Welcome to "Flipping Dreams with Calvin Beeke," the podcast that unveils the captivating world of home flipping in Michigan. Calvin Beeke, brings us through the highs and lows of flipping 150 homes a year. Join us to learn how dreams turn into stunning realities, one property at a time. Whether you're a real estate enthusiast or an aspiring flipper, this is where inspiration meets transformation.
Welcome to "Flipping Dreams with Calvin Beeke," the podcast that unveils the captivating world of home flipping in Michigan. Calvin Beeke, brings us through the highs and lows of flipping 150 homes a year. Join us to learn how dreams turn into stunning realities, one property at a time. Whether you're a real estate enthusiast or an aspiring flipper, this is where inspiration meets transformation.
00;00;06;19 - 00;00;19;06
Speaker 1
Welcome to episode number 12 of The Chris and Max Show. Thanks for being here, Max with me and our special guests here today. I'll let you kind of do the introduction and give them a quick little backstory before we hear from him.
00;00;19;12 - 00;00;25;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, Kelvin Becky, I'm a born and raised here in Grand Rapids.
00;00;25;16 - 00;00;26;10
Speaker 3
Said, Yeah.
00;00;26;13 - 00;01;00;03
Speaker 2
And from everything I know of your background has been in home flipping and then now into getting more into commercial real estate yourself and everything in between. And, and, but the backbone of it or the start of it was investment homes single family in two multifamily. Now in the commercial and we've done we've done some deals together and I know you've done some deals with Shaun and some other guys in West Michigan and everyone always has really good things to say about you.
00;01;00;03 - 00;01;05;05
Speaker 2
And also the cool part is how old are you?
00;01;05;07 - 00;01;06;08
Speaker 3
I am 32.
00;01;06;10 - 00;01;26;05
Speaker 2
33? Yeah. So 32 years old and cranky. I mean, big risks throughout the way and I don't know how we can get into how it scales and everything, but to be 32 and doing what you're doing with the machine behind you is pretty impressive. So I like your conversation with you about it.
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Speaker 3
I got it. There's a whole great team behind me, two that like David that just pulled everything together. So. Dave.
00;01;32;22 - 00;01;37;21
Speaker 2
David's brilliant. Yeah, he's a brilliant. How long have you guys known each other? This David.
00;01;37;21 - 00;01;48;10
Speaker 3
Weiss? Yeah. Yeah. High school. I mean, went to high school together, so he worked for my marketing firm that I then sold. And then about two years later, I was able to pull him back into the real estate firm.
00;01;48;10 - 00;01;51;14
Speaker 2
And was that the SEO company that.
00;01;51;16 - 00;02;00;11
Speaker 3
Yeah, Facebook marketing was like our number one category. The name of the company's venture creations, it's still it's still around today under different owners. So how.
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Speaker 2
How old were you when you started venture creation?
00;02;03;08 - 00;02;25;20
Speaker 3
So as 2009 was when when David and I graduated high school. And so basically that is when we started it. We started at a line of like hunting DVDs, which then still people had DVD players. And so we I think that first year we sold like around 5000 of those hunting DVDs, which really wasn't a moneymaker.
00;02;25;27 - 00;02;31;04
Speaker 2
It wasn't like you produced them or like, So you went out and shot videos. Yeah, we.
00;02;31;07 - 00;02;45;19
Speaker 3
Filmed, yeah. So we filmed there's like, you know, I was able to get like 15, you know, buddies, acquaintances. It's a really big thing in the hunting industry to want to film your hunts. Sure. And so we told there was Don in Michigan, so we.
00;02;45;19 - 00;02;51;11
Speaker 2
Dynasty like back when they started with just two films and then it rolls and gets bigger.
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Speaker 3
So we did that. And then just what it turned into was we never really made much money on the DVDs, but all these companies wanted to hire us for video work and for marketing work because they saw what we had done. And so then we landed Kawasaki engines as a client, and suddenly our company had like a little value.
00;03;09;00 - 00;03;09;24
Speaker 3
We are still just like.
00;03;09;24 - 00;03;11;08
Speaker 2
18 years old.
00;03;11;11 - 00;03;37;25
Speaker 3
Kawasaki was I was probably, I think, 21. So sales goes by like college. It was amazing. I mean, they would bring me to trade shows. So like, even that hurt. You know, we would like film shoots at trade shows. And so I couldn't even like the the Yeah. 20 years old, like we go to this trade show in Louisville and, and I couldn't even like go down on or, you know, go down on the strip and you know, have a.
00;03;37;27 - 00;03;40;06
Speaker 1
Go for happy hour whatnot network also.
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Speaker 3
So like I can.
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Speaker 1
Do that but.
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Speaker 2
Roll it back though to the start of the DVD. You're just avid hunter and you're like, hey, you're probably watching the DVD is and you're like, Hey, I could do this.
00;03;49;29 - 00;04;04;16
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's what it was. I was very little. The niche we had was just Michigan, so there was like almost no hunting productions in Michigan. So so we said, Hey, we're going to be it's called Michigan Whitetail Pursuit. It's actually on it's like 14, 15 season right now. It's a YouTube.
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Speaker 1
Show.
00;04;06;03 - 00;04;07;05
Speaker 2
Starring, you know.
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Speaker 3
I know I've had no ownership in it for nine years.
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Speaker 2
And was it so was were you the main person at the start or not?
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Speaker 3
Really, I was I was like the producer of it. But there were there was no there was no main character. Okay. So you had like a five minute hunt. You would go.
00;04;22;10 - 00;04;37;05
Speaker 2
Out and find a well-respected hunter in Michigan, that white tailed deer find them. The video producer, you know, put it onto your DVD. And then I actually I got the computer of Wolf, what is it called?
00;04;37;07 - 00;04;39;06
Speaker 3
Michigan Whitetail Pursuit.
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Speaker 2
And is it this is going to work? Is I if we did season one.
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Speaker 3
So yeah, season one I think you would just find the trailer on YouTube and you would you would see it. So yeah, that's it. But that's yeah, that's season 12.
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Speaker 2
This season 12.
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Speaker 3
So that's probably last year's season.
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Speaker 2
So and this. Okay.
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Speaker 3
See, I have nothing to do with this now but this. Yeah. This is the company that I saw. So you.
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Speaker 2
You started this and now you've been on the road Season one. That's you right here. Probably.
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Speaker 3
No, that's a new, that's a different show. Yeah.
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Speaker 2
I'm not as good as like.
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Speaker 3
Say a scroll scroll down there. So I like that. I mean, you see, I'm this fifth one over that. That's me right there, right here. Yeah.
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Speaker 2
That's actually you in the picture.
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Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah, I know what hunt that is so you definitely don't want to watch 16 minutes of this right now.
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Speaker 2
I was a little bit. So this was years. This.
00;06;03;22 - 00;06;14;19
Speaker 3
This has got to be. So that was actually. This is Thanksgiving Day. I was actually hunting with my wife, who was like eight months pregnant at the time, and she's brought to you by. Yeah, we're.
00;06;14;21 - 00;06;15;08
Speaker 1
They're still.
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Speaker 2
In they still have the same.
00;06;17;06 - 00;06;22;21
Speaker 1
So it's Thanksgiving Day. HUNT in Michigan. If you grow up in Michigan, you until you understand what that.
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Speaker 3
Means when I get off the bees memory of that.
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Speaker 2
Was me.
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Speaker 1
That's crazy. It's awesome.
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Speaker 2
So they still have the same logo and everything from.
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Speaker 1
Smaller.
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Speaker 3
Market manager earlier this year.
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Speaker 1
They actually comes in and pays attention.
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Speaker 3
Yes. Is a hunting property on Kalamazoo.
00;06;35;13 - 00;06;39;22
Speaker 2
And and then this guy is selling this device is that.
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Speaker 3
Yeah so there's a whole product so the company that bomb and marketing firm was a hunting company and and they they bought our company because I mean make a long story short, the marketing package we were pitching them was everything for tons of different products. And at a certain point they were like, why don't we Would you entertain an offer on us buying your company and you guys working full time for us while keeping all these other clients that you've got?
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Speaker 3
And I said, Yeah.
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Speaker 2
Not really, Not. Yeah.
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Speaker 3
So I didn't go to market the sale of my company. I just they were like, Hey, this might make more sense to us. Would it make more sense to you? And oddly enough, it was that same time where, you know, where I was soaking in bigger pockets and like, maybe I should, you know, really wanted to buy an apartment building.
00;07;29;25 - 00;07;49;04
Speaker 3
So. So I was like, I loved hunting and and loved the marketing business, but also loved real estate. And that was kind of my gateway into into buying apartment. So I worked for that company for two years and then left and bought my first apartment building. Then where was that in law?
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Speaker 1
Law?
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Speaker 3
Yeah.
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Speaker 1
How many units.
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Speaker 3
As a 12 unit.
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Speaker 2
Your first property? 12 units?
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Speaker 3
No, not at all.
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Speaker 2
I had.
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Speaker 3
Bought so I bought one and a one in 2009.
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Speaker 2
In the depths of the recession. And then yeah, there's everyone thinking.
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Speaker 3
Like.
00;08;05;03 - 00;08;14;26
Speaker 2
Crazy or I mean where did this, where did they, where did the idea for real estate come in or where did that passion or how did you how did that?
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Speaker 3
I always love I mean, both of my grandmothers worked for carpenters and I didn't really ever grow up in that. But I took like, you know, I mean, I went to Catskill Center for like a construction class. I just always I wasn't real mechanically minded just for some reason, love houses and real estate and money. I'd never really had any good training, but 2009, it was just like I just looking at the math, I mean, I could buy a house for 20 grand and they can run out for $800 a month.
00;08;42;23 - 00;08;46;28
Speaker 3
I never considered there'd be expenses in there. I missed that part and.
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Speaker 2
All part of the learning lessons.
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Speaker 3
Yeah, I like I like like I can pay for this house in like two years. And so that's what I did. And it was it was a train wreck. Like I almost sold that first rental I had the worst tenants. I mean, I had a little house to stay on. My first tenants were there was there was a wild party house like it was.
00;09;09;08 - 00;09;13;01
Speaker 3
And the second tenant tried to pay me with it. It was a handgun. She just she was like.
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Speaker 1
I have.
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Speaker 3
Money. I don't own money, but I have this gun that you could that's worth 800.
00;09;17;14 - 00;09;20;10
Speaker 2
I of landlord's being offered to be paid in other ways with.
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Speaker 1
Her handgun. And my first instinct was like, yeah, that's that's a good price. So therefore.
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Speaker 2
We decided this is probably stolen in a.
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Speaker 1
Murder. Yeah.
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Speaker 2
She's just trying to get rid of it.
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Speaker 1
Yeah.
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Speaker 3
So I did not accept that payment. Well, so.
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Speaker 1
So was that just you then, or did you have any partners?
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Speaker 3
That was just me. Bought another one in 2010. We actually flipped a little. We bought a house for 19 grand in 2009, put 20 grand into it and sold it for 39 grand. So it didn't work out well and and that was with three high school buddies.
00;09;57;03 - 00;09;59;29
Speaker 2
Say that I couldn't say what the numbers were. Again, I was we bought.
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Speaker 3
It for 19 grand. We put 20 grand into it and we sold it for 39.
00;10;04;28 - 00;10;07;09
Speaker 1
What we call that learning experience. Yeah.
00;10;07;12 - 00;10;13;12
Speaker 3
That's what I learned about it. 39 grand. That's what I learned about, you know, closing costs and all that sort of stuff.
00;10;13;14 - 00;10;18;24
Speaker 2
Well, even then, like, what if you if you had held that in, where was it?
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Speaker 3
That was northeast side Fuller And now what's that.
00;10;22;19 - 00;10;24;04
Speaker 2
House today worth?
00;10;24;06 - 00;10;27;05
Speaker 3
A tiny little box but like 199 to 20.
00;10;27;08 - 00;10;35;11
Speaker 2
So I mean a lot of that's just it in a obviously you're going in with the mindset of turn and burn and flip and create. Yeah. And but I think I've.
00;10;35;11 - 00;10;44;16
Speaker 3
Flipped the house at least every year like this is for Laura and I like I think we're living in our seventh home so we did a lot of like the live in flip.
00;10;44;16 - 00;10;52;06
Speaker 2
Are you doing a lot of the your grandparents your you said your grandpa and your dad were carpenters we're.
00;10;52;09 - 00;10;54;23
Speaker 3
Both my grandmothers are comfortable to go out. My dad's like.
00;10;54;25 - 00;10;58;04
Speaker 2
Are you doing a lot of the work on your own houses? Personally, when.
00;10;58;05 - 00;11;18;05
Speaker 3
It was early on, I do not have a I don't have my builder's license. I don't have a deep knowledge, especially now. Like I've learned like it's been five years since I've switched out an outlet or a light fixture, you know, so, so early on in those flipping days, it was just like, find a way and it was very light flips.
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Speaker 3
Yeah. And same thing that rentals. It was very hard, but it was very like a unit.
00;11;21;16 - 00;11;22;26
Speaker 2
Turn, maybe a bathroom.
00;11;22;26 - 00;11;44;27
Speaker 3
So vendors were cheap to like. I mean, in 2009, basic first house I bought, I was like, I had like an $8,000 emergency slash rehab budget for the house. And they want to go into there and like as a as a foreclosure. So I'd switch on the, you know, the water, the plumbing, the water pressure was like very low.
00;11;44;29 - 00;12;05;15
Speaker 3
And all my galvanized pipes that had been sitting for two years were shot. So for a hundred, you know, replant that entire house for five grand. my gosh. So and today I don't even I mean, 20, you know, 25 grand maybe like it was. So he was there for like two weeks.
00;12;05;17 - 00;12;30;23
Speaker 2
So it's always, I mean, like in now, right? Real estate's moving and prices keep going up. And so that's it. But it's a it's different sets of now it's more on the buy side and finding the right buy I would assume then actually the the sell side is done done like isn't is it's up it's gone because of inventory but like the problems just shift almost a little bit over the course of time.
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Speaker 2
And so 2009 2010, you're 20 how old.
00;12;35;17 - 00;12;48;13
Speaker 3
Are you as a 29? I was 18, so about one in ten or one in nine, one in ten, I think two in 11, two and 12. And then David and I started buying pretty heavily in 2013, I think we bought 17 units and.
00;12;48;13 - 00;12;49;26
Speaker 2
David Walker.
00;12;49;29 - 00;12;54;00
Speaker 3
yeah. So I think we bought 17 units in 2013 and then.
00;12;54;03 - 00;12;58;25
Speaker 2
And are you doing, are you self-funding, Are you going out. Family, friends.
00;12;58;25 - 00;13;11;17
Speaker 3
That's the commercial I think the first commercial and normal residential loans we started getting word 2014 everything before that was going to friends and family and and.
00;13;11;23 - 00;13;12;26
Speaker 2
Because it like it.
00;13;12;26 - 00;13;21;00
Speaker 3
Was like 23 it was like borrowed I'd like to borrow 20 grand to, you know, I'll give you 8% interest, you know, on this deal, because.
00;13;21;01 - 00;13;25;25
Speaker 2
At 20 years old, 22 years old, even the banks aren't going to be ecstatic about.
00;13;25;27 - 00;13;33;17
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I had terrible credit. My that first tenant I mean, this is just my list of terrible decisions that first tenant he in.
00;13;33;17 - 00;13;37;08
Speaker 2
The bank and he had all the utilities down payment and a handgun.
00;13;37;10 - 00;13;41;18
Speaker 3
Yeah I put all those utilities into my name for her.
00;13;41;23 - 00;13;42;11
Speaker 1
00;13;42;19 - 00;13;48;13
Speaker 3
And said, you know, here's how you pay them under my name. And well that didn't happen. So.
00;13;48;16 - 00;14;05;02
Speaker 2
my goodness. Yes. I mean, but Right. Like that's always a learning you got a learning experience done and over with when you're 18 to 22 years old and now now you're rolling into a market that just continues to heat up and 14 through now. Yeah, 23.
00;14;05;03 - 00;14;11;21
Speaker 3
Yeah. So those are like those that little apartment building was like 40 grand a unit in 2000.
00;14;11;21 - 00;14;12;17
Speaker 2
And a 12 unit.
00;14;12;17 - 00;14;17;25
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it's a fairly nice, I mean just normal, not luxurious but just your solid brick and.
00;14;17;27 - 00;14;21;25
Speaker 2
And ones that trade in for today. 100 110 adore probably Yeah.
00;14;21;25 - 00;14;22;23
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;14;22;25 - 00;14;26;27
Speaker 2
While the Theodore to 110 and ten years.
00;14;27;00 - 00;14;46;21
Speaker 3
Yes and then we started buying. Yeah and so at that point we started buying an apartment building probably every like six 3 to 6 months. So never found like the big one. Always wanted to buy, you know, like 100 unit. And so we've bought, we bought plenty of like 24, 30 unit type things, you know, all kind of all over.
00;14;46;24 - 00;15;06;02
Speaker 1
So when you first started out, was there like an area of town that you focused around like the northeast side? Because we talked to a lot of different brokers or real estate guys and they kind of say like pick a specific area and just get to know it, get familiar with it. Was was it that Northeast that you kind of focused in on initially and then kind of started to look elsewhere.
00;15;06;04 - 00;15;30;20
Speaker 3
From a flipping perspective? So I mean, I think full time flipping started in 2015. Then we would pick up then it was like focused on the north side, focus on East Town for a year there I switched to like East Grand Rapids. I did a bunch of high end East Grand Rapids, like almost all sales prices on my flips between like six and 900.
00;15;30;22 - 00;15;45;03
Speaker 3
And the first two went really great. So that's why I stayed there. And then like the next three didn't go so great. So like our model today is like, is your basic, you know, our sales price of 262 300 is our is like our target sales price.
00;15;45;03 - 00;15;50;14
Speaker 2
And backing up once again I mean I never heard you say college did you.
00;15;50;19 - 00;16;07;08
Speaker 3
I honestly I haven't bought and had had a get a great business management profits you see you had a great and a great profit Davenport or he actually pushed me into buying my first rental so he was part of the influence on that. So he helped me with like the math. And did you.
00;16;07;10 - 00;16;14;23
Speaker 2
Do your grandparents and your dad on rentals or anything, or you just saw this as like you just saw the opportunity in your mind and.
00;16;14;28 - 00;16;38;09
Speaker 3
It just yeah, it just made sense assets wise too. I mean, I knew lending was the future. I mean, I just can't I mean, every time you have that stock market versus real estate conversation, it's like it's so clear. I don't know why you would do anything other than real estate. You know, especially when interest rates, you know, they've always been three or four or 5%, obviously now gets a little harder.
00;16;38;09 - 00;17;06;04
Speaker 3
But yeah, I, I didn't really have a background of so I don't know if you I'm sure you know my cousin John Denver my John has helped me along the way for like especially with the commercial transition like he kind of followed the same path of so he graduated like I never graduated Davenport I dropped out but John graduated Calvin and thing in 2009 and or maybe 2008.
00;17;06;06 - 00;17;12;10
Speaker 3
And so he he was buying residential like crazy. See? And so he did that commercial kind of switch earlier.
00;17;12;10 - 00;17;17;18
Speaker 2
Where you but you were already in the game at this point too so it's not like it was like, timur's too.
00;17;17;21 - 00;17;22;22
Speaker 3
So I mean, I was buying a house. I was buying one house every half a year. He was buying one house a week.
00;17;22;24 - 00;17;33;04
Speaker 2
So a house we Yeah. my goodness. And then he's was his game plan similar of like fixed and flipper was he doing. He was all.
00;17;33;04 - 00;17;59;06
Speaker 3
Rentals all rent. Yeah. And I was pretty much too I mean rentals was my main, I always had my marketing job and I worked for, you know, Forth Arrow, the company that purchased my marketing firm. And so I, I had always had a 40 to 50 hour week commitment. So I wasn't really I would again, I'd flip like one or two houses a year on the side until I flipped about 20 that first year full time flipping.
00;17;59;08 - 00;18;15;20
Speaker 3
Yeah. So but yeah, John, John was all rentals so I was just buying hold rentals and then, and then eventually when you know, market started coming off, you would just sell them in batches of like ten or 14 as down payment money for that to three commercial.
00;18;15;20 - 00;18;26;24
Speaker 2
Vega So and did he go, did he go into heavier into multifamily as well or did he did not because he went into commercial. He's more industrial buyers now.
00;18;26;24 - 00;18;27;15
Speaker 3
And so he's.
00;18;27;15 - 00;18;50;11
Speaker 2
Back. Yeah, yeah. A lot of that type of product as opposed it like that. That's where I dealt with him was he was selling a property that was just straight triple net commercial. And I was talking to his broker and he's like, Yeah, he's getting rid a lot of this too. Then double down basically in that industrial market and continuing to push into that.
00;18;50;11 - 00;18;59;29
Speaker 2
So yeah, and it's been super hot for the last ten years really too. Yeah. So I mean that's been like the, the industrial market just hasn't stopped.
00;18;59;29 - 00;19;03;12
Speaker 1
That seems like the one you haven't no one's lost yet in that.
00;19;03;15 - 00;19;41;20
Speaker 2
And I don't I mean with all the reshoring and stuff that's happening like you're like and maybe it's just optimism, but it's like it and even we're here yesterday with the is hockey could mark sapling good you know how important it is for him to have stuff being made in America if he can and the production here and trying to find those partners to to work with in the states and then he talked about how because he had done that during COVID and he was still able to get product where other people that were using overseas vendors and and everything couldn't it it just ramped his business right up.
00;19;41;20 - 00;19;57;28
Speaker 2
So it was like it was like one of those things where it's like, like business wise, yeah, like maybe I'm paying more in the time. But then over the long run, for some odd reason, like, you know, if you believe in God, which I'm pretty sure Kelvin you do, because I've met a lot of people that do.
00;19;58;00 - 00;20;09;19
Speaker 2
I met so many people that I feel like at least five people that go to your church and they're all super successful. And I'm like, I think I go to their own church.
00;20;09;22 - 00;20;12;14
Speaker 1
Okay, that's not the reason you got to share, you know? Yeah.
00;20;12;16 - 00;20;25;19
Speaker 2
But no, obviously, I know that's why you go. But but in reality, like, I mean, you're you're obviously get out of here with the cell phone conversations out there. Come on.
00;20;25;21 - 00;20;26;22
Speaker 1
Come on.
00;20;26;24 - 00;20;44;22
Speaker 2
Girl. He's getting a lot of it. But anyways, like it. But you're around people clearly with good minds and probably good process and good. What's the word I'm looking for? Commitment's not the right word, but like you're.
00;20;44;22 - 00;20;46;17
Speaker 1
Yeah, but you know where your values and.
00;20;46;18 - 00;21;05;03
Speaker 2
Values would probably be a good word. And just keeping you straight, right Like and not getting veered off in this some I mean at 20 years old, if you're making money and you're still continuing to make good, strong decisions and not going to party and if there's something to that, too.
00;21;05;05 - 00;21;32;14
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, there was definitely the moral, you know, I mean, I don't know how far you going to go down this. Yeah but no there Yeah I mean the moral side of that I think Yeah. I do want to say it's a platform for, you know, success. I think, I think God does very much bless, you know, those who abided his word that same time he also gives trials and stuff to, you know, to bring us closer to him.
00;21;32;14 - 00;21;50;06
Speaker 3
So but but I think I think the the going back to my background, I mean, there's a lot of guys, even in my class that like I went to a small Christian high school and there's a lot of guys in my class that were just like very business oriented. So. So now.
00;21;50;07 - 00;21;50;24
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
00;21;50;26 - 00;21;56;05
Speaker 3
And we were all coming out of that. Like when you're guys like we didn't know what was happening 28 years ago.
00;21;56;05 - 00;21;56;19
Speaker 1
So yeah.
00;21;56;23 - 00;22;02;11
Speaker 3
It was Plymouth Christian at the time. That's Grace. Grace Christian Academy. Yeah. No, those two split split and.
00;22;02;15 - 00;22;05;23
Speaker 2
In the smaller schools. So you know how many kids are in your class.
00;22;05;29 - 00;22;06;25
Speaker 3
It's like 30.
00;22;06;28 - 00;22;27;17
Speaker 2
So in my, in the whole class, like your eighth grade class is 30 kids. Yeah. So you guys know each other super well. And then probably, I mean, even like if you have siblings, like you do get competitive even with your siblings, like, you get to know them, they're pushing. And if you get a good group of people that are all pushing that drive, it just it's funny, that raises all both.
00;22;27;17 - 00;22;50;10
Speaker 1
So I just had my my first kid about three weeks ago, and I've always heard from different parents, like the one thing I would pay for my kids to have is good friends around them, good, just good Christian friends like everything else. Like you try to teach your kid good values, good morals and everything like that. But at the end of the day, you have to send them out into the world, send them out to the schools, and just having them surrounded by good people are so important for her.
00;22;50;13 - 00;23;00;28
Speaker 2
It's so hard to because you don't want to over protect kids either. Like you need them to see the real world and that, you know, Coulombe 18 saying, yeah, don't put the utilities in my name.
00;23;00;28 - 00;23;02;08
Speaker 1
And like she she.
00;23;02;08 - 00;23;12;23
Speaker 2
Said she was going to pay for it. So obviously she will. Like that's the real world, right. Yeah. Like there's, there's that aspect of it where it's like it's so hard to know like what to do and but I also.
00;23;12;25 - 00;23;24;21
Speaker 1
Think you want to trust people, right? I mean, there's a reason you did that you had that trust for. Okay. Yeah. It's I always say it's the West Michigan nights. Like you don't assume that everyone's going to follow through with the promises they've made.
00;23;24;23 - 00;23;52;03
Speaker 3
Yeah. yeah. There's not. This world is crazy. Like I, I plan on, I'll set up plan. I'm like, sheltering my kids. But yeah, you do have to. It's like, yeah, show them what the what this world is. And so but I, but I think, you know, I think a world without God, which is a lot of what we see America I mean the the text the Bible says every man did that which is right in his own eyes and like that you know that is every all our slogans, right.
00;23;52;03 - 00;24;13;09
Speaker 3
You know, whether it's having your way or dirty, you know, all the every company has this phrase of like, it's all about you, you, you what you want. Like, we're actually living in a world that's not ours. And we were created for ourselves and we were created for God. So, like, you know that, you know, does that. That's what I want to teach my kids.
00;24;13;10 - 00;24;37;12
Speaker 2
And that drives you like though, to like and like where some people would look at what you're doing with the, the real estate game and the investments and signing personal guarantees like do you think part of that, like knowing that at the end of the day, like you're leaving A here, it's you're not taking it with you. There's something bigger than you and and you'll be okay and some former like it there's.
00;24;37;12 - 00;24;38;24
Speaker 3
A huge piece there like.
00;24;38;29 - 00;24;42;14
Speaker 2
Then you read about like Jobe or something and you're like, Please God.
00;24;42;16 - 00;24;46;11
Speaker 1
Please, maybe job like these. Don't make me do that. Like what?
00;24;46;11 - 00;24;50;17
Speaker 3
The end result of Jobe is very good. Yeah.
00;24;50;19 - 00;24;54;07
Speaker 1
I know, I know. You don't want to be. You know, I don't. I don't even.
00;24;54;08 - 00;25;10;07
Speaker 2
Like. I mean, come on. Like, no one wants that. Like, you don't want to be tested like that. But yeah, of course it like, it tempers you and it makes you. It makes you a stronger, better. I guarantee you, there's no one with more faith than Joe, because. Mike, how do you do that?
00;25;10;08 - 00;25;11;03
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;25;11;05 - 00;25;12;28
Speaker 2
And so that's why some.
00;25;12;28 - 00;25;32;14
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's why the devil wanted to go after him because he was so, you know, he was so focused on God despite having all this wealth and possessions. So I don't know. The test is like, what's your what's your priority? And I mean, I have the internal battle, too. Like, it's fun to make money. It's fun to it's fun to look at your net worth spreadsheet and say and, you know, be like, wow, this is awesome.
00;25;32;14 - 00;25;41;08
Speaker 3
And then but I mean, that day of reckoning is always there's, you know, a recession. What other forms is coming? I mean, there's there's there's going to be.
00;25;41;10 - 00;25;55;16
Speaker 2
A hard time and you've and you've already seen some too. But then you're like, you know, you talked about your the first rental or the first flip you do with your buddies, which is break even, which basically means you lost money because you spent all this time doing.
00;25;55;23 - 00;25;55;29
Speaker 3
yeah.
00;25;56;05 - 00;26;06;04
Speaker 2
And but you're still plugging. Why? Like, why do you keep going back? Why do you keep going back to do it at this point, like back then? Right. All right. I was your driver.
00;26;06;07 - 00;26;36;02
Speaker 3
Yeah. I almost wonder that. I think it was just I think I was convinced that I'm not sure why, but I was convinced that even at that time, that if I bought a $25,000 house like I would, I bought one by, let's see, ball and lettered area for 25 grand with David in 2011. And like when I bought the house, I knew that thing was going to be worth on a grand and I didn't know it was going to be four years or or eight years.
00;26;36;02 - 00;26;36;14
Speaker 3
But like.
00;26;36;19 - 00;26;38;11
Speaker 2
Dude, I was your.
00;26;38;11 - 00;26;40;23
Speaker 1
Age. I was just focused on hockey, like just.
00;26;40;23 - 00;26;44;17
Speaker 2
In my own little bubble playing hockey. Like I didn't even our school is too small.
00;26;44;17 - 00;26;47;13
Speaker 3
We have sports and I didn't like that. I was so.
00;26;47;13 - 00;26;50;27
Speaker 2
Different for even having that thought process at that age. Like what?
00;26;50;29 - 00;27;01;18
Speaker 3
Like, I love that I love business. I mean, I started when I was 16. I had a whole pet store in my basement and I had no customers cause I had no marketing. So it's.
00;27;01;20 - 00;27;03;11
Speaker 2
Again, actually you, sir, did you ever.
00;27;03;11 - 00;27;04;07
Speaker 1
Go to sell fish?
00;27;04;07 - 00;27;23;06
Speaker 3
Just I had, like, rooms of aquariums. My parents actually let me go. And then at 17, I, I started like I had I would buy bows on Craigslist as soon as I got my driver's license. I'm like, People are selling bows on Craigslist for $200. There's no there's no archery equipment. There's no like use archery equipment in California.
00;27;23;06 - 00;27;49;17
Speaker 3
And hunting is becoming very popular in California. And and so I would buy bows on Craigslist and I would I would usually package them up like put aside arrest arrows case, and I would sell them on eBay, usually to like California buyers. And I would you know, I would always make like 100 to $200 per bow. So like every I'd be shipping bows until 3 a.m. in the morning on a school night at 17.
00;27;49;19 - 00;28;00;18
Speaker 2
So just parents, super entrepreneurial or just. No, just supportive. And the idea of you doing this like to be like, you're crazy. Like, what are you doing?
00;28;00;18 - 00;28;16;03
Speaker 3
I mean, my, you know, yeah, my mom has her, like, had her masters at Calvin and teaching. My dad has his doctorate and he's a seminary professor. So I'm I'm so they're, they're very supportive, but I'm definitely the complete opposite of what they did or.
00;28;16;08 - 00;28;30;08
Speaker 2
That sounds cool. So 817 years old, the nerdy running your first businesses all the way to 20, you've already started and sold the business. Is that about right?
00;28;30;08 - 00;28;30;27
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;28;30;29 - 00;28;36;17
Speaker 2
And then just seeing that and then rolling it all into real estate from there.
00;28;36;20 - 00;29;00;04
Speaker 3
Yeah, there were a couple of failures too. I started there were, I think got two or three businesses that like, you know, got, you know, started, even got some funding divorces, had that star garden. yeah, I even got funding for one of the businesses. And that business kind of failed and you know, so it wasn't like it wasn't all roses.
00;29;00;04 - 00;29;02;12
Speaker 3
It wasn't it. I definitely had some.
00;29;02;14 - 00;29;08;13
Speaker 2
What was that? What was that business idea? Or maybe you don't want to relive that.
00;29;08;15 - 00;29;24;13
Speaker 3
There are parts of it that are successful I still believe can be success. But there are things that. So the company was called giraffes. It was like an eyewear accessory on the side. So that's one that came to my comes to mind. I mean, there are elements of the marketing business that failed Sheryl too. So it was just there are many ideas.
00;29;24;13 - 00;29;36;10
Speaker 3
I mean, I was just I was always a sea of ideas and very I don't think I had great discipline. I was always like skipping out of the next business, trying all these different things. And I think if I had actually buckled down on one or like one of those just.
00;29;36;16 - 00;29;37;22
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
00;29;37;24 - 00;29;45;13
Speaker 3
You know, like three, right. Or Gary Keller the one thing. Yeah. Like that really narrowed I feel like narrowed me.
00;29;45;17 - 00;30;07;06
Speaker 2
I'm so I'm so bad at that myself but it's like because you're like you're so focused on it. It isn't even like, it's not a great thing. It's really it's like just opportunity and, you know, value add to certain things and trying to find the next thing to work on. But then maybe it distracts you from the. Yeah, yeah.
00;30;07;06 - 00;30;20;23
Speaker 3
I've been at that too. Like Airbnb is for me right now, like Airbnb have been very lucrative, but like, I think they've almost been a distraction for me to like the, you know, commercial industrial, high return. But they're.
00;30;20;25 - 00;30;30;13
Speaker 2
Do you think there's an opportunity in the market? I was thinking about this the other day where like pretty much everyone in the city of Grand Rapids just got noticed for you've just got.
00;30;30;13 - 00;30;31;13
Speaker 3
Five of them can.
00;30;31;13 - 00;30;34;23
Speaker 2
And they're just going to the website. They're pulling all your.
00;30;34;25 - 00;30;35;13
Speaker 1
Your bill.
00;30;35;13 - 00;31;04;20
Speaker 2
And they're pulling guys, pulling them off the website and saying, Boop, send this guy a letter. He shouldn't be Airbnb being. Yeah. So like pretty much everyone in Grand Rapids just got notice over like the last month that's been doing Airbnb and, and, and the people that I know that have been doing it, I mean the one I'm thinking in particular, I think he was making like three grand a month and now he's going to rent it back out as a, as a housing unit, just a normal housing a month, a month or annual lease.
00;31;04;20 - 00;31;31;24
Speaker 2
And it's like 1500 bucks a month. Right. So he he losing half of that. But anyways, I'm like, I wonder if like small boutique if you actually went through and found the property, put a small boutique up well small coffee shop and like ran this little boutique hotel Airbnb style if there's opportunity with all those units coming off the market or if they just get recaptured by the hotels that have coming to town, I don't.
00;31;31;24 - 00;31;38;28
Speaker 3
Think they get recaptured by the hotels. I think there's people out there specifically who just always want to be in an Airbnb.
00;31;39;00 - 00;31;46;07
Speaker 2
And just have their own kitchen, their own space experience the city better, like naturally or what?
00;31;46;10 - 00;32;00;16
Speaker 3
I would always try to figure out the why of that question. And then every Airbnb we would put up would go, Amazing. And I don't know why. Why do people rent our car? We have a cottage that rents for 799 at night. I wouldn't pay 799.
00;32;00;18 - 00;32;01;28
Speaker 1
So I don't.
00;32;02;05 - 00;32;05;08
Speaker 3
Yeah, I guess I don't need to answer the why when they're doing it.
00;32;05;11 - 00;32;08;17
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. They do it all with their dollars, their answer. But so.
00;32;08;17 - 00;32;09;11
Speaker 1
It's, I would, I.
00;32;09;11 - 00;32;18;27
Speaker 3
Would go, I don't think I'm going to do this but I would go hit all the little you know I don't know what Tom sorry Parks rules are. I would go I would go hit all the areas if I was.
00;32;18;27 - 00;32;19;17
Speaker 1
On the outskirts.
00;32;19;17 - 00;32;23;24
Speaker 3
I would change my if I wanted to Airbnb game plan, I would just bump off.
00;32;23;27 - 00;32;33;04
Speaker 2
I just see universes all over to do the boutique. You would go single family or quads or something in towns like Park or Plainfield or.
00;32;33;11 - 00;32;33;28
Speaker 1
Alpine.
00;32;33;29 - 00;32;39;15
Speaker 2
Alpine Township or all these other in Wyoming, just outside the city limits.
00;32;39;15 - 00;32;41;16
Speaker 3
And yeah, I mean I think why are people hammer it.
00;32;41;21 - 00;33;07;02
Speaker 2
So does somebody really like in my mind like if I'm going to Austin, like I want to be right down to six. I don't want to be I'm not I don't want to be in the outskirts, like 25 minute drive it. It's not that far, I guess, in Grand Rapids, but you want to like be you want to walk out on wealthy street and be by donkey and all these, you know, cool little boutique restaurants and shops.
00;33;07;04 - 00;33;13;24
Speaker 3
I only tell you. Yes. But are Airbnbs that are a little more distant like we got one in Sparta like they do just as well.
00;33;13;29 - 00;33;21;13
Speaker 2
And is a is a business professionals renting these for like a week or is it people going on vacation and everything between.
00;33;21;16 - 00;33;41;21
Speaker 3
It's everything it's is you know I mean there's everything it's you know it's a wedding where they're coming in to stay for a week and they just yeah, they really just need a place to stay for more people than I mean, once you get especially, you can get a tiny little Airbnb to still sleep. Six people. I mean, think about the hotel costs of sleeping six people.
00;33;41;21 - 00;33;44;16
Speaker 3
So you're actually it's you're you're actually making an economics decision.
00;33;44;16 - 00;34;01;08
Speaker 2
It's so nice like for like when I've travel, I've got four kids and like when you travel and you know, it's a23 bedroom place, Airbnb and you can put the kids in a different room, but they're still in the house and yes, laundry. You have the kitchen.
00;34;01;10 - 00;34;04;15
Speaker 3
Four kids in a hotel room is a nightmare.
00;34;04;17 - 00;34;08;00
Speaker 2
It can be horrifying. It's been done.
00;34;08;02 - 00;34;10;11
Speaker 1
Like I've done it to my.
00;34;10;11 - 00;34;15;04
Speaker 2
Kids. You have four? Yeah, for once, age one.
00;34;15;05 - 00;34;20;22
Speaker 3
There's about to be a couple birthdays. Then they'll be seven, five, three and one.
00;34;20;24 - 00;34;43;24
Speaker 2
Dude, we're almost exactly the same. Maxes. Yes, they happen. They hit for almost the same exact issue, but it's seven I mean, seven restarting six at the end of the month. So Otis will be five in the summer. So he's seven, six, five, and then Arlo's two right now. So it's almost identical. Yeah, it's intense. Yeah. When you get home, it's and I love.
00;34;44;00 - 00;34;49;14
Speaker 3
I love him to pieces, but yeah, it's the work at home is harder than the work at work, for sure.
00;34;49;17 - 00;34;50;02
Speaker 2
my goodness.
00;34;50;03 - 00;35;02;19
Speaker 1
That's all I've heard. Especially with my first born. Everyone's like, Just you like to get away for work for a bit? Yeah. No No, I don't know. I mean, yeah. Max loves me, though. Yeah.
00;35;02;21 - 00;35;10;25
Speaker 2
No, I would never start a podcast is something that has an extra excuse not to know. It's like podcast or golf, I guess.
00;35;10;25 - 00;35;13;17
Speaker 1
My only podcast. Yeah.
00;35;13;20 - 00;35;33;12
Speaker 2
No, it's so fun. It really. But it's a I was just telling Chris to like, have you seen the Andy Samberg clip where he's like, everyone, like, talks about when you're going to have your first kid, like, it's the best thing that ever happened to you. You're going to love it. It's amazing. And then you have your first kid and like everyone that has kids is like.
00;35;33;14 - 00;35;37;16
Speaker 1
You're gone. It's a well, go to the other side.
00;35;37;22 - 00;35;48;28
Speaker 2
It's like it's like horror. And it's like, yeah, I don't really feel that extreme on it, but it is like newborn baby stuff, especially especially for the moms.
00;35;49;01 - 00;35;49;26
Speaker 3
my. Yeah.
00;35;49;29 - 00;35;51;04
Speaker 2
Then you're like, Stay home.
00;35;51;10 - 00;36;10;09
Speaker 3
Yeah, she does. And that and that and that I feel is like the other. A huge difference. If she wanted to be a she always wanted to say my mom when she was, when we had our, when we had our first so honestly our first approach honestly the hardest transition was from 3 to 4. Just like for me, like it's just.
00;36;10;09 - 00;36;17;01
Speaker 2
One was the hardest. Just because it's the most life changing like it is was sudden. It's like just we still do.
00;36;17;01 - 00;36;30;15
Speaker 3
All sorts of travel. We went like we took we went down south for two months in the winter, like travel with one and like did all shirts and that's with a little one and like, yeah, I'm doing that. What's the for.
00;36;30;15 - 00;36;31;23
Speaker 1
Going to say.
00;36;31;26 - 00;36;32;08
Speaker 3
A zoo.
00;36;32;09 - 00;36;40;24
Speaker 1
Why they go hard from 3 to 4 trying to just go do that. You're at least with three. I feel like you can play some zone defense, go through the.
00;36;40;24 - 00;36;42;13
Speaker 2
Airport with four kids.
00;36;42;16 - 00;36;43;06
Speaker 1
In the.
00;36;43;08 - 00;36;46;11
Speaker 2
Air is just looking at you like, my, what is this.
00;36;46;11 - 00;36;51;07
Speaker 1
Person thinking that they should have like a separate TSA or for just like this.
00;36;51;08 - 00;36;56;13
Speaker 2
And like the kids will be like one of. The kids will be like crying on the plane or something they like.
00;36;56;16 - 00;37;11;16
Speaker 3
I know part of it is just that we had him so close. I mean, I think there's I've had plenty of parents told me, like, once you're over two, it's just all the same. But then I look at their families and they space time out by four years, you know, it's.
00;37;11;20 - 00;37;13;08
Speaker 1
Like so yeah, it's it's not.
00;37;13;08 - 00;37;20;23
Speaker 3
Always like our oldest is just starting to embrace the responsibility of taking care of her siblings. And sometimes she does a great job, and sometimes she is.
00;37;20;25 - 00;37;25;04
Speaker 1
So you're all this is a daughter then? Yeah, she's so she can do the second mom then at some point hopefully.
00;37;25;04 - 00;37;29;27
Speaker 3
Yeah. And she's yeah, she's super ambitious, but she's still wild and crazy and.
00;37;29;29 - 00;37;32;06
Speaker 2
And she said, yeah.
00;37;32;09 - 00;37;33;01
Speaker 3
She's also.
00;37;33;02 - 00;37;45;09
Speaker 2
Almost seven. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean all those ages are so fun in different ways too, but it is just, I mean I don't my at least my house like I, Yeah, it's chaos.
00;37;45;11 - 00;37;47;09
Speaker 1
It's, yes.
00;37;47;12 - 00;37;55;16
Speaker 3
And it's if I tell, if I tell my wife I'm going to be home at 520 and I show up at 550, that's a poor choice.
00;37;55;18 - 00;38;12;00
Speaker 2
Thankfully, I always run on time. No, no, I did that too, yesterday, actually. I was like, I think at home. I then get home to like 630 and she did. She's awesome. But she like, put like this whole, like, put lockers into her closet.
00;38;12;00 - 00;38;13;08
Speaker 3
She stay at home. Yeah.
00;38;13;09 - 00;38;22;18
Speaker 2
Yeah. About and she put all like these lockers in for the kids and had it all neat and she's like sent me the picture, she's like check out the closets. They look amazing. The rest of the.
00;38;22;18 - 00;38;26;25
Speaker 1
House is a disaster, she said. And I just like.
00;38;26;28 - 00;38;37;09
Speaker 2
But bless her heart, because I don't know, I, I couldn't do running the family all day and then, like, putting that to. I'm like, your different minds. Yeah.
00;38;37;11 - 00;38;43;01
Speaker 3
Makes us my wife is amazing. Sometimes she does. When I do get home, she wants to, you know, just like, go for a walk.
00;38;43;01 - 00;38;48;07
Speaker 1
And can you be able to do about that for you in 20 minutes? Yeah.
00;38;48;08 - 00;39;12;23
Speaker 2
Because it's just such an and it is such an intensity that it's like. Yeah, like you notice like when you're around somebody that's, you know, maybe in their 70 years or older, like they, when they're around it, you can just with the buzz and the noise and the intensity, like they're exhausted, just like being around it and they're not even necessarily having to like, tame them or carry them or change them or this.
00;39;12;25 - 00;39;14;25
Speaker 2
And they just like you can just see it on their face.
00;39;14;28 - 00;39;16;07
Speaker 1
Like at this time of year.
00;39;16;07 - 00;39;17;13
Speaker 2
I got to go.
00;39;17;16 - 00;39;19;03
Speaker 1
I got to get out.
00;39;19;06 - 00;39;20;22
Speaker 3
Yeah. Kids are. Yeah.
00;39;20;24 - 00;39;25;08
Speaker 2
Do you have a lot of family in town. Yeah. To help and stuff too or.
00;39;25;10 - 00;39;34;27
Speaker 3
Yeah. Now. Yeah. My parents travel a lot. My whole wife's family is, is not in there. Not in the area. We're from New Jersey. really? So, yeah.
00;39;35;01 - 00;39;36;01
Speaker 2
She ended up here.
00;39;36;04 - 00;39;51;12
Speaker 3
Her we her, her half. Her family's from Kalamazoo. Her mom grew up in Kalamazoo, so her grandma was in Kalamazoo. She was actually thinking about moving to Kalamazoo area right when we started dating. So she actually delayed it. She didn't want to.
00;39;51;15 - 00;39;56;00
Speaker 2
There would have been a big mistake.
00;39;56;03 - 00;40;00;20
Speaker 3
She did live in Kalamazoo for like a year with her grandma, and then we got married. So.
00;40;00;22 - 00;40;04;10
Speaker 2
Wow. And how old were you guys when you got married?
00;40;04;13 - 00;40;06;12
Speaker 3
22.
00;40;06;15 - 00;40;11;18
Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah, man. Yeah, you just go for. I love it.
00;40;11;21 - 00;40;13;05
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;40;13;07 - 00;40;38;00
Speaker 2
You know, in our eyes, I love it. That's amazing. I'm. I think I was. I didn't graduate. I didn't go to college. I was 21 playing hockey and then, like, 20 for, like, 25. I think I married 25 or 26 an instrument. And that was the dumbest thing you could ever done, was like, have your first kid in, like your first or second year of commercial real estate brokerage.
00;40;38;02 - 00;40;40;12
Speaker 1
When you're coming out here, if you any.
00;40;40;12 - 00;40;46;28
Speaker 2
Money, you're just losing money. If you really do like the you, you're like, you should be working a minimum wage job and you would have done better.
00;40;46;28 - 00;40;47;12
Speaker 1
Just about.
00;40;47;12 - 00;40;57;24
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, exactly half as fun. And then now for like now you guys are still doing flipping homes, obviously. Right.
00;40;57;25 - 00;41;01;26
Speaker 3
Flipping is, is 95% of what we do and I.
00;41;01;26 - 00;41;15;09
Speaker 2
Saw like you're doing the Airbnb but I'm like we talked about this there's another podcast that Chris had found that you're on in 2020 and it said you were flipping. I think it said like 30 homes a year or something. How many homes are you guys flipping now?
00;41;15;13 - 00;41;21;05
Speaker 3
Our goal was to do 180 homes this year. I think we're cruising for about 145. How are you.
00;41;21;07 - 00;41;23;12
Speaker 2
Getting the how are you finding that?
00;41;23;15 - 00;41;24;19
Speaker 1
Yeah, what do you lose?
00;41;24;19 - 00;41;27;09
Speaker 2
So many questions on this. And so.
00;41;27;09 - 00;41;52;03
Speaker 3
I mean, it's we have we have a very good system and a very good team. 50% of our leads, 50% of our closed purchases come from wholesalers, 30% come from our own marketing. We run we're spending 30, 35 grand a month right now. And our own marketing, which is mailers, SEO and.
00;41;52;05 - 00;41;57;18
Speaker 2
What, what are you saying? Buy cash. Pay cash for homes, quick clothes is like.
00;41;57;18 - 00;42;04;18
Speaker 3
We've got a couple of websites. I mean, you look up, Calvin buys houses dot com and the Yeah you'll see the.
00;42;04;20 - 00;42;10;08
Speaker 2
So you're just pushing that I'll Facebook Instagram are you.
00;42;10;10 - 00;42;12;04
Speaker 3
Doing Facebook and Instagram just just.
00;42;12;07 - 00;42;12;28
Speaker 2
Just to.
00;42;12;28 - 00;42;13;15
Speaker 3
Google.
00;42;13;15 - 00;42;24;10
Speaker 2
Yeah because that's where you're going to go you know they're going to chase homes quick and Yeah. What what do you find the most success like as far as like conversion.
00;42;24;13 - 00;42;29;10
Speaker 3
Which media like right now? I would say our mailers are doing pretty good.
00;42;29;10 - 00;42;38;14
Speaker 2
I always hear the mailers are a almost seems like anybody I said it conversion wise is like the mailers for whatever reason get the most.
00;42;38;16 - 00;42;48;17
Speaker 3
It can take multiple hits like right now on one does one round one batch. We're sending out our our third mailer and to the same list of addresses and that seems to be.
00;42;48;17 - 00;42;56;10
Speaker 2
And are you targeting are you targeting groups that are like behind going through the public record, like, hey, they're behind, blah, blah, blah?
00;42;56;10 - 00;43;13;08
Speaker 3
Yeah. The classic thing is always to just build your data set based on. So I mean, there's so many things, but like if I could build my data set based on, based on not, you know, or the tax address is not that resident So your, your owners are we target out-of-state owners and we got and we want to make sure they have equity in their home.
00;43;13;08 - 00;43;32;04
Speaker 3
We don't want to be chasing a home that was just purchased where they have no equity. So and then of course, the classic ones always come in to kind of search you out are all the the messy situations. I mean, I you know, we've bought in the last month or last two months, we bought three houses that were suicides.
00;43;32;07 - 00;43;58;20
Speaker 3
We've bought, you know, there's always, you know, whether it's divorces or estates all this life drama that that, you know, occurs. There's so many stories and so many really bad stories. So a lot of times you're you're helping people out. I mean, one, I feel like I just overpaid for one yesterday or I just like I really just wanted to help prevent it would have gone to foreclosure.
00;43;58;22 - 00;43;59;21
Speaker 3
How are you?
00;43;59;23 - 00;44;04;23
Speaker 2
But are you so are you dealing with the seller directly then? I mean, like I just on.
00;44;04;23 - 00;44;05;29
Speaker 3
Our own, on our own, our.
00;44;06;02 - 00;44;07;05
Speaker 2
Homes, it comes in.
00;44;07;05 - 00;44;28;03
Speaker 3
Are you on our own marketing? Yes. We're dealing with those situations through wholesalers. We're kind of like sheltered from it because they're the ones having so so the wholesalers, the ones, you know, I mean, they're they're they're doing a lot of signs like they're bird dogs. Yeah, they're the corner signs. They're they're driving for dollars. They're, yeah, they're, they're cold calling.
00;44;28;03 - 00;44;41;20
Speaker 2
And then for people that don't know, they're like they might they, some people do, but not some of them don't have the money or the knowledge or the expertise to then buy, flip or buy, hold, rent, clean it up to turn it into a rental house.
00;44;41;20 - 00;44;44;29
Speaker 3
Are there wholesalers that say, we buy your home for cash?
00;44;45;00 - 00;44;45;15
Speaker 2
They're selling.
00;44;45;15 - 00;44;47;01
Speaker 3
It. Yeah, the cash to buy the home.
00;44;47;03 - 00;44;48;03
Speaker 2
They're selling it to you?
00;44;48;03 - 00;44;53;08
Speaker 3
Yeah, they're saying, yeah, I am paying them 5 to 50 grand for their contract.
00;44;53;09 - 00;45;07;16
Speaker 2
How much time do they usually put on? Like because I just don't do a ton of residential like Sean would obviously know this, but like on the wholesale, like how long of a contract is a standard inspection period? Like I'm the RA residential farm I think is like ten or 15 days.
00;45;07;19 - 00;45;09;28
Speaker 3
They usually do ten days on their inspection period.
00;45;10;01 - 00;45;17;01
Speaker 2
So they, they do the same thing. So they're as soon as they get in and they call and you or I committed to one.
00;45;17;03 - 00;45;27;06
Speaker 3
Yeah, I committed to one this morning like we're never going to be able to or if I some of these wholesale deals I go I'll if I don't commit to it within 5 minutes, you know, being ten, the next guy gets it.
00;45;27;11 - 00;45;28;11
Speaker 2
So you probably.
00;45;28;13 - 00;45;53;18
Speaker 3
Get to see I mean this guy just committed to. Yeah, yeah. Might cost me a lot of money. I went on vacation. I want to vacation last week. I lost a smoking deal because I was, you know, so as I'm making my kids breakfast at the camper, I just lost 50 grand, but. So, no, it. Yeah, it's so the wholesale, the deal I committed to this morning, like we would love to go see it and the wholesaler would let us go see it if nobody else was interested.
00;45;53;21 - 00;45;56;12
Speaker 3
But, but he knows he's going to get an offer.
00;45;56;14 - 00;46;14;00
Speaker 2
That's insane. So his bird dog that found it under contract at a good price. How much? How much it is he obviously it depends on where his buy rate is. But I mean, what's what kind of margin are they? Is it all over the place for those guys like you.
00;46;14;02 - 00;46;29;16
Speaker 3
Guys like it usually costs those guys 3 to 7 grand per lead somewhere like per. Yeah. But down they spend all their marketing pay their assistant pay their cold collars like 3 to 3 or seven grand is a pretty normal cost to acquire per lead. And that's what we're experiencing too. On our own marketing.
00;46;29;18 - 00;46;30;22
Speaker 2
3 to 7 grand.
00;46;30;22 - 00;46;31;25
Speaker 3
Is their like their costs.
00;46;32;01 - 00;46;34;18
Speaker 2
So they're usually on a May 2015, they're.
00;46;34;18 - 00;46;40;16
Speaker 3
Usually chasing that 10 to 20 range, got paid to 70 the other day, which I think was just abusive.
00;46;40;24 - 00;46;41;02
Speaker 1
But it's.
00;46;41;02 - 00;46;42;26
Speaker 3
Still to the to the seller.
00;46;43;00 - 00;46;45;29
Speaker 2
It's abusive to the day. Yeah, that's a good point.
00;46;46;01 - 00;46;59;11
Speaker 3
it's great point. I never would have offered that. We bought a house for 160. I never would have offered that lady 90 grand, even if she said she wanted 90 grand for the house. You know, I couldn't do it. Like they they flat out robbed her.
00;46;59;14 - 00;47;00;17
Speaker 1
So that so.
00;47;00;18 - 00;47;12;06
Speaker 2
That's interesting because like in the in the real estate game, I mean it is so cutthroat too. And then to go back to those Christian values and everything like you probably do have a lot of those calls, a lot of time where you're like, wow, I we.
00;47;12;07 - 00;47;23;15
Speaker 3
Got a really good deal the other day. And that's where I have to like, say, well, you know, am I that guy or am I actually get up where they set a really low number. But it was also very like messy situation where.
00;47;23;15 - 00;47;25;01
Speaker 2
Like they needed our call, you.
00;47;25;01 - 00;47;40;12
Speaker 3
Know, and we knew that failed like they had the deed to the house. But other family members, like there's a lot of like family contingent contention and a family member had been living there and like one, we didn't know what family member was going to like come back and see a squatter in the house assassinated. Yeah, No.
00;47;40;17 - 00;48;05;19
Speaker 2
Okay. I just got a call. The one from Ada. I'll talk to you about it afterwards. It's a very interesting her Unwerth. I haven't even talked to Sean about it, but it's, it was exactly that situation. One family member living in the house, the brothers, sisters, all fighting. Yeah. Who has the actual rates? Liz? Pendants filed on the house or the deed and it's a massive mess and a lot of the time and I don't know if you listened.
00;48;05;21 - 00;48;39;07
Speaker 2
I was listening. Dave Ramsey, drove home yesterday and like, this guy, you know, he battled through something. He could stay in the home, but he battling through some health issues and he's like has 100 grand in equity in his house. And Dave's like, honestly, like instead of going through this repayment program per the judge and everything, he's like, just sell the house and start over fresh and go even if you rent for a little bit and then buy just to get that tragedy back like off of your back and start fresh.
00;48;39;07 - 00;48;46;12
Speaker 2
And so that I mean, that's cool that you get to give that to people, but you do need to make money too.
00;48;46;15 - 00;49;03;29
Speaker 3
The great thing about the market we're in is that almost every seller has the equity in their home. So yeah, they put their life into a really bad situation. well, we cash them out, they walk away with a paycheck. I mean, I've, we've, I've seen a lady, like, walk out, like, shaking like this is the most money I've ever held by hand, ever.
00;49;04;01 - 00;49;12;25
Speaker 3
And we got to be on that house, you know. But she like, yeah, her life they starts and she's got a 40 grand as a good foundation of everything she had at home.
00;49;13;02 - 00;49;37;10
Speaker 1
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00;49;37;10 - 00;49;43;09
Speaker 1
All seasons living is now in Hudsonville visit live all seasons dot com.
00;49;43;11 - 00;49;56;13
Speaker 3
So it's it's good I mean yeah if the market if it when the market turns and now we're dealing with more foreclosures again and that's all I know you're going to have people losing their homes.
00;49;56;18 - 00;50;06;24
Speaker 1
So when it says on your website West Michigan how far do you go outside of Grand Rapids and or do you go like Traverse City, like Kalamazoo, like the Niles area then are most grand? So.
00;50;06;26 - 00;50;26;22
Speaker 3
Yeah, unfortunately, we have had to cut our deal. Yeah, we used to be all northeast east town and I'm not sure why I did that. Now our labor is everywhere, so we've got labor in Ionia, we've got labor in Kalamazoo. So yeah, we don't go to Traverse City, but we go to, you know, we'll do like a lot of Cedar Springs, even up to Big rapids.
00;50;26;22 - 00;50;46;28
Speaker 3
We'll do we don't do a lot in Muskegon for some reason. We do. We always have a flip gone and gotten Haven in Holland. And so what I like is we've been somehow doing all this on a bunch of Jenison Green, Jenison Grandville Hudsonville area, which would never have been able to get crazy. Crazy, right? Yeah, that's a good one.
00;50;47;02 - 00;50;55;14
Speaker 3
So anytime we get a home that is this is great. So but yeah, so we're just, we're just all over now. So we're Ionia, Allegan.
00;50;55;14 - 00;51;06;13
Speaker 2
How do you even know if you're getting a good deal on a house? Because, like, you're getting this call from the wholesaler, you know, he's marking it up over what he has, and then you, you've.
00;51;06;13 - 00;51;13;29
Speaker 3
Got a fantastic team of five guys in the office. So Kyle Kyle Westray is our residential agent. He's like, Yeah, he's like 25 years old.
00;51;13;29 - 00;51;17;11
Speaker 2
And what's the name of his group again? Is it so.
00;51;17;13 - 00;51;18;05
Speaker 1
Kyle, you own.
00;51;18;05 - 00;51;19;06
Speaker 2
That brokerage?
00;51;19;06 - 00;51;41;25
Speaker 3
No. So Houston. Houston. Moyer yeah. Place Okay. Management and that and he manages a lot of our rentals too. So he has a real estate. He has a, he has a brokerage. So Kyle is, is under his brokerage, but Kyle works essentially full time for the flipping company, know some of his deals on the side. But I mean, Kyle, you know we our mantra that we always got we got sell three homes a week.
00;51;41;25 - 00;51;55;01
Speaker 3
We got to buy three homes a week. So so Kyle is he is selling those numbers. Kyle has Kyle does more volume in transactions than any other agent in West Michigan I believe at 20.
00;51;55;01 - 00;51;56;11
Speaker 1
Five or 20. Yeah. Yeah.
00;51;56;11 - 00;52;00;17
Speaker 3
And sides and he doesn't have a transaction coordinator or anything so it's it's.
00;52;00;20 - 00;52;10;10
Speaker 2
And and like with what you guys are dealing with, it's not, it's never the fun transaction because there is leans from here or there.
00;52;10;10 - 00;52;12;26
Speaker 3
Or so Kyle's mostly on the sale side Okay.
00;52;13;03 - 00;52;18;29
Speaker 2
So game the back side it's all you cleaned up at that point for a so so bad for Gabe.
00;52;19;06 - 00;52;21;16
Speaker 1
Because he's a liar agent games are.
00;52;21;16 - 00;52;22;27
Speaker 3
All Gabe Gabriel.
00;52;23;00 - 00;52;24;15
Speaker 2
They go to the.
00;52;24;15 - 00;52;34;07
Speaker 3
Same so she she if you look up Gabe buys houses that's another that that's that's her version of the same site.
00;52;34;09 - 00;52;36;21
Speaker 2
So that's her own business or is that.
00;52;36;27 - 00;52;55;16
Speaker 3
She works full time for us. She used to work for one of our competitors and so she runs all of the all of the mailers. So yeah, so, so she she's the one dealing with all of the and then Iron Gate title is the one that it would deal with all of the. Yeah. Like the, the title.
00;52;55;23 - 00;53;05;16
Speaker 2
Which you has. So you guys have I mean they're right in your they have a is is that a multi branch or is that just a single. And that's the word Yeah.
00;53;05;18 - 00;53;23;23
Speaker 3
Iron gate has a standalone office and the playing field office so we own the building that they're our offices are on the top floor of the playing field. Yep. Building there on the, the bottom floor. So they lease that suite from us, which is amazing because every time. So David signs all the deals for buying and selling and so it takes him, you know, 3 minutes closer.
00;53;23;25 - 00;53;24;23
Speaker 3
You know.
00;53;24;26 - 00;53;36;15
Speaker 2
It's not okay as is. And so they're doing what, ABA or something but they're in your office and closing. They're happy as can be then. I mean yeah I.
00;53;36;15 - 00;53;37;03
Speaker 1
Mean we got.
00;53;37;05 - 00;53;43;01
Speaker 3
There's, there's a few business relationships there where, you know, we financially benefit because of the deals.
00;53;43;01 - 00;53;44;04
Speaker 1
Which is you should.
00;53;44;04 - 00;53;47;22
Speaker 3
But yeah, I'm sure they'll enjoy our business.
00;53;47;27 - 00;53;54;24
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right, Right. And then, yeah, you guys just moved in. How long was that to spend? Two or three years. All.
00;53;54;26 - 00;53;57;04
Speaker 3
We've been in that office for almost two years.
00;53;57;06 - 00;53;57;25
Speaker 2
They're out by.
00;53;57;25 - 00;54;00;11
Speaker 1
You. Yeah. Plainfield. And what?
00;54;00;13 - 00;54;05;13
Speaker 3
It's. It's Westwood 1884. Westwood. Our address. So Plainfield, Huntzberger.
00;54;05;17 - 00;54;06;07
Speaker 1
Okay.
00;54;06;09 - 00;54;25;14
Speaker 2
So we had that salon listed next to you. Remember that? Like a year ago or so, I was literally right next door to these guys and they've you guys have cleaned the building up. And I think I think the new owner of the salon has been cleaning their place up to like exterior parking lot and stuff. How's it look?
00;54;25;16 - 00;54;27;24
Speaker 2
Good. Good. Are they busy?
00;54;27;27 - 00;54;32;27
Speaker 3
I think so. I mean, we always get people coming in back, but that stupid signage.
00;54;32;29 - 00;54;34;16
Speaker 1
yeah, because this is like.
00;54;34;23 - 00;54;40;04
Speaker 3
Right on our corner. So. Yeah, yeah. So we all always get their customers walking in our building.
00;54;40;08 - 00;54;46;12
Speaker 2
That's great. Now that's okay. So you're doing the how many of your 148 flips this year.
00;54;46;13 - 00;54;48;29
Speaker 3
That's what it should in a project mean. Yeah.
00;54;49;01 - 00;55;03;21
Speaker 2
How many how much of us like actual employed staff do you have on the flip portion of carpet paint, roofs, windows. How in-depth are you going on? Like, I guess that's a Yeah.
00;55;03;21 - 00;55;04;02
Speaker 3
I would say.
00;55;04;02 - 00;55;04;21
Speaker 2
It like I.
00;55;04;21 - 00;55;22;21
Speaker 3
Would say we have any given on any given day. There's probably 100 guys in the field working on our houses, all of them, only 20 of them are payroll staff. 40 are like contractors that work full time for us and 40 are like plumbers, carpenters, painters that.
00;55;22;21 - 00;55;23;18
Speaker 2
Work almost.
00;55;23;18 - 00;55;24;14
Speaker 1
Exclusively, not.
00;55;24;15 - 00;55;31;17
Speaker 3
Exclusively, but probably in the 40 to 70% range. You know, where we're a huge part of their business.
00;55;31;19 - 00;55;35;24
Speaker 2
And the guys that are on your staff, are they carpenters? Are they like some.
00;55;35;28 - 00;55;36;15
Speaker 3
Of our payroll?
00;55;36;16 - 00;55;37;06
Speaker 2
Super?
00;55;37;13 - 00;55;51;04
Speaker 3
Yeah, most of our payroll guys are either like flip managed like their project managers and they're like they're kitchen and bath installation slash light electrical plumbing, you know, that sort of thing.
00;55;51;07 - 00;56;05;19
Speaker 2
So and anyhow, this is not in an offensive way, but I mean, like, how are you managing to make sure that like even like the people are licensed appropriately or they're doing the work where.
00;56;05;23 - 00;56;26;11
Speaker 3
All license work is really done by license, like we all the trades we hire out. So we're like, we'll install light fixtures. But beyond that, all the trades were our hired out and we have phenomenal like, I mean, our, our I don't want to give his name out because I don't want him I don't he doesn't need any more business.
00;56;26;14 - 00;56;32;09
Speaker 3
No he's he's like, have you ever seen a plumber that runs from his truck and runs upstairs?
00;56;32;12 - 00;56;33;07
Speaker 1
No, no, this.
00;56;33;07 - 00;56;38;05
Speaker 3
Is well, he's the only one. So he builds us like, you know, reasonably like a normal.
00;56;38;05 - 00;56;40;26
Speaker 2
Resident up after himself. You tell me, vacuums.
00;56;40;29 - 00;56;47;10
Speaker 1
So I want his name. Yeah, I.
00;56;47;12 - 00;57;07;22
Speaker 3
Know. He's. He's amazing. So we have so those types of vendors, you know, really make our business. And so I just Yeah. And, and to have guys like he's getting he's getting quite busy now but just to have an H guy plumber electrician that is almost on call for the emergency or the quick and see.
00;57;07;25 - 00;57;19;06
Speaker 2
Who are you guys have any issues with. Like I'm on the commercial side like I mean electrical components are like a year I'll call it like are you guys seeing the same type of thing on the residential side as far as like, I.
00;57;19;06 - 00;57;40;19
Speaker 3
Think residential is easier on all of our supply chain type issues are largely gone. Okay, So we're yeah, we're, we'll start things now. So like Lowe's like we work with in the Northeast. So we'll see. Like I don't know what our spending I want to say I could don't call me in this. I want to say we'll spend like 4 to $5 million Lowe's this year.
00;57;40;20 - 00;57;46;01
Speaker 2
Did you must have and one of the lowest points or whatever like yeah man And.
00;57;46;03 - 00;57;46;09
Speaker 1
No.
00;57;46;09 - 00;58;03;14
Speaker 3
We use their pro programs that we I mean we probably get 20 to 25% off every single thing, you know. So in order well order some things come back so we get their pro pricing, I mean like we do a lot of butcher block countertop so like one time butcher block slabs are like 250 for an eight foot slab.
00;58;03;14 - 00;58;14;05
Speaker 3
One time it came back at like 86 bucks, you know, for a slap on that house. So, like, how many of these can we order at this? And they let us it was a close out, but they still let us order like 150 slab.
00;58;14;05 - 00;58;18;05
Speaker 1
So yeah so so yeah, I was going to say you're aware of the over.
00;58;18;08 - 00;58;19;09
Speaker 3
Yeah. So we are starting.
00;58;19;09 - 00;58;23;19
Speaker 1
To just sell your house. Yeah. Yeah. We got to stop that. Yes. Yeah.
00;58;23;25 - 00;58;40;11
Speaker 3
Getting too out of control. I got guys rolling my driveway every day and, and, but we so just the other day we like were able to work an appliance deal with Lowe's. So we're buying like 30 appliances at a time. So, like, we're getting stainless, you know, decent stainless fridges for, you know.
00;58;40;13 - 00;58;57;01
Speaker 2
90% and turn on the buy. Like, hey, if you're in a competitive situation, like you probably can't pay five, ten grand more than the next flipper or whoever because your pricing right here, your scale is so large. So your pricing comes down on a lot of things. Yeah.
00;58;57;01 - 00;58;58;02
Speaker 1
So we yeah, we probably.
00;58;58;02 - 00;58;58;18
Speaker 3
Have more.
00;58;58;25 - 00;58;59;16
Speaker 2
That way.
00;58;59;19 - 00;59;17;08
Speaker 3
On our competition. We probably have more overhead costs just because of our office team. Yeah, and we probably have slightly higher labor costs because I think we churn out a more premium flip product and we turn out a better product. We have to pay more for that product.
00;59;17;10 - 00;59;29;07
Speaker 2
How many of the flips are you of these 148, How many of them have you been in like start and finish clothes? Like, are you seeing all of them at this point? It's got to be impossible to.
00;59;29;13 - 00;59;31;18
Speaker 3
I see every flip at least like three times.
00;59;31;20 - 00;59;34;07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Wow. So, so you walk through it before that?
00;59;34;07 - 00;59;40;10
Speaker 3
I usually I usually hit like five or six job sites a day shift very quickly. Just Yeah.
00;59;40;13 - 00;59;52;20
Speaker 2
So sometimes I see this this is or are you making calls as far as are you not going this in-depth on the flip of like get to move this, open this whole wall up and open the kitchen.
00;59;52;20 - 01;00;18;13
Speaker 3
Yeah. I walk through I walk with the project manager. So the thing I've given up like, recently is pretty much all vendor communication. So like, I pretty much get to so you could say I manage all I really I've got some great project managers that have been with me all for like two or three or four years. And, and so I, I walk that first house usually it's about at that first appointment is about an hour and we just go through every room and we're so I mean, we don't change paint colors.
01;00;18;13 - 01;00;39;08
Speaker 3
We don't change like doorknobs, like it's the same thing over and over again. We know what kitchen we're getting. You know, if we even have it's go so far. We have like a standard exterior color. So like, unless the house has something that really deserves in a designer, they know it's called Urbane bronze from Sherwin-Williams.
01;00;39;15 - 01;00;42;24
Speaker 2
No, I'm just kidding. Right. Lower. You probably.
01;00;42;24 - 01;00;45;17
Speaker 3
Know that. That's the exterior color for the house. Like. So you're.
01;00;45;17 - 01;00;47;16
Speaker 2
Just trying to limit decision.
01;00;47;16 - 01;00;51;08
Speaker 3
It. Most of the decisions are already made. There are many designers.
01;00;51;11 - 01;01;03;15
Speaker 2
That probably help so much. Yeah. And not and not overdoing it too, right? I mean, that's because you don't want to bring it too far and like, you don't want to be the most expensive house in the neighborhood all of a sudden neither.
01;01;03;15 - 01;01;14;28
Speaker 3
Yeah. A lot of times we are, especially in the little stuff we love buying 800 1100 square foot homes. We just love them and and sell them for, you know, that that.
01;01;15;00 - 01;01;16;03
Speaker 2
You know, they're going to.
01;01;16;10 - 01;01;30;08
Speaker 3
52 to 80 that start that standard starter home. We're able to like usually sell it for substantially over comps in the neighborhood because it's so hard. I mean, all these builders are out there building, what, 500 k plus.
01;01;30;12 - 01;01;31;02
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;01;31;05 - 01;01;36;24
Speaker 3
It's very hard to get a $260,000 child in house no matter what the sizes.
01;01;36;25 - 01;01;53;04
Speaker 2
And a lot of people to on that starter home range like they don't have the cash to go out and do all this stuff and pay these people so like to have the finished product and be able to just finance it in at the bank is actually a blessing to them too. Yeah, they would prefer that. Yeah.
01;01;53;04 - 01;02;16;09
Speaker 3
Like furnaces for example. I mean if we get a house and we've got a working usually 20 year old 25 year furnace, I mean for that person to call a chef's ma or whoever or whatever company like they're going to pay, I don't know what a furnace like seven, seven and ten grand. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas we're like we're 2400, 2800 for a furnace, you know, because.
01;02;16;12 - 01;02;17;18
Speaker 2
There's so many. Yeah.
01;02;17;18 - 01;02;44;18
Speaker 3
And we're putting a roof, you know, we're put and we're using a quality roofer, you know, who is licensed, does exceptional work and he is giving us massive volume discounts on roofs where to the point where that little, you know, one Right. what was it on 43rd Street not far from here. That one like that, that roof was like six grand, you know, on this little 900 square foot branch.
01;02;44;18 - 01;02;57;05
Speaker 3
Like that roof would feed the bids. Yeah, the bids they beginning would be like 12 to 16 grand. So. Yeah. So they're able we're able to, you know, make all those volume decisions and they're, they're able to wrap that all up into their financing.
01;02;57;11 - 01;03;04;05
Speaker 1
What, what's your typical turnaround time. I know every house is probably different, but from like close to okay we're selling it removed on.
01;03;04;10 - 01;03;04;19
Speaker 2
Three.
01;03;04;24 - 01;03;05;25
Speaker 3
Four and a half months.
01;03;05;28 - 01;03;07;14
Speaker 1
For half months.
01;03;07;17 - 01;03;08;25
Speaker 3
I wish that time was shorter.
01;03;09;02 - 01;03;11;21
Speaker 2
So that's that's sort of how.
01;03;11;21 - 01;03;14;01
Speaker 3
One's only allows for about a six week job that's.
01;03;14;01 - 01;03;17;23
Speaker 2
So fast because you're by and then that down because you see.
01;03;17;23 - 01;03;39;04
Speaker 3
This possession period. Yeah like sure we have a lot of possession periods. Yeah that's, that's a huge we get a lot of like for example with a lot of older people who want to move into a condo and a condo market super competitive. So they keep losing out on all of these contingent offers. So finally they come to us and say, Hey, we want to we don't know when we're going to move, but we want 90 days of possession.
01;03;39;04 - 01;03;41;03
Speaker 3
Can you buy our house with, you know.
01;03;41;03 - 01;03;41;27
Speaker 2
And then.
01;03;42;00 - 01;04;04;08
Speaker 3
So we do it. So we buy their home at a slight discount for 90 days of rent free possession. So by holding costs and I'm holding all these homes, you know, that I can't do anything with until I get that possession. So so that's a very so that's why our average I think if it wasn't for possession, our average whole time would be more like three months from purchase to service to sale.
01;04;04;08 - 01;04;13;27
Speaker 2
And what about what about that? I mean, are you guys going to the bank on all these at this point? Are you using a lot of cash? Are you using lines of credit and then paying them off?
01;04;14;01 - 01;04;34;03
Speaker 3
There's no bank debt. I hate dealing with banks on this. The short term stuff, they're not even any hard money lenders. It's all private funding. So in about 20, I think we're 2122 investors now. And it's as simple as a no and mortgage for every house. So it's like we we you know, one of our houses, like I said, work by three weeks.
01;04;34;03 - 01;04;50;20
Speaker 3
All three week. That's kind of that needs to be our main draws our motto as well for just the replacement of funds. So when we're so we said that like today, David was sending payoffs to investors, they sends a pay off and on email. Here's your payoff, here's your principal check, your interest check, and then here's an email with the next house.
01;04;50;20 - 01;05;04;04
Speaker 3
Do you want roll? You know, do you want to collect your funds or do you on a roll over? Yeah. So so you always, always cutting that interest check just keeps it clean for the the books. But if they want to roll that principle, you know, into the next deal, they can sell.
01;05;04;07 - 01;05;09;01
Speaker 2
But not like you're not going to the process of 1031 for them on that.
01;05;09;03 - 01;05;17;29
Speaker 3
So there's no. 1031 No, no. So they're, they're just some insurance are just they're just a bank. They just Yeah, they're just a lender. Yeah. Yeah.
01;05;18;02 - 01;05;24;11
Speaker 2
Are you guys doing, are you doing car sex and stuff on that. And single family stuff. I mean is it.
01;05;24;13 - 01;05;28;02
Speaker 3
Just, just car sex on the, on the commercial. Of course.
01;05;28;02 - 01;05;34;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, of course on the commercial. But not on the, the smaller residential stuff and not worth the time effort and Yeah.
01;05;34;08 - 01;05;39;21
Speaker 3
Yeah. We looked at it and we have a lot of single family rentals and stuff too, and the math just doesn't make sense on.
01;05;39;24 - 01;06;01;12
Speaker 2
So and, and we've, we've gotten into some of the hard money lending too. I'm sure you get like for some of the fix and flip guys that are out there coming to us to raise funds private money that but I would assume like you guys have to be getting hit up for that then all the time from people or you like we'd rather do it ourselves anyways.
01;06;01;15 - 01;06;07;25
Speaker 3
For us, being a lender is correct. We do get hit up for that, but it doesn't really make sense.
01;06;07;25 - 01;06;13;04
Speaker 2
It's not worth it for you because you'd make more money just in finding your own deal.
01;06;13;04 - 01;06;29;21
Speaker 3
I mean, I think hard money, I don't know. I can't I think hard money right now, like the best deal you're going get out there, I want to say, is like two points and 10%. You know, most of what we're paying out to investors is like eight, nine or 10%. So we're slightly better than your average hard money lender, but it still doesn't make, you know.
01;06;29;21 - 01;06;45;09
Speaker 3
Yeah, it doesn't. And for our biggest we need a lot of cash in our business because we only borrow like the purchase price are less than the purchase price. So at any given time. So we might have we might have $10 million worth of purchase flips in our holdings.
01;06;45;11 - 01;06;45;21
Speaker 2
But it's.
01;06;45;21 - 01;06;46;27
Speaker 3
All investor cash.
01;06;47;02 - 01;06;48;21
Speaker 2
Own free and clear how.
01;06;48;27 - 01;06;51;22
Speaker 3
You know, when you got a balance in all the rehab and.
01;06;51;22 - 01;06;54;03
Speaker 2
All that you got another 50,000 another.
01;06;54;03 - 01;07;08;25
Speaker 3
So that's kind and that's kind of our safety net that's our own funds that's you know based on the profits that that's how the business has grown. And that's kind of our our security. It's also the security to our investors that. Were your investors borrowing their rehab funds to.
01;07;08;26 - 01;07;28;00
Speaker 2
Your investors, Is getting a preferred 8% return on their money when it's with you. Yeah. And then but there's no like they're not even caring or to play with the upside or anything of points on the back or it's just then I get the opportunity to roll to the next one and they're happy as can be what they Yeah.
01;07;28;00 - 01;07;39;14
Speaker 3
So we yeah, we've lost investors in the past just based on them wanting to pursue a greater return or greater risk. So most of our investors are, they do not like risk. They they want and you're not.
01;07;39;16 - 01;07;49;05
Speaker 2
You're not getting rich off of an 8% like if you're just loaning out at 8% with like you know it's a wealth preservation almost our slow growth.
01;07;49;08 - 01;07;49;18
Speaker 3
Is just.
01;07;49;19 - 01;07;54;18
Speaker 2
Detection play as opposed to like I'm trying to build up so I can see where.
01;07;54;20 - 01;07;55;22
Speaker 3
You know, I mean CDs.
01;07;55;22 - 01;07;56;20
Speaker 2
Fish.
01;07;56;22 - 01;08;12;11
Speaker 3
Their alternative is like putting the money in the CD 5%. Yeah they're not going to go most of our investors are not going to enjoy going and putting that. If they have 500 grand with us, they do not want to put that five grand in the stock market. They would need to their alternative us would be like a CD or something.
01;08;12;13 - 01;08;15;13
Speaker 3
Yeah, a very secure minority. So 8% is very good.
01;08;15;13 - 01;08;35;02
Speaker 2
And you're seeing all of this sort of like personal guarantees yourself and Yeah. And how many I'm sure was a lot more when you started. And now it's probably because you guys have proven yourself and you found who you like to work with investor wise. I'm sure that pools shrank. Like how many investors did you start with or.
01;08;35;09 - 01;08;41;21
Speaker 3
It's always the last. I mean, five years ago there's probably 12 involved and now there's like 21. 22. Yeah.
01;08;41;24 - 01;08;47;22
Speaker 2
So and it's as easy as a phone call of we need X and Y. Are you on.
01;08;47;24 - 01;08;55;25
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's only me signing the paperwork. So like it's really simple on their end. It's just a matter of Yeah, yeah. Sending and receiving payments.
01;08;55;26 - 01;08;57;23
Speaker 2
And you guys have a real machine, though?
01;08;57;26 - 01;09;11;29
Speaker 3
Yeah, there's a few, you know, we use. We use our local banks, but Chase like I've got a couple of investors in New Jersey and, and, and like so they Yeah, that's, I like to be a national or like have Chase Bank because they have those there in Florida as well so.
01;09;11;29 - 01;09;36;24
Speaker 2
You're taking the money from the investors they're getting their 8% preferred you buy house with that cash and then you're using your own personal cash in your bank accounts to then go do perform the flip paying the interest rate and once you sell the house, paying that all to the and it's pretty simple, but it's I mean, it sounds simple.
01;09;36;24 - 01;09;46;24
Speaker 2
I should say, but like for people that would be listen, I mean that's a machine that because you're I mean you got to be signing stuff all day for it.
01;09;46;24 - 01;09;51;03
Speaker 3
Same thing like the three weeks I signed three notes in mortgages a week for the three purchases.
01;09;51;10 - 01;09;52;06
Speaker 2
Exactly.
01;09;52;09 - 01;09;56;00
Speaker 3
But yeah and yeah, it's, it's very systematized. I mean there.
01;09;56;00 - 01;09;57;22
Speaker 2
Has be otherwise you you would.
01;09;57;22 - 01;10;10;08
Speaker 3
Never Yeah. It's while David has about 300 tasks a day so he he he needs to we're looking at hiring him an assistant because it's Yeah. It's a little out of control so.
01;10;10;11 - 01;10;14;21
Speaker 2
And how big is your internal office staff in five people.
01;10;14;25 - 01;10;15;19
Speaker 3
Five people? Yeah.
01;10;15;20 - 01;10;22;27
Speaker 2
So you David Walker and Gay Gabrielle. Yeah. And what was the.
01;10;22;29 - 01;10;27;13
Speaker 3
Kyle, Kyle. Kyle And then Rob is the systems guy operations.
01;10;27;16 - 01;10;33;07
Speaker 2
And he's just he is doing and making sure the payments are going out to everybody and keeping the books and.
01;10;33;11 - 01;10;52;09
Speaker 3
Yeah, and he's taking a huge lot off my plate by doing all those orders. Now I'm still like, I was still involved in all the purchasing and I do like no purchasing now. So of the, of purchasing all the, the materials, all of our, all of our materials get delivered like our guys don't go and get material that they'll go run to a Lowe's or an ace for something that's like desperately needed.
01;10;52;09 - 01;10;57;21
Speaker 3
But we very much do not like guys spending time at the store. We want them spending time.
01;10;57;23 - 01;10;58;21
Speaker 1
On the site, on the site.
01;10;58;22 - 01;11;12;06
Speaker 2
And do guys have I mean, do you guys like your quote unquote site, supers, large companies, and like, do they have credit cards out there in the field that they're running with? And. Yeah. man, you guys have a machine.
01;11;12;08 - 01;11;14;29
Speaker 1
Thank you so much. I mean, think about.
01;11;15;02 - 01;11;17;17
Speaker 2
All the detail that needs to be tracked and everything.
01;11;17;17 - 01;11;26;06
Speaker 3
And flipping is a simple business. So, I mean, you're you're, you know, everybody needs a house. You know, you buy a house that's a wreck, you fix it up and sell as simple as a business case.
01;11;26;06 - 01;11;26;15
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;11;26;21 - 01;11;33;19
Speaker 2
Are you and then the guy doing the books for you, I mean, is he a CPA or is he just a not paper?
01;11;33;26 - 01;11;51;02
Speaker 3
All our tax accounting done by two different accounting firms. And and so but it's it's fairly simple on the books for you know maybe I shouldn't that it's we've had our complications but yeah each each house is its own.
01;11;51;05 - 01;12;05;14
Speaker 2
Yeah it's on is its own so yeah. Yeah. And then are you buy you're not going as far as setting up new entities for each person. No. So you're doing well called Kelvin Buys Homes LLC. Yeah. So we buying each. Yeah. And then it's falling under the umbrella.
01;12;05;14 - 01;12;14;08
Speaker 3
Yeah. Obviously on the commercial multifamily side. Sure is its own entity. But on the flip side, it's all under a couple of entities. So yeah.
01;12;14;11 - 01;12;17;15
Speaker 2
180 homes this year is the goal.
01;12;17;17 - 01;12;23;16
Speaker 3
It was. There's no way we're going to get 181 5140 would be worst case scenario, 150 would be best case scenario.
01;12;23;17 - 01;12;32;05
Speaker 2
Have you seen your private money? Is the ass going up on that for the prep return with interest rates? I mean, now you're seeing homes at just a time now.
01;12;32;07 - 01;12;52;12
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean nine Yeah, we've we've lost investors. There's a couple of guys we could back to and pay 11% right now that we haven't had to, but we've lost the bulk of their funds because they've been able to get 11 from other. Yeah. Whether it's our competition or whatnot. So Yeah. Was that was that impression.
01;12;52;14 - 01;12;53;12
Speaker 2
Yeah absolutely.
01;12;53;15 - 01;13;02;09
Speaker 1
How's it been dealing with the municipalities when it comes to like getting permits, everything. I hate that none of them are easy delays projects.
01;13;02;09 - 01;13;22;07
Speaker 3
I mean, we, we just love your paint carpet, kitchen, but we love your unpermitted projects. We love dealing with municipalities. I, I this my this might be a rabbit trail here but the I've been buying a ton of land in southeast for I'm a big bo hunter.
01;13;22;12 - 01;13;24;05
Speaker 2
Okay going to say yeah.
01;13;24;08 - 01;13;40;01
Speaker 3
It's super cheap land is super cheap down there like two grand an acre and and like when I want to do my house, I wanted I bought an Amish house down there and I want to do it for like full renovation, add power, add everything looked in the permit. I did nothing. I don't pull anything to do.
01;13;40;01 - 01;13;42;19
Speaker 1
You can just do whatever you want.
01;13;42;21 - 01;13;46;08
Speaker 3
I think I could throw up an apartment complex on my ground and nobody would ask.
01;13;46;10 - 01;13;49;08
Speaker 1
I've heard that Ohio is very, very easy when it comes to. I mean.
01;13;49;12 - 01;13;51;11
Speaker 3
I'm sure it's not all parts of Ohio, but.
01;13;51;13 - 01;13;52;20
Speaker 1
But you see, it's it's funny.
01;13;52;22 - 01;13;57;21
Speaker 3
Like there's people living in I mean, it's also it's also high, you know, it's high. It drugs.
01;13;57;21 - 01;13;58;28
Speaker 1
It's yeah, yeah.
01;13;58;28 - 01;14;06;17
Speaker 3
And there's a huge Amish community. I mean, so a lot of people who I'm sure don't love permits or dealing with government.
01;14;06;19 - 01;14;08;02
Speaker 1
And so.
01;14;08;07 - 01;14;33;09
Speaker 3
So you see it in that how so I can see the positives of of stricter policies I despise working with I mean I'm dealing with a house in the northeast side now that we've owned for over a year which is just tragic in the flipping world. And I had a contract that was one I've rarely had any of this, but I had a contractor that did a really bad job and I had to take the job away from him and he was accepting of it.
01;14;33;09 - 01;14;42;12
Speaker 3
It was like he was like, I did a bad job and so I took it. We're still cleaning up his old permits, his old vendors that he didn't pay.
01;14;42;14 - 01;14;43;18
Speaker 2
But you know your problem.
01;14;43;21 - 01;15;02;09
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it's been the biggest I mean, the house has been done for three months and I'm finally getting like all the just the scheduling of all these different inspections and they come up with something and then a different guy comes through and he comes over more things like, Didn't that come through? If you have the same code, why didn't that come through in the first time?
01;15;02;09 - 01;15;04;07
Speaker 3
And they don't care.
01;15;04;09 - 01;15;05;09
Speaker 2
So so.
01;15;05;14 - 01;15;12;05
Speaker 3
I think we have good relationships with them, but yeah, Wyoming and Grand Rapids are the toughest to deal.
01;15;12;05 - 01;15;16;03
Speaker 2
With. Getting harder do you find feel it's getting harder or because like.
01;15;16;08 - 01;15;17;16
Speaker 3
Right now more and more flips like.
01;15;17;16 - 01;15;30;10
Speaker 2
Everywhere you know okay so there's a huge like push of like we need more housing we need and you're trying to put housing back on the market. That is for functionally obsolete or not.
01;15;30;12 - 01;15;31;18
Speaker 1
Right? I feel like I.
01;15;31;18 - 01;15;36;25
Speaker 3
Feel I really do a massive favor. Yeah. For completed good condition. Correct. We're we're restoring.
01;15;37;01 - 01;15;38;18
Speaker 1
To slow to slow.
01;15;38;18 - 01;15;48;28
Speaker 2
You down with the permitting process and I've seen a lot of this in like the you'll see it in the news like hey we're trying to make it easier for municipality wise to get things out and permitted.
01;15;48;29 - 01;15;51;02
Speaker 3
It. Nothing easier. No.
01;15;51;05 - 01;15;52;17
Speaker 2
It's getting probably going the other.
01;15;52;17 - 01;15;53;27
Speaker 3
Way, I would say so.
01;15;53;29 - 01;15;55;06
Speaker 2
That's unfortunate.
01;15;55;09 - 01;15;55;28
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01;15;56;00 - 01;16;03;28
Speaker 2
Because the the faster that you can get, I mean, if you're doing 200 houses that you're putting out on the market for people to then move into and.
01;16;04;00 - 01;16;25;20
Speaker 3
Yeah, and I'm starting to see small towns take on like we have a 30 unit apartment building in White Cloud and now they're starting their own, you know, it's like the fire department doing the like full rental certification inspection stuff, you know, and charging us like, I mean, we're here, we're we're trying to provide this like budget like six, $700 a month rental in.
01;16;25;20 - 01;16;26;26
Speaker 2
The market rate, affordable.
01;16;26;26 - 01;16;34;02
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you're going to charge us like $200 a unit, you know, just certify what like.
01;16;34;04 - 01;16;36;10
Speaker 1
It just a lot of.
01;16;36;10 - 01;16;52;24
Speaker 2
It's done with people have good intention behind it, right. They're like, you don't want it to be a slumlord situation or a situation where there's a fire hazard and we have this 30 unit, but it's like that ends up slowing it down. That ends up.
01;16;53;00 - 01;16;53;17
Speaker 1
I did I.
01;16;53;17 - 01;17;20;29
Speaker 3
Did the fire inspection site and the danger, but like yeah I but you know, yeah, you work through it but I mean now we got the whole Grand Rapids like the stricter LEED and. All these new things come in. I mean, I'm seriously considering selling some of my just older duplexes and just off. I just don't. But does it change my like, why I haven't is my tax when I bought those my tax basis is so low so like maybe I just deal with it.
01;17;21;01 - 01;17;21;12
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01;17;21;15 - 01;17;48;26
Speaker 2
But there's like even, like simple rules out there that are so over, like, I won't say which municipality, but I think Shaun had just done a deal with you guys and wrap the buyer that he bought some units from you guys in a different municipality and he's doing, we'll call it Assets Asset Management, where he's helping this guy turn some units and raise rents and get it.
01;17;49;03 - 01;18;20;27
Speaker 2
So he's taking on the property management role of fact, essentially taking that on. And we're talking to another property management guy in town and he's like, How did you get around the 25 mile radius of management for this municipality? And, and John's face was like, what, what, 25, 20 I heard though he had no clue. I didn't even know it was like and, and so I'm sure we're going to have to deal with that at some point.
01;18;21;00 - 01;18;23;27
Speaker 1
Just don't just reword it. You hope.
01;18;24;00 - 01;18;30;22
Speaker 2
And it's really it's really not. It is, but it's not because he's just helping him. He's almost like.
01;18;30;26 - 01;18;31;15
Speaker 1
A.
01;18;31;17 - 01;18;40;20
Speaker 2
Sultan in trying to get these units stabilized and everything and, and push the rents up like that's I think it was a he did buy the from you guys.
01;18;40;21 - 01;18;57;16
Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, that's reason why I love that little 12 unit is still like my favorite asset because I just, I'm so far low, hasn't done much with like just involvement and.
01;18;57;18 - 01;18;58;12
Speaker 2
Just.
01;18;58;14 - 01;19;00;18
Speaker 3
Anything this spring like I've got a 2016 and.
01;19;00;18 - 01;19;03;21
Speaker 2
You're right so had to I mean when did you buy the 12 unit.
01;19;03;23 - 01;19;04;24
Speaker 1
I was on your first one.
01;19;04;24 - 01;19;06;05
Speaker 3
Thousand.
01;19;06;08 - 01;19;09;14
Speaker 2
I mean 15. And so your rents have just continued to climb.
01;19;09;20 - 01;19;16;18
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's gone from like 600 to 1200.
01;19;16;18 - 01;19;18;08
Speaker 2
And there's house and there's not.
01;19;18;08 - 01;19;28;22
Speaker 3
But yeah, we bought a 15 unit in Sparta. And we bought it with a rents. This is, we just bought this two years ago and we had rent a $350.
01;19;28;24 - 01;19;29;24
Speaker 2
So my gosh.
01;19;29;24 - 01;19;40;27
Speaker 3
Part us and everybody for 50 k a door. We hardly convinced the choice, so I'm sure we could have had a better choice one on the loaning on us. But they're like working through all this math and they're.
01;19;41;02 - 01;19;43;15
Speaker 1
All logical and they're like, you know.
01;19;43;18 - 01;20;02;01
Speaker 2
Like this is going to be a thousand bucks a month. Day one of the. Yeah, but okay, back to back. Like, how hard is that for you? Because I've had to go like I've had to kick commercial tenants out that are month to month because somebody is willing to pay call it literally more than double their rent. Yeah.
01;20;02;01 - 01;20;04;17
Speaker 2
And it's not.
01;20;04;19 - 01;20;23;16
Speaker 3
No. We're having a commercial or we have one in Rockford right now on a commercial building that we're trying to go from. What is it, a 3040? No, no more that I don't know what square foot is, maybe 50,000 square feet. And we're trying to go from 350 foot to 515 a foot.
01;20;23;20 - 01;20;41;06
Speaker 2
I know that building. I looked at that building so that in and it's so hard for that tenant. They feel like you're right. But then they're also not being fair to you by not coming closer to market because it's like, well.
01;20;41;07 - 01;20;50;21
Speaker 3
Now you do. Yeah, I think we would reach a deal with them. But it's they hired, they hired some of their own like market research and it doesn't help that they're not that their ownership is not local. So they're.
01;20;50;21 - 01;20;51;28
Speaker 2
Like you're you're just.
01;20;52;01 - 01;20;53;05
Speaker 1
Gouging What.
01;20;53;05 - 01;21;01;27
Speaker 3
On earth like, are you you're trying to boot us? And then their market research basically came up with, yeah, like 495 a foot, which is.
01;21;01;29 - 01;21;04;06
Speaker 1
Which is still you take that deal, go.
01;21;04;06 - 01;21;25;15
Speaker 2
Find 50,000 square foot in in single tenant building at 495, a square foot in West Michigan right now. Garlock Right. So yeah, I mean that's still a screaming hot deal for Asians ice cream. It's still a good deal for them, right? And you know, it helps you guys to, I'm sure, based on purchase price, etc., to have raised it.
01;21;25;20 - 01;21;33;29
Speaker 3
Yeah, and that's why we bought that one. Yeah, I'm very sorry about that Roger B building that we bought three guys and, and renewals.
01;21;33;29 - 01;22;01;22
Speaker 2
Right. So the tenants are they sign these leases, they're locked in from maybe 2010 and it's sometimes and you know lazy lease type situation where they're paying three bucks a square foot. Meanwhile the market's push all the way to, you know 650 pushing closer to seven bucks a square foot on stuff I'm going to list and I talked about this with Chris Burns and and I'm probably going to make some people mad, but it's an expansion of industrial building.
01;22;01;25 - 01;22;04;01
Speaker 3
I just learned, by the way, that Chris, that there were or.
01;22;04;05 - 01;22;05;15
Speaker 1
I'll just turn to.
01;22;05;15 - 01;22;06;03
Speaker 2
Chris friends.
01;22;06;04 - 01;22;21;08
Speaker 3
I learned at first from John Rosenbaum. You've done stuff with John, right? Yep. And he said, there's two. Chris Is it like I told them, yeah, I'm going on this podcast with Chris and he's like, Well, you know, there's two of them right? I'm like, No, I don't. I didn't know that. And so we're trying to figure out if I was on which.
01;22;21;08 - 01;22;24;07
Speaker 1
One to go with. Yeah, so I want to go to one.
01;22;24;09 - 01;22;26;00
Speaker 3
You've done some stuff with him.
01;22;26;00 - 01;22;30;25
Speaker 2
So he was out with the new baby. So then I had Chris come on the podcast.
01;22;30;25 - 01;22;33;05
Speaker 3
I started the business and I.
01;22;33;05 - 01;22;34;08
Speaker 2
Didn't even tell.
01;22;34;10 - 01;22;35;21
Speaker 3
Him tunes from the podcast.
01;22;35;27 - 01;22;39;01
Speaker 1
So yeah, this is really great. This is a.
01;22;39;01 - 01;22;45;15
Speaker 2
Really great selling point. It's really like, Hey, trust me.
01;22;45;17 - 01;22;49;25
Speaker 1
You're at least I good how he's how I could do.
01;22;49;27 - 01;23;07;16
Speaker 2
So. But we're going to new built into existing buildings, putting an 8000 square feet loading dock door overhead door basic building out by the airport. Super hard to find this type of space. I'm going to try and listen. I'm 50 square foot plus log on that and.
01;23;07;19 - 01;23;09;08
Speaker 1
See what happens. See what you get.
01;23;09;14 - 01;23;28;03
Speaker 2
See what activity. I mean, maybe it's and we've talked to the owner about it and he's like, he's patient and he doesn't you know, it's like, yeah, let's let's push it because he's seeing the same thing. There's there's some other product out there and stuff, but not, not new, not with the dock and that sized building that close.
01;23;28;05 - 01;23;30;11
Speaker 2
So it's it'll be interesting. Yeah.
01;23;30;14 - 01;23;42;08
Speaker 3
I don't know if I ran that or that 44th Street deal that we bought, but that's, that's another I mean that was set up to be that too fund, the renovation, but that's a very high are we had 12 bucks for it. And I know.
01;23;42;11 - 01;23;43;03
Speaker 2
In in.
01;23;43;09 - 01;23;44;00
Speaker 3
With that for.
01;23;44;00 - 01;24;02;20
Speaker 2
The first year you could be but I mean from the looks of it, I mean you guys are doing a pretty extensive renovation right there too, and putting a lot of money into it. Yeah. What? And it's maybe you can't talk about it. Yeah, but yeah, right down 44th and Patterson dude, Literally the first building out of the airport.
01;24;02;26 - 01;24;05;02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Who is going there again?
01;24;05;04 - 01;24;06;12
Speaker 3
It's a great water garage.
01;24;06;19 - 01;24;10;14
Speaker 2
And what are the what do they do there?
01;24;10;14 - 01;24;14;10
Speaker 3
Like I would say they're a high end garage. I mean there are.
01;24;14;16 - 01;24;15;24
Speaker 2
Were doing repair and.
01;24;15;27 - 01;24;34;29
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's your standard but I wish I could have a better description for so there so I believe is Dykstra auto. Yeah and they they're doing this massive expansion part of their like 110 shops now so.
01;24;35;00 - 01;24;36;28
Speaker 2
Is this them and Yeah yeah.
01;24;36;29 - 01;24;40;14
Speaker 3
So their offices are downtown. Yeah.
01;24;40;14 - 01;24;44;04
Speaker 2
So they're working on high end probably cars and.
01;24;44;09 - 01;24;50;24
Speaker 3
They're, I think they're still a standard business, They're just an exceptional model of like quality and technology and.
01;24;50;27 - 01;24;54;04
Speaker 2
And they're taking them, they're taking that whole building. Yeah.
01;24;54;11 - 01;25;07;04
Speaker 3
And yeah. So that's actually they're going to be, they're going to have offices and a garage in there. So that's, I don't think it's gonna be their headquarters, but it's going to be where a lot of their I think it's okay for all these hundred and ten garages.
01;25;07;10 - 01;25;10;25
Speaker 2
Okay. So they have locations all over the country at this point.
01;25;10;25 - 01;25;13;18
Speaker 3
And yeah, they got some really nice facilities.
01;25;13;22 - 01;25;19;28
Speaker 2
And that's a cool buy too, because you have an A like there is residual land too for expansion. They're doing it so.
01;25;19;28 - 01;25;23;13
Speaker 3
They that they either retained or sold that land separately. really. Yeah.
01;25;23;16 - 01;25;24;26
Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah, that's fine.
01;25;24;26 - 01;25;27;03
Speaker 3
Yeah. So we didn't. Yeah. So we're, I mean.
01;25;27;03 - 01;25;28;00
Speaker 2
The price beside.
01;25;28;00 - 01;25;40;04
Speaker 3
A great lake and. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm happy with it. I Yeah, a couple of my friends work for the company as well and that's not how the deal even came to be just a couple of my close friends. But they were probably so thrilled.
01;25;40;10 - 01;25;45;28
Speaker 2
That they got to deal with you. And I'm like, knowing it's always nice when, you.
01;25;45;28 - 01;25;48;11
Speaker 3
Know, I feel like it's a good it's a good relationship. Yeah.
01;25;48;11 - 01;25;55;17
Speaker 2
And I guess it's probably been like three weeks since I went out there. But you guys are doing a ton of a ton of work.
01;25;55;20 - 01;25;58;09
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's managing. It's them doing the whole
01;25;58;13 - 01;25;59;19
Speaker 2
Lt is.
01;25;59;22 - 01;26;06;10
Speaker 3
Even better. So but that's how we got it structured. I mean, even though it's actually released out of escrow as they complete the steps.
01;26;06;16 - 01;26;06;21
Speaker 2
You.
01;26;06;21 - 01;26;07;24
Speaker 3
Know. So.
01;26;07;26 - 01;26;18;05
Speaker 2
Yeah. And, and then I guess kind of leading into your junior 180, you're going to get too close to that. I got a feeling.
01;26;18;08 - 01;26;22;04
Speaker 1
That some of our houses are going to you.
01;26;22;05 - 01;26;25;04
Speaker 3
Can count on 180 where it is. It's one 5150.
01;26;25;04 - 01;26;45;29
Speaker 2
You're getting to the 150 range of flipping houses this year. You have the systems in place is driving, driving a lot of cash and everything. And now an outsider looking in and having done this deal with you and Roger B, you're out hunting now, even getting into the commercial game, correct? I mean, that's.
01;26;46;02 - 01;26;50;07
Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean, I feel like the interest rates have really Yeah. Damned dampened mine.
01;26;50;07 - 01;27;00;27
Speaker 2
So Yeah. So it is so tough right now and and unless you're unless you're in a position where you have so much cash coming in that it's like I just need to place with.
01;27;00;27 - 01;27;12;24
Speaker 3
All these cost studies, we would not have bought the last two commercial assets you know, that we bought. Yeah. I'm not saying they were like they would have closed, but it was the cost study that kind of pushed over the edge of like.
01;27;12;27 - 01;27;15;01
Speaker 2
It makes it worthwhile because now as a.
01;27;15;01 - 01;27;22;22
Speaker 3
Real estate professional with, with the flipping, you know, business, I'm able to hammer that income, you know, what they owed it pushing.
01;27;22;22 - 01;27;46;16
Speaker 2
It's still pushing out there for the owner occupants and you know right. They're looking at it and they're like, hey, I can I'm making 30% on my dollar driving my business. So paying the extra for this building doesn't matter to me. I'm not looking for an exact return off this owning this real estate. But from the investor standpoint, with interest rates continuing to push, nothing's given.
01;27;46;16 - 01;28;08;11
Speaker 2
Not one thing and I've talked to three or four different developers now that they're like and John Francis, I even think said it on the podcast is like I buy three buildings a year, usually a Bond zero. Yeah, I mean, it's just getting harder to make those numbers function. So it's going to be interesting to see like either even the lease rates and I was like, I'm fun.
01;28;08;11 - 01;28;09;10
Speaker 3
I love to go shopping.
01;28;09;13 - 01;28;27;01
Speaker 2
Well, I was convinced that like, I've been convinced like there's got to be some sort of correction coming. There's got to be like some sort of like price reduction or so. Yeah, but in my mind, I'm now I'm tending to start to think like, no, I think the thing that might have to give is lease rates and they might just have to go up.
01;28;27;01 - 01;28;29;14
Speaker 2
Yeah. And how these tenants on the retail.
01;28;29;14 - 01;28;30;29
Speaker 1
Side.
01;28;31;02 - 01;28;42;10
Speaker 2
But like I mean cup of coffee like how many more cups of coffee at the two going from 35 bucks a square foot. 40 bucks a square foot on your space like that. It's.
01;28;42;12 - 01;28;45;16
Speaker 1
I don't know. Yeah. What do you, what do you think. For my.
01;28;45;17 - 01;28;54;17
Speaker 3
Yeah. For my retail spent like on the, you know that vacancy I've got or just future of it but yeah. How do you feel about like retail when it comes to lease rates.
01;28;54;19 - 01;28;56;07
Speaker 1
Yeah I still think.
01;28;56;10 - 01;28;57;15
Speaker 2
Corridor.
01;28;57;18 - 01;29;01;27
Speaker 1
Four from a corridor standpoint you're sitting really well but but you're talking Kalamazoo and I'm six right.
01;29;02;00 - 01;29;04;18
Speaker 3
Just generally West Michigan in retail in.
01;29;04;18 - 01;29;24;01
Speaker 1
General. Yeah the big thing for West Michigan in retail we haven't had a new retail corridor created in so long just because we haven't had a big box like Myer, a new target, a new, you know, like Home Depot, like I know we had the new Myer out and James Town, which is good to see some retail kind of follow suit after that we have brand new all the out there, the culverts and stuff.
01;29;24;03 - 01;29;27;26
Speaker 3
So it's a it's all corridors like, like, like a, like a knapp's corner, just a.
01;29;28;02 - 01;29;33;15
Speaker 1
20th street in the Beltline Alpine Avenue, just off 96. They're rivertown And then a.
01;29;33;15 - 01;29;52;18
Speaker 2
New one is being created right now with M6 in Caledonia, with the Myer gas station finally going in and everyone, I mean, they've done all the site work for the Myer store and so like new corridor there, it's been a corridor that really defines it. Then all the national retailers will want to follow Myer coming in.
01;29;52;18 - 01;30;08;19
Speaker 1
I just think it's hard because you have you have to be on 35 to $40 a square foot in order for the developer to make sense from a rental standpoint. You all that and a lot of these local tenants just can't pay those type of rents and the Nationals are very specific on where they want to go. They're going to want to chase after the big boxes.
01;30;08;19 - 01;30;17;26
Speaker 1
They want to see like a, you know, a target of Myer, a Wal Mart go in and then they'll follow suit right after them. It's kind of the domino effect retail.
01;30;17;28 - 01;30;40;08
Speaker 2
And I've heard a few different people say this too, like retail already kind of had its recession and people that made it through the dot com thing have come out the other side and like they have their business niches and they're still driving foot traffic and doing super well. And I I've loved retail and the repossession of existing buildings or even new construction that we've done.
01;30;40;08 - 01;31;07;01
Speaker 2
I've really enjoyed it and it's I don't think it's going anywhere. People still want a cup of coffee, they still need to get their haircut, they need to go see the physical therapist or the dentist or the dancer. But it's as far as new development. I mean, it's just when you're talking like you might land for a retail strip center, you might land two national tenants that can pay that 30 bucks a square foot.
01;31;07;03 - 01;31;31;26
Speaker 2
But then you need, you know, three or four infill tenants that might be regional or local tenants that need to pay 25, 27 bucks a square foot. And you're taking the risk on a purchase fill commitment and then interest rates through your construction project not continuing to creep up. And there's some banks, lenders in a lock and stuff like that that you can work partnerships with.
01;31;31;26 - 01;31;46;13
Speaker 2
But it's just it's a ton of risk for a small margin. So it's it's slowed down immensely. But then once again, for that existing retail center like Kalamazoo in that corridor, like rents are going to keep pushing up because.
01;31;46;15 - 01;31;52;13
Speaker 1
There's just no they are in the municipalities at some point. There's only so much land that they'll allow a commercial use.
01;31;52;15 - 01;32;18;03
Speaker 2
So all so if you're looking if you're a tenant and you're like, Hey, I can move in. If this corner unit went dark on this main drag corridor that the is super stringent and zoning, staying commercial zoning, staying in this area and maybe there's one or two other parcels that somebody could build on. They're 40 bucks a square foot to build new to be in that corner unit.
01;32;18;06 - 01;32;38;22
Speaker 2
Or they can take this at 30 bucks. They're happy as can be on the existing 30 bucks on the existing never been cleaned it up and so I that's where I just keep it maybe I'm just being I don't even know if optimistic is the right word, but maybe rents just keep creeping up is maybe the answer.
01;32;38;24 - 01;32;54;20
Speaker 1
And I also don't think you mentioned earlier, Kelvin, that municipalities are just making it harder. I mean, there's so many users who would love to be a Beltline and now that need to drive through and that require a drive through. But the municipalities like we're not going to let that happen. Yeah, I think it's kind of slowed down development up there a little bit.
01;32;54;25 - 01;33;18;18
Speaker 2
Even I won't say which municipality, but like, yeah, we'd love to have new projects, but it has to be bottom floor retail and top floor multi-family. And it's like the numbers of parcels, the numbers don't justify doing creating that. So it's like, yeah, there's a lot of barriers, which is good if you own, if you own existing.
01;33;18;18 - 01;33;19;06
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's good.
01;33;19;06 - 01;33;28;12
Speaker 3
For you. So yeah, I've never been in the new construction business because I always tell I've gone down that road, I begin to hate it but it's, it's an edge.
01;33;28;14 - 01;33;31;12
Speaker 1
This some. Yeah. Well I so.
01;33;31;15 - 01;33;59;02
Speaker 2
It's new construction it's I mean it's it's not everyone wants it to be a you know a drawing that just like boom here it is but it's a living, breathing thing with Malta and you see it with the fix and flips even. And in this contractor like it's a living, breathing thing where like, you know, sites are different and you're working with multiple different subs from all over the place and they're human.
01;33;59;02 - 01;34;02;03
Speaker 2
There's a human element to it. So it's not a perfect.
01;34;02;07 - 01;34;04;05
Speaker 1
And Then you're doing the eagle and.
01;34;04;07 - 01;34;05;23
Speaker 2
Eagle, you're dealing with.
01;34;05;25 - 01;34;07;02
Speaker 1
Framework and all that.
01;34;07;04 - 01;34;09;01
Speaker 2
Right now concerns is terrifying.
01;34;09;01 - 01;34;10;12
Speaker 3
Like when eagle.
01;34;10;16 - 01;34;14;23
Speaker 2
Eagle is the it to be well.
01;34;14;25 - 01;34;16;18
Speaker 1
What was it called the west coast of.
01;34;16;18 - 01;34;38;01
Speaker 2
Laura and No no it's not Laura but anyway they do all the permitting for wetlands or a lot of like drainage and stuff like that. So you're dealing with the state level of like, I want to develop this site, but hey, there's this low area with some cattails in it. Can we build here or you can't just go bulldoze that over.
01;34;38;01 - 01;34;44;16
Speaker 2
I got to get permitting it and it takes a long time. Yeah. So you get your eagle permits and then you all.
01;34;44;18 - 01;34;45;02
Speaker 3
Me All righty.
01;34;45;05 - 01;34;52;00
Speaker 1
Next. Next. Yeah, yeah. Let's build. Just don't do it. Just don't do it. No, I don't think that's got to.
01;34;52;00 - 01;34;55;02
Speaker 3
Be your thing And that's got to be what you do. Yeah, I.
01;34;55;04 - 01;35;19;20
Speaker 2
I, I have a lot more fun. I have fun with balls and both a lot of fun for different reasons, but the repossession of existing building and like find and I haven't found that one this year but like that building where it's like you know the rents are there three and $50 multifamily rents and you know all day because you look at it all day that this is, you know, 950 the month you're buying.
01;35;19;20 - 01;35;21;26
Speaker 3
Is all those tenants stayed.
01;35;21;28 - 01;35;23;18
Speaker 2
All they did right. Yeah.
01;35;23;18 - 01;35;49;27
Speaker 3
And they did complain and then they all stayed and, and now we give them a better product. We even went into some of the units and made changes that needed to happen and, and I've heard so and they still complain some things but it it's at some point you do tell them to and that like I had a few conversations with the tenants of like hey I paid for this building of what like my numbers I paid three times for this building, what the previous owner paid for it.
01;35;50;00 - 01;35;50;29
Speaker 1
And like and they're.
01;35;51;00 - 01;35;51;29
Speaker 3
Like.
01;35;52;02 - 01;36;02;07
Speaker 2
And then they see you cleaning, you see you putting the money into it. And and visually, now all of a sudden they can emotionally wrap their head around like, yeah, this guy is improving the property.
01;36;02;07 - 01;36;20;11
Speaker 3
Yeah. So rents there are actually only 895. It is it's a multifamily building where every single utility is on where they pay, which is unique. But you know, so that's maybe the equivalent of getting like 1050, but so it's a very class B, C asset.
01;36;20;12 - 01;36;44;08
Speaker 2
So still it's, it's the same idea, like on the commercial side, like, I know we looked at one or we talked about one out on the southwest side. We're like, I was excited about it because the rents were low. There was upside. But then it goes back to the point where like the market and inventory is so tight that like the numbers just got on the buy side from some other buyer came in was like, I'll pay X and I don't care.
01;36;44;11 - 01;37;01;14
Speaker 2
We're like, But if you can find that, if you can find that building that has a tenants that are rents are low, you can come in and do the parking lot, clean up the facade. You know, maybe you have to read tenant a couple them, but the majority of them are going to stay and that's where their trade area is.
01;37;01;14 - 01;37;11;01
Speaker 2
That's where their people are that they know and their customer base. So it's like, I love that one. It's a it's simpler in my mind than the new construction as well. But yeah.
01;37;11;04 - 01;37;13;02
Speaker 3
And it seems a lot safer in my mind.
01;37;13;03 - 01;37;13;22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;37;13;25 - 01;37;29;26
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean you, you have, you have a proven location at that point in some way, right. Like it's already the structure is already there, there's already cash flow coming in as opposed to like expecting something is terrifying, but it's addicting.
01;37;29;28 - 01;37;47;17
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I don't know, commercial like that, That's my that's my learning, you know, So those same mistakes I made with that first residential tenant, I feel like I'm still making in the in the commercial world. Whereas when I buy that SPADA multifamily, like I know exactly what rents are going to be. I know, I know what I've got The moment.
01;37;47;23 - 01;38;00;26
Speaker 2
You are, you like, do you lean towards a commercial product that you like better or is it more like numbers driven for you, like opportunity driven? At this point.
01;38;00;28 - 01;38;06;16
Speaker 3
I do lean towards a more of a manufacturing.
01;38;06;18 - 01;38;23;02
Speaker 2
Like a building. You know, if you saw a retail building with a strong tenant and and lease rates numbers that work for you and a manufacturer that was like decent, you're still leaning probably towards a manufacturer, you see more runway?
01;38;23;04 - 01;38;47;23
Speaker 3
I think so I feel I feel like I've you know, I feel like we've done a little bit of Denver's of diversification for this just for the sake of saying that. But I'm not I'm not really. Yeah. I mean, multifamily is still I feel the the best there's still multifamily out there that's not it's it's easily the most poorly managed asset so that's always the easiest like Repossess like, like the building we bought in White Cloud.
01;38;47;23 - 01;38;57;09
Speaker 3
I mean we bought that a year and a half ago, four or a year ago, but a year ago for like 31, 30 grand indoor door, I think. Yeah.
01;38;57;09 - 01;39;02;17
Speaker 2
And you push in 100 and 3050 a door building new.
01;39;02;21 - 01;39;03;24
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;39;03;27 - 01;39;04;08
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01;39;04;14 - 01;39;08;07
Speaker 2
130 maybe just land your wish.
01;39;08;07 - 01;39;13;04
Speaker 3
You would never want to put that up on white cloud. Yeah. Right now you know like yeah.
01;39;13;04 - 01;39;14;28
Speaker 1
It does justify.
01;39;14;28 - 01;39;38;00
Speaker 3
Yeah you're right. Our rents are on a two bedroom. I think we're getting eight. Maybe we're getting. Yeah, I think 695 on the one beds, you know, eight maybe it's, I don't know, 865 on the two beds but we're not. Yeah. It doesn't lease up as fast having to do some subsidized so it's okay. The building's okay and we were going to flip, we were going to we were going to flip that building and possibly some others.
01;39;38;00 - 01;39;57;25
Speaker 3
But same thing with interest rates is like even like that Spring Lake. Yeah, they were listed as like we had we had that thing pending. We had four offers on it and then by the time it went off or fell apart, now we're not able to quite get what we had it pending. You know, we were paying it, we were bending over 100 k door and now we can't get it, you know, not, you know, 95.
01;39;57;25 - 01;39;58;21
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01;39;58;24 - 01;39;59;08
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;39;59;10 - 01;40;17;09
Speaker 2
There's one that there's one too that I think guy had like a four point to offer and or maybe had a four and he wanted 4.2 and he turned it down and now we're like he's looking at 3.2. Yeah. Multifamily sale.
01;40;17;11 - 01;40;40;27
Speaker 3
I feel like multifamily probably talked about 15%, 10 to 15%. So at least on that, probably on that Class B, C stuff, I think people are just so I think people are still hungry for it. It's just like so we're we're just not motivated. So if we needed to sell it, we'd be that Spring Lake complex. I mean, we paid, we paid 45 and or, you know, for that.
01;40;40;27 - 01;40;45;06
Speaker 3
So it would be doing great to sell at night ticket or but it just comes back to that. What am I going to replace it with?
01;40;45;12 - 01;40;46;00
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;40;46;02 - 01;40;53;14
Speaker 3
Yeah, I still like the asset so I neither wanted to sell it and, but if I'm not going to get my number, then I don't really care. I need to sell.
01;40;53;15 - 01;41;24;13
Speaker 2
And multifamily gets squeezed in a different way than commercial to where it's like a lot of the expense rolls tripled. That was to the tenant. So even as taxes go up or carry cost of like insurance maintenance, all these things go up on a property, a lot of it gets pushed through to the tenant. On the commercial side, we're like, You guys are getting squeezed on the multifamily side on both sides because expenses are climbing, interest rates are going up and at the same time, like rents aren't going up as fast as expenses.
01;41;24;13 - 01;41;26;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, so not now.
01;41;26;08 - 01;41;42;17
Speaker 3
Not in the last year where this weird rent rents have been very like I would say volatile like, like, Yeah, huge jump like really really big like increases and increases in decreases in demand seasonally with rentals in the last year too.
01;41;42;18 - 01;42;03;18
Speaker 2
What, what do you see for the market because like obviously I mean you're you're 20 and you see housing market where it's in jump in or 18 to 20 and you jump in feet first. I mean where do you see the market going? Well, because there's a ton of us ten different people get ten different answers or there's fear pushing through the media.
01;42;03;18 - 01;42;13;11
Speaker 2
Like where where do you see what's your prediction on all this, whether it's multifamily, single family or commercial or separately?
01;42;13;14 - 01;42;32;21
Speaker 3
I think like I think it's kind of stuck until it yeah, until you get that world class catastrophic event that that does always come. And just how big is that event and what does that do to, you know, what is our manufacturing going to get hammered again that's going to that's going to up that's going to be an upheaval on our industrial two rates right.
01;42;32;21 - 01;42;53;04
Speaker 3
Rates and vacancy. So I feel like yeah, it feels so secure until something like that happens again. I feel so healthy. So I don't know, housing too. It's like you're I still feel like your cost of I feel like there's at perhaps adequate close to adequate housing in West Michigan and maybe I don't I don't look.
01;42;53;07 - 01;43;20;27
Speaker 2
But even like as a prices and my mind can't keep going up like we're looking a townhome product and I think it was like 2700 bucks a month new for three bed, two baths like that's a lot of money for people. Yeah and can you know, can are there 40 families that can afford that and so is there a limit because income hasn't gone up that much either.
01;43;21;00 - 01;43;48;16
Speaker 3
All these forecasts are so you know hard as you know. Yeah, but it's all the people, all the real estate agents were all especially the like in my flipping world, like, I can't tell you how many times I ask that question to real estate agents and they were all run over the last year. You know, they all for in October, November, they all forecasted a pretty rough, you know, spring or least a level spring.
01;43;48;17 - 01;43;49;11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01;43;49;13 - 01;44;00;21
Speaker 3
And I feel like we had ten or 15%, you know, growth in that January to two to May time. So they just like we had the previous year.
01;44;00;21 - 01;44;23;22
Speaker 2
But they are having a lot of the rest, even the commercial side. But I mean because of inventory there a lot of brokers I would assume like their outlook on the market right now is different than because it's and it's bizarre because I haven't felt that though. But it's like we're a smaller company. I don't know if it's just because we're smaller, but we haven't seen a slowdown on the brokers.
01;44;23;22 - 01;44;30;01
Speaker 2
But I have heard residential side where there were where you do get that like a it's so it's tough out here right now.
01;44;30;09 - 01;44;44;28
Speaker 3
Yeah yeah I've seen yeah. Whether it's title companies mortgage lenders or real estate agents I've seen they all seem a little slow like the values are all high and they're just the volume of transactions isn't.
01;44;45;00 - 01;44;46;22
Speaker 2
Isn't so it still.
01;44;46;24 - 01;44;48;26
Speaker 3
Doesn't really affect us like isn't.
01;44;48;29 - 01;44;57;13
Speaker 2
Anything that's me that you're able to find 140 homes when you know you're here. But it's like you are putting in the work, you're spending the money and you're putting in the work.
01;44;57;13 - 01;45;00;19
Speaker 3
And I still feel like we're picking the good ones. We're not buying every home.
01;45;00;19 - 01;45;01;27
Speaker 2
We know how.
01;45;01;27 - 01;45;20;10
Speaker 3
Many we're buying. Last year there was a stage where we're buying a one in every two and a half homes that we were looking at where it was. So and that's when like we felt like market how many? Right now we're buying like one in every I'm probably evaluating four or five deals there and buying maybe one of them.
01;45;20;11 - 01;45;52;10
Speaker 3
You know so I mean I I'm probably looking at 20 between our own marketing wholesale leads a few on market a few agent that's been a good source for me lately is is probably five or six residential agents out there that just like come to us but I know still runs keep this going. I always run into sellers with not good circumstances or even sellers that are like negotiating their agent commissions, you know, And so they run into some real difficult seller and they know they're not going to be able to get tons of people through through showings.
01;45;52;12 - 01;46;02;19
Speaker 3
So like, let me bring this one guy through. Yeah, I'll get your number. I got a lot of agents collect like lately on those on these flips collecting, you know, no commission, no fee on the front end.
01;46;02;21 - 01;46;03;12
Speaker 2
And then list.
01;46;03;15 - 01;46;12;10
Speaker 3
And then and then I list that full through them at a full commission. You know, nice. Puts a bit of work on their part because they facilitate that first transaction and don't get paid.
01;46;12;12 - 01;46;13;26
Speaker 1
But the they get the value that they have to.
01;46;13;26 - 01;46;19;02
Speaker 3
Wait for in a month's. But then the house sells for, you know, 120 grand more than what that transaction was for.
01;46;19;09 - 01;46;27;08
Speaker 2
This is worthwhile, but it's a delayed gratification which we're not. Yeah, people people are not good at that.
01;46;27;11 - 01;46;31;24
Speaker 3
yeah. Wholesalers too. It's like I've had the whole.
01;46;31;27 - 01;46;33;05
Speaker 1
I've had so many that I've.
01;46;33;05 - 01;46;46;10
Speaker 3
Offered wholesalers. I'm like, you know, they, they really want to be at this number and I'm like, I just can't get there. I sit in and I'll say, But the way I can get there is, you know, but I'll buy for five grand less and then I'll give you, you know, 20% of the profits on the back end.
01;46;46;13 - 01;46;47;00
Speaker 3
So it'd be like a.
01;46;47;00 - 01;46;50;00
Speaker 1
Huge deal that you drop. So I don't.
01;46;50;03 - 01;46;50;12
Speaker 2
Know.
01;46;50;16 - 01;46;52;07
Speaker 3
They don't do it. They want the.
01;46;52;09 - 01;46;52;24
Speaker 1
Money.
01;46;52;26 - 01;46;58;14
Speaker 2
To be paid like almost like a paycheck to paycheck. They need it today.
01;46;58;17 - 01;47;06;14
Speaker 3
And that's the price and more the nature of the wholesaling business is. Yeah, it's just the and the flipping business is yeah, it's just so neat that cash flow, how many.
01;47;06;14 - 01;47;16;06
Speaker 2
People are out there in like competition wise? I mean, how many people are out there doing more than 100 homes a year in West Michigan?
01;47;16;08 - 01;47;44;19
Speaker 3
None. Wow. There's a lot there I think I can name three or four that are in. I think I could be wrong. Sure. Yeah. There's a few flippers out there I don't know very well. And then there's a few competitors I'll go out to lunch with and, you know, and we'll talk numbers. There's I would say there's three other West Michigan flippers that do 60 to 90 homes a year.
01;47;44;22 - 01;47;48;28
Speaker 1
Similar sized do. Yeah, Yeah.
01;47;49;00 - 01;47;54;27
Speaker 3
And it's similar sized houses, house houses. Yeah. So I would say similar models.
01;47;54;29 - 01;48;16;07
Speaker 2
And at what point I mean like process, like when, when did you bring your first employee on like that growth of it and adding overhead to it. Because that has to be hard when you're working chunks and putting your own cash in to then take in that overhead, like when and how. Just when you just what is there.
01;48;16;09 - 01;48;38;05
Speaker 3
It's yeah, it's been a fast growth. I mean, you know, every it's been it's been pretty it's been pretty in line with the growth of the volume that we've done. So it's been every since ever since it was like 1 to 1 like office hire per year type thing and like always hiring four or five more guys in the field.
01;48;38;08 - 01;48;50;18
Speaker 2
Do you see yourself ever moving away from the flip side of it, or will you just almost kind of continue to hire yourself out of it and keep that machine rolling or what? Don't know yet.
01;48;50;21 - 01;49;06;13
Speaker 3
Very yeah, in the very in the very long term, you know, at some point you would hope that you're coming. You'd hope you could buy enough commercial real estate where your cash flow was so strong that that flipping. Yeah. But it was a district also.
01;49;06;13 - 01;49;12;18
Speaker 2
3232. Yeah. It's like you're not looking to be done anytime soon either. So it's like.
01;49;12;25 - 01;49;17;26
Speaker 3
In the business suffers every, every fall because I go hunting for two.
01;49;17;28 - 01;49;19;27
Speaker 2
Always deer like always whitetail.
01;49;19;27 - 01;49;27;14
Speaker 3
Or I would hunt. Yeah, I have hunted before, but I would I would love to go in more out west or or even international hunts.
01;49;27;14 - 01;49;30;09
Speaker 1
Or do you just mostly get hired anywhere?
01;49;30;11 - 01;49;47;11
Speaker 3
I mean, I spend most of my hunting in Michigan, so I've got a I've a lot of or I've bought quite a few farms in area north of town as well. And I don't want to be a farmer too. Kind of like cows. And, you know, it's a really bad business to get.
01;49;47;11 - 01;49;50;00
Speaker 1
Into like a terrible, terrible.
01;49;50;00 - 01;49;50;13
Speaker 3
Business to.
01;49;50;13 - 01;49;54;27
Speaker 1
Get into, you know, especially when you're not about to own farms already.
01;49;54;29 - 01;50;02;13
Speaker 2
Every farmer says that, too. And then I see him drive up in the 2020, brand new Suburban with the farm plates, and I'm like.
01;50;02;15 - 01;50;06;25
Speaker 1
Maybe I should be a farmer. I heard there are.
01;50;06;27 - 01;50;29;28
Speaker 3
Some guys who do it right. I talked. A guy just called me because I just bought I just bought a farm and Stan and I say a farm, it's mainly a whitetail deer farm. It's got like 20 acres until about 180 acre farm. And it's a lot of swamp hardwoods. So I'm buying it for the deer. But the guy at the guy beside me probably shouldn't say his name, but he owns he just calls me up and he's got he's a he's the fourth generation.
01;50;29;28 - 01;50;38;15
Speaker 3
He's 73 years old and he's a fourth generation farmer in this land were 10,000 acres. Wow. 5000 acres of potatoes. 5000, of course.
01;50;38;15 - 01;50;46;06
Speaker 2
And then how much is he? Because a lot of those guys then also lease other product like is he is he running your farm too for the.
01;50;46;06 - 01;50;59;19
Speaker 3
No he they own all they they all their farm they own and farm 10,000 acres so so where that's where you're farming wealth. That's right yeah. Is on your appreciation like you can break it you know as long as you keep breaking even every year and.
01;50;59;24 - 01;51;03;09
Speaker 1
That's how they do land, that's what they do. So yeah.
01;51;03;11 - 01;51;25;13
Speaker 3
So that's cool. Yeah. So no, I have been, I've been acquiring a lot of land in southeast Ohio and in Michigan and yeah, it not, it's not the lucrative return. I've been doing a lot of timber harvest so I do get, you know, in Ohio I can shoot that like I can easily buy 100 acres for 200 grand but 15% down.
01;51;25;13 - 01;51;39;11
Speaker 3
That's what the Yeah. And the interest rates are actually great so they'll charge 7% interest. But you, it's a co-op and you get, you get at the end of the year you get like you're 2 to 2 and a half percent patronage back.
01;51;39;13 - 01;51;39;28
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;51;40;00 - 01;51;54;14
Speaker 3
Interest rates are effectively like four and a half percent sdlt And so so I can, I can put 30 grand down on this 100 acres and the next day I can get it. Or, you know, a few months later I get a check from the logger for 40, 50 grand.
01;51;54;16 - 01;51;55;08
Speaker 2
No kidding.
01;51;55;08 - 01;51;56;16
Speaker 3
Wow. And go buy an XP.
01;51;56;16 - 01;52;01;01
Speaker 1
So how did you find. It's very, very nice, Dave Ramsey, because, you know, how do.
01;52;01;01 - 01;52;06;11
Speaker 2
You find that? How do you even figure that? Like who where did you.
01;52;06;11 - 01;52;07;15
Speaker 1
Start that up to? Yeah.
01;52;07;15 - 01;52;09;29
Speaker 2
Or like, where did you start learning this? Even I.
01;52;09;29 - 01;52;11;16
Speaker 1
Just log I would.
01;52;11;18 - 01;52;23;26
Speaker 3
I mean, I started very small side by like ten acre parcels here locally and I so I started to understand timber value and I worked with like Atwood which is in Cedar Springs, worked with other logging companies.
01;52;23;28 - 01;52;24;16
Speaker 1
So I quickly.
01;52;24;16 - 01;52;49;21
Speaker 3
Became familiar with with timber values. And I always loved farm farmland. So I've always been buying, I've just been growing. So I do have some farmland that that farmers lease the ground, you know, to from it. But it's not very lucrative I mean maybe covers the taxes so got familiar with timber values I either wanted to buy in southwest Wisconsin or Southeast.
01;52;49;24 - 01;53;02;10
Speaker 3
This is like as this is probably right before Kelvin. And because I love hunting big bucks and Michigan is just so saturated with hunters and more hunters and Kent County per square mile than any other county in both states.
01;53;02;14 - 01;53;03;12
Speaker 1
Really never know the.
01;53;03;13 - 01;53;27;21
Speaker 3
And they don't necessarily all hunt Kent County but they go further and it's just very there's so many Kent County is so chopped up relative to some of these more rural places where everything's 100 or 200 acre parcel. So I wanted to go buy a hunting farm in one of these other states. Wisconsin was my first choice. I think COVID started to hit and land prices flat out double like overnight in.
01;53;27;24 - 01;53;28;10
Speaker 1
Know.
01;53;28;13 - 01;53;47;04
Speaker 3
In Wisconsin, like regular and prices just doubled. Yeah, in Ohio they didn't have as big of a jump identified a parcel went down but an agent down there bought it bought the very first parcel I looked at and loved it and then just got behind on there. So.
01;53;47;06 - 01;53;48;15
Speaker 2
that's great. I wish, I wish.
01;53;48;18 - 01;53;53;13
Speaker 1
I wish I was smart to never meet somebody that I can't like. Dang like know, you just.
01;53;53;13 - 01;54;11;00
Speaker 3
I mean, it's so easy. It's it's, you know, and I have a down, so now I don't even look at parcels down there and it's always it's like six and a half hours from here. So this is southeast Ohio, like close to like one of my pieces. I can see West Virginia. So it's like it's it's West Virginia, Kentucky, southeast, Ohio.
01;54;11;01 - 01;54;18;08
Speaker 3
It's right there. Very like pretty poor area still. So, yeah, I think I'm I, I hoped.
01;54;18;15 - 01;54;20;20
Speaker 2
A little bit of like Appalachia Yeah.
01;54;20;20 - 01;54;31;22
Speaker 3
Feel to it yeah yeah. So I would like to get like probably at this point I'd like to get like 2000 acres down there and just have that be as part, you know, part of my real estate slash hunting.
01;54;31;24 - 01;54;33;29
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's also, that's so cool.
01;54;34;01 - 01;54;43;04
Speaker 3
And the timber, I mean, yeah, that timber value, it's a slow, I think a slow path to wealth. But you know, every day I've got like a million trees growing one tiny bit bigger.
01;54;43;07 - 01;54;46;15
Speaker 1
So on real.
01;54;46;18 - 01;54;52;17
Speaker 2
But who's like you? So you're just working with somebody down there, the loggers down there that are planting the trees for you.
01;54;52;17 - 01;55;07;05
Speaker 3
And then I've got an agent down there who even, Well, look, I got a real estate agent, a logger who? Those are my two key pieces for me and identified it. And so I've been able to actually start getting off market pieces down there now, too, so.
01;55;07;07 - 01;55;12;15
Speaker 1
Wow. Yeah. Good stuff. It's really I mean, that's like.
01;55;12;17 - 01;55;13;25
Speaker 3
I got to focus at my.
01;55;13;28 - 01;55;17;06
Speaker 1
Experience of that, you know, like, that's like.
01;55;17;09 - 01;55;22;24
Speaker 2
That's core like, that's, it's almost like it's a hobby, right? Like, isn't I love land.
01;55;22;24 - 01;55;24;26
Speaker 3
I mean, more more than houses I love. I just love.
01;55;24;26 - 01;55;25;13
Speaker 2
Really.
01;55;25;15 - 01;55;25;23
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01;55;25;23 - 01;55;31;07
Speaker 2
So and, and is it is the draw to it literally the hunting or in the it's.
01;55;31;07 - 01;55;33;28
Speaker 1
Mostly just like okay I was going to say nature outdoors.
01;55;34;02 - 01;55;35;10
Speaker 3
yeah I yeah but.
01;55;35;10 - 01;55;44;02
Speaker 2
It's not like an investment value that like hey in 100 years when I have 10,000 acres of my own, like it's not that that's driving you.
01;55;44;02 - 01;55;59;27
Speaker 3
It's the Yeah, it's the hunt. I mean, all my hunt I have, I have now flipped too many hunting parcels and I mean I've usually you can sell the same thing. So that's the next component. US in southeast Ohio. Yeah. There are so many East Coast, all these East Coast hunters, New York, New Jersey.
01;55;59;28 - 01;56;01;12
Speaker 2
So you're starting to.
01;56;01;14 - 01;56;14;17
Speaker 3
See in southeast Ohio and in a bare piece of ground, you know, 5000 acres, that's like the marketing is trap that just a couple pictures from the road It these properties are hard to access.
01;56;14;20 - 01;56;15;12
Speaker 1
So so I.
01;56;15;12 - 01;56;38;09
Speaker 3
Buy this just raw piece of land and I get my my Amish excavator which that's a thing so he yeah. Doesn't have a car, doesn't have transportation but can hire him his excavator to be transported to my property in go put in the whole trail system for me. I've put in tree stands, you know, food plots and I'll put this on hunting property, you know, and market it.
01;56;38;12 - 01;56;40;09
Speaker 2
Yeah. This was a turnkey.
01;56;40;09 - 01;56;41;16
Speaker 1
They all videos.
01;56;41;16 - 01;56;43;04
Speaker 2
They get the picture. Yeah.
01;56;43;07 - 01;56;50;16
Speaker 3
So you go from two grand an acre to four or five grand an acre, you know on that. And that's way more politics. Yeah.
01;56;50;20 - 01;56;51;28
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;56;52;01 - 01;56;54;27
Speaker 2
So that is why that's crazy.
01;56;54;29 - 01;57;17;08
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's that. Yeah. So I don't know how much I, I got to be careful but Yeah sure Yeah. We, I think we will. I think that will be our next main hire is to I put out I got, I put out a Facebook post, got like a hundred applicants for a land manager position and I, I went through, I narrowed it down to like 30 and never ended up doing one interview.
01;57;17;10 - 01;57;25;13
Speaker 3
I still have guys, you know, asking me now, like, when are you going to fill that position? And I think I will soon, because that's the help I need.
01;57;25;13 - 01;57;29;27
Speaker 1
Because I'm having fun with it. But It is a it's a full time job. It's a full time job.
01;57;29;27 - 01;57;49;23
Speaker 3
So we get back to like there are so many pieces that, I mean, just bought a 35 acre for 71 grand like, yeah, that, that property just prime getting weight ready to be flipped and I don't have the time to go do it. It's tractor it's just a little tractor you know stands all fun stuff but I would love to do so.
01;57;49;25 - 01;57;51;13
Speaker 1
And I.
01;57;51;16 - 01;58;03;28
Speaker 2
It's cool that you you literally just go do it though like if you're like you're going to go figure it out and you're going to do it and you're okay with taking a licking, but you're going to go do it. Still like that? Pretty cool.
01;58;04;01 - 01;58;08;08
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I'm some of my buddies are doing it too. So some of that some of that acreage I bought in Ohio's with.
01;58;08;14 - 01;58;19;29
Speaker 2
But I just mean that the home flipping the whitetail business on the timber like timber, you're just going to go do it. You're going to go figure it out like here. I guess that's pretty cool.
01;58;20;04 - 01;58;20;26
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;58;20;29 - 01;58;32;07
Speaker 2
So you get 30 to 5, ten years out. Where are you hunting? Where are you at? Is in a tree stand somewhere or are you running.
01;58;32;07 - 01;58;34;17
Speaker 3
A family with far four children too? So yeah.
01;58;34;17 - 01;58;36;21
Speaker 2
But I'll be hunting. They'll be.
01;58;36;23 - 01;58;38;10
Speaker 1
Like you. I don't.
01;58;38;10 - 01;58;41;17
Speaker 3
Want to. I don't want to force them into my into my hobbies. So where do.
01;58;41;17 - 01;58;44;15
Speaker 2
You I mean, was it maybe you don't know yet, but I.
01;58;44;15 - 01;59;06;22
Speaker 3
Want to be on a 2000 acre farm in Iowa or Nebraska with the farm, with my cows, with the college family. And and so I have no idea. I doubt that will happen. I think I probably will be in West Michigan for life. It'd be crazy to leave. Sure. You know, business friends, I love our I love the West, I love agriculture country.
01;59;06;22 - 01;59;17;09
Speaker 3
And I've got to AP just definitely more weird city life. But I mean, I live in Sparta right now. I mean, I look out over corn bean fields, you know, for my house right now. So. So I definitely live there.
01;59;17;11 - 01;59;17;25
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01;59;17;25 - 01;59;22;20
Speaker 3
You're not a farmer. I got to test it out. We're getting chickens this week, So. So I'm going to.
01;59;22;22 - 01;59;23;22
Speaker 1
Do a little test sample.
01;59;23;23 - 01;59;29;28
Speaker 2
And then chickens are supposed to be, like, super easy and fantastic minus the poop everywhere. But.
01;59;29;28 - 01;59;30;20
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
01;59;30;25 - 01;59;34;24
Speaker 2
So it's like, I didn't realize it's a good day from a chicken to.
01;59;34;24 - 01;59;37;12
Speaker 3
Yeah, these are. Where do you meet chickens first? Okay.
01;59;37;14 - 01;59;38;01
Speaker 2
No.
01;59;38;03 - 01;59;39;29
Speaker 3
Because there's a, there's a end point to that.
01;59;39;29 - 01;59;43;10
Speaker 2
There's probably money to be made in this. So there's no.
01;59;43;13 - 01;59;49;01
Speaker 1
Day where you get out. Have you back in the U.S.? I know it's like I'm the I'm the biggest chicken.
01;59;49;01 - 01;59;51;04
Speaker 2
Producer in West Virginia.
01;59;51;06 - 01;59;53;02
Speaker 1
Yeah, I.
01;59;53;02 - 01;59;56;21
Speaker 3
Think I can say this on the podcast, but, you know, you should you need to have John Timmer on here.
01;59;56;25 - 01;59;57;17
Speaker 2
I would love to.
01;59;57;18 - 02;00;00;18
Speaker 3
And he bought and he bought a whole egg business.
02;00;00;21 - 02;00;03;11
Speaker 2
But it's just a business. I Yeah, somebody told me that.
02;00;03;11 - 02;00;09;01
Speaker 3
So he goes and buys it. It's like making no money. And then the whole member. The whole egg crisis. Yeah.
02;00;09;03 - 02;00;10;22
Speaker 1
right. Time. Right. Plus there's.
02;00;10;22 - 02;00;13;19
Speaker 2
Somebody that I heard story like he's been like he.
02;00;13;19 - 02;00;15;18
Speaker 3
Is lucky if he gets a golf ball in the woods.
02;00;15;23 - 02;00;24;04
Speaker 2
I'll take it any day. Yeah, I'll take luck any day it like is. But it's also putting yourself out there too, and like putting yourself in the business.
02;00;24;06 - 02;00;24;24
Speaker 1
Situation.
02;00;24;24 - 02;00;54;13
Speaker 2
And taking it. And then everyone's like, He's so lucky. Yeah, but like, I know a guy that bought he was buying old mill timber mills, like, right dilapidated rundown, and then all of a sudden lumber prices go the roof and all these mills start opening back up and like, like who would be buying mills that are rundown, dilapidated and like now all of a sudden it's like, like full fledged, like, crush it.
02;00;54;17 - 02;00;55;23
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's bizarre.
02;00;55;26 - 02;01;12;07
Speaker 3
The only thing I saw, like, John will have bad luck and then he didn't, but he just laughs it off. So it doesn't. But you know, the bad luck he doesn't take seriously and but like his he flips. He's flipped houses before too. And like, you know, he shows up in his roofers, our roof in the neighbor's house instead of his, you know, So.
02;01;12;10 - 02;01;15;08
Speaker 1
So also, he laughs. He finishes, a neighbor gets in.
02;01;15;08 - 02;01;16;23
Speaker 3
There and he pays for two.
02;01;16;28 - 02;01;17;15
Speaker 1
I just saw.
02;01;17;15 - 02;01;40;03
Speaker 2
A story where construction guys bought some land and on this property built. I can't remember me. It is maybe like a half a million 650,000 on our house. And it was a scam. They didn't actually buy the land. so now this guy that actually owns land is like suing them to, like, remove the house and put the put put the land back.
02;01;40;03 - 02;01;40;21
Speaker 1
Yeah, right.
02;01;40;21 - 02;01;52;07
Speaker 2
Because they chopped the bunch of trees down and stuff like to put it back in places like I'm like, can you imagine like, my word. So there's David's worst fear.
02;01;52;10 - 02;01;57;17
Speaker 3
So we have everything's very spreadsheet and organized, but we've occasionally forgot a house.
02;01;57;20 - 02;02;01;19
Speaker 1
So a shooting outside for like a few, not like for a few weeks.
02;02;01;20 - 02;02;07;27
Speaker 3
But at some point we're just going to forget we owned a house, period. And there's going to be a flip that sits out there for like two years.
02;02;08;00 - 02;02;23;28
Speaker 2
And I was like somewhat kind of mad at this. And he'll know who he is if he listens to you. But like, he's like, I brought him a purchase agreement for this property, this land, and it was a nice deal. And like, he's like.
02;02;24;00 - 02;02;24;08
Speaker 1
yeah, I.
02;02;24;08 - 02;02;33;09
Speaker 2
Forgot I owned that. And I was so mad, like, are you kidding me? I haven't. Are you're working on this? And they're like, it's like, yeah, this is great.
02;02;33;12 - 02;02;36;15
Speaker 1
How do we get cash from our boxes, actually?
02;02;36;17 - 02;02;44;00
Speaker 2
So, yeah, it's fun. Well, that dude, thank you so much for your loss. We probably owe you, like, 100 grand at this point.
02;02;44;00 - 02;02;45;16
Speaker 1
You know.
02;02;45;18 - 02;02;47;27
Speaker 3
All it's cracked up to be. But.
02;02;48;03 - 02;02;59;10
Speaker 2
But, yeah, I mean, like, people want to find you or bring you deals. Like, is that okay for them to look you on to Calabasas homes or to a gated homes or. Yeah, where should they go And.
02;02;59;18 - 02;03;06;02
Speaker 3
Do think my, my email address is just it's just my name and email that comes as Calvin Beckett gmail.com. So yeah.
02;03;06;04 - 02;03;08;11
Speaker 2
I don't bring them hot deals for me.
02;03;08;14 - 02;03;12;04
Speaker 3
For me ten cap. Perfect. You know, commercial.
02;03;12;04 - 02;03;13;07
Speaker 1
Single, single.
02;03;13;10 - 02;03;15;15
Speaker 3
Single tenant by the airport.
02;03;15;16 - 02;03;21;03
Speaker 1
Boy, how awesome. Bringing commercial finance at 3%. If you're doing.
02;03;21;03 - 02;03;26;06
Speaker 2
Commercial then you got any agents Listen don't go You're acting.
02;03;26;08 - 02;03;36;21
Speaker 1
Out your market for me. No, because I'm actually going to buy a four. I'd be. No, no. All partners. Even if you're wholesale, it's you. Yeah, I'm not too arrogant.
02;03;36;24 - 02;03;37;21
Speaker 2
I'll take 49.
02;03;37;23 - 02;03;38;20
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02;03;38;22 - 02;03;41;09
Speaker 2
No, no, no. Thank you. Seriously.
02;03;41;09 - 02;03;42;23
Speaker 1
Thank you so time. Yeah.
02;03;43;00 - 02;03;44;27
Speaker 3
It's been an honor to be on here. Thanks, guys.