Chopping it up with one best friend (Trevor Petroelje) and one coworker (Jon Geenen)

Max & Chris host Jon, and Trevor as they gather for a lively conversation on the current commercial real estate (CRE) market. In this episode of "Chopping it Up with Friends," they discuss emerging trends, successful projects, and share personal stories from their own experiences. Get ready for a blend of industry insights and light-hearted banter as these friends navigate the world of CRE and have a great time doing it. Tune in for an entertaining and informative discussion that will leave you wanting more.

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;10;07

Ow, ow, ow, ow! All right.

00;00;10;10 - 00;00;27;13
Chris Prins
Welcome to episode number six for the Car West Michigan podcast. Changed it up a little bit. Got a couple different guests on today, Sarge. Yes. The first one was actually one of my coworkers as well, John Keenan from DA Commercial. So thanks, John, for joining us on the show today.

00;00;27;16 - 00;00;44;12
Max Grover
And then. No, no, no. I'm going to ensure Trevor first, Trevor truly partner with me, Mike's real estate development and long time friend and colleague and awesome person. Wow. Every week, Chris.

00;00;44;15 - 00;00;53;18
Chris Prins
Wow, I still like you. Josh You're not a friend or anything like that. Monday through Friday. Oh yeah.

00;00;53;22 - 00;00;54;26
Jon Geenen
I said no.

00;00;54;28 - 00;01;17;02
Max Grover
That this is going to be a fun podcast because we, we are all competitors but friends and we've done a lot of stuff together in the past, so kind of excited but a little bit nervous because they know too much about everyone in here, knows too much about me is not a good place to be.

00;01;17;04 - 00;01;21;16
Chris Prins
So the skeletons in the closet.

00;01;21;18 - 00;01;22;28
Jon Geenen
Lord in over your head. Too much?

00;01;23;02 - 00;01;24;22
Max Grover
Yeah, exactly.

00;01;24;24 - 00;01;28;29
Trevor Petroelje
Oh, man. Had John and I have known each other, too, since ten.

00;01;29;05 - 00;01;30;03
Jon Geenen
Yeah, forever.

00;01;30;03 - 00;01;31;16
Trevor Petroelje
Forever. So. It's so weird.

00;01;31;22 - 00;01;33;29
Chris Prins
Did you guys find school together then or what?

00;01;34;01 - 00;01;34;29
Jon Geenen
School and church.

00;01;34;29 - 00;01;37;14
Trevor Petroelje
School and church. Both grown up. I mean.

00;01;37;19 - 00;01;38;05
Jon Geenen
I'm.

00;01;38;08 - 00;01;40;15
Chris Prins
Only in Jenison, right?

00;01;40;17 - 00;01;41;02
Jon Geenen
Oh, Hudson.

00;01;41;02 - 00;01;41;23
Chris Prins
Potts.

00;01;41;26 - 00;01;42;26
Trevor Petroelje
Jacksonville. Yeah. Yeah.

00;01;43;04 - 00;01;48;20
Max Grover
You know, Unity Elementary School all the way up or. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.

00;01;48;21 - 00;01;49;26
Trevor Petroelje
John was a year older.

00;01;50;02 - 00;01;50;26
Jon Geenen
Yeah.

00;01;50;28 - 00;01;53;14
Trevor Petroelje
But, yeah. Elementary, middle school and high school.

00;01;53;19 - 00;02;01;18
Max Grover
He used to pick on you, put you in, locked all the time. Fire make you call and king John King. John.

00;02;01;20 - 00;02;05;23
Jon Geenen
John to the rescue. That was me in elementary school. That all that.

00;02;05;26 - 00;02;08;24
Trevor Petroelje
I don't think John had a mean board in him.

00;02;08;26 - 00;02;11;13
Jon Geenen
He does any horrible job.

00;02;11;15 - 00;02;14;01
Max Grover
I've seen it. He's been mean to me.

00;02;14;03 - 00;02;24;07
Jon Geenen
No, no, I'm at school. I was looking through goggles, man. I had these massive I put anyone in lockers.

00;02;24;09 - 00;02;41;28
Max Grover
So I guess to Sir Chris has an agenda printed. And of course, John brought on Trevor then. I didn't of what we were going to talk about. But I guess kind of let's just dive in a little bit into to John and where you started. And I eventually got into real estate.

00;02;42;00 - 00;02;44;05
Jon Geenen
Yeah. How far back do we go?

00;02;44;08 - 00;02;52;06
Max Grover
Well, with elementary school, I go to first time you you gave Trevor a wedgie?

00;02;52;09 - 00;03;16;16
Jon Geenen
No. So, um, I guess I'm a third generation realtor. I always like to start with that, I guess. But my path to becoming a realtor was a little bit winding, so I went to Calvin College. Always thought I was gonna get into finance. Really wanted to get. I had an internship lined up at Merrill Lynch and the stock market fell apart.

00;03;16;18 - 00;03;34;07
Jon Geenen
So end up working construction that summer building subways. And that's how I met a subway franchise owner. And he's like, Hey, he's like, What are you doing after college? I'm like, There are no prospects right now. So I'm like, Yeah, happy to come work for you at Subway, Become a manager.

00;03;34;07 - 00;03;35;10
Max Grover
Here was a.

00;03;35;13 - 00;03;36;16
Jon Geenen
28.

00;03;36;18 - 00;03;37;21
Max Grover
Okay.

00;03;37;23 - 00;04;09;26
Jon Geenen
So, um, so initially I started out working for this guy for a couple of summers while I was in college and throughout college and then became a subway franchisee owner and then eventually bought into Big B as well. And then did that for a few years, learned I, I was it was good job, but it wasn't a good fit for a young family like you were always working like you always getting calls from your employees and people coming in and no one wants to work holidays, right?

00;04;09;26 - 00;04;28;26
Jon Geenen
So you work every single holiday. Yeah. So wasn't a great fit when I had a young family, so I wanted to make a switch and then eventually asked my dad, I'm like, Hey, I'm like, I want to get commercial real estate. I can work for you. And he's like, No way, I want to do that. He's like, is like, you know, he's like, he's like, You want to do it.

00;04;28;26 - 00;04;47;01
Jon Geenen
But he's like, Find out if you like it first before you commit to something that you know you have no way out. So he's like, Go work for One of the bigger firms out there was like, apply to Collier's applied and you know, fill it out, see if you like it. So that's what I did. And another Collier's with Chris.

00;04;47;04 - 00;04;53;00
Jon Geenen
It was great. I ended up absolutely loving it. Yeah, That's how I got to.

00;04;53;03 - 00;04;57;20
Chris Prins
Realize how many big B's and subways did you own at one point? What was the largest?

00;04;57;22 - 00;05;08;06
Jon Geenen
Yeah, so I. I managed seven subways and then two big BS, but I only had ownership in four of the subways. And then the two big B's.

00;05;08;06 - 00;05;08;24
Chris Prins
The two big.

00;05;08;27 - 00;05;14;25
Max Grover
Was there one that you like managing better than the other or.

00;05;14;27 - 00;05;41;00
Jon Geenen
Well, Metro Hospital Subway was one that I started from the ground up. So that one I kind of liked, I don't know if I liked it more, but I felt like more attached to it because the other ones I kind of thought into, whereas that one, like, you know, from construction all the way, all the way up, but, but I did love Big B coffee a time like it's such a great concept and like, the franchisees are like all good friends.

00;05;41;02 - 00;05;42;10
Jon Geenen
Yeah. So that was a.

00;05;42;10 - 00;05;47;07
Max Grover
Time I've dealt with some of those, some of the big B guys too, and they've been they've always been great to work with.

00;05;47;11 - 00;05;49;08
Jon Geenen
Yeah, yeah, they're a great group, guys.

00;05;49;11 - 00;06;00;16
Max Grover
So and so you built, you started on brand and then sold them all. But for the age of what.

00;06;00;18 - 00;06;14;20
Jon Geenen
Are like I saw them in 2016 and I'm 35 now. So yeah, I think I started, I started when I was 20 and I think I saw them all by the age of 30 or 29. Yeah.

00;06;14;22 - 00;06;27;16
Max Grover
So yeah, it's such a good life experience. That's so many people to start, start it, run them and then sell them. See that whole cycle of the businesses?

00;06;27;19 - 00;06;30;12
Trevor Petroelje
That's awesome. The operations, the people I mean.

00;06;30;16 - 00;06;59;06
Jon Geenen
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I mean, now when you're talking to a lot of people in the restaurant industry, like they all say staffing, staffing, staffing, staffing. Well, when I started in 2008, we had applicants. We had stacks of applications, right? Like you could choose whoever you wanted to hire. You know, by the time I left in 2016, like you were hiring, like you'd have like three people to choose from and you'd hire two of them because you're like, I didn't have to have more people, which you could.

00;06;59;09 - 00;07;07;19
Jon Geenen
I mean, you still would get good people, but a lot of times it was like, you're not you're not picking and choosing anymore. So. Right. And I think it's only gotten harder since.

00;07;07;20 - 00;07;13;05
Max Grover
Yeah, well, I mean, you drive by pretty much any fast food or quick service chain right now. And there's a sign that we're hiring.

00;07;13;05 - 00;07;13;28
Trevor Petroelje
Hiring now. Yeah.

00;07;14;05 - 00;07;20;25
Jon Geenen
Yeah. So I'm glad I got out when I did because it sounds like it's only gotten more difficult. So perhaps all the people in the food industry for sure.

00;07;21;01 - 00;07;45;00
Max Grover
But it's got to be such a grind and it's so competitive. And and we were talking to even before we started the podcast like and we didn't really get into this aspect of it, but how like some a brand catches fire and grows like crazy, but then, you know, some taper and lose that too. And so it's it the food industry, it has to be the hardest.

00;07;45;00 - 00;07;45;26
Max Grover
Yeah.

00;07;45;28 - 00;07;47;05
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. Very difficult.

00;07;47;07 - 00;07;51;07
Jon Geenen
Yeah, definitely seems like a difficult, difficult industry and.

00;07;51;09 - 00;07;56;06
Max Grover
Not not quite as hard as broker. No broker, just.

00;07;56;09 - 00;07;57;22
Chris Prins
Most underpaid too, by the.

00;07;57;22 - 00;07;58;25
Max Grover
Way, you know.

00;07;58;28 - 00;08;11;13
Jon Geenen
But even I'll say like I was a franchisee owner, right? So like, I had training wheels on, like I didn't have to recreate the wheel. They're like, This is your menu. Menu. This is like how you hire.

00;08;11;15 - 00;08;12;02
Trevor Petroelje
Right?

00;08;12;04 - 00;08;19;02
Max Grover
All the processes of how you prep make or sell exact systems in place. So I.

00;08;19;05 - 00;08;38;16
Jon Geenen
I can't even imagine how hard it is to start a restaurant from the ground up. You know, your own concept and your own menu and have to work through all that. Like props to those people. I mean, that's got to be that's a difficult road to walk. But sure, obviously, if it's successful, like I've seen, people are massively successful in it too.

00;08;38;16 - 00;08;55;18
Chris Prins
So yeah. And then so your dad kind of told you to go interview with some of the bigger brokerage firms. What was his guidance on that? Why or why didn't especially with him being the second generation realtor, why didn't he just take you under his wings and say, okay, I'll take you through the ropes and show you everything?

00;08;55;21 - 00;09;14;05
Jon Geenen
I think it was because, you know, it was partially a family business. And I think his thought process was, well, if you get to the family business like you're in it and if you don't like it, that's the rest of your life. So I think that was part of it. And then I think the other part.

00;09;14;07 - 00;09;16;06
Max Grover
Sink or swim on your own a little bit was.

00;09;16;06 - 00;09;33;27
Jon Geenen
Yeah, you know, figure it out for for yourself. And my dad's a great been a great mentor for me and a great teacher, but he's just one person, right? So it's like get some experience from other people and learn from some other people besides just hearing everything from one source.

00;09;33;29 - 00;09;47;15
Max Grover
So I don't he, I don't know how many people know this, but his license technically was held with Arnold. Grover. Yeah, he was going to join the other brokerage. You would have had to join B and Grover.

00;09;47;15 - 00;09;51;17
Jon Geenen
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And before he was that Grover.

00;09;51;17 - 00;09;51;28
Max Grover
He was.

00;09;51;28 - 00;09;53;15
Jon Geenen
That he was that DA.

00;09;53;20 - 00;09;55;01
Max Grover
So power of the DA.

00;09;55;03 - 00;09;55;29
Jon Geenen
That's right.

00;09;56;04 - 00;10;01;23
Max Grover
So power, the power of the DA. That's what they're always. Yeah. Yeah.

00;10;01;25 - 00;10;04;15
Jon Geenen
So yeah, that's my story.

00;10;04;17 - 00;10;06;26
Max Grover
All right. Podcast over together.

00;10;06;28 - 00;10;07;24
Chris Prins
Nice guys.

00;10;07;26 - 00;10;15;19
Max Grover
Yeah. Now, Trevor kind of jump in back and your path has been different than. Yeah. Even any of the three of us. Yeah.

00;10;15;22 - 00;10;19;15
Trevor Petroelje
Different paths. And I'm kind of both of you to, you know, starting out, you.

00;10;19;16 - 00;10;21;18
Max Grover
Had to pull the mike closer, so.

00;10;21;20 - 00;10;26;13
Chris Prins
So you take it from when you walked outside the locker after John stopped you.

00;10;26;15 - 00;10;51;07
Trevor Petroelje
You finally got out of the lot. Is a rough, rough time. No. After high school and CC, I did that route, got my associates there and then kind of got into the workforce working full time in construction, physical labor, doing that thing. And then I did a adult night program at Big Rapids, four or four at Ferris. Yeah, at the Garden Rapids campus here.

00;10;51;10 - 00;11;25;11
Trevor Petroelje
And did that for six or seven years working through the construction management program at Ferris. Well, kind of being in construction, did that get hired by a local subcontractor to do kind of like small project Canadian project management for structural miscellaneous steel, very boring kind a, you know, part of the construction process, but started doing that and then kind of involved into doing a little bit of BD And the goal is to always work like a big GC or CM pioneer.

00;11;25;11 - 00;12;06;14
Trevor Petroelje
How is that? Pioneer was a great company, the best in Grand Rapids. I always thought growing up, I like those. That's, you know, something like that and got hired by a small contractor seem, you know, enjoyed that some project management there started doing business development found had a knack for that And then Eric Finnegan our partner at Moxy with Max and I kind of started you know bringing me is showing me the ropes in the development side and kind of how that transaction looks, you know, from the real estate or from the development side, from the real estate all the way through it and the construction, the lease up stabilization.

00;12;06;14 - 00;12;31;01
Trevor Petroelje
And he can open my eyes to that whole world. And and I really liked it. I always, you know, kind of like John Finance or construction management, those are the two kind of paths that I was looking at and want to see them seem past. But really like the numbers side of like how that looks and, and kind of started getting into that development through Eric and got my real estate license.

00;12;31;01 - 00;13;03;10
Trevor Petroelje
And then we did a real estate development in my hometown in Hudson with Baldwin 36 with a good friend of ours, Nate Harbaugh. And that was my first kind of full cycle and kind of, you know, we Nick got the land, you know, started developing in site planning approval, the site entitlements. Eric and I were doing the listings, trying to find tenants before our building is off, you know, So we got 50% tenants signed up, did the construction of the building, which is fun.

00;13;03;13 - 00;13;22;12
Trevor Petroelje
You know first tenants in we had the other two one came on during construction and one within three months of, of the building being finished. We had completely full built building three months after being finished and kind of just seen the fun of all the way through. Then helping the tenants, you get relationships with them and kind of what their business looks like.

00;13;22;12 - 00;13;39;21
Trevor Petroelje
You get a kind of look at what they're doing, how they're making money, kind of just the whole dynamic of it was fun to kind of see that. And so that kind of open my eyes. And now here we are kind of doing that on a daily basis. And I mean, that's it's a lot of fun.

00;13;39;21 - 00;13;46;10
Chris Prins
Yeah. Were you ever interested in like the residential side from a construction standpoint? Were you always focused on more of the commercial aspect?

00;13;46;12 - 00;14;06;28
Trevor Petroelje
I like the commercial more, but like the home building, the single family, especially now we're getting into development. I mean, it's it's with the little bit of land that we have left and how to develop and how best to develop it. I mean, there's a lot of it's fun, but the kind of construction side commercial was always kind of where I, you know, I enjoyed it more towards it.

00;14;06;28 - 00;14;14;18
Max Grover
Yeah. Yeah. And, and you kind of grew up around that to the commercial side of it and seeing those projects and everything to and yeah.

00;14;14;20 - 00;14;31;05
Trevor Petroelje
I grew up, my dad was a site superintendent and then a project manager. So I remember going to job sites when I was little and kind of seeing stuff as it was built. So that was, I think kind of it spurred my interest plans, you know, building plans on the table, you know, at home, you know, kind of So I kind of grasp it and enjoy it.

00;14;31;05 - 00;14;32;24
Trevor Petroelje
And that was that was fun.

00;14;32;26 - 00;14;56;27
Max Grover
And I don't want to throw you under the bus, like talking about, but with like, I remember a conversation that you had with yourself when and I can't remember where you were at at the time that you told me about, Were you, like working an hourly job and you're like, I'm only going to make this amount of money this year and planning that out and putting your I don't know if you're, but do you know what I'm talking about?

00;14;57;00 - 00;15;00;19
Max Grover
You tell us or. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry to tell.

00;15;00;21 - 00;15;26;21
Trevor Petroelje
You know, it was it was at the subcontractor of A&M Ironworks Great guys over there. Yeah. And so just sitting there one day and thank you like 24, I think we had just had our first kid, my wife and I, Kennedy, who's ten now, so crazy. She just turned to go like she's like that. But and just sitting there thinking, you know, if you get the standard 3% annual.

00;15;26;21 - 00;15;27;28
Max Grover
Rate, that's Yeah.

00;15;28;00 - 00;15;35;26
Trevor Petroelje
And you get a promotion in five years and that's a 15% pay bump. And kind of what that looks like in the cost of stuff, I'm like this.

00;15;35;28 - 00;15;36;08
Jon Geenen
Like.

00;15;36;08 - 00;16;03;18
Trevor Petroelje
This is hard. This is, this is this, isn't this you going to be a grind? Yeah. How do you do it? You know, we want to have kids, you know, And so just, you know, and I'm very go, go, go type person. I can outside the box don't like kind of I don't like being stuck in parameters like this is how it is, but sort of kind of like, hey, I got to do something about this and kind of start thinking and working your way through to try and keep and keep going and try and make it because.

00;16;03;18 - 00;16;30;04
Max Grover
It's in actually doing it right. Like, yeah, I'm going to go be okay now I'm going to do the general contracting for a commercial side, you know, and doing that. But then it's like, hey, like there's also opportunity in the business development side. Like I don't have to just be a project manager and growing and pushing into that and right meeting Eric and touching that portion of the real estate and being like, Oh, this is there's more to this even yet, You know, jumping in that way is pretty cool.

00;16;30;06 - 00;16;48;14
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah, No, it's, it was, it was a lot of fun. And I mean, I'm very thankful to all the people along the way that helped me and gave me opportunities to tend to do something new or I hadn't done this before. Like, Hey, here, go try and see Run, You know, see? So very thankful for all those, all those people and just giving me the chance.

00;16;48;14 - 00;16;58;14
Trevor Petroelje
And now here we are. I mean, Adam podcast like this is crazy. This got him into elementary school where they ask a friend to like it's it's crazy. It's just.

00;16;58;14 - 00;16;58;24
Chris Prins
So on.

00;16;58;28 - 00;16;59;12
Max Grover
Yeah yeah.

00;16;59;18 - 00;17;00;15
Trevor Petroelje
For fun I think.

00;17;00;15 - 00;17;21;24
Chris Prins
We've heard on so many of our podcasts that we've done about the whole like mentorship position and mentorship role. Just bring someone underneath you to help you and say, Hey, I'll kind of teach you the ropes. Something like Eric kind of helped you. Yeah, I think that's so influential. I think that's something special that kind of West Michigan has in general too, of we have some very, very experienced, very good developers, brokers, whatever it be.

00;17;21;26 - 00;17;26;09
Chris Prins
I can say, okay, hey, I see the next generation coming up. Let me teach them what I've learned so far.

00;17;26;15 - 00;17;37;26
Max Grover
Yeah. So who is who is that guy for you, Donna? Into real estate. Besides, your dad obviously didn't even want to deal with you.

00;17;37;28 - 00;17;39;25
Jon Geenen
Know, I think my dad did actually play.

00;17;39;25 - 00;17;52;09
Max Grover
A major role. I don't know. We can edit this out, too, if we need to, but I just saw that your dad is not a Grover anymore either.

00;17;52;12 - 00;17;55;17
Jon Geenen
Yeah, he's trying to retire. He's picked up golf.

00;17;55;20 - 00;18;02;04
Max Grover
There's no way I saw. I saw this. I was like, There's no way he's going to retire. He's got way too much energy.

00;18;02;11 - 00;18;08;16
Jon Geenen
Yeah, he has a ton of energy, but luckily I have three kids to keep him busy. My sister has three kids that keep him busy.

00;18;08;18 - 00;18;12;10
Max Grover
Picked up golf.

00;18;12;12 - 00;18;23;06
Jon Geenen
And yeah, I honestly, he didn't golf a ton before the last couple of years, but this year I got him all golf gifts for Father's Day. It was awesome. So much easier to shop for.

00;18;23;09 - 00;18;50;13
Max Grover
I think I So I have the misfortune of being a hockey player and a real estate broker. And so like, everyone's like, Oh, this guy's going to be good at golf for sure. Going to be good to go. And then I, I got Trevor's brought me out to his league a couple of times. I think I hold the record of DNF, which is did not finish double and double double pass.

00;18;50;14 - 00;18;55;07
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. I think you I think they had two or three on one day, so that wasn't bad.

00;18;55;10 - 00;19;04;06
Max Grover
It was a good year. I had a birdie, I did have a birdie, I had a birdie par four and I finished my putt. They gave me the putt. I was like, No, no.

00;19;04;09 - 00;19;15;03
Jon Geenen
I got off to you before and you were golfing with one hand. You had the other hand on your phone texting, try to finish up a deal. You had service, That's all. You get time.

00;19;15;05 - 00;19;33;10
Max Grover
Off? Yeah. We were out at pilgrims, right? Yeah. Oh, pilgrims are beautiful. Horrible service, horrible service. I always dread going out to pilgrims, to Mike. I know. Once I get past, like, the first hole, I have zero service. Yeah, every crazy.

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00;20;03;17 - 00;20;21;17
Jon Geenen
In terms of mentorship, obviously I went to Collier's to start and there's a great team I was in. I was in retail. It was a great team set up there. Yep. So Mark and Sarah and Mike, Mary and Earl and Chris were really, really the team that I walked into and I learned a lot from all of them actually.

00;20;21;17 - 00;20;38;19
Jon Geenen
So Mike's more on the tenant rep side, so he kind of showed me the ropes on that. Yeah, Mark's more of a landlord rep kind of guy. Chris just broke and hustles like crazy. And when I started, you know, I mean, there's some questions that you don't want to ask somebody who's been in the business for ten years.

00;20;38;21 - 00;20;44;21
Jon Geenen
So like, I'd go, like if I had a silly question, I would ask Chris because he's not going to make me feel bad about it.

00;20;44;24 - 00;20;47;17
Chris Prins
I'm trying to figure it out. At the same point.

00;20;47;19 - 00;20;58;21
Max Grover
I would get off the phone with somebody and they'd talk. I can't even think of an example of a word. They would say something and then I would be on Google or try to figure out.

00;20;58;24 - 00;21;16;25
Jon Geenen
Looking through like even from different state to state, like there's different terminology for stuff, right? So like some people would say, Oh, well, I well, you're in that. Or to me you're like, Oh, I think those are the same thing. But let me Google make sure, you know, before I answer. I'm like when you're first getting into it.

00;21;16;28 - 00;21;35;07
Max Grover
But especially in retail, in my mind, where it's like QSR or like every restaurant has an A for you, God forbid you say the full name of the restaurant so-and-so initials is interested in this site. The near like I have to think I have the right to be.

00;21;35;07 - 00;21;37;01
Jon Geenen
Yeah, exactly.

00;21;37;04 - 00;22;03;06
Max Grover
But no. And that's especially for retail though, like for industrial, which is inland, which is a lot of what I've done in the past and I mean I've done a lot of everything, but that's kind of where I started. That's very local and, and with the exception, I mean, if you get in the really big stuff, but for retail, it's almost all drive through national retailers, right?

00;22;03;06 - 00;22;11;25
Max Grover
Yeah. So there is that people coming in from other markets a lot more in that sector than probably any other I would think.

00;22;11;28 - 00;22;25;17
Chris Prins
Yeah, it's kind of similar to what Trevor talks about too with having the relationships most of the time in retail, you don't do one deal, just stop. It's okay. Well, I want four or five stores in the market right now. Just continue to build a relationship with them throughout the years.

00;22;25;20 - 00;22;45;17
Max Grover
Yeah, Yeah. We were talking about car washes actually, and like how the new model is really, you know, these membership, the membership drive. And it's like, okay, well, if you're going to go out and open one car wash, is that really beneficial to the market or do you really probably need to like do four or five to make it beneficial for the membership?

00;22;45;17 - 00;22;50;16
Max Grover
And that gets pretty daunting for people, I would think, at what's a what's a new car wash.

00;22;50;16 - 00;22;59;26
Trevor Petroelje
I think they're saying five or 6 million all in the equipment and construction land. I mean, that's it. I mean, how do you have to do a handful I think, in a market to kind of test it, feel it.

00;22;59;26 - 00;23;02;09
Chris Prins
I mean yeah, that's per site right?

00;23;02;11 - 00;23;02;18
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah.

00;23;02;24 - 00;23;06;09
Max Grover
Say yeah and that's not even land isn't even land.

00;23;06;09 - 00;23;15;13
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. I don't know. It might be land but Yeah. The 5 to 6 I mean all and Yeah. Equipments you know, nine and a half, 2 million, couple million in construction and then the land.

00;23;15;13 - 00;23;25;22
Max Grover
Yeah. So how many. What's, what's the debt. Let's do that right now. What's the debt on 7 million I think.

00;23;25;22 - 00;23;26;11
Trevor Petroelje
Six.

00;23;26;13 - 00;23;43;11
Max Grover
6 million. Yeah. Let's do still 6 million and they're going to put 20% down to 1.26 and a half. They got a decent lender.

00;23;43;14 - 00;23;45;04
Chris Prins
Still looking for a sponsor, by the way.

00;23;45;04 - 00;23;47;02
Jon Geenen
Yeah.

00;23;47;05 - 00;23;55;00
Max Grover
Yeah, we are. I was I was given this off sale to Brian Claver at United. I didn't ask for it yet that.

00;23;55;03 - 00;23;55;29
Chris Prins
This could be a.

00;23;56;01 - 00;23;56;21
Max Grover
Good.

00;23;56;23 - 00;23;58;07
Jon Geenen
I'll make sure he listens to that.

00;23;58;10 - 00;24;03;00
Max Grover
$35,000 a month. Wow. And debt service.

00;24;03;02 - 00;24;06;29
Chris Prins
And your average membership. 30 bucks a month.

00;24;07;02 - 00;24;13;11
Max Grover
Yeah. So, I mean, you need 11, 1200 cars.

00;24;13;13 - 00;24;15;08
Trevor Petroelje
1200 members.

00;24;15;11 - 00;24;16;06
Chris Prins
To a.

00;24;16;09 - 00;24;18;14
Jon Geenen
It's a lot.

00;24;18;17 - 00;24;24;23
Trevor Petroelje
I wonder how much I wonder what the breakdown of monthly subscriptions to paying the single costs is. I mean, that.

00;24;24;26 - 00;24;27;21
Chris Prins
Is single cost is like, what, 20 bucks? Yeah.

00;24;27;23 - 00;24;30;19
Trevor Petroelje
I wonder what what the breakdown of that is.

00;24;30;21 - 00;24;39;23
Max Grover
That's fair And I so I have a membership and I haven't used it and like them because I got rear ended. So then I have my.

00;24;39;23 - 00;24;42;06
Jon Geenen
Card and you.

00;24;42;08 - 00;24;53;05
Max Grover
Know do I drive a lot? I drive a lot. So yeah, I got rear ended by a girl. I was sitting at a red light just minding my own business. There's not a car.

00;24;53;05 - 00;24;55;04
Trevor Petroelje
He thought that he was going to run it first.

00;24;55;10 - 00;25;19;11
Max Grover
I was sitting at this red light up on Plainfield. I actually drove by the building. I was going to go to circle back around, sitting at a red light. There's no one around. It's a three intersections, a three lane, whatever. However you want to say that there's only three, Turns out for three. Thank you. That's what I'm looking for.

00;25;19;13 - 00;25;42;18
Max Grover
Sitting there, red light, minding my own business, had a car in the world. I'm like, This is the dumbest light I've ever been at. I'm like, I'm running this thing. And then I'm like, checking my mirrors. I see a car way back there. I'm like, Dang it, maybe it's a cop. I'll just wait. Big mistake. Big mistake. The girl just smoked.

00;25;42;24 - 00;26;05;09
Max Grover
I'm just sitting there. She smoked me, and then she comes out crying and I'm like, What? Like you're fine. No one's hurt. It's not that big of a deal. It's a car. But now my right side of my car is like, flapping in the wind to appointments and then the car before that that John's bringing up. I got T-boned by it or I T-boned the car.

00;26;05;11 - 00;26;19;10
Max Grover
But it was her fault. She did a U-turn, an intersection to go north. We're both having so many intersection turns or right in front of me just head north. If I did that, I would go to jail.

00;26;19;10 - 00;26;21;27
Chris Prins
Yeah, Throw away the key. I'm asking you.

00;26;21;27 - 00;26;26;02
Max Grover
To do a U-turn, but intersection right in front of a cop.

00;26;26;09 - 00;26;33;13
Jon Geenen
At least it wasn't a nice car. It's only Maserati.

00;26;33;15 - 00;26;34;04
Max Grover
That.

00;26;34;06 - 00;26;38;08
Jon Geenen
Used to be Maserati, Max. Now it's just a janky activity.

00;26;38;08 - 00;26;52;15
Max Grover
Bumper Where did he get that car? Oh, yeah. I was going to bring up something else, but I can't remember what it was. It doesn't matter.

00;26;52;18 - 00;26;56;06
Chris Prins
Ah, again. Let's see. Let's hear some notable deals you've worked on.

00;26;56;08 - 00;26;56;29
Max Grover
Oh.

00;26;57;02 - 00;27;03;14
Chris Prins
Give us some fun ones, because I feel like you've been part of some really, really kind of cool deals. But maybe give us all like, top to top three.

00;27;03;16 - 00;27;05;08
Jon Geenen
Yeah.

00;27;05;10 - 00;27;06;14
Max Grover
Flex. Honest. John.

00;27;06;14 - 00;27;07;00
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;27;07;02 - 00;27;08;23
Max Grover
Yeah.

00;27;08;25 - 00;27;26;18
Jon Geenen
All right. Well, the one that I'm probably having the most fun with right now was a it was a high risk, high reward deal where it was at Rivertown Crossing Mall. Actually actually just listed at about three weeks ago. The Yonkers box.

00;27;26;18 - 00;27;29;18
Max Grover
Yeah. Why are you paying it green?

00;27;29;20 - 00;27;34;17
Jon Geenen
This is like an earth. Don't look, my client loves paint. Know?

00;27;34;20 - 00;27;43;20
Max Grover
I'm just kidding. John brought this up. I talked to John about it, and he talked about the paid for, like, 5 minutes. So that's all he was.

00;27;43;23 - 00;27;51;19
Jon Geenen
And they always had I looking fantastic like his self-storage up on Plainfield. Like that building looks real nice. Obviously Devine owns it now, but.

00;27;51;21 - 00;27;53;29
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah. Donut shop. Yeah.

00;27;53;29 - 00;27;55;25
Jon Geenen
They all end up looking really, really well when he's done.

00;27;55;25 - 00;27;57;06
Max Grover
So he does a great job. Yeah.

00;27;57;06 - 00;27;59;11
Jon Geenen
Yeah, he makes things look great.

00;27;59;14 - 00;28;05;13
Max Grover
I like how he even like we went there. The one in Muskegon that he was doing.

00;28;05;18 - 00;28;07;17
Jon Geenen
Yeah. On his box there. No, no, no.

00;28;07;17 - 00;28;08;19
Max Grover
Not the Yonkers.

00;28;08;21 - 00;28;10;06
Jon Geenen
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;28;10;10 - 00;28;11;15
Max Grover
I think Prestige bought it.

00;28;11;15 - 00;28;11;29
Jon Geenen
Yes.

00;28;12;03 - 00;28;21;03
Max Grover
Yeah. And I just like the simple little touches where, like, he paints all the, like, paints of water mains. He paints the gas lines, different.

00;28;21;03 - 00;28;22;04
Trevor Petroelje
Colors, fire suppression, fire.

00;28;22;08 - 00;28;23;20
Jon Geenen
Suppression that. Yeah. So you can make.

00;28;23;21 - 00;28;24;00
Max Grover
It looks.

00;28;24;00 - 00;28;29;10
Jon Geenen
Clean. You're not just looking up at a bunch of gray pipes like, you know what each pipe does. So yeah, it's pretty amazing.

00;28;29;12 - 00;28;31;18
Max Grover
He's, he's an interesting guy. He's awesome.

00;28;31;21 - 00;28;36;01
Jon Geenen
Yeah. And I think a lot of people when they walk in, they really respect it because they're like, Wow.

00;28;36;04 - 00;28;37;00
Trevor Petroelje
So what's going on?

00;28;37;02 - 00;28;38;24
Chris Prins
Yeah, Yeah. So. Well, how.

00;28;38;28 - 00;28;40;02
Jon Geenen
About come together?

00;28;40;05 - 00;28;45;09
Max Grover
So John's converting it into a condo for himself.

00;28;45;11 - 00;28;48;08
Jon Geenen
Upstairs is going to be my living space.

00;28;48;11 - 00;28;50;15
Max Grover
All sorts of activities.

00;28;50;17 - 00;29;17;16
Jon Geenen
No. So it's about a year and a half of talking to Brookfield. They traditionally don't sell their anchors because malls haven't really had to do that in the past, historically. And then, you know, Kobe came along and a bunch of other, you know, all the Amazon buy online. So so these Yonkers boxes went out and the mall at Rivertown bought it back and they were going to do a deal themselves, right?

00;29;17;16 - 00;29;38;01
Jon Geenen
They're going to lease it out, which they're good at. But then COVID hit and they were like, well, it'd be really nice if somebody else just picked this box up and paid for all the tie and put some a nice in there for us and we don't have to worry about it. So that's the argument that I was making to them for a year and a half before they finally agreed to sell it.

00;29;38;01 - 00;29;56;05
Jon Geenen
So took a year and a half, whereas the whole time, like there was no promises made, like I was spending like 10 hours a week and just trying to figure this deal out with them. And it kind of went nowhere. But now we have a nice listing and we're super excited about. It's like in my hometown, it's in Granville, so kind of my hometown.

00;29;56;05 - 00;30;18;13
Jon Geenen
So I'm really excited about it, really hoping to get entertainment use in there just so that I can take my kids and be like, Hey, like I helped bring this to West Michigan and it's super fun. I mean, Craig's cruiser's obviously is great and it is is great, but there's nothing like super close to us outside of rebounders, which is which is a lot of fun, but it's like, yeah, it'd be cool if I could take my kids someplace, you know?

00;30;18;15 - 00;30;21;04
Jon Geenen
So we had a couple other options that were a little bit closer to home.

00;30;21;04 - 00;30;33;02
Chris Prins
So what I looked at to you have over by like within the center point you have like Dave and Buster's, you have the other trampoline park over at Shoppes at CenterPoint. Like, you really need the entertainment use over in the Grand Old Market.

00;30;33;05 - 00;30;34;23
Jon Geenen
Southwest side of town. Really need something.

00;30;34;23 - 00;30;47;19
Max Grover
So I have a question to I saw in the news the group that owns the rest of the mall. They were having some issues with some of their malls over in California.

00;30;47;21 - 00;30;50;12
Trevor Petroelje
Did you tout their office towers in L.A.?

00;30;50;12 - 00;30;51;16
Max Grover
It was. It was, yeah.

00;30;51;16 - 00;30;52;28
Trevor Petroelje
And then they own.

00;30;53;00 - 00;30;54;07
Max Grover
I just didn't know if that mall.

00;30;54;07 - 00;30;54;20
Trevor Petroelje
Property.

00;30;54;21 - 00;31;01;18
Max Grover
Impacting anything that's going on at the mall or anything. I mean, what a piece of real estate there in Grandville, though, as far as like.

00;31;01;20 - 00;31;21;03
Jon Geenen
Oh, yeah, it's one of the best corridors in Grand Rapids, right? So they're the heart of it. So yeah, it's a really nice it's a really nice asset that they have there and yeah, I'm sure. So that's one of the ones I'm super excited about. Another one which Trevor might get a kick out of, is actually a daycare deal.

00;31;21;04 - 00;31;42;12
Jon Geenen
I did. And so the first grade, Huntsville Christian building solid rock. Yeah. So I worked with this girl trying to find a daycare. We, we looked for quite a while actually, and finally found out we went through this first grade building in in Hudsonville and she's like, man, just like, this is a really old building. She's like, I don't think I can convert it.

00;31;42;12 - 00;32;01;22
Jon Geenen
Well, about three months later, we circled back and she did it. And I like that deal so much because the first video of my wife and I together is in that building in the basement. We had like some like chapel or something and it pans across and there's me and then there's my wife, Megan, you know, and first grade.

00;32;01;22 - 00;32;02;22
Jon Geenen
So it's kind of wild.

00;32;02;25 - 00;32;05;07
Max Grover
Oh, when you were in first grade.

00;32;05;09 - 00;32;11;08
Jon Geenen
30 years ago. Yeah. So that's how like, the first, you know.

00;32;11;11 - 00;32;15;22
Max Grover
Never knew her. Like, did you guys go to the same school and stuff or.

00;32;15;23 - 00;32;20;05
Jon Geenen
Yeah, So. Megan, I went to school forever, so. Yeah, since. Since elementary school.

00;32;20;05 - 00;32;20;28
Max Grover
Unity as well.

00;32;20;28 - 00;32;35;10
Jon Geenen
Yeah, Unity. And then we both went to college together. So. So anyways, so I was, you know, I had an attachment to this building and then the fact that I could put solid rock childcare in there was awesome. And the operator's a fantastic person and it's awesome.

00;32;35;10 - 00;32;37;10
Chris Prins
It's cool. Yeah, it's still operating. Obviously.

00;32;37;10 - 00;32;44;09
Jon Geenen
It's, it's still operating. I mean, I mean, they made it through COVID, right? You know, and they've been doing constant improvements to the building.

00;32;44;09 - 00;32;55;22
Max Grover
And there's if they if you know how they work it to like in that there's a ton of grants and stuff out there for improvements and stuff, right? Yeah. Just comes on the finding people once again in that industry too, is what I've heard.

00;32;55;24 - 00;33;09;01
Jon Geenen
Yeah. And she's really good at finding the right people so. Yeah, yeah. So that was a really fun one. Try to see if there's any others. 470 market. Obviously it was a fun one. Yeah.

00;33;09;02 - 00;33;09;16
Max Grover
Yeah.

00;33;09;18 - 00;33;10;16
Trevor Petroelje
It was really cool.

00;33;10;17 - 00;33;12;16
Chris Prins
How did that all come together?

00;33;12;19 - 00;33;43;04
Jon Geenen
That was an Yeah, kind of a long story, I guess So Chad Bryant, who's the guy who purchased the anchors, actually owned this building as well. But I was on the other side of this deal. So Monroe Residential is a group of residential developers out of Chicago, and they were looking for something in the Grand Rapids market. I actually met them in Vegas over ICAC.

00;33;43;04 - 00;33;46;11
Jon Geenen
So I was going for a retail convention, a multifamily development.

00;33;46;17 - 00;33;48;13
Chris Prins
So the show pays off.

00;33;48;13 - 00;33;53;17
Max Grover
Yeah, exactly. So yet every year I'm like, I should go, I should go, and then I never go.

00;33;53;20 - 00;34;19;00
Jon Geenen
Yeah. So they came into town and they were like, Hey, show us opportunities. And I'm not super involved in multifamily. So I think Dave Rapp actually from Colliers drove around with us and he ended up taking us through for 70 Market. Now he's like, Man, I like Dave. Is this kind of a selfish interest? Cause he was listing the building right now and I'm like, This is kind of on the outskirts of town a little bit.

00;34;19;02 - 00;34;44;05
Jon Geenen
Well, they're like, We love the outskirts of town. Like, we think that we can develop this thing. It can be fantastic. So that deal happened through COVID as well. So there is a lot of extensions of a super long deal. And they got a ton of you know, they went through like Oprah and Brownfield credits and like all that kind of stuff, but they ended up in historical historical credits.

00;34;44;05 - 00;34;47;12
Jon Geenen
Still as important as an older building.

00;34;47;15 - 00;34;49;13
Max Grover
It took like two years.

00;34;49;16 - 00;34;51;02
Jon Geenen
Yeah, it was a long.

00;34;51;03 - 00;34;56;08
Max Grover
They stuck through they stuck through it. The whole was it. And that was pre-COVID. And that was pre-COVID.

00;34;56;11 - 00;34;57;16
Jon Geenen
They started yeah, started.

00;34;57;17 - 00;35;01;29
Max Grover
They don't stick through the whole thing. I mean that was a long period.

00;35;01;29 - 00;35;04;16
Chris Prins
And did it ever follow a contract?

00;35;04;18 - 00;35;24;03
Jon Geenen
Never fell out of contract. It showed up a bunch of time. So Trenton Treadway and got Dave wrap around the listing sign a couple of times. They're like, deal needs to fall apart. Sometimes they come back together and for me it was a really big deal. I'm super excited about it. I'm like, I'm not like this thing fall apart, so grind it through.

00;35;24;03 - 00;35;38;18
Jon Geenen
Yeah, So we ground through and they were fantastic too. I mean, that was kind of a little tongue in cheek comment from those guys, but so yeah, it ended up coming through. Now it's backboard apartment, so it's, it's a great deal.

00;35;38;20 - 00;35;40;16
Max Grover
So I mean that is it.

00;35;40;19 - 00;35;41;06
Trevor Petroelje
It's sharp.

00;35;41;10 - 00;35;41;18
Jon Geenen
As.

00;35;41;18 - 00;35;48;00
Trevor Petroelje
I remember. I've seen pictures and drove by but yeah sharp It's nice nice reviews.

00;35;48;03 - 00;35;51;05
Jon Geenen
Very I want that corner unit really bad that overlooks the city.

00;35;51;11 - 00;35;52;24
Max Grover
Yeah. A space.

00;35;52;26 - 00;35;53;23
Jon Geenen
The sweet spot and.

00;35;53;23 - 00;36;09;17
Max Grover
That that whole area and the riverfront project hadn't really. I mean, it was an idea, but it hadn't really started yet. When they went after that. And now from everyone that I've heard, it's like a done deal that the riverfront is going to happen. It's going.

00;36;09;18 - 00;36;11;00
Chris Prins
Breaking news, Max Grover.

00;36;11;03 - 00;36;15;08
Max Grover
Breaking news, breaking the rumor mill. Now it's walkable.

00;36;15;08 - 00;36;19;11
Trevor Petroelje
Now that four seventies walkable mesa. And just like that, I mean the.

00;36;19;11 - 00;36;31;15
Max Grover
Value well if felt like the way outskirt when the riverfront project happens and an amphitheater walkability and you really only want one block to founders and two to the arena yeah.

00;36;31;15 - 00;36;40;19
Jon Geenen
It's really right there in the heart of everything now and then you know factory yard obviously is opening up kind of behind it. So there's going to kind of, you know, put them right into the whole.

00;36;40;21 - 00;36;42;01
Chris Prins
Community, just feels.

00;36;42;03 - 00;36;42;23
Jon Geenen
Yep.

00;36;42;26 - 00;36;49;26
Max Grover
Wild. And you got a train and you got the train depot listed down there, too. I drove by your son's right sweet spot.

00;36;49;29 - 00;36;52;12
Jon Geenen
I've been waiting for an offer from.

00;36;52;14 - 00;36;54;26
Trevor Petroelje
Opening a hot dog stand that.

00;36;54;28 - 00;36;57;15
Jon Geenen
Just had a dog. And I was waiting for that.

00;36;57;15 - 00;37;00;17
Max Grover
So I worked the parking lot and so hot dogs. I'm going with that.

00;37;00;24 - 00;37;01;27
Jon Geenen
I mean, fuel.

00;37;01;28 - 00;37;04;26
Trevor Petroelje
So a lot of them I feel you go with.

00;37;04;28 - 00;37;07;02
Jon Geenen
Yeah. With the parking lot there. So yeah.

00;37;07;03 - 00;37;13;09
Max Grover
I'll open up pronto pup. But just change the name a little bit pronto.

00;37;13;09 - 00;37;17;13
Jon Geenen
Dogs.

00;37;17;15 - 00;37;23;07
Max Grover
Pronto pops in parking. Great.

00;37;23;10 - 00;37;27;23
Chris Prins
This Trevor. What about you? Projects.

00;37;27;25 - 00;37;48;08
Trevor Petroelje
Notable stuff. I mean, the fun stuff the last couple of years, probably doing key stories building, which was with John, which was a lot of fun. So that's a building in downtown Hudsonville that John and I grew up going to. I mean, there was a toy store in the basement, was a department store, and then converted to a dollar store.

00;37;48;08 - 00;38;10;17
Trevor Petroelje
But I mean, our Dutch upbringing was a good deal. So the key stores is where we spent a lot of time. So we purchased that, did a bunch of renovations and got three new tenant signatures finally, and complete exterior facelift, we got Sleeping Panda Hobbes, which is kind of more.

00;38;10;17 - 00;38;11;20
Max Grover
E-Commerce de.

00;38;11;21 - 00;38;19;20
Trevor Petroelje
Commerce, but has a little retail space now, but I think 90 a lot of their business is e-commerce, but it's kind of.

00;38;19;23 - 00;38;29;01
Max Grover
In my mind, it's like a small galactic toy type, same type of thing that he's trying to do. He does they do gaming and stuff like the toys They do.

00;38;29;02 - 00;38;30;17
Jon Geenen
Yeah. They he doesn't stop.

00;38;30;19 - 00;38;32;27
Max Grover
His weed's too small for that. I would think he does.

00;38;32;27 - 00;38;45;10
Trevor Petroelje
Small events, but yeah. Yeah. So that's they're on the back side and then we have velocity nutrition which is like pre-packed meals, smoothies, teas.

00;38;45;12 - 00;38;46;26
Max Grover
And Trevor goes there a lot.

00;38;46;27 - 00;39;00;20
Trevor Petroelje
I do. We've been getting, we've been getting my wife and I, our family been getting the premade meals for the week from from Rebecca and the team there and they're great so out of it makes makes it easy during the week with family he's eating right.

00;39;00;20 - 00;39;18;00
Max Grover
So he's eating super healthy like these premade meals for lunch. Meanwhile to Burger King is doing the I'm dumping gordita I'm eating gordita even more as Burger King would be better There eating gordita, salami or whatever they got.

00;39;18;03 - 00;39;21;26
Jon Geenen
From Taco Bell.

00;39;21;29 - 00;39;29;07
Max Grover
It's like the little party mixed up dinner. I'm talking mountains like the pretzels and like the crispy brown, the pub mix.

00;39;29;11 - 00;39;33;15
Trevor Petroelje
I think it's like the Costco. I mean, nothing else. Yeah.

00;39;33;17 - 00;39;36;19
Jon Geenen
Not bad.

00;39;36;21 - 00;39;52;26
Trevor Petroelje
And then we got the third tenant took, like, 6500 square feet. Shoreline, orthopedics. They're based in Holland or orthopedic office here. And do an orthopedic, urgent care. So they took the end cap and, you know, it looks looks really nice. They're going to hopefully open here soon.

00;39;53;00 - 00;40;02;06
Max Grover
It's done. I mean, they're done. Just walk through. But they waiting for clutch gear, of course, like everybody else in the whole world.

00;40;02;12 - 00;40;09;06
Trevor Petroelje
No way. No. So that one's fun. Kind of did it with a group of hudsonville guys and e k boy one.

00;40;09;06 - 00;40;23;22
Max Grover
Not one thing. Mascarell Did this thing stabilize this guy Shoreline Orthopedics. We're selling this day Like, no way. No, no. This is a legacy here.

00;40;23;25 - 00;40;25;20
Jon Geenen
Oh, was funny because I met with you guys.

00;40;25;20 - 00;40;48;03
Max Grover
Oh, you know, they sold toys in the basement that I'm like, so, yeah. So you cannot. You cannot know. But it's cool because everyone involved, with the exception me, is Hudsonville and they are super passionate and you guys all wanted to have it done right and go to the right group and you know, the seller wanted it to go to the right group.

00;40;48;04 - 00;40;50;06
Trevor Petroelje
And we got to meet your keystroke, which was fun.

00;40;50;06 - 00;40;57;05
Max Grover
And tell them about. I don't even know if you know this about it was Joel's mom, right? But yeah, yeah.

00;40;57;08 - 00;41;17;08
Trevor Petroelje
So it was kept in touch with Joel Keyser, a great guy. He ran the department store, the dollar store, when his parents turned it over. And so kind of, you know, him kind of seen what we were doing. That was fun for him because stability had been a part of their family since, like the seventies. I mean, and everyone knows where Key Extra Dollar Store is.

00;41;17;08 - 00;41;37;11
Trevor Petroelje
And so to do it right for them and kind of a landmark in the community where we're from and he had his mom walk through kind of after we did a lot of the exterior stuff, we had the first couple of tenants and kind of demo it. I mean, we gutted the whole place exterior windows, doors, you know, for interior, I mean, down to the bone.

00;41;37;11 - 00;41;56;01
Trevor Petroelje
So and renovated it. And she was just, just amazed. And so happy and thankful that we did something, you know, right by them and keep, you know, their legacy of that keeps and and it was cool because he wrote us a little email and told us about it. So it was it was fun to kind of have that.

00;41;56;01 - 00;42;04;18
Trevor Petroelje
And, you know, we did something. We wanted to do it right. And, you know, it'd make it look nice. But to kind of get that approval from them was kind of was was fun.

00;42;04;20 - 00;42;17;28
Chris Prins
It wasn't that special, especially because I feel like so many times sellers will get rid of a building and then absolutely hate when they drive by next time of like they're doing X, Y, and Z to the building, like renovating or whatnot. They tore down this. Yeah. Her just off that respect. It's just Yeah, great.

00;42;18;05 - 00;42;38;11
Max Grover
So and then deja on the other end that that's been updated but the rest of the retail they're talking about in the parking lot now for the rest of the retail center and some of the other shops have been talking about like now that just on our sections done now everyone else is like, hey, like maybe.

00;42;38;11 - 00;42;39;17
Trevor Petroelje
It looks nice, let's keep doing it.

00;42;39;17 - 00;42;40;27
Max Grover
Yes, yeah, yeah.

00;42;40;27 - 00;42;47;22
Trevor Petroelje
And there's there's the same husband was trying to do good stuff down there and get stuff going. It's tough, but I mean it's, it's looking so.

00;42;47;24 - 00;42;49;06
Jon Geenen
Completely different than when we grew up.

00;42;49;06 - 00;42;53;18
Trevor Petroelje
Oh, yeah, Completely different. Yeah. Actually. Options now, which is cool.

00;42;53;19 - 00;43;02;21
Max Grover
I heard the I heard another multifamily project is kicking off or kicked off it. I don't know if it's happened yet in downtown Hudsonville, those co-op.

00;43;02;21 - 00;43;04;20
Trevor Petroelje
So I don't know if it's still on or not.

00;43;04;20 - 00;43;06;27
Max Grover
More rumors for me.

00;43;07;00 - 00;43;09;20
Jon Geenen
Know Mr..

00;43;09;22 - 00;43;13;09
Max Grover
Daley, but that.

00;43;13;09 - 00;43;36;10
Trevor Petroelje
Was fun and really cool. And then I think the other one that's been fun because I kind of saw the business side of it too, but we're at four Mount Alpine. We purchased the Old World Mission Thrift Shop and then got to your drive up storage approved in the parking lot, had a big parking lot out front, and then converted industrial building to climate controlled storage.

00;43;36;10 - 00;44;13;21
Trevor Petroelje
So we did a whole self-storage project there. I think it's 42,000 square feet of Leasable self-storage and then just started zero doors was given, I think in March or early April. So a couple of months into the lease up. And it's kind of cool to see that process and know what people you know, like and don't like and how you change, you know, so that was fun because it was a complete kind of reuse, same thing, kind of, you know, taking something that's existing, improving and making it better, put a lot of money into the existing building on that one, too, and kind of just cleaning up old stuff, which is a lot of fun,

00;44;13;21 - 00;44;14;04
Trevor Petroelje
I think.

00;44;14;09 - 00;44;40;12
Max Grover
Yeah, that that one from start to finish and we're we're getting drone photos I think this week. Yep. I'll be I think that'll be really cool to see you know especially like it started out as it was just going to be an internal climate controlled units and then we re rereading the ordinance and pushing and got the exterior approved and it just completely changes the whole area it looks.

00;44;40;19 - 00;44;42;22
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. So it opened in township.

00;44;42;22 - 00;44;43;24
Max Grover
It she was great.

00;44;43;27 - 00;44;44;07
Trevor Petroelje
She was.

00;44;44;07 - 00;44;47;05
Max Grover
Great. Sue, we love you.

00;44;47;07 - 00;45;01;02
Chris Prins
But that's a great reuse for that building too. Just because it's like, okay, well what else would it be used for? I mean, there's buildings throughout certain parts of town where you drive by and the zoning just doesn't work in the township or municipality just doesn't.

00;45;01;02 - 00;45;10;18
Max Grover
One 30,000 square foot of retail, What do you do with that? The main like everyone, if it was on Alpine, it would be, you know, we would have been competing offers and stuff.

00;45;10;18 - 00;45;22;13
Trevor Petroelje
But I mean, a good I mean, a good example of that is the building next door, which is the showcase. I mean, they I mean that it's hard to find a user for that now. I mean, there's so much updates that need to be made. I mean, it's it's tough.

00;45;22;13 - 00;45;23;05
Jon Geenen
Yeah.

00;45;23;07 - 00;45;24;00
Max Grover
So they are.

00;45;24;05 - 00;45;24;21
Trevor Petroelje
Third gen.

00;45;24;27 - 00;45;49;28
Max Grover
The group that's doing the apartments off I have interest ad hoc they are kicking off or rumor early. Yeah wow they're kicking off 500 units on English Hills Country club supposedly this year too. So they're approved. Yep. Yeah. And they're just I'm, I'm waiting for a shovel to go to the ground and get excited about. But yeah, no.

00;45;50;00 - 00;45;55;04
Trevor Petroelje
I think those, those two are a lot of fun recently that we've done and yeah, exciting.

00;45;55;04 - 00;45;59;01
Chris Prins
That's awesome. Yeah. How many units can you fit in? There are the 42,003.

00;45;59;01 - 00;45;59;23
Max Grover
Hundred and.

00;45;59;23 - 00;46;02;11
Trevor Petroelje
18 300. They're all different sizes.

00;46;02;11 - 00;46;03;16
Max Grover
Yeah, something like that.

00;46;03;18 - 00;46;10;08
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. You go. I think you know, five by five units all the way up to 15 by 20 I think are the bigger something or.

00;46;10;08 - 00;46;31;11
Max Grover
Part partner with space squared on that and they've been fantastic to work with and as partners operators they've been awesome. Great. Yeah. So any self-storage leads out there like mom.

00;46;31;13 - 00;46;35;15
Jon Geenen
Are you guys doing anything with a parking lot out there? Because I mean, you don't need parking for. Yeah, that's.

00;46;35;17 - 00;46;42;25
Max Grover
That's why we put a 20,000 square foot of 19,000 square foot of just traditional drive ups. It's all in the parking lot.

00;46;42;25 - 00;46;43;23
Jon Geenen
Yeah. I got to drive.

00;46;43;23 - 00;46;47;25
Max Grover
Over, and that's where, like, the once we get that drone shot, I think it'll look pretty cool now.

00;46;47;27 - 00;46;48;18
Jon Geenen
Yeah.

00;46;48;20 - 00;46;50;03
Trevor Petroelje
There's no more parking lot.

00;46;50;06 - 00;46;55;11
Jon Geenen
There is no more parking lot. All right, So we took care of that problem. That's what it was. I was out there last fall.

00;46;55;13 - 00;47;04;05
Max Grover
So we do technically, we do have parking on the on the south side, too. That we're kind enough to let our neighbors is. You're welcome.

00;47;04;06 - 00;47;05;13
Trevor Petroelje
12 spaces, I think.

00;47;05;17 - 00;47;05;29
Jon Geenen
Okay.

00;47;06;02 - 00;47;06;29
Max Grover
I'm the. Yeah.

00;47;06;29 - 00;47;09;16
Trevor Petroelje
So we do have some parking.

00;47;09;19 - 00;47;10;00
Max Grover
For.

00;47;10;03 - 00;47;11;13
Trevor Petroelje
Complimentary use.

00;47;11;15 - 00;47;12;17
Jon Geenen
For us all you need for.

00;47;12;24 - 00;47;18;25
Max Grover
For now complimentary for now neighbors.

00;47;18;27 - 00;47;21;08
Trevor Petroelje
So John buys developments.

00;47;21;11 - 00;47;22;22
Jon Geenen
You should never allow free parking.

00;47;22;27 - 00;47;27;06
Max Grover
I was going to say until I bring what was the pronto dogs and parking up there.

00;47;27;06 - 00;47;28;24
Jon Geenen
To dogs and parking? Yeah.

00;47;28;27 - 00;47;33;13
Trevor Petroelje
To location to.

00;47;33;15 - 00;47;35;26
Jon Geenen
All I did for my.

00;47;35;28 - 00;47;48;20
Max Grover
Dog homework. Yeah. Big swings. Yeah. Goodness gracious. Yes. What about you, Chris? Even during anything fun, that notable.

00;47;48;22 - 00;47;54;20
Chris Prins
Gathering, anything fun and notable? Um, lots of animals, Which isn't fun.

00;47;54;23 - 00;47;55;07
Jon Geenen
The world needs.

00;47;55;07 - 00;47;57;21
Chris Prins
Them. They need every little small town needs them.

00;47;57;21 - 00;48;17;03
Trevor Petroelje
Can you verify this? So I. I think I read an article a while back, I think during the pandemic that said if we needed to start getting, you know, whatever it is medical supplies out to the is the best network we have is a family our dollar general better than any of the wall like because it reaches the rural areas is that have you heard that or anything.

00;48;17;03 - 00;48;32;10
Chris Prins
It's pretty true. I think the only areas I've looked at map that they're really not positioned with any stores is like California. Everything costs of real estate so expensive out there. Interesting. You probably can't make the numbers work. But everywhere else I would say the average is probably four or five miles away from the next dollar general.

00;48;32;14 - 00;48;33;01
Trevor Petroelje
So that's the.

00;48;33;01 - 00;48;33;10
Max Grover
Best.

00;48;33;10 - 00;48;36;08
Jon Geenen
That's a distribution network distribution.

00;48;36;14 - 00;48;37;00
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;48;37;03 - 00;48;40;23
Trevor Petroelje
Like to get something to the mass population, like what's the quickest way?

00;48;40;27 - 00;48;44;06
Max Grover
And so that's what they're looking for is a 4 to 5 mile whole.

00;48;44;06 - 00;48;55;18
Chris Prins
4 to 5 mile whole just to fill it and doesn't matter. I think they need about a thousand people in the town or within that radius. Yeah, I think in sports part of one of those stores so far yeah that was a mile and.

00;48;55;18 - 00;48;59;11
Jon Geenen
Out for a four way stop. Not a three way. Yeah. Yeah.

00;48;59;15 - 00;49;01;00
Max Grover
And just that I.

00;49;01;02 - 00;49;01;07
Jon Geenen
Can't.

00;49;01;07 - 00;49;03;11
Max Grover
Even say it three ways.

00;49;03;13 - 00;49;16;20
Chris Prins
And then another notable deal. So Dave done tonight our office, we sold the former our van furniture and Holland. Oh, yeah. So that's going to be going to Aqua Dots. Sorry. You can do storage there. So the talks is going to be open.

00;49;16;20 - 00;49;21;02
Trevor Petroelje
Thanks, Chris. I tried Aqua Tots over. So start.

00;49;21;04 - 00;49;21;25
Max Grover
Over.

00;49;21;27 - 00;49;23;24
Chris Prins
You can still do some.

00;49;23;26 - 00;49;26;18
Max Grover
Storage is way better for the community and the swim.

00;49;26;18 - 00;49;30;20
Chris Prins
School room on the lake shore. Right. It's there.

00;49;30;22 - 00;49;32;18
Max Grover
Anyways.

00;49;32;21 - 00;49;33;27
Jon Geenen
Just go to the lake.

00;49;33;29 - 00;49;38;19
Chris Prins
Yeah, but no, we got. They're going to say the bottom.

00;49;38;19 - 00;49;43;09
Jon Geenen
Can't you got to get used to the waves at some point.

00;49;43;11 - 00;49;51;01
Chris Prins
That but now we got about 10,000 square feet. They're going to be taking in another 36,000 square feet remaining kind of leftover.

00;49;51;01 - 00;49;53;18
Max Grover
So and they they bought the building and.

00;49;53;19 - 00;50;01;02
Chris Prins
They bought the building. The franchisee did. So he bought this one and they bought the other one on 20th Street, which used to be the former football boot camp.

00;50;01;04 - 00;50;04;03
Max Grover
Oh yeah. Yeah. So that when that looks good it's nice.

00;50;04;05 - 00;50;06;02
Chris Prins
Nice job that redid the parking lot and everything.

00;50;06;03 - 00;50;08;05
Max Grover
That's so good for that that whole area.

00;50;08;07 - 00;50;09;10
Chris Prins
You know, and.

00;50;09;12 - 00;50;09;15
Max Grover
The.

00;50;09;15 - 00;50;17;19
Trevor Petroelje
Aquatics and goldfish are so nice like we're I mean, unbelievable. Yeah. I can't believe that's a new thing. Like it's.

00;50;17;22 - 00;50;22;19
Max Grover
We're goldfish people. So. Aqua Tots.

00;50;22;21 - 00;50;24;19
Chris Prins
Cat.

00;50;24;21 - 00;50;27;28
Max Grover
Or goldfish. Yeah. Or where.

00;50;28;02 - 00;50;34;19
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. Yeah, we're doing goldfish too. And it's so nice. I mean, but there's a lot of money in that place. I mean, the build out, I mean.

00;50;34;22 - 00;50;44;06
Chris Prins
You talk about, like, car washes. I have to assume it's probably something similar. Similar? Once you get your real estate to dig everything out, but the pool and all the infrastructure and everything.

00;50;44;06 - 00;50;46;22
Max Grover
And I like the.

00;50;46;25 - 00;50;52;23
Trevor Petroelje
Fact that even all the way down to the staffing, because you have to have more almost like one structure per kid be.

00;50;52;28 - 00;50;53;29
Max Grover
I mean for they two.

00;50;53;29 - 00;51;04;12
Trevor Petroelje
Or three the ones I mean, I mean that's a lot of people too overhead that you're carrying on top. I mean it's it's not I mean, I understand why it's expensive. It's expensive. But I mean, when you add all that.

00;51;04;12 - 00;51;04;25
Chris Prins
Up, I mean.

00;51;05;02 - 00;51;07;25
Max Grover
What are they going to do with that other space.

00;51;07;27 - 00;51;13;08
Chris Prins
In Holland? Yeah, try to rent it out. So 36, 36,000 square feet remaining.

00;51;13;11 - 00;51;15;05
Max Grover
They want to sell it as a condo.

00;51;15;07 - 00;51;21;09
Chris Prins
They might be willing to. We should talk.

00;51;21;12 - 00;51;24;05
Max Grover
We agree about.

00;51;24;07 - 00;51;28;03
Trevor Petroelje
Which space are they.

00;51;28;05 - 00;51;35;09

Oh, oh, oh, right, right.

00;51;35;12 - 00;51;52;16
Chris Prins
Welcome to episode number six for the Car West Michigan podcast. Changed it up a little bit. Got a couple different guests on today, so I'll introduce the first one. I was actually one of my coworkers as well, John Keenan from DA Commercial. So thanks, John, for joining us on the show today.

00;51;52;19 - 00;52;09;15
Max Grover
And then. Oh, no, no, no. I'm going to intro Trevor first. Trevor truly partner with me Moxy, Real estate development and long time friend and, colleague and awesome person. Wow by week Chris.

00;52;09;18 - 00;52;10;18
Chris Prins
Wow I still like you.

00;52;10;18 - 00;52;14;11
Jon Geenen
Josh Oh.

00;52;14;13 - 00;52;18;00
Chris Prins
You're not a friend or anything like that. Monday through Friday.

00;52;18;02 - 00;52;23;21
Jon Geenen
Oh yeah. I said, Oh.

00;52;23;23 - 00;52;42;09
Max Grover
This is going to be a fun podcast because we, we are all competitors, but friends and we've done a lot of stuff together in the past, so kind of excited but a little bit nervous because they know too much about everyone in here knows too much about me. It's not a good place to be.

00;52;42;12 - 00;52;46;17
Chris Prins
The skeletons in the closet.

00;52;46;20 - 00;52;48;01
Jon Geenen
Lord in over your head too much.

00;52;48;04 - 00;52;49;24
Max Grover
Yeah, exactly.

00;52;49;26 - 00;52;54;01
Trevor Petroelje
Oh, man. John and I have known each other, too, since ten.

00;52;54;08 - 00;52;55;05
Jon Geenen
Yeah, forever.

00;52;55;05 - 00;52;56;18
Trevor Petroelje
Forever. So it's so weird.

00;52;56;24 - 00;52;59;01
Chris Prins
Did you guys fight in school together then, or what?

00;52;59;03 - 00;53;00;04
Jon Geenen
School and church.

00;53;00;04 - 00;53;02;19
Trevor Petroelje
School. Internships. Both grown up. I mean.

00;53;02;23 - 00;53;03;10
Jon Geenen
I'm.

00;53;03;13 - 00;53;05;19
Chris Prins
Only in Jenison, right?

00;53;05;21 - 00;53;06;22
Jon Geenen
Oh, Hudsonville. Yeah.

00;53;06;23 - 00;53;08;01
Trevor Petroelje
Okay. Jacksonville. Yeah. Yeah.

00;53;08;07 - 00;53;12;05
Max Grover
You know, Unity Elementary School all the way up or.

00;53;12;07 - 00;53;13;15
Jon Geenen
Yeah, cool.

00;53;13;17 - 00;53;15;06
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. John was a year older.

00;53;15;08 - 00;53;16;01
Jon Geenen
Yeah.

00;53;16;03 - 00;53;18;19
Trevor Petroelje
But yeah, Elementary, middle school and high school.

00;53;18;23 - 00;53;21;23
Max Grover
He used to pick on you, put in lockers.

00;53;21;26 - 00;53;23;08
Trevor Petroelje
All the time.

00;53;23;10 - 00;53;26;21
Max Grover
To make you call him King John. King. John.

00;53;26;23 - 00;53;28;13
Trevor Petroelje
John to the rescue.

00;53;28;15 - 00;53;30;26
Jon Geenen
That was me in elementary school. All that.

00;53;30;29 - 00;53;34;19
Trevor Petroelje
I don't think John had a mean board in him. Nobody does anymore.

00;53;34;21 - 00;53;39;04
Max Grover
He I've seen it. He's been mean to me.

00;53;39;06 - 00;53;43;20
Jon Geenen
No elementary school. I was looking through goggles, man. I had these massive.

00;53;43;23 - 00;53;43;28
Max Grover
I was.

00;53;43;29 - 00;53;49;10
Jon Geenen
Not putting anyone in lockers.

00;53;49;12 - 00;54;07;02
Max Grover
So I guess to Sarah Chris has an agenda printed. Of course, John brought on Trevor than I did of what we were going to talk about. But I guess kind of let's just dive in a little bit into to John and where you started and how you eventually got into real estate.

00;54;07;04 - 00;54;09;10
Jon Geenen
Yeah. How far back do we go?

00;54;09;13 - 00;54;17;10
Max Grover
Well, with culinary school I go to first time you you gave Trevor a wedgie. Oh.

00;54;17;13 - 00;54;47;03
Jon Geenen
No. So I guess I'm a third generation realtor. I always like to start with that, I guess. But my path to becoming a realtor was a little bit winding. So I went to Calvin College. Always asking to get into finance. Really wanted to get had internship lined up at Merrill Lynch and the stock market fell apart. So ended up working construction that summer building subways.

00;54;47;06 - 00;54;59;09
Jon Geenen
And that's how I met subway franchisee owner and he's like, Hey, he's like, What are you doing after college? I'm like, There are no prospects right now. So I'm like, Yeah, happy to come work for you at Subway Become a manager.

00;54;59;11 - 00;55;00;15
Max Grover
Here was a.

00;55;00;18 - 00;55;01;19
Jon Geenen
28.

00;55;01;22 - 00;55;02;25
Max Grover
Okay.

00;55;02;27 - 00;55;34;29
Jon Geenen
So, um, so initially I started out working for this guy for a couple of summers while I was in college and throughout college, and I became a subway franchisee owner and then eventually bought into Big B as well. And then did that for a few years, learned I, I was it was good job, but it wasn't a good fit for a young family like you were always working like you always getting calls from your employees and people calling in and no one wants to work holidays, right?

00;55;34;29 - 00;55;51;10
Jon Geenen
So you're working every single holiday. So wasn't a great fit when I had a young family, so I wanted to make a switch and then eventually asked my dad, I'm like, Hey, I'm like, I want to get to commercial real estate. I can work for you. And he's like, No way. It's like, you don't want to do that.

00;55;51;10 - 00;56;08;09
Jon Geenen
It's like, is like, you know, he's like, he's like, You want to do it, But he's like, Find out if you like it first before you commit to something that you know you have no way out. So he's like, Go work for one of the bigger firms out there is like fly to Colliers. But I, you know, fill it out, see if you like it.

00;56;08;09 - 00;56;18;19
Jon Geenen
So that's what I did. Ended up at Colliers with Chris. It was great. I ended up absolutely loving it. Yeah, that's how I got into Chris.

00;56;18;21 - 00;56;22;24
Chris Prins
How many big B's and subways did you own at one point? What was the largest?

00;56;22;26 - 00;56;33;27
Jon Geenen
Yeah, so I, I managed seven subways and then two big B's, but I only had ownership in four of the subways. And then the two big these two big.

00;56;33;29 - 00;56;39;28
Max Grover
Was there one that you like managing better than the other or.

00;56;40;00 - 00;57;06;05
Jon Geenen
Well, Metro Hospital subway was one that I started from the ground up. So that one I kind of liked, I don't know if I liked it more, but I felt like more attached to it because the other ones I kind of thought into cool. Whereas that one, like, you know, from construction all the way, all the way up, but, but I did love Big B coffee a time like it's such a great concept and like, the franchisees are like all good friends.

00;57;06;07 - 00;57;07;15
Jon Geenen
Yeah. So that was a.

00;57;07;15 - 00;57;12;11
Max Grover
Time I've dealt with some of those some of the big B guys too, and they've been they've always been great to work with.

00;57;12;15 - 00;57;14;12
Jon Geenen
Yeah, yeah, they're great group guys.

00;57;14;15 - 00;57;26;01
Max Grover
So and so you built, you started on, ran them and then sold them all but for the age of what are you like.

00;57;26;03 - 00;57;39;22
Jon Geenen
I saw them in 2016 and I'm 35 now so yeah, I think I started, I started when I was 20 and I think I saw them all by the age of 30 or 29. Yeah.

00;57;39;24 - 00;57;52;22
Max Grover
So yeah, it's such a good life experience. It's so many people to start, start it, run them and then sell them and see that whole cycle of the businesses.

00;57;52;25 - 00;57;55;15
Trevor Petroelje
That's awesome. The operations, the people. I mean.

00;57;55;19 - 00;58;30;03
Jon Geenen
Yeah, it was pretty amazing. I mean, now when you're talking to a lot of people in the restaurant industry, like they all say staffing, staffing, staffing, staffing. Well, when I started in 2008, we had applicants. We had stacks of applications, right? Like you could choose whoever you wanted to hire. You know, by the time I left in 2016, like you were hiring, like you'd have like three people to choose from and you'd hire two of them because you're like, I have to have more people, which you could I mean, you still would get good people, but a lot of times it was like, you're not you're not picking and choosing anymore.

00;58;30;10 - 00;58;32;12
Jon Geenen
So and I think it's only gotten harder.

00;58;32;15 - 00;58;38;08
Max Grover
So, yeah, I mean, you drive by pretty much any fast food or quick service chain right now and there's a sign out. We're hiring.

00;58;38;08 - 00;58;39;01
Chris Prins
Hiring now. Yeah.

00;58;39;02 - 00;58;46;21
Jon Geenen
So yeah. So I'm glad I got out when I did because it sounds like it's only gotten more difficult. So props to all the people in the food industry for sure.

00;58;46;23 - 00;59;10;04
Max Grover
It's got to be such a grind and it's so competitive. And, and we were talking to even before we started the podcast, like, and we didn't really get into this aspect of it, but how like some a brand catches fire and grows like crazy, but then, you know, some taper and lose that too. And so it's, it, it, the food industry it has to be the hardest.

00;59;10;04 - 00;59;11;01
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;59;11;03 - 00;59;12;04
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. Very difficult.

00;59;12;11 - 00;59;16;12
Jon Geenen
Yeah Definitely seems like a difficult difficult industry and.

00;59;16;14 - 00;59;18;21
Max Grover
Not not quite as hard as brokerage, you know.

00;59;18;21 - 00;59;19;15
Jon Geenen
Brokers just kind.

00;59;19;18 - 00;59;23;29
Chris Prins
Of most underpaid too, by the way.

00;59;24;02 - 00;59;37;19
Jon Geenen
But even I'll say, like, I was a franchisee owner, right? So like, I had training wheels on, like I didn't have to recreate the wheel. They're like, This is your menu. Menu. This is like how you hire, right?

00;59;37;22 - 00;59;43;13
Max Grover
Here's processes of how you prep may sell exact systems in place.

00;59;43;14 - 01;00;03;18
Jon Geenen
So I can't even imagine how hard it is to start a restaurant from the ground up. You know, your own concept and your own menu and have to work through all that. Like props to those people. I mean, that's got to be that's a difficult road to walk. But sure, obviously, if it's successful, like I've seen people who are massively successful on it too.

01;00;03;18 - 01;00;20;20
Chris Prins
So yeah. And then so your dad kind of told you to go interview with some of the bigger brokerage firms. What was his guidance on that? Why why did especially with him being the second generation realtor, why didn't he just take you under his wings and say, okay, I'll take you through the ropes and show you everything?

01;00;20;23 - 01;00;39;06
Jon Geenen
I think it was because, you know, it was partially a family business. And I think his thought process was, well, if you get to the family business like you're in it, and if you don't like it, that's the rest of your life. So I think that was part of it. And then I think the other part.

01;00;39;08 - 01;00;41;06
Max Grover
Sink or swim on your own a little bit was.

01;00;41;06 - 01;00;58;28
Jon Geenen
Yeah, you know, figure it out for for yourself. And my dad's a great been a great mentor for me and a great teacher, but he's just one person, right? So it's like get some experience from other people and learn from some other people besides just hearing everything from one source.

01;00;58;29 - 01;01;06;11
Max Grover
So and I don't I don't know how many people know this, but his license technically was held with Arnold.

01;01;06;11 - 01;01;08;19
Jon Geenen
Grover Yeah.

01;01;08;21 - 01;01;13;14
Max Grover
He was going to join the other brokerage. You would have had to join me. Yeah, that's.

01;01;13;14 - 01;01;15;29
Jon Geenen
True. Yeah. And before he was at.

01;01;15;29 - 01;01;17;13
Max Grover
Grover, he was at.

01;01;17;14 - 01;01;18;02
Jon Geenen
He was at.

01;01;18;02 - 01;01;20;11
Max Grover
DA. So power of the DA.

01;01;20;14 - 01;01;21;01
Jon Geenen
Right?

01;01;21;05 - 01;01;26;25
Max Grover
So power. The power of the DA. That's what they're always. Yeah. Yeah.

01;01;26;27 - 01;01;29;18
Jon Geenen
So yeah, that's my story.

01;01;29;20 - 01;01;31;29
Max Grover
All right. Podcast over. Yeah.

01;01;32;01 - 01;01;32;26
Chris Prins
Nice guys.

01;01;32;29 - 01;01;40;22
Max Grover
Yeah. Now, Trevor kind of in back in your path has been different than. Yeah, even any of the three of us. Yeah.

01;01;40;24 - 01;01;44;13
Trevor Petroelje
Different paths. And I'm kind of both of you to, you know, starting out.

01;01;44;13 - 01;01;46;13
Max Grover
You got to pull the mike closer.

01;01;46;15 - 01;01;51;23
Chris Prins
So you take it from when you walked outside the locker after John stopped doing everything. That's how you.

01;01;51;23 - 01;02;16;11
Trevor Petroelje
Finally got out of the line. Was a rough, rough time. No, after high school and T.C., I did that route, got my associates there, and then kind of got into the workforce, working full time in construction, physical labor, doing that thing. And then I did a adult night program at Big Rapids. Four or four at Ferris. Yeah, at the Garden Rapids campus here.

01;02;16;14 - 01;02;45;12
Trevor Petroelje
And did that for six or seven years, working through the construction management program at Ferris for kind of being in construction. Did that get hired by a local subcontractor to do kind of like small project Canadian project management for structural miscellaneous steel, very boring, tender, you know, part of the construction process, but started doing that and then kind of involved into doing a little bit of BD.

01;02;45;15 - 01;03;28;15
Trevor Petroelje
And the goal is to always work at like a big C or C pioneer. How is that? Pioneer was a great company, the best in Grand Rapids. I always start growing up. I like those that's, you know, something like that and got hired by a small contractor seem you know enjoyed that some project management there started doing business development found had a knack for that and then Eric Finnegan our partner at Moxie with Max and I kind of started you know bringing me is showing me the ropes and the development side and kind of how that transaction looks, you know, from the real estate or from the development side, from the real estate all the

01;03;28;15 - 01;03;56;04
Trevor Petroelje
way through it on the construction, the lease up stabilization. And he kind of opened my eyes to that whole world. And and I really liked it. I always, you know, kind of like John Finance or construction management, those are the two kind of past that I was looking at and want to see him see, I'm past. But really like the numbers side of like how that looks and, and kind of started getting into that development through Eric and got my real estate license.

01;03;56;04 - 01;04;25;17
Trevor Petroelje
And then we did a real estate development in my hometown in Hudson of Baldwin and 36. Yeah, I was with a good friend of ours, Nate Harbaugh, and that was my first kind of full cycle and kind of, you know, we Nick got the land, you know, start developing in site plan approval, the site entitlements. Eric and I were doing the listings trying to find tenants before our building is up, you know, So we got 50% tenants signed up.

01;04;25;19 - 01;04;47;14
Trevor Petroelje
Did the construction of the building or trust fund, you know, first tenants in we had the other two, one came on during construction and one within three months of, of the building being finished. We had completely for building three months after being finished and kind of just seen the fun of all the way through then helping the tenants, you get relationships with them and kind of what their business looks like.

01;04;47;14 - 01;05;04;25
Trevor Petroelje
You get to kind of look at what they're doing, how they're making money, kind of just the whole dynamic of it was fun to kind of see that. And so that kind of open my eyes. And now here we are kind of doing that on a daily basis. And I mean, that's it's a lot of fun.

01;05;04;25 - 01;05;11;13
Chris Prins
Yeah. Were you ever interested in like the residential side from a construction standpoint, or were you always focused on more of the commercial aspect?

01;05;11;16 - 01;05;32;00
Trevor Petroelje
I like the commercial more, but like the home building, the single family, especially now we're getting into development. I mean, it's it's with the little bit of land that we have left and how to develop and how best to develop it. I mean, there's a lot of it's it's fun. But I the on the construction side commercial was always kind of where I, you know, I enjoyed it more towards it.

01;05;32;01 - 01;05;39;20
Max Grover
Yeah yeah. And and you kind of grew up around that to the commercial side of and seeing those projects and everything to and yeah.

01;05;39;23 - 01;05;56;08
Trevor Petroelje
I grew up my dad was a site superintendent and then a project manager so I remember going to job sites when I was little and kind of seeing stuff as it was built. So that was I think kind of what spurred my interest plans, you know, building plans on the table, you know, at home, you know, kind of So I kind of grasp it and enjoy that.

01;05;56;08 - 01;05;57;19
Trevor Petroelje
And that was that was fun.

01;05;57;25 - 01;06;22;01
Max Grover
And I don't want to throw you under the bus like talking about, but with like, I remember a conversation that you had with yourself when and I can't remember where you were at at the time that you told me about where you like working an hourly job and you're like, I'm only going to make this amount of money this year and planning that out and putting your I don't know if you're but do you know what I'm talking about at all?

01;06;22;03 - 01;06;25;22
Max Grover
You tell us story. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. It's hard to tell.

01;06;25;24 - 01;06;53;01
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. No, it was. It was at the subcontractor van Dam Iron Works great guys over there. And so just sitting there one day and thank you like 24 I think we had just had our first kid, my wife and I, Kenedy, who's ten now, so crazy. She just turned to go see like that. But and just sitting there thinking, you know, if you get the standard 3% annual rate, that's Yeah.

01;06;53;03 - 01;07;12;06
Trevor Petroelje
And you get a promotion in five years and that's a 15% pay bump. And kind of what that looks like in the cost of stuff. I'm like this like, this is hard. This is, this is this isn't going to be a grind. Yeah. How do you do it? You know, we want to have kids, you know, and so just, you know, and I'm very go, go, go type person.

01;07;12;09 - 01;07;28;26
Trevor Petroelje
I can outside the box don't like kind of I don't like being stuck in parameters like this is how it is, but sort of kind of like, hey, I got to do something about this and kind of start thinking and then working your way through to try and keep and keep going and try and make it.

01;07;28;29 - 01;07;55;08
Max Grover
And actually doing it right. Like, yeah, I'm going to go be okay now I'm going to do the general contracting for a commercial side, you know, and doing that. But then it's like, hey, like there's also opportunity in the business development side. Like I don't have to just be a project manager and growing and pushing into that and right meeting Eric and touching that portion of the real estate and being like, Oh, this is there's more to this even yet, you know, jumping in, that is pretty cool.

01;07;55;08 - 01;08;13;18
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah, No, it was it was a lot of fun. And I mean, I'm very thankful to all the people along the way that helped me and gave me opportunities to tend to do something new or I hadn't done this before. Like, Hey, here, go try to see run, you know, see So very thankful for all those, all those people and just giving me the chance.

01;08;13;18 - 01;08;18;08
Trevor Petroelje
And now here we are. I mean, Adam podcast like this is crazy.

01;08;18;11 - 01;08;19;02
Max Grover
This guy went.

01;08;19;02 - 01;08;23;18
Trevor Petroelje
To elementary school where they dress like a friend to like it's it's crazy. It's just.

01;08;23;18 - 01;08;23;27
Chris Prins
So on.

01;08;24;00 - 01;08;24;21
Max Grover
Yeah yeah.

01;08;24;23 - 01;08;25;17
Trevor Petroelje
For fun I think.

01;08;25;17 - 01;08;49;10
Chris Prins
We've heard on so many of our podcast we've done about the whole like mentorship position and mentorship role. Just bring someone underneath you to help you and say, Hey, I'll teach you the role of something like Eric kind of helped you. Yeah, I think that's so influential. I think that's something special that kind of West Michigan has in general too, of we have some very, very experienced, very good developers, brokers, whatever it be, they can say, okay, hey, I see the next generation coming up.

01;08;49;10 - 01;08;51;10
Chris Prins
Let me teach them what I've learned so far.

01;08;51;18 - 01;09;03;00
Max Grover
Yeah. So who is who is that guy for you, John? And into real estate. Besides, your dad obviously didn't want to deal with you.

01;09;03;02 - 01;09;04;28
Jon Geenen
Know, I think my dad did actually buy.

01;09;05;00 - 01;09;17;14
Max Grover
Eventually. I don't know. We can edit this out, too. We need to. But I just saw that your dad is not a Grover anymore either.

01;09;17;16 - 01;09;20;22
Jon Geenen
Yeah, he's trying to retire. He's picked up golf.

01;09;20;25 - 01;09;27;12
Max Grover
There's no way I saw. I saw this. I was like, There's no way he's going to retire. He's got way too much energy.

01;09;27;14 - 01;09;33;20
Jon Geenen
Yeah, he has a ton of energy, but luckily I have three kids to keep him busy. My sister has three kids to keep him busy.

01;09;33;20 - 01;09;37;12
Max Grover
Paid up golf.

01;09;37;14 - 01;09;50;10
Jon Geenen
And yeah, I honestly, he didn't golf a ton before the last couple of years, but this year I got him all golf gifts or Father's Day. It was awesome. So much easier to shop for thing.

01;09;50;13 - 01;10;17;16
Max Grover
I so I have the misfortune of being a hockey player and a real estate broker. And so like, everyone's like, Oh, this guy's going to be good at golf for sure. Going to be going to go. And then I, I got Trevor just brought out to his league a couple of times. I think I hold the record of DNF, which is did not finish and double double pass, I think.

01;10;17;19 - 01;10;20;13
Trevor Petroelje
I think they had two or three on one day, so that wasn't bad.

01;10;20;13 - 01;10;29;03
Max Grover
It was a good year. I had a birdie, did have a birdie, I had a birdie par four and I finished my putt, they gave me the putt. I was like no, no.

01;10;29;06 - 01;10;30;20
Jon Geenen
I got after the year before.

01;10;30;22 - 01;10;31;02
Max Grover
And.

01;10;31;02 - 01;10;40;12
Jon Geenen
You're golfing with one hand, you had the other hand on your phone texting. I try to do this up a deal or bad service, that's all you get time off?

01;10;40;12 - 01;10;58;10
Max Grover
Yeah. We're out at pilgrims, right? Yeah. Oh, pilgrims are as beautiful. Horrible service, horrible cell service areas. I always dread going out the pilgrims to Mike. I know. Once I get past the first hole, I have zero service. Yeah. Don't be crazy.

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01;11;28;19 - 01;11;51;01
Jon Geenen
In terms of mentorship, obviously I went to Collier's to Star and there's a great team. I wasn't I was in retail. I was a great team set up there. Yeah. So Mark and Mike, Mary and Earl and Chris really, really the team that I walked into and I learned a lot from all of them actually. So Mike's more on the tenant rep side, so he kind of showed me the ropes on that.

01;11;51;06 - 01;12;09;26
Jon Geenen
Yeah, Mark's more of a landlord rep kind of guy. Chris just broke and hustles like crazy, and when I started, you know, I mean, there's some questions that you don't want to ask to somebody who's been in the business for ten years. So, like, I'd go, like, if I had a silly question, I'd be like, I'm going to ask Chris because he's going to make you feel bad about it.

01;12;09;29 - 01;12;12;21
Chris Prins
I'm trying to figure it out the same way.

01;12;12;23 - 01;12;24;08
Max Grover
I would get off the phone with somebody and they talk. I can't even think of an example of a word, but they would say something and then I would be on Google or try to figure out, well.

01;12;24;10 - 01;12;41;24
Jon Geenen
Really, like even from different states, a state like there's different terminology for stuff, right? So like some people would say, oh, well, T.I. Well, you're or to me like, oh, I think those are the same thing. But let me Google make sure, you know, before I answer. I'm like, when you're first getting into it, like.

01;12;42;00 - 01;13;12;02
Max Grover
But especially in retail, in my mind, where it's like QSR or like every restaurant has an A if, God forbid, you say the full name of the restaurant so-and-so initials is interested in this site, then you're like, Had to think I have the right to be. Yeah, exactly. But no. And that's especially for retail though, like for industrial, which is inland, which is a lot of what I've done in the past.

01;13;12;02 - 01;13;36;28
Max Grover
And I mean I've done a lot of everything, but that's kind of where I started. That's very local and on with the exception. I mean, if you get into the really big stuff, but for retail, it's almost all drive through national retailers, right? Yeah. So there is that people coming in from other markets a lot more in that sector than probably any other I would think.

01;13;37;01 - 01;13;50;20
Chris Prins
Yeah, it's kind of similar to what Trevor talks about too with having the relationships are most of the time in retail. You don't do one deal, just stop. It's okay. Well, I want four or five stores in the market right now. Just continue to build a relationship with them throughout the years.

01;13;50;22 - 01;14;10;21
Max Grover
Yeah, yeah. We were talking about car washes actually, and like how the new model is really, you know, these membership, the membership drive. And it's like okay, Well, if you're going to go out and open one car washes that really beneficial to the market or do you really probably need to like do four or five to make it beneficial for the membership?

01;14;10;21 - 01;14;15;18
Max Grover
And that gets pretty daunting for people. I would think it what's a what's a new car wash?

01;14;15;20 - 01;14;25;20
Trevor Petroelje
I think they're saying five or 6 million all in the equipment construction land. I mean, that's I mean how do you have to do a handful I think, in a market to kind of test it, feel it I mean.

01;14;25;23 - 01;14;27;12
Chris Prins
Yeah that's per site, right?

01;14;27;14 - 01;14;28;17
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah.

01;14;28;20 - 01;14;31;12
Max Grover
Yeah. And that's not even land isn't even land.

01;14;31;12 - 01;14;40;16
Trevor Petroelje
Yeah. I don't know. It might be land but yeah. The 5 to 6. I mean all in. Yeah. Equipments you know million have 2 million couple million on the construction and then the land.

01;14;40;16 - 01;14;50;24
Max Grover
Yeah. So how many once. What's the debt. Let's do that right now. What's the debt on 7 million I think.

01;14;50;24 - 01;14;51;13
Trevor Petroelje
Six.

01;14;51;15 - 01;15;08;16
Max Grover
6 million. Yeah. Let's still 6 million. And they're going to put 20% down so I'm going to call it six and a half. They got a decent lender.

01;15;08;19 - 01;15;12;08
Chris Prins
Still looking for a sponsor, by the way. Yeah.

01;15;12;10 - 01;15;20;05
Max Grover
Yeah, we are. I was. I was given this off sale to Brian Claver, you know that. I didn't ask for that.

01;15;20;08 - 01;15;21;03
Chris Prins
This could be.

01;15;21;05 - 01;15;23;11
Jon Geenen
Good. I'll make sure you listen to that.

01;15;23;14 - 01;15;28;02
Max Grover
$35,000 a month. Wow. And that's service.

01;15;28;04 - 01;15;32;02
Chris Prins
And your average membership. 30 bucks a month?

01;15;32;04 - 01;15;38;13
Max Grover
Yeah. So how many do you need? 11. 1200 cars.

01;15;38;15 - 01;15;41;09
Trevor Petroelje
1200 members as far.

01;15;41;11 - 01;15;43;17
Jon Geenen
It's a lot.

01;15;43;20 - 01;15;50;04
Trevor Petroelje
I wonder how much. I wonder what the breakdown of monthly subscriptions to paying the single cost is. I mean, that.

01;15;50;06 - 01;15;52;23
Chris Prins
Single cost is like, what, 20 bucks? Yeah.

01;15;52;26 - 01;15;55;21
Trevor Petroelje
I wonder what what the breakdown of that is.

01;15;55;23 - 01;16;18;09
Max Grover
That's fair. And I so I have a membership and I haven't used it and like them because I got rear ended so my is huge. I do a lot, I drive a lot, I travel a lot. So yeah, I got rear end by a girl. I was sitting a red light just minding my own business. There's not a car.

01;16;18;09 - 01;16;19;04
Max Grover
He thought that.

01;16;19;04 - 01;16;21;23
Trevor Petroelje
He was going to run. At first I was.

01;16;21;25 - 01;16;48;14
Max Grover
Sitting at this red light up on Plainfield. I accidently drove by the building. I was going to go to circle back around, sitting at a red light. There's no one around. It's a three intersections, a three lane, whatever. However you want to say that there's only three. Turns out for three. Thank you. That's what I'm looking for. Sitting there, red light, minding my own business, had a car in the world.

01;16;48;14 - 01;17;13;10
Max Grover
I'm like, This is the dumbest light I've ever been at. I'm like, I'm running this thing. And then I'm like checking my mirrors. I see a car way back there. I'm like, Dang it, maybe it's a cop. I'll just wait. Big mistake. Big mistake. The girl just smoked. I'm just sitting there. She smoked me, and then she comes out crying and I'm.

01;17;13;17 - 01;17;36;13
Max Grover
What, Like, you're fine. No one's hurt. It's not that big of a deal. It's a car. But now my right side of my car is like, flapping in the wind, trying to appointment, and then the car before that, the John's bringing it up. I got T-boned by it or I T-boned a car. But it was her fault. She did a U-turn, an intersection to go north.

01;17;36;13 - 01;17;44;12
Max Grover
We're both having so many intersection turns or right in front of me just to head north. If I did that, I would go to jail.

01;17;44;12 - 01;17;46;21
Chris Prins
Yeah, throw away the key. I mean, how.

01;17;46;21 - 01;17;51;05
Max Grover
Do you turn to do a U-turn by the intersection right in front of a cop?

01;17;51;11 - 01;18;01;15
Jon Geenen
At least it wasn't a nice car. It's only major out. It used to be Maserati. Max now is just.

01;18;01;15 - 01;18;17;12
Max Grover
A janky activity. Bouncer. Where did he get that car? Yeah, I was going to bring up something else, but I can't remember what it was. That doesn't matter.

01;18;17;14 - 01;18;21;10
Chris Prins
Our genome. Let's see here. Let's hear some notable deals you've worked on.

01;18;21;12 - 01;18;22;03
Max Grover
Oh.

01;18;22;06 - 01;18;28;16
Chris Prins
Give us some fun ones, because I feel like you've been part of some really, really kind of cool deals. But maybe give us all like top to top three.

01;18;28;18 - 01;18;30;10
Jon Geenen
Yeah.

01;18;30;12 - 01;18;31;17
Max Grover
Flex. Honest. John.

01;18;31;17 - 01;18;32;02
Chris Prins
Yeah.

01;18;32;04 - 01;18;51;19
Jon Geenen
Yeah. All right. Well, the one that I'm probably having the most fun with right now was a it was a high risk, high reward deal where it was that Rivertown Crossing mall actually just listed at about three weeks ago. The Yonkers box.

01;18;51;19 - 01;18;54;21
Max Grover
Yeah. Why? You painted green.

01;18;54;23 - 01;18;59;06
Jon Geenen
This is like an undertone that my client loves paying.

01;18;59;08 - 01;19;09;16
Max Grover
I'm just kidding. John brought this up. I talked to John about it, and he talked about the paid for, like, 5 minutes. That's all he loves. And they always.

01;19;09;16 - 01;19;16;23
Jon Geenen
Had all looking fantastic, Like he sells storage up on Plainfield. Like, that building looks real nice. Obviously, Devine owns it now, but.

01;19;16;26 - 01;19;18;21
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah.

01;19;18;23 - 01;19;22;05
Jon Geenen
Yeah. They all up looking really, really well when he's done. So he does a great job.

01;19;22;05 - 01;19;22;11
Max Grover
Yeah.

01;19;22;11 - 01;19;24;16
Jon Geenen
Yeah, he makes things look great.

01;19;24;19 - 01;19;30;16
Max Grover
I like how he even like we went through the one in Muskegon that he was doing.

01;19;30;21 - 01;19;32;19
Jon Geenen
Yeah. The fuze box there. No, no, no.

01;19;32;19 - 01;19;46;05
Max Grover
Not the Yonkers. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Prestige bought it. Yes. And I just like the simple little touches where, like he paints all the like he paints the water mains, he paints the gas lines, different.

01;19;46;05 - 01;19;47;07
Trevor Petroelje
Colors, fires, fire.

01;19;47;07 - 01;19;48;23
Jon Geenen
Suppression that. Yeah. So you can make.

01;19;48;23 - 01;19;49;12
Max Grover
It looks clean.

01;19;49;12 - 01;19;54;12
Jon Geenen
You're not just looking up at a bunch of gray pipes like you know what each pipe does. So yeah, it's pretty amazing.

01;19;54;14 - 01;19;56;20
Max Grover
He's he's an interesting guy. He's awesome.

01;19;56;23 - 01;20;01;03
Jon Geenen
Yeah. And I think a lot of people when they walk in, they really respected because they're like, wow.

01;20;01;06 - 01;20;02;07
Trevor Petroelje
So what's going.