How Did You Do That?

Join industry leaders Kevin VanHaitsma, Trent Wieringa, Chris Prins, and Max Grover in a dynamic panel discussion moderated by Jordan Wenzel. Explore the insider stories and strategies behind their successful journeys in starting and thriving in commercial real estate. Gain valuable insights, tips, and practical advice on navigating the challenges, building a solid foundation, and achieving success in the competitive world of commercial real estate. 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Thank you guys so much. Really appreciate it, and, um, you'll have to share this this part of it. So Yeah. Absolutely. Hopefully, you guys can hear me in the back.

[00:00:15] Yeah? Can you still? Okay. Cool. Yeah.

[00:00:17] Thanks, Tom. Please. We can. Okay. So thanks for coming.

[00:00:20] Yeah. Um, this is just General's theme here. Let's start basic. Um, it's quote unquote, how did you do that? So So we're gonna kinda hit that first step in the industry like myself, six months.

[00:00:32] Super new, super early, um, into that next, I would say, Step, um, little more aged, if you will. Um, so we'll start with just a we'll do a kind of a three Hart here will do an introduction, topic questions, and then we'll open up for, uh, q and a. So to start, we'll have you guys go around, do your, uh, name, company, Years in the industry, um, and then how you got into the industry. You wanna start? Go for it.

[00:01:00] I'll start? Uh, Max Grover. I'm a partner at Moxie. And years I think it's, like, eleven years that I've been doing this now. Still, I go into a room, and I I I just did this yesterday.

[00:01:15] I met with the potential client yesterday, and they looked at me like, I'm, like, twelve years old pulling up. You can you always get, like, that stare. I don't know if you guys get that too. I'm sure you do. Or you get this look like, I expect you to be a little bit older this.

[00:01:28] Um, and then what was the last question? How'd you get in the industry? Oh, how did I get into the industry? So it was, like, two thousand Two thousand twelve, two thousand thirteen, graduating college. I had done an internship with CWD, um, downtown.

[00:01:44] Knew I wanted to get into brokerage and Commission sales and started calling offices around town, and they're like, dude, you you realize what the hell just happened. Right? Like, the whole world just blew up. We're not hiring new people. Um, so I I made some cold calls around town trying to figure out who might take me on.

[00:02:02] And I'm like, oh, there's a Grover Real Estate that does commercial real estate, that guy will hire me. So I called called Arnie, and, We met down at Arnie's, of course, on Leonard and, uh, didn't look back from theirs. So that's that's how I got in. Uh, my name is Chris Prins. I am with Dar Commercial.

[00:02:22] I've been in the industry for about ten years now. Um, similar to Mac's story about the baby face. My wife always reminds me that she never got an ID till we started dating. So, um, got the baby face. And how I got into the industry, I knew Duke Soon, Um, now at Advance was at Calviers.

[00:02:38] I played baseball with his son, so I think I was at my junior year at Grand Valley. Didn't know what I wanted to do and started reaching out to some people, and Duke said, hey. Come on in for an interview. We'll see we'll see kinda what happens and stuff. And from From there, kinda got into a research role.

[00:02:52] I've I always say that it's true. The first few weeks, I had no idea what anyone at was doing. I didn't understand the commercial real estate industry at all and just kind of, Um, week by week or day by day, week by week, kinda grew into it more and more. So Uh, Trent Wiringa, partner with Advantage, I've been about twelve years now. Uh, how I got into the industry?

[00:03:14] Well, I guess I I'll tell a baby face story as well. Couple months ago, Mark can attest to this. We had a, uh, partner retreat going to a casino, eighteen and up, and I'm blessed and No surprise. They're like, I gotta see your ID. So I have been in the business for twelve years.

[00:03:34] So, Uh, I got into it. I was similar to Chris, an intern at Colliers. Uh, had a connection To Duke as well, uh, through my dad and, uh, started out in a research research role and then ended up working, uh, actually under Matt Abraham for Period. And then, uh, joined the industrial group at that time. Yeah.

[00:03:56] Kevin with Bradley Company started October of Fifteen at Bradley Company. Um, it was it is why I wanted to go last. First of all, I do not get the, uh, the baby face comments quite as often, uh, or Friday. But, um, also the only one here, and I did not know that for sure. This is my second career.

[00:04:13] So my first ten years post College, I was in the tennis and health club industry. So I was a teaching pro tennis full court or for full time on court for the first two years, And then tennis manager at the Michigan Athletic Club for five years. And then after that, I was the operations manager of the Mac where for the last, uh, two and a half years. But that was also my intro into commercial real estate as two thousand eight, two thousand nine, two thousand ten recession hit. Membership goes down.

[00:04:42] Um, you learned the clubs were owned by St. Mary's Hospital, which were leasing to third party real estate owners. Um, and then at that time, the hospital decided not renew their leases as they need to focus their capital on buying more hospital beds and less on capital improvements on the health club. So the the clothes were sold. CWE, the the CWD, that's where you see fresh thyme, and now MVP has Creighton and, Um, Burton as well.

[00:05:10] So you see right? Things change. So at that time, it was, um, you know, we were private tennis facility of the year, uh, I was a state member of the year in Michigan, so I'm fourteen. So I was in a business that I knew kinda, you know, every the ins and out of and, Uh, you're very comfortable with, and then it was starting over scratch where these guys were, where you enter into the commercial real estate world, and you don't really know. So it was, at that time, Make a decision to either move, had a job offer in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, be a head pro at Van der Mer Tennis Academy, or find a new career.

[00:05:41] Uh, and at the time, one of the part time teaching pros was John Mandel at the clubs who started the the Bradley Grand Rapids branch, so he was there for the first couple years. That was the intro and gave me a foot in the door at the time. Thank you. Thank you. So circling back a little Oh.

[00:05:56] Little more in-depth to that first year, You guys go into a little bit more of, I guess, what maybe one thing you learned, um, and one challenge that kinda sticks out. Man, one thing I learned I should've studied your agenda a little bit better. One thing I learned One thing I think I learned what was, one, I'm not that special. Like, in the first year, you learn you're not that special. Like, that, you know, just because you hang your That you're in real estate, that people are gonna do business with you.

[00:06:28] Um, and and I think, Yeah. I I'll I'll leave it at that. I'll let Chris go. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:35] So my first year, uh, I started out as a research Roll. So I did the research roll. It was canvassing buildings, driving around, trying to get to know, you know, what's happening in West Michigan. I think I was there for Six months. And then Mark, Mike, and Earl, um, asked me to be their retail admin.

[00:06:51] So I kinda split. I became the retail admin for a while, so I was doing a lot of paperwork. And I look back at those times, and it was so beneficial because I got to be part of, like, the shops at West Shore, um, the shops at Centerpoint. I got to sit in the car with Mike Murray and Earl Clements While they gave tours to Chick fil A, understand, okay, how does Chick fil A look for sites? And, you know, there was there was struggles.

[00:07:11] There was times where it was like, what in the world am I doing? Like, I remember talking to other people in, um, that I knew and saying, okay. Am I am I maybe doing the right career path that I'm doing? Because it it's so easy to to to look and see all the The hours that you put into it and the struggles and stuff, but I know for a fact, like, I wouldn't be to where I am today without Mark, Mike and Earl. I mean, they were such an influence on my career, especially those early years.

[00:07:35] Much better answer. Yeah. Thanks thanks for Chris. I'll follow that up. Um, my my first year, I was similar to Chris.

[00:07:44] I started as a Research intern, and I figured out very quickly, I'm not that smart. I'm not detail oriented, And I do not have a future in research nor do I want it. So and I I was kinda told that as well. So Um, so I I also I'm, you know, I was at the page. I was about to graduate college, and, I could you can get a glimpse of the brokerage world, and it was it was attractive, entertaining.

[00:08:12] It was fast paced, and, I thought I could I could probably figure that out. So I, uh, yeah, that's I ended up working under Matt Abraham for a little bit, and then that Transition into a brokerage role, but, uh, the first year was it was I mean, you're really just you're learning the business more than More than anything, before you're even out there trying to do deals and trying to, you know, build a book of business, you're you're really learning the business more than anything. Language. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:08:43] Same. I think that first year is just especially when you're starting from scratch, You know nothing. Right? You're going in. You're trying to figure out.

[00:08:50] You're trying to learn the terminology. Uh, I remember driving down twenty eighth Street, Wealthy everywhere. John Mondale, you go in the car you're driving, and he's naming the owner of every single building and the story behind it. You're like, how in the world do you know that? Um, and it takes a long time to start building that up and the understanding how does ownership connect to each other.

[00:09:09] Those first year or two, I mean, You have no idea you're calling. I remember, uh, door knocking, getting kicked out. I mean, threatened to be sued. Like, he just say, hey. Go door knock these areas.

[00:09:18] Like, you don't know where you're Starting, you don't know what's going on. You're just trying to learn and, uh, and it takes some time to get to that point. Yeah. Absolutely. It's mind blowing how, I relate to everything you just said, being exactly in that spot.

[00:09:31] So even being the kicked out of, uh, building, it's fun stuff. Um, so Diving in almost a little to the three year out. So there's that first year struggle. It's pretty similar when a lot of people talk about that First year. Looking at that third year, hoping to get a little closer glimpse to, okay, I see some potential here.

[00:09:54] Um, what was that kind of certain things you learned in that third year, um, and what are some things that you would potentially do differently to either To get to that third year or to get to there faster? I think, uh, years one through three weren't much Different than me. It wasn't I mean, it was just trying to get something rolled, something uphill, and you don't know anybody. You don't know the terminology. Um, but I guess it it was pretty much all the same, but there was maybe one or two transactions that I got through that I'm like, okay.

[00:10:27] Like, I can do this. I can actually I I can actually see this being a career for me at this point. Um, but then also, it's it it's just never One through three, it's a it's a grind. It doesn't stop being a grind at year three or something like that. Like, all of a sudden, you feel like, oh, yeah.

[00:10:46] I've made it at this point. Um, and then what was the second part of that? What would I do what would I do differently? I would probably I would meet with more people, um, even brokers, and just constantly trying to learn the language. It's a different language for everybody.

[00:11:04] So I would try and just ask for as many meetings as I possibly could because that's one thing you do have at that point is you have time. And cold calling and And knocking doors, a parking lot's empty. You know? Why? Go knock the door.

[00:11:17] Parking lot's overflowing. Why? Go knock the door. And I wish I I just would've I I wish I would have done more of that. Just more of that.

[00:11:26] Yeah. Very similar story. It comes to what Max said. Those first One to three years, you're kinda just trying to figure it out. Um, when I was doing my research role, I remember Ben was at at the moment, and, um, him and Matt Abraham would take me cold calling.

[00:11:38] And then I was able to learn from Trent as well too who would just continue to go cold calling, knocking on doors, trying to put a foot in the door and get to know a business owner or who the who the The, um, the tenant was and just trying to understand that side of the story. But to to Max's situation, it it it was just it's a lot of grinding. It's a lot of just trying to figure it out. If I was to do it again, um, being at Colliers, I was terrified of him at the moment, but I wish I would've gotten to know Ray Kaiser a little bit more. And sat down with him and had a little bit more of a lunch, but he absolutely terrified me.

[00:12:04] So I can say that now he's not he's not Totally terrifies me. So I can say that now, but it's not you. Mhmm. Um, Yeah. Year year three for me was You know, and I and I've always been in in I've always done industrial, but, uh, I mean, coming out of twenty fourteen, fifteen is there was a little bit of a little bit of little bit of an on switch coming out of two thousand nine then, and there there were transactions.

[00:12:29] There were opportunities out there. I so, you know, my my third year, I I know Colliers used to have the, uh, the reward strip or the success strip, and that was always a A huge goal of mine to hit that. Um, and I remember thinking like, oh, once I go on there, I'll I'll feel like I'm accomplished and I can do this. And then That was the first year I hit it, and I still don't know that I feel accomplished that I can do this. But it's so it's it is a humbling Business and even if you think you're once you get to a point, it'll be a lot easier.

[00:13:02] It's I mean, it's it's not. It's it's really it's just a continual grind, and you But, yeah, you end up enjoying it. I mean and I think, really, year three is when I started to kinda appreciate that, and then also, Um, you learn how to deal with it better. But, uh, and and similar to Chris, I, you know, I thought of what would I do different if I was in year three? One, I would have been I would have been more intentional of what business I was chasing, why I was chasing it.

[00:13:30] Uh, I would have, You know, the years of knowledge and experience we had at Colliers between, I mean, numerous guys, but I I you know, you're always so scared to go talk interact with them, and and these guys are always so busy that you're just you don't even feel like you know, you you don't even dare go knock on the door. Uh, I was more scared to go knock on, you know, Ray or Duke's door than I was to go knock on a, you know, a door cold calling. So but I I really wish And, you know, I really wish in hindsight, I would have tapped into their knowledge and and their experience sooner rather than later. So and and I will say those As you you know, those guys are always and a lot of the senior guys are always more than happy and willing to help. It's just they don't have the Time to come approach you.

[00:14:15] I mean, if you if you approach them, it's it's rare someone's gonna shut you down in this business. So Yeah. I think year one, you're kind of scattered. You're all over the place. I think I didn't do my first deal for six months, and that first check was Two hundred dollar girls commission.

[00:14:32] Right? They're like, well, I got a deal done, but it's not really doing anything. And then you're two and three. As Max is saying too, I think you're trying to figure out, Can you make this a long term career? Um, I did a few more deals, at least paid some bills in the year two and three, but it's still scattered.

[00:14:47] I took my first listing because you find you start to meet people and, hey. I got an opportunity. First listing, I think, I took was almost to the Indiana border. There's a forty thousand dollar restaurant shack that she owned a portfolio with, hey. This is my pain point.

[00:15:00] Can you help me on offload this? You know, by the time, uh, you drive back and Fourth, you do five tours. You're like, what am I doing here? Uh, wasting a lot of time. So you're trying to figure things out, what areas you wanna focus on, Um, but it's still scattered.

[00:15:13] The deal volume is pretty low, but it's you're trying to figure out where do you wanna go, what areas of focus, and And also, uh, geography. Um, I think the other big thing that I learned in, you know, year two and three, I went through the same process. The tennis director of the club's Transitioned to him, became a CPA, financial advisor. Um, at the same time, successful, great networker, recruiter, and, We so we went through the same kind of transition together in different fields. Um, also a very good referral source, but big thing was get belly to belly.

[00:15:43] There was we tell this, The appropriate all time too is don't do emails the whole time. Don't do phone calls. Find a way to get belly to belly and meet people, Um, is that's where you can talk to them, learn about them, read their their body language, and you just need meetings, especially anything. If it's a decision maker, you have to be face to face with them. Belly to belly.

[00:16:02] Right? Yeah. No. Absolutely. Um, I I especially like, um, Trent, you pointed out, you know, A lot of us think that it's almost like a hump you'd go over.

[00:16:12] Like, I could see your three once you cross that finish line. It's gonna be, you know, downhill from there, but it's a good point that, you know, this business is continue to be continue to be a grind. Um, focusing a little bit more or diving into that kinda that turning point. You You guys kinda said, okay. Maybe you're three.

[00:16:28] It still stays hard, but you get a little more confidence or a little bit more skills. What are some of those things, Some of those skills, some of those differentiators that kinda really helped you guys to to persevere. Oh my goodness. I really should've heard you say before I got here. I mean, I I don't I Still, it's funny.

[00:16:51] Like, I mean, you had ten, twelve years in, and it's like, you don't feel like there's this turning point. And I'm sure if you talk to Guys that have been doing it for thirty, forty years, that there's not some big defining moment of, like, you made it. Like, you you maybe made it for that win that day. And then it's like every time you start feeling like you've got it figured out and you know what you're doing, you get humbled So quick. You get humbled so quick, and so it's just it that's a hard one to answer.

[00:17:21] You know? Differ. Yeah. So the story I have is, um, so I mostly work retail and restaurants. And Mike Murray was fortunate enough to say, hey.

[00:17:30] I think you should work on this AutoZone account And we so we reported to someone corporate over at AutoZone, and this guy was probably seventy five years old. So So old school guy, he'd been with AutoZone since they, I think, had, like, five stores. So he's been very, very experienced, and he was I'll just be honest. He's a total hard ass. He would get all over me all the time about what what bad jobs I was doing and stuff, and you can't do this right.

[00:17:54] And it would it was just scrutinizing over the little stuff I'm like, in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? But taking that criticism and being able to to harness it and say, okay. How can I learn from this? And it was such a big part because from the retail standpoint, I think at the end of the day, you kind of you want landlord representation, but tenant representation is something in my book of business now that I just love having it, and learning from those experiences early on from AutoZone was huge for me. Now you know why Mike brought you in.

[00:18:27] Punching back. What was the question, Tyra? What, I guess, skills or what differentiators it helped you get to that next step? Yeah. Specifically, you.

[00:18:38] Like You like year five. When did you feel like you made it essentially over the hump? I don't know. I I don't know, and I still feel like I'm the hump. I mean and I and I think part of that is is just feeling the I feel like once you feel like you're over the hump is when you're coasting.

[00:18:51] And once you're coasting Yep. I don't know if you should be in the business. So Yeah. I that's kinda my my that's my mentality on it. But, Um, what do you think?

[00:19:02] Really, it was just I don't know. Like, I failure wasn't an option, especially having, You know, I got a wife and three kids at home. I I didn't really have another choice, and I, uh, I'm too stubborn to go work for somebody else. And I don't have any other skills to go start a different business. So I like, I mean, it's it's literally that simple.

[00:19:25] Too deep. Just too deep. What else am I gonna do? So it's it's you know, it's you dig it out of the dirt. You find it.

[00:19:31] You grind it, and, Yeah. You just you figure it out. I mean, it's it's really it's it's not rocket science. It's just if you work hard I mean, it's it's it's truly one of the businesses. Every Effort and doubt and every effort and hour you put in, you get out.

[00:19:46] You know? I mean, and that's that's what I love about it. So I'm gonna have the exact same answer as all these guys, and I had this written down here as you don't feel like you ever make it. Right? I mean, it's a daily process.

[00:19:59] It's it's a daily fight. Right. And, uh, for me, the turning point towards, hey. You're starting to have some success even though you don't feel like you're ever there is for me, it was a couple. One is The commitment.

[00:20:11] I was, uh, the full time women's head coach at Calvin Yap from two thousand thirteen until nineteen, so I was running kinda two full time Roles, you know, that was part time. It was it's a full time commitment. Um, and I think that was one of my turning points was I had, like, I had to step down. I'm just going full into commercial real estate. Um, same with you guys too.

[00:20:30] We have family support. Um, that is a pretty critical, uh, move to say, you're gonna pick The phone, if you have any hesitation, the cold call, anything they need, that's a pretty good motivation when, uh, you're trying to support the family as well. So one is just Commitment level, you're going all in. I know there are a lot of new brokers that will try and do a couple part time jobs. You know, come they're coming from a different industry and say, hey.

[00:20:50] I'm gonna do brokerage. But really until you are full and you're committed, that's your only way to do it. So because you have to breathe it, live it in order to service clients and win business. Um, and the second part For me was and that was a little on the Bradley side too was continued growth of people. The continued addition that, you know, Jeff Tucker, Drew Nelson came in, twenty sixteen.

[00:21:10] Nice senior brokers to learn from, partner with. We worked well together. Um, and then Bradley acquired X Ventures in John eighteen. So, yeah, Bill Bowling, Chip Bowling, Katie, add an additional quality brokers that you learn from because everybody has different skill set. Um, and when we partner on different deals, you learn from each other, and it's it's nonstop.

[00:21:28] So, like, one is you gotta be committed, and then second is you start just partnering with Quality brokers that know what they're doing, and hopefully, it wears off on you. Definitely. Yeah. I can see that already in My my career, how important it is to surround yourself around people who, one, know what they're doing, and two, are willing to just lend a hand, get you on that AutoZone deal no matter how bad it might be. Um, but, yeah, moving to a couple more sporadic questions.

[00:21:54] Um, I wanna hit on, uh, referral sources. One of you guys mentioned that earlier. Um, how do you guys build those professional relationships with people, um, and where do you look to do that? Oh, man. Um, I mean, the the cool thing about our business is we get to hang four by four bill bar billboards all over town And getting those calls off those signs and bringing them in, and maybe that specific property doesn't work, but bouncing something off of that is huge.

[00:22:24] Um, I'm I've done and I do some networking, like, forced networking groups, which is not easy for me, but I do them And I've gotten decent business out of them. Um, Yeah. I mean, it's and then it's just word-of-mouth. And, like, once you get that lead Actually working it and and getting doing doing the work for them. And then, you know, two years down the road, even if it's a two hundred dollar commission and twelve hundred square foot lease.

[00:22:51] Hey. That probably could and and it will turn into that ten thousand, um, twenty thousand square foot lead down the road too. Yeah. Similar to Max, um, just being engaged, being at events like this, I think it's huge. Uh, you know, when I was at Colliers and still to this day at Dar, being part of, like, ICSC has been huge for me.

[00:23:11] Um, just getting to know all brokers on the east side of state. Um, Um, I have a couple firms like Mid America and Keystone who will send me referrals and just say, hey. This is Chris Prins. Deal with it. I've got to know some master brokers from that too, which is really nice.

[00:23:22] Um, I have one master broker that I work with over in Wisconsin and then another in Illinois, and they'll pitch me. I'm like, hey. I have a broker in my office who has this concept not yet in Michigan. Do Do you think they're right for Michigan to just looking through that and being able to help them, um, make that judgment call if Michigan's right for them or not? And just having that network, Don't ever try to close any doors off because you never know where an opportunity is gonna come from.

[00:23:46] Um, Yeah. I mean, First, referrals. I'll I'll touch on referrals first and then talk about networking. Um, referrals are their goal in this business, whether it's an internal referral or an external referral. And, You know, there might be times too where you get a referral from a senior broker in your office, and it's, uh, you know, it's They're referring to you for a reason.

[00:24:06] You're kinda like, I really don't know that I wanna take this. But if you, you know, if you take it, work your tail off, do a good job on it. Next time they have something else, they're in a pinch they need help for, I mean, where where is the first place they're gonna go? So I referrals are great. Um, not all referrals are great, But following through on referrals and, you know, and showing that you're dependable and and worthy of getting more referrals down the road is is huge.

[00:24:33] Um, and then as far as, like, networking goes, building network, um, I I should go to more networking events, frankly. Uh, but I would I regret not doing more when I was single, um, or when I didn't have kids. You know, now it's with three kids at home. They go to bed at seven thirty. If I If I get home at seven thirty, I they'll see my kids for that.

[00:24:54] So get your kids down by seven thirty? My wife Let's get on the side. Let's deep dive into that part of it. Have part of it too. My yeah.

[00:25:02] My my wife does. I I should I should not say we, but my wife does. Yeah. Um, but, yeah, I mean I mean, networking events are great. I've I've also benefited from some national networking, uh, events, whether it's working on deals in other markets And doing more multi kind of multi market work now, uh, you know, working with a client that needs a new building in Texas or, um, you know, being able to pick the phone up and call someone that's reputable is great, and, you know, eventually, There's you know, that referral source is gonna come back too.

[00:25:37] So Yeah. They the referral one is tough, so Don't expect a lot of them to come in from my experience, especially early on. Right? Your referrals are rare, um, but it's building that professional network where you start referring back and out Alright. Back and forth.

[00:25:52] So one of the things is refer to others. Right? So if you have a network, refer clients to them, and then the chance of coming back Go way up. So make sure that you're doing it both, you know, back and forth, not just hoping for us come to you, but also giving back to them. Um, The other part is, you know, then it's building that network that you have and whether it's residential agents, um, that are in touch with a lot of people and and real estate, but on the commercial side, but, uh, you know, CPAs, attorneys, uh, and then, yeah, anything that take care of your clients.

[00:26:21] So I think you're talking about that too is If you land a couple of nice clients, work your tail off for them, um, and then they'll refer outside of that too. And the last thing is Ask. Right? If you have clients you do well for them, ask. I mean, they're not just gonna do it, but go and ask them for referrals.

[00:26:36] Say, hey. Hopefully, we had a good experience. Who else do you know that we can help with? I would say, you know, uh, love to continue to help out with you, but if you have anybody else we can connect with, just ask for Definitely. Yeah.

[00:26:49] And you see a lot of these, I guess, networking and all this type of thing. It it gets you a lot of leads and that type of thing. Um, from what I've seen, a lot of these can be one off Clients, one off deals, small or big, whatever they may be. What's your guys' approach on taking those from one offs to repeat Or, you know, really cherishing that relationship. I don't think there's a secret to that.

[00:27:15] I mean, it's just Doing the basics, right, and taking care of that client. And the next time it comes around, they're gonna pick up the phone. And if you don't, and if it's a They're probably not. So I don't think there's some major secret on that. It's just literally it's it's performing and executing for that that group, and they're gonna call you back.

[00:27:34] Yeah. I agree with Max. I think it just goes back to that golden rule. Right? Treat others as you'd wanna be treated.

[00:27:38] It comes down. It's that simple in my opinion. Yeah. You you never know what, uh, what a client or a deal will grow into. Um, I remember one of the first deals I did was a Six month lease on a four thousand square foot industrial building, um, for a client.

[00:27:57] And Eight years later, it it turned into multiple more, you know, building sale, two land acquisitions. Um, yeah. I mean, multiple other leases, and it's you know, you just you never know where it's gonna go. So Yeah. Same.

[00:28:13] I think as you start out, you take business from anyone and everywhere, um, gain experience, and then The more the years go by and you build up your client base slowly and surely, right, take care of them, do a great job, then hopefully, as you go down and you're partnering maybe with senior brokers, you get Connected to portfolio owners and, uh, maybe ones that will be repeat clients ongoing. It's, uh, the start, I think it's Lot of one offs. Um, and it it takes a while to build the clientele to and you'll still do those, but it takes a while to build them up. So, yeah, you can, uh, work with some that maybe you don't have as many clients and but you could do more deals with them? Mhmm.

[00:28:48] Absolutely. Makes sense. Completely does. Uh, you guys mentioned earlier Talking to older people in the office, that type of thing. Um, when it comes to those older gentlemen in the office who are women, um, mentors and that type of thing, Where have you guys found the line as asking for help and kinda being almost a nuisance?

[00:29:08] Because I feel like there's a lot of A lot of people and kind of in that early age where it's like, man, I wanna ask ten, twenty questions in the next five minutes. But where is that line that you guys have seen? Um, I I don't I think you just have to ask, and I think you have to be willing to be a nuisance. And I think, like like, you have to be willing to ask for the business. You have to be able to ask for help because and I I've done I did it in the past.

[00:29:35] I'm sure I still do it Somewhat now, but it's like, you you just have to you have to deal with it. And if you don't know how, you have to pick up you have to figure it out for somebody or somebody's gonna lose or, Uh, somebody else is gonna win, and and so I think it's it just comes down to that. You know? Yeah. I would say always ask.

[00:29:54] I mean, I I go to Daryl Over at my office, uh, all the time just asking questions about, hey. What happened with this? Or you just ask her, oh, hey. What's this building on Plainfield? And he'll give you a Ten minutes story about the building and stuff.

[00:30:05] So it's it's just fun. And I remember back to my days at Cal years too. We used to have it was called this next generation event. Um, I think Tim Venore had set it up where we would have a couple of the senior brokers sit down on, like, a Thursday afternoon at four o'clock. We'd all have a happy hour, and we would just pepper them with questions And get to hear their backstory of how they got into the industry, um, what were six what were successes, what were hardships, and just be able to pick their brain a little bit.

[00:30:29] I think that was so beneficial. So I think for some of the the senior folks, that's huge too because we as Trent and I mentioned, we we weren't always coming up to some of those senior guys because we were terrified. Being able to sit down with that next generation and just be able to shed some light is huge for them. Yeah. I'd I'd say that.

[00:30:47] I mean, the hardest part about asking is actually going in there and asking. So, I mean, it's it's yeah. It's that simple, I guess. And as You know, being a partner and other junior brokers or younger people that have partners in their office, like, if there's a Situation that's you know, someone needs guidance on, like, one, it's the right thing to do, but also, like, as a partner, You know, they, like, they they wanna know what's going on. They wanna make sure it's done the right way.

[00:31:14] So, um, it yeah. I'd encourage you to come and ask. So and if we're too busy, we'll say come back later. Same. Yeah.

[00:31:22] It's it's you just gotta ask a question, but I think a big thing too with, uh, the younger brokers is Show your work ethic that you're doing. So I know, Jordan, you're you've done it better than almost any young broker coming into as you're early. You're there before eight AM. You're staying late. And if we know that you're working hard to work your tail off, I mean, it's a lot easier to have that door open, come and ask questions.

[00:31:42] If you're showing up at Ten o'clock, right, in the morning and leaving early and right in that door, it may be not quite as welcoming just to answer any and all questions. But if you're working hard and, uh, and also just adding value, bring them a lead. Hey. Hey. I got this lead for you.

[00:31:56] Do you have a chance? Uh, can I partner can I bring you on the deal? Mean, that'll get ears perked up as well. Right? So it's, uh, be accountable while you're on time and then pass for the business.

[00:32:06] Oh, absolutely. Um, looking at our market, obviously, it's not the greatest time in the world to maybe jump into this industry, but those who have, Um, I know you are going to. Um, where do you guys see opportunities for new agents right now, right here? You wanna start? Start down there.

[00:32:26] Sure. Sure. Thank you. Appreciate that, Kyle. Really good answer.

[00:32:30] I just wanna see what you say first. I would say a couple I think one pattern we're seeing a little bit in the market is there's some next generation money, Uh, being handed out a couple times. So if you know the younger members of the family building relationships with them early on. Um, and then I think the second thing For younger brokers is mastering technology that senior brokers don't wanna touch. Right?

[00:32:54] If you can take control of the research tools, if you're diving into AI, anything that can Really take advantage and bring it to the next level. I think that is something that the the older generation might not wanna touch, uh, that you can bring a lot of value too. So that might be an opening that, you know, you can tack on and others just aren't going to. Um, I think, uh, speaking on just my from my point of view, I think, really, there's a lot of opportunity being a young guy in a office this with some senior guys. Um, I know you know, I wish I had more time to go cold call and do the Business development and find new deals.

[00:33:36] Um, and there's more and more stuff that I ask myself, why the heck am I doing this on a daily basis? And I I I definitely think there's an opportunity there, and I think there's there's a lot of opportunities within the four walls you work, Uh, which I think is an interesting place to look. Um, I know I never really did that as a junior broker. Um, and then There's there's always deals out there. It doesn't I mean, the market's constantly changing or evolving.

[00:34:02] It's it's never it's never a good time to get in the business. So it's, Yeah. Just go figure it out. Yeah. I would agree with a lot with what what Trent said.

[00:34:14] I would also Get to know the affiliates as well too. Get to know your bankers. Get to know your title companies, your environmental companies. They're a huge book of business, And they were more than willing to help you as the guys in your office are. And don't be just be willing to walk into our senior broker's office.

[00:34:29] They may have an assignment that they're saying, you know what? I just can't work on this anymore. Um, help me with it. Obviously, you may have to pay a referral, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world. You show that senior broker that, okay, I can take the lead on a project, And they're gonna give you more and more opportunities.

[00:34:46] Okay. Good. From the amount of time to think about this now. Um, I I think there's opportunity in in every single market like you guys said, and that's probably why brokers frustrate people so much is because they can make money on the way up with the market, and, you know, they can make it on the way down too. And it's really when it gets to these, like, stagnation points where it's, like, stops, where there's not That it's that it's hard for us, but at some point, it's gonna rubber band one way or the other.

[00:35:16] So I think there's huge in that. And then the other thing, Sherry, what's the average age of car right now? Hundred and ten. It's a hundred and ten years old. Outside, I think it's, like fifty six?

[00:35:28] It's fifty six years old. So, I mean, you're and how old are you, Jordan? Uh, twenty two. I mean, fifty six, see another twenty years from now, and those guys there's gonna be a there's gonna be a big group of young guys, and you're Dean, um, I I've we went into the Young Guns event or whatever it's called with CAR recently, and, um, shame on me. I didn't even know some of the guys, but there is a Good group of young people.

[00:35:53] So that that's huge opportunity too. Great point. The the concept of a whole deal, the process, um, really, you know, like you said, that first year is almost learning that whole process. One of the hardest things, of course, I'm sure it goes forever is that close. That that finish line, you you finish, you close, you sign, you get the What have you guys found?

[00:36:20] Maybe little snippets or little keys to just get deals across that finish line? Mark, you wanna take this one? Maybe, Kevin. Maybe. Kevin should start It's getting deals across the finish line.

[00:36:38] Um, honestly, I think it's just trying to get ahead of it on the front end, and it shouldn't be this mad dash Scramble on the backside. It's it's looking at the deal, and you might not know right away being brand new in the industry, but what are the pitfalls in addressing them right away? And the sooner that you can start ruling those things out, whether it's zoning or surveys or, um, land splits or environmental, if you can Start ruling those things out. The earlier, the better. And then, I mean, at the at the last hour and the last minute, like, if you're dealing with stuff, Something at that point, it's probably not a good sign anyways.

[00:37:12] So, um, it's just addressing those things, seeing them. And, like, when I first started out, I would see some of those pitfalls, and I'm like, is that really a pitfall or not? And then it would come up, like, a month from then, and you're like, Oh, yeah. Shoot. It was definitely a pitfall.

[00:37:27] Should've brought this up. Should've done something about that. And so I think it's just addressing those things and and doing it. Yep. Yeah.

[00:37:34] I would agree with Trent or sorry with Trent, with Max. Um, a lot of it is just communication. Just be upfront. There's some deals I work on Where it's okay. I gotta handhold you through.

[00:37:43] Okay? Order a survey. Talk to your lender. There's other deals where put it under contract and then step back, and we'll contact you in six months and Tell you we're ready to close. So I think it's just being upfront honest with your client and saying, what do you need from me in this transaction?

[00:38:00] Yeah. I I think, uh, every deal is different, and you I mean, the the best thing you can the best thing you can do is Kill a deal as quickly as you can. If it's gonna die, like, it it's better if it dies in day one than on day fifty nine, the day before close. So Sure. For everybody.

[00:38:17] Um, so noticing and realizing what those landmines are and uncovering them as soon as you can. Um, but Every, you know, every deal is different. You wish I wish you had control over every everything in a deal, but sometimes they fall apart for stuff you can't Control. But, uh, and then the other thing I've I've realized is just being as open and transparent as you can to where, Obviously, you can't, uh, give a fiduciary to your client, but being as open and transparent as you can will, you know, make things go way smoother for everybody in the long run. And A lot of times that'll, you know, that'll get a deal closed or it could, you know, could blow up.

[00:38:56] You're trying to hold your cards close to your vest. So Yeah. I think you have basically covered too. I think the one thing I'd add on the front end is qualification to your client. Make sure that you're running with a good client in the start, And their timing is what you're expecting it to.

[00:39:11] That their timing is, hey. I'm looking, but I really don't need anything for three years. You know, you're gonna be spinning your wheels and looking and seeing them at properties, But maybe the timing's not right. Um, if you do get in our contract, same as just communication with them, and there are some clients And have that conversation with them. They want them to run you wanna run point on every single thing.

[00:39:29] Right? Go through due due diligence checklist. Do you want us to run point and we can Literally do everything, or do you want us hands off, and are you gonna do it? And then constantly checking up. Um, and then same thing as Trevor was saying is communicating with, uh, everybody involved in a deal.

[00:39:44] Um, I've done a deal every or a process of, you know, ever at this table. And it just the communication of brokered back and forth throughout the process. Hey. What's going on with this? How are you here?

[00:39:53] Everything look anything that you can share that's obviously confidential, but as far as deal related, the communication between brokers on both sides of it definitely as well. Mhmm. Yeah. The point of almost encouraging the deal to fail is so hard. You're just You're praying.

[00:40:10] You're aging and praying that you're Lindsay. Don't fail. Don't fail. Yeah. That's a that's a solid point that I think it's it's such a guess your nature.

[00:40:19] Um, Yeah. Finishing on, hopefully, a funny, interesting note. Um, what's a personal story that you guys can think of Or remember about perseverance through those first three years. Perseverance. I think, uh, I think it goes back to, like, Trent like, What Trent said of, like, have a kid in the first couple years of being in this business, you don't really have a choice.

[00:40:44] Like, I had three Three kids by the fourth year I was in the business. So it was like, there's no there was no choice. There is no going to find something else, and And and it's just sticking in that meat grinder. Um, and then I guess, like, a story, like, in the first the first deal I ever did was a Burnt out gas station on Bridge Street with Jeremy Beanstraw, and I didn't know it was gas station, obviously. Uh, but it was it was, like, fifty it was, like, fifty grand, and then, like, we're going through, like, phase one, phase two b.

[00:41:17] I don't even know what the words mean at this point. And, uh, but we the guy stuck through the deal. And, uh, Donnie renovated the place. He ended up outgrowing it and flipping it. And we've done, uh, we did two transactions since then.

[00:41:32] He's in a thirty thousand square foot building now and looking to go into other markets. And so it's like, you just never know. And it's just staying and hanging in that meat grinder as long as you can. Yeah. I agree, um, with Max there.

[00:41:46] A lot of it's just the perseverance. Don't stop cold calling. Don't stop networking. Um, talking about perseverance, I got a four month old at home, so I guess I'm persevering right now for someone. So That's been fun.

[00:41:56] And just, uh, have fun with it too. I mean, this is it's industry. We put a lot of stress, lot of anxiety on it, but it really is A fun career path to be a part of. We get to experience it with some incredible people and just be able to have a laugh every once in a while too. I think Some brokers, there's a couple in our market who take their job a little too seriously and just need need to loosen up a little bit.

[00:42:16] But for the majority of us, we like to have fun, so that's good. Yeah. I mean, I there's there's a I remember being young and knocking on doors and pulling up to big building, driving the parking lot, and being like, yeah. I don't dare walk in here. No one can't get reversed.

[00:42:34] I'm just Backed it up. Many times. And and you drive around the building again, look at it. You're like, yeah. They're probably not gonna sell anyways.

[00:42:41] And then, eventually, you get the courage. You go up there. I had one, actually. This is this is funny. So I I ruptured my Achilles in two thousand fourteen.

[00:42:50] Um, then I had this knee cart I was on because I It was in a cast. Sell things for sure. So I so I was like, this is the ultimate, you know, way to get into doors and start knocking on doors. So, Uh, I I go to this hey. My this crappy little Ford Ranger I drove, and I keep my knee car at the back of the truck, get out, Scoot in there, asked for the person I needed to get.

[00:43:12] And, uh, one building I go in, the receptionist is like, yeah. He's not here. And I was like, well, You know, I I just got some stuff, and he comes walking out, grabs the handle of my cart, which this was one bad thing of going with a knee cart, And he wheeled me out the door, and I just stood there, ride the log, but that that was one I should've just, After I drove around a couple times, I should've laughed. You are. Well, you you go I don't know.

[00:43:40] Like, I I miss I miss being able to have the time to go out and do that stuff too because it's Mhmm. It's fun. But Yeah. It's hard to follow the funny story. I like that out a whole lot.

[00:43:49] But, no, it it's a lot of persevering door knocking. It's, Yeah. Rejected. I have driven in and out of parking lots and saying the same. Like, no.

[00:43:56] Thank you. Um, but I'd say the other thing of note to learn too is I've learned also more from clients, I think, than other brokers too as as they're in deals. As you start hardware with developers or experienced investors knowing what expectations are, and you start to learn from them. And, um, it makes you a whole lot better, the broker too, knowing what the whole process looks like and everything that they need to make a decision. Um, I think you've learned a lot just from clients.

[00:44:21] So Perfect. Well, yeah. Thank you guys very much. I don't know if we have time for any q and a. Yes.

[00:44:26] No. Um, we've got, like, two minutes. Does somebody have a question? Oh, good to be a little hard I don't even can you can people even hear us? It's a good question.

[00:44:58] Is Max specialized? I'm here, like, trying to handle this order. Here he is. Go ahead. Uh, Uh, Yeah.

[00:45:04] We we did at CalHiers. We got, um, so I started out, like I said, research role, then went to admin for the retail team because I'm the the retail team. I think I was the youngest guy by about twenty years or so. So I just went by. We just sorry, Mark.

[00:45:17] I shouldn't have called you out like that. Um, Yeah. So we we specialize right away. I was a very unpolished redneck from Hudsonville that everyone was like, he's definitely not going into an office building. There's no way we'll have to talk to a corporate retail client, so you can sell industrial.

[00:45:37] But, yes, specialize. We are encouraged to specialize, but I would say, uh, early on in the process, whenever a door opens, Becomes your specialty. Uh, and so you start to learn a little more and figure out where you wanna go. But when those doors open, you walk through early on. Again, for from my standpoint, I mean, I wouldn't say I'm super specialized in anything.

[00:46:02] I try and do try to do, Um, some industrial basically end up being, like, a buyer's agent for Advantage, um, and. Um, but I I just looking for opportunity always. There's a ton of opportunity in our market in in different spots and just trying to To find that opportunity. And if you find that, that's the hard part is finding the deal, um, for someone. That's the hardest part.

[00:46:27] And once you do that, then The rest is easy. Fantastic. Any others? Question. Last one.

[00:46:40] Alright. I gotta ask just one thing. So we talked about how we've got some awesome younger guys. So Thank you so much for this awesome