Max Sieplinga: Unraveling the Tape of Howies Hockey

Welcome to a special episode of "Unraveling the Tape of Howies Hockey" Today, we're sitting down with the visionary behind Howie's Hockey Tape, Max Sieplinga. We delve into the journey of this iconic brand from concept to its current global presence. Join us for insights, anecdotes, and a conversation that goes beyond the tape and into the heart of the game we all love.

Transcript

00:00:06:14 - 00:00:15:02
Chris Prins
Episode number 11, The Max and Chris Show. I should say the Max, Max and Chris Show at this point. So I'll let Max introduce kind of our guest.

00:00:15:03 - 00:00:39:06
Max Grover
Yeah. Last episode we had the Chris Prince of this Chris Prince filling in for Chris Prince. We couldn't find another Max Grover, so we settled for Max settling the owner of Howie's hockey tape here in Grand Rapids. And we're doing we're super excited that you came in and got a rose up and a bright yellow bronco with smiley face lights and the whole nine yards.

00:00:39:06 - 00:01:01:00
Max Grover
It's so good. I got, of course, anybody that knows me, I showed up late for my own podcast and I still had to stop and take take the minute to take the picture outside so that I could post it later. But it's do we're doing like a whole is we're doing a whole Instagram. I'm doing all Instagram for the show and everything too.

00:01:01:00 - 00:01:25:01
Max Grover
So it's like, I'll take some pictures from I took like Chris Brown's basketball stats. He was number 13 all time for Calvin, for Calvin, basketball number 13, all time. Yeah. And then I think the comment below was like that I added for the Instagram was something like another reason why this Chris Prince is better than I don't doubt it.

00:01:25:01 - 00:01:40:18
Max Grover
And so no, but super thankful that you came on and talked to Simon. No, you're super busy and grown like crazy. And then he brought us cool hats. So how he's rope hats and that way cooler than the moxie ones.

00:01:40:19 - 00:01:43:08
Chris Prins
Yeah, well, we'll get a couple of photos of those two in post.

00:01:43:08 - 00:01:47:02
Max Grover
Yeah. Yeah. There you go. I need to moxie swag, though.

00:01:47:04 - 00:01:48:01
Chris Prins
Okay.

00:01:48:03 - 00:02:09:22
Max Grover
I will get it to you. But. And I actually wanted to talk to you about this, too, because we're doing. We're, we're so embarrassing on some of the stuff, but we just put in that big order of like, we got 12 canned coolers, we got koozies pens like that we can actually hand out. I got Chris a gift he doesn't know.

00:02:09:22 - 00:02:34:00
Max Grover
Yes, it's not here yet, but I got Chris a gift in for the new baby. Like we're we're getting there. But then I it goes back to what we were talking about before recording. Like the comparison thing. Then I jump on your website and I was like, excited. Like, okay, cool. He's like a normal thing that you might throw on as swag, right thing with the cool.

00:02:34:02 - 00:02:56:07
Max Grover
And then I got a nurse and there's like that koozie so much cooler than anything we can use. These are cool. All right, so first off, I see your stuff at the ranks. I'm jealous. I think your stuff looks good, but I have the exact same like issue because I'll hop on a bower or a loop or something like that, or, you know, a title, this website.

00:02:56:07 - 00:03:14:17
Max Grover
And I'll be like, Dude, my stuff is cool, but it's not nearly as cool as everything else out there, right? Like, I don't I don't know how I actually stack up compared to like, what is brands out there? Bauer, Bauer, Lululemon swear like they just said they collab Yeah. Yep And I was like, oh, it'd be so much cooler had it been you got it.

00:03:14:17 - 00:03:43:15
Max Grover
Not just because I know you, but just because like, I mean, Lululemon is pretty unbranded and like, they don't do it. It's nice stuff, but it's like cool. So. Right. And that's why I was like, Man, that would be so much cooler to see. It would be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. When I was talking to Josh Smith the other day, he was talking about how Ralph Lauren, like, did a, he did a thing the other day where he he kind of like compared his brand to all of the other brands out there.

00:03:43:15 - 00:04:01:12
Max Grover
And he's like, you know, the quality, the clothes is all kind of on the same level. It's more about like the marketing and what people think and how you it's like psychological, like how you feel when you know you're wearing whatever brand you're wearing when you walk in, you know, like, well, I have a maxi roper and now I'm wearing yours.

00:04:01:12 - 00:04:04:08
Max Grover
And I can tell you the quality's way. I really, I don't know.

00:04:04:10 - 00:04:05:19
Chris Prins
I don't do it.

00:04:05:21 - 00:04:12:16
Max Grover
It's actually it's a tear, but it's a deed. It it was a Adidas hat, but it's not as nice as it's really not as nice as this.

00:04:12:16 - 00:04:24:06
Chris Prins
Yeah, and that's so true. When I look at like, coffee brands to it. Oh, sure. The Starbucks. Yeah. Coffee's coffee at the end of the day, like it really is. But you feel like more power cooler. Yeah. Pairing up or this or the.

00:04:24:06 - 00:04:43:03
Max Grover
Yeti versus Stanley the Stanley thing right now and like everybody's got the Stanley Cup. Yeah I saw a great video of this. Mom was like me with my Stanley and she's carrying around like the big huge like the. Yeah, I can't see it, but we have a huge water jet. I see it. Yeah. And she's like, carry that around with the straw.

00:04:43:03 - 00:05:06:13
Max Grover
Like banging. Yes. A good Yeah, that's funny. But. And I guess I have a million questions and you can jump in too, but I'm just kind of and I'm going to forget so many things and people are going to be so upset with me because I told some of my close friends and stuff and obviously hockey background, they're pumped that you're coming out like, Oh, this is fantastic.

00:05:06:15 - 00:05:29:00
Max Grover
You got to ask them this. And then I already forgot everything. But starting out, Grand Rapids Christian High School, right? And I'm like, still even I think it was two or three years ago, I saw an article and this is where, like I say, I wish that I was better at some of the stuff like, I saw this really cool art of you in Grand Rapids.

00:05:29:00 - 00:05:30:22
Max Grover
Christian Yeah, and.

00:05:31:00 - 00:05:33:16
Chris Prins
The City League days right now.

00:05:33:18 - 00:05:57:02
Max Grover
Max was like voted like the best athlete of all time or top five. That was a what was that list you remember? It was funny because it was like, yeah, I was like, you know, best athletes out of Grand Rapids. Christian after the year 2000 and it was like an NBA dude and an NFL dude. And then me, you know, was like, So, you know, it was all Larry because I saw it.

00:05:57:02 - 00:06:17:10
Max Grover
But that sort of like the little touches, like, I wish I would have taken that. Yeah, laminated because it's pretty cool. It was cool but no example crap because you won state championship in soccer. Yeah. And and and then you were obviously hockey star. Yep. Played pretty good. But I don't. I made a little tennis too. And then tennis.

00:06:17:10 - 00:06:35:19
Max Grover
Yeah. And you did you, you didn't win state in hockey did you, when you're there. No. But winning in soccer like. Yeah. I've talked to a lot of people and they're like, oh yeah, and maybe I'll embarrass you with this, but they're like, Yeah, Max, Max is not on the team. It doesn't happen. Like, he was unbelievable. I worked hard.

00:06:35:20 - 00:06:55:13
Max Grover
That's all I got going for. I'm played. You know that kid? I've played you immensely. I know, I know. Having grown up playing, you know, men's league and stuff with you. Yeah, I think you're probably. I don't like losing. You're probably, like, five years older than me, so you're like the When did you graduate? Oh seven? Okay. I was oh two at the time.

00:06:55:17 - 00:07:33:23
Max Grover
Yeah. Okay, I. Tonya Yeah, but I went to East Count World and I didn't even sniff the list of top athletes. Yeah, I wasn't even in the conversation. Yeah, I think it's pretty cool. I mean, the the soccer like. And then. Did you states and tennis too or. Yeah, we would not like personally but our team went and we were all right But again like, it's funny I played all these sports in the city league but like we would go play Ottawa Hills in in, in tennis or hockey and it was like 23 to 1 or zero, you know, same thing in tennis, like, yeah.

00:07:34:01 - 00:07:35:16
Chris Prins
After the first half, like, yeah.

00:07:35:18 - 00:07:36:18
Max Grover
Yeah. Did you play.

00:07:36:19 - 00:07:53:09
Chris Prins
Everywhere? So I played soccer, yeah. Clawson Oh, yeah. Oh, no way up. So you were always Florida and then baseball. Yeah. So, yeah, I remember the city league. They, like you play like Creston, Ottawa Hills. You just beat down them. Yeah. West Catholic and Catholic Central were always good matchups, but besides that.

00:07:53:12 - 00:07:55:14
Max Grover
Do they still talk about Max even in the.

00:07:55:20 - 00:08:02:21
Chris Prins
I think we did. I think we heard the name. Yeah. At least from the soccer standpoint. Yeah. I mean Grams Christian doesn't have that many state championships. No.

00:08:02:21 - 00:08:09:15
Max Grover
And Jake just to. Yeah. In soccer and soccer. Yeah. I mean football I would imagine that football.

00:08:09:15 - 00:08:12:05
Chris Prins
I think you got a couple baseball. I think we got a couple.

00:08:12:09 - 00:08:26:02
Max Grover
Yeah. Huh. How how intense is the Grand Rapids Christian versus, like South Christian rivalry? Is that a fan? No, not really. Just because, like, when we were there, they weren't, like, in league, are they? They might be in league now, maybe.

00:08:26:06 - 00:08:28:01
Chris Prins
I don't know. I haven't kept up with it. Yeah.

00:08:28:01 - 00:08:40:13
Max Grover
No, it was always Catholic Central when, when I'm. Oh sure. Yeah. The nation's. So there's Catholic Catholics now. Yeah. And I don't know what I'm allowed to say.

00:08:40:17 - 00:08:49:06
Unknown
I guess I was going to bring him here. I'm like, we can edit it out. Yeah. Yeah.

00:08:49:07 - 00:09:20:20
Max Grover
I was going to say I know I'm not going to say I'm a little more straining on this one. Yeah, I'll even restrain myself. But now that's so. So you go in Grand Rapids, Christian doing the sports thing and for anybody that you do, try really hard. But then you're also very you are very talented too. And it is horrible to play this guy in hockey because, you know, he's going to backtrack like, you know, he's going to you know, he's driving wide, you know, he's going to do like the little bit.

00:09:20:20 - 00:09:42:11
Max Grover
And and when we when we grew up, I mean, we're all still playing to play and still drop in and that type of thing. Yeah. And so some of those games will get like pretty serious and stuff and people will like the crew that you're skating with. And then my Kentwood boys and like some of those little screaming for some of them would be like, Yeah, you'd be like, okay, like your chance to show up to play.

00:09:42:12 - 00:09:45:14
Max Grover
That's because everyone's coming for each other now.

00:09:45:16 - 00:09:52:07
Chris Prins
So Max, where did you learn that competitiveness? Did it come from any where specific that you can kind of roll back?

00:09:52:07 - 00:09:54:00
Max Grover
Not that I can think about, yeah.

00:09:54:00 - 00:09:55:15
Chris Prins
Was it always just there, Remember?

00:09:55:17 - 00:10:17:13
Max Grover
Yeah, I think so. I just hated losing from, from day one. Yeah. So it comes this a name messenger comes with the name be little player. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. That's yeah. I'm going to go with that. There's a little something to it. Yeah. Now there's no one person or one event or anything that I can think of, you know, just, I don't know.

00:10:17:14 - 00:10:18:18
Chris Prins
It's hard to lose an end.

00:10:18:18 - 00:10:41:09
Max Grover
Of it, and it's you and Eli, I any. Do you have any other suggestions? No, just us. Yeah. I was watching my kid play soccer like his first legit game with, like, Jersey and stuff this weekend. And my dad and I were just watching and, you know, he's. He was talking about that. How just kind of different. Eli and I were like, Eli is Eli was probably more talented than I was.

00:10:41:09 - 00:11:03:00
Max Grover
Yeah, but he's a better skater. But he's taller, too. And he's a little taller. Little a little better. Look, he's a lot better. I know. He just didn't have that killer instinct. You know? So he's still really good. But is he playing or is Henry playing that Midwest? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very. Or Sorry. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Saying it.

00:11:03:02 - 00:11:25:04
Max Grover
That's all right, Coach. Yeah, yeah. I just. Coach is. Can I say yeah. Hey, I love Henry's a terrible name too, but there's Hawks of Henry's out there, actually. Yeah, I don't like them. No, no. Now Henry's here. He's an awesome kid. Yeah, he's a good, good guy. That's a and then we were just deciding whether we were going to do.

00:11:25:06 - 00:11:41:21
Max Grover
I think we are going to just do, like the. You can do like a real. Is he doing a real team, then? I don't think for hockey. No. For. For Midwest. Yeah. Yeah. He got on like a team last minute. I know some of the guys at Midwest and they're like, dude, can he, can you jump in? Like, just practice stuff?

00:11:41:21 - 00:12:03:05
Max Grover
He likes it, you know? Yeah. So we're doing like, we're going to do it as well. But like the step down where it was just like six, eight weeks or whatever for like one more year. Yeah, exactly. And then take just as she's doing like a girls team. Nice. And she's like, hey, like when your kids and because we did our summer camp.

00:12:03:05 - 00:12:21:03
Max Grover
Yeah. Which was like 90%, it was almost there was one guy coach was like six girl coach. So I'm like, yeah, I have three girls, two of them that are old enough to skate. And I'm like, All right, let's set them out there. Jacob and his kid. Oh, nice. And, and then Zach had his kids out there, too.

00:12:21:03 - 00:12:44:01
Max Grover
Yeah. Oh, the skating too. But it was like it was cool to see. To, like, have a girl, like, run camp for the girls. And then all of a sudden she texted me, she's like, Hey, would they want to be like the last couple kids on this roster and like, real a team this year? Like, legit? Yeah, I'm like, Nah, nah, nah, I'm not either.

00:12:44:03 - 00:12:54:06
Max Grover
It's so much. It is. It's so much. Yeah, it's a lot. How many you got it on your. We afford it. Yeah. I mean do you. We have four too. Yeah. So for.

00:12:54:06 - 00:12:55:02
Chris Prins
The ages they were.

00:12:55:02 - 00:13:20:01
Max Grover
About the same as her. Yeah. They are like we're seven and five and like three and a half and, like, almost two. So we're seven. Reese is going to turn six. Okay. At the end of the month, Otis is four and a turn five. And are those two. So it's almost that is and you're going to have to like deal with me a hockey see my dumb face at the buzzer a lot of.

00:13:20:01 - 00:13:22:13
Chris Prins
You're missing to yeah yeah.

00:13:22:15 - 00:13:33:19
Max Grover
Yeah really on brand yeah yeah Oh I knew the how his thing was coming up on the match The guy I got the right. That's right. There's the black guy.

00:13:33:21 - 00:13:34:13
Chris Prins
That comes later.

00:13:34:13 - 00:14:03:14
Max Grover
In the podcast. My wife. My wife had some, you know, so yeah, that's cool. And then high school growing up is Christian too. Calvin to Calvin. Yep. Okay. How is it you play? Did you play soccer at Calvin too then? I did, and I talked to the coach a few times about playing on the team because I knew I knew all the, you know, half our high school team went to Calvin, right?

00:14:03:14 - 00:14:23:02
Max Grover
That's what you do. And the other half went the hope. And the other happens. Exactly. So no, it mild regret there. But like I, I had so much going on with hockey in school and I was better at hockey soccer. I would have. Were you really better? They do truly you are better at hockey than so. I think so.

00:14:23:04 - 00:14:43:14
Max Grover
Probably. Yeah. You're good at hockey. Yeah, I didn't get Z ever. I didn't play soccer. Something to watch. But I always hear like yeah, about the soccer thing. Like, yeah, yeah he was so yeah, I was Irish and they say the same over but they were a lot better guys out there. I would have been like some outside back or something in college for soccer, you know nothing like super important.

00:14:43:20 - 00:15:04:03
Max Grover
And so did you, Did you guys, who was the coach at Calvin when you were there for the pictures? Yeah, for hockey. PETRUSMA Okay. Has he been there like he followed me, man. Like when I started playing high school hockey as a sophomore, he was the coach and then. Edgar Christian Guess. CHRISTIAN Yeah. And then the year I graduated high school, he got the job at Calvin.

00:15:04:03 - 00:15:16:13
Max Grover
So yeah. So seven years in a row with the same coach. Oh, my gosh, You guys are probably so sick of each other. I saw him yesterday, so he's a good dude. Either get to.

00:15:16:15 - 00:15:18:03
Chris Prins
The Billy Wonder gym plan.

00:15:18:05 - 00:15:21:03
Max Grover
He did use it. You were you in school with him?

00:15:21:03 - 00:15:30:00
Chris Prins
So. No. So I am good friends with his brother Charlie. Yeah. So you never met Billy? Yeah. Yeah. Bunch of great stories. And I know he was a Calvin Legend.

00:15:30:02 - 00:15:45:23
Max Grover
He was, man. He was? Yeah. He scored some big goals for us, so, yeah, he was awesome. Did you guys did you win the Nationals at all or anything? We did, yeah. I think we, we took, I think we had to like third places and we won it once. And so, yeah, it was good. We were a good team.

00:15:46:00 - 00:16:08:07
Max Grover
So the year before I came in, they won like two games and then we had a really good freshman class who came in. There was another kid out of Wimpy Nick for Kyle who came in and I like, he was really good. And so yeah, him and I, and we had another, you know, a handful of good players in like that year where we went from went in two games the year before.

00:16:08:07 - 00:16:25:19
Max Grover
I can get in third in the nation, you know. So it was like that. It was cool. Yeah. And even to this day, like when you, like show up at the beer league and if there's too many Kelvin helmets on the other team, you're like, I guess we're in for a night. So you're going to have they have good skaters like, Oh, they do for sure.

00:16:25:19 - 00:16:58:21
Max Grover
Like those young kids. Like they got a kid from Poland right now. So they're playing D1 actually, and they got a kid from Poland named Kristoff. He works in my warehouse and this kid was like fifth in the country in scoring for D1 AC, which is it's some pretty scale, you know, So I don't know how they got this guy, but and they're like and it's like, sure, it's like club hockey, but there are like this stories in there are the people in the kids that you play with in like all season and stuff and you know, like, don't know the story, don't know what happened or didn't happen or why.

00:16:58:23 - 00:17:18:15
Max Grover
Yeah, but there's a handful of those kids that could be playing at, you know, your CHL or. Yeah, even Division one had they had the rink coach in the right time or the right. Yes. Or didn't bring up that. Yeah. Yeah it's it's what was your story. I'm so curious like you you graduated Kentwood. I know hockey or not or did you had to go play juniors right or not.

00:17:18:15 - 00:17:44:01
Max Grover
I went, I went East Kentwood, I got caught my freshman year. So I'm from Kentwood. Bom caught you. He caught me. But they were, they were stepdad. Yeah. Yeah, they were. You. Were you out of high school? Oh seven Okay. So Thomas was a senior? Yes. Yeah. I think he was a tremendous had left already and went from in district gone James Zach Like Jake Ekins.

00:17:44:02 - 00:18:00:21
Max Grover
Yep. There was that bravado. There was a handful of kids that were very good. I'm that same. And then if I was, if I like hindsight, look, if I had made the same, I want to play like it. Yeah, it's always nice since it's so much better.

00:18:01:03 - 00:18:05:03
Chris Prins
Michael Jordan story.

00:18:05:05 - 00:18:06:09
Max Grover
Is not the ending with that.

00:18:06:09 - 00:18:09:20
Chris Prins
Billy story. Yeah.

00:18:09:22 - 00:18:41:10
Max Grover
Yeah. This story ends sometime in my sophomore year. Yes, but cut then made it sophomore junior year. And I still have a baby face. So, like, I was like, I'm in part, I was probably getting close that like, I still look like a baby. And I was. But I was pudgy then, like, am now. Right? But then I went to a camp and I came in, I think it was to Saint Marie and it was a junior.

00:18:41:10 - 00:19:04:16
Max Grover
It was like the Black Bears or something like that. Okay. And I go to this camp and first of all, my brother Zach, like I had never seen a real hockey fight. Yeah, I don't think Zach had ever been in a hockey fight. And, like, this guy, that was, like, the tough guy at the camp. Yeah. And I'm like, he, like, squares up with Zach and drops glove, and I'm, like, sitting on the bench, and I'm like, Oh, my God.

00:19:04:18 - 00:19:27:09
Max Grover
We're like, He's a dead man. He's a dead man. And and they square off and Zach just beat up this kid. Really? Oh, yeah. Like, I saw the kid after the game. His eyes were sworn shot is no way. And oh, yeah, it was bad. I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, yeah, he's pretty good. And that's awesome.

00:19:27:11 - 00:19:54:03
Max Grover
So. So don't fight your brother Zach. No, don't. Yeah, he's a he's like, he's like you. Or they just don't. You're like, dude, like, you're. You lost. You lost. Like, No, no, I didn't. I never I don't lose. Like, I'm going to come back. I'll, I'll do that. But anyways, so that at that camp I, I made it to the All-Star Game and they're like, wow, you really, you know, you really should be playing triple-A.

00:19:54:03 - 00:20:18:02
Max Grover
Like, Yeah, we really think you should go play triple-A. Would we maybe take a flier on you? But the fact that you're just playing high school like you shouldn't do that, right? So whatever. I was going back to high school either way, that was that was it between software engineer. Then junior year after the season, I went to Traverse City's camp and they ended up drafting me after like an open camp.

00:20:18:04 - 00:20:41:21
Max Grover
Was that the enforcers? The stars? Yeah. So I got drafted, moved up there for my senior year and I was, I was on the team, but I wasn't playing. And once again they're like, you know, so and so like, yeah, they played triple-A last year and you just played high school. So in my mind I'm like, you know, getting drilled by all these coaches of like, you need to play triple-A.

00:20:41:23 - 00:21:00:07
Max Grover
And then I had a choice to make them like not playing. I can either go back to Kentwood. Yeah, which I like hindsight, I don't. So when was this, like October, like before high school hockey started? Yeah, it was like right before if I had already been up there in August, like in high school, I was taking two gym classes.

00:21:00:09 - 00:21:24:17
Max Grover
Oh, math class. What school were you going to? I was in Trojan, Traverse City Central, and it was like, get to school. I think I had math theology, two gym classes in a row, lunch. And then I was done for school and went to the rink and then went to the rink for the rest of the day. But I wasn't playing, so I was like in just a misery.

00:21:24:17 - 00:21:46:11
Max Grover
So I had a choice to make and I was like, Screw it, I'm not playing. So I started driving back and forth, practicing with the junior team and playing games on the weekends for Little Caesars, triple-A like in Detroit and Detroit. No? Yeah. So and then I'm like, This is crazy. I'm having way more fun down actually playing like power, play penalty, kill everything.

00:21:46:11 - 00:22:08:01
Max Grover
So Caesar's was playing you all the time? Yeah. Yeah. That was the competition. That much different. Like level hockey. That's. No, not at all. It's I mean, you have some 21 year old kids, obviously, versus like eight. Everyone's 18 in triple-A. We're like kids. Some of those 21 year old kids, but not really. Yeah, the speed wasn't that much different.

00:22:08:03 - 00:22:32:00
Max Grover
And so I finished a year out there and then I got tendered by Alexandria. I was planning on going to Alexandria in the Native American League, and I said, Scott Locke, the coach for Grand GROSS Point, was like, Did a lot of those Michigan elite high school teams? And I just I went with a group of buddies by happenstance to this Detroit tournament.

00:22:32:00 - 00:22:43:22
Max Grover
It was with my high school buddies that were all pissed at me because I didn't come back in their culture and I think they lost in the finals. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's a make it even worse. And you're like, Oh my God.

00:22:44:00 - 00:22:46:14
Chris Prins
Still come off, dude.

00:22:46:15 - 00:22:50:14
Max Grover
There's a couple of kids that still don't let it. They don't let it go, right?

00:22:50:14 - 00:22:52:08
Chris Prins
You could have been Mr. East Kentwood.

00:22:52:09 - 00:23:11:07
Max Grover
No, I wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't. No wonder why you're not a top ten in anything. No. Camp one I want. The crazy thing is I want him and the best player on that team like we had. Ryan Leach played D1. Ben Dykstra is still one of the best players I've ever played with. Good. Jeff Slusser was unbelievable. And then Eric Alexander is on the team.

00:23:11:07 - 00:23:51:18
Max Grover
Yeah, who is by far and he played D1 at Ferris so it was stacked team spirit. It would have just been another like person on that team to maybe past. Yeah. So a defenseman. Yeah yeah it's kind of used a number one D Yeah yeah. On that squad there is some good Yeah. Aaron worse and if you know him I mean all those guys Jake and Jake was graduated that year but all those guys that are still on him and it's hilarious that we still hang out here but I took a flier like I'm going to this can't like random open tryouts, mostly E.J. teams out there, right scouting and Scott Locke was the scalp

00:23:51:18 - 00:24:11:22
Max Grover
for Sioux Falls stampede and I like I was one of the few kids wear and a half shield. I was playing like I was playing. I was playing a win, right? Like, just so hard. And he like, gave me like this flier. On going to the open camp at the Sioux Falls Stampede. I didn't know anybody at camp.

00:24:11:22 - 00:24:39:16
Max Grover
That's us NHL usage. So I went out to that camp and the first day of tryouts I was playing so well, like out of my mind and like, I'm on a mission at this. Right? Right, right. I'm going to make this team. Yeah. Go out to use try out at Minnesota Gophers. You play at their rank for the games and stuffs and it like this means the world to me and all these other kids are like yeah I'm already on the team or this or that right now.

00:24:39:17 - 00:25:11:10
Max Grover
I'm like, Now I'm here, I'm here, yeah, and I'm playing. So the first day, like towards the end, separate. Nick Dineen, who was the captain of the team, is annoyed me because I'm trying so hard. He hits me like in a three on three. We're like half the guys have their stick turned over, right? And he finishes it, check on me, separates my shoulder, and I have to play, I think won two more games in an all star game and I can't even lift my shoulder up.

00:25:11:12 - 00:25:30:23
Max Grover
But I still somehow, like, barely made this team. I did. I made the team and like, then I just stuck. Yeah. And if you stick in the U.S. for two years, you're going to get picked up the won by somebody. No way. So then I played there for a year and played there that the rest of that year and had oh, so much fun to do.

00:25:31:00 - 00:25:52:23
Max Grover
That's all. And then the next year I was actually I was the captain of the team. We were. Yeah. But like that, like old, like still not that good. Cool. 20 over ages. Exactly. You got buried down in the minors. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then from there, I had a few different schools that I could have gone to.

00:25:52:23 - 00:26:24:16
Max Grover
Brown with a29 GPA and a 21 on the A.C.T.. But. And Quinnipiac, I was close to doing that. Or Alabama, Huntsville, I think Western was pretty maybe 25% or walk on. I really wanted Michigan State They didn't want you know I mean yeah and then Bowling Green gave me a full ride and I was like, hey. And boy, it was basically all the guys that didn't make Michigan, Michigan State right there.

00:26:24:17 - 00:27:07:04
Max Grover
Or they're Canadian. Yeah. Then they went to Bowling Green. So the bottom tier of this easier. But it was yeah, it was so much fun to be Michigan State or Michigan. We did beat Michigan State, I want to say we did beat Michigan State a couple of times and but we beat Michigan only one time at Yost Sweet Yeah Michigan fight song and like they would their locker rooms are underneath the stands so you're hearing the Michigan fight song the place is going nuts Yeah and we had it's Emery I can't remember his first name NHL guy he went bowling green he was there before the game like pumping the guy and somehow we win.

00:27:07:08 - 00:27:30:05
Max Grover
Yeah. And then the next night, we. So it was a homecoming? Oh, yeah. Next time we play Toledo a while, I have a ring and Toledo and we played at their ring and we just go, oh they squeeze. Oh, yeah. He's like every ounce of energy that we had. Like our captain played like 40 minutes or something the night before.

00:27:30:05 - 00:27:58:08
Max Grover
And they like at one. I can't remember if this is the Michigan game or I'm almost positive it was the Michigan game in Toledo and all of a sudden it was like, I'd have to go look what the score is like for nothing. Yeah, you look somebody down for goals. Yeah, some of these skates by the band from Michigan and they just go point night boys like, oh it's like, oh he was married.

00:27:58:10 - 00:28:19:10
Max Grover
Oh so that Yeah that was kind of the story. And then yeah, I played three of the four years at BG and the same old story that everyone can give you excuses of this and that, but it's just like at some point it ends for everybody. Yeah, Yeah. So that was so much fun. Yeah, that's all that. That's hilarious.

00:28:19:10 - 00:28:49:18
Max Grover
Now I feel like a douche for talking. It's great. Yeah, that's a But then back to the more important Max. Like Calvin College doing the hockey thing to win two games a year before you get there to couple of national championships. Obviously you're passionate about hockey. Yeah. And then how did how did the how is hockey? The concept was that at Calvin the story I always hear is that it was a it was like a project, the school project.

00:28:49:18 - 00:29:10:08
Max Grover
Yeah. No, that's not quite right. Okay. So my old man, even like even when I was playing triple-A hockey and then kind of migrated into high school, he kind of had the idea. I mean, he got real sick of me coming up to him at a tournament going, Hey, I need, you know, five bucks for her old tape.

00:29:10:08 - 00:29:34:02
Max Grover
And we're in Toronto. I mean, you know, it's nonstop. Yeah. If if you're not a hockey player, you don't get it. But it's just wild. How much do me money? Because I follow you on Instagram and they're like, somebody put out a meme like it was like 12 in the afternoon games at seven. He's like, Hey, can I borrow a roll clear to cash in that It was like already asking, It's crazy.

00:29:34:04 - 00:29:47:07
Max Grover
But yeah, it's so it's it's on top of already being expensive. It's just like that nickel and dime. Yeah it's the worst. It is. You don't want to be the first guy to like, make the noise of pornography on a like the of dudes.

00:29:47:09 - 00:29:48:06
Chris Prins
All that matter.

00:29:48:06 - 00:30:14:13
Max Grover
Yeah. Can I get that You borrow that you know, so it's crazy. So yeah. So his idea was to kind of set it up as just an online business where you can buy in bulk, buy 30 rolls at a time. And so he kind of started that right during high school. And I think I remember guys doing like when I was on the Grizzlies that I remember Eli had started to it makes sense.

00:30:14:13 - 00:30:32:02
Max Grover
Yeah, like I remember. I can't it's so obvious now that you're saying that, but somebody was doing that. Hey, Eli. Yeah. And we would go around like, at tournaments and, like, put little cards and all the, the windows, like, under the windshield wipers and it was it already this guy. No, I guess a version of who came up with the logo.

00:30:32:02 - 00:30:49:07
Max Grover
Yeah. So my old man was, is a photographer was a photographer growing up and also kind of a bit of a graphic designer. But he didn't come up with that logo. But he knew everyone in that industry, right? So he hired a there's a local guy named Jeff Mueller who came up with that logo. And the guy is phenomenal.

00:30:49:07 - 00:31:06:14
Max Grover
He also came up with that cursive H on the hat. Yeah, yeah, that looks like the Rolex. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it's a sweatshirt. So. Yeah. So Jeff came up with the logo and like, all these little things that I mean, you guys have done such a good job with your branding too, but all that stuff is really, really important.

00:31:06:17 - 00:31:30:05
Max Grover
Yeah. The colors that, that we just, I mean, it was super intentional by my dad, like, and I never would have been able to come up with something like that. So he kind of like laid the foundation for all these things. And then when I was at Calvin, I'm like, you know, Dad, it's it's all it's great that you're selling like one box of tape every week, but, you know, why don't I start calling on some local teams and rinks, you know?

00:31:30:05 - 00:31:56:04
Max Grover
So I called Jason Goodell at Lakeshore. You know, Piatek here in town, John Baker at Kentwood. And they say, what do your what are you guys doing for for tape? You know, and a lot of these guys kind of knew me and they gave me a chance or even like the club teams around here, right? So yeah, that's what I would that's what I was doing at Calvin, just trying to get those bigger sales from like little local pro shops now is a cool part time job.

00:31:56:06 - 00:32:22:04
Max Grover
And then the funny thing is, it's funny that I'm talking to you guys about this, but I had an internship my senior year, second semester for Kevin Einfeld and BTR Homes. But yeah, yeah. And I was kind of like looking at getting into real estate development, but that was. 0606 So like, I think I dodged a couple of bullets there, you know?

00:32:22:06 - 00:32:28:03
Max Grover
So yeah, you would have been a deep now and you're going full bore, baby. Yes. Yeah.

00:32:28:04 - 00:32:30:17
Chris Prins
What you study, Kelvin? Just big business.

00:32:30:17 - 00:32:55:08
Max Grover
Yeah. They didn't even have, like, specifications. It was just straight up business. Yeah. So. Yeah, so do that. So instead of real estate developer development, I just. So you know what? Let's see if I can make enough money to just pay for my really simple, inexpensive life, you know? And, yeah, it was fine. We did. And I always thought it would be a cool, you know, one person job.

00:32:55:09 - 00:33:17:23
Max Grover
And then it just kind of kept going from there. So I wish I could recall. But like for me, like Outsider was like, and I knew this was going on. And I mean, you said that's a pretty quick version of it. But like I remember the first time because it's like prone not to give other people shout outs here, but like Pro Guard ran for.

00:33:17:23 - 00:33:39:23
Max Grover
Yeah. And I'm trying to think Jaybird was out there pretty heavily And so there's these brands out there and all the rinks and when you're in juniors and in college the tapes paid for by the teams. Yeah. And you show up at the locker room in the guest locker room and I remember the first time I wish I could remember where you played college hockey when you first saw Howie.

00:33:40:00 - 00:33:59:03
Max Grover
I think it was I think it was in juniors, maybe even in the visiting locker as possible. And that but I do, I guess I wish I could remember. I remember I just remember seeing and be like, Oh my gosh, this happened. Yeah, yeah. Like this is the guy. And he grew up playing with his brother, like there all the way out here, right?

00:33:59:04 - 00:34:19:13
Max Grover
This is. Yeah, it was like it was pretty cool to see that. And that makes sense. And then it just ramped up even more through the college years where I was like pretty much I there was the occasional Canadiens, you know, that still were like for whatever, the Renfrew with the stretchy. Yeah, but other than that, like it was always Yeah, it was hot.

00:34:19:14 - 00:34:19:19
Max Grover
Yeah.

00:34:19:22 - 00:34:27:14
Chris Prins
So what was that growth pattern like then from obviously your initial anticipation was, okay, we're going to have one employee doing this.

00:34:27:16 - 00:34:47:14
Max Grover
Yeah, well, at first it was like, Yeah, yeah. And then I would, there would be like people that I knew at Calvin who so Jason Cool, who's my CFO now, like he actually like, you know, we're both like juniors in college playing hockey. I'm like, Do you know if you want to come in and go in the basement of my dad?

00:34:47:14 - 00:35:07:18
Max Grover
Told photographers, Yep. We'll sit it with a computer and a phone. You can make calls stop. He's been there since the start. Well, yeah. Then he got his girlfriend pregnant, and so. Yeah. Who is his wife now? I think she's wonderful. And I got a bunch of kids, but yeah, so he needed health insurance, and we were like, good budget this year he's.

00:35:07:18 - 00:35:09:22
Chris Prins
Sitting in the basement just making, like, soldiers.

00:35:10:00 - 00:35:27:15
Max Grover
That's all we would do. Man. It was crazy. We I mean, yeah, we would just, we had this giant database of ice arenas and junior teams and we'd just call him and, you know. So yeah, we would do that with a ton of hockey players coming through. Galvin And we probably had two or three intern is just hitting the phones, you know.

00:35:27:16 - 00:35:54:00
Max Grover
Wow, this is while you're in while I was still playing and you're in, you're hiring interns. And yeah, it was funny because I would literally it was probably but I would literally pay them $0 per hour. But if you made, you know, a sale, you get a portion of the commission, it's it's 100% commission. So yeah. And then it is the houses that we there's been different additions of this guy right.

00:35:54:00 - 00:36:15:04
Max Grover
Or is he pretty close. We he used to have a chinstrap on him but other than that that's pretty much the logo right there. That's pretty good that you guys even got like the white chinstrap and your like the, like, Yeah, that's the style. Got it. But yeah that was you guys were already rocking that and Calvin Goodness that's a great question.

00:36:15:04 - 00:36:37:07
Max Grover
We used to the funny thing is we used to sell chamber tape like when we first started like we, we weren't buying enough tape to actually get our logo on the core, right? So and then once we kind of hit that critical mass we could, which I mean, you might not remember exactly. Yeah, I would say probably the year after.

00:36:37:08 - 00:36:57:01
Max Grover
So 2006, 2007 between around 26 and 2008 is when we hit enough volume to where we could go to a manufacturer and say, hey, this is how we want it built like we were. We really took some time. And by that time I had met Brad Thompson with the Griffins dog who's the equipment guy with the Griffins, and he was he was incredible.

00:36:57:01 - 00:37:18:09
Max Grover
He's like, Dude, if you want to test this stuff out, well, let's let's actually try to make the best tape out there. Like before it was, Hey, sales and marketing, we would sell a lot on price, but once we were able to hire, cutting and make our own tape, then it was like way more fun because then we could go into a spot and say, We really think we have the best tape out there, right?

00:37:18:11 - 00:37:42:14
Max Grover
So it might have been you, but I didn't like sweaty camp with the was literally swear they count wood in the locker room. Yeah they're just brutal and like I remember somebody being like that see and they slap like half roll of on that one barrel and this other girl, it might have been you very well put them at somebody and they like this one sticks, which one's going to stick.

00:37:42:14 - 00:38:00:17
Max Grover
And the other one falls down And I'm like, Yeah, yeah. You were sold. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was already that was pre-sold. Yeah. I mean and it and just honestly, just being West Michigan, having played with Eli, knowing the family a little bit. Yeah, yeah. I mean we always knew each other or something. We're best friends or anything.

00:38:00:17 - 00:38:23:12
Max Grover
Just seeing each other. You're just cheering for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That type of. Yeah, yeah. So you hit the critical mass. Six, seven. Yeah. You're still at Calvin and Wolves graduate. No. Six. So it was kind of like right after when I really got to pour into that thing. So was when was the Griffins would say in the first team.

00:38:23:16 - 00:38:29:23
Max Grover
Yeah. No, the first one that we got was actually of any like significance was University of Minnesota.

00:38:30:01 - 00:38:32:10
Chris Prins
Yeah. The guy's name was just a cold call, that.

00:38:32:10 - 00:38:55:05
Max Grover
Totally cold call. And the funny and Harry Broadfoot was the like longtime equipment manager at the University of Minnesota. And, you know, I would call Harry and he was very blunt with me. He's like, you know, I'm not going to buy from you right now. I'm like, And you're calling he's the trainer. He's head he's the head equipment manager.

00:38:55:05 - 00:39:10:06
Max Grover
Yeah. For University of Minnesota. And so he's like, you know, I'm not going to buy from you, but you're welcome to call me if you want. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do that. I'm going to call you every, you know, 2 to 4 weeks, check in to see if and at some point you're going to need something.

00:39:10:06 - 00:39:32:23
Max Grover
Right. And I keep sending him samples. They might put these out for the boys to try and and eventually, like Harry, gave us a chance. And then did that have the guy? Yeah, we had time. It was like our own recipe. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. So Harry gave us the University of Minnesota's big name, too. Yeah. That's the pinnacle of college hockey.

00:39:33:00 - 00:39:33:09
Max Grover
I think.

00:39:33:09 - 00:39:37:10
Chris Prins
So, Yeah. Up to that point. Are you still out of your dad's garage then, Like. Yeah.

00:39:37:10 - 00:39:43:03
Max Grover
Yeah, that was a little photography studio on Michigan Street store there. That's still got the billboard on the side.

00:39:43:03 - 00:39:43:15
Chris Prins
That's all.

00:39:43:15 - 00:40:07:11
Max Grover
Yeah, that place, man. I So we're building that new building right now and it's like we had our 20 year, we had a big thing in our parking lot last year and we kind of went down memory lane. Wow. Yeah, it's cool, but it was like I, I, I didn't take any photos of that old photography studio, you know, like, I just wish I had taken more of that stuff because you guys should have seen how much tape was in there.

00:40:07:11 - 00:40:14:15
Max Grover
Like you go to the bathroom and you have to walk like in a 12 inch thing between boxes that are stacked to the ceiling just to use.

00:40:14:15 - 00:40:15:14
Chris Prins
It full of inventory.

00:40:15:14 - 00:40:31:06
Max Grover
Just I mean, we were bursting at the seams, you know, tape in the hall and, you know, hockey pucks and tape down the stairs to the basement. I mean, it was it was insane. So it was it was cool. But I just wish we had photos of that kind of stuff. You know, the guys who were there building it.

00:40:31:09 - 00:41:02:21
Max Grover
Did you feel like did you feel like a real business at that point? Like, yeah, or not? Not so much really. I mean, I was I was good at sales, I was good at marketing. Like our accounting was just a absolute mess, you know, like I and never still even today, I mean, it feels a little bit more like a business now, but like back then it was just fun and we were making a little bit of money, but it was just about having fun and getting it literally getting to go to like I remember the first trade show that we went to.

00:41:02:21 - 00:41:24:14
Max Grover
It's an NHL equipment manager, NHL East Coast League, and down in Fort Lauderdale. First one we had ever been to and me, Dave Visser, who's been my right hand man since the beginning. And then this guy Andy rhyming. And we go down to the show and there's, you know, after the show there's a couple of buyers where all these equipment managers are out.

00:41:24:14 - 00:41:51:00
Max Grover
And so we're hanging out there and Dave Visser comes up to me and we'd had a few pops and Visser comes up and he goes, Dude, the New York Islanders equipment manager just bit my ear. And I was Scotty Boggs figuring those two were like all tech. And I don't know why, but Scotty leaned over and, like, nibbled Dave's ear for some because that world is is.

00:41:51:00 - 00:42:11:01
Max Grover
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure he was just joking around about it. Dave and Dave and Scott have been like good buddies ever. So and that was like the first NHL team. So you know that your first, like, college team is the Gophers. Yeah. Yeah. The pinnacle. Yeah. And Then once again, another pinnacle, which is the New York Rangers.

00:42:11:02 - 00:42:15:22
Max Grover
Yeah. Islanders. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Either way. I mean, that's Rangers.

00:42:16:00 - 00:42:20:05
Chris Prins
Yeah, Rangers are like one of the. We're with the Ranger team. Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:20:05 - 00:42:42:16
Max Grover
Forget Airball. So is that actually what that is, that issue that they like. No, no, no, no, no. I think Dave says that I did something to upset the New York Rangers equipment manager like 15 years ago. So you didn't. Yeah. You throw you off? Absolutely everything you did. He changed his year. Yeah. I have apologized to this guy like I.

00:42:42:17 - 00:42:43:20
Max Grover
He's a great guy, but.

00:42:43:23 - 00:42:50:20
Chris Prins
So, yeah, now. So it's great. How fast was that girl for the NHL team? Like you go from the Islanders and then was it pretty like, Yeah.

00:42:50:20 - 00:43:02:08
Max Grover
It's nice to get like one or two under your belt because now you can, you know, name dropping like they when you go to a Bowling green and they're like, Hey, I'm selling to the Islanders Minnesota like it's just.

00:43:02:09 - 00:43:03:09
Chris Prins
Have a foot in the door. Yeah.

00:43:03:09 - 00:43:24:17
Max Grover
And that was like the team business is, has always been really important to me because then that even rolls down into like local pro shops, like you call a vehicle a rink or a pro shop in Minnesota and say, well, the Gophers use it or the wild use it, you know, like it's I'm telling you like you're you're you're a 12 year old hockey player will love this stuff.

00:43:24:17 - 00:44:06:15
Max Grover
Right. So and always for me like outside watching like going back to look at any other tape company and the branding that you guys have behind it is a thousand times better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, memorable. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's all of that into Yeah. At orals and for sure. Yeah. But, and, and and the other thing we haven't even talked about is the service to like we, like, we, we, we care so deeply about our customers and I don't care if it's somebody who buys 12 bucks online or it's a rink or a pro shop or you're the New York Islanders, like we, we, we just love on these people big

00:44:06:15 - 00:44:31:06
Max Grover
time. Like we call every single person who orders off our website to say thanks. That's also I ordered something on offer. My wife ordered a birthday present last year, just like off the website. Not didn't say anything like we see here, I should say. Here, see my dumb face every weekend in the winter. But Gabby just goes on the website and just orders a birthday present for the nephew.

00:44:31:08 - 00:44:50:20
Max Grover
And then this guy shows up at the rink like. Like you should. Maybe you called me and you're always so mad at you. Yeah. Yes. I continued. And I'm like, No, I didn't. But I'm like you. I couldn't believe that he Because you have orders going out all over the world at this point. And you're and I look at all of them, though, it's kind of interesting.

00:44:50:22 - 00:44:51:11
Chris Prins
Let's see that's an.

00:44:51:11 - 00:45:07:05
Max Grover
Imagine that they out of this whole massive list and that you still pick out it was like a couple, maybe a t shirt and a hat. Oh, Max Grover right next to this dude from Sweden. Yeah, Finland. Really? Yeah. It's funny.

00:45:07:07 - 00:45:31:14
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00:45:31:14 - 00:45:37:03
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00:45:37:07 - 00:46:06:07
Max Grover
When was your first overseas order? I'm getting away after Yeah now there was a yeah that's a great question. There was a couple I think Sweden or Finland was the first. I couldn't even remember that worldwide now, boys. Yeah, we're worldwide so. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. So then you're six, seven still gaining pro shops. Get the Griffins guy.

00:46:06:09 - 00:46:19:12
Max Grover
Yeah. Get Minnesota Gophers 2008 ish. Yeah. That's probably about right. Yeah. Are you, are you thinking at this point like, hey this is what I'm. I think so. Are you still so small?

00:46:19:14 - 00:46:19:22
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00:46:19:23 - 00:46:34:12
Max Grover
Like going into it, knowing your mentality where you are already like, I'm going to make this huge, you know, I just like having, like you said, fun with it and like, this is a cool side job, but I'm not. I don't know if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life or where. Where was your head?

00:46:34:16 - 00:46:53:23
Max Grover
Yeah, I can remember. Yeah, I that's a great question. I yeah, I still and even today, like, I still don't really know where we're going. I just know that every day we go in there, I go in there and the people that work at always are phenomenal and we just say, Let's do the best we can with what we've been given today, you know?

00:46:53:23 - 00:47:19:07
Max Grover
So yeah, I have. I bet your 2010, 11, 12 is where. Okay, I think we got a little bit of a business on our hand where, like, it's making real money. Yeah, I can make enough money to support, you know, us. I didn't know. You know, I bet we had four or five, six, seven employees. And that's still on Michigan?

00:47:19:07 - 00:47:37:06
Max Grover
No, I think about 40th. 40th, 40th? Yeah. We rented some space from a hockey dad, Rick. Rick Hafner. Yep. You know, great guy. And he had he's was a very successful business guy, so he was a bit of a mentor to me right there because he was we were like coach kind of like, what you're doing here. We just kind of cold rent it.

00:47:37:06 - 00:47:59:14
Max Grover
Yeah. And so, yeah, it was, it was great. So but still, our catalog was not huge. We didn't have a ton of additional products. What at that point and I will do want to talk about the amount like if you go to the website, it's but like at that point, what are you selling like tape laces laces was the second fog spray I flux.

00:47:59:14 - 00:48:20:02
Max Grover
Yeah. Maybe some anti fog deodorizer were you wax. Yeah yeah wax was a big a big product. We were like the first guys to put it at ten. Yeah. I remember the Yeah. The first time you saw it and that's just like another one of those things where the branding. Yeah. Yeah. Once again you just start seeing it more and more like, Oh cool.

00:48:20:04 - 00:48:37:03
Max Grover
Yeah, it's different. Yeah. And I grew up using while there was golf wax and then there was sex wax. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But both of those things you'd like take the wrapper off. Yeah. And then you'd wax your stick and you'd chuck it in your neighborhood for it's everywhere in the bottom of your bag. Getting everywhere, right? Yeah.

00:48:37:03 - 00:48:48:18
Max Grover
See, I wasn't smart enough to be like, I should solve this problem. Yeah. Yeah, I was just, like, crap all over my back. Exactly. So. Yeah, Yeah, but that's cool.

00:48:48:19 - 00:48:49:23
Chris Prins
That's funny. That's awesome.

00:48:49:23 - 00:49:19:00
Max Grover
So, yeah, you're five, six employees at this point. You're 2011. 12 ish. Yeah. Getting momentum. How many? Who's your main? Not even just like, big team, right? Like, or like, who's your main source of income. Is it pro shops at this point. Yeah. Or is it. We always kind of direct. Yeah. The website really doesn't even make up that much of our business.

00:49:19:02 - 00:49:40:19
Max Grover
We and we've gotten better about this over the years where like to our retailers who that makes up the most the biggest part of our business is our pro shops and retailers. Right? And so we kind of have to keep price parity with those guys. So like I roll a taser and I think it's like I roll a white tape right now is for 79, right.

00:49:40:21 - 00:49:57:13
Max Grover
Or the hat that you guys are wearing right now, 30 to 99 on our website, We can't go on our website and start selling that hat for 1999. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we got these pro shops and those guys, I mean the pro shop. I mean, you know, these guys, Max, like these guys are the bread and butter of hockey.

00:49:57:13 - 00:50:26:16
Max Grover
These guys sharpening skates, sell them sticks and they're awesome. So, so the website really doesn't make up that much of the business, but a lot of shops won't carry the whole line of everything we have. So like if you walked into a store and they don't have our quarters. Yep. Right. That's so a lot of the apparel type things we're like, you know take Jolly Roger or you, they sell some little, little accessories but they're not even have a pro shop.

00:50:26:16 - 00:50:46:15
Max Grover
Yeah, exactly. So if you're Max Grover and you want to a hat or something like that, you hop online and get something like that, but not like the the very standard accessories that most of that business is still going right through retailers. So I bet you're pro shop or website. You know it's, I don't know, 5 to 10% tops of our business.

00:50:46:15 - 00:50:49:03
Max Grover
So it's really like really Yeah I know you would think it.

00:50:49:05 - 00:50:49:15
Chris Prins
Would be a lot.

00:50:49:15 - 00:51:32:14
Max Grover
More. Yeah. So yeah retail and then and the team is probably 20% of the business how I mean just like for me there's not, there's, there are some very solid pro shops in West Michigan and I'm sure around the country, but at the same time, like it's hard for those guys to stay open. Yeah. Because you're, you get a four month season and then you're busy and then the rest of the year, you sure like fall, you start picking up or there's, you know the guys that do skate all year that you But yeah I mean a lot of those have started to almost seemingly go away or is that just in my mind I,

00:51:32:18 - 00:51:55:15
Max Grover
I think that business shifting yeah I mean they've had their challenges as online crime has come on right You got your big mega online stores your pure hockey is hockey monkey hockey giant was there for a bit total hockey also which pure hockey now owned. So like Amazon, I mean you can buy anything in the world on Amazon.

00:51:55:15 - 00:52:21:13
Max Grover
So yeah, the business has definitely shifted. But I think the guys who are really good at sharpening skates. Yeah, setting skates, right? Like those are the guys who keep going in the store and they like you to work for you. The service going above and beyond like all those guys have that they're not going anywhere. Like Troy Tyrone out of Patterson, like, phenomenal Guy does him and Matt Martinelli, they do such a good job sharpening skates.

00:52:21:13 - 00:52:41:14
Max Grover
They take care that they're knowledgeable. Like if you want to. Yeah, you can go on pure hockey and buy a pair of skates. But if you want to get truly fitted for a pair of skates, like you got to go see Joe. You can go to you can go to back in the day to AMC Sports and like go look at their equipment selection compared to like something like cane, like even the Mighty Ducks.

00:52:41:14 - 00:53:00:02
Max Grover
The original Mighty Ducks would be embarrassed to see smoke. Yeah, they would be embarrassed to wear that stuff. I'd say, Yeah, the pro shop. But yeah, I mean, that's that's a real character. I mean, that person exists all over the country in these little stores, just like they love hockey. Yeah, Yeah. But I know way more about it than I do.

00:53:00:03 - 00:53:01:06
Max Grover
Yeah. Most people, it's.

00:53:01:06 - 00:53:09:09
Chris Prins
I love that service aspect that that's what makes you stand out. I think there's so many companies that can just do it. Yeah, just kind of forget the customer. Forget the customer service.

00:53:09:09 - 00:53:29:03
Max Grover
Yeah. Yeah. It's a yeah, that's some point. A commodity is a commodity, right? Like it's just tape. It's a tape. You buy it, I send it to you and that's it. But that's not. Yeah. Yeah. Is that is for you. I mean was that just something that it probably probably drive driven from how much you care about it.

00:53:29:03 - 00:53:56:04
Max Grover
Right. In general like growing bootstrapping it to get that for sale and how important that was. Yeah. But how do you transfer that from you and keep that excitement? Because I've been to your offices and everyone's excited to be there. They seem like they're having a blast. But then you guys are also very productive too. And like being a young guy like, Yeah, and a lot of your friends work and they're like, Well, how do you transfer them caring so much without it turning into like a frat house?

00:53:56:04 - 00:54:17:04
Max Grover
Like It's because it's still hockey guys. Yeah, it's a fine line all the time. Like, sometimes we do have way too much fun, you know? And so but, you know, you, you know, by and large, the people that we try to hire are competitive people who also want to do good and do well in anything that, you know, they're doing.

00:54:17:04 - 00:54:42:08
Max Grover
So sales guys and and stuff like that. So yeah, we haven't really yeah, I mean that's actually a really super fun and special place to work because of that. So and we even like Joe Brookhiser, you know, Joe like he he's just critical in that stuff and we do kind of a beauty the month thing where it seems so like dorky and and it is but you sit there and you like say, okay, who's the beauty?

00:54:42:08 - 00:55:00:12
Max Grover
The month this month? And we have a grill out every month and yet you say okay I think Sarah DAVIES the beauty of the month and here's why he'll read off everything so that is that any employee can submit somebody else. Yes. So bearded beauty is like slang term, like, Oh, what a beauty. Yeah, it's a yeah, yeah.

00:55:00:15 - 00:55:02:03
Chris Prins
Toothpaste like the employee of the month.

00:55:02:03 - 00:55:12:22
Max Grover
Employee of the month. But you know, there is it feels weird when you're doing it, but if you saw somebody do something good that month, like to hear your name get read is cool like it really.

00:55:12:22 - 00:55:13:21
Chris Prins
Is some recognition. Yeah.

00:55:13:22 - 00:55:40:00
Max Grover
Yeah, it really is. Because it's like, man, I saw this guy do an actual weather, you know, it's a warehouse guy packing up an order or, you know, a salesperson getting a new account or like, whatever, you know, like, so yeah, so that's one of the things. Yeah, culture was. Yeah, no, I mean, our culture, I mean you go in there and there's jerseys hanging on the wall and it's, it's, it's a, it would be like if for a hockey guy it's a, it's a dream to walk in.

00:55:40:00 - 00:56:03:17
Max Grover
There might be tie and you know, it's a it is a different language like the way people like beauty and all these Yeah. Slang words that, you know, you still get to hear, I don't care anymore. But it's like when you walk in there, it's like, Oh, wow, this is well, this is fun. Yeah. But then, like, it makes me go like, how do you guys also at the same time, like, get work done?

00:56:03:19 - 00:56:24:16
Max Grover
Yeah, Yeah. Because I just now I know that culture so well and it's like, yeah, it's so easy to get, like, just be like, yeah, like nonchalant about it. Not that they don't care, but nonchalant or not. Yeah, I don't know how to explain. Yeah, I don't know if I'm asking lawyers. There's give and take, man. But you know, like there's a lot of goals we put forth too.

00:56:24:17 - 00:56:43:00
Max Grover
And it's not like it's not like top down necessarily assigned. It's like, Hey, what do you what do you think you can do this year? This month, you know? Yeah. You guys have that here too. I mean, I look at I looked at your office a second ago, which you guys are outgrowing so fast, but it's like it's a I can already tell it's a cool culture.

00:56:43:00 - 00:57:01:07
Max Grover
Like, you know, like it really matters when you like the people that you work with. And I always say, like, you're going to spend I'm going to spend more time inside those four walls than I am going to with my, you know, kids and my wife. Yeah. Like, just guaranteed. And, you know, it's like if you hate coming to work every day, like what?

00:57:01:11 - 00:57:15:03
Max Grover
What are you doing? Yeah, like, that's that's where I'm going to spend most of my life. So the it's the people that you're working with, and obviously it helps that you're in the sport, you know, that you love helps a lot.

00:57:15:05 - 00:57:31:10
Chris Prins
So what's your day to day like? Are you quite a bit of like still involved with the sales, like the pro shops, the teams, everything kind of some of those major accounts? And are you more focused on like culture and like was it hard to step away a little bit from some of that sales perspective? It's like now I need to kind of focus on the bigger business.

00:57:31:10 - 00:57:48:05
Max Grover
Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. It's like I've turned, you know, like I've hung up my player skates, you know, and now I'm more of a coach, which I actually probably has to be very hard for you. I mean, it doesn't I mean, so before we got in, but you're, you're you want to outwork everyone. You want to drive it.

00:57:48:06 - 00:58:15:12
Max Grover
You want to be on the front? Yeah. Like, that's good. I just can't like, I got to give it to very capable people and we do we have so. Jason cool on the ups and finance side. What a good what a great family like they're just so nice. Yeah, great family. And then Dave Visser on the sales side runs our sales with with Brook Eisen as well And then Josh Banner well we call them cheese cheeses, cheese head of marketing.

00:58:15:12 - 00:58:39:08
Max Grover
So that's it. So whenever I hear Otis had missed Brooke. Yeah he called Buckeyes and sort of like Brookhiser says, I say, right name. But yeah, it's also like such a good person, good people. Yeah. Yep. So and you guys have that it? Yeah, for the most part. No, no. Except for Trevor.

00:58:39:10 - 00:58:41:18
Chris Prins
Never replace him.

00:58:41:20 - 00:58:46:04
Max Grover
But we're trying to get, we're trying to get Chris. He has no interest, he's crushing.

00:58:46:04 - 00:58:46:21
Chris Prins
Try the other Chris.

00:58:47:02 - 00:59:00:20
Max Grover
So Chris. Yeah I already did. He said no. So Chris is at a different company. He's at DA. Yeah, like, but you just find good people that you like to be around and Yeah.

00:59:00:20 - 00:59:02:19
Chris Prins
Yeah, life's too short not to do that.

00:59:03:00 - 00:59:05:13
Max Grover
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No quick.

00:59:05:13 - 00:59:06:23
Chris Prins
Man. Yeah.

00:59:07:01 - 00:59:30:16
Max Grover
And so you're at five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten employees over on 40th Street. At what point how many people did you have when you made the jump over to 36. Probably about that. I mean I think we moved into that building in 2013. But on the real estate side of your show, we were that was a 10,000 square foot building at the time.

00:59:30:17 - 00:59:49:10
Max Grover
And we went into 5000 square feet and it was like the crappy 5000 square feet where this office was probably like 600 square feet. And it was just a a dock door and overhead door and a little office, but it was already ten times better than it because you hear like walking sideways hallways.

00:59:49:10 - 00:59:50:09
Chris Prins
Space. Yeah, I.

00:59:50:09 - 01:00:17:06
Max Grover
Think it was at the time. It was awesome. So yeah. And then and then we ended up, oh man, I don't know, probably 2016, something in there. We moved to the front office of that building. So then we had all ten on 40th Street. So no, I'm 36, 36. So that's when we moved to 36 was 2013. We bought that was the first time we actually bought a place.

01:00:17:08 - 01:00:41:05
Max Grover
So yeah, so that was good. What's it like for you? And I know Adam liking real estate and stuff and having thought about doing it and then buying in 13. Yeah. And have a business that's cash flowing in 2013 to be able to buy and put that. Yeah, that was a good way to get in for me. Absolutely.

01:00:41:05 - 01:01:01:22
Max Grover
Yeah. Yeah. Because I know a lot of guys but like I, it's funny because people that well how you know how did you get through that hard time with your business and then like we were still so small that we, we had nowhere to go but up like we were still, I still think even 2013, we were still like, you know, we were still I would still consider it an upstart even though we were to like this thing was starting to get going.

01:01:01:22 - 01:01:26:03
Max Grover
But it took a while. The overhead still super low compared to a competitor. Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah. That's well-put. For sure. So, yeah, so we got in there 2013 and then you took half that building right? Right away. Sorry, Took half that building and then we moved in the other half, three, four years later. So. Yeah. Holy cow.

01:01:26:05 - 01:02:00:12
Max Grover
Yeah. And what, how at the, at the point where you took the whole building over, how many employees are you. I bet you we were, I don't know, 12, 15 employees, something like that. Yeah, maybe 15. So yeah, it was still small. Are you still doing the hand packing in the warehouse yourself. And. Yeah, we process all of our that's, I mean that we've looked at like three peoples to just do all of our order processing and on one hand it like sounds awesome to not even have to worry about that part of the business.

01:02:00:14 - 01:02:25:17
Max Grover
I bet you. Jason Cool would love to not worry about that. Yeah, but we do so many things just like special for B like so like if you will order something off our website, like if you just order a hat off our website, we're going to toss in a free sample, roll a tape, right? Like, yeah, all these little things that are like, we have this build a box on our website where you can pick 30 rolls, but you get to pick any color.

01:02:25:17 - 01:02:36:09
Max Grover
And we got a bunch of different types of tape right? So I just there's a lot of things that the three people, you know, we're throwing t shirts and orders. We're doing just all these things that the little the.

01:02:36:14 - 01:02:38:01
Chris Prins
Little D above and beyond the.

01:02:38:02 - 01:02:58:02
Max Grover
Sticker service oriented above and beyond. Yeah. So all that stuff that like, you know, I'm sure there's a way that a three people could do it, but I guess I'm not that they're going to do it with the same love and care that we or attention. What. Yeah what at this point 30 you're in the buildings 20,000 square.

01:02:58:02 - 01:03:19:06
Max Grover
Well it was ten and so then we did an expanded 10,000 square foot expansion. Okay. 17 2017 and as far as business wise, like what I because everyone want to know like who at this point in the stage are you guys servicing? Not today, but yeah. Then like service wise. Yeah. Who are some of the teams that you're working with?

01:03:19:06 - 01:03:45:03
Max Grover
We were pretty strong in the NCAA. A you know, and then all the NCAA D1. D3 Yeah, everyone listen, there's no such thing as D2. I don't know why. Why is there no NCAA D2 hockey? Probably something to do with the clearinghouse as far as something like that. Yeah. If they did D2 they wouldn't have enough kids is who knows.

01:03:45:05 - 01:04:04:21
Max Grover
Yeah. I don't know why that is. Yeah. It's we're so, yes we're doing those teams a lot of juniors and then shells was good because a dog because of Brad Thompson he he opened up a lot of doors there so and then we probably had a handful NHL teams, maybe five or six NHL teams that were given us a shot.

01:04:04:21 - 01:04:26:19
Max Grover
How how are you guys selling? I know I would assume your main point of contact usually is the equipment manager. Yeah, but I mean, how often is the equipment manager calling you guys at this point and being like, Hey, the boys are asking for for your tape? Or is that you guys selling to top down on the sale process or is it coming?

01:04:26:19 - 01:04:46:17
Max Grover
Are you starting to see it? Like guys being like, Hey, what don't we have? How is Yeah, some of both because you get and that's still the case today with some of these call it hold out teams where this equipment guy's been around forever right He's 60 years old plus and he's been buying from you know, one of our competitors for a ton of years.

01:04:46:19 - 01:05:09:04
Max Grover
And he's just loyal. And I can't blame them. Like, that's that's just it's so yeah, like, it's so like, so you think of, like, college or pro sports and like, players change, coaches change if everyone changes except for the equipment. Man Just been there for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because when you find that guy that loves it, like he stays and he's just that personality type person, I don't know what it is.

01:05:09:05 - 01:05:21:10
Max Grover
Yeah. Yeah. So, and you guys, I'm thinking under realtor side of things too. You probably have that too, where it's like guys who put their time in and grow their business for many years, it's like, Yeah, yeah.

01:05:21:12 - 01:05:30:04
Chris Prins
Or you have some, you have some landlords or sellers who would just have this broker that I'm using this guy for the last 30 years. Yeah, I'm not changing my perspective.

01:05:30:06 - 01:05:47:15
Max Grover
Yeah. Oh, you're actually happy. Like, I'm happy to lose that because it's like 20 years from now. I hope that I have the guy that's like, Yeah, hey, I haven't talked to Max in six months. Yeah, but he's still out there hustling. He's still doing the thing, and I'm going to. That's my guy. Yeah. So you want those?

01:05:47:15 - 01:05:47:22
Max Grover
Yup.

01:05:47:22 - 01:05:50:11
Chris Prins
You if you lose because that.

01:05:50:13 - 01:06:09:12
Max Grover
And it's not because you didn't try or didn't pick up the phone or didn't put in the work. Yeah. Like that's an okay. Well it's hard to lose but it's okay. Yeah. It's at least Yeah, it's palatable. Yeah it is palatable. So you're got HL teams, NHL teams, you've got.

01:06:09:16 - 01:06:10:09
Chris Prins
NCAA.

01:06:10:09 - 01:06:41:12
Max Grover
NCAA. Yep. And but at the end of the day, I'm like and even you look at like, how many teams are there out there? Like, what's the volume? How much can you really be doing, Where else can we push? Yeah, and I didn't it was hard because I and even today, I don't know like what percent of market share we have like there's such a small niche niche industry and then like how do you know, you know, okay, what percentage of NHL do you have?

01:06:41:14 - 01:07:01:14
Max Grover
So we'll sell something to like 29 NHL teams, but you don't know if like they probably have a couple of different tapes in the room. So and so. Yeah. And there's certain got like I would have been using whatever the trainer gave. Yeah. But there are guys even in college that could be like I only use. Yeah. And they're going to have that.

01:07:01:14 - 01:07:21:02
Max Grover
Yeah. And that's, Yeah, yeah. I grew up playing since I was ten so I only use this. Yeah. Like, like what's it McDavid Sox. Yeah Have you seen those. I think it's a Sox grossest thing ever. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's been wearing them since like Pee wee years. I think it's his socks. I so there's some crazy.

01:07:21:06 - 01:07:40:05
Max Grover
Maybe it was his jock even there was some article of some remnants that he still wears that you're like oh my. Yeah. As I said my hockey pants are starting to just fall apart. I mean, there's just whole mean pads here for and you're not going to get any new ones. Oh, not really. I just breaking and new stuff sucks.

01:07:40:05 - 01:08:03:16
Max Grover
You know. Have you guys thought about and I was wondering this the other day. I was like, I wonder, have you guys thought about getting new equipment or sticks or We still have different type of growth. It is. It is. And the things that we do. Yeah. I mean, I think when you get to that level, when you make that decision you're your world, my world would change a lot.

01:08:03:22 - 01:08:31:01
Max Grover
We'd be needing to have engineer employees and and product engineers. We'd have a big presence in China, which that's a big thing for. Who we are now is we're, we're like a made in matters company right now. We're most of our core accessories are made in either the US or Canada. So and then we still we still continue to grow pretty strong every year.

01:08:31:03 - 01:09:03:03
Max Grover
You know, the moment we make that decision to move into hard goods, which we may helmets and sticks and gloves and all that stuff, the amount of capital required is going to be significant. Yeah, inventory. It's going to it's going to look different and I am conservative enough to to move slow. Yep. You know I and and I get because you don't want to do it you don't want to have acid either and put out a crappy product just to name on it.

01:09:03:03 - 01:09:23:21
Max Grover
Exactly. So yeah yeah. So and it's good. And then on the what we haven't talked about yet either is the athletic tape side of things. Yes. Which we probably got into that about five or six years ago where we started selling athletic trainers tape and we, you know, went to a tape manufacturer and said, hey, how do we build a better quality athletic tape?

01:09:24:00 - 01:09:39:10
Max Grover
And that's that's growing like ridicule, honestly, fast compared to hockey. Right. And and what it's like. So it's like one of those things or is I don't know when you thought of this or but it's like, oh dog because it's like, yeah.

01:09:39:12 - 01:09:41:01
Chris Prins
Why are you doing it while.

01:09:41:01 - 01:09:58:01
Max Grover
You're doing it? But then like, okay, you tape your hockey stick is good for like when you go to the and get taped up. Yeah. And you're doing it for training, you're doing it for practice, you're doing it for and it's not a little. Yeah, sorry. No, that was me. That was me. Yeah, but It's not a little amount of tape.

01:09:58:01 - 01:10:18:03
Max Grover
It's like, Oh yeah. Or like, do you do the ice bag wrap like the plastic or plastic wrap. Yeah. Like me shoulders, elbows, like wherever you can. And it's like, yeah, it's not a little amount, it's a lot. And you're talking about it from just a hockey sense. Yeah. And now that puts you. I didn't even think of that.

01:10:18:03 - 01:10:33:03
Max Grover
Every other sport. I mean, you know, we got an order from Parsons High School in Kansas or something like that last week, and I was like, Wait, wait, where is a hockey team? They don't all have quality football. Yeah, although. And that's all.

01:10:33:04 - 01:10:34:20
Chris Prins
For the basketball.

01:10:34:21 - 01:11:04:18
Max Grover
Yeah. Are you with that? And that branding is I mean, does how we do. What's that cross. That cross is kind of how is athletic. So yeah so and we like for a while we're like man are all these athletic trainers going to want to buy from a a hockey company because you know they see our our background and like after a while, like I was a little nervous about it, but now we've just kind of fully embraced it like our we, we want them to kind of know our story.

01:11:04:23 - 01:11:29:12
Max Grover
Hey, we started in hockey. We made the best ever hockey tape and we take phenomenal care of all these hockey teams. Yeah, we want to do the same for you. And it's it's an industry that I don't think has seen service like we can provide ever. So now you go from calling and just the the equipment managers and how so now the other position is the trainer I'm assuming he's making an own decision on.

01:11:29:12 - 01:12:00:08
Max Grover
Yes he gets a budget from the school for only God knows how much tape they got through. Yeah. Especially in football, like the anchor raps and stuff. Like crazy. Yeah. So have genius. So, I mean, so simple, but it is is so like, it's and funny. When did you think of that? Like, do had it been on your mind for a while or was it like, Yeah, it had been it was a, an area that we knew we could get into like, yeah, you're watching, you're like, how do we and then you get into it.

01:12:00:08 - 01:12:16:11
Max Grover
How do we do it right? Like, how do we build this thing and do it right? I mean, when we are the first tape that we came out with, like the first year or two was brutal. Like we thought we had a good recipe and it was the amount of returns you're getting feedback from the Oh, we were getting full pallet sent back and really we were selling.

01:12:16:11 - 01:12:39:15
Max Grover
We were good enough at selling. Yeah, but then all of a sudden it was like, Hey, we got that. You're probably pumped because it's like now we have like somebody that cares a service. The economy is already talking to your guys, the sales guys that care, and they all have relationships with. Like I forget who sells to to school at Bowling Green but like they know more about and I played whiskey.

01:12:39:17 - 01:13:01:14
Max Grover
They know more about school than I do. Like they love it. He is a he's the best. We'll always put a bottle of bourbon. Yeah, that guy is the best. Because if you sweep, he does. And he lost a lot of weight. Did he? He? I don't know if he's kept it off. We'll have to see this season.

01:13:01:14 - 01:13:28:16
Max Grover
But like he does, they pull the cooler out for the guys and then he gets up and he does like the diamond Dallas paid diamond cutter. Oh, yeah, he's a but but you have to have like a you need personality to do that job too, because it's nights, weekends, travel, you're stuck on a bus with everyone and you're dealing with washing jerseys and making sure skates are sharpened, tightened and blah, blah, blah.

01:13:28:16 - 01:13:39:00
Max Grover
Yeah. So it's a different personality. So is. Yeah. You have some great stories. Yeah. Oh, they do like I that's what I was telling you. Like I want to do a podcast with.

01:13:39:06 - 01:13:40:10
Chris Prins
A quip or just them.

01:13:40:12 - 01:13:46:07
Max Grover
Oh my gosh. Like they have the best stories. They party, they work hard, they do this.

01:13:46:09 - 01:13:49:00
Chris Prins
You do that. I feel like you do that job for the love of the game, putting.

01:13:49:00 - 01:14:20:16
Max Grover
100% and they know and they get to see like the coaches see the coaches. A lot of them played and stuff, but they only get a certain Yeah. Like you're only getting the best foot for from the players. Right. We're like the equipment manager sees it and knows everything like he's one of the guys. Yeah so that that would be people would love that if everybody said yeah I think and and we talked about that too like I can't remember who you're like you had and so on I think it was.

01:14:20:16 - 01:14:42:01
Max Grover
Francis Yeah, it was a mutual definitely. I, I think if you just had the equipment, even with how creative your guys are, like they would find their own path. Even with. Yeah, even if it wasn't like, directed of, like, needs to be, we should do that, right? People would do something right And you kind of have like that.

01:14:42:03 - 01:15:00:07
Max Grover
It's not as it's I'm sure it's not as out of control as barstool, but kind of that culture where it's like it's a fun way to have some fun with it. People want to work. Yeah. How is like they want to work at Barstool? Yeah, it's kind of yeah, yeah, that's cool. It's fun that it is. It's so.

01:15:00:07 - 01:15:04:14
Chris Prins
Cool. Have you guys gotten it into the NCAA and like, the sponsorships?

01:15:04:15 - 01:15:18:07
Max Grover
Oh, yeah, the whole. Yeah, it was a little bit And then I'll do I'll. Yes, we're still waiting for mine. The guy that plays once he gets teed. Not exactly. Yeah.

01:15:18:08 - 01:15:20:06
Chris Prins
Well, so what does that look like?

01:15:20:08 - 01:15:43:10
Max Grover
We do have a lot of athletes and agents reach out to us. We it takes so like even I mean, you hear some of these crazy numbers at some of these college. Oh, yeah, sure. Getting right And on the hockey side that's tempered down big time Like I think there were some pretty big names that came through Michigan the last few years.

01:15:43:15 - 01:16:07:18
Max Grover
They have like ten. It was like seven first round picks on that one team. So we were talking to those guys and even not just them, like, you know, a typical deal might look like, Hey, we'll do a photo shoot and some posts for, I don't know, a thousand bucks or something like that. Maybe, maybe, maybe even more than maybe 5000.

01:16:07:18 - 01:16:46:21
Max Grover
But it's like we start doing the numbers on this stuff and like, we don't we just don't make that much on a roll it tape. And they're not and they're not driving the decision and for the athletic trainer or for the equipment manager on large bolt the last Yeah. The one get they'll get 1012 year old center following him on social or seeing tape of the they'll but their priority buying anyways potentially yeah exactly so yeah or even like like in this is just we can't like our our our idea of marketing it has to just be a little different because we can't like in good faith by a dashboard at at Van Andel for

01:16:46:21 - 01:17:06:22
Max Grover
I don't know what they cost but five grand and expect that like we're going to be able to make $5,000 because you have to sell so many rolls of tape because you're making sense, literally cents on rolls of tape, you know. So, yeah, it's not like, you know, there's an ad there for a car dealership and they sell one or two cars because of that.

01:17:06:23 - 01:17:08:13
Max Grover
And it's like it just works.

01:17:08:13 - 01:17:09:09
Chris Prins
It pays for itself.

01:17:09:09 - 01:17:29:00
Max Grover
So there's not enough hockey players that come through. Van Andel you know, in a year for us to justify taking out an ad there. So Same thing with that, Neil, is just like we can't So and you don't you're not going to see like I wouldn't think that you would see a hockey accessory company advertising big money with like nil deals.

01:17:29:00 - 01:18:06:22
Max Grover
Right? Sure. So you see it with, you know, BioWare and team, but they're selling thousand skates and $300 sticks like that. You know, they're making some money on that. Whereas basically what I'm telling you is I'm poor and but so like where out of care and maybe you don't want to talk about, well, where do you pour advertising dollars into or is it more so like, like maybe we don't make this much on the apparel, but when you and I get asked by Trevor today, like, he's like, so like, do people like, do you see like hats and how he stuff it and I'm like, yeah, yeah.

01:18:06:22 - 01:18:26:02
Max Grover
Need all over anywhere in the country. Yeah. You'll go to the ice rink and I'm like, it's not like it's every kid has always had on, but somebody on the team has. Howie Something in, in warm ups before the game. They have the hat on or a shirt or a hoodie. Yep. Like there's a couple of kids on the team all around the country that have your brand on it.

01:18:26:02 - 01:18:45:05
Max Grover
Yeah, that's. Yeah. So they yeah, the apparel like we view as our that's like a weird story in and of itself because when we started like early on we're like, hey, free t shirt and everywhere. Then it was like, I think we could probably sell these things. So it was like $10 shirt on our website. We'll literally like lose money on these things, but we just want to get it out there.

01:18:45:07 - 01:19:11:10
Max Grover
Then we're like, Hey, let's see what happens when we move the price up to 20 bucks. And man, it almost seemed like once you started to make it more expensive like people wanted it, even it became a bit more almost like it. Christie is like I actually had to yeah. And we we continue to make the quality this stuff better as we increase the price like it really is good stuff but like yeah, it's kind of like when I go buy golf balls it's like, Oh yeah, for sure.

01:19:11:10 - 01:19:27:16
Max Grover
Buying the pro V ones because they're the best but I think the most like you kind of do that is like, okay, what's the most expensive? I do the opposite with the golf balls. I go to the shop and I'm like, What's the cheapest? And if you have any color, let's see.

01:19:27:18 - 01:19:29:06
Chris Prins
You.

01:19:29:08 - 01:19:47:22
Max Grover
Know, they're gone. It's just it's a donation to the course. Yeah, that's funny. But so you know what I mean, though? Like, there's something I don't know. Did You ever buy skates and, like, almost all right or anything you shop on and almost buy things based on, Hey, I want to buy get the best. So I would think that whatever is the most expensive is the best.

01:19:48:00 - 01:19:55:16
Max Grover
Oh, yeah, you know what? Yes. It just has to be. Because why would it be more. Yeah. Like, why? Well, why would everyone else be buying this if it wasn't the best, Right?

01:19:55:18 - 01:20:00:21
Chris Prins
Yeah. I just think that's what Lululemon so good. Yeah, I look at it like. I mean.

01:20:00:23 - 01:20:09:12
Max Grover
Is there stuff like, is there stuff? I'm kind of a believer. Like, I think the stuff is good, but I'm not. Is there something else that is way cheaper that's the same problem.

01:20:09:12 - 01:20:10:16
Chris Prins
Almost does the same job.

01:20:10:16 - 01:20:41:23
Max Grover
Yeah, but then like for me, like, then I have to go out and I have to buy like three read reviews and buy like three or four different kinds and be like, yeah, those ones in last season's that were like when it, when it's that you're like, I know it's the best and everyone's it's like on this easy but almost yeah Lulu is yeah they've been grown they're Canadian company Yeah they are yeah out of Vancouver and I think they're publicly traded now and Yeah they've done a great job.

01:20:42:01 - 01:21:12:06
Max Grover
Yeah. That would be like that's kind of the weird giant dream for us is as we've so, so what's kind of going on now is, is what we call team apparel where yeah, instead of get, instead of going after the like sticks and skates and helmet to market how do we like we've I think we're about a year into kind of having what I guess it's like blank so like we have like even the Nike shirt that you have and actually I have on.

01:21:12:06 - 01:21:41:17
Max Grover
Right. We're going to have like how we use Polos where the things like and we already do wear that. It's, it's, it's a blank polo but it's got the houses on it and the buttons have little houses. Sure, it's cool and the tags and it's like it's really nice quality stuff where we're leaving it open so that like Fox Motors or Bowling Green Hockey or whoever they can put the Falcons on, they brand it so or like Max, I mean, I'm sure you remember and it happens in every sport.

01:21:41:17 - 01:21:59:07
Max Grover
I'm sure you remember going into a hockey rink and I mean you're Caesar's team, right? Every kid's decked out in the warm ups. In the winter. They got a Caesar's hat, they got the hot beanies, the bags, the gloves. Yeah, well, probably not the gloves, but like, they got all that soft chompers. I mean, they got to the scarf, they got to wear sweatshirts.

01:21:59:08 - 01:22:27:06
Max Grover
Yeah, exactly. Just all that stuff. And usually it's a Bowers or a Kim and Warriors gotten into that a bit and some other companies and I think again, I don't like I'm not going to say we have anywhere near the brand cachet or value of our team, but like, I don't know, I think with our service and our story and the quality of the stuff we do, like I think there's enough people would say, Yeah, we would, we would, we would deck our team out in, in Howie's right and co-brand with houses.

01:22:27:07 - 01:22:46:14
Max Grover
So that's, I think that'd be cool. And then like how do we even extrapolate that as we get into athletic training, sports medicine, like we're selling to all these high schools all over the place, like does us, does a day come when you got the Under Armor logo, you got the Nike swoosh like like I'm nowhere near that.

01:22:46:17 - 01:23:08:18
Max Grover
Sure. And my team is nowhere near that cool. But if that how is age became like almost become synonymous with sports. Yeah yeah. You know under armor sells a lot of little shirts every year, you know, like. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Be cool. So that's that's the next that's an okay within hockey. That's the next stop on that.

01:23:08:18 - 01:23:29:12
Max Grover
Yeah. But starting that right. Yeah. I mean there's no reason that you can't. Yeah. Eventually is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. And it doesn't I like I always have the mindset be like you want to be there tomorrow. Yeah. But it's like I'm okay with doing like you. Yes, it sucks, but it's usually the long way for most people.

01:23:29:17 - 01:23:59:13
Max Grover
Tomorrow can take a long time. Yeah. Yes, it Can you know. So have you with that in the vision and like, I mean I got to imagine too. And if you don't want to talk about this, fine. But like PE companies they started. Yeah. I never heard any other companies start to approach you. Yeah. Or Yeah we've we get, we get the emails frequently in the letters and certified mail ones that come in the FedEx ones and you open them up and it's like it's cool, it's flattering but it's like, I really do love what I do.

01:23:59:13 - 01:24:24:04
Max Grover
I love the people. You're young, like, Boy, Yeah, I'm almost 40. But are you? Yeah, I just turned 35 and I was like, Man, that's like, Yeah. And then the kid, Reese's teacher, like, she's like, I don't know how old she is, but I'm like, 23, you know? Like, yes. So, like, you're like, you realize like, how like, you start.

01:24:24:04 - 01:24:42:13
Max Grover
Yeah. He's realizing that you're the old man. You're like, Oh my, it's crazy, dude. And I was like, I look at a 25 year old or I like, I got, I got a lot of young employees and it's like, I feel like I'm the same age as you ish, like in my mind. But I know in actuality they don't look at me the same way, you know?

01:24:42:15 - 01:25:00:02
Max Grover
Yeah, because I know when I was 23. Yeah. There's no way I looked at a 40 year old. Yeah. Even like a cool 40 year. Like, they don't look at me the same way. I think. I think there is one time last year when I was sitting in the parking lot on my phone and I like maybe the windows down.

01:25:00:02 - 01:25:15:07
Max Grover
It's getting out and you're like, Nice band. Did man too Funny. I like these windows are intended enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, Yep, I'm old.

01:25:15:09 - 01:25:15:23
Chris Prins
It hit.

01:25:16:00 - 01:25:41:03
Max Grover
Man. So your guy, you're obviously growing still. Yep And the the athletic brand you're pushing into that the apparel. You're pushing. Yeah. Still the hockey tape. Yeah. And then now growing into a new building too. And I don't know if you want to talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can talk about that. Yeah. So we're in 20,000 square feet right now and.

01:25:41:05 - 01:25:55:12
Max Grover
Yeah, so that building we're building at, I think the technical address is 6658 East Paris. Yeah. So it's just north of 60th Street. Yep. On East Paris. So it's a cool site. It was we had to go through Eagle.

01:25:55:17 - 01:25:57:06
Chris Prins
How fun. Oh, man.

01:25:57:07 - 01:26:18:07
Max Grover
I don't know anything about it. I'm so. I'm sure that paperwork is like that. Back on it. Yeah. Just delineating wetlands. Yeah. And you're in broken ground. Yeah, I think I saw a foundation. Yeah, Foundation. A lot of site right now. There's a lot of site work there but foundation in port and. Yeah. When, when are you guys supposed to be in there.

01:26:18:08 - 01:26:30:08
Max Grover
Yeah. So the steel building arrived today and then we're hoping spring, May, March, April. Yeah. So yeah, we're, they're going to get after it. You're pretty.

01:26:30:08 - 01:26:31:22
Chris Prins
Quick. You said 20,000.

01:26:32:00 - 01:26:38:02
Max Grover
Nobody. 20. Right now we're moving into 54. Wow. And are you taking your 60 for.

01:26:38:05 - 01:26:38:21
Chris Prins
Yeah.

01:26:38:23 - 01:26:55:12
Max Grover
Yeah, we are. Yep. So. And some taller ceilings so yeah it'll be a big stuff. So you're going gonna take another rack, right? Yeah. We're going to get a little higher there and yeah, it's more efficient. I mean we in our so we, we use in on time as they store a lot of stuff for us right now off site.

01:26:55:17 - 01:27:30:08
Max Grover
I don't know how many square feet of their building we're using up but a lot of pallet positions so we're we're and we are we have a location in Burlington Ontario as well. Okay It makes sense. So it turns out they like hockey sense. Yeah. So yeah so but yeah this, this building will be fine. We've never we've always I mean like right now, like we have fat heads and jerseys all over the wall and now it's like, you know, and we have a maroon carpet and it's just, we've gone with whatever was available and just used furniture like.

01:27:30:10 - 01:27:46:15
Max Grover
And so now, I mean this, you know, because we do, we get, we get well during the winter, like Grand Rapids is turning into a bit of a lake tournament spark a hyper Detroit and Chicago. And it's like we'll have full teams come in of 12 year old hockey players who want to get a tour. And it's really fun.

01:27:46:15 - 01:28:01:00
Max Grover
But like you've been in NORRIS But we're just not set up for that. I mean, it is crazy. And not that we're going to build this new building for that, but I remember vividly as a as a young kid being like, oh, my gosh, if I could get like a power company tour, Oh.

01:28:01:00 - 01:28:01:19
Chris Prins
It was so cool.

01:28:01:20 - 01:28:23:17
Max Grover
I would be so cool. So how do we not go overboard? But like, have a have ever have a headquarters, you know, is something to be that. People are like, wow. Yeah, yeah. So movil, you know, movil ice cream. Yeah. They sent us an email a couple of weeks ago and they want to a Howie's hockey strawberry kiwi ice cream flavor.

01:28:23:17 - 01:28:27:00
Max Grover
So I don't know if it's actually going to happen. You need to do it.

01:28:27:00 - 01:28:29:01
Chris Prins
How sweet would that take them up on that?

01:28:29:01 - 01:28:36:14
Max Grover
I know. Maybe like the point where like we made it with movie. Yeah. And we'll keep little, little, you know.

01:28:36:14 - 01:28:37:23
Chris Prins
We'll just.

01:28:38:01 - 01:28:53:03
Max Grover
Give them out to hockey kids when they go and oh, that's a goal. So maybe it'd be super fun. So yeah. Are you starting to see that more and more to of other companies reach out to do the because it seems like that's happening more and more terrible everywhere of like yeah.

01:28:53:08 - 01:28:54:17
Chris Prins
The whole cross marketing.

01:28:54:19 - 01:29:16:10
Max Grover
For everyone. Yeah yeah. Are you seeing more of that or every question is there anybody that just had to get like that? You're like, Oh, that would be a fun collab. Yeah. Yeah. When Bauer did that with Lulu, I was I was thinking how cool that would be, but I don't know. Not, not, not, not that I know, but I haven't really.

01:29:16:16 - 01:29:39:19
Max Grover
Yeah, I haven't. Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know what that ends up doing for, for Bauer. I don't know how beneficial that is for them or Lulu. It seems like Bauer would be a bigger winner in that deal than 100%. Yeah, so. But no. And then I have to bring this up just because it just happened today.

01:29:39:19 - 01:30:03:05
Max Grover
But I'm doing this work. I think I've talked on it too much on the podcast, but I had a different trainer today and her name's Liz and she, she was like, Oh, like when I've heard like Max and Hockey, I thought that it was going to be you selling a max happening too. And then it was just me, Oh.

01:30:03:07 - 01:30:05:14
Chris Prins
What a letdown. Yeah.

01:30:05:15 - 01:30:28:16
Max Grover
But then she told a cool story where she was like she said, and I don't know the full details, but basically she came to work for you just in the warehouse. Oh, yeah. And she's like, They were awesome to work with, like, work for. And they really took care of me and they didn't need to. Yeah. And I was like, So I just, I remember I just want to say that because.

01:30:28:17 - 01:30:44:23
Max Grover
Yes, I don't even know if you know who that I think I do. Yeah, I know exactly. Yeah. Yeah. She was awesome. Yeah. It was cool to me though, like, because she was like, in her mind, she's like, I'm just, you know, putting stuff in the warehouse, putting it in the boxes, like, Yeah, what do I matter back here?

01:30:45:01 - 01:31:06:23
Max Grover
Yeah, Whatever you did for her. And I don't even know. Yeah, she just felt like you went above and beyond when you didn't to to help her out. And I was like, That's kind of part of the culture in my mind. That it is. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. Yeah. And that's I felt that in the last two years, more than more than ever is because we've kind of grown we've grown a lot in the last two years.

01:31:06:23 - 01:31:37:16
Max Grover
And so why is it I think I think during COVID we were pretty aggressive about not being a victim of the circumstance. And so like, even though like hockey was like literally the first thing to get whacked, right? Oh, it overcame it. But I'm like, look, this, this will pass. And so we're not going to sit around even though we're going to it's not going to show in the sales during COVID year and aggressively whacked in the states, but even a hundred times more in Canada.

01:31:37:19 - 01:31:50:19
Max Grover
Oh, yeah, right. I mean, it was a big market. Yeah. Yeah. It was super strict. So we're not going to sit around even though we're not going to like, realize these sales now, we're not going to sit around and not sell. We're going to call these hockey stores. They're going to think you're crazy and they're bored. Yeah, they're bored for this point.

01:31:50:21 - 01:32:12:10
Max Grover
Listen. Yeah, they're now saying so. I don't know. I mean, some of them were like, Why are you calling? But like, it. So it was it was almost like we captured a lot of sales from those years, like. And so yeah I'm not that that's it entirely. We've gotten into a bunch of new SKUs and we've just grown athletic tape has really started to take off.

01:32:12:11 - 01:32:37:19
Max Grover
There are some really big chains in Canada. International business has grown a ton. So yeah, the past two years have been crazy. So all that to say is that culture, like there are warehouse folks out there who packing orders, who I don't necessarily know, and I know exactly who Liz is because she was there at a time where we were so much smaller and tight knit.

01:32:37:19 - 01:32:57:13
Max Grover
So I think that's like and Brooke isn't phenomenal at this. Like, I want I still how do we keep this really awesome special culture as we continue to grow? Because I want like, I don't want this break room to be a ghost, you know? Yeah, yeah. Showroom. And I want people to be excited to share common show off.

01:32:57:13 - 01:33:21:23
Max Grover
Yeah. And they are. I think that is what's going on. I think it is. How are you keeping that as it scales. Are you keeping that. Are you doing I mean is it training or is it just how you're treating everybody? Is it what it probably both of those some intentional? I mean, we do a Tuesday morning skate with all the employees, which you should come to Max now that you're getting in shape.

01:33:22:04 - 01:33:40:04
Max Grover
I've been on like I've been on this email list for, I don't know, I think Brookhiser puts a skate on. Yeah. And like, I've been on this list with my Gmail for like three years and I haven't got to skate. And I'm like, I just always kind of laugh and I look at I don't look at it. I just see who's easy to delete every time.

01:33:40:07 - 01:33:56:13
Max Grover
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so that kind of stuff. I mean, I like I will, will do a lot of Griffin's games as a team. Not everyone's going to come like we're just too big now. But like if we can get 20 people to come to a Griffin's game and go sit in the nosebleeds and just be together, that's awesome.

01:33:56:13 - 01:34:11:00
Chris Prins
I feel your grill out and your whole beauty. Yeah, that's. That's huge. To get people together. Yeah. Get them in a room. So I think you can get so honed in on. Okay, here's my job for the day. Yeah. And lose focus. I'm okay. We're all there. We're all team 100%. Keeping the ethos there is so important.

01:34:11:00 - 01:34:46:14
Max Grover
Yeah, it is. It is. And so. Yeah, so what per what percentage of people that are working for you are people that you knew beforehand versus and not exact percentage, but like, is it still pretty local or. Yeah, it is. It is. Most people who work at Howie's know somebody who was there is there you know, so but it is getting like you know we're now like particularly you know in the warehouse and order fulfillment like you know go big people we've never met And so how do we bring him into this family?

01:34:46:16 - 01:35:07:16
Max Grover
You know, is it is it mostly also attracting hockey people even for the warehouse portion or is it. Yeah, we live all over the place as far as. Yeah, it can be. I mean, yes, you know, but a lot of times, a lot of times it does end up being people who maybe not don't play hockey, you know, but like, do love the game or love sports.

01:35:07:16 - 01:35:32:07
Max Grover
Yeah, it is like we packed, you know, we got an order from the Denver Broncos the other day for athletic tape, which is cool And it was like we have a kid there who, you know, I play hockey with this guy, but it's like here when you get to go he and he's diehard Denver fan Yeah so like cool yeah just silly side yeah yeah said that's I think that's what he says.

01:35:32:09 - 01:35:33:15
Chris Prins
Yeah this.

01:35:33:17 - 01:35:55:09
Max Grover
Is exactly so yeah I just yeah that's cool It's a bunch of people who love love sports Yeah. Who like I don't know, I would I was never going to play pro hockey, so I may as well get work in a industry that is like how many jobs like that are there in West Michigan where you get you got the caps, you got Griffin's the gold to an extent.

01:35:55:11 - 01:36:28:03
Max Grover
Yeah. Volleyball new volleyball team and yeah, I don't know how how often are like your guys actually with the players are getting feedback from them on product and that type of thing or not as they like 90% is the athletic trainer or the. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But like Dave Visser who now runs sales and he, you know, he's not the only guy, but he holds most of the accounts with the NHL.

01:36:28:05 - 01:36:43:19
Max Grover
Yeah, you guys can probably especially because the equipment still gets tickets to games and stuff. I mean, you could probably do pretty much any game in town or in the country that you want it to for the most part. Yeah. But like Dave got a text message from Jack Eichel the other day. Come on. Yeah, it was like, the coolest thing ever.

01:36:43:19 - 01:37:04:13
Max Grover
So Chris Davidson Adams is the head equipment guy for Vegas, and he's from Grand Rapids originally, so he just won the cup. He's bringing it back. He's cancer, right? Yeah, I guess Ring gets the day with the cup. Gets the day with the cup. He's bringing it back here. And what's his name? Chris Davidson. Adams Okay, so he used to work for the Griffins for dog and dog.

01:37:04:15 - 01:37:27:09
Max Grover
Dog. Brad Thompson. That guy has been so good to so many people like. He is. I bet you there's like five or six guys who started just as Stick boys and then assistant equipment managers, and he sends them off to like go on to get dogs sign off. You're going, isn't that funny? And now they like have gone on to like amazing places, right?

01:37:27:09 - 01:37:53:02
Max Grover
So that's awesome. So anyways, Eichel was running a hockey camp. Yeah, he was like he text Chris and was like, Hey Chris, I need some tape for camp. And he's like, Oh, well, text Tex Visser. He's the Howie Hill senior, get the kids hooked up. And right. So it's like now Visa's buddies with Jack Jack Eichel. I don't know if a top ten player in the NHL right now just won the Cup.

01:37:53:02 - 01:38:14:00
Max Grover
Just won the Cup. And like massive. He was on top of being a top ten player, I mean and news wise, like he was probably the number one player talked about over the last two years because he had this major neck injury and got in a fight with the Sabers about how they were going to treat it and surgery and who the surgeon was going to be and how they would fix it.

01:38:14:00 - 01:38:32:10
Max Grover
And he wanted to do some sort of he didn't want to get fuzed he wanted to do some other procedure that some UFC guys had done. So it was like all over ESPN. Yeah. Then he got traded to Vegas and now just won the Cup with finally brought them to win a cop. Well, Phil Phil let's be honest.

01:38:32:10 - 01:38:59:05
Max Grover
Phil Phil's hotdog. Phil Yeah, what a story that guy is. That guy I skated with his brother at Traverse City. Oh, really? Yeah. Good player. Great player. Yeah. I mean, like, wise, everything. You probably would have thought he would be better. Yeah. And Phil is just Phil. Yeah. Phil threw and then his sisters and I'm an Olympian. She's like, the best player in the castle.

01:38:59:05 - 01:39:28:02
Max Grover
Yep. Yeah, she's one of the best players on the women's Olympic team. She's. Yeah. Is she the captain? I don't know. I hit maybe Hillary night. I heard. And I think you're right. I mean, she was yeah, she was a big deal. And that Lamoureux twins and then that Yeah yeah there I think it was ah I don't think it was her brothers and uncles and cousins played in the U.S. jail and they were tossed and then those girls played at North Dakota no doubt.

01:39:28:04 - 01:39:55:11
Max Grover
And they, they will they are meaner than their brothers. They are so me like you watch them play. You're like, these girls are tough. Yeah. So, yeah, I love it. Yeah. So now you're you're moving into the new new warehouse. How many employees are you at now? That's a not exactly sure. I bet you were. If you count Canada, I bet you were about 35 full time.

01:39:55:11 - 01:40:33:13
Max Grover
I would think something like that. And then warehouse fluctuating. Yeah. We get in Christmases a year. Yeah. So yeah we're always looking for I mean it's Black Friday, it's just insane all around there. So. Yeah. And as, as the growth and like, bringing new people in, I kind of asked this already in a way, but like, is it is a part of the, the hiring process it you you don't need that you need to love the sports in general but are you really still trying to pick hockey people and keep that banter depends on the job like you got to put in sales for hockey like you better not.

01:40:33:13 - 01:40:35:10
Chris Prins
Yeah, you better know your lingo.

01:40:35:12 - 01:40:53:06
Max Grover
Yeah, you got to. Yeah. I mean, but the funny thing is, as Dave, my right hand man Davis Ah I mean he never played I mean played a lick of hockey, but he was, he was an athlete growing up and I mean, I bet you that guy knows hockey more than most now, you know, just given what he's done for the last 20 years.

01:40:53:06 - 01:41:06:08
Max Grover
Yeah. And the, the secondary language is like getting into real estate where it's a different language with triple knots and cams. Yeah. GROSS smog, all those buzzwords like, Yeah, I don't even know what you guys talk about.

01:41:06:09 - 01:41:06:16
Chris Prins
I don't.

01:41:06:16 - 01:41:19:12
Max Grover
Either. I was just say I was probably. I just usually have to go. What are you saying that more than cap? Oh, I don't. Oh, yeah, I got a cap.

01:41:19:14 - 01:41:21:00
Chris Prins
Cap. Yeah. Nine cap. Okay.

01:41:21:00 - 01:41:32:01
Max Grover
MAN nine Cap. Yeah Higher is better if you're buying. Yeah, Yeah, that's all right. Nine cash. Pretty good. Where's it at?

01:41:32:03 - 01:41:32:22
Chris Prins
Plus market.

01:41:33:02 - 01:41:56:10
Max Grover
So and then the other part that I wanted to ask about too is like the, the actual sourcing of the manufactured and stuff and yeah, just feel free to adjust of that or there we go. But the actual sourcing of manufacturing and stuff, I mean, starting you were, I was a JJ Jaybird Jaybird tape and then you're like, Hey, we need to do better.

01:41:56:10 - 01:42:24:10
Max Grover
I want to do better. Yeah. What was that like to go out? Were you going to China? Were you like, Yeah, What was that story? Oh, we do it mostly. There's some products that we can't avoid getting from overseas, but like what we call our core products are tape. Our laces are wax. Most of those items now, most of those and all those items we have made in the U.S. and even even in the early days, like saw like starting out.

01:42:24:13 - 01:43:10:08
Max Grover
Yeah. Okay. Yep. And so, yeah, no, I mean, that's we you know, we have a really good relationship with those key suppliers. They yeah, they become big allies to our company. We do a lot of business together, but it goes beyond that. I mean, we've, we've done business with them for so long. So Yeah. Is that also, I would imagine have had to have been part of the conversation or is a part of the conversation and especially as a lot of people are starting to retire and you know, next generation COVID really change plans are like being like jumping into the manufacturing and doing that's been yeah yeah that's been kicked around like gear is

01:43:10:08 - 01:43:34:23
Max Grover
a is a is a is a city that can do a lot of that stuff. Right. Like so And that's not my passion necessarily. Running a manufacturing business. I'm good at sales, I'm good at marketing. But that's a possibility at some point that we would manufacture our own product or continue to, you know, have an ownership stake potentially in some of our suppliers.

01:43:34:23 - 01:43:41:15
Max Grover
Right? Yeah. So but yeah, I mean, I don't.

01:43:41:15 - 01:43:46:22
Chris Prins
Know, I guess it seems like you talked about earlier just your conservative nature of not necessarily jumping into something right.

01:43:46:22 - 01:44:08:00
Max Grover
Away. Yeah yeah. And yeah it's yeah, I don't think, uh, I don't think there's anything I'm going to do that's going to bet the farm, you know. Yeah. So what about. Okay, so like, how many products are on the website right now? It's, it's a lot. It's a lot. And it's really cool to see. Yeah. And the creativity and all, all of it to, like all the way through is.

01:44:08:00 - 01:44:26:09
Max Grover
Yeah, yeah. I mean it takes a lot of work so and those products, I mean it's not like your, it's not like your tape manufacturer that you've known for 20 years. They have a relationship. He doesn't make the wax or this guy doesn't make the shirt. So, like you, how are you Sauce? How did you go about sourcing all this stuff?

01:44:26:11 - 01:44:50:22
Max Grover
That's I mean, that's where I spend a lot of time. That's where our is. Product development. So yeah, you just send me, you see you're getting samples and people all the time and Yeah because you guys even do hockey pucks insulates is Yeah. Shower shower bags golf shirts. Yep yep. I mean wax every there's a million things. Yeah.

01:44:50:23 - 01:45:09:17
Max Grover
And it's all cool stuff So you're Yeah. All coming into the office. Toes are touch feel pull it use it exact and then a lot of product testing a lot of that stuff and so like yeah like the new location we're going to have a whole product development room because that's just a too big for is the average white male myself.

01:45:09:17 - 01:45:35:16
Max Grover
I would love to come to some of the products. You want to be a male model for us. Well, I'll just I'm I'm like, in my mind, I'm the average white man, so I like it. Yeah. It's probably going to be like most people. Like they. All right, all right, all right. But actually, the Polo Brook season was at Brook at Brook Eisen was that he was at the Blades guy you're going to.

01:45:35:17 - 01:45:52:15
Max Grover
Yeah. It's golf I think that's in two days. Yeah, yeah yeah I'm going to be in Ohio at the in-laws so I'm not this low Pretty smart but any of those Yeah I think it was where I bought that. It's the white polo with all the little houses logos on it. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. I get so many comments on that.

01:45:52:15 - 01:46:14:00
Max Grover
You're like people like some people honestly, like kind of like what is And other people love it. Yeah, I was like, That one's got a lot of noise too. So that's what I love. Yeah. And the, the actual, like the color and stuff is super nice. Nice. Yeah. Like the material and everything. Get the little xiaomi's. Yeah. That's kind of rubbery and yeah, it's, it's a nice shirt.

01:46:14:01 - 01:46:44:06
Max Grover
So like, how much time goes into finding that material? Even so. And that's we got to that's where I feel. Oh, I don't want to say inexperience. That's where that's like even when we were I don't know if we even talked about this on the podcast, but either before or after. Like I felt that even when I look at like a lulu or a boa or a Nike, it's like, man, they seem in my mind like they have it all put together and they're so far ahead of me when it comes to sourcing.

01:46:44:08 - 01:47:03:04
Max Grover
We do a good job of it. We that's where I feel like we got to get better, right? Without me moving to China for six months. Which year. Right. Which previously so hard to and especially like I'm I'm assuming is the American made thing a part of it is your preference. Yeah that you'd prefer to have it all here but.

01:47:03:06 - 01:47:12:07
Chris Prins
I'm also sure during COVID probably it was probably easier to keep everything in America compared to. Yeah, you had something from China trying to get that imported absolute mess.

01:47:12:07 - 01:47:24:18
Max Grover
That was a big deal for us when some everyone knows supply chain got all jacked up during COVID, I got a transformer on say today for keeps are different.

01:47:24:22 - 01:47:26:17
Chris Prins
When was it supposed to be?

01:47:26:19 - 01:47:56:22
Max Grover
We ordered it in April of 22 and it just got there and it was a different product. Then we had to shift, but they could get this one fat and I never thought that I would be excited to see Electrical components show up on a site like, Yes, I do think it's wild. That's what consumers just told us would be the thing like, Oh, we're hoping like hoping maybe, possibly I can't turn the power on on my building until this transformer showed up.

01:47:56:22 - 01:48:16:01
Max Grover
So we have a tenant that's fully built out the they're paying rent for the lease. Yeah. And they, they can't use their x ray machine that runs off a three phase power dude. Like a month ago they sent us an email that was like, Oh, yeah, we just got the shipping date and it's going to be January of 24.

01:48:16:03 - 01:48:17:18
Max Grover
So I'm like, oh, oh.

01:48:17:20 - 01:48:20:21
Chris Prins
January of 2024.

01:48:20:23 - 01:48:42:11
Max Grover
And that was like probably a month ago. And then we just got a different unit type or board. Yeah, on site day. And it was like a mad dash because they're not going away for you. Yeah. And it's like you got to make a decision of like going to this way, this version this time. Yeah. Otherwise it's gone.

01:48:42:13 - 01:48:52:18
Max Grover
And I'm convinced there's a black market for that. So I know we're like sitting in the and consumers is like, I've got my they're not ready. What do you think this guy.

01:48:52:20 - 01:48:53:21
Chris Prins
Who's got the highest bid.

01:48:53:22 - 01:49:21:17
Max Grover
Yeah exactly. Because I would have bought it if, if they would have me and been like, like hey 50 grand. Hey Don, I know this Bill Gates. I'm willing to pay Bill, when did they tell you or when did you. I thought, Oh, I think we ordered those things probably a month ago. And so and they were saying some time between March and June, Are you doing three?

01:49:21:17 - 01:49:41:10
Max Grover
I mean, you don't really need three phase power. You don't know what kind of power because they're not sure. There's just too many boxes like the actual the manufacturer who makes the little green box. Yes. What they're having issue with. So I don't know. That's just sort of it just showed up today and then it's like then the electrician has to order certain parts from this manufacturer.

01:49:41:10 - 01:50:04:14
Max Grover
And if he's not done ready, complete, but then he did do it like it last week. They're like, well, they told us that this part on the truck coming from I think it was coming from so on so and it's going to be here today at this time and then it didn't show up and then, well, the truck broke down in somewhere and I'm like, Oh, no, here we go.

01:50:04:16 - 01:50:13:01
Max Grover
You're kind of missing consumers. What the consumer's window. And it was like it it's wild for everybody in power components.

01:50:13:01 - 01:50:14:09
Chris Prins
Yeah, it's just a new world. We love it.

01:50:14:12 - 01:50:38:08
Max Grover
So that goes back into just sourcing of like, yeah, all the way down to t shirts and yeah well during COVID so, so that helped so much with athletic tape. We're making this stuff in the U.S. and a lot of our competitors are making this overseas. And so like we had been calling on all these high schools and colleges and like all of a sudden the phones are ringing and we're like, they're like, we can't get this stuff from our normal supplier.

01:50:38:08 - 01:51:01:08
Max Grover
And I know you guys have been calling, you got stuff like, so that was like how cool it was. That really did help us to break competitive advantage. Yeah. Was it not to mention that, you know, I truly think it's better. Yeah, it's a better product. So yeah, no, but I feel like I don't. You probably it looks like based on our website and based on our apparel that we do an awesome job.

01:51:01:10 - 01:51:17:00
Max Grover
I kind of I think we do and now that now that we talk about this, maybe we do do better job than I give myself credit for. But I look at companies like, Oh man, wouldn't it be great to be Lululemon because it just seems like they really know how to make stuff and it's like, I don't.

01:51:17:01 - 01:51:17:15
Chris Prins
Who knows you?

01:51:17:17 - 01:51:19:00
Max Grover
Who knows, You know?

01:51:19:02 - 01:51:30:08
Chris Prins
So peel back the curtain and see the operations and that's all you can do that you really don't know what someone's dealing with. Yeah, I'm sure they probably deal with their own, their same struggles of figuring stuff out.

01:51:30:10 - 01:51:53:09
Max Grover
Yeah, I but I've found Lululemon pants that have been the same like ABC, same waist. I won't say how big, but but then they, they're getting smaller they do like the length on at the store or whatever. Yeah. But like completely different. Yeah. The pants are completely different than the other ones even though they're supposed to be the same.

01:51:53:09 - 01:52:11:21
Max Grover
Yeah. They fit different. And so they do have the same. Even though that's the best and you're paying for the best. They still have. They have their own issues too. Apparels Hard like that though. It's got to be. Yeah. Because all I mean that probably means they switch manufacturers or something like that and it's hard to just make the same thing over and over again.

01:52:11:21 - 01:52:28:03
Max Grover
I don't know. Even like the when you're going to order, like how many t shirts do you have of the let's just call it like the white polo with the how. Yeah. Like how many of those t shirts you think you have and in-stock well, that one we sold out of the week. We're out of that. We sold right out of that.

01:52:28:03 - 01:52:42:04
Max Grover
But yeah, I mean, we might have, we might have order a couple of thousand of those so and then you get it and you're like, yeah, fit well on me or. Right. A couple of guys put in like right. The gen pop like does not.

01:52:42:09 - 01:52:43:15
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:52:43:17 - 01:53:04:23
Max Grover
That's got to be interesting. That is so and I think like a lot of people like I had people that I told you were coming on and they were asking me about that like those types of questions and that there's Yeah. Interested in. Yeah. How, how complex is that. I mean it's a, it's complex. So the guys went cheese and cheese.

01:53:05:01 - 01:53:27:20
Max Grover
Cheese and Garrett went to a show in Vegas a couple of weeks ago that just deals with sourcing and they said it was like and it specifically in the apparel industry and it was like they go we've never seen anything like this. It was like massive building. It was like the biggest trade show, like centers that you can think of like ten of them.

01:53:27:20 - 01:53:59:00
Max Grover
And it was all by like region. It was like China. China took up like seven of them and then there was like Vietnam had their own building and like USA had this dinky little section. I mean, it was crazy. So yeah, so that was I mean, do they, have you ever opened just an apparel magazine of like even the sports apparel that you were talking about getting into for like the coaching team, the warm ups, the jumps, 10,000 different options and just like one from one company.

01:53:59:00 - 01:54:25:10
Max Grover
So like the idea of that just overwhelm me and that's putting these swag bags or whatever that we're working on, I'm like, Jerry, you can deserve designer. Like, he likes other stuff too. He's better at it, but he's running with that. But I'm like, What? How do you even and like, are people actually going to use it? And then like, for us to like always, I'm like, I don't want to like even this one.

01:54:25:10 - 01:54:40:19
Max Grover
I don't like that it's on the front. Like, I would rather have it on the arm because I don't want people to wear stuff and feel like it's like a advertisement. Yeah, like wearing it because it's a cool shirt. Yeah, exactly. That's what I want. Because like, as opposed to, like a like a this is a bank shirt.

01:54:40:21 - 01:54:59:11
Max Grover
Like, I don't want that feel. And it's like, totally. So even on my little small little business has nothing to do with apparel, right? The amount of time that we spend on something so minuscule is so bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. But it matters like I've seen your stuff around and it's cool. We're trying. It's cool. And we. I did do a knockoff.

01:54:59:12 - 01:55:20:00
Max Grover
One of your hats that I tell you. This one. Was it with the cross? Yeah. Yeah. It didn't go. Not as cool as your. We rip that one off too. I mean, that's so like a lot of the stuff. I'll show you it after. Yeah, it was online. So OC Online. Like the guy that helped me put it together is like, Hey, I love this hat.

01:55:20:00 - 01:55:35:21
Max Grover
So I was like, But then I was too embarrassed to tell you because then the two tones were way too close, even though they didn't look like it online. And then it didn't make you an actual sample. While it was probably my fault and I'm sure we didn't order.

01:55:35:23 - 01:55:38:22
Chris Prins
The catastrophe from China, but.

01:55:39:00 - 01:55:57:21
Max Grover
Alibaba and most people probably wouldn't notice it, But I do. And that's like the two tones are too close where it almost looks like it was messed up as opposed to like the two. Like I'm thinking the green bell with the Brown backer. Yep. And I'll show you what I had. And you were like, Yeah, just throw it away.

01:55:57:21 - 01:56:16:16
Max Grover
Yeah, I know. Right? But it was, it was supposed to be a compliment because I like it. And that's another good thing that he does is like you go to his warehouse and like, I walked out with that hat and I think, you know Trevor and a shirt or something to bring home to to his daughter and now she's wearing Howie's hockey tape.

01:56:16:16 - 01:56:24:08
Max Grover
So. Right. And she is a soccer player from Hudsonville. Yeah. So it's like that's all those we give away way too much stuff.

01:56:24:10 - 01:56:29:08
Chris Prins
But it's free advertising. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Advertising agency for. Yeah.

01:56:29:10 - 01:56:50:01
Max Grover
Yeah. Even then, like, it's probably like for you to give something online versus like, there's probably guys in the warehouse I do like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Too much. And maybe I shouldn't tell people, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Don't take anything from the warehouse. Just stop by Howie's for anything free. Yeah, you want. You know, like.

01:56:50:03 - 01:56:51:03
Chris Prins
Just grab and go.

01:56:51:03 - 01:57:01:19
Max Grover
I heard you guys got free hats and shirts for him, right? You know, he's it. I'm sorry, dude. There's not that many people listening to. This is only. Come on.

01:57:01:21 - 01:57:05:03
Chris Prins
All right, boys. I gave you a little boy, Lord.

01:57:05:05 - 01:57:06:14
Max Grover
And you got in. New, baby.

01:57:06:15 - 01:57:07:21
Chris Prins
New baby. So, yeah.

01:57:08:00 - 01:57:08:12
Max Grover
Thank you.

01:57:08:12 - 01:57:09:06
Chris Prins
Oh, Max. Thank you.

01:57:09:08 - 01:57:10:03
Max Grover
Yeah, it was fun.

01:57:10:05 - 01:57:11:04
Chris Prins
I'll let you guys finish out.

01:57:11:04 - 01:57:30:19
Max Grover
Yeah, I'm good. All right, we can wrap, too, but. Yeah, thank you. See about it. Oh, you're good. See you, brother. Yep. Thank you for coming in. And this? It went 2 hours. I could probably go to more because I have a million questions on it, but that just means you'll just have come back. All right? And or.

01:57:30:21 - 01:57:49:16
Max Grover
Or you start your own, and then I can go on yours. There we go. I'm inviting myself. All right, you and scoot. Oh, my gosh. You're going to be like, Yeah, I'm going to have you and Max on there. And he's like, Who? I If you told me to tell him Beazer is going to be, I going to be on there.

01:57:49:19 - 01:58:13:13
Max Grover
That's his boy. Really? Oh, yeah. He's obsessed abuser. But yeah, dude, congrats on on the growth and everything And I do want I would like if you're on the ice more this year helping us to learn you come out but you're not as you come out like probably 75% of the time I know. I think the kids are.

01:58:13:13 - 01:58:35:11
Max Grover
Yeah, you're good. I'll try this there more. But it's actually that's like you have that to list. Like when you're out there with your own kid, it's so he's the worst. Oh, my God. You know, like, so. So it's like I almost want someone else to be out there picking the crying kid up off the ice, you know, like, it's been fun to watch because he's getting a hyper competitive of to like.

01:58:35:11 - 01:58:56:20
Max Grover
Yeah, I like I saw it was I don't remember when exactly like what part of the year last year but he scored a goal Yeah that was I remember that and I think you were standing up top when he did it and he scored a goal and then like all of a sudden, like, you saw something fun. Yeah, something clicked in his head and he was just like, yeah, he was like, boom.

01:58:56:20 - 01:59:20:09
Max Grover
Like, you can see that. I'm like, Oh, boy. I Yeah, well, see Max in the middle. So yeah, no, it's as fun. Yeah. And then I guess actually last question for kids. Mm. Driving major company at this point. New building like Yeah. I mean how do you balance. Is there balance Is there not even. I mean I feel bad I'm taking up here.

01:59:20:09 - 01:59:43:21
Max Grover
Oh, you're fine. I love doing it. This is in a weird way it's, I, I spend so much time thinking about the future and what I want to build, and it's really helpful to go back and think about everything we've done back on the Michigan street. Yeah. So let's see, how do we. Yeah, how do we balance that?

01:59:43:21 - 02:00:04:14
Max Grover
I think like to the size we've gotten and I like I need to have other business owners have done this kind of thing pour into me more and surround myself with other people, have done this kind of thing. But like I think I'm coming to the realization that I just it's it's beyond me. I'm too big for it.

02:00:04:14 - 02:00:26:20
Max Grover
So I kind of have a leadership team. These guys who I trust in their own respective departments and that's got to be so like starting to giving and not that you don't trust them or not that some probably better at this than you are. Yeah, but still like to have built it from Michigan Street. So then start giving up and you're like, well I would have done it this way.

02:00:26:21 - 02:00:45:23
Max Grover
Yeah. Even though that the other way still might work and be better or different. But it's like to give up that control so it's so hard. Yeah, but you know, the guys who I have, they're like most of the guys on the leadership team and even the guys who are phenomenal, they could be. So a lot of the people who aren't on the leadership team could be on the leadership team and run the business.

02:00:45:23 - 02:01:03:20
Max Grover
So it's like I have unbelievable dealer, you know? So who I just have no choice but to trust. And I do trust, but I, I have no choice also but to trust them because they're good. Is there a lot of I mean are you traveling a ton for what you're doing at this point? Are you able to get home every almost every day?

02:01:03:20 - 02:01:20:08
Max Grover
Yeah. No, I can get home most days. And I've kind of like the most fun you can have is going to these trade shows. And I have kind of said, I don't need to be there. I want to be, because it's like, Oh, I'm sure it's just, Oh, my dude, you would you, would you have so much fun.

02:01:20:08 - 02:01:42:16
Max Grover
So Vegas with cheese in Vegas with cheese and equipment manager shows, I mean. Oh, yeah, we'd have fun. You put like 300 hockey dudes in a at a resort somewhere with, like, free booze, Like, it's a good time, you know? So but it's a you're able to step. And so, I mean, most days you're in Grand Rapids, you're back home and.

02:01:42:16 - 02:02:06:18
Max Grover
Yeah, yep, yep. I mean, I got for this. I don't I'm just I'm not willing to miss that. And that's why, you know, the idea of trying to grow into these hard goods and spend time overseas and like, the sourcing thing, like, I can't I, I probably should have at this point gone to China a bunch of times or, you know, Asia for sourcing as we grow into this apparel and stuff like that.

02:02:06:18 - 02:02:29:22
Max Grover
Like but I mean let's be honest, like if you look at what Bauer and Kim, you know, the products they have there is none of them are made in on this continent, right? They're all being made in Asia. And everything that I have on right now. And you have. Oh, sure, yeah. Almost everything in this room. Right. And so it's still got to be hard, like to make that call when it's like, you know.

02:02:30:00 - 02:02:46:12
Max Grover
Yeah. What, Like, technically, yeah, I could look at the calendar, but I don't think about it. But when you're actually sending the money and writing the checks and dealing them, it's probably and you're, you know, from conservative little Grand Rapids, you're like, Oh, I want to do it. I want it to be U.S. company. It's got to be hard to.

02:02:46:15 - 02:03:08:23
Max Grover
Yeah, absolutely. A balancing act. Yeah. But it also is awesome because then I don't need to be on a plane to I don't even know where, but somewhere in China shipping house to hang out. Yeah, exactly. So, but yeah, I mean, as we continue to grow our brand and like I, you know, I think we've to continue to get better at sourcing.

02:03:09:02 - 02:03:36:21
Max Grover
So that's the that's a part the like with growing you know our own company and we're I mean we're 15 years behind you so it's a but I'm worried like the with the four kids and then knowing the sports and that this is all starting to ramp up and I'm like yeah school just started back today and like getting back into those routines and you're like, you don't want to miss it.

02:03:36:21 - 02:04:00:04
Max Grover
But then you also know that you got to push this and that, but then you're like, Do I need to? And making all those choices is just tired, has got to be ten for you. Four Yeah. 35 Employee Yep. Growing. Yeah. Yeah. How fast are you getting at making decisions up? You know, I used to be better. I think it really I think I'm getting worse at it.

02:04:00:04 - 02:04:27:18
Max Grover
It depends what the decision is right now. Well they're trying in bigger Yeah. They're more expensive decisions now. So yeah, that's, it's exciting. And I guess how could I leave it in the next five years? I mean what do you what's the what's the game plan for the next five years. Oh, we want to just have, I want to say controlled growth.

02:04:27:18 - 02:04:51:16
Max Grover
But even what we've done in the last two years feels out of control. And so part of it is like we've kind of it might be a wildfire that someone somewhat out of control with athletic tape. How well that's going. And so, look, we're going to get in this new building next year. That should give us a lot of runway to be able to build this business.

02:04:51:18 - 02:05:14:04
Max Grover
And yeah, yeah, I can see us. You know, I'd love to build this thing into a $100 million company at some point. So awesome. Yeah, it would be fun And I yeah, and I do And I'm adamant about too like, I do want to, you know, it's never going to be a founders or Amway or Steelcase or anything like that.

02:05:14:04 - 02:05:35:00
Max Grover
But like I, I do want to have just a really cool company that people in Grand Rapids are proud to have, like born in Grand Rapids, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I think I mean, you've already done that, though. Like everyone that everyone knows in the hockey world, or at least in the hockey world. Yeah. Like they're, they're, they've taken ownership.

02:05:35:00 - 02:05:53:10
Max Grover
I feel like this is our brand, too. Yeah. In a way. And which is got to be. We need that. Yeah. It's probably kind of weird though to to have like that, but it's, it's working. Yeah. So maybe not as fast as we all want it but. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy to think I've been at this for 21 years, dude.

02:05:53:10 - 02:06:19:17
Max Grover
You know, like from, from locker rooms, slang and tape with that. Yeah, it's nuts. All the way to $100 million company invention or not that I know. Yeah, I know, but I know how you work like you will be because this is the way you operate. Yep you're like you're one of those. And with what I do, it's really cool because I get to meet people and like.

02:06:19:19 - 02:06:39:01
Max Grover
Like I was talking to you about, like, the lumber to love guy, and it's so cool and, and or like, you know, there's other companies too, where you meet like Clay Petty from John Grace and, and when you meet a Ryan or Clay and you're like, they buy a building and they're like, I'm set for 20 years. This is a big move for me.

02:06:39:01 - 02:06:57:05
Max Grover
But but then you talk to them and you also see the vision that they have on certain things. And you're like, I at this point, like, I'm starting to be able to go like, now I'll see you in like four years because you're going to you're going to do, you're going to grow this to Yeah. And it's yeah, there's just certain people that have that and Yeah.

02:06:57:07 - 02:07:17:23
Max Grover
Yeah. So cool. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah thanks. And I think you have that you've had that your whole frigging life though. Yeah. All the way from everything you do. Yeah. For whatever reason. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why some people are like that. Yeah, you're right. That drive to be, like, create something bigger. Yeah, that's cool.

02:07:18:01 - 02:07:36:11
Max Grover
Congrats. What else are we going to do? That's a good point. Yeah. Like, we're kind of like, why not? Yeah, why not? Yeah, I don't know. It's fun. It is fun. Yeah. Thank you for doing dude. Like to to sit down for 2 hours. Yeah. Yeah. It really was great and it was very fun. So thank you. Good deal.

02:07:36:11 - 02:07:42:19
Max Grover
Thank you so much. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank. Sounds good. Thanks. Max Perry, by the way. And I there is not that.