Benchmark Happenings
Brought to you by, Jonathan Tipton & Steve Reed of Benchmark Home Loans, Benchmark Happenings is a podcast that is a biweekly discussion about living in and moving to Northeast Tennessee along with the local real estate market. Join your host Christine Reed as she interviews Jonathan & Steve, local business owners, sought-after industry experts, Veterans, Realtors, Benchmark clients, and more.
Benchmark Happenings focuses on discussing all things related to mortgages and Northeast Tennessee. Placing the spotlight on all the reasons you would want to live in and move to Northeast Tennessee, Benchmark Happenings highlights upcoming events, local businesses, things to do, and other aspects related to Northeast Tennessee. We will also be answering mortgage questions from buyers, sellers, and real estate agents as well as discussing everything going on in our local real estate market.
To help you to navigate the home buying and mortgage process, Jonathan & Steve are currently licensed in Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Virginia, contact us today at 423-491-5405 or visit www.tiptonreedteam.com.
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Jonathan Tipton
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Steve Reed
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steve.reed@benchmark.us
Benchmark Happenings
Supporting Children's Emotional Well-being: Insights from Counselor Cindy Ketron on Mental Health Challenges and Counseling Strategies
What if your child’s emotional challenges could be better managed with the right tools and support? Join us in this eye-opening episode where we speak with Cindy Ketron, a licensed counselor with 36 years of experience, to uncover the pressing issues surrounding children's mental health today. Cindy's extensive background in clinical social work, family mediation, theological seminary, and chaplaincy lends a wealth of insight as we explore the primary reasons children seek counseling, from ADHD to the overwhelming rise in depression and anxiety exacerbated by COVID-19.
Cindy takes us on a poignant journey through her career, sharing personal stories and professional insights that highlight the complex emotional struggles children face, especially during parental divorce. She provides invaluable advice on how parents can support their children through the turmoil, stressing the importance of allowing kids to love both parents without guilt. Through a heartfelt story about a boy navigating the emotional fallout of his parents' divorce, Cindy emphasizes the need for timely intervention and understanding behavioral signs like regression.
We conclude with a compelling discussion on the importance of counseling, not just as a remedy but as a means to equip children with the tools to express their emotions healthily. Cindy shares strategies to help children articulate their feelings, shedding light on how untreated emotions can lead to anger or depression. We also touch on societal issues, such as the high consumption of psychotropic drugs in America, and the crucial role parents play in actively pursuing their children's emotional well-being. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to understand and support the mental health of children in today's challenging environment.
To help you to navigate the home buying and mortgage process, Jonathan & Steve are currently licensed in Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Virginia, contact us today at 423-491-5405 or visit www.jonathanandsteve.com.
happenings Brought to you by Jonathan and Steve from Benchmark Home Loans Northeast Tennessee, johnson City, kingsport, bristol, the Tri-Cities one of the most beautiful places in the country to live, tons of great things to do and awesome local businesses. And on this show you'll find out why people are dying to move to Northeast Tennessee and on the way, we'll have discussions about mortgages and we'll interview people in the real estate industry. It's what we do. This is Benchmark Happenings Brought to you by Benchmark Home Loans and now your host, christine Reed.
Speaker 2:Well, welcome back everybody to another episode of Benchmark Happenings. In this episode today we are kind of going down the path of we've been talking about health issues, but we felt like there was just a really big need in our community here in Northeast Tennessee to talk about mental health. We know since COVID and so many things has happened, especially our children, and so the star of our show today is Cindy Ketron, who is a licensed counselor and she also has her own practice. She has focused on children's mental health for many years and also she happens to be my sister-in-law, so she is extremely special to me, though this is Steve's sister, cindy. So, cindy, welcome for being on. Thank you for being on the show today.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so, cindy. I know we've got a lot to talk about. When you and I had an interview before this podcast, there were so many things that came up, but in your wisdom you said you know what. We need to narrow this down and really focus on children and mental health. And so let's kind of dive in a little bit and let's do a broad overview that what are some of the primary reasons that children are coming to counseling?
Speaker 3:Well, for me, I get a lot of children who are coming in with neurobehavioral issues, adhd, those kinds of things. Children who are coming in who have family problems, who have school problems perhaps they're being bullied at school and then you know you've got your run-of-the-mill issues that all families deal with, where children have depression and anxiety and we're seeing so much more of that aren't we, Since COVID?
Speaker 3:COVID did something to this generation of children. I think it just kind of spread a blanket of depression and anxiety across the whole world. But the anxiety that I'm seeing now in my practice is off the charts compared to what it was pre-COVID.
Speaker 2:You know and I'm hearing that because just being a part of nursing the nursing profession myself, you know I hear of a lot of the hospitals, chief nursing officers and leadership saying we do not have places for these children that come in with mental health issues. So, cindy, how long have you been practicing as a licensed counselor? So let's just kind of set the playing field. Let's talk about your credentials, because you're not just some counselor off the streets. How long have you been doing this?
Speaker 3:I don't want to really say, because then you'll know how old I am, but this is my 36th year in practice 36 years, 36 years. This is my 36th year in practice 36 years, 36 years. And I have a master's degree in social work. I have a license in clinical social work, I'm a certified Rule 31 family mediator through the Tennessee Supreme Court system and I have a master's degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and I'm an ordained chaplain.
Speaker 2:Wow, so really a list as long as my forearm. Everybody. She's qualified. So that's why I really wanted you to share that, sandy, and I know that's not something that you hang a plaque outside your door, but I wanted people to know that, cindy, and I know that's not something that you hang a plaque outside your door, but I wanted people to know that your sister-in-law is bona fide. She is bona fide, so thank you for that. What made you want to go into this profession, cindy?
Speaker 3:I don't think I really wanted to go into it. My grandmother on my mother's side was bipolar and schizophrenic and so throughout my childhood this woman was very near and dear to me. As you know, you knew Mama Wheelock Love that woman, but Mama Wheelock had what we call in the South spells. You know she'd have spells and all I knew was that I did not want to help anybody with a spell. When I got into college I wanted to do writing and start grassroots organizations for the poor and other underprivileged groups. My husband was also in college when I graduated and.
Speaker 3:I had two job offers One would allow us to actually eat and one wouldn't.
Speaker 2:Those are important.
Speaker 3:The one that would allow us to eat was a counseling job with emotionally disturbed, learning disabled adolescents in a level three lockdown facility in Virginia. Oh my goodness, it was truly trial by fire. But looking back I know that God kind of had that all planned out. I look back to my seminary time and there were girls on my hall who would come and they would bring their friends If they had problems. They'd knock on my door and they'd say this girl will talk to you if you have a problem. And so I look back and I say you know it might not have been my choice, but it was God's choice and I ran with it and it was the right choice.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. And I've just over the years of being married to Steve, your brother, 23 years now, so just having the privilege to know, and you and I met actually before you reintroduced, steve and I, so we all went to high school together years ago.
Speaker 3:I'm still waiting on my finder's fee for that marriage. I'm telling you it was the best thing.
Speaker 2:I would do it a million times over. And I have to thank Cindy for finding my husband. She actually did. We were in a Bible study together and she says I'm going to reintroduce you to my brother Steve and I was like, oh, I don't know about that, but anyway, I prayed about it and, just like you know, God is sovereign, he has plans and you know what. I went with it and praise God. I'm so thankful that I did. He is a fantastic husband. It's been 23 amazing years and so so, let's, we have digressed just a little bit. I know you and I could just talk and talk and talk about so many things, Cindy, but really let's kind of go back to the pediatric mental health. And so now that we've sort of kind of talked about why you're doing this, you're credentialing what's the number one issue that kids whose parents are going through divorce deal with, and how does divorce deal affect our children? We see so much divorce now.
Speaker 3:It's just it increases every year divorce now, it's just it increases every year. So, first of all, divorce is probably the number one reason that parents bring their children to me.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:There's, there's something that's gone on or kids are not adjusting well, but by far the biggest issue in divorce is betrayal. You know the child will go to mom's house and they want to be able to love mom, but they feel guilty if they say they love dad while they're at mom's house, then they go to dad's house and they feel guilty the other way, and children need to be free to love each parent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they need to know that there's room in the heart to love both parents and not feel guilty about that.
Speaker 3:Oh, I remember one little boy who's you know. And when you go through divorce you have to go through these classes. And they tell you in these classes don't bad talk the other parent. But I remember one little boy who told me once that his dad's side of the family was brutal toward his mother. And for the little boy to feel accepted, when he went over there he joined in with them talking bad about his mother, and then when he would come back to his mother's he would have all this shame and all this guilt and it was just horrible. And so what I say to parents is do you love your child more than you despise this other person, because your actions will tell the tale.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and I hear so many times parents who divorce and they say, oh, the children are doing great, the children are just great, oh, they're going to be fine, but they're not. They're really not.
Speaker 3:Well, here's the thing, but they're not. They're really not. Well, here's the thing. Divorce affects the people who are getting the divorce differently than it affects the children. Because if you're getting a divorce, there's a chance that you can find love again out there and that you can get remarried and be happy again. But for the child, this is the death of a family. They don't get to get remarried. Their mom and their dad, forever, are separated. So it's different for the child and it's never good.
Speaker 2:No, that's why God says he hates divorce. But sometimes it happens and sometimes it has to happen under circumstances that you know abuse, drug use, trauma. So let's talk about some of the signs. So people who are listening to this podcast today that have children, and whether they're divorced or not, but signs they should look for if they think their child should come to counseling- Well, one thing you're going to look for is regression in any area.
Speaker 3:For example, if I have a five-year-old who's obviously potty trained, if that child starts waiting on himself or herself again, or if you've got a two or three-year-old that you're training you're potty training and all of a sudden this traumatic thing happens in their life, it might be time to stop potty training just for a period of time until that child can reacclimate.
Speaker 3:So any regression is something that you look for. With grade school children, one of the biggest things I look for is a change in grades. Biggest things I look for is a change in grades, and that is because if you're coping well, like you and I, if we have something bad going on in our lives and we go to work and we're able to be successful in our work, that means that we're able to put whatever's going on in our head on a shelf for seven or eight hours to attend to our work. If children can't do that, they're not coping. So if they're starting to spiral down with their grades, that is a telltale sign that they need to get into counseling Sleeping issues sleeping too much, sleeping too little, eating too much, eating too little If they start displaying behaviors that are unlike behaviors that they've had before, then it's time to start looking for a counselor.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, those are great and I think those are seen, you know, really quite often and often overlooked.
Speaker 3:They are often overlooked and I think, with the parents that I've worked with in counseling, they feel guilty for getting a divorce. They feel guilty for putting this upon their children, and that guilt is often the thing that will keep them from seeking out a counselor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so hard to deal with.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:So is there a difference in how children express grief and sadness depending on their chronicological age? So I know you've counseled children of all different ages. So how does that grief through the stages of development happen? Can you kind of help explain that to the audience?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, I don't see children unless they have decent verbal skills. If they don't have decent verbal skills then I can work with the parent, but probably not the child. I can give the parents some hints. But the thing about children and interestingly I had a school counselor call me recently about a five-year-old and she said this little girl is so depressed and I said I seriously doubt that Because children that age do not display those kinds of symptoms on a continuous level.
Speaker 3:The younger children are, the shorter the time of grief that they will express. For example, there may be something horrible that happened in the life of a five-year-old and that five-year-old might be out playing with cousins and having a great time and then maybe every 30 minutes, maybe every hour or two, that little child will come and say I'm sad, but then they go back to playing. The older the child gets, the longer that child can hang with a grief kind of expression. You know, you and I, if we get depressed we can lay on our couch for three days and pull the blinds and eat bonbons, right? Little children can't do that.
Speaker 3:They grieve in little tiny spurts and that's why if you go to the internet you will not find any child under the age of five who has committed suicide, because children don't do that at that age. They have too much hope. It's not until later that you start seeing some differences. So that's one big thing is that as we age, we can hold on to grief longer. As I said, with little children you're going to be looking for any kind of regressive behaviors, and under the age of five you start looking for things like are they becoming very clingy to the parent or clingy to a major caregiver? Are they becoming whiny when they weren't whiny before?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Probably the worst, the absolute worst time that a parent could get divorced is if the kid is in middle school. That a parent could get divorced as a kid is in middle school Because those puberty years, so many things are changing. And when those children in those puberty years start going through that kind of trauma and it is trauma, it absolutely is trauma to them they become angry. Often they're into this peer pressure stuff. And what I tell parents in middle school is that there's an unspoken rule in middle school when kids go into middle school the food chain is established. It is not established in grade school, but in middle school everybody knows who's at the top of the food chain and who's at the bottom of the food chain. And if you have some kind of a major something like divorce, then that causes you to not feel comfortable with your peers and that causes some major issues during that time.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, there are times when it's worse, but now, once you get into like the 14 to 17 age range, these are kids who are probably dating. You get into that age and you have a divorce in the family and those kids start going. Well, is this going to happen to me, you know? Is this something? That I'm dating somebody. I think I'm in love. Am I really in love?
Speaker 2:Well, I fall out of love and so it's just a whole hodgepodge of things that kids deal with, depending on their chronological age. That is a lot I want to go back to. When you were talking about the school counselor called you and said this little girl is depressed. Is it often seen, misdiagnosed or overlooked grief and that's taken to be depression, indicated as depression for a child?
Speaker 3:Well, sometimes, sometimes, but sometimes the thing is that little children simply do not have the tools to say I'm sad. Mm, hmm.
Speaker 3:My heart is broken, and one of the first things that I do when I have little ones like that, I'll draw a series of little faces happy, sad. I'll see how many different feelings they can identify and then we start playing games. I felt like this face when certain things happen. I felt like this when certain things happen. I felt like this when certain things happen. If children have the verbal tools to express their heart, then they can often just get through it in a very healthy way.
Speaker 2:But so many times they don't. True People, I mean, I think a lot of times, even as they grow, and as we grow as adults, we learn to stuff down those emotions and those feelings, whatever trauma occurred in our life, and those are never dealt with. But yet they come out in different ways in our life.
Speaker 3:They come out as anger. You know they may come out as depression. One of the rules that I have when children come to see me is all of your feelings are okay. It doesn't matter if it's what we would consider a negative feeling, like hate. We can deal with that. You know, I remember my own son, gabe, who grew up with Tourette's syndrome, and he came in one day crying, sobbing in fact, and he told me that a little boy at school had been displaying his tics and he said, mom, that little boy doesn't have Tourette's. And so I said, well, okay, gabe. He said, well, can you pray for him? And which? I thought I'm a great parent, my kids are praying for their enemies.
Speaker 2:He just won the prize. Parent of the Year.
Speaker 3:I walked right into that and I said well, gabe, what do you want to pray for? What do you want mommy to pray for? And he said would you just pray that he'll go to hell, mom? That was some hate right there, right. So it was an opportunity to say no, we're not going to pray for somebody to go to hell, honey. But what we are going to do is we're going to be honest to God before God. We're going to be honest to God before God and we're going to tell him this little boy has hurt your feelings so bad that this is what you want to do, this is what you want to happen to him.
Speaker 3:And we're going to ask God to help you with your heart.
Speaker 2:Yes, and he did, and he did and he did. Yeah, that's a great example.
Speaker 3:It's got to be okay for kids to express their feelings. And you know, depending on your family of origin, some feelings are okay and some are not.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:You know, especially where little boys are concerned, where little boys are concerned, there are some families that will allow anger, but they will not allow sadness. That will allow anger, but they will not allow sadness. So, these little fellas, they grow up and they get the two mixed up and then it's a mess and you have to sort it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, wow. I think that's you know, and I think we were talking about not dealing with these things as we grow and not being able to develop the tools or ability to process these emotions, these feelings, and I think that's why the health care industry we see so much sickness in the health care industry, because a lot of it is just undealt with. A lot of times it's trauma related.
Speaker 3:Well, here's the thing America has 5% of the world's population. We consume 95% of the psychotropic drugs out there in the world.
Speaker 2:And it's the same with other medications besides psychotropic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm sure it is.
Speaker 2:I mean, that is startling, it is startling.
Speaker 3:It is startling, but a lot of it is because we haven't raised our children with the tools to express themselves. When they can express themselves, then the expression can leave them feeling like they've had some closure and then they can move on. When they have no way and no means of expression, then they're like a volcano they're going to blow one day and they do, and they do, and we're seeing it all around us. Yeah, we are.
Speaker 2:We're seeing it everywhere College campuses. I'm going to say that they don't even know why they're erupting. They don't know why they're there. They don't even know what they're chanting.
Speaker 3:Well, we're not teaching our children to think.
Speaker 2:No, we're not they're robots.
Speaker 3:Thinking is something that leads to wholeness. God made our bodies to heal, but he also made our minds to heal.
Speaker 2:Yes, and he does not create confusion. No, he does not he is a God of clarity and order and order, not confusion, and not chaos. So is it okay to think that my children know that I love them and they can seek me out if they have a problem, or should I be pursuing them to find out what's wrong?
Speaker 3:Well, because I incorporate scripture in with what I do, I'm looking to the Bible as my ultimate source and what I find in the Bible is that God pursues us Throughout the lifespan. God pursues us. If that is true of my relationship with God, then that absolutely should be true of our relationship with our children. Now, there will be a time in our lives when we're old and we may be bedridden and our children will have to pursue us. But as long as we can, we need to pursue them. One thing that I've heard over the years repeatedly is I've heard parents say and this is parents of divorce well, they know they can call me if they have a problem. I don't need to touch base with them constantly, and I'm always like no, yes, you do. You do need to touch base with them on a consistent basis, on a frequent basis. Children, their self-esteem grows based on how they are perceived and treated by the people who are closest to them. If they're not pursued, then their self-esteem is never good. Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's really good, and I know we're getting close to the end. So, just for the purpose of whoever's listening today and they think you know what maybe I think probably do need a counselor for my child. What should you look for in a counselor for your child? What are those telltale signs? Cindy, I know that there's a lot of things out there that do not help our children, but what would you suggest?
Speaker 3:Well, the first thing that I would say is you want somebody who is licensed. At least, if that person is licensed, then you know that they have some kind of theoretical groundwork that they've been exposed to that they can offer to you. I would ask other people, other parents have you ever taken your child to a counselor? If so, who and what did you think about this person? Most of the people that I get, I get by word of mouth, because I've been around for so long I've never advertised, so people know about me and if there's a good counselor out there, people will know about that counselor. But the other thing I would ask is how involved can the parent be in the counseling?
Speaker 3:Now, I'm a counselor who I like to talk to the children individually, but I like to keep the parent in at the end.
Speaker 3:So I'll do, out of a one hour session I'll do about 45 minutes with the child and in the last 15 minutes I'll bring the parent in and I'll say to the parent OK, here's what we worked on and here's what I would like for you to work on with this child when he or she goes home.
Speaker 3:There are so many counselors who either do this They'll have the child and the parent in together, which is a no-no, because if you want that child to tell you something, right, that child will be inhibited to tell you exactly how he or she feels. If that parent is sitting there, they're either doing that or a counselor is not including the parent at all. And my thought on that is God gave you this child. This child is yours and your responsibility and you have a right to know what is going on in the counseling session. I also want if I'm going to let somebody get inside my kid's head, I want somebody who's a Christian. I'm not going to take somebody to a Hindu or anything else. I want somebody who they don't necessarily have to be a Christian counselor in the aspect of Christian counseling, but I want somebody who is a believer in God and if that person goes against anything that, as a parent, that I believe in, then I'm going to turn around and run from that counselor, and I've done that before with my own son.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah. It's a hard journey and I think finding that right counselor is very difficult, and I know the stories that we've heard about all the things that are happening today that we thought we would never deal with years ago, and this transgender and counselors. You know, putting these ideas in these children's heads and not including the parents that are struggling Basically with adolescence is the struggle, and it's not the other, but that could be a podcast for another day, right, but I just think that's so hard and I think so just briefly. Let's wrap up what are the primary reasons that children come to counseling and what are those things that, as parents, we need to look for?
Speaker 3:Well, the primary reasons that children come to counseling are home issues and school issues. Those are the two primary reasons. What you're looking for as a parent. You're looking for any kind of regression, any change in behavior, any change in grades, change in eating and sleeping habits.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, thank you, cindy. So any parting words of wisdom that you want to share?
Speaker 3:Well, one thing that I tell parents a lot is that sowing and reaping is a biblical process. We reap what we sow. Don't interrupt that for your children. You know if you're a helicopter parent, and I think because the world is crazier than it was when you and I grew up- Right.
Speaker 3:I think there's a whole lot more helicopter parents out there than there were when we were children. But those parents that want to get in there and they want to interrupt the sowing and reaping process, when they interrupt that, then their children never learn the lesson that they need to learn. You know, I remember my daddy growing up telling me and Steve, if you two ever get out and get drunk and get arrested, do not call me, I will not pick you up. And we knew. We knew that he meant that he would leave our butts in jail. So don't interrupt that process for children.
Speaker 3:And the other thing I would say is that all children experience stress and that is not always a bad thing. That is an opportunity for parents to help children walk through and see just how they can heal and the possibilities out there of how they can heal. You know, one of the biggest things I say with divorce is that when divorce happens, children become very insecure and with that insecurity, parents feel guilty. They change the rules, they're a little bit more lax. If you're lax, that increases insecurity. And so, regardless of what the child is going through, be consistent with the rules. That is very important. And, like I said, remember that God made us to heal. He made their little minds to heal, and they need to have hope that things, you know, the turning point of any story is hope, right, yes, and they need to have hope that things can. You know, the turning point of any story is hope, right, yes, and they need to have hope that things can get better and will get better, even if they're in the midst of something really horrible. They need that hope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, cindy, how can people get in touch with you? Well, they can call me.
Speaker 3:I'm on Facebook too, cindy Ketron, and they can call me. You want me to give them my number, if you want to. That's up to you. My number is 423-863-3861. Okay.
Speaker 2:Cindy, thank you again. We really appreciate you being on today. Thank you for having me, absolutely All right.
Speaker 1:This has been Benchmark Happenings, brought to you by Jonathan Tipton and Steve Reed from Benchmark Home Loans. Jonathan and Steve are residential mortgage lenders. They do home loans in Northeast Tennessee and they're not only licensed in Tennessee but Florida, georgia, south Carolina and Virginia. We hope you've enjoyed the show. If you did make sure to like rate and review. Our passion is Northeast Tennessee, so if you have questions about mortgages, call us at 423-491-5405. And the website is wwwJonathanAndStevecom. Thanks for being with us and we'll see you next time on Benchmark Happenings.
