;52;07;09 - 00;52;19;03
Chip Hurley
Country, Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think the question everybody's asking where all these people go, But that's been frustrating, I think for a lot of people, a lot of companies and.
00;52;19;04 - 00;52;50;03
Max Grover
Are you dealing with these nationals? I mean, is market is our market what specifically more like West Michigan? Are we competitive in bringing some of these brands in? Because I know we have a we have a very big industrial base in West Michigan, but a lot of that supports the automotive industry. And, you know, as we transition to electric cars and, you know, different things, different market factors happen, are we attracting other industrial users into the state?
00;52;50;03 - 00;52;52;10
Max Grover
And what kind of.
00;52;52;13 - 00;53;25;16
Chip Hurley
And I would I would say yes, I think part of it is backfilling spaces that are important for the, you know, the the big three, the automotive industry, the furniture industry that's still that's still saying, but also one thing that we don't talk about a lot and we should is food processing. You know, we have a huge food basket that's Michigan that sure exports a heck of a lot of produce and and other things that are consumables.
00;53;25;18 - 00;53;47;05
Chip Hurley
So I think, you know, we've been a tertiary market for some time, but yeah, I can't remember how long we've been designated as MSA. This got a million plus people spend probably ten years now, maybe a little bit longer than that. Once we hit that, we were on the map. So I mean, you can see it from the retailers.
00;53;47;07 - 00;54;10;23
Chip Hurley
I mean, it's more I think that question really is more at retail than anything else We have about everything that a big city has. I mean, as far as the type of retailers, I mean, I was so excited when they got our I mean, I remember since and I've been a member since I was a geologist, for God's sakes, working out west, that's where I discovered it.
00;54;10;23 - 00;54;16;07
Chip Hurley
And now I can go down, down the street and pick up something that the store wears. I can do that five years ago.
00;54;16;12 - 00;54;22;18
Max Grover
But they have like the bargain ban or something like or as I think on, you know, like grab the stuff out of the bin.
00;54;22;20 - 00;54;27;03
Chip Hurley
Yeah they do have some resale or you know stuff that that's where I was.
00;54;27;07 - 00;54;41;17
Max Grover
Ah it with that with our market specifically so is a lot of the growth that you're seeing in the industrial market is that existing companies that are here that are growing, expanding and pushing are use some.
00;54;41;17 - 00;54;41;26
Chip Hurley
Of that.
00;54;41;26 - 00;54;45;26
Max Grover
Where you are seeing that the other companies move into the market.
00;54;45;26 - 00;54;54;03
Chip Hurley
Yeah I mean, well, I mean, look what happened to Amazon. I mean we didn't have Amazon. Now they have millions of square feet in our market. Who would have thought that.
00;54;54;05 - 00;54;54;15
Max Grover
Right.
00;54;54;15 - 00;55;14;00
Chip Hurley
Yeah. You know, I mean, the and granted, they're having their own struggles right now with volume in their business. But, you know, that was ten years ago they weren't having that conversation and see what they have developed in just this market alone and throughout you know the state, let alone the country. Oh, yeah.
00;55;14;01 - 00;55;37;04
Max Grover
It's oh, it's kind of like it's almost creepy, but also kind of sad, like we're over on 40th Street over here. They pull out in the morning and you see like 100 vans come out and like, oh, my goodness, I know that one's going to my house at least twice that second person. So I got a wife and four kids, Amazon vans there.
00;55;37;05 - 00;55;39;11
Chris Prins
It's too convenient. Yeah. Yeah. So we can.
00;55;39;12 - 00;55;48;17
Chip Hurley
Be. Yeah. For for the high dollar buyer at Amazon they should be able to buy their own van or at least name their own van. Kind of like, you know, for philanthropy. Yeah.
00;55;48;19 - 00;55;49;24
Max Grover
Exactly. Yeah. Here comes.
00;55;49;24 - 00;55;53;14
Chip Hurley
Max's band Australia and.
00;55;53;16 - 00;55;55;10
Chris Prins
No, it's awesome.
00;55;55;12 - 00;56;02;23
Max Grover
Anything. I mean, as far as any, any cool projects that you've worked on this year that you want to talk about or.
00;56;02;25 - 00;56;22;29
Chip Hurley
I've been doing quite a bit of stuff out of state, doing some site selection stuff for a lumber company that I've done work with for a while now. That's been a ton of fun. I the project's been in North Carolina, Mississippi and Oregon. Wow. So that's been go a little different gig for me, but I've been to an awful lot of tender stuff which I.
00;56;23;00 - 00;56;25;27
Max Grover
That's cool. Did you put a lot did you put a want out reason?
00;56;25;27 - 00;56;26;17
Chip Hurley
I did, yes.
00;56;26;17 - 00;56;27;21
Max Grover
Yeah. What was that for.
00;56;27;21 - 00;56;42;00
Chip Hurley
Yeah. So another talk about it. Yeah. No thank you for asking. So I have a client that is currently in the market. Actually, the parent company has two companies. Their sister companies got one. The one that.
00;56;42;01 - 00;56;46;17
Max Grover
How do you know that their sister company is not for other companies? Oh, okay. Before we dig into that, their.
00;56;46;17 - 00;56;47;22
Chip Hurley
Family companies, I.
00;56;47;27 - 00;56;48;06
Max Grover
Think.
00;56;48;06 - 00;57;13;02
Chip Hurley
That the one particular company has their own location in town about growing it to the point that they want two locations in town. So they have a requirement south of town about 75,000 square feet, give or take, for a distribution warehouse showroom. And then they have something north of town like the the Occupy, or at least find Occupy.
00;57;13;04 - 00;57;16;26
Max Grover
So that's how heavy trucking or not.
00;57;16;27 - 00;57;33;01
Chip Hurley
Well yeah they they do have customer pickup also they do some deliveries as well it's it's construction related materials that they they sell and they they have quite a few locations in the state but they're just busting at the seams with carpet.
00;57;33;01 - 00;57;35;08
Max Grover
Now looking for existing or.
00;57;35;10 - 00;57;56;18
Chip Hurley
They would do existing they would do build a suit. The parent company, they do have a history of owning. They also do leases. So we're open to all options at this point. They know how tight the market is. We're also looking for a very similar requirement to the northern Grand Rapids market, which is 35,000 square feet up in Traverse City.
00;57;56;20 - 00;58;14;22
Chip Hurley
Okay. So and again, historically, the suits have not been their forte just because of cost, but they know that they need to spend money, whether it's existing or build a suit, that they're going to look at all options at this point, which is which is great for me because I've been working on these guys for 20 years and historically they haven't been doing that.
00;58;14;22 - 00;58;17;08
Max Grover
I got to say, I want to talk to you about.
00;58;17;11 - 00;58;17;29
Chris Prins
After the fact.
00;58;18;04 - 00;58;19;19
Max Grover
That it or not.
00;58;19;21 - 00;58;26;11
Chris Prins
So when you go to like the Mississippi, the North Carolina, the Oregon, what do you typically go there yourself then?
00;58;26;15 - 00;58;27;03
Chip Hurley
I don't do.
00;58;27;03 - 00;58;30;01
Chris Prins
You kind of outsource that to? I grew up in Dallas. Like a lot of.
00;58;30;01 - 00;58;53;15
Chip Hurley
Times I use my as our network, so I'll kind of bird dog. A lot of times a little different than, well, I guess here maybe it can happen as well. Although I don't run with the ADCs that often. A lot of times we get the obviously the notification saying, hey, we're looking for this type of user. I'm on the back end of that right now.
00;58;53;15 - 00;59;15;16
Chip Hurley
These are the markets. So a lot of times EDC organizations in these areas actually own their own real estate. So I'm deal with them directly and so that they, you know, offer a finder's fee, if you will, our consulting fee. But if there's a listed property, then, you know, I definitely get brokers involved and get off the air.
00;59;15;22 - 00;59;27;12
Chip Hurley
You share the fee with them that way. So but there's a lot of data out there online. So I basically use the EDCs and online to find these sites.
00;59;27;14 - 00;59;32;21
Max Grover
When you do travel transition in this, do you bring your mountain bike?
00;59;32;21 - 01;00;02;07
Chip Hurley
I usually do. Typically, it has been to conferences a lot of times. Well, as I were in particular, every conference is a different location. So it's exciting for a lot of us to go to these conferences because you re connect with friends that you develop these relationships with over many years, but also you go to different locations. So like in the fall last year I was in Dallas and never been to Dallas, and so I did a lot of networking there.
01;00;02;07 - 01;00;22;15
Chip Hurley
But then afterwards I walked down and, you know, saw some historical things, you know, the Kennedy assassination, stuff like that, which, yeah, you learn about history, you know, you don't really know about. And until you get there and to be there and can understand the dynamics and the the geography and just how the whole thing happened, it was.
01;00;22;17 - 01;00;27;17
Max Grover
Want to make sure this one gets blocked. Do you think the CIA killed Kennedy? We were going to get the flag.
01;00;27;19 - 01;00;32;04
Chris Prins
Yeah. Remember, we're going to D.C. this weekend.
01;00;32;06 - 01;00;33;21
Max Grover
Guy. Not going to be a lot of them.
01;00;33;24 - 01;00;35;26
Chris Prins
But the guy was.
01;00;35;29 - 01;00;36;24
Chip Hurley
Over, I don't know, the next.
01;00;36;24 - 01;00;43;25
Max Grover
Year. And and I was going to try to bring the podcast up, too. Yeah. I'm getting flagged about security for sure.
01;00;44;01 - 01;00;50;12
Chip Hurley
Is that what that red button is on? Yeah. Let's take my name off.
01;00;50;15 - 01;00;54;27
Max Grover
Yeah, man. Yeah, I'm definitely going pat better down or whatever.
01;00;55;00 - 01;00;56;14
Chip Hurley
You go with sherry.
01;00;56;16 - 01;00;56;29
Chris Prins
Yeah.
01;00;57;01 - 01;00;58;11
Chip Hurley
Warm sherry with you.
01;00;58;14 - 01;00;59;26
Chris Prins
Yeah.
01;00;59;29 - 01;01;01;13
Chip Hurley
I take that loyalty. If she's getting patted.
01;01;01;13 - 01;01;06;21
Max Grover
Down, it's all going. Is me, you, Sherry and Tony. Tony on the Good Girl.
01;01;06;23 - 01;01;11;20
Chip Hurley
Yeah. Are you going to stand afterwards or beforehand that kind of sample?
01;01;11;20 - 01;01;20;04
Chris Prins
DC I'm not. I've been to DC a couple times. Yeah. Yeah, I like that place. I love all the museums and I just like the grace.
01;01;20;04 - 01;01;22;06
Chip Hurley
I'm a fan of the city for sure.
01;01;22;09 - 01;01;29;15
Max Grover
Yeah. Now, yeah, I'm sure we'll go out one night at least Ian's going to drag us out, so it'll be good fun.
01;01;29;18 - 01;01;30;29
Chip Hurley
Yes, I'm sure.
01;01;31;02 - 01;01;36;22
Max Grover
Yeah. So. But the mountain biking thing didn't wear you hurt last year doing this.
01;01;36;27 - 01;01;39;27
Chip Hurley
A couple of years ago. 20, 20.
01;01;39;29 - 01;01;40;26
Max Grover
Your arm fell off.
01;01;41;02 - 01;01;44;03
Chip Hurley
It. Did I reattached those backwards off? Yeah.
01;01;44;03 - 01;01;47;18
Max Grover
It doesn't work like that. Are you back and you bounce back?
01;01;47;18 - 01;01;58;06
Chip Hurley
Yeah. I've been cycling. It was actually towards end the season so I had winter to recover it all recover and recuperate. But yeah, that was not fun.
01;01;58;09 - 01;01;59;18
Max Grover
But what happened?
01;01;59;21 - 01;02;00;27
Chip Hurley
I fell, I fell off my.
01;02;00;27 - 01;02;03;25
Max Grover
Bike.
01;02;03;28 - 01;02;05;02
Chip Hurley
Going down, went boom.
01;02;05;02 - 01;02;06;24
Max Grover
So downhill.
01;02;06;26 - 01;02;16;06
Chip Hurley
We were actually northern Michigan big am I? And I was taking the trail too fast at a route. No friend washed out and I end up waking up on the ground, so.
01;02;16;09 - 01;02;19;07
Max Grover
Oh, my goodness. I didn't know that. Just your shoulder.
01;02;19;09 - 01;02;20;29
Chip Hurley
Yeah, it's just my shoulder. Yeah.
01;02;21;01 - 01;02;22;00
Max Grover
Actually, thankfully.
01;02;22;06 - 01;02;26;23
Chip Hurley
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I ended up wedged up against a tree and fortunate I didn't hit the tree.
01;02;26;23 - 01;02;30;04
Max Grover
So come one surgery.
01;02;30;06 - 01;02;42;19
Chip Hurley
One surgery, and then for the mountain bike. And then 90 days later, I was on the motorcycle with a client going through Canonsburg. In November, deer ran out in front of me and I took the deer out. We broke the ding.
01;02;42;19 - 01;02;45;06
Max Grover
Oh, my. How fast are you going?
01;02;45;09 - 01;02;53;06
Chip Hurley
I always been, but I had all my gear on. But yeah, we broke that clavicle. They had played in it, so they had to take everything out, redo the whole.
01;02;53;06 - 01;02;54;23
Max Grover
Thing shut, then.
01;02;54;25 - 01;02;56;27
Chris Prins
Hopefully discount from the surgeon.
01;02;56;27 - 01;03;02;20
Chip Hurley
Or I don't think I did know. It's like for what? We're charging a double. She has a second time you been in you?
01;03;02;20 - 01;03;05;11
Max Grover
Oh, my goodness. That had to be terrifying.
01;03;05;14 - 01;03;09;01
Chip Hurley
I woke up an ambulance said, Oh, really? Yeah. So I don't remember a thing.
01;03;09;02 - 01;03;11;10
Max Grover
Out called Toll was your bike. And yeah.
01;03;11;13 - 01;03;17;21
Chip Hurley
Fortunately somebody behind me watched the whole thing and called 911 immediately and, and I was picked up.
01;03;17;28 - 01;03;19;03
Max Grover
You wear a helmet. Yep.
01;03;19;03 - 01;03;19;26
Chip Hurley
I wore everything I have.
01;03;19;27 - 01;03;23;05
Max Grover
And you had the appropriate boots and.
01;03;23;07 - 01;03;24;19
Chip Hurley
They got them.
01;03;24;21 - 01;03;26;27
Max Grover
Leather chaps.
01;03;26;29 - 01;03;34;01
Chip Hurley
Last year, Max was riding a motorcycle.
01;03;34;03 - 01;03;49;12
Max Grover
Shirtless, and they chose no helmet, But I had to get help like the handlebar mustache. I can't. Girl. That told me that. But you're so you do you guys do like real estate club for motorcycle to Diane I.
01;03;49;12 - 01;04;04;24
Chip Hurley
Wouldn't say as a club but actually Brian flavor of the United Bank he knows in the last ten years of who rides and he rides he actually lives in my neighborhood so he always has a a little fun ride, either spring or fall, sometimes balls.
01;04;04;24 - 01;04;08;22
Max Grover
I was like, Let me find you a bike to buy. And I'm like, Fair price for.
01;04;08;26 - 01;04;13;05
Chris Prins
Sale. Yeah, Yeah. You got to pay for Amazon packages. Yeah.
01;04;13;08 - 01;04;14;22
Max Grover
Some of these your insurance.
01;04;14;22 - 01;04;16;22
Chip Hurley
Really? Well, yeah.
01;04;16;25 - 01;04;19;13
Max Grover
That's fun. How how big a group How many people?
01;04;19;15 - 01;04;28;09
Chip Hurley
It depends. I think typically when we do the lunch events as half dozen, typically we've had a group maybe 8 to 10 at one time.
01;04;28;14 - 01;04;29;23
Max Grover
And Kathy's in that too.
01;04;29;23 - 01;04;53;13
Chip Hurley
Yup, Kathy's in it. So it's typically an afternoon thing. So we'll meet at the bank, they'll do pictures, it's usually late morning, then we'll ride a couple of hours and grab a late lunch and then Ken Stein store, who is retired. But he used to be on the right too. He has a sweet tooth, so he'd always have to figure out how to stop and find a ice cream shack somewhere on my back.
01;04;53;13 - 01;04;58;26
Chip Hurley
So he we usually got lunch and an ice cream somewhere. So yeah, that's adorable.
01;04;58;28 - 01;05;01;14
Chris Prins
But find a local Dairy Queen or something.
01;05;01;16 - 01;05;13;13
Chip Hurley
As I was pretty cool. I think the last one I was on, we rode down towards Marshall, ended up doing the Black Horse Brewery, so we parked at Shires.
01;05;13;13 - 01;05;14;07
Chris Prins
That's a cool spot.
01;05;14;08 - 01;05;19;19
Chip Hurley
Yep. Walked down there and had a beer and then walked back, had lunch and no fights.
01;05;19;19 - 01;05;21;04
Max Grover
Nothing? No. Our fight.
01;05;21;06 - 01;05;22;01
Chip Hurley
No nothing.
01;05;22;03 - 01;05;23;06
Max Grover
Not to. So they're nice, but.
01;05;23;06 - 01;05;26;06
Chris Prins
They still have the mugs hanging up in there. Or you can.
01;05;26;08 - 01;05;27;02
Chip Hurley
I think so, yeah.
01;05;27;05 - 01;05;28;09
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah. That's a cold.
01;05;28;09 - 01;05;29;20
Chip Hurley
Spot. It's been a while.
01;05;29;23 - 01;05;36;00
Max Grover
And then the other. Cool thing that you do, you're also ski patrol for many years. Have you been there now?
01;05;36;00 - 01;05;41;20
Chip Hurley
Yes, I've been drawing at Crystal. This is, this is my 24th year. So the next year it'll be 25. I've been doing that.
01;05;41;23 - 01;05;42;21
Max Grover
Always at Crystal.
01;05;42;21 - 01;05;58;26
Chip Hurley
Yep, yep. Yeah. I'm a regional trainer, so I travel around throughout the season. I usually do early season training up at Highlands. Sometimes we'll do nubs and then I'll move around to maybe Carver Fair or Casper to do some stuff.
01;05;58;28 - 01;06;17;04
Max Grover
That and I told you this at the last meet and greet, but when we got off, I wish I remembered the guy's name, but we got up there and he's, he's probably in his seventies ski patrol like but they do the ed classes too or not. So they, they teach the kids how to ski and I walk. Oh, I.
01;06;17;04 - 01;06;19;06
Chip Hurley
Don't instruct kids. No. So you won't.
01;06;19;06 - 01;06;19;29
Max Grover
Do kids so.
01;06;19;29 - 01;06;25;05
Chip Hurley
I won't instruct skiing or snowboarding. I'll instruct first aid or toboggan.
01;06;25;05 - 01;06;41;04
Max Grover
Okay. Oh, okay. So this guy was doing a class and it was a six, five, six, five or six, five, four, and another four year old or something.
01;06;41;06 - 01;06;42;24
Chip Hurley
So his lower back is getting that work.
01;06;42;24 - 01;06;47;02
Max Grover
Like what walked up to this group. And he's like, Oh, all of them. I'm like.
01;06;47;08 - 01;06;48;17
Chip Hurley
Oh, these are kids, but.
01;06;48;18 - 01;07;10;10
Max Grover
It's one was a cousin, one was a cousin, and he just looks so panicked. He's like, This is going to be the worst day of my life. And then I told them, like, he's like, Do they ski ever? I'm like, now. But they they can skate. And he's like, Oh, thank God. I mean, one time up and down the magic carpet or whatever they call it, and they're they're good.
01;07;10;17 - 01;07;11;02
Chris Prins
Good to go.
01;07;11;06 - 01;07;11;17
Chip Hurley
Absolutely.
01;07;11;20 - 01;07;27;07
Max Grover
Yeah, That's awesome. Plus, I come from an athletic family. Yeah. Look at me. Yeah, it was very much red drip athleticism, so I'm sweating right now. They just got.
01;07;27;13 - 01;07;30;00
Chris Prins
Yeah. They get from their mother they get right.
01;07;30;03 - 01;07;37;14
Max Grover
Yeah. Yeah. Now that's cool. Any, any cool stories from that you want to share life saving.
01;07;37;14 - 01;07;38;07
Chip Hurley
Well we've done.
01;07;38;07 - 01;07;39;24
Max Grover
A jump and.
01;07;39;27 - 01;07;48;27
Chip Hurley
We do a little bit everything up there we've had I mean you get the hang nails, two very serious accidents up there. Sure. Which are not fun to deal with.
01;07;48;29 - 01;07;53;00
Max Grover
I can imagine. Soon as some of those people start drinking and stuff and.
01;07;53;02 - 01;08;17;07
Chip Hurley
Oh yeah, there's some craziness going that goes on typically, like I don't know what the holiday is called, but basically the Canadians, I don't know if it's boxing bears or whatever, but they come over on holiday and they are crazy. When one year we went out, we came. I guess it was a Sunday morning. We buttoned everything up for the night and somebody forgot to put the key to the snowmobile away.
01;08;17;09 - 01;08;24;11
Chip Hurley
Oh no, we came in the morning. We're like, Here's a snowmobile. We found it on one of the golf courses. It ran out of gas. Some of the.
01;08;24;13 - 01;08;25;18
Max Grover
Canadian guys.
01;08;25;20 - 01;08;28;29
Chip Hurley
Jumped on it with some cocktails and ran out of gas. So.
01;08;29;00 - 01;08;33;28
Chris Prins
So you just followed the footprints all the way to a snowmobile?
01;08;34;00 - 01;08;37;05
Max Grover
Anybody you saved in a heroic fashion.
01;08;37;07 - 01;08;41;01
Chip Hurley
As I've performed, I'm like on a couple of people.
01;08;41;03 - 01;08;50;09
Max Grover
I've got to learn how to do CPR on. We got one of those old things, but I need to learn CPR at the like. Yeah.
01;08;50;12 - 01;08;58;01
Chip Hurley
Well, yeah, the Red Cross is a great way to do that. I mean, particularly you with kids. Anybody with kids.
01;08;58;02 - 01;09;00;17
Max Grover
Let's do it. And Chris right now is showing.
01;09;00;19 - 01;09;06;07
Chip Hurley
Chris you can do the mouth smell. And I was in the chest.
01;09;06;09 - 01;09;14;18
Max Grover
A perfect that. I've been leading the conversation for the last hour to this point mouth to mouth everywhere he goes. I think.
01;09;14;18 - 01;09;16;29
Chip Hurley
The interview is over.
01;09;17;01 - 01;09;31;25
Max Grover
So I just started yeah. Oh that's cool. And then so you're doing ski patrol, but then in the summer, do you also go up there to mountain bikers? You just. Yeah. And then is that the same here.
01;09;31;27 - 01;09;35;23
Chip Hurley
It's primarily Midwest but then I'll, I'll do a strip.
01;09;35;29 - 01;09;39;10
Max Grover
Actually it mostly mountain bike as opposed to like road or.
01;09;39;10 - 01;09;50;14
Chip Hurley
Yeah I just, it's just way more fun for me. And then depending on how hot it is, if it's cool enough, I'll take a dog. Oh, I have a chocolate lab that loves to go mountain bike and so that's it. That's our exercise.
01;09;50;14 - 01;09;52;22
Chris Prins
Where's your favorite place? Mountain bike in Michigan.
01;09;52;25 - 01;10;16;02
Chip Hurley
Probably Arcadia. It's just Arcadia or Yankee Springs. Yankee Springs is pretty botanical. Arcadia, just beautiful this time of year. Typically mid-May, the Trillium are blooming in the morning or just in the day in general. So the whole forest floor is just alive, is beautiful. And then in the spring Morales as well. Yeah. So you get a couple of different things going up there, but it just flows nicely.
01;10;16;02 - 01;10;20;07
Chip Hurley
It's, it's a good way to check out, you know, you just are in the moment.
01;10;20;09 - 01;10;28;07
Max Grover
And yeah that's it that is I've mountain bike the couple times is not easy. Maybe those new e-bikes they've mountain bikes.
01;10;28;07 - 01;10;36;08
Chip Hurley
Don't be doing that. You're too young to be wearing one of a ride one of those. If you do, you better put those training wheels on. There's no way you should be on E-bike.
01;10;36;08 - 01;10;40;04
Max Grover
So what kind of bike? What's your set up?
01;10;40;06 - 01;11;01;14
Chip Hurley
I have a I guess it would be an ibis. It's a full mountain. Full suspension, all mountain bike. Then I end up finding a single shock or front shock bike which is called the Hardtail that I around here. That's not is is great for non technical stuff is a little bit more efficient. It's a lot lighter.
01;11;01;17 - 01;11;02;27
Max Grover
Now you're racing to.
01;11;02;27 - 01;11;12;20
Chip Hurley
I don't anymore now I just know it's a job to keep up with that. I mean the guys that are serious, they're doing 200 miles a week at the time of the day. So yeah.
01;11;12;22 - 01;11;16;08
Max Grover
You're just into like Armstrong, Yeah.
01;11;16;10 - 01;11;21;24
Chip Hurley
No, that's not me. So I go out a couple of times a week, three times a week just to kind of have fun.
01;11;21;28 - 01;11;22;17
Chris Prins
Stuff on, though.
01;11;22;17 - 01;11;24;00
Max Grover
Yeah, exactly. That's cool.
01;11;24;03 - 01;11;42;28
Chip Hurley
Yeah, because I don't like working out. And for me, it's. It's just a fun way to get out. I'm having fun and I get the benefit of exercise, and that's the only thing done as long as I've done it just to stay in shape. Yeah. Otherwise I get bored. I just. I just don't stick with it.
01;11;43;00 - 01;11;48;24
Max Grover
Hey, since I've known you, I feel like you guys are doing, like, cool trips or anything like that.
01;11;48;26 - 01;12;11;14
Chip Hurley
Yeah, I try to step over the common box and do stuff that's unique. So, like, last last fall, I went to Italy for Thanksgiving for two weeks. It was I don't know if I need to have a turkey in my life again because the food was spectacular and I've been overseas not to Europe, and it was just an eye opening experience for me.
01;12;11;14 - 01;12;14;07
Chip Hurley
So I think a lot more travel was going to be in my future for sure.
01;12;14;14 - 01;12;15;00
Chris Prins
That's cool.
01;12;15;03 - 01;12;15;26
Chip Hurley
Yeah.
01;12;15;28 - 01;12;22;14
Max Grover
And we're doing real estate and commercial real estate and all the technology advancements. Yeah, yeah. Pretty much.
01;12;22;14 - 01;12;24;13
Chris Prins
Now can do site selection over in Europe, right?
01;12;24;13 - 01;12;35;09
Chip Hurley
Absolutely. I'm not, you know, when I go out west, sometimes one of my bigger deals is six seven years ago I button it up was biking Utah. So as far.
01;12;35;11 - 01;12;36;23
Max Grover
Right on top of the hill.
01;12;36;25 - 01;12;41;04
Chip Hurley
I was in the campsite, but yeah, it was in my camper. That's cool. Cool. That's cool.
01;12;41;06 - 01;12;46;06
Max Grover
Yeah, very cool. Any last thoughts you want to Any questions you got.
01;12;46;06 - 01;12;48;03
Chris Prins
For closing the statement?
01;12;48;06 - 01;12;55;24
Max Grover
Closing statement? Goodbyes for young Broker or maybe fun story to leave us with or.
01;12;55;27 - 01;13;14;15
Chip Hurley
Well, I think from a starting in the industry perspective, you know, I think one of the things that benefited me the most was to do coursework. I came because that was not my background and you have yours. You working on yours?
01;13;14;17 - 01;13;15;26
Chris Prins
Take our class.
01;13;15;29 - 01;13;39;28
Chip Hurley
That's from my perspective. I was in the industry three years before I started taking the courses and then also start taking the courses and I was like, Aha, this is how you can put a deal together. This is why we do certain things. It it allowed me to think about deals in all different way. Yeah. And light. And then so, ah, for me, you know, from the volume perspective, it took a while to get there.
01;13;39;28 - 01;13;45;05
Chip Hurley
But it's just run networking aspect of this. That's where I get most of my referrals.
01;13;45;08 - 01;13;50;22
Max Grover
Have you and you spend, you spend most of your time with the CI or the CCI. But yeah.
01;13;50;23 - 01;13;53;06
Chip Hurley
Because it gets expensive if you're trying to do.
01;13;53;07 - 01;14;10;06
Max Grover
More than a 1 to 104 class. So I bought that core from the Kam is great if you're first starting out just to start learning the language and stuff, the answer is usually refi the property and buy another building. That's usually the answer.
01;14;10;09 - 01;14;12;12
Chip Hurley
For Max, and.
01;14;12;14 - 01;14;22;11
Max Grover
That's like the CSA. It's like multiple choice. Should I, should I pay the building off or should I refi and buy another one?
01;14;22;14 - 01;14;38;20
Chip Hurley
B So that benefited me immensely. I just understand and do deals. And then at the time I know how it all works now, but being that I had my seat, I am. I got credit for the education I r.
01;14;38;22 - 01;14;39;18
Max Grover
Oh, So.
01;14;39;21 - 01;14;41;14
Chip Hurley
I would guess you still get benefits when you.
01;14;41;14 - 01;14;47;28
Max Grover
Do. I just, I looked into the process and then I haven't started it. I said, yeah.
01;14;48;01 - 01;14;52;19
Chip Hurley
In order to do it, you'll need two letters of recommendation.
01;14;52;21 - 01;14;55;00
Max Grover
It's going to be tough. It's going to be tough. It's going to be the.
01;14;55;00 - 01;14;58;16
Chris Prins
Hardest part you're going to get. Those are drinking.
01;14;58;18 - 01;15;24;17
Chip Hurley
And there's some bribes going on. But that I think from a referral perspective, yeah, it's kind of like you get out what you put into it so you don't. And that's one of the things that I experienced. Yeah, exactly. And so somebody had called it was a retention call maybe a year after I got the designation. And I'm like, Are you seeing what you want to see out the the designation?
01;15;24;17 - 01;15;29;14
Chip Hurley
I'm like, not really. And then the point blank ask me, are you active?
01;15;29;21 - 01;15;30;05
Max Grover
Sure.
01;15;30;05 - 01;15;53;21
Chip Hurley
And and if you're not, they said, say no. But if you don't put anything into it, don't expect to phone during and conferences. And I didn't realize until I went to a couple of conferences on your bio and you look up my profile and now R it'll tell you all the conferences I've gone to. There are people out there that are active and so are they.
01;15;53;21 - 01;15;56;15
Chip Hurley
Look at that. I said no. And I was like, Oh, let's.
01;15;56;20 - 01;16;00;17
Max Grover
Make okay, this guy cares about this. I want to give back to it.
01;16;00;23 - 01;16;01;15
Chip Hurley
Exactly.
01;16;01;18 - 01;16;02;06
Max Grover
Very cool.
01;16;02;06 - 01;16;19;00
Chip Hurley
So, you know, it's a learning experience, but, you know, to have that and I think some people that you meet through these type of events become mentors, friends that, you know, if they've been in 20 years, you've been at ten, they have tidbits of information that you glean.
01;16;19;05 - 01;16;28;26
Max Grover
And from new broker perspective, it's going to be a lot easier to get your CCI based on deal volume and everything. Absolutely front end to do that.
01;16;28;26 - 01;16;39;00
Chip Hurley
Yeah, you don't have to be in the business certain amount of time to work on your I and you're aiming to be a broker. I mean you could be an attorney or CPA and still work towards that.
01;16;39;02 - 01;16;48;24
Max Grover
Which S-R has a dollar value of transactions brokerage wise that you have to do in volumes or industrial volumes. Yep.
01;16;48;26 - 01;16;50;25
Chip Hurley
And you have to be in the business minimum of five years.
01;16;50;27 - 01;16;53;02
Max Grover
Okay. Do you know what the volume is?
01;16;53;04 - 01;16;59;11
Chip Hurley
It's I believe if hasn't changed the gross volume is 300,000 for State of Michigan.
01;16;59;14 - 01;17;00;12
Max Grover
Oh, okay.
01;17;00;14 - 01;17;03;08
Chip Hurley
Yeah. So it's I think reasonable. Yeah.
01;17;03;10 - 01;17;09;05
Max Grover
Okay. That's for the air. Oh, you're fine. All right. What does that stand for again?
01;17;09;05 - 01;17;10;29
Chip Hurley
Society of Industrial and Office Realtors.
01;17;10;29 - 01;17;17;05
Max Grover
Yeah, and I've noticed more guys in town continue to get that. Like, I guess I've been or just got it.
01;17;17;05 - 01;17;18;23
Chip Hurley
It's just got it.
01;17;18;26 - 01;17;24;20
Max Grover
Shrank out of here before me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those guys are all working towards it. Come on, Chris, step up. Shane.
01;17;24;23 - 01;17;26;10
Chris Prins
I'll stick to ICAC. Yeah.
01;17;26;13 - 01;17;26;26
Max Grover
Yeah.
01;17;26;29 - 01;17;30;02
Chris Prins
You just got to show up there. Go to Vegas. Over. Yeah.
01;17;30;05 - 01;17;31;13
Max Grover
Tough life. Are you going?
01;17;31;17 - 01;17;33;05
Chris Prins
I'm not that this year We got a wedding.
01;17;33;10 - 01;17;36;02
Max Grover
Oh, that's right. You down to any. Just got new house.
01;17;36;08 - 01;17;37;13
Chris Prins
Just got new house.
01;17;37;15 - 01;17;41;06
Max Grover
Cool. Yeah right Yeah yeah. Christmas bond.
01;17;41;08 - 01;17;42;12
Chris Prins
Trying to try to keep up.
01;17;42;12 - 01;17;46;09
Max Grover
With you. Yeah. Goodness gracious.
01;17;46;09 - 01;17;47;09
Chip Hurley
So you don't have four kids?
01;17;47;09 - 01;17;50;01
Chris Prins
Do not. First of all, in August.
01;17;50;03 - 01;17;50;25
Chip Hurley
Oh, you're on the hill.
01;17;50;25 - 01;17;59;18
Max Grover
Behind you're on the way. He's got had it. I'm trying to play catch up. Yeah, he's younger than I. How old are you? The 32. 80. Okay. Yeah.
01;17;59;20 - 01;18;00;29
Chip Hurley
Just a couple of years.
01;18;01;02 - 01;18;04;11
Max Grover
Yeah, I'll be 35 this year. Who? No, man.
01;18;04;13 - 01;18;06;02
Chip Hurley
Yeah, Yeah. You might have a.
01;18;06;02 - 01;18;22;13
Max Grover
Greater hair, I think. Yeah, I. I think I saw one. Like, I think I'm like, on the side a little bit. I'm kind of excited about it, though. Looking forward to having the gray hair in me some. I can't grow the beard. No gray hair. You're not losing your hair.
01;18;22;13 - 01;18;22;25
Chris Prins
At least.
01;18;22;25 - 01;18;36;25
Max Grover
Right. That's not sensitive. Yeah, sensitive topic I like right here. I feel like it's getting a little light. Like. Like. But don't know if it's in my head either.
01;18;36;27 - 01;18;38;17
Chip Hurley
Just. It might just be. Just don't.
01;18;38;17 - 01;18;44;01
Max Grover
Go. I'm doing better than most people. All right? So.
01;18;44;04 - 01;18;47;25
Chip Hurley
Yeah. So it's like we all are. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01;18;47;27 - 01;18;50;12
Max Grover
Yeah. You get. You get good hair. Congrats.
01;18;50;14 - 01;18;51;08
Chip Hurley
Yeah.
01;18;51;11 - 01;19;02;06
Max Grover
Anything else that you want to leave us with before we sign off and find you on Signature's website? What's there? Do you know what their website is? Even? Or we can post and.
01;19;02;06 - 01;19;03;19
Chip Hurley
Say this your associates dot com.
01;19;03;21 - 01;19;09;16
Max Grover
Go and find you there and email and cell phone and call chip if you have any industrial.
01;19;09;20 - 01;19;10;08
Chip Hurley
And.
01;19;10;10 - 01;19;17;28
Max Grover
Office needs. He's also talked about that want that we're going to fill this right yeah you guys already lost that it'll.
01;19;17;28 - 01;19;19;14
Chris Prins
Be pending by the time is this.
01;19;19;17 - 01;19;29;25
Max Grover
Yeah yeah yeah exactly. I mean I'm going to pause the release of this Makes sense. Exactly. Yeah. So very cool.
01;19;29;27 - 01;19;30;21
Chris Prins
You. Thank you gentlemen.
01;19;30;22 - 01;19;31;23
Chip Hurley
And thanks for having me.
01;19;31;25 - 01;19;32;21
Max Grover
I appreciate you coming.
01;19;32;22 - 01;19;46;17
Chip Hurley
In on this one.