The Onsite & Offshore Talk with Suresh Ashok
Welcome to the Onsite & Offshore talk show. A dedicated Podcast for Professionals involved in Offshore projects, where we chat with, Business Owners, Project Managers, analysts and Software Developers who have successfully supported their overseas clients from India and connect with entrepreneurs who outsource the work to offshoring firms.
In each episode, Host Suresh Ashok brings out the most inspiring stories of his guests. He explores their journey and how they got to where they are now. He also delves into the strategies that have helped them reach their goals and the lessons that can be learned from their experiences.
Regards,
Suresh Ashok
https://onsiteandoffshore.com/
The Onsite & Offshore Talk with Suresh Ashok
The Journey to International Software Success with Thomas John
Unlock the keys to international software success with Thomas John, the visionary CEO of Rejola IT Services, as he recounts his groundbreaking journey from a local business to a global powerhouse.
This episode promises invaluable insights, including:
- Overcoming communication barriers and leveraging automation to keep clients updated across time zones.
- The fascinating story of how a chance LinkedIn post led to Thomas's first international sale.
- The initial hurdles he faced in captivating a global audience.
Transform your understanding of custom software development as Thomas shares a compelling case study of a heavy equipment manufacturer who transitioned from manual processes to a state-of-the-art ERP system.
Key takeaways include:
- How tailored software solutions can propel a business to unprecedented growth, exemplified by a client whose turnover skyrocketed from 10 crores to 110 crores in just five years.
- The power of precise customization and long-term strategic partnerships in driving business success.
Finally, delve into essential strategies for ensuring long-term client satisfaction and support in software projects. Thomas explains:
- The importance of offering a year of free support and managing annual maintenance contracts to build lasting client relationships.
- Future technological advancements, including the integration of low-code platforms and AI/ML technologies.
- An exclusive look into his daily routine as a CEO, balancing spiritual, mental, and physical well-being for sustained productivity.
This episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for anyone navigating the realm of international software sales and operations.
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Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in. Welcome to another episode of the Onsite and Offshore Podcast. I'm your host, suresh Ashok, founder of Munsee Infotech, with a passion for selling and supporting offshoring projects. We have a chat with business owners and professionals involved in offshoring initiatives, and also connect with entrepreneurs who outsource their work to India. Today, on the On-Site and Offshore podcast, we are joined by Thomas John, founder and CEO of Rejola IT Services. Since 2011, thomas has led his team in helping over 300 clients across 15 countries streamline their operations through innovative software solutions. With a passion for technology that started in his school days, thomas also focuses on business development, bringing new clients to Rejola and driving growth through automation. We are eager to hear his insight. Welcome to our podcast, thomas. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, hi, by God's grace I'm doing good. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great. Thanks for your time, thomas, really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. It's a privilege. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Well, thomas, let's dive straight to the topic. You're conducting this podcast season two, especially interacting with our guests who have experience in selling to international audience. So can you share the story of your first experience in selling, particularly when you first started selling to an international client or overseas audience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think the first experience that we had was in 2017, when one of my friends who studied engineering with me saw a post of mine on LinkedIn and about the software development that we were doing, and he got in touch with me.
Speaker 2:And then we had a series of discussions of what he wanted. He was looking for a crowdfunding platform and then, once I had gathered his entire requirement, I put a structure to the requirement, I sent it back to him and initially, because it was a big project, you know, put a structure to the requirement, I sent it back to him and initially, uh, you know, because it was a big project, it was not a, you know, a small one uh, that could be developed. So, uh, he looked at it and said, okay, he'll come back to me. And then, I believe, he checked with few other vendors locally. But then, when he saw the clarity with which I was able to go back to him with the scoping and the requirement description and also the commercials, he went with us, he, we. That was my first international order in 2017 and, yeah, and that's how I got it.
Speaker 1:So it's from a, you know, a long friend through whom I got that particular project here right, but now you're into mean, since you're the CEO of your organization, so your priority is always getting that first. I mean getting that order for your organization.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, definitely For us. Are you asking if international orders are the? Priority yes yes, absolutely yeah, exactly as a software company. You know, I'm sure any software company would like to have international orders more than domestic.
Speaker 1:Right, so you started in 2017. Even prior to that, you had a mix of both technical as well as sales background, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started in 2011. This business started in 2011. My corporate life career started in 2004. And so from 2011 2011, we've been making software. So from 2004 it's been sales I've been in field sales, literally and then 2011, it's been software and sales. So, yeah, and focus has always been to generate international projects, because the size is bigger, the profitability is higher.
Speaker 1:Right, and what challenges have you faced when you first started expanding your service to international market, and how did you overcome those challenges?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so from 2011 till 2017, we were catering to local customers and it was more of a passion that I had than you know running it as a professional organization. So the the first uh order international order that we received, you know, first thing is every customer I used to call them up anytime I wanted I could, you know, set up a meeting with them anytime I wanted. There was no time difference or, you know, I'll have to be available when that person is available, so the meeting has to be pre-scheduled. So there was a little bit of a communication challenge initially, because I was not used to it, you know, and that was a very small, relatively very, very small issue because with respect to developing the solution, we were already quite strong With respect to giving what the customer needs or developing what the customer needs. That was already in place. So I think the only challenge that we had was with respect to communication.
Speaker 2:So the way we overcame that was we automated our communication. So what we did was we created automated emails that went out to the customer even before the customer asked us hey, what is the status? The mails went out to customer automatically from our internal project management tool that we have developed and also the team. We have created a standard operating procedure for the team to ensure that they are updating to the customer on a daily basis and the internal tool, the software that we use. It ensures that the update has been done to the customer. That's how it's been built. So we used all these methods to ensure that the communication aspects, which was a little bit of a challenge, we overcame that and the client was kept happy always of a challenge.
Speaker 1:We. We overcame that and the client was kept happy, always okay. So you you're saying, like you know, you constantly update your leaves or potential prospect with your company's information and project update, uh, was a tool like you know, which you guys have created. Is it a kind of a drip campaign tool, or I mean an email campaign tool, or it's specific to only project managing? Project management as well as it does email campa.
Speaker 2:Now I was actually mentioning about an existing customer of ours, someone who we are developing the software where we use these automated updates, but with prospects and leads reference. I get in touch with them through either on a call or I request them to come on an online meeting or on WhatsApp chat or something like that. So that's how it happens. So we have not really implemented automated communication mechanism with prospects or something. We've not done that because I'm the only sales guy in the company. So I'm the founder and CEO. I'm the only sales guy in the company.
Speaker 1:Well, that could be challenging, isn't it Thompson? So what are the steps you take on a day-to-day basis to generate that leads, or to generate that first interaction with your prospect? What people say is opening the door right, because you already mentioned that your technical team is very strong. You already have the fundamental in place in terms of technical deliveries and other stuff. So what are the action items you take, like you know, to get that entry, the first entry, while interacting with the people, like cold calling or email campaigns or, you know, in any other seo or any other ways yeah, so when I started in 2011, you know, I I started after working in corporates for seven years and I was successful in sales.
Speaker 2:I used to do cold calling and it was quite successful. And then, in 2011, when I started, I and the two in a field that was relatively new for me, though it was a passion, software was a passion and it was a hobby for me I slowly started getting into networking. I joined the networking organization called BNI and all of my inquiries that we've been getting is either through networking, through BNI, or contacts whom I have known for many years. So that's how all our inquiries come from. And, you know, we have not really used any paid platforms so far. We have not gotten to uh. We've experimented various, but we've still uh. We have stuck on to the, you know, ensuring that we continuously communicate in the social media. We communicate with all our friends regularly, with all our customers regularly, and that's how we keep generating our inquiries.
Speaker 1:You mentioned about BNI, like how long you've been associated with them. Is that a networking group or a platform like where all the CEOs get together? What is it like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been in BNI for 10 years and BNI is a 39-year-old organization, started in the US. I think it's been in India for more than 15 years now and it is a networking organization. It's a referral generation organization where, as you said rightly, ceos, founders, sales personnel come together and we help each other out to find referrals for each other.
Speaker 1:So, thomas, when and why did you decide to offer offshore development services at Regola? Offer offshore development services at Regola.
Speaker 2:Yeah See, when I started Regola in 2011, it was more of an accidental start. It is not something that I had planned or strategized or created a business plan and then implemented it. It was not something like that. It was more of a. In fact, I was in a very different industry. I was in the real estate industry when I started my business and then I started creating software tools for the role that I was playing over there. I was one of the directors there and because of the passion that I had in software because I started learning software from my school days, by the way, as an extracurricular activities and I just kept learning one software after the other and I started creating tools for myself, so that my life became easy in the role that I was playing, and I started getting inquiries for the these tools that I was preparing.
Speaker 2:So another director in the company looked at it and said, hey, can you implement it in my business? I've got some challenges in inventory. Then I went, went to his uh company and then I sat with him, understood the requirement and we I created a small tool for him and then he was, um, very happy with it. That's almost 12 years back now and and still, even today, they're using that very small tool, but it's very practical and it solves their problem. And they referred a lot of clients to me me he's well connected person, so he referred and that's how the business took off. That's how it, you know, took off and, to be honest, I really did not have a proper business plan set or you know how to do things.
Speaker 2:And also in 2017, as I said, when my friend contacted me by looking at a post in social media saying that hey, thomas, I've got a requirement, can you do something for me? I said yes, and then that's how it started. So, if you ask me, did I really plan for it? No, but today, in 2024, in fact, the last few years, right from the time COVID started and all, we've been very, very intentional about spreading our message across and and ensuring that more and more people from different countries come to know about us, and we are very intentional now. In fact, bni is also opening doors for me to attend international events where I'm able to network with business owners and decision makers from various other countries. So it's being done very intentionally.
Speaker 1:And what makes your organization stand out from the IT service market? Because there are so many offshoring development companies, isn't it, thomas? Yeah, especially in the southern part of India. Even in the northern part of India, things are growing very fast and the competition is very high, isn't it? Especially the pricing and other stuff. Obviously, I always felt that Southern companies have lots of experience compared to what the Northern part of India offers. So how do your organizations stand differ in the crowded market? If I may add another substitute to that, what value add does it bring to the international clients?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, as I told you, this organization Rejola. It started when passion met a very you know rather a strong need in the market. So when I developed tools for myself, I had no clue that there was a market out there where micro, small, medium, even large organizations had a need for such tools, such softwares, to be developed. I did not know that at that time. I thought, you know, only very large software companies can develop softwares for organizations. So it is more of a passion that is driving this organization and it's not just profit.
Speaker 2:So one of the you know, I would say, the offerings that we bring to the table for an international client. First thing is reliability. In 2017, of course, I did a software for a friend of mine and then then, in 2018, we started with another client in UK who was again connected me, connected by a mutual friend I would say not a friend, a contact whom I've known through bni. She connected me to this person in uk and then we exchanged you, he exchanged the requirements with me as exchange of details with him, and then, from 2018 till today, they're still continuing with us and it's real. Reliability is what I would say that they're still continuing with us, they're extremely happy with us and they have given us multiple requirements and referrals.
Speaker 2:And it's also value for money proposition. You know, it's a known fact that when, when a company from the US or UK comes to India to develop a software, usually the development costs are far more you know better when compared to developing them over there in their in their own location. So that's another major value add we give so and we ensure that the outcome that we develop is exactly the way they need it. So there is no need of an apprehension for the client or they need not feel that, hey, I'm giving these guys this, this particular project, will it come out the way that we ensure that it will come out?
Speaker 1:so that's, that's the uh, I would say probably that's what makes a standout can you share any example of a project which you have completed in the recent past where you applied all the strategy, like you know, from the time the scope, you received the scope and the delivery happened?
Speaker 2:yeah, definitely so. In 2018, we were introduced to a manufacturing company and at that time, their annual turnover was around 10 crores and they are into heavy equipment manufacturing, and one of the biggest challenge that they faced was whenever a client called them. Let's say, a five-year-old client or a 10-year-old client who's been with them for quite some time called them and said that, hey, your equipment is not working. They did not have any software in place, they were completely doing it manually. Three friends got together and started a company and then they just kept growing, and so they decided in 2018 that I think we should slowly start onboarding a software. We should, we should have a software. Um, when they approached us, they said, thomas, we've already approached three, three other vendors, but you were referred by our business consultant, so we just want to give you a try. I said, okay. Then I sat with them and they explained to me what is the requirement. I just made a quick note of everything, and then they said can you make a demo? Can you show me a demo? I said, sir, we are a custom software development organization. We do not come with a product I cannot show you a demo but rather we develop the way you need it. And then they said, no, no, thomas, you'll have to show us some demo. And it was company, you know, 10 Pros for us at that time was a big organization for us, you know, for the kind of software that we were going to get. Then I said, okay, so fine, you've given me this requirement. What I'll do is I'll come back to you with a mock-up of the software. Okay, I'll not be able to show you a complete working model, but a mock-up of the software. They said, yeah, please go ahead.
Speaker 2:And then I, we, I went to my office. I told my team that, hey guys, this is a good project for us. Let's create a mock-up of the whole thing. No functionality, just show you know how the software would look like. We put the whole thing into front end and just make something so that I can, we can show to the organization and build confidence with them that, yeah, we have understood what they need and we can deliver what they need.
Speaker 2:So my team put up, you know, the entire layout and all the menu and all that and and the way it was structured was exactly the way that they wanted it. They explained to me is why we structured the whole menu in that the flow, click of the buttons and all it was very, very logically set up in, you know, classified in as departments and all that. So I went back to them after a few days probably around three or four days and then I showed them the demo and they were extremely happy because the other three vendors had shown them what they had and the menus were not the way they wanted it. They, if they wanted a feature, it was like click three, four buttons, go inside and you'll get it over there.
Speaker 2:It was like it was not that they would get a software to facilitate them growing. Instead, they are forced to adapt to another software, which is not at all the way they do. But since they need those reports, they have to go in that. And so they were contemplating whether should we go with those vendors or not. And here we are and showing them exactly what they told us. You know, whatever they, whatever they said, however, the flow should be, the whole thing has been structured like that. So they said okay, thomas, how much do you charge? Because that was another issue they had, because those vendors were giving per user license or you know which was like much more affordable, and it's a well-known fact in the market that when it comes to a custom software it's like a package software. You know the market that when it comes to a custom software.
Speaker 2:It's like a package software you need. You know it's a bigger amount. So they asked me how much will you charge? I told them, sir, I'll charge you 16 000 rupees per month and we'll do the software. And they were shocked because, again, that was not something that custom software development companies usually tell, and I that was the first 16 000 indian rupees.
Speaker 1:You're talking yes, not you. Okay, I was shocked like 16,000 USD per month, no Indian rupees, yeah.
Speaker 2:So this organization. They were surprised and they said, okay, the risk is so small and let's start. Let's see, you know, because you guys are showing us what we need and you guys are charging us pittance, so let's start. And then I said, okay, but the requirement at that time was just status update, the entire organization, status update of the whole manufacturing process. Each manufacturing could take up to one month or three months, depending on the size of the heavy equipment.
Speaker 2:So we created the software and within a couple of months, they saw that they were getting exactly what they wanted status update and all that was coming. And they decided, hey, if we are able to get this from this company, why don't we start exploring other aspects with them? Maybe a crm, maybe an inventory management, maybe a vendor management, maybe a, you know, purchase department module, like that. They started adding modules, one after the other, one after the other. So from 2018 until today, we have we have literally implemented the entire ERP for them, right from the raw material purchase to the service department completely, and we recently captured I mean, we have taken another major order from them.
Speaker 2:I don't want to disclose the value, because this is a bigger one and it's for a complete revamp of the software for a full-fledged ERP. And they have also you know the organization they have kind of floated another organization for service multi-brand service of their heavy equipment, so that's another one. So for that also, we've developed an entire ERP solution for them and today that organization is doing a turnover of 110 crores, started at 10 crores. In 2018 they're at 110 crores. They've also started international operations and all of these things that we have done for them. I can tell you the cost of the whole implementation, when compared to the market rates, is at one third the cost, right, okay, and that's why they're sticking with us and they're getting the value. Uh, you know that, that they are expecting. You know the, what they need for the for the operations to run smoothly. So this is one, I think, one, success story that I can say that fantastic, sounds good.
Speaker 1:And what about the post implementation support? Because I think you started with something small and gradually, you know, I've developed an entire erp system for a manufacturing firm. Uh, but again, support and maintenance would also be challenged, right compared to what other vendors would automatically offer. So how about that? Like you know, how did you go about that? Yeah, and they were based in us, or, uh, this client, this company, is in chennai chennai okay, fine, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So uh, I can give you a uk-based client example also. Probably that's another case study. I'll tell after that you know, this question that you asked me. So what we do is any software that we develop. In the proposal itself we clearly tell them that one year support is given for free. Okay, already it's at a you know highly valuable.
Speaker 2:You know value for money costing that we give, as I said, 130 cost, but we give them one year support for free. Now why do we do that? The reason is because we are a custom software development company. So the one of the apprehensions that many clients have when it's a custom software development is you guys are going to develop it now. What's going to happen after the development? Will it work exactly? So we we give them the confidence that hey, we are a 13 year old organization, we've kept all our customers happy and we'll give you one year support completely for free.
Speaker 2:So what typically happens is whenever we develop a software, typically for the first one, two, three months, usually there are, you know, requests from the client saying that, hey, can you please modify this particular page, can you add another field here, or maybe add an approval here, or something like that. It it comes in the first two or three months. It comes and then after third month it's all silent. There's no, not much of a request. Maybe once in two, three months there's a small request coming from somewhere and the client is quite happy. By within five to six months he is quite happy, okay, with the whole thing that's happening and from the second year onwards, we have an amc agreement with the client where the client can sign up an amc with us and we can we continue with them. As I said, the clients whom we on goaded in 2012 are still with us, so we sign up in amc with them every year and we do it.
Speaker 2:That is one model yearly maintenance another model is we have a monthly retainer model where every month we we charge a retainer and we ensure that our team is available for them whenever they need it. So that's how we take care of the support and the maintenance and everything after the implementation.
Speaker 1:Right, and Thomas, you also told, when doing this custom development, where a customer always have this fear, like you know, what if a guy is moved away, what will I do with the codes? And if the new team comes in, like you know, will they can understand what you guys have created. So do you guys simplify the process? For example, listen, I've created this massive vrp system. Even if tomorrow, if I'm not there, any new guys or any new vendor comes into the picture, they can take over easily. Do you guys have that in the mind, like you know, when developing something like this?
Speaker 2:yeah. So in 2011, when we started, you know, when I used to tell my all my customers so that, sir will support you forever, we'll be there, and they said no, you guys have just started. How, how can you tell me? I said no, sir, we will do that, we'll take care of it. And then it took us a lot of convincing, you know, convincing the client that, sir, we do it, we'll be there for you, don't worry about it. This is a passion. We are not doing this for money. We'll not go away, we'll be there.
Speaker 2:But today, I think, after 13 years, we can proudly and confidently say and we've got 340 customers behind us who will back us, you know, saying that, yeah, these guys will stay back, you know, and all along, these are guys who will not go away, so anytime we need them, they're going to be there. So I think today I can say confidently that we will never abandon our customers. We will never, you know, leave them with the software that we've created for them to find another vendor, vendor to take that forward. That situation will not arise. But in case it arises, for whatever reason, if the I mean this is in general okay, it's also applicable for us, because we also get a lot of customers who have had another vendor and they've not received proper service and they've come to us. We've got a lot of customers like that. So what we have to do, it's again a challenge for us. We'll have to go sit with the code, we'll have the code that the other company has developed and understand the entire code. It takes a little time. So the team that we have one of the coincidence that has happened is since I approach coding as passion and solution creation as passion, even the team that we have, everybody approaches coding as passion, otherwise they cannot survive with this. Okay, because that's the kind of culture we have.
Speaker 2:So these guys, if they look at a code, they try to understand okay, what is the purpose of this code, what is the requirement of the client, why is the client even asking for this? So they try to relate it with the customer benefit and do it. So we adopt. We've taken up many projects like that and we have, in fact, uh, customers come to us saying that, hey, this software is full of bugs and the other vendor is not supporting us.
Speaker 2:You know, and they are. They are asking for a very high amount for for us to maintain it and all that. So we say, okay, fine, let's have a look at it and we take it up. We we study the entire code and then we start slowly rewriting the code, part by part, and try to ensure that all the bugs are being fixed. We've got many cases like that, where we help the client like that. So if you ask if at all a client decides to go away from us which has not happened but if it happens, if the developer is quite good, they can understand what is there and what is the logic being used and they can definitely pick it up from there I don't want any.
Speaker 1:I don't want you to lose any of your clients, uh, since you manage them for such a long period of time, but just a situation you never know, right, like anything could happen. So so, as a vendor, my thing was, like you know, whether you give proper documentation for uh for them to understand if and if tomorrow, like you know, they want to have their own developers, because you know many organizations even I've seen, like you know, they kind of uh use external vendors for developing project, but over the years they want to have some internal team taking care of it as well. Uh, so, yeah, so so I'll tell you.
Speaker 2:In that scenario, what we do is we've had scenarios where it companies have approached us for a software. Okay, so why they do that is, you know, they may have a set team, maybe hundreds of team members, thousand team members, who may be working on specific projects. So they may receive one particular project where they may require, let's say, 10 or 20 people working on it. So instead of trying to reshuffle their internal team and all, they just outsource the entire project to us. So we've had scenarios like that in the past. In that scenario, what we do is we create the entire documentation because the client expects it. It's one of the deliverables from our side. The entire documentation is prepared. And another deliverable might also be a knowledge transfer. We may have to literally do a knowledge transfer to the team so that they can then take over the maintenance from there. So again, see what happens is documentation doing a knowledge transfer?
Speaker 2:all that is an effort, you know where I have to put a team to sit and do that and, to you know, explain the code and all. So what we do, and especially clients who come to us, are small and medium businesses who are really not interested in documentation. They are interested in running their business. They are interested in making profits, growing their business. So when they come to us saying that, hey, thomas, I've got this problem, how can you fix it, they'll say, okay, let me sit and understand the problem. So I sit with them, understand the problem and then when I deliver something to them, they in fact many of them, don't even mind whether, or don't even care whether it is Java or Node or React or Angular.
Speaker 2:If I say those words, they'll in fact probably get offended. Say that Thomas, why are you telling me all that? Tell me, how will it help me? Right, you know? So our entire approach is like that. We approach saying that, hey, this will help you increase your sales, this will help you manage your inventory. This will help you increase your sales. This will help you manage your inventory.
Speaker 1:This will help you reduce your cost. So that's the approach that we bring to every single project that we do. Fair enough, agree with you. And what about the uk client you mentioned?
Speaker 2:you know you developed some, yeah so, um, how did we help them? So in 2000, that also came to us in 2018. Again, it was, as I said, through a BNI referral. So what they do is they are into phone case printing. They print on top of phone cases and they've got their manufacturing in another place. They've got their marketing being handled in another place. They've got their UK as their head office being handled in another place. They've got their uk as their head office and they, until then, all the orders that they were receiving, they were.
Speaker 2:They were basically the fulfillment centers. Okay, they operated as a fulfillment center and they had their own e-commerce store, but they received orders from e-commerce stores around the world. Okay, so every day they received, uh, 10 orders, 50 orders, and sometimes during festive times, and all that probably 500 and 1000 orders. Sometimes, you know, not always so they had to manually type them out. So each of these uh, you know the selling companies, the e-commerce companies they sent orders in their own formats, in Excel sheets or maybe through email. They just forward it and they had to manually upload these. If there is any change in format, they had to correct the format. So it was an extremely manual process and which caused a huge delay in them just to get the entire orders into their order processing system and that caused a lot of discomfort with the online stores, with the customers, because there was a delay getting added because of the manual process involved.
Speaker 2:So this company approached us asking us if we could automate the from the e-commerce website to the order processing software that they had. Can we automate whatever orders come from them, because this e-commerce website might have 100 different products, out of which only four of them might be for this order processing, you know requirement which has to come to this order processing. So what we did? We created a code which automatically installed onto the e-commerce platform. Okay, so whenever there was an e-commerce platform which came to this company in the uk saying that, hey, you can, you guys, be our fulfillment center. We'll sell and you be the fulfillment center, all that now they have to do is click a button and the the software gets installed onto the e-commerce store and it scans every order that comes and whenever there is an order meant for the uh, the uk client, it picks it up, reformats that order in a or in in the format that the order processing software can accept and pushes it into the order processing software. So whatever was done manually is now done automatically by the software. The entire thing. So even it is a hundred orders in a day, thousand orders in a day the entire thing sits on the order management system. There is no need of any. There is no time lag, so when the order is placed here, it reflects on the order management system if it is the order meant for this company.
Speaker 2:So we did this in 2018. We automated this. So initially, what we did was, since the order count was a little less, we did a direct integration. Okay, over a period of time, the number of orders increased and this direct integration did not work. Okay. So the reason is because the number of stores have increased and this server was not able to handle the number of uh, you know the order management software that they had, our intermediary software that we created, where it was pushing it. This is not accepting all the orders, because it was already struggling with many orders coming in. So what we did is we had to rewrite the entire code in last year. We did that, instead of directly sending from the e-commerce to the order management, what we did is we created a repository in between and we sent these orders on a regular basis, you know, maybe in a 5 minute interval or a 10 minute interval, and we sent the next one only if there's a confirmation that the previous one has got accepted. Right, okay, so this ensured that there was no missing out. Earlier.
Speaker 2:What was happening was when the first solution that we created, it worked perfectly. For the first 2-3 years, there was no problem. 2018, 19, 20, 21 and all it worked After that. What happened is some orders because of the order processing not accepting the order, because of the heavy load it had, it was getting rejected and it sat there. Sat there and the client started complaining, saying that, hey, out of 100, two orders got missed. What happened? So then we created this simple check in between, saying that if the order gets accepted, send the other one. If it's not accepted, send the same one again till it is getting accepted. So we started doing that, and we did that last year and now, in fact, we hardly get any calls from the UK client.
Speaker 2:You know it's like we're just sitting idle because the whole system just runs by itself and it and it. It is like a foolproof now. It takes care of itself. Even if something gets missed out. It again checks after some time, then pushes the order again. So this is how we've helped the client in UK. Again we've had a very good monetary benefit, or we've really had a good billing with this customer because we've supported them and ensured that every single aspect of theirs is automated the e-commerce store installation, the shifting, pushing of the orders into the order management and also ensuring that if anything gets missed out it gets updated automatically.
Speaker 1:Right, and what is the duration of this project? Amish.
Speaker 2:We started in 2018. I think the first version got over in about three months and then it's been a retainer. We are on a monthly retainer with them, so every month typically they'll have at least four or five requirements that comes. But nowadays it's come down a lot because the system has been automated. It's like a self-repair you know mechanism if anything goes wrong, the system itself repairs it and then moves forward. So nowadays we hardly get any requirements from them and thomas, you mentioned about you.
Speaker 1:You again, you got this lead from bni, right, yes, so is there any other opportunity? Like you know, because, whatever you said, like you know, largely your organization depends on your personal networking that through bni. Is there any other way? Like you know, largely your organization depends on your personal networking, that through BNI. Is there any other way? Like you know, you're using at this moment or focusing at the moment, like you know, to generate some international orders.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn. I try to be active on LinkedIn a lot and then I also attend online meetings, which again is on through BNI online meetings I attend and then I conduct weekly meetings with entrepreneurs. There are close to there are two meetings that I conduct every meet. There are more than 50, 60 of them in each of them. So we have regular meetings where we network and we try to, you know, exchange ideas and generate referrals and all that. So it's all through networking, to be honest, all through networking, yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 1:And how do you manage communication between on-site and offshore team? Because any project you take or start it's a long. You know development work like in six months, two years, at times even three years, you know, when it comes to custom development. So how do you manage smooth communication with your international audience?
Speaker 1:yeah, because that can be tough, right, like you know, because you, you two, speak well, but you can't front end every time in the project, isn't it like you know that it has to be someone like a project manager. So what are the tools you use to ensure smooth communication with your clients?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly as I said, you know when, in 2017, when I took up that first project of the crowdfunding platform, one of the aspects which I I was not familiar with was, uh, communicating with a client. You know, as I said, I just cannot pick up the phone and call them and it has to be be pre-planned and getting them on board, because regular interactions are mandatory for a custom software development. So what we have done is we have completely automated the communication process itself. So what we have done, we have created a live tracking link. So the entire scope of the project, whatever we've discussed during the requirement gathering, is put in our internal project management tool. So we have our internal project management tool, which we have developed in-house, and the entire scope is put there. And as the team works on the project, they make updates on this scope, so they mention which of these scope items is completed, to what extent it is completed, and this link is emailed to the client automatically once in every two or three days or whenever there is an update from the team. So what happens is the client is never in dark or the client is never kept silent. I mean, it's not that there is almost two weeks. There has not been any communication or the client need not wait for the next meeting until they get the communication. So the communication to the client has been completely automated. So that is one Second thing that we do is all the projects that we work on, we create a demo server, a demo link, where, whatever development happens, we push it to the server where the client can log in.
Speaker 2:Within the first one week or so we give the client a login. So, even if it is the user you know the, let's say, the signup module has been created, the client can log in and check. If it's a master that's been created, the client can log in and check, and we in fact insist that the client has to log in and check. So that's how we actually work created, the client can log in and check, and we we in fact insist that the client has to log in and check. So that's how we actually work with the client. We we in fact demand from the client that, saying that, sir, are you checking this? You know, are you going through this? We are developing it for you. Are you doing it?
Speaker 2:And then something that we started last year is is like we've implemented a methodology where the client will have to accept whatever is being completed. So when we say that so and so module is completed, we we basically update the percentage like 10 percent complete, 50 percent complete, 100 percent complete. And when we say it's 100 percent complete, we tell the customer sir, please go on this page, it's a link that we email to them. They have to click it, open it and they have to put a percentage of acceptance saying that yeah, I also accept that it is 100 completed. Now if they don't put the 100 percent 100 completed and they say it's only 50, then we go back to them and say why do you say it's 50? What is it that you know has not come out the way that you are expecting?
Speaker 2:And then we ensure that we complete that particular part the way the client needs it and then we move on to the next module. So this simple way of automating the entire process. In fact our team, when they work on the project, they have to work through the scope only. That's how their time calculation and everything happens. So the entire functioning of the programmers happens in such a way that the client receives automated updates. So now there is no complaint from the client saying that, hey, I'm not receiving an update or what is happening. Where is the demo and all that?
Speaker 1:Fantastic, that sounds very impressive and also, I'm sure you would be showing the demo of each module which you guys develop during multiple stages, isn't it? It's not only about written communication or the project update software you tool. You also need to show that your client after every development stage isn't it exactly?
Speaker 2:we create a demo link where even the signup module, the master, is being created, every single aspect is being uploaded and shown to the client, and the client has to accept saying that, yes, this has come out the way I want it and how do you onboard clients and ensure they understand, uh, the offshore development process, especially for your company, because you guys have a proper system in place.
Speaker 1:Uh, so do you educate the customer the you know during the initial level meeting or once you get the scope, because that part of communication is very important for you to win the deal as well, the kind of automation you have?
Speaker 2:absolutely yeah. So what we do is whatever I've just mentioned about our live tracking and the client. We have all of that in our proposal itself. No, really, we mentioned everything and in fact we've had situations where like we, for example, in one of you know one of the things that we tell in our proposal is that we need a project champion from your side, somebody who is available regularly, someone who can give us updates regularly, someone who can check the demo link and mark the acceptance. So we in fact tell them that, okay, you guys are giving us the project, fine, we will do that for you, but there is a responsibility on your side as we develop it. So we write that in our proposal and we've had scenarios where some customers have asked us why are you? You know I'm paying you guys, but you guys are asking me to do certain work. And then we tell them that, sir, that's how it works. It's it's something.
Speaker 2:Until and unless we don't interact with you and your feedback is not taken during development, the outcome is never going to be the way you need it. Will it work for you? Yeah, but you might have to piston turn to ensure that it works, but if you are also part of the development process and you're a project champion all through the project. It will come out exactly the way you need it and the cultural shock in your organization might be minimized. Many times a software is brought into a company, the the team usually resists it. You know they don't accept it straight away. There's a lot of resistance that comes in because you're, they're all, uh, they've all been working with pen and paper or with their mind and just, you know, doing things on their own and suddenly there's a process that is brought in, suddenly there's a system that's brought in. There's a huge cultural shock that happens in that inside the organization and many of the team members resisted uh, if it's not handled correctly, if the team is not involved in the development process, right and any failed project.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm sure, like you know, with the kind of knowledge you have and team you have, most of them would have been a big success. Uh, but reaching this point I'm sure you would have failed at some point of time and that's one of the reason you created this automated system.
Speaker 2:Definitely yes, we've had failures, not that we've not had like. I can give you one of the examples. A client asked us to prepare a portal for an ngo. So this portal was supposed to connect the service providers with the people who sought the service. It was like a connection bridge between both of these and since it was an NGO, it also had a payment gateway, involved donations and all that. So when we started the project, we kickstarted the project but, being an NGO, the founder of the organization was not tech savvy. They were more like serving the people, taking care of the needy, but not on a tech savvy side. So we faced huge challenges just to communicate to them what was being done, how it was being done, so showing a demo.
Speaker 2:We faced a lot of challenges there and what happened was, you know, a couple of years back, the payment gateways got into trouble. You know payment gateways even now also, not every company is able to receive a payment gateway on time Last year and all it was put on hold for some time. Payment gateway on time last year and all it was put on hold for some time. And even as an NGO, to receive that tax benefit. You know, I think it's called form 80 or something like that I'm not sure I don't remember the exact jargon. So that's an approval that they get from the government to collect donations and the person who is paying receives a tax benefit.
Speaker 2:There also, there was a delay from the client because the government had made it very strict during that time and I think that was a time when a lot of FCRA were being revoked from companies, so there was a lot of scrutiny being done on NGOs and why are they using these exemptions, tax exemptions and all.
Speaker 2:So there was a delay to get the approvals and this delay. The customer was not able to accept the delay and the timing and all. So by the time, because that was required for us to do the payment integration and that was one of the items that was on hold for a very long time and we were not able to do that and that delay and everything. Then finally clients said, okay, we are going to put this project on hold for a very long time and we were not able to do that and that delay and everything. Then finally client said, okay, we're going to put this project on hold for now. We're not going to continue with this project. So that was one of the cases where, you know, the project was abruptly stopped after we and we received a payment for what we completed. It's not that the client did not pay us, he paid us for what was completed, but we couldn't successfully finish the whole project because of those aspects.
Speaker 1:Was it for a domestic client?
Speaker 2:It was a domestic client Right.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, so that's the only case you have.
Speaker 2:If you ask me, have there been other cases?
Speaker 1:Obviously there could be, but overall what I've heard from you so far in terms of your approach and, uh, the the complete automated process.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you cases probably I wouldn't say failure, but cases where we have not made profits. Okay, I can tell that. So what? What would have happened in certain cases which have happened is, um, like we sign up a project and the one is the client might not give us all the information on time. Okay, something that we may have thought would get completed in three months if all the information is available. But the client is either the client had some personal challenges or business challenges or priority shifting or something, and they decide not to give us information after two months, for whatever reason, not not because they don't want to, but because of some priorities.
Speaker 2:And then what happens is this project, which is supposed to get over in three months, might drag for six months, and we don't charge our customers a penny extra if it, if they delay the project.
Speaker 2:So that's a commitment that we bring on to the table.
Speaker 2:So how we manage that is, we try to use our team for other projects, but many a times that doesn't happen because we don't get another project for an interim period of three months and then we go back so it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:So we don't go and tell the customer no, we're going to charge you another 50% extra or 20% extra. So we for that customer because we understand that they're going through, like during COVID, many customers we just said, okay, don't pay us a retainer, it's fine. And I know you guys are struggling, so just leave the retainer, no problem. But by God's grace, of course, during COVID we had a good financial you know cash flow happening because we had projects coming in during COVID so many customers who were really struggling we just told them no problem. And if you ask, were those projects profitable? No, we actually incurred losses in those projects Wherever a client delays it or a client is unable to pay us for some time. So, yeah, we've let go of profits in a few projects, but overall, yeah, clients have been with us and it's really worked well for us.
Speaker 1:Sounds good, Thomas. And what future technology do you see as a game changer for the offshore development industry? Anything you want to bet on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so nowadays, nowadays, obviously it is the artificial intelligence, machine learning and all these things are coming in, and also there's a lot of buzz on low code applications and all that well, that's been there for a long time, yeah, yeah yeah, it's been there for a long time but somehow we've not really adopted it much.
Speaker 2:Because when we do a custom software development and we create something that's very unique for the client, with a lot of features and ability to customize it any way that we need, you know certain areas when we use low code applications, for example, they have not really tested every platform. So you know, it's not that I'm telling as an expert, but what happens is whenever we use a framework or a platform that we can adopt into a project, there are limitations that it poses. Okay, so when a client needs a specific feature in a specific manner, and if that particular framework or or that particular methodology is not providing it, then we'll have to do a workaround and then we'll have to tell the client that, hey, methodology is not providing it, then we'll have to do a workaround and then we'll have to tell the client that hey, this is not possible, we'll have to do something. So most of the work that we do is literal core development. We usually typically do not go to frameworks until and unless we are extremely sure that using a framework can help in that particular project. So, yeah, low code is something people have been asking and ai ml is also something that people have been looking at and you know, trying to integrate them into the projects.
Speaker 2:And I would say, see, artificial intelligence is something that's always been in a software.
Speaker 2:So, for example, that uk example that I gave the, the middleware software that sits between the e-commerce and the order processing it's actually like an artificial intelligence application sitting there and monitoring whatever is happening and picking up those specific orders and pushing it to the order management and checking again if it's been punched in correctly and then sending it back again if it's not been punched in.
Speaker 2:So the entire logic that's been put over there is like a human being sitting in. So the entire logic that's been put over there is like a human being sitting there and monitoring the entire auto processing system. So this has already been integrated. It's going to increase, it's going to become far more and even in customer service, like the initial answering of questions to a customer when they come for any like service requests and all that that might probably be handled entirely by AI in the future and only probably a summary of it would be given to the internal team so that then they can get back to the client if required. So those are areas I think we are going to see, uh, some changes happening going forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, how does your organization planning to invest in ai and in blockchain and other areas?
Speaker 2:you guys planning to build a team or you already have a started training resources in that so one of the cultural items that we give a lot of significance in our organization is that we give a lot of significance in our organization is we ensure that every team member is continuously learning. So we in fact track this learning. We've got a training, learning, tracking, a simple LMS that's in, that's inside our tool, where we give small projects also to our team members to learn new technologies, new methodologies and we keep evaluating that. You know the progress. We track the progress on a weekly basis and we evaluate that once every few months. And we also have a skill rating. Every team member has to update their skills, the rating that they give to that, and we appreciate those with the highest skills.
Speaker 2:So it's like a culture that we've brought into our organization. So all these technologies that are there, the team is continuously learning. So when we get a project, if it's a new project, if the client is okay that we do an MVP, a minimum viable product, or something, initially we use our existing team. If the client is saying no, we use our existing team. If the client is saying no, we need an experienced team, then we'll have to onboard from the market right, and what is your typical day in your life?
Speaker 1:look like as a CEO of Rajola? I know, like you know, you're a busy person, so how do you manage your day-to-day activities?
Speaker 2:okay. So I have a morning and an evening routine which kind of you know, sets me for the day and also for the night. So I invest in the morning at least two to three hours, for I divide my time into spirit, soul and body. So it's it's like starting from reading the Bible, praying and working out, I take my dog out for a walk. So all these things put together helps me to start my day. And then I read something, like now I just picked up a book on ERP. Though we've been doing ERPs, I thought, okay, let me read something about it so that I can probably help the customer more. So I read in the morning and then again in the evening I do a small routine of spirit, soul and body. So I give a lot of emphasis on spirit, um, spiritual aspects. So that that's what helps me to remain peaceful, calm, you know, charged up, uh, no matter what the situation well much needed, isn't it?
Speaker 1:thomas, it was wonderful talking to you. Uh, you know, I was more like fascinated as to, if you look at, during the entire conversation of my previous episodes and all. I'm pretty talkative, like you know, I keep talking, but during talking to you, like you know, I was just observing. I want to see, like you know, because there's so much of information you have shared in the last 45 minutes or 50 minutes. Uh, so it was a learning lesson for me. So it was wonderful talking to you, it's a pleasure and I hope to catch up with you soon, thomas.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you very much, Suresh. It's been a pleasure and you asked very good questions. It's been almost like a coaching session for me also, so you know.
Speaker 1:Well, to be very honest, I was pretty intimidated by your presence in the podcast.
Speaker 2:I hope it's been. Yeah, it was wonderful. Yeah, thank you, cheers. Talk to you soon. Thank you very much. Yeah, so we'll catch up again. So I'll come back to you on those requirements that you support. Sure, sure, thank you, cheers. Thank you very much. Bye.
Speaker 1:Bye, no-transcript.
