SO THAT Missions Podcast | FBC Boerne

Episode 57: Steve Hawthorne Are You Listening? Discover How God Responds, Not Just Answers

• FBC Boerne Missions • Season 5 • Episode 57

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Explore the depths of prayer with us in this enlightening episode, where we unpack the long-held belief that “God answers prayers.” Instead, we focus on the idea that God responds to the intentions and hearts behind our prayers. Our special guest, Steve Hawthorne, brings a wealth of experience in ministry, leading us through a thought-provoking dialogue on prayer's true purpose. 

Learn how prayer serves as an invitation to a deeper relationship with God, rather than a transactional exchange. We discuss the courtroom analogy, where prayers act as testimonies presented to the God who actively engages with our requests. Our conversation highlights the importance of understanding prayer within the context of our relationship with the divine, moving away from seeing it as a magic formula.

Throughout the episode, we address common misconceptions about prayer and emphasize the significance of trusting in God’s timing and purposes. How do you view prayer? Join us as we encourage listeners to see prayer as a journey towards intimacy with the God who hears and responds.

Let’s deepen our prayer lives together—subscribe, share your insights, and leave us a review!

Visit Steve's website here:  www.waymakers.org 

Also here is the link to the article Steve referenced towards the end of the podcast: Be Assured that You Are Heard by Steve Hawthorne



Chad :

Hey everybody, thank you for tuning in to today's podcast. I'm going to be with Steve Hawthorne and we're going to talk about something that you may not expect. We're going to talk about prayer and how God uses it to impact people's hearts for the nations. Welcome to FBC Missions. So that Podcast. This is an encouraging place to hear how God is working in and around us. We know that he blesses His people so that they can bless the world around them. Join us as we discuss how to join God in all that he is doing. Why is God working in our life, church and community? It's so that, through us, the world will know that he is me.

Chad :

Hey everybody, this is Pastor Chad. I'm so glad to be with you today on the podcast. I'm here with my friend, steve Hawthorne. He's been on the podcast before. How are you, steve? I'm doing well. Thank you, so great to have you with us again in the studio, as last time you've been in town for Perspectives. We've had a couple classes last night, this morning and another one in a little bit, and we're so thankful that you're able to make the trip down here to Bernie. And so, man, it's again so wonderful to get to hear how the Lord has really I don't know shown you his heart in some ways and the way that you've had this impact through the Perspectives course and many, many other environments throughout your ministry and your career. And so today I just want to ask how's everything?

Steve:

going? How are you, sir? It's going well. I'm pressing on. We're about to finish a revision of the entire Perspectives course, and that's being eagerly awaited.

Chad :

You may not remember this, but about 12 years ago I asked you would there ever be another edition? You said not while I'm alive. I think we were in Tulsa, oklahoma, back then and I was laughing. Edition 5, right around the corner.

Steve:

Well, it's the fifth edition. It will be coming out published in the. There'll be copies up here in december of 225 yeah we have the reader just about done, but the whole curriculum includes uh, study guidance, yeah, of course, of course.

Chad :

Uh, for those who are have been internal to the class, there's lesson reviews. There's all these internal components that work together to pull the class together. So just doing the reader is one thing. Adjusting the study guide, that's another thing. But beyond that, there's all these internal components that work together to pull the class together. So just doing the reader is one thing. Adjusting the study guide, that's another thing. But beyond that there's a whole bunch of peripheral tools that go alongside the class that also need to be adjusted. So that's a huge work. I know that you've had a great team working on that and Pam Arland has had a part of that, a big part of it, so we're excited she's going to come and do our lesson.

Steve:

I think it's lesson nine later in the year, so we're excited to have her. Yeah, she has been an excellent colleague of mine and she's going to become the lead editor, and Ralph Winters passed away, as you know, and so my name and Ralph Winters and Pam Arlen is going to be on the cover. On the new one and we do alphabetical order, which you don't have to do.

Chad :

Pam will come, first. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. Well, we've had so many good conversations over the years, and today we've had good ones too, over lunch and, of course, in the class this morning. But today you were talking about this article that you've been writing and this idea, so why don't you introduce it and let's talk a little bit about what's on your heart.

Steve:

So back in 2007, the people at Pray Magazine were asking me to write something. I was on the board and so I said, yeah, I can write something. Here's one thing I'm concerned about and I had noticed and I wrote an article that I titled actually it was put in. Actually it was put in. It was first published in a collection of prayer articles by Dan Crawford, edited by him. He's a Baptist guy. Dan Crawford is a name known in the Baptist world.

Steve:

And so he asked me to write about god's responses to prayer and I said, and uh, and that's a. I thought, okay, because the unanswered prayers yeah, that's the problem.

Chad :

I can't get god to answer my prayer, right right, and this is always a problem, right, everyone's like. I think there's been even massive studies at times to try to quantify how much prayer do you need to get the results that you want?

Steve:

Yeah, right. So I started the article with an insight that I think is pretty good. It may surprise you, but the Bible never says that God answers prayer.

Chad :

Steve, like you're dropping a mic, it's a boom, it's a bomb. What in the world?

Steve:

It never says In all the books of the Bible in the original languages and I can read Greek and Hebrew, but you'll never find a single time that specifically says that God answers prayer. What you will find are hundreds of times that God responds to the people who pray, and it's like hair splitting.

Chad :

Sure, I can't. What's the difference so?

Steve:

I'm excited to see what this does. Yeah, I know it is. It's a huge difference. But if we take a closer look, which I'd like to do with you guys, let's talk about God answering prayers and instead of answering prayers, god answers people. That's huge, because there's not anyway. So you hear of how the Hebrew word anah, which means answer, is used to describe God answering people who pray. You can find it all over the Psalms. Elijah, you know, when he called down fire from heaven. Here's the prayer Answer me, o Lord, answer me that this people may know that you are god, and so, and uh, fire comes down from heaven. That's pretty powerful prayer yeah yeah, but.

Steve:

But I wonder if we just say powerful prayer because the alliteration makes it fun to say so. So you remember that movie, bruce Almighty Of course my kids love it yeah and so at one point he's given supernatural power to be like God, and he's going to answer prayers.

Steve:

So he types really fast on a computer and we're made to think that he's answering millions of prayers per second and saying yes, no, no, no, get out of here. Here's five and something like that. It's crazy, but why is that significant? It's funny, it's silly, but that's not how God operates. But that's what we pretend and we think God must be hearing my prayer. He's not hearing me. You know God processes requests like emails or text messages.

Chad :

To log in and get caught up and try to get out the weekend, all those ones that came out while he was not watching.

Steve:

In that model, see, prayer is reduced to a procedure. That is a way to get results.

Chad :

Right a transaction like I ask and he gives. And if you say the right thing dad, I need $10 to put some gas in the car. Okay, here you go.

Steve:

Here's 10 bucks.

Chad :

You didn't clean your room. You're not getting it today.

Steve:

How many times have we had a little, but we we didn't say, in Jesus name, amen, oh, we better say it.

Chad :

It's like you hung up the phone or you didn't hang up on time or you left it off the hook.

Steve:

That prayer's not going to work, and so there was one spiritual leader I don't want to name his name because it would be embarrassing, because he's well-known but he says we now have it's a conference. Major thing we now have the spiritual technology to deal with almost any problem. He was one of the big spiritual warfare kind of guys. He got into it late, but spiritual technology.

Chad :

No no.

Steve:

That's not a technique. If I say this and offer this and do that little operation, then I will get what I want, and so you can't blame us. That's how we've taught prayer. Prayer is usually a procurement process or a problem-solving method something like that. That works, but only part of the time, and so we thought we could motivate people by convincing that prayer works.

Chad :

We prayed.

Steve:

Listen to the stories and we tell the glory stories. This lady prayed and him bam, the exact much you know. She prayed, she, her rent was 237 and she and she got a check for 237. What a miracle prayer works.

Chad :

You know what you're describing, steve. I I do hear this often kind of in the in the circles of how prayer is supposed to work, especially from what I would consider is like somebody who's I don't need to describe too many people, but the kind of a nominal american christian, you know someone who's been in church, but they're not really closely engaged and on but like hey, I come to church, I give on occasion, I pray when I need something.

Chad :

You know, like this is how I interact with God and it is very transactional. I do this and I expect a result, or at least I hope for a result. I may or may not get it. My faith doesn't promise me anything. You know what I mean. So, what you're describing is very common.

Steve:

Yeah, is very common, yeah, so we've somehow thought that if we could motivate people to pray by convincing them that prayer works. But by that same logic, if it doesn't work, then we should stop praying.

Chad :

You're not wrong.

Steve:

And for the most part we have. So what is it? And Jesus had a way of describing that In the Gospel of Luke, Luke 18, check that out, the first eight verses. Amazing thing Jesus knew we would look for a way to make prayer work. He knew that after long days or weeks and months, we would not get to ask for a result and that dismay could harden into stony disappointment. Why didn't God answer me? And what have I got to do to convince him? And Jesus told a story. He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not lose heart. Lose heart, yeah, we lose heart. We give up. I can't make it work.

Chad :

And.

Steve:

Luke calls it a parable, but I say it's a complete paradigm, a vision of what prayer is and what prayer isn't, and so the way he says it is. There's a woman and she goes to a judge. Now the judge, why are we going to court? I thought we were talking about prayer. Prayer is a courtroom procedure anyway. So, day after day, time after time, this lady goes and she makes the same appeal over and over and over.

Steve:

She's not going to answer, doesn't get a response, but she refuses to give up. She keeps coming and finally the judge gives her what she wanted. The woman was always heard by the judge, but the repeated pleas they don't really add any new information. She wasn't saying it different, the magic way, the powerful way or something like that. Nothing changes day after day.

Steve:

Jesus' point was to compare the unreliability of the unrighteous judge. The problem was not was the judge? He was not righteous. Jesus called her unrighteous and so he didn't hear her and so he was trying to say keep going and keep praying. Why? Because sometimes I pray and I'm not praying to a judge or something like that but God doesn't. The prayer doesn't work, it doesn't come back right away. So this shows us. With this parable, jesus rightly selects a courtroom for us to understand what prayer is all about. And because every time we see heaven we see God's throne room, which means it's a courtroom. And most Americans we don't get kingships, we just think lady die, she's a princess and that was amazing and they're king something. But a throne room is where court is, decisions were made.

Steve:

Yeah, and people adjust or not.

Chad :

The closest thing we have in our culture is a judge's courtroom right. That makes sense. He sits on his bench and makes decisions Right, right.

Steve:

So we come to it. So I think there's two different paradigms of prayer in the Bible. One I call enforcement, the other I call entreaty. Entreaty is a word to say I'm asking Sure, and enforcement is I'm using power to coerce. And there are some expressions that say that, but never once does it say God answers prayer. But so we like to think of prayer as a device, as a method, methodology to make things happen.

Steve:

And yet we find throughout the Bible hundreds of times that people pray and god hears them and uh, and in treaty and uh, those who pray are seen as approaching god's throne in the courtroom of heaven. You don't have to get mystic about it and be supernatural seeing or something like that, but God can hear us from anywhere on the planet and he does so. He hears prayer and he answers people, but he hears prayer. He may not answer it, but just like a court and a judge hears the testimony, hears this what do you say? What's your testimony, what's yours? And he hears all the testimony and he makes a decision about what's going to happen. That's just like our God he hears.

Chad :

He hears.

Steve:

Yeah, but well, how come I? I needed the rent money and didn't come back? I didn't, I didn't have enough or something. I didn't answer my prayer because I asked them for this and didn't. No, you'll never find a place where, if you say this in the right kind of way and say, in Jesus' name, amen, it's going to work, it'll come through. But people love to tell stories about prayer, but we can be sure that God has heard every word and so that's a marvelous thing. He may respond slowly, but we must see that our lives are part of a tapestry of things that goes back centuries. Many generations before we were alive, god was beginning to hear prayers and move in certain ways, and he's got a great global purpose.

Steve:

And the little times in which we live. The number of our days is short, but he hears our prayers and, in light of the large thing he's bringing about, yeah, there's so much in different conversations that we've had, steve, that are coming to my mind as you're talking, you know.

Chad :

one is this idea that our relationship with the Father is not transactional. It's not the better I am as your child, the more pleased you're going to be with me and therefore give me. So the more time I pray, the more time I fast, as if my prayers and fasting were the works that he requires in order to bless me. It's really not that we treat it like that. Often, someone might say, well, if you don't pray, you shouldn't expect God to do it. I'm not saying you shouldn't. The way that we should approach prayer is like we're approaching our Father, like we're approaching a relationship with someone that we care about and we love, and how much more so does he want to have that same relationship with us. And so when you think about verses like um, god gives according to his will, you know, and and and never outside of his will.

Chad :

he's never going to do anything that's outside of his will right so he's bound by his own nature to do the things that he's pursuing his purpose. You use the words, and so, whenever our prayers are in and encounter will, there's no, it will not.

Steve:

He'll hear it.

Chad :

He'll hear it.

Steve:

Yeah, but it's just like any father. Here's this kid says oh, oh, I want to be, I want a triple ice cream please. Oh, I really want that, give me, give me. And it says well, after supper we might get one scoop, right, but you hear a response, so it's not. Yeah, we ask absurd things we don't know They'll be dangerous and damaging.

Chad :

Well, I think about the commands that Jesus talks about, when we always I mean, if you command this mountain right be removed and thrown into the sea, and you speak it with faith, that could happen. You get those kinds of but that that's the kind of way we apply that to prayer, like if you just command it, it will happen, but that's again, always according to the will of God and always according to his purpose. Yeah, and and and. Then also you said the not grow, not to lose heart. You know we were talking about this genesis, hebrews 12, a little while ago, that you know consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you don't grow weary and lose heart. And it's talking about christ, who suffered more than any of anyone I know and yet pursued in faith the ends that god commanded him with passion, with heart, with, with confidence, with faith, and. And so how much that goes alongside with this conversation.

Steve:

Well, let's say, let's come boldly to the throne of grace, right and throne of grace, well, god thinks he's some sort of mighty man.

Steve:

I know that throne is like oh, you're safe because there's a good father and his throne room is the place you want to come and the courtroom model doesn't. And let me just read from this the courtroom model doesn't promise that any prayer instantly sways the mind of God's counsel. Many appeals are not upheld. You can appeal it and go hmm, got a better thing to do. There's an even better thing could happen in the long run.

Steve:

Some motions are not sustained, but we can count on God to wisely weigh the lives and words of those who pray in light of his purpose as it unfolds in all the earth. His people are his preferred witnesses. He loves to be calling the earth. His people are his preferred witnesses. He loves to be calling the witness. What do you have to say about this? I think we should help him. It's like yeah, You've done it before. Good point, that's a good argument.

Steve:

Our prayers may seem silly to unliked angels, but even the simplest prayer is significant because he helps us. The king we approach is our father At our side, is heaven's favorite son and champion. He sends his spirit to search out the depths of who we are, aligning our muddled desires with the surpassing majesty of his heart. Because of his mercy, most of the important cases are taking many generations to unfold. He knows his timing. You can be assured every word you have ever prayed with any kind of sincerity has been heard in heaven. He's never forgotten. He doesn't forget. Not a single syllable has ever been forgotten. Prayer doesn't work, but God is at work. So let's pray and approach God's throne. We have standing at that court and we can pray on behalf of others, pray for ourselves, but let's appeal to him and rest and trust and not lose heart.

Chad :

It's so good, steve. Again, the thoughts I don't want to steal from your class I think you shared this story on our podcast last time that you have daughters and you love them and each of them are your favorite in their own way. And how much more so when the Father says come to me all who are heavy laden and burdened, and I'll give you rest. He wants to have that closeness to us. So I think, when I hear this whole presentation, what I think is that so many times we approach prayer like it's magic. If I say the right things, I'll get a certain response. If I have the right words to say, in the right order and the right. You know, I've been to church, I've given my tithe, I've done this. Now God owes me, so I'm going to just call in this favor. You've heard people talk about the credit card. I'm just going to slide it, and when my debit card is empty, I need to free-fill it in some way and you've got to do some great act that impresses the Lord. That really is a pagan form of worship, it's an idolatrous form, using your words from today. And so this idea that he's a father who's near, who's close, who's always listening, foolish requests, your sincere heart, your requests. He hears them. He hears them, and I love what you just said.

Chad :

Oftentimes you might pick up a book at the Christian bookstore that says prayer works. It's like, well, actually prayer is a petition, but God works, prayer does it. Prayer is not magic, it's God at work. Actually, prayer is a petition, but God works, prayer doesn't. Prayer is not magic. It's God at work and it's his people petitioning him. You know, asking him. Beseeching is a word that I've heard Justin Long use. Right, and this idea that they're just saying God, we need you, we need you, and he's saying I'm here, I'm nearby and I may or may not be able to grant your request.

Chad :

Another thing that's so common in our world today is this idea that if you have faith, god will do what you want him to do. And yet there's so many examples of people who struggle, struggle hard. I mean people in the world who are dying, literally dying, who love the Lord with all their heart and things are not being given to them, maybe being taken from them, and they're asking the Lord where are you? Why aren't you taking care of us? Why do we lose our homes, our jobs or whatever, and we have no answer for that, aside from God saying I'm enough, I'm here, I'm suffering with you. I've walked this line Again. Consider him who bore such opposition that you don't grow weary and lose heart. And so this is a great word, steve. I love it. Prayer doesn't work. God works.

Steve:

God doesn't work. Prayer is this way of inviting us to work with him. And at the last we're not going to say look at all the amazing answers to prayer we were able to make happen. We're not going to say anything like that. We're going to say, oh, he's fulfilled everything he's promised. He came through. What a worthy, trustworthy God. He heard us. It was three centuries after the great-great-grandmother prayed. We never would have known it, but it took us three aeons into heaven to find out. Oh, she's the one who prayed. God listened, honors that woman. So let's keep praying. You can't. And you heard. We are heard, so we can be assured of that. He's listening carefully. So don't not pray, because it doesn't work for me.

Steve:

I can't make it work. Don't go find the prayer lady at church because she gets through. That's another kind of strange, bizarre thing. You know, Jesus taught us to pray our Father. She gets through. That's another kind of strange, bizarre thing. Jesus taught us to pray our Father. That means everybody gets in, not just the high priest and all that. So let's rejoice that God hears our prayers. Jonah was heard from the belly of a fish While he was fleeing from the belly of a fish while he was fleeing from God.

Chad :

He's in a positionally almost anti-God location and yet God is listening to him and hearing his prayer and even redeeming him in the process. What an incredible thing. Steve has always so fun to get to hear from your heart what God's doing this article.

Steve:

If you'd like to read the article, it's available free download on my website.

Chad :

If you don't mind, I'll actually put it in the show notes. They can click on it and download it from the.

Steve:

Waymakersorg. There's other articles too, but good.

Chad :

We'll put a link to waymakersorg on there as well, Steve. Thank you so much.

Steve:

Thank you.

Chad :

Thank you for your ministry and, most of all, thank you for just bearing your heart. Every time I see you, you're trying to show, I'd say, the passion that you've borrowed from the Lord. It's the.

Steve:

Father's heart.

Chad :

Well, thank you, sir. Hey, for those of you listening, I hope this has been encouraging to you. We'd love to talk to you some more. If you have any questions or thoughts, or even if you disagree and you want to tell me about it, I'd love to hear about that. So please feel free to give us some response. Have a wonderful day and God bless. We are so thankful that you joined our podcast today. We would love to hear any feedback you may have for us. Remember, psalm 67 says may God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face shine on us, so that your ways may be known on earth and your salvation among all nations. Don't forget why the Lord blesses us it's so that we can be a blessing to those around us. Until next time, god bless.