Welcome to the Max + Chris Show! In this episode, we are joined by Kurt Adams, the Director of Property Management at Meijer Inc. Join us as we delve into the world of property management within Meijer, a leading national retail company. Kurt shares his expertise and insights on optimizing property performance, enhancing tenant satisfaction, and navigating the unique challenges of managing properties within the Meijer portfolio including its commercial out lots. Don't miss this engaging conversation with Kurt Adams as we explore the fascinating world of Meijer Inc.
Welcome to the Max + Chris Show! In this episode, we are joined by Kurt Adams, the Director of Property Management at Meijer Inc. Join us as we delve into the world of property management within Meijer, a leading national retail company. Kurt shares his expertise and insights on optimizing property performance, enhancing tenant satisfaction, and navigating the unique challenges of managing properties within the Meijer portfolio including its commercial out lots. Don't miss this engaging conversation with Kurt Adams as we explore the fascinating world of Meijer Inc.
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Chris Prins
Welcome to episode eight of The Max and Chris Show. Our special guest today from one of our major employers. I'll just say in the state of Michigan and I will say as well to all of our listeners, our avid shopper at your store, we're anti like Walmart, Aldi, all our competitors, Whole Foods, Goodyear. Yeah, exactly. So I just want to welcome Kurt Adams, the director of property management over at Myer.
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Chris Prins
So thanks for having us. I heard. Thanks for being part of the show.
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Kurt Adams
Yep, thanks for having me.
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Max Grover
Yeah, thanks for that. Thanks for jumping on with us. I'm super excited. I'm glad Chris could list out all your competitors for free advertising as well.
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Chris Prins
Separate A.I. and.
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Cyber.
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Kurt Adams
No, I had to say that. Or else I was going to walk out.
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Exactly. Exactly.
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Max Grover
I haven't met you before. Obviously, you and Chris have a good relationship or have met in the past. And how did you guys meet?
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Kurt Adams
Well, I.
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Chris Prins
Actually think we met when Earl and Mike were doing Chick-Fil-A, Right. I think it was like 2014, 2016.
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Kurt Adams
Right about.
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Chris Prins
There back in the day. So I was an Internet colliers and just trying to learn the ropes, told Earl and Mike and Mark and Sarah to just throw me out as many deals as possible just to learn it. And Mike and Earl will run with Chick-Fil-A and still are.
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Yep.
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Chris Prins
And they would just loop me in on email threads. I got to go on all the tours and I think one day we just went to Myer headquarters just to talk about a variety of sites. So that was the first place we actually have.
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Max Grover
Chick fil A is are they on any Myer whole lots right now? Oh, I guess they're out in Cascade for sure.
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Chris Prins
And then Clyde Park.
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Max Grover
Oh, yeah. Yep.
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Chris Prins
54.
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Kurt Adams
Got a number of them down in Ohio. Illinois. Yeah. We get a lot of them.
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Max Grover
Yeah, I'm.
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Chris Prins
Yeah, I was going to say, it's probably a pretty good relationship between the two of you guys.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah. Matter of fact, last thing I knew, their top performing store was in our parking lot in bowling Brook, Illinois, I think.
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Really?
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Chris Prins
That's awesome.
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Max Grover
Top performing store in the whole country?
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Kurt Adams
Yep.
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Max Grover
No kidding. So what's Bolingbrook like? Do you know yourself, like, demographic wise? It's.
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Kurt Adams
I mean, it's just another one of those Chicago.
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Suburbs kind of.
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Kurt Adams
That's what they all kind of seem to be like.
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Chris Prins
Just a bunch of people or.
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Max Grover
They share sales with you as far as. No. No. Okay.
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Chris Prins
Okay. So you guys don't, like, require anyone in your out lots to, like report sales or anything like that?
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Kurt Adams
No, that's good.
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Max Grover
Is that is that could be really interesting, but it's probably almost impossible to get anybody to agree to that, too.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah. Nowadays with the tools that we have, I mean, we get a general.
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Max Grover
Traffic.
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Kurt Adams
Traffic and everything else. So they're misusing.
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Max Grover
Cell phone data that you're buying, etc..
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Kurt Adams
Place area. Yeah.
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Chris Prins
Yeah, that's a crazy tool. It's a great tool. But before your Myer days, rewind a little bit, how did you get into real estate and kind of what's your background? Where'd you grow up?
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Start from the beginning. As I say, all denied. Ever do this?
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Kurt Adams
Yeah, I well, I grew up in Allen, Michigan. I started working construction when I was like 14. My dad was a plumber and a carpenter. He was building a house down the road and got sick of me sitting around for the summer. So he got me a job. I worked all the way through high school. Then all the way through college, working construction for the same guy.
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Kurt Adams
By the time I got into college, he was actually going out building work for the summers just so that I could run the work. I specialized in general trades. Schools work when I graduated from college with a biology pre-med degree from Adrian.
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Chris Prins
Very useful.
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Kurt Adams
Yes. Yes. You can see how an.
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Max Grover
Allergy degree from Adrian. Yeah. Okay. You're a bulldog.
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Kurt Adams
Yes, I'm a bulldog.
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Max Grover
Okay. Did they have their hockey program when you were there? No.
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Kurt Adams
They didn't have any of that cool stuff when I was there.
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Max Grover
Have you been in the rink? So, yeah, it's beautiful.
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Kurt Adams
The rinks. Well, I'm at restaurants. Beautiful.
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Yeah.
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Chris Prins
So Max is a big hockey player.
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You play the boys?
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Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Chris Prins
Still is.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah. So ultimately, you know, coming out of college, my options were to go to school and rack up two more years of debt. Getting the master's degree to keep pursuing medicine. By the time I figured out I really didn't like blood that much, but kind of didn't help. So end up moving over here to Grand Rapids with my wife.
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Kurt Adams
She wasn't my wife at the time. Wife to be, and then ended up going to work for a small company. Janie integrated just, you know, one of those great companies that allowed me to kind of flourish. And I kept growing and growing. And the opportunity came up to go to work for Bob Gruters went to work for Bob Gruters, and that's where I really picked up, you know, on the real estate and property management side.
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Chris Prins
And then Bob Gruters, did you go what was the journey after that better job?
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Kurt Adams
Bob Gruters Up until 2008, I think you're reading those were in 2008.
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Max Grover
Yeah, Yeah, we talked about that.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah.
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Max Grover
It comes up every once in a while.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then from there I went to a Wolverine building group and. Okay, from Wolverine Building Group. One of the individuals I knew that I worked with at Gruters had already gone to Myer and he knew that I wanted to get back in the development real estate side, so he ended up pulling me into Myer.
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Max Grover
Were you doing project management for Wolverine building or what were you doing there?
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Kurt Adams
So, you know, Wolverine Building Group at the time was kind of set up on, you know, you were kind of your own entity, so you go out and find your own work and. Yep. So, you know, I was very much build the suit oriented. I really liked once again, even at Wolverine, that development side. So finding somebody that had dirt and wanted to go through wouldn't start.
00;05;54;05 - 00;06;03;26
Max Grover
The only reason I'm texting right now, Daryl's Daryl's calling me right now that morning. Yes, I got to take a picture. Send them a picture of.
00;06;03;28 - 00;06;09;05
I had texting Daryl, picture. So love it. You'll love it.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it was just that development side that I really liked. And once again, I was able to be quite successful at Wolverine and picked on some really good clients while I was there. And what kind of.
00;06;23;14 - 00;06;28;25
Max Grover
What kind of things were you working on? There was a continuation of industrial based on girders and.
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Kurt Adams
It was probably 75% industrial, 25% commercial. Okay, yeah, yeah.
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Max Grover
And spec.
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Kurt Adams
Or.
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Max Grover
No ten in hand.
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Kurt Adams
And all of the tenant in hand build the suit. A lot of you know, towards the very end I'd picked up you know Perrigo account so I was doing quite a bit of work for Perrigo and you know, really focused And we just went to.
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Max Grover
We just went to their headquarters. They, they had like an open house. Have you been to their downtown?
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Kurt Adams
No.
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Chris Prins
It's impressive.
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Kurt Adams
No, that wasn't even in those days. That wasn't even.
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Max Grover
Is. Oh, it's absolutely wild. I mean, it's like nap pods and quiet rooms.
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Kurt Adams
Maybe I need to get over there. Take a look. Yeah.
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It's absolutely.
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Max Grover
Beautiful.
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Chris Prins
It's going to enter the windows.
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Max Grover
Through and like.
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Chris Prins
The quiet room.
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Max Grover
They have, like, a conference table. That's 50 people, maybe. And then they they said that if you're sitting in the end chair if you wanted in my or probably has a stoop, but it's like you can shut it off and it's just like that one. It looks like there's one person, even though the whole table could be filled with, I'm sure attorneys, U.S. attorneys.
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Max Grover
And it looks like it's just one on one meeting.
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Like when the FDA.
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Chris Prins
Calls.
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In.
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Max Grover
It's wild. It was beautiful space. So super well thought through.
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Chris Prins
So what was your territory range then when you were at Wolverine and Gruters?
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Kurt Adams
You know, Gruters is regional. Yeah, local Wolverine. I traveled all over the place. I did some work for Taco Bell. I was there in Ohio, Elmira, Ohio. Yeah, Chicago. Did you do.
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Max Grover
Bowling Green, Ohio? No, just like, supposedly, like one of the busiest Taco bell's in the country to. No, not. I don't know. I would know.
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Chris Prins
What was the typical build time for like a Taco Bell back Things I've heard like the fastest was like 45 days, which I can't even imagine someone building a Taco Bell.
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Kurt Adams
I think my shortest time, I think was 56 cheese.
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Chris Prins
From shoveling the dirt to opening.
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Kurt Adams
That. Wow. Yeah. You had to have a team. Yeah, even I had a team of people who were willing to drive within four or five states, and you had to have it because it was like cookie cutter.
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Chris Prins
Yeah.
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Max Grover
That's. That's incredible. Delivering walls and just tilt up and go. Or No.
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Chris Prins
I wasn't like that back then. You tried to build up personalized.
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Kurt Adams
A lot of it was wood structure. So it was, it was, you know, penalize walls. You know, they come in on a truck and you had to be ready for them. When they came in, there was times you may not have your sub base ready inside and you were still putting up walls and weaving sections out.
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And.
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Max Grover
That's it. That's absolutely the has to be like slightly stressful.
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Kurt Adams
It takes a really good superintendent and it takes a really good team of contractors.
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Max Grover
But even then, there's a lot of things that would be completely out of your control in some situations, like landlord that maybe doesn't have the rest of the building done or yeah, site constraints and some wires permitting from this city. Well.
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Chris Prins
Weather conditions.
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Max Grover
Weather conditions, sure.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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Max Grover
And then your team, your guys, your subs were you said they would travel for states, no questions asked. Let's roll.
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Kurt Adams
Yep.
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Max Grover
Onto the next one.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah. And there was only a couple of them from West Michigan. All the rest of them, you just kind of picked up and it'd be good. He just kept dragging them along. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah.
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Max Grover
That's pretty cool.
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Kurt Adams
All that thanks to a shout out to Mike Housman.
00;10;07;01 - 00;10;08;19
Chris Prins
I was going to say that Mike Housman did.
00;10;08;20 - 00;10;10;01
Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Chris Prins
Did you ever work for Tony Bissell?
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Kurt Adams
Never directly, Yeah. I always let Mike deal with that side.
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Yeah.
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Chris Prins
I know. He was Mr. Taco Bell on the back of the woods for a long, long time.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah.
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Max Grover
Yeah. He and he. Yeah, he's still. I mean, he's still doing a ton of that too with in, through Wolverine. Yeah, I think so. Construction.
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Kurt Adams
Yeah. They're the ones who, they're the ones who built a Taco Bell up in front of our Rockford store.
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Max Grover
Yeah. That's going to crush.
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Kurt Adams
They're going to.
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Chris Prins
Get is going to be that one in that Culver's. They're going, I think extremely well.
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Max Grover
They're no competition and a ton of rooftops and there's just not Yeah.
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Kurt Adams
And no land.
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Max Grover
Yeah that's Yes, I'm. That keeps the competition out because there's just a ton of people and I'm sure Chris knows even more than I do that want to be in that market and just Sorry.
00;10;58;15 - 00;11;04;09
Chris Prins
No space. So how long were you a Wolverine then?
00;11;04;12 - 00;11;07;22
Kurt Adams
Eight years. Seven years, somewhere around there. Okay.
00;11;07;24 - 00;11;12;05
Chris Prins
So because you went from oh eight, you probably got out of girders, right? And then.
00;11;12;07 - 00;11;13;01
Kurt Adams
Oh, 14.
00;11;13;02 - 00;11;19;26
Chris Prins
Of two and then a year. And then when you went to Meyer, did you become right away director of property management there? What was the progress?
00;11;19;26 - 00;11;25;08
Kurt Adams
No, I was a real estate manager. Yeah. So I spent a year, year and a half at real estate manager.
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Max Grover
And was that something that you proactively went out for, like headhunter? How did that transpire? That from the the jumped over into an individual?
00;11;35;07 - 00;11;44;06
Kurt Adams
I'd worked with a gruters I've gone to Meyer. He was in the role that I am in now. Oh cool. He brought me into work as a real estate manager so.
00;11;44;06 - 00;11;44;23
That.
00;11;44;26 - 00;12;12;19
Kurt Adams
Once again I like development and I like the opportunity. So that's fun. And then it took about three weeks before they realized that I had construction experience. So then they put me finishing a tunnel that was three months behind schedule and $2 million over budget. And then I went from that to running HQ. So and then I went from that to renovating our 1985 building on Walker Avenue.
00;12;12;19 - 00;12;19;09
Kurt Adams
Yeah. So from since then, it's been. Yeah. For assortment of property management and real estate. Yeah.
00;12;19;13 - 00;12;24;26
Max Grover
There has to be like when you do a story model too, that just has to be.
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Kurt Adams
So that's the.
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Max Grover
Planning and everything.
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Kurt Adams
That goes with my job. I have nothing to do with retail.
00;12;30;08 - 00;12;31;17
Max Grover
Okay? You know, I.
00;12;31;17 - 00;12;49;04
Kurt Adams
Really, I, I don't have maintenance of the retail. I don't have a new site acquisitions. That's one of my peers in the office. My only interaction with retail is is the sales and the in-store tenant program. Okay. So yeah, that's perfect.
00;12;49;04 - 00;12;49;22
Chris Prins
That's it. Yeah.
00;12;49;22 - 00;12;58;08
Max Grover
So you're working and you're working with if Starbucks has a spot in the store or Subway or whoever and then out lot sales.
00;12;58;08 - 00;13;01;12
Kurt Adams
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Very cool.
00;13;01;14 - 00;13;15;03
Max Grover
How, how are, how I always kind of wonder that like in-store performance versus like X year drive thru for some of the coffee shops and stuff. Is it, is it super beneficial to be inside those?
00;13;15;05 - 00;13;36;18
Kurt Adams
I would say it takes the right it takes the right company inside to be able to make it work. We have a little better luck with hyperlocal than we do with the Nationals in particular. If there's a drive thru within the research we've done says about a mile and a half. So if a Starbucks drive thru goes in within a mile and a half of one of our stores, they're.
00;13;36;18 - 00;13;38;03
Max Grover
Going to hit the drive as opposed.
00;13;38;03 - 00;13;42;00
Kurt Adams
To it just it decimates the traffic that you have for coffee.
00;13;42;02 - 00;13;51;03
Max Grover
Interesting. And then a lot of lenders inside as well. Neilsen on what other types used.
00;13;51;03 - 00;13;52;09
Kurt Adams
To have a lot of lenders.
00;13;52;10 - 00;13;58;26
Chris Prins
Because you had. Huntington Right and they they all just kind of did the whole once they merged. Yeah the disband and close some locations.
00;13;59;00 - 00;14;00;26
Kurt Adams
Closed a lot of locations Yeah.
00;14;00;26 - 00;14;07;03
Max Grover
So what other types of tenant I'm just curious like all the types of tenancy in store that flourish or do. Well, we're.
00;14;07;03 - 00;14;31;25
Kurt Adams
Gaining good traction right now with credit unions. Oh, sure. They really they align a little better to us than than the large nationals anyways. You know, they're community focused and all those other things. So yeah, we're growing with the credit unions right now, Frankenmuth, Michigan, first teachers. So that's going well. Pet Services Council, this will still be it's a growing segment.
00;14;31;28 - 00;14;32;20
Max Grover
Sure.
00;14;32;22 - 00;14;37;24
Kurt Adams
Yeah. It's almost like everybody's trying to figure out what the end model is going to be.
00;14;38;00 - 00;14;38;20
Max Grover
That makes sense.
00;14;38;23 - 00;15;00;21
Kurt Adams
So, you know, we had we started with, you know, full that services with that IQ and now they're taking on some more additional services, complimentary services, washing, grooming and those others. Then you've got some that are mixing some retail high end sales, you know foods and some of these more specific products. But again, again, they're kind of mixing in with that whole grooming.
00;15;00;21 - 00;15;09;18
Kurt Adams
And so it's going to be interesting to see. It's going to be a dynamic market for the next two or three years until finally one model kind of sorts itself.
00;15;09;20 - 00;15;12;22
Max Grover
Somebody somebody figures out the right process, right?
00;15;12;23 - 00;15;37;01
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00;15;43;02 - 00;16;00;12
Chris Prins
When did Meyer You may not know this, but when did Meyer start doing kind of some of those I guess, sublease spaces within their buildings like the former bank credit unions, the coffee shops. Because I assume when Fred built the first store, he didn't say, okay, well, I want to, you know, a coffee shop here, credit unions, It's more of a grocery store concept.
00;16;00;14 - 00;16;26;14
Kurt Adams
So actually dating back to like the first locations, they had their own cafeteria, their own food service. They had cow, they had you know, they had those amenities in there. It wasn't probably really a priority, I don't know, a specific date, but it was probably early 2000 that, you know, it kind of became a lot of our early generation stores.
00;16;26;16 - 00;16;39;25
Kurt Adams
The tenant space was forced in because we had available space, unlike, you know, from the time I've been there. Two 2014, it's always been designed in. So yeah.
00;16;39;27 - 00;16;52;11
Chris Prins
I've always said, I've heard Mariano's does this and Chicago, you need to put like a bar in one of your stores just to give him the times. Like the husbands that don't want to shop, stick them behind the bar, put some sports on the wife, go shops.
00;16;52;13 - 00;16;55;08
Kurt Adams
Yeah, Publix. They've done that too.
00;16;55;10 - 00;16;58;08
Max Grover
Yeah. I still don't think I'd go shopping.
00;16;58;10 - 00;17;00;26
I know it's going be go to the gym.
00;17;00;28 - 00;17;12;26
Kurt Adams
I Yeah, from what I've seen, that was a concept that kind of came out and it hasn't really gained any traction within the industry. So yeah, that generally would indicate to me that it's not a moneymaker.
00;17;12;28 - 00;17;15;21
Chris Prins
Not profitable for them.
00;17;15;23 - 00;17;17;02
Max Grover
Then let's try marijuana.
00;17;17;02 - 00;17;21;07
Dispensaries.
00;17;21;09 - 00;17;36;29
Max Grover
You guys, I'm sure you guys had, especially when like the Michigan not to go totally off the rails or anything but when the when that all came to fruition, I'm sure you guys were getting calls like crazy or not really. It was just a fine line of no right away.
00;17;37;01 - 00;17;51;13
Kurt Adams
Most everybody in particular, like outlets that were out in front of our stores that we'd sold in the past, we already had that as a, you know, an excluded use. So everybody knew what our position was going to be. We've been pretty steady on that.
00;17;51;16 - 00;17;53;09
Max Grover
So not so much.
00;17;53;16 - 00;18;04;03
Kurt Adams
Not so much. We've had a couple of municipalities try to, you know, maneuver us a little bit to try to get us to approve them on adjoining lots. And it's like, no, no.
00;18;04;05 - 00;18;19;14
Max Grover
And then with without a lot and being in charge of that and the development in the last just sort of like in the last year, are you seeing are things still driving and moving on those out lots around the country or is it starting to slow down a little bit?
00;18;19;16 - 00;18;45;03
Kurt Adams
So surprisingly, things are moving relatively well. What we keep hearing are the flags are out there. I keep hearing that, you know, lenders are really getting tight. It's taking a lot more money on the developer side to be able to move, you know, projects forward. So, you know, we're still going to have, you know, our our nationals, you know, that are single use that are going to continue moving forward even though construction costs are sky high.
00;18;45;03 - 00;18;46;29
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah.
00;18;47;01 - 00;18;57;21
Kurt Adams
I think we're we're really going to start to see some challenges as things start to normalize, I guess is what I'm told at this point is probably going to be in the multi-tenant.
00;18;57;24 - 00;19;24;12
Max Grover
That and in that goes to one of the major out lots that we were working on. And essentially I don't want to get into a completely because it's not done, but I mean, it was going to be a multi kind of building and and then all of a sudden now a single user came through and it's with the financing pressure, with the with the construction costs, everything keep kept creeping up.
00;19;24;12 - 00;19;41;21
Max Grover
It's like it almost it just makes it a lot easier and smoother to try and put that single tenant in and train line up because you're breaking ground it okay, maybe you get 50% pre-leased to break ground and start going, Well, that doesn't even work anymore now, right? So, yeah, I could definitely see that.
00;19;41;24 - 00;19;42;23
I think it's your thing too.
00;19;42;23 - 00;19;44;09
Max Grover
It's a quick service. I mean, in.
00;19;44;16 - 00;20;07;09
Chris Prins
The quick service restaurants and it's kind of some of those publicly traded companies like Advance Auto, AutoZone, but they have to hit a certain store growth just for stock price reasons. So you kind of can probably bank on some deals. But with so few of those concepts due to say, hey, some point they have to grow, they have to take this land and it's probably easier deal for you guys to to say, let's just sell to one user rather than the developer and try to get him to least.
00;20;07;12 - 00;20;19;21
Kurt Adams
Yeah, No I, you know, we like a mix out in front of our stores. We like the multi-tenant buildings because one developer can come in and provide, you know, four different offerings that provide amenities to the same people at shop in our stores.
00;20;19;24 - 00;20;20;26
Max Grover
Drive them foot traffic.
00;20;20;27 - 00;20;37;13
Kurt Adams
Yeah, drive and foot traffic and but, you know, I think we're going to get to the point where a lot of developers don't have the cash to put in the deal to get the financing that they need. Not to mention they're having a hard time getting it the pro forma anyways because of the high construction cost.
00;20;37;18 - 00;20;49;27
Max Grover
You're speaking at an all time high lease rate with interest rates that are only going up and you're not locking. There's lenders that will, but you're not for most lenders, you're not locking until the construction's done so.
00;20;49;27 - 00;21;04;18
Kurt Adams
Right. Yeah. So we're we're you know, Matt and I, we talk about it weekly. You know, we're watching our numbers really closely as it relates to, you know, where our sales are going. And so, you know, it's definitely something we'll continue to monitor.
00;21;04;20 - 00;21;29;00
Max Grover
And and with that to with from your guys's outlook on it, like for for us like we think is it user driven for you guys? Like is it more important and who's going to drive the most foot traffic to your store or how are you making decisions on who goes on that a lot is it, hey, they're hitting our sale price and so it moves or what drives that decision?
00;21;29;01 - 00;21;47;27
Kurt Adams
A lot of that depends on the market. So if we're going into a greenfield site in the greenfield area, anything I can put in there is going to help drive traffic on the front, know on the front end by being a little less selective, we're able to drive the traffic, also drive up market rates a little bit. Yeah.
00;21;47;29 - 00;21;58;17
Kurt Adams
Never hurts. Yeah, but, you know, then again, we have other locations. You know, Westfield, Indiana is a prime example. I got one land left. We're going to be very, very selective on what we do with that lot.
00;21;58;25 - 00;21;59;19
Chris Prins
Yeah.
00;21;59;22 - 00;22;06;10
Kurt Adams
You know, it is going to be maximizing the value to the store, to the community. And we put in there.
00;22;06;12 - 00;22;30;14
Max Grover
And then the that especially with your background in development, I'm sure this conversations had to come up like, does Maya ever consider getting into the in your already doing it across the country you're putting the infrastructure in. You're doing a lot of the hard part. You've got the main driver of Maya. Do you guys ever think about like, Hey, like Maya is going to jump into the development game and start doing some of these, build the suits or anything like that?
00;22;30;16 - 00;22;33;20
Kurt Adams
We may talk about.
00;22;33;22 - 00;22;35;08
How could it not come up?
00;22;35;10 - 00;22;40;01
Chris Prins
Yeah, that would be well, especially or even the easier way. Just do a ground. Yeah, I guess so.
00;22;40;01 - 00;22;45;03
Kurt Adams
Ground leasing our definitely becoming more prevalent within our portfolio. Yeah. We are doing.
00;22;45;03 - 00;22;46;21
Max Grover
That's a terrible idea by the way.
00;22;46;23 - 00;22;48;29
I, you know, I think that's a terrible idea.
00;22;48;29 - 00;23;12;14
Kurt Adams
Any, you know, any multitenant developers going to think that's a terrible idea. But you know, what we've seen time and time again is, you know, our stores operate for a very, very long time. You know, we're not like a car wash that has, what, a 25, 30 year lifespan. I mean, we've got stores out there that are, you know, getting up 40, 50 years old, you by ground leasing, we're able to protect our property a little better.
00;23;12;21 - 00;23;27;03
Kurt Adams
So, you know, I can give you a bunch of instances where properties have sold two or three times. We lose track, we've got easements, agreement. It creates a lot of issues with tracking down who the new owners are. Not to mention you lose some of that protection. I was going.
00;23;27;03 - 00;23;43;22
Max Grover
Even even probably just deal like, hey, like I sold to Chris. I know Chris is a good landlord. He's going to be good to work with. He's going to be amenable if I have to come to him for something that was not luck. But after two three for sale, right? You don't even know. Yeah, it could just be.
00;23;43;22 - 00;24;00;26
Kurt Adams
It just sells again and we don't know and we send out our, you know, cash and easement billing. It's beginning of the year and it comes back non returnable or you know, return to sender. It's like yeah, yeah. You're required by the, by the agreement by the original sales agreement to notify us but you don't. And so then you got a start.
00;24;00;26 - 00;24;02;28
Max Grover
That's good to know. You can just say just.
00;24;03;05 - 00;24;04;24
Kurt Adams
Trust me, we track them down.
00;24;04;27 - 00;24;05;20
If you find them.
00;24;05;26 - 00;24;06;26
Kurt Adams
We track them down.
00;24;07;00 - 00;24;07;12
Not sure.
00;24;07;12 - 00;24;24;19
Chris Prins
You. I was also thinking to if if like a concept goes out, say a restaurant goes out or I assume back in the day you might have had some strip centers had like a blockbuster or something that goes dark and maybe you have an out-of-state investor who just doesn't care. An empty building probably doesn't do any good service to your the store behind it either, too, right?
00;24;24;22 - 00;24;27;22
Chris Prins
You have overgrown weeds that's just deteriorating or.
00;24;27;27 - 00;24;35;15
Max Grover
Even just a dark store. I mean, do you put pressure on those guys? Is there any way to put pressure on them right now or just so it is.
00;24;35;18 - 00;24;51;23
Kurt Adams
They have you know, they got to maintain their property? Correct. We really don't have a means by putting pressure. We have done and asked some of them if they'd be willing to sell back. So, I mean, we have had situations like that, but now we kind of lose. And that's part of the reason why we're shifting more to ground leases.
00;24;51;23 - 00;24;56;04
Kurt Adams
We have lost a lot of our ability for leverage. Yeah. Okay.
00;24;56;06 - 00;25;07;21
Chris Prins
So what about from the headquarters standpoint? Talk to me. You know, pre-COVID, how many employees did you have there? And then what did it look like once COVID broke out? And then what's it look like today?
00;25;07;23 - 00;25;38;10
Kurt Adams
So we were 25, 2600, pre-COVID, we're about 1800 now. We're on a hybrid work schedule. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and the office Thursday, Friday, optional work from home. It's changed dramatically. I mean, it's I still I walk around our office in amazement at how much share we were able to accomplish over COVID and just how much different everything operates.
00;25;38;16 - 00;26;11;04
Kurt Adams
So, you know, just like a lot of different people, Biophilia a fancy word for green plants. You know, we introduced a lot of, you know, planning biofuel within our office. We reconfigured a lot of spaces so that we have, you know, private heads down space. We went through, modified some of our conference rooms to more like living room style with couches, soft seating really enhanced our collaboration areas, obviously switched all of our technology over to teams, technology and all of our conference rooms.
00;26;11;11 - 00;26;26;10
Kurt Adams
Yeah, so huge transition. You know, I would like to think that in an end state we probably would have ended here regardless of COVID. It's just it made it go a fast track.
00;26;26;13 - 00;26;29;18
Chris Prins
It gave me the opportunity to make those moves, right?
00;26;29;21 - 00;26;30;11
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;26;30;13 - 00;26;56;03
Max Grover
And, and we've talked about that too, in the past. And so I'm one of the two of the past episodes where some of the big companies were able to make those changes quicker and implement them or some of the smaller call me and Paul type companies, I mean, they just don't have the infrastructure to be able to make those changes and, you know, spend the money on technology or furniture or whatever might be renovating the space to be more collaborative.
00;26;56;03 - 00;27;11;09
Max Grover
Like so those companies seem to be going back into the office quicker, whereas now you're three days a week in the office and yeah, part time virtual and it probably don't miss a beat.
00;27;11;12 - 00;27;45;16
Kurt Adams
No, it's through COVID. Yeah. So I mean, a number of different companies formed a cohort. So we were talking at least while at the beginning of COVID, we were talking once every other week. Then we kind of space it out once a month, but it was more or less to figure out what we were all doing. So, you know, Amway, Herman Miller, Hayward, Steelcase, US Farmers Insurance by not missing somebody, but Bissell, Bissell Yeah, you know, it was a great resource for all of us.
00;27;45;16 - 00;28;05;26
Kurt Adams
We're all struggling to do the same thing. We were all trying to figure out the same issues and you have this h.r. Influence and you've got this facilities in influence. And how do you how does everybody get on the same page? And luckily enough, steelcase was on the cutting edge. Steelcase was adamant that, you know, their office is their showroom, that they were coming back into the office.
00;28;05;26 - 00;28;30;14
Kurt Adams
And so, you know, I had good contacts there. We were able to kind of learn from what they were doing. And then in reality, we were like, second to like implement. And some of that had to do with, you know, we buy a lot of our furniture from Steelcase and share that relationship with Kuster. So, you know, we just started we had one area of one building that was underutilized and we called it a playground.
00;28;30;16 - 00;28;46;27
Kurt Adams
So we just play with different concepts. We get a concept done. We bring leadership over to have them take a look at it. And so, yeah, it worked out really well. And it just goes to show that, you know, collaboration on a much higher level works it in.
00;28;46;27 - 00;28;55;11
Max Grover
Meier was one of the companies I'm assuming that grew during COVID as well, right? I mean a lot of the grocery chains to do very well during.
00;28;55;14 - 00;29;27;26
Kurt Adams
Yeah I wouldn't say you know growth is it growth is pretty steady. You know you had stores and you grow and you know it created a lot of stress through COVID with supply chain struggles and everything else. But there wasn't like really large growth as it relates to manpower. It was just, you know, this is what we have to do, you know, and working for, you know, private family run company, it's all about the community.
00;29;27;26 - 00;29;36;10
Kurt Adams
What are we going to do to get the product on the shelves so that we're providing that for our customers? Yeah, yeah.
00;29;36;13 - 00;29;48;11
Max Grover
Yeah. There is probably some pressure through that. I didn't even think about that until you just said that the pressure to get the toilet paper to get the meat, to get the eggs, the milk fat, the baby formula.
00;29;48;14 - 00;29;48;24
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;29;48;26 - 00;29;50;00
Chris Prins
Just the necessities.
00;29;50;06 - 00;29;50;11
Is.
00;29;50;13 - 00;29;54;11
Max Grover
In the front. Throw the pharmacy in there too. And how to keep that operating. That had to be.
00;29;54;18 - 00;29;54;27
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;29;55;04 - 00;30;15;12
Chris Prins
I had another friend of mine who works for another large company in West Michigan, and he talked about the difficulty because they have a huge manufacturing aspect and he's like, It was hard because we as people who worked in the office wouldn't go in the office. But yeah, we were telling our the individuals who work in the manufacturing that you need to you need to go to work engineer thing during COVID.
00;30;15;14 - 00;30;27;02
Chris Prins
Was that at all difficult from a store standpoint? I am like, okay, we're going to close the office, but obviously the stores can't close just because it's a necessity for the greater population. I guess at the end of the.
00;30;27;02 - 00;30;50;06
Kurt Adams
Day, yeah, once again, we were so focused on, you know, serving our stores, serving the communities. I mean, that's just our whole mission is, you know, you know, just that. So there wasn't really a lot of those issues. I mean, you know, we had to open every day because people needed a place to buy their groceries. And, you know, we just one of those things we manage through.
00;30;50;11 - 00;30;57;20
Max Grover
Yeah, yeah. There's not really a choice, Right? Right. I mean, yeah, just yeah, decisions have to be made and go or. Yeah.
00;30;57;22 - 00;31;13;02
Kurt Adams
Yeah. So in there for a long time during their I mean they had an increase in pay, you know, it was basic. So you know there were a lot of people that you know, kind of appreciated from a corporate perspective what we were willing to do to, to make sure we're meeting. Yeah.
00;31;13;07 - 00;31;20;08
Max Grover
And I'm sure a lot of them would choose to work in that sector. Did choose to work over not not right. Right. And everyone has that choice.
00;31;20;08 - 00;31;20;14
Chris Prins
Yeah.
00;31;20;15 - 00;31;22;03
Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;31;22;07 - 00;31;34;19
Chris Prins
So out of those 1800 employees who work at the corporate office, how many would you say are coming in at this point on Thursday and Friday? And do you see that it's finally ticking up or is that just a summer thing? You know, it's.
00;31;34;19 - 00;32;01;24
Kurt Adams
It's, it's pretty consistent. It's it's fairly low. Um, you know, people make a conscious effort not to schedule in-person meetings on Thursday Fridays. I think the team really, truly appreciates the flexibility to be able to come in if they want to or not. I know from a, you know, facility management perspective, it's great because it gives us Thursday and Friday to do work that we normally have projects or whatever.
00;32;01;25 - 00;32;02;27
Yeah, yeah.
00;32;02;29 - 00;32;03;08
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;32;03;09 - 00;32;04;15
Chris Prins
So building maintenance, yeah.
00;32;04;15 - 00;32;14;28
Kurt Adams
It's worked out well from that perspective, but we really haven't seen an uptick in people coming in the office. You still drive by our campus on a Thursday or Friday and it's really light.
00;32;14;28 - 00;32;21;20
Chris Prins
Yeah, and I assume that's probably similar to the other companies that you mentioned earlier too. They're probably seeing if they do a three day workweek and stuff.
00;32;21;21 - 00;32;38;05
Kurt Adams
Yeah, there aren't very the companies are still very scattered on whether or not they required work in the office, whether they're in a hybrid model. The one thing that's definitive about our hybrid model is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. The expectation is, is that you are in the office.
00;32;38;09 - 00;32;53;15
Chris Prins
Yeah. Which I do think we've talked about an earlier podcast this that collaboration aspect because how else are you supposed to formulate culture when you grab a kid from college, whether it's him or her And then I'll son how do you how do you learn what the organization's like? How do you formulate that?
00;32;53;18 - 00;33;17;18
Kurt Adams
Yeah, and, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays in our office are very dynamic. I mean, it's it's hard to find a collaboration area or one of those soft seating zones that don't have people in them. I mean, it's when people schedule all of their face to face meetings. We've developed some new highly collaborative conference rooms that are always filled on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
00;33;17;21 - 00;33;37;28
Kurt Adams
You know, it works out. It's fun. All the events that we have on campus, because we've made it a point to make sure that we're maintaining those social events on campus as well. All of those are happening on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. One of the crazy thing that's come out of COVID is our events that we have on campus have increased dramatically.
00;33;38;00 - 00;33;40;00
Kurt Adams
But really.
00;33;40;03 - 00;33;42;24
Chris Prins
So what type of events do you do?
00;33;42;27 - 00;33;59;15
Kurt Adams
Mostly, you know, let's see, we have vendor events. We have we had an event for LPGA, you know, team member event. We've got one coming up, which is, you know, our summer bash, which is, you know, a team member event in the car. My mom.
00;33;59;15 - 00;34;00;27
Max Grover
Went to Wolf of Wall Street right.
00;34;00;27 - 00;34;05;11
Away. So, yeah, we just.
00;34;05;11 - 00;34;09;23
Kurt Adams
We just have these events and, you know, it keeps the office more dynamic.
00;34;09;23 - 00;34;10;27
Max Grover
Sure.
00;34;10;29 - 00;34;33;09
Kurt Adams
But it's also created a lot of challenges on the facility management side because, you know, how do you how do you manage those now? They've increased, you know, year over year from last year. They'd gone up 144%. Wow. So it's like, okay, how do you start managing when you have this many events? You don't have extra budget for your for your cleaning crew, which has to manage these.
00;34;33;09 - 00;34;49;13
Kurt Adams
Yeah, you're set up crews. And so it makes for a lot more I mean, once again, it makes for a more dynamic work environment. Yeah, you know, we have a great relatively young team member base. They truly enjoy these events. So how.
00;34;49;14 - 00;34;54;11
Max Grover
How big is your team, the real estate team with our lots and install service.
00;34;54;17 - 00;35;00;19
Kurt Adams
So within my team I have one, two, three, four.
00;35;00;21 - 00;35;20;22
Max Grover
Go and I know I've talked to Matt in the past about this. My level and I almost puked at the amount of deals that he had in process and pipeline is like and he's like, it's basically I remember him saying it was like three or four people and a massive amount of deals. And by in the pipeline tracking, it's basically math.
00;35;20;24 - 00;35;25;06
Kurt Adams
A paralegal and an attorney. Wow. That's what it is.
00;35;25;09 - 00;35;26;08
Max Grover
That's absolutely.
00;35;26;08 - 00;35;27;11
Kurt Adams
While yeah.
00;35;27;15 - 00;35;29;26
Chris Prins
And they handle all like the in-store leases to them.
00;35;29;27 - 00;35;40;06
Kurt Adams
No no that's in store as a separate individual. So on the in-store side, I have my leasing manager and then I have a property management specialist. Wow.
00;35;40;08 - 00;35;43;13
Chris Prins
That's still a lot, though, when you think about all the in-store leases you have and I.
00;35;43;13 - 00;35;46;11
Kurt Adams
Think 540 tenants.
00;35;46;13 - 00;35;54;03
Max Grover
And my goodness, how many how many stores are you guys up to or do know the amount? A lot. So even have at this point, like top your head.
00;35;54;03 - 00;35;55;04
Kurt Adams
Man does he.
00;35;55;04 - 00;35;56;18
Max Grover
Does he could be like these the.
00;35;56;19 - 00;35;59;18
Kurt Adams
Better.
00;35;59;21 - 00;36;07;20
We'll pass along his personal views on it. Maybe we should call right now. Fine. But hey, man, how many lots? You know, right now.
00;36;07;20 - 00;36;22;25
Kurt Adams
I know he does, because he's got him classified between a lot to be lots. And see a lot. Okay, So, you know, that's one of the things that we have to do within our projections is we have to have a relative idea of, you know, our inventory of lots that we have. Mm hmm.
00;36;22;28 - 00;36;44;02
Max Grover
And and that's something probably interesting that you guys operate in a different way and different mindset to where it'd be like, very focused on like, okay, if we sell this, this is going to make X amount of money. We're like, I'm sure there is focus on that for the real estate department that lot. But that's not the the big shovel moving the needle either.
00;36;44;02 - 00;36;50;16
Max Grover
So is how important is that to decide we have to sell this or we need to sell this or we'll hold this in a perpetuity.
00;36;50;18 - 00;36;54;28
Kurt Adams
Back to Matt. It drives him absolutely crazy. And it's just it's one of those and.
00;36;54;28 - 00;36;57;02
We should have it is is and.
00;36;57;04 - 00;37;09;01
Kurt Adams
It's not it's not unusual within the corporate real estate world. I mean, you know, corporate real real estate is a different world altogether. Yeah. You know, help put a deal together and I'll just know I don't like it.
00;37;09;03 - 00;37;09;22
Chris Prins
It's not going to work.
00;37;09;22 - 00;37;13;27
Kurt Adams
Yeah. You know, whether it's use or whether it's, you know, the price.
00;37;13;27 - 00;37;16;05
Max Grover
Or whatever or that you had to deal with.
00;37;16;05 - 00;37;18;16
Kurt Adams
That. Yeah. It's just like no.
00;37;18;18 - 00;37;21;16
Max Grover
So yeah. So I'm like two decisions away from me. And on that black.
00;37;21;19 - 00;37;29;17
Also, we're not sure that we've got plenty of enemies. We get there.
00;37;29;19 - 00;37;37;23
Kurt Adams
I just remember the way I knew you was. You bailed from the Hudsonville project twice.
00;37;37;25 - 00;37;40;02
Yeah, it's a.
00;37;40;02 - 00;37;42;00
Max Grover
It's a long game. We're here for the long game.
00;37;42;03 - 00;37;50;25
Chris Prins
So I will say this timing's right. Is there one tenant or one buyer user out there? That's just the easiest to work with from an outlaw perspective.
00;37;51;00 - 00;37;54;20
Kurt Adams
We have. We have a couple. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't.
00;37;54;26 - 00;38;06;28
Max Grover
Yeah, that's fine. What about any cool new uses coming to my outlets that you're excited about that you can talk about? Even Maybe they're at different sites they're just doing while growing and seeing them buy it more.
00;38;07;01 - 00;38;11;16
Kurt Adams
No I think the new the new coffee models, the.
00;38;11;23 - 00;38;14;05
Max Grover
Like this scooters scooters. You know.
00;38;14;05 - 00;38;25;12
Kurt Adams
Those those are a really interesting concept. And I think they're going I think they're going to have staying power. You know, they're going on postage stamp sized parcel.
00;38;25;15 - 00;38;29;28
Max Grover
Have you seen the one now in Cascade in front of Tommy's carwash?
00;38;30;01 - 00;38;31;12
Kurt Adams
I haven't seen that they fit.
00;38;31;12 - 00;38;34;24
Max Grover
They fit a Scooter's coffee, like right in front of the Tommy's car.
00;38;34;24 - 00;38;36;12
Chris Prins
So once you get done with your car, well.
00;38;36;12 - 00;38;40;28
Max Grover
Yeah, And they're in their colors almost match. And it it looks pretty sharp.
00;38;41;01 - 00;39;02;28
Kurt Adams
Yeah. And you know, it it's a use the people are going to gravitate to. I mean, it's, it's super convenient. Once again it goes on a postage stamp sized parcel. So the what they're paying isn't that great. You know, most of them are owning real estate. They're all grown leases. It's a it's a, you know, really good concept.
00;39;03;00 - 00;39;14;13
Kurt Adams
You know, we've had a great partner in Big B cubed for I think we've been doing them for three or four years now. And now that you've got scooters and oh, what's the new one that's coming from South right now?
00;39;14;15 - 00;39;15;16
Max Grover
Dutch Bros.
00;39;15;17 - 00;39;16;10
Kurt Adams
Dutch Brothers.
00;39;16;10 - 00;39;18;03
Max Grover
Grows fast.
00;39;18;05 - 00;39;20;14
Kurt Adams
Something being human being.
00;39;20;16 - 00;39;22;05
Oh, I haven't heard of that.
00;39;22;07 - 00;39;31;18
Kurt Adams
Yeah. So human being. Yeah, but that's, you know, once again, that's exciting for us because there's a lot of these little slivers that we have out there. Yeah, It's like, what.
00;39;31;18 - 00;39;33;13
Are your regular shows? What do you.
00;39;33;15 - 00;39;37;05
Kurt Adams
You can't, you can't put a drive through on it. You can't do anything else with.
00;39;37;05 - 00;39;38;17
Chris Prins
So yeah.
00;39;38;19 - 00;39;53;25
Max Grover
And for most people that are listening to this probably do No, but there's a lot of companies that would not be allowed onto Myer's sites if they compete with the retail store and in any sort of way. Right.
00;39;53;27 - 00;40;14;03
Kurt Adams
You know, mostly grocery. I mean, really our biggest protection is against grocery. Yeah. You know, I think we've come a long way. You know, we used to have some pet supply restrictions and you look at planes, we allowed planes to go in next door stand Dale store. So yeah.
00;40;14;06 - 00;40;23;00
Chris Prins
I was always surprised to Sherwin-Williams. I always thought you wouldn't let them on their outlets, especially with your paint section. But I mean, they seem to be doing well in Rockford.
00;40;23;03 - 00;40;26;22
Kurt Adams
Yeah. You just need to walk through repeat selection one of these days.
00;40;26;24 - 00;40;26;28
It's.
00;40;27;00 - 00;40;43;09
Kurt Adams
It's. It's down to you. I mean, we're the Holy economy is becoming more specialized, you know? I mean, there was no way that our department was or our paint department was ever going to be able to compete with a full service paint place.
00;40;43;10 - 00;40;43;17
Chris Prins
Yeah.
00;40;43;20 - 00;40;55;17
Kurt Adams
And as more people started gravitating to Sherwin-Williams, Benjamin Moore, you get Home Depot or you get Lowe's. So our paint departments really been shrinking. We've never done custom blend paints and so.
00;40;55;19 - 00;40;57;11
Max Grover
Grab and go and that's about it.
00;40;57;13 - 00;41;03;15
Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah. I think now you can get primer and maybe some ceiling paint, huh?
00;41;03;18 - 00;41;13;16
Max Grover
Are you? And I'm going to keep driving this. Is there any, any other cool retail that you're seeing out there Besides it was human being and.
00;41;13;19 - 00;41;42;00
Kurt Adams
You know, I mean, beyond it were, you know, another one of the interesting things that, you know, these pet services and these pet services locations, daycare, you know, pet daycare and stuff like that. Yeah. You know, those are growing segments that we're kind of watching. They don't seem to be that there's no big national player yet that's kind of created the model that's going to go through and push it.
00;41;42;01 - 00;41;42;12
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;41;42;13 - 00;41;55;25
Chris Prins
So cool. Yeah. You still seeing car washes interactive throughout? I feel like that's kind of like for a while it was all the mattress stores mattress stores, mattress stores and now I feel like there's a million car wash concepts coming out.
00;41;55;26 - 00;41;59;18
Kurt Adams
Car washes of the new banks. Yeah, yeah yeah.
00;41;59;21 - 00;42;07;26
Max Grover
So we've talked about that. We've talked about car washes on here a couple of times, too, where it's like it's a, it's a cool concept and everything. But yeah.
00;42;07;28 - 00;42;19;26
Chris Prins
My issue with car washes is okay, if ever goes out, it's always like, what do you, what do you do with the building? At least a bank? You can kind of retrofit it to put a restaurant in there. But I'm like, a car wash is kind of always going to be a car.
00;42;19;26 - 00;42;42;01
Kurt Adams
Wash and what we watch the most is, you know, the operator that's you know, I'll be honest, we watch the operator closer than anybody else. I think ultimately what you're going to run into is they're not picking locations. They're not being super well. Mr. and Tommy's are a little bit, but they're not being super competitive or, you know, locating right across the street.
00;42;42;03 - 00;43;05;00
Kurt Adams
They're all fighting for the same customer. They all basically have the same wash plan. It's a great concept. It's if it's super convenient for me, I complain and I tell man all the time, I need a car wash somewhere between Rockford and our office that I can stop and get my car wash that because I want to pay $30 a month and drive in every day, every other day and get my car washed.
00;43;05;02 - 00;43;28;29
Kurt Adams
Most people are like that. If it's convenient, you're going to go. Nice thing about Meyers. Most locations are convenient. You know, you're going to have your time, you're going to have your Mr. and all those others. They're going to continue to grow crew mikes. Yeah. And then eventually I think you're going to get to a point where you hit a saturation point and then, you know, whoever is the biggest is going to come through and start buying up the others.
00;43;28;29 - 00;43;30;10
Chris Prins
Yeah.
00;43;30;12 - 00;43;32;03
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;43;32;06 - 00;43;36;26
Chris Prins
Yeah. There is no easy location. I'm thinking about Rockford. You get, you go down, you pass Alpine. But yeah.
00;43;36;29 - 00;43;37;11
Kurt Adams
You've got to.
00;43;37;12 - 00;43;37;27
Chris Prins
Work, you've got.
00;43;37;27 - 00;43;39;24
Kurt Adams
You've got a mr. up there pulling into that.
00;43;39;24 - 00;43;42;21
Chris Prins
Mr. make a left hand turn and then turn right back around.
00;43;42;24 - 00;43;48;16
Max Grover
And you're going to go 131 out to right from Walker out.
00;43;48;19 - 00;43;49;04
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;43;49;07 - 00;43;55;18
Max Grover
Three mile and but you're not, you're going 131 you're not taking Alpine fighting 50,000 cars.
00;43;55;23 - 00;44;02;22
Kurt Adams
I'll be honest my my task to MAD is to put a car wash on her pad next to her.
00;44;02;28 - 00;44;03;23
Max Grover
I want. So if.
00;44;03;23 - 00;44;05;07
You run underneath, that's that.
00;44;05;10 - 00;44;05;28
Kurt Adams
Gas station.
00;44;06;00 - 00;44;09;26
I don't even say it. I've already called right after the Sun column. Right.
00;44;09;27 - 00;44;11;27
Kurt Adams
I guess I want one by our corporate campus.
00;44;11;28 - 00;44;13;28
Max Grover
Yeah, I knew it. That I knew I could.
00;44;13;28 - 00;44;15;10
Do well there. Yeah, Yeah.
00;44;15;13 - 00;44;23;26
Max Grover
I like that one. And you have. You have to get new gas station there. Yeah. And then you have two or three pads there on the other side.
00;44;23;29 - 00;44;41;01
Kurt Adams
I have one excellent McDonald's and then I've got a big pad, 2.87 acres to the south. Mm hmm. Okay, then. My credit union owns the pad in between.
00;44;41;02 - 00;44;50;16
Max Grover
What's going on with the the. And maybe they're not there. They have the barriers up over there by McDonald's directing. What, are they changing that out or is that just.
00;44;50;16 - 00;44;52;15
Kurt Adams
That's just to keep people off of our site?
00;44;52;21 - 00;44;57;14
Max Grover
Okay. Yeah, I always want to rip through there. And I know I can't exactly.
00;44;57;17 - 00;44;58;28
Kurt Adams
As soon as I find out you are, I'll put.
00;44;58;28 - 00;45;04;15
It on there. So what was Meier's.
00;45;04;15 - 00;45;09;05
Chris Prins
Mentality to get to the gas station industry? I guess I'm the lot specifically.
00;45;09;07 - 00;45;26;17
Kurt Adams
You know, I don't know specifically, but they've kind of always gone hand in hand. So I think our keys are is that we want to be in close proximity to our store and then you'll see more and more, in particular with M perks. You know, they've still got meetings.
00;45;26;19 - 00;45;31;29
Max Grover
The Caledonia store is beautiful. Yeah, The gas station. Yeah. It turned out very, very well.
00;45;31;29 - 00;45;33;27
Chris Prins
Especially with the Starbucks and everything.
00;45;34;00 - 00;45;47;24
Max Grover
And it had to too, because there's a lot of competition over there too. But I saw that they were moving or they were surveying out there for another project coming, which I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but I'm not. Maybe I'm wrong out in Caledonia.
00;45;47;24 - 00;45;48;26
Kurt Adams
What do you think it is?
00;45;48;28 - 00;45;49;27
Max Grover
I think it's car wash.
00;45;49;28 - 00;45;52;04
Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;45;52;07 - 00;45;55;06
Max Grover
I think Chris did that deal. I wasn't me. It wasn't you.
00;45;55;07 - 00;45;55;18
Chris Prins
Guys in my.
00;45;55;18 - 00;45;56;01
Office.
00;45;56;04 - 00;45;57;07
Max Grover
Okay, Maybe that's okay.
00;45;57;07 - 00;46;00;26
Kurt Adams
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I own the parcel across the street, too, right? Yeah. Yeah.
00;46;00;29 - 00;46;01;24
Chris Prins
That's a great.
00;46;01;26 - 00;46;04;11
Kurt Adams
Who's going to make me a big offer on that one?
00;46;04;13 - 00;46;08;16
Chris Prins
Some credit union someday.
00;46;08;19 - 00;46;10;23
Another car wash will happen. It will happen.
00;46;10;27 - 00;46;18;11
Max Grover
Another car wash now. Yeah. There's like an acre there with. Yeah. Some dirt sitting there and then. Yeah that's of course I do.
00;46;18;18 - 00;46;19;17
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;46;19;20 - 00;46;32;12
Max Grover
Very cool. Say how like how passionately involved do you find yourself getting more passionately involved in West Michigan plants versus out of state or is it pretty passionate all the way across the board?
00;46;32;12 - 00;46;58;02
Kurt Adams
And it's pretty much all the way across the board. I'll be perfectly honest. We have stores that just don't pull the foot traffic they need to. So when you take one of those stores and you know, you can pull together a use that not only draws traffic benefits, the community, you know, looks good in your parking lot. Yeah, those are the ones that are really, really cool.
00;46;58;04 - 00;47;16;21
Max Grover
Well and I think I think Rockford is a good example of that, too, with the you have the huge multifamily project in the back. You have the senior living project, you have the big B project on the on ten mile that I sold to just give myself a pat on the back. Actually.
00;47;16;21 - 00;47;23;06
Eric Did I say I did? Yeah. Well, it's.
00;47;23;06 - 00;47;25;00
Chris Prins
Not near for everybody to say.
00;47;25;07 - 00;47;27;07
Exactly now, but.
00;47;27;09 - 00;47;42;07
Max Grover
And, and then you have right, but you have a ton of demand there and, and everything obviously. But I think that's a good example of like how it benefits a whole community and how it's driving. Having all of that there is driving even more demand to be there. And that's pretty cool.
00;47;42;11 - 00;48;11;14
Kurt Adams
Yeah, that one, you know, I'll be you know, I live in Rockford, so that one's always been highly visible to me. Yeah. So we put together a very deliberate plan on that property probably in 2016, 2017, right after Story Point went in and we were working with the the spectrum at that point. And we had a vision for what we wanted to see there and what the community needed.
00;48;11;16 - 00;48;30;08
Kurt Adams
And I'd had the benefit of, you know, serving on the Algoma Township Planning Commission for eight, ten years at that point and was part of the master planning process and knew what items were identified in the master plan. And we did as much as we could to accommodate as much, you know, as many of those items as we could.
00;48;30;10 - 00;48;36;16
Max Grover
That's pretty cool. And I'm sure like site wise is not an easy site either to work with where the topography and everything.
00;48;36;23 - 00;48;58;05
Kurt Adams
Right? And then on top of that, you had the ten mile overlook overlay corridor that prohibited drive thrus. And so, you know, we worked closely with Taco Bell and with, you know, the owner of Culver's to make sure that we could do it. We could help with once they kind of broke down those barriers to a certain extent, to, you know, create that connectivity that they needed as well.
00;48;58;07 - 00;49;02;29
Chris Prins
Yeah, Well, especially with the sports complex out there, too, you want to make sure it looks nice and yeah.
00;49;03;01 - 00;49;04;20
Kurt Adams
Still needs a hotel.
00;49;04;23 - 00;49;06;20
Max Grover
It does. Yeah. No, you're not wrong. You can't.
00;49;06;20 - 00;49;09;27
Kurt Adams
Get that. How did Cedar Springs get a hotel before Rockford?
00;49;09;29 - 00;49;11;06
Chris Prins
Yeah, I think that's.
00;49;11;06 - 00;49;12;12
Max Grover
A good question, actually. Yeah.
00;49;12;18 - 00;49;17;15
Chris Prins
I like a full service sit down restaurant right in front of their buyer. There are. Yeah.
00;49;17;18 - 00;49;18;18
I was going to say, it.
00;49;18;18 - 00;49;23;27
Max Grover
Just needs to be something that it needs to be something. It's like one of those locations where it's like, just get it opened.
00;49;23;27 - 00;49;25;04
Kurt Adams
Yeah, Yeah.
00;49;25;07 - 00;49;39;15
Chris Prins
So at what point does like when you guys tie a side up to purchase that on the other team, at what point do they bring you in to start looking at the lots and saying, okay, we can sell this and you know, develop? Is it once a store is built then or you.
00;49;39;17 - 00;49;45;28
Kurt Adams
Know, it happens, There's a transition within our company from when we purchased the property.
00;49;46;01 - 00;49;49;26
Max Grover
It goes entities usually submit under.
00;49;49;28 - 00;49;50;17
Season.
00;49;50;19 - 00;49;52;06
Kurt Adams
It's it's usually underwear.
00;49;52;12 - 00;49;56;01
Okay Boxee LLC right.
00;49;56;04 - 00;50;14;06
Kurt Adams
So both real estate and design both have sighted app teams. So when it's going through the real estate site Adaptive, who's working on the entitlements and everything as part of the purchase, doing the due diligence, they'll sit down with Matt and they'll do an evaluation of the property that we have and they'll come up with a lot sizes.
00;50;14;06 - 00;50;44;20
Max Grover
But but once again, in a in an odd way, we're like being real estate. If you were in charge of the whole project, that site layout might look a little bit different than it. If this store comes first, right? Where in reality, like if you and I were laying it out, we would probably focus on like, how do we maximize the the out lots because they're become so valuable where that's probably secondary or maybe tertiary thought for the the Myer brand which is interesting store.
00;50;44;20 - 00;50;55;02
Kurt Adams
Visibility store circulation once they get in gas station once we get all of those set and then you take whatever lands left and that's what becomes the outlet program. Yeah.
00;50;55;04 - 00;51;00;05
Max Grover
Which obviously makes sense. But at the same time like being real estate guys development.
00;51;00;07 - 00;51;01;23
You're like, it doesn't make any sense at all.
00;51;01;26 - 00;51;04;28
Kurt Adams
Once again, corporate real estate is a different you know, it is a different area.
00;51;04;29 - 00;51;21;22
Chris Prins
Yeah, but you're also different than most concepts because most concepts, okay. If then you scrape and rebuild so quick, you know, I'm not gonna say quick 150 hundred a day process described rebuilt. You can't do that with Myers store. No I mean when it comes you build it basically at once and you're set in place with that store.
00;51;21;24 - 00;51;27;06
Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless you take an extraordinary means. We've done it.
00;51;27;09 - 00;51;28;22
Chris Prins
And scraped and rebuilt. Yeah.
00;51;28;22 - 00;51;30;18
Kurt Adams
Go take while not scraped and rebuilt but.
00;51;30;25 - 00;51;31;04
Max Grover
Just.
00;51;31;04 - 00;51;45;05
Kurt Adams
Complete renovation are Myer on Saginaw Highway right now in Lansing. Yeah. I mean that's, you know you want to talk about a massive endeavor. I still it's part of the reason why as I told you earlier, I'm glad I'm not the retail side because I.
00;51;45;05 - 00;51;47;19
Look at that. I mean yeah that's just.
00;51;47;22 - 00;51;57;13
Max Grover
Every decision that you make and foot traffic and how it changes that and the thought that has to go into every decision on shelving and racking and refrigeration all the way through.
00;51;57;19 - 00;52;09;14
Kurt Adams
Not to be around this is still on the customer. Yeah. So even when you're under renovation, you are always everything. The decisions that are made are based on making it as convenient as possible for the customer.
00;52;09;14 - 00;52;10;07
Max Grover
Not just getting it.
00;52;10;07 - 00;52;11;07
Kurt Adams
Done right.
00;52;11;07 - 00;52;15;15
Max Grover
It's yeah, the, the whole that had to make it so tough now.
00;52;15;17 - 00;52;26;06
Chris Prins
But it also reminds me of kind of your Greenvale store with your old store. Be on the north side of town like you just said. Okay, we're going to build a brand new store. Yeah. Which made sense to it. Activity was happening over there and yeah.
00;52;26;09 - 00;52;29;15
Kurt Adams
I still got two lots there too, by the way, if you'd like them on the north side. The north.
00;52;29;15 - 00;52;31;07
Chris Prins
Side? Yeah.
00;52;31;10 - 00;52;32;18
Kurt Adams
Okay. Let me know if.
00;52;32;20 - 00;52;36;03
Chris Prins
I got I got something brewing on the way north side but out there.
00;52;36;05 - 00;52;55;10
Max Grover
Well, yeah, we'll lock them up just to give them back. I'm sorry. And then. So how many new stores do you guys have? A plan coming out that is that public in any way like, hey, we have X amount of new stores planned or anything like that Now.
00;52;55;12 - 00;53;03;07
Kurt Adams
To go ultimately, until the decisions are made, they are made public so it can fluctuate on an annual basis.
00;53;03;09 - 00;53;14;05
Chris Prins
So that's kind of what's great about being a privately held company, too. I don't think you're under the gun to just say, okay, you have to grow 15, 20, 30, 40 stores, right? Let's grow on our crazy. Yeah.
00;53;14;05 - 00;53;19;20
Max Grover
Do you do you go visit every site personally? Are you like boots on the ground to every site or.
00;53;19;23 - 00;53;21;05
Kurt Adams
I have been to every site.
00;53;21;05 - 00;53;22;22
Max Grover
Yeah, yeah.
00;53;22;24 - 00;53;23;24
Yeah.
00;53;23;27 - 00;53;24;17
Max Grover
You've been to every.
00;53;24;17 - 00;53;48;02
Kurt Adams
Store with new store openings. Generally, if we have tenants that are going in place, that will typically make a trip out before the store opens to make sure that the tenant spaces in order that the tenant has all their work complete. You know, too, because know our openings have all of our senior leadership involved in. The last thing I want to do is have them show up at a store opening and have, you know, a sign crooked or something like that.
00;53;48;02 - 00;53;51;02
Kurt Adams
So sure, Yeah. Oh.
00;53;51;04 - 00;54;01;28
Max Grover
Man, it's so interesting. It's like a it's it's a lot of the same stuff, but it's from a it's from the a difference of the table almost such as is fascinating.
00;54;02;01 - 00;54;22;23
Kurt Adams
You know is still with the in-store tenant program that's where we really run in the most conflict with what we saw in our store. And I mean we pass up some incredible users tenants because, you know, conflicting sales, but that's the right decision for the company. Yeah. Yeah.
00;54;22;26 - 00;54;34;18
Max Grover
I just keep sitting I'm I'm still just thinking about the fact like, every day, like I'm sure you and matter like we should be doing this like that. Every element that you see and want go. And you're like.
00;54;34;21 - 00;54;36;23
Kurt Adams
Unfortunately, we're a little busy.
00;54;36;26 - 00;54;40;29
You. It's time to think about it. Yeah, yeah. Give us.
00;54;40;29 - 00;54;43;29
Kurt Adams
Give us a real estate team and you know, we can see.
00;54;43;29 - 00;54;44;13
Chris Prins
What you can do.
00;54;44;16 - 00;54;45;07
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;54;45;09 - 00;54;52;03
Chris Prins
What's your typical build time for a buyer? Start like shovel in the dirt. So grand opening, ribbon cutting.
00;54;52;06 - 00;55;00;23
Kurt Adams
So some of the some of it depends on the site, but typically we're shovels in the dirt in June or May opening time.
00;55;00;26 - 00;55;05;03
Max Grover
And who's building the majority of the new stores at this point is like, you.
00;55;05;03 - 00;55;07;11
Kurt Adams
Know, Yeah, yeah.
00;55;07;14 - 00;55;34;23
Max Grover
Interesting. That's a I mean just from all the different because we we deal with a lot of the same people but to be on the Meyers side of it where you can be Meier in your responses has to be so fun at times to deal with some of the the developers and some of the timing and this and that and just being like, Hey, I'm sorry for.
00;55;34;23 - 00;55;35;08
Kurt Adams
My yeah.
00;55;35;10 - 00;55;35;21
That's got.
00;55;35;21 - 00;55;36;22
Max Grover
To be kind of from some.
00;55;36;22 - 00;55;37;29
Kurt Adams
Points for math. No.
00;55;38;00 - 00;55;38;29
Yeah, yeah.
00;55;38;29 - 00;55;40;23
Chris Prins
That gets a screaming cause of the.
00;55;40;24 - 00;55;42;21
Yeah. Oh I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;55;42;25 - 00;55;43;19
Kurt Adams
Exactly.
00;55;43;21 - 00;55;48;11
Max Grover
Well why are you doing it this way? Well, because we can. Yeah, because we want to.
00;55;48;14 - 00;55;52;28
Yeah. It's got to be self-funded and it doesn't matter. Yeah.
00;55;53;00 - 00;55;54;25
Kurt Adams
Like, well and that's decisions.
00;55;54;25 - 00;55;55;09
Max Grover
I just.
00;55;55;14 - 00;56;23;20
Kurt Adams
I, I tell you know, I've been emphasizing this with, you know and other, you know, individuals I've talked to, they're thinking about getting real estate. You need to get in and start meeting people to understand because there's huge differences in real estate. Saying you're in real estate is like saying you have a biology degree, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you could be in corporate real estate, you could be in, you know, real estate that focuses primarily on leasing acquisitions, dispositions.
00;56;23;22 - 00;56;25;12
Kurt Adams
It's like, yeah.
00;56;25;13 - 00;56;26;25
Chris Prins
There's so many specialties with.
00;56;26;25 - 00;56;36;03
Max Grover
That in that all the way down into inside of each category where it's like, hey, I'm a, I'm a retail broker, could mean 100 different things in itself. Yeah.
00;56;36;03 - 00;56;42;21
Kurt Adams
So yeah. And that's a, you know, it always boils back to I'm sure both you guys would agree development is where it's fun. Yeah.
00;56;42;23 - 00;56;55;04
Max Grover
It yes, it, yes, it's so addicting but it's you know, it's horrible at times too, especially when you're dealing with people that can push you around a little bit.
00;56;55;06 - 00;56;57;18
And I didn't say the names. Yeah. No, no.
00;56;57;18 - 00;56;59;05
Chris Prins
We're not throwing names.
00;56;59;08 - 00;57;00;14
Max Grover
Yeah, exactly.
00;57;00;15 - 00;57;04;01
Kurt Adams
But you wish you could be in corporate real estate.
00;57;04;03 - 00;57;05;23
Yeah, I wish I.
00;57;05;23 - 00;57;08;17
Max Grover
Had the corporate real estate or. But I could stay doing.
00;57;08;17 - 00;57;09;26
What I'm doing.
00;57;09;28 - 00;57;30;08
Max Grover
They could. I mean, that's a Yes, it is a ton of fun. And. And you've done everything from private all the way to the construction side. Like private developer. Yeah. Property management, construction for private entity all the way to, I guess. Meyers So private too, but just corporate massive corporate decision.
00;57;30;08 - 00;57;34;06
Kurt Adams
I am a jack of all trades master. I'm not.
00;57;34;09 - 00;57;35;20
But I, I.
00;57;35;23 - 00;57;59;19
Max Grover
I'm almost convinced that the people that started in property management almost grasp real estate better than most, because I don't know, maybe it's because they're they're the ones that actually have to deal with after the fact. And I'm like, here's what the contracts say and here's how it's implemented and here's how this affects the operation when you set something up this way.
00;57;59;19 - 00;58;14;15
Max Grover
So they end up learning how these decisions up front affect the back end so well. But some of the some of the best developers I know and in real estate brokers I know like have an extensive knowledge and background in property management.
00;58;14;16 - 00;58;19;11
Kurt Adams
Yeah, no, I would agree it makes you think your way through and there are certain things.
00;58;19;17 - 00;58;32;28
Max Grover
And just maybe even just on top of that, like the tough conversations that you have to have on the property management side where it's like, yeah, of course we all have to have those in what we do. But the property management side is like it's pretty cut and dry.
00;58;32;28 - 00;58;52;01
Kurt Adams
Yeah, well, knowing how to inspire your vendors, right? I mean that's a big thing nowadays. You can't just be like we used to operate 10 to 15 years ago where you can maybe like, get over here now. You know, nowadays you got to have some lines. You got to be, you know, you got to know them on an individual basis and you got to be like.
00;58;52;04 - 00;58;52;19
Max Grover
Yeah, because.
00;58;52;19 - 00;58;54;19
Kurt Adams
Oil to them and you got to be like, Hey.
00;58;54;20 - 00;58;56;04
They got this bomb.
00;58;56;06 - 00;59;01;08
Max Grover
They got six months worth of work in front of them. So they drop everything to run over and yeah, sure.
00;59;01;09 - 00;59;05;14
Chris Prins
Yeah. And you don't have ten other options that you can go to in today's world, right?
00;59;05;17 - 00;59;08;28
Kurt Adams
Well, you may have ten, but one will be six months. I'll, it'll be. Yeah.
00;59;09;00 - 00;59;14;18
Max Grover
Yeah. And their pricing is all over the map too as far as like yeah we'll do it but at this.
00;59;14;18 - 00;59;15;09
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
00;59;15;12 - 00;59;17;16
Max Grover
Yeah. Take it or leave it. Yeah. That type of thing.
00;59;17;16 - 00;59;19;28
Kurt Adams
So half.
00;59;20;00 - 00;59;36;11
Max Grover
What about on the for the planning of the like planning of the stores, planning of the lots. How involved do you get like all the way down to like how they leave the, the sites or is it just always pad ready. Get it done. And are you guys.
00;59;36;13 - 00;59;55;19
Kurt Adams
Yeah. We're not heavily involved really. They solicit are input as it relates to what size we want, what's going to be marketable. You know how we can convert it to make it more marketable. But beyond that, you know, we have a standard, you know, we have to have, you know, utilities stubbed and they know what that standard is and they just designed to that.
00;59;55;22 - 01;00;12;10
Max Grover
What about with that to the pricing across all the different states, all the different municipalities, because property in Rockford is going to be a lot different than Chicago, right. So yeah, how do you come up with your pricing?
01;00;12;10 - 01;00;31;11
Kurt Adams
And we just watch the markets. We we evaluate based on activity, based on market rates, how much property we have. So I wouldn't say there is a scientific formula to it. A lot of times we rely on local brokers and yeah, yeah.
01;00;31;14 - 01;00;40;29
Chris Prins
It's nice, especially in today's world, there's so much technology out there. You go back and say, okay, what's recently sold, what you know, what does Panda Express pay for across the street or something like that? Right.
01;00;41;01 - 01;00;45;25
Kurt Adams
And generally, I'll be honest, I mean, we know there's a premium for a Meier's site. Yeah.
01;00;45;27 - 01;01;05;19
Max Grover
Absolutely. Yeah. And and I think it's interesting because even though there might be land right that's across the street with similar frontage, a retailer still may choose to pay the premium to be on the Meier's site. But just because of the traffic transfer.
01;01;05;25 - 01;01;06;12
Chris Prins
Yeah yeah.
01;01;06;19 - 01;01;08;16
Max Grover
And you know, people are going to stop there.
01;01;08;19 - 01;01;17;08
Kurt Adams
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And typically, we're positioning our stores, we're buying our property that we are because we're trying to capture certain traffic.
01;01;17;10 - 01;01;45;09
Max Grover
Yeah, sure. And, and then even like outside of that where you're talking about affecting a whole community by bringing Meier store in with the retail outlets. But everything around it does get more valuable, too. If there is a if there is an extra parcel for a Blaine's or if there is for multifamily or if there is additional outlets that could be created across the street or I mean, all the clearly chases and ideal.
01;01;45;11 - 01;01;46;11
But they do it right.
01;01;46;11 - 01;02;07;14
Max Grover
I mean, they're going to they're going to find something near the newest buyer that's coming into a market, too. And so it does it spur so much development. And that has to be that's kind of rewarding in a way, too, to be a part of all of that and changing the community. And it's it's on a ugly, heinous use that people are fighting like people are generally, I would assume, excited to see you come.
01;02;07;17 - 01;02;09;23
Kurt Adams
It's all a press release to say that.
01;02;09;25 - 01;02;15;03
Yeah that has a lot of money. You know they've written that way. But yeah, it is funny because.
01;02;15;06 - 01;02;33;16
Chris Prins
I mostly do retail and like we haven't had new retail corridor created in West Michigan. I would say in the last five, five, ten years, just because we haven't had a myer or like a Lowes or, you know, a Walmart implement themselves in our market and created like our last big retail corridor I would say is East Beltline and that.
01;02;33;18 - 01;02;34;04
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
01;02;34;07 - 01;02;43;23
Chris Prins
Which is just it's a matter of fact like we just haven't had those big box stores. I think you get the big boxes in first and, everyone else kind of falls, falls in line. It's a domino effect.
01;02;43;25 - 01;02;54;00
Max Grover
Yeah. James I mean James Homogeneity, another example of that too, and the growth that's happening out there is in talking about that. Yeah if we're live yet but I mean it's growing like crazy out there too and I'll.
01;02;54;00 - 01;02;59;28
Kurt Adams
Be curious to see down there. Caledonia Yeah. What that corridor ends up becoming because there's land available.
01;02;59;28 - 01;03;02;29
Max Grover
It's a really interesting corridor because it's kind of like.
01;03;03;01 - 01;03;04;07
Kurt Adams
It's a commuter corridor.
01;03;04;08 - 01;03;05;02
Chris Prins
Yeah, Yeah, right.
01;03;05;02 - 01;03;21;27
Max Grover
It's, it's, it's a pass through. But at the same time, there's a ton of rooftops over there too. But then I always think about and I'm not a meyer, I don't work for Meyer, I don't know the ins and outs, but it is close to the grain store and it is close to the 28th Street store too. So it's like, does that cannibalize?
01;03;22;00 - 01;03;28;07
Max Grover
And I'm sure that's had to be part of the conversation to have. Like when can this stand on its own right.
01;03;28;09 - 01;03;34;20
Chris Prins
And do we get the people from like Hastings and Miller that on call don't need to drive all the way up here to shop the store like this?
01;03;34;22 - 01;03;36;03
Kurt Adams
Well.
01;03;36;05 - 01;03;49;14
Max Grover
I mean, Waylon's driving all the way up to Gaines now. Yeah. So a lot of people I know from Wayland that live down there, they're willing to drive all the way they get in store. So depending on he's just not saying anything.
01;03;49;21 - 01;04;08;08
I get that to be the to ask to be determined. Yeah, well, Chris, I would figure it out. I think you should break this break ground next year. I'll talk to Fred. I guess you heard it here first. Ground breaking 2024. We'll start.
01;04;08;08 - 01;04;09;20
Max Grover
In winter. Two just.
01;04;09;23 - 01;04;10;07
Additions.
01;04;10;07 - 01;04;13;01
Chris Prins
To change it up a little bit for June. Like we'll go with it.
01;04;13;03 - 01;04;14;13
Kurt Adams
I want to make it easy, you know.
01;04;14;13 - 01;04;18;06
Want to get comfortable. Let's start in the winter.
01;04;18;09 - 01;04;39;14
Max Grover
It is I mean if that that's a that whole corridor's blowing up, but it is still like it's very grim. I brought a national out there, It was probably two months ago to drive it and almost and not in a negative way, but it's just not ready for them yet. Almost right away like past.
01;04;39;17 - 01;04;39;23
Kurt Adams
We.
01;04;39;23 - 01;04;40;13
Max Grover
Had to green.
01;04;40;20 - 01;04;46;11
Kurt Adams
I mean we it was a huge struggle for us to get Starbucks in there. They just they just didn't have there's.
01;04;46;11 - 01;04;46;24
Chris Prins
Not gas.
01;04;46;25 - 01;04;52;26
Kurt Adams
Lots. They didn't have the vision. And I don't I think they're doing well out there. I mean, that's such a commuter corridor that it's just.
01;04;53;01 - 01;05;03;28
Max Grover
All I think that the daytime population, too and I don't know how close they look at that, but the daytime population from all the manufacturing and everything in that corridor has to be absolutely massive.
01;05;04;06 - 01;05;17;16
Chris Prins
When you have all those apartments going in with added rows and sons. Yeah. So I mean, that's just going to continue to drive popular. And then you get all the Amazon employees that just need somewhere to drink coffee. You need somewhere to help their car grab some carvers, you know, grab some tackle jobs.
01;05;17;18 - 01;05;18;14
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
01;05;18;16 - 01;05;22;27
Max Grover
Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's common.
01;05;22;29 - 01;05;35;01
Chris Prins
It's tiny because that area has been primed, actually, like, for so long with the two major intersections kind of colliding with M6 and Broadmoor. I've always been surprised living in West Michigan, that it's taken this long for it to be developed.
01;05;35;06 - 01;05;39;08
Kurt Adams
I would agree. In particular, when farmers went in and Davenport went in and it's like.
01;05;39;10 - 01;05;43;13
Max Grover
Yeah, okay, you got two massive campuses right there in itself.
01;05;43;13 - 01;06;01;02
Chris Prins
When you look around six quarter, I mean, Kalamazoo is pretty well developed at this point. Yeah, you keep on up and down. You got Byron Center with Metro Health and everything that's developed on the north side. South sides get developed by Tony Persily. So it's it was surprising to me that Broadmoor was always so long to get the took so long to get developed.
01;06;01;02 - 01;06;01;21
Chris Prins
Yep.
01;06;01;23 - 01;06;08;18
Max Grover
But they're selling out lots anyways without a store, which is pretty amazing too.
01;06;08;21 - 01;06;10;04
Do they. Do the guys.
01;06;10;04 - 01;06;20;21
Max Grover
They are making decisions to buy out lots of their. Do they get to know if a store is coming or not? They don't even tell them. No, it doesn't matter to them. Don't they just want the corner?
01;06;20;23 - 01;06;29;21
Kurt Adams
Yeah. I mean that's the beauty of that corridor right now is that corridor looks like it's gaining momentum without having that box back there. So.
01;06;29;24 - 01;06;40;07
Chris Prins
Exactly once the box goes in there, sales or whatever, it's going to keep getting higher. Yeah, they can make it without a buyer. Think about what they will do with a buyer right.
01;06;40;09 - 01;06;41;14
Kurt Adams
What about. Yeah.
01;06;41;19 - 01;06;46;04
Max Grover
I mean, and there's three, three gas stations on my corner too, right?
01;06;46;06 - 01;06;46;20
Kurt Adams
Yeah. Yeah.
01;06;46;20 - 01;06;54;26
Max Grover
At three. How do look at the numbers for the guys that are climbing and counting and doing well too. Or don't know.
01;06;54;29 - 01;06;58;13
Kurt Adams
Don't know that every time I'm out there seems to be busy.
01;06;58;15 - 01;07;00;04
Max Grover
I've gone there a couple of times out.
01;07;00;04 - 01;07;00;24
Kurt Adams
There.
01;07;00;26 - 01;07;01;03
Max Grover
So.
01;07;01;05 - 01;07;07;02
Kurt Adams
I like it once again. I'm like you. I think it's a great store. I like to go in there. Yeah. Mm hmm.
01;07;07;04 - 01;07;10;12
Max Grover
Can I set up a fireworks stand there next year.
01;07;10;14 - 01;07;10;27
Just for you?
01;07;10;27 - 01;07;13;00
Chris Prins
Just set it up and say.
01;07;13;02 - 01;07;13;17
Oh.
01;07;13;19 - 01;07;15;28
Kurt Adams
I'll give you the number of a first and you can count it.
01;07;16;00 - 01;07;16;08
Chris Prins
Yeah.
01;07;16;08 - 01;07;23;26
Matt Levitt. So they could set this up. I got the good stuff, too. Yeah, yeah.
01;07;23;29 - 01;07;37;17
Max Grover
Yeah. Anything. You probably any stores that have been announced are underway or under construction, even if it's another state that you can talk about or any girl.
01;07;37;17 - 01;08;01;01
Kurt Adams
Not a whole lot to say. I mean, the ones that we've had open, you know, Elkhart, Westfield, Wooster, Warren, Ohio. I mean, you know, they're all doing well. Man's got great activity going on. The honor outlaw side of things. So I think we continue our our our site acquisition team news to go out and find great sites.
01;08;01;01 - 01;08;06;13
Max Grover
And mostly those are probably mostly Kroger territory that you're pushing.
01;08;06;15 - 01;08;21;28
Kurt Adams
Northeast Ohio was giant eagle got I would say in these probably a mix of a number of different ones probably us predominantly but.
01;08;22;00 - 01;08;38;22
Max Grover
Yeah and the the name recognition and everything seems to continue to grow too. I have seen like a handful for whatever reason, like mine will come up from like I think Jocko was talking maybe selling product and he called it mayor and then.
01;08;38;25 - 01;08;40;05
I can't remember.
01;08;40;07 - 01;08;45;10
Max Grover
It was a politician. It might have been Dan Crenshaw. I was asking about it. And he also called it Mayor Yeah.
01;08;45;12 - 01;08;45;22
And then I.
01;08;45;22 - 01;08;59;19
Max Grover
Always just kind of get a laugh. But I mean, the brand recognition is continues to grow and push got to be it's got to be a fun time to be admire with the growth that you've seen and continue to see. It's a great.
01;08;59;19 - 01;09;27;21
Kurt Adams
Product. It's a great product. It's great company, community focused. You know, my job in particular, it's just the different variety of stuff I get to work with. You know, I'm on acquisitions, dispositions, you know, I even do some project management, you know, that are outlying, you. I've had been able to work in Singapore, Hong Kong, Bangladesh. Wow. You know, got a couple specialty pharmacies located in other states.
01;09;27;21 - 01;09;31;27
Kurt Adams
So it's just you never know on a daily basis what you're going to come in deal with.
01;09;31;27 - 01;09;38;19
Max Grover
And that's got to keep it obviously stressful, but extremely fun too, I'm sure. Yeah, Every day you don't know.
01;09;38;19 - 01;09;43;03
Kurt Adams
There are very few projects that drag out longer than three or four months.
01;09;43;05 - 01;09;46;13
Chris Prins
That's not bad because then you could put on a different hat and get out to the next project.
01;09;46;13 - 01;10;04;11
Kurt Adams
Yeah, and you know, that's the great thing about having, you know, such a strong team, you know, with Matt and, and Lynn and, you know, Joe and, you know, my whole team, you know, unfortunately there are a lot of times I don't get drug in until it's, you know, on fire. Yeah. But, you know, they do their jobs.
01;10;04;11 - 01;10;12;03
Kurt Adams
They do the jobs well and, uh, you know, I get celebrating a lot of successes with them and. Yeah, yeah.
01;10;12;06 - 01;10;20;14
Max Grover
Yeah, I think I mean, obviously we've gotten to deal with Matt Matt's always great, too, and he just kind of says it how it's going to be end like that.
01;10;20;16 - 01;10;21;22
Chris Prins
He shoots a straight, he shoot.
01;10;21;22 - 01;10;25;09
Just like now. Here's what works. Yeah, we're not going to work.
01;10;25;11 - 01;10;31;29
Max Grover
Maybe or Yes, like he's pretty black or white, so like, it's not a lot of gray or Yeah, ambiguity.
01;10;31;29 - 01;10;36;29
Kurt Adams
But he's once said, you know, you can't commit too much overall.
01;10;37;01 - 01;11;04;10
Max Grover
Well well and you don't have time to mess around either. Right. When you have that many transactions going. And it's yes, it's important. And yes, you want it to be a nice product and yes, you want it to benefit the community, but it's still like it's not it's not changing the bottom line per se. So it's like a I get it too, where it's like, sorry, like yes or no, we don't we don't necessarily care that this brand is going to not be here or not.
01;11;04;13 - 01;11;12;19
Kurt Adams
Yeah, well you know, with Matt in particular given and you generally you've talked to him, you understand the volume he's dealing with and you.
01;11;12;19 - 01;11;13;28
Max Grover
Understand.
01;11;14;01 - 01;11;14;27
Kurt Adams
And you understand.
01;11;14;27 - 01;11;15;05
Max Grover
That.
01;11;15;05 - 01;11;41;19
Kurt Adams
If this is his restraint, I think with Matt more than anything else and, you know, here's a word to anybody who wants to come in, look at doing land deals. You have to come up like you know what you're doing. Because if there's any inclination that you don't know what you're doing or you're not willing to work with us, then it's very easy for him to just let it sit there and, you know, he doesn't have to do the deal, you know?
01;11;41;20 - 01;11;49;29
Kurt Adams
Sure. That's, you know and the reputation and, you know, yeah, I know what you're doing and come in and things will get done.
01;11;50;04 - 01;12;07;03
Max Grover
But that's where you guys have to be good, too, because you're with highly sophisticated real estate attorneys and corporations in itself and in your negotiations. So you guys that, sure, there's some pressure on that end, too, where it's like, hey, we don't want to miss something.
01;12;07;06 - 01;12;13;19
Chris Prins
When you guys do stuff like purchase agreement wise, do you always use your purchase agreement or do you ever have corporations come back to you and say, the.
01;12;13;19 - 01;12;16;27
Answer is yes, they do.
01;12;17;00 - 01;12;22;16
Chris Prins
Which I understand that they are that your attorneys are going to be looking at. It's okay, let's use our form. If you're buying our dirt, you can use our office.
01;12;22;16 - 01;12;23;22
Max Grover
And they are. ATTORNEY Yeah.
01;12;23;24 - 01;12;30;23
Kurt Adams
Yeah. It's kind of like if we give you our agreement and you send it back and it's got over 50% redline on it.
01;12;30;25 - 01;12;32;22
Chris Prins
Yeah. Take it or leave it death.
01;12;32;25 - 01;12;39;23
Yeah. You know, this is a file. Did you get that offer. Yeah, it was filed last week.
01;12;39;25 - 01;12;54;12
Kurt Adams
We had a we all know some attorneys in particular real estate attorneys need to be able to justify the time and the amount that they're billing their customer.
01;12;54;15 - 01;13;08;19
Max Grover
So I don't even know that it always is that case where I think when you're looking at these deals from the worst case scenario, every single time, every single day, and then you see explosion on the back end if you don't think through. So I get it. Yeah.
01;13;08;21 - 01;13;13;26
Kurt Adams
But we do deal with a lot of attorneys in particular out of state where there's other.
01;13;13;28 - 01;13;15;21
Max Grover
Little word that as well.
01;13;15;23 - 01;13;33;11
Kurt Adams
It's not change they'll go through and they'll change a number of items and then you come back and you explain why we do it the way we do it. Yeah, we do it to maintain consistency. We do it because in reality it's not a detriment to the to the buyer. They may not the buyer themselves may not see it, but they're just taking their attorneys word.
01;13;33;14 - 01;13;39;02
Kurt Adams
And you sit through meeting after meeting. It's like you're not catching this. Yeah, you know.
01;13;39;04 - 01;13;40;23
It doesn't that that's where.
01;13;40;28 - 01;13;49;10
Max Grover
That's where when you're the owner and you're the the driving force and you don't have to sell this to hit the bottom line number. Yeah.
01;13;49;13 - 01;13;50;08
Chris Prins
Yeah.
01;13;50;11 - 01;13;51;27
Back to the filing folder. Yeah.
01;13;52;00 - 01;13;54;22
Chris Prins
We can go. We can go find your competitor or whatnot. Right.
01;13;54;25 - 01;13;55;11
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
01;13;55;14 - 01;13;55;25
Chris Prins
Check it out.
01;13;55;27 - 01;14;01;25
Kurt Adams
It's kind of like, you know, you have to identify us. We don't have to indemnify you. Yeah, it's a constant struggle.
01;14;01;25 - 01;14;05;01
It's like that makes sense. I can't.
01;14;05;01 - 01;14;06;13
Kurt Adams
Give you a good reason. It's just.
01;14;06;13 - 01;14;07;16
Because. It's just.
01;14;07;22 - 01;14;10;19
Chris Prins
It is the way we do stuff. Yeah. Take it or leave it.
01;14;10;21 - 01;14;11;07
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
01;14;11;09 - 01;14;19;17
Max Grover
Well, anything, uh, I mean, from the Meyers side. Anything else that you want to talk about or leave us with or.
01;14;19;19 - 01;14;20;02
Chris Prins
I mean, we.
01;14;20;06 - 01;14;22;20
Max Grover
Keep going to, but it's really.
01;14;22;23 - 01;14;28;27
Chris Prins
Last words. Amy, Any recommendation? What about for those getting into real estate.
01;14;29;00 - 01;14;50;10
Kurt Adams
For those getting into real estate? Once again, I think getting as much experience in as many different fields as you can as as we mentioned, you know, property management transitions in the real estate. Well, I personally think construction the property management real estate has been a great progression for me. Yeah, Find a mentor. Chris, you've done a call.
01;14;50;10 - 01;15;05;26
Kurt Adams
Chris Chris is a great mentor. I can tell you firsthand, Chris is a great mentor. You know, most people in real estate similar to, you know, your podcast, you're more than willing to talk and wasn't willing to lend that expertise. You know, we.
01;15;05;26 - 01;15;08;16
Max Grover
Talked my mentor too, that you knew Arnie Grover.
01;15;08;17 - 01;15;10;01
Kurt Adams
Yeah. So, yeah, yeah.
01;15;10;08 - 01;15;25;07
Max Grover
I mean, that's that's so important because there are thousands of ways to be involved or to do real estate, to have somebody that's been through the trenches and figured out a niche to share that. I mean, it's so, so valuable.
01;15;25;09 - 01;15;39;14
Kurt Adams
Yeah. And we talked about it before the show. Bob Girders was huge. I mean, you know, Bob's kind of an icon in the area himself, but, you know, working for him, I learned a lot. I'll say the same thing from Mike Kelly working at Wolverine.
01;15;39;16 - 01;15;40;00
Max Grover
Oh, sure.
01;15;40;02 - 01;15;49;22
Kurt Adams
You got to take a basically everybody you work with and gain positives and negatives. You know, there's probably twice as many people out there I've worked with that. I've learned how not to do things.
01;15;49;24 - 01;15;51;27
Chris Prins
Yeah. And so to learn from everyone and.
01;15;51;28 - 01;16;12;21
Max Grover
All of those pieces, though, have helped you with what you're doing today where it's like, hey, I was on the I was on the front end of developing these buildings, both industrial retail commercial on the front end. You're on this side of the table, you're on the construction side, which is a huge piece to the development. And now you're now you're sitting on the seller side.
01;16;12;21 - 01;16;16;24
Max Grover
So you're not, you understand the constraints. Yeah.
01;16;16;26 - 01;16;17;22
Kurt Adams
Yeah.
01;16;17;24 - 01;16;21;22
Max Grover
And sometimes you still don't care.
01;16;21;24 - 01;16;22;27
In his home town, he.
01;16;22;27 - 01;16;26;14
Chris Prins
Doesn't.
01;16;26;16 - 01;16;31;10
Maniacal a lot, but yeah.
01;16;31;12 - 01;16;32;16
Chris Prins
Well, thank you so much, Kurt.
01;16;32;20 - 01;16;38;08
Max Grover
We really appreciate you coming in and spending the time with us. It's awesome. I can I could keep going, but.
01;16;38;11 - 01;16;39;20
Kurt Adams
Yeah, yeah.
01;16;39;22 - 01;16;41;07
Chris Prins
This is awesome. Thank you so much.
01;16;41;07 - 01;16;42;05
Kurt Adams
I'm from Greg.
01;16;42;05 - 01;16;45;09
Max Grover
Here. We'll have you back on sometime, too, and maybe we'll bring back Matt.
01;16;45;09 - 01;16;47;10
Yeah, we're gonna bring that and we'll grow a little bit.
01;16;47;11 - 01;16;51;19
Max Grover
Yeah, maybe. Maybe soften them up to us.
01;16;51;22 - 01;17;10;08
And we'll get They want that. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. Yeah.