Ep.047: Grace Under Pressure

Conflict rarely destroys a team all at once. It chips away through small misunderstandings, tension in meetings, and messages that land wrong. In this episode we talk about why conflict feels constant in certain seasons and what leaders can actually do about it.

We cover the hidden costs of unresolved conflict: disengagement, gossip, broken trust, and turnover that could have been prevented. We also get into what forgiveness at work actually means, not ignoring what happened or skipping consequences, but releasing it so bitterness doesn't run your culture.

You'll get practical steps you can use right away: address issues early, go directly to the person, listen before you make your point, and separate the person from the problem.

If you lead a team or work on one, this is a straightforward conversation on conflict resolution, communication, and building a culture that can handle hard conversations.

Subscribe, share with someone on your team, and drop a comment: what's one conflict you've been avoiding that needs a direct conversation?

Transcript

Brady Is Out And Business Updates

SPEAKER_00 0:14

All right, Benji and just Benji. Welcome in to another episode. That was kind of weird, guys. I know. It felt kind of weird. I'm normal. I'm used to having two of y'all. Brady is uh indisposed. He's tied up. He's tied up. So, but again, the last episode we talked a lot about growth and things that you guys are doing. And that's honestly where Brady is. Is he's got some things going on. You guys are making some moves and continuing to grow. And so he was like, hey guys, I've I've I've got a ton of data.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

But the good thing is uh we are we're trying to expand again in the surf pro space. Yeah. Um, so I've already visited a couple locations. Um most people don't know this. My role for the company is chief strategy officer, basically acquisition strategy, business development, high-level things like that. Yeah. Uh you've you guys have probably seen on our social media, LinkedIn uh pages, and whatever. We have a partnership with the Dallas Cowboys. We uh we actually just uh had the draft, which the Cowboys had a fantastic draft. I know Tampa Bay doesn't like to hear that, but the Cowboys had a fantastic draft night. Um it was really cool to see Caleb Downs, you know, from Ohio State, who was an Alabama guy uh as a freshman, um being pick number 11. And the when he walked out, man, the music that he played was CC Winin's, which was still.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I saw somebody post something about that that they that you couldn't hear it over the over the draft. Yeah, but I saw a reel where somebody had filmed that was in the audience.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

So cool, so cool. But again, also out there on social media, y'all don't laugh at me, but we ran the Cowboys 5K, Sarah and I did. Uh she set a PR record at the holy cow. And when I finished, my legs had was about to give out, and Rowdy, the the mascot for the Cowboys, was at the finish line. I pointed like we were gonna jump up. I think I jumped about a centimeter.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I need you to send me the video because I saw it on something out there. We need to drop it in here when we're doing it. So and then if this makes it into a real, we need to throw that in the code.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. But no, Brady, uh, the point is as as that's part of the business development that I do is help our team with some high-level relationships and acquisition strategy. So he's the financial end, operations in. He runs our company, uh CEO of the company. And uh so he's actually diving into some numbers to try to figure out what we can do to move forward with a couple of opportunities.

Why Conflict Feels Everywhere

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Well, I hate it because we're we're talking a little bit about conflict resolution today, which Brady does handle a lot more of the day-to-day uh and handles things. So I feel like he would have given some great insight on it. Yeah. Um, but I'm pretty sure you've dealt with your fair share of conflict resolution. Yeah. Um, well, I was talking the other day with one of our pastors, and I feel like we were like, we're at a season where it feels like there's just conflict out there. Whether it's with dream teamers, whether it's with staff, whether it's with staff and dream teamers. Yeah, you know, she was she was just mentioning it feels like we're in a season where everything like something's gonna go wrong. Yeah. But she also says she enjoys that season because she's like, that's where she feels like things are about to like something great's gonna happen because you're dealing with all the lows, and the only other place you can go is up. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

So healthy conflict's good. I mean, you you know, at the end of the day, people think, well, I don't want to communicate or I don't want to offend someone. There's there's no you're not trying to offend someone. Healthy conflict is actually really good to have a conversation. Yeah, you know, a lot of times when people go into conflict, they they tend to shy to the opposite spectrum and just fade into the distance and don't want to speak their mind. Um there's a way to speak your mind, let's be honest. But um, yeah, and and but we're today we're talking about how to have not only healthy conflict, but how do you have forgiveness in the front office and resolve conflict with Christ-like grace, Adam?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Well, I'm glad you do it because I I know I'm I'm a uh I can feel vindictive time. Like if somebody crosses me wrong, I'm like, you know what? And like if that's how you are, like I always have trouble with that. But I feel like that's something we're trying to walk through now. I was actually talking with someone before we started recording, and we were talking through a lot of those things where I'm in a place where I feel like whether it's with the church or anything else, if I bring up an opposition and I try to be very mindful about my presentation, sure, the verbiage I'm using, the way I'm presenting it, tone. But I feel like sometimes with me, and it actually I think it hinders me because it keeps me from saying things at times, is it's seen as uh I don't want to say I don't know if it's combative is the white word, but it's not taking the status quo. Yeah. And so I think something that I I struggle with is when I'm not a yes man. Now I will, if you need something done, I'll go get it done. Sure. But I'm also someone that's like, all right, before we take option A, have we looked at B, C, D, E, and F? You know, are these potential things that can do? Now, at the end of the day, we can present something to you and to Brady, and you guys do a great job of listening. Now, you may not go and be like, no, this we're not doing that. Yeah, yeah. They're not doing it at all, which is fine. But I feel like the good thing is you do let us present it. Yeah. But where I feel like sometimes I know for me, that's where I struggle with. I'm like, well, if I'm if I'm on the opposite side, is somebody like here comes Adam being combative? Or so that's something I feel was so this is a great episode, right? Well, how do we do that? Because I think conflict is healthy. Oh, yeah. Um, I think that's something that we've seen. We talk a lot um about a lot of the books and the things that we read, uh, and the things that

Miscommunication And Missed Expectations

SPEAKER_00 5:36

we see. And I don't know, of course, now that I'm trying to talk to you, I'm blinking, but um the books we always read, the uh from the leadership uh standpoint. One of the things and one of the excellent leadership books that we read, it talks about how you need some type of conflict. Absolutely. And it shared how every single book, every single movie you watch, think about it, there's conflict. Oh, yeah, good and bad. Good and bad in every movie. But if you just sit and you meet and you just go over things, but you don't have honest conversations like, hey, this is what's happening. Yeah, this is what I'm dealing with, this is what I feel like we're having. I think you have to be able to have those conversations because that's where growth happens if you're all just sitting around saying the same thing. I think people shy away from conflict.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

I I do, I think you're right. And and you you mentioned this, but if you're not having conflict, it's like we talk about the mountains and the valleys are coming, right? You can be on the highest of high on the mountains, you can be on the lowest of lows of valleys. Um conflict's gonna come, and it's how you handle it. So here's a question. What do you think that the number one reason that conflict happens could be from?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

People having a disagreement of things. Okay. I think they don't I think sometimes conflict comes when people don't see eye to eye. And I think it also comes from that's why for me, especially I try to be aware of all right, how am I presenting this? What is my tone? And so I think things can be taken the wrong way. And especially we're in a culture now where so much of our communication is done through this. For those of you listening, I'm talking about like my computer, like it's done through a Mac, it's done through a phone, whether that's text, Slack, email, and no matter how hard you try, you you can't read that. I I joke with Pastor Meg all the time, who's uh who's over me at the church. I feel like she's mad every time we talk. And she's not. She's and she's told me, she said, Adam, this is just how I message. Like, don't take. But my point is, is that there's a misconception. Yeah, you you can't portray tone, you know. If there's a way for me to sit in front of you and be like, ah man, I don't know, I don't really like that. Yeah. To a point where when you read it, you'd be like, I don't like that. That's it. Sounds like I'm saying, well, that's dumb. That's stupid. Like, I hate, I hate it. So you start reading into it, and you're like, well, so it's a misconception for me. I feel like that's where a lot of conflict comes from because we live in that age. Yeah. I mean, unless you're meeting, how often you're communicating through some type of device, yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

So you're you're you're right. I mean, miscommunication is a big one. Uh broken trust. People think they use the word trust sometimes to to their disadvantage versus their advantage as well. People think that you have a conflict or you know, whatever, that it's a trust thing. No, it's not. It does not always a trust problem. Uh maybe it's just like you said, personality clashes, right? Things happen, people react different ways, uh, or it's a missed expectation. You're and you said it exactly right. These devices, when you send a text, an email, a chat, whatever, no one will ever interpret what you're trying to perceive that that information to say. And I think that's the a problem with society today is go talk to people, go sit down and have a one-on-one. We hide behind, to your point, the phone and the iPad, the computer, all that stuff. Um, so what happens with the the hidden cost of unresolved

The Hidden Cost Of Avoidance

SPEAKER_01 9:04

conflict? Okay. Think about this. You have a team meeting. One person sitting over there in the corner, their 10, their tensions rising, right? Their blood pressure's boiling, so to speak. Um maybe there's conversations in the hallway, gossip going on. That doesn't help anything. Because, again, to your point, we don't know what that information on that laptop or that text actually meant. Yeah. So go ask, you know, feel f hey, could I could I get five minutes of your time? Maybe right now is not the time. Could I get five minutes of your time? Let's have a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

A candid conversation.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

What did we do 30 years ago when we got home from school and ball practice? We talked all the time. Yeah, we went outside and we played basketball. We were in the woods, we talked to people. Yeah. Played, well, we did play video games, let's be honest. But back then we didn't have the internet we could play online, right? So we had to have conversations with people. Yeah. Um, disengagement on teams. It it it's unresolved conflict, could be the hidden cost. Uh, turnover that could have been prevented. What if someone left your team because of a miscommunication problem and we didn't explain something properly? Yeah. You know, so we have to think about those things. Leaders, we we really need to avoid conflict that think they're keeping the peace because we're actually losing it. We got to be careful of that, okay? Um here's a here's a great quote. Avoiding conflict doesn't preserve peace, it just postpones it. If we if we avoid the conflict, it just prolongs the activity. And then what happens is someone gets in their mind and they go, Well, why are they not talking with me? Why are they not communicating with me? Why are they so we have to be able to do that? So here's something, again, we're talking about forgiveness today. So we had to set the stage for what conflict can and can't do specifically.

What Forgiveness Is And Isn’t

SPEAKER_01 10:48

But what is forgiveness? And more importantly, what isn't what is forgiveness not? Um, it's it's often misunderstood in the business space. Okay, here's what I mean by that. Forgiveness is not pretending it didn't happen. Because it probably did. Yeah. Okay. Excusing bad behavior, uh, removing the consequences out there, restoring the blind trust overnight. But here's what forgiveness actually is it's releasing the offense to God. Think about that. Sometimes as humans, and me included, it's hard to do that because we forget about in the business space the God moment. Our number one core value at our company is what? Honor God. Honor God, right? So we have to remember that as if we're gonna honor God, we have to give it to Him. Yeah, it's not ours anyway.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, we had we had something happen um most recently um at the church. We it was, uh and I mean, I'll be candid, it was a coworker and I that just weren't seeing eye to eye on some things. Yeah. And things didn't, in terms of just our communication, wasn't where it should be, uh, and things did it. And so we had a sit down to kind of resolve and be like, all right, how do we how do we move from here? Yeah. All right, some things were said, things were done, obviously we've got to fix these. And that was one of the things that I distinctly remember because our our pastor Jeremy, our lead pastor, sat in on it, and he talked a lot about forgiveness and biblically what those things mean and how we have to do those. One of the things he brought up. Matthew 18, yeah. Yeah, and I and I told him I was like, I told him I was like, I am so tired of the Matthew 18. Like, I get it. No one's got what's funny as I talked about the meeting before, I was like, if I hear Matthew 18 one more time, like I understand.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Maybe you need to hear Matthew 18.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Maybe I need to hear it more. But as he was talking, that was one of the things. Like, so as as the individual and I were talking through things, yeah, we each were kind of sharing our side. Well, this is why I responded this way. This is what led to these actions that got me here, whether it was this conversation or this interaction. And I remember distinctly one of the things we I was talking through, and I said, Look, I'm just trying to figure out how we move forward and figure out where there can be some forgiveness on both sides. And I and I made a statement, I was like, I'm like, if you don't want to forgive me, it's fine. And then Pastor Mere was like, No, no, no, stop, stop. We're not moving forward. That's not what and he wasn't being disrespectful. He's like, hey, this is not what we're here for. We are here for that. We're not like uh we don't want to put it out there, be like, hey, you don't have to do this. And he was what he was trying to convey is like, no, you do. Yeah, for sure. This is what has to be done to move forward. Biblically, it tells us if we're going to forgive someone, we have to do this. If we're going to work as a team, so I just remember that very vividly. Is that was one of the times that he spoke out, like, hold on, stop. I you can't no. Like, I he's like, You got it, you've got to. Like, I I he said, I understand what you're trying to do. You're trying not to put pressure, but you need to have pressure. Like, if we're going to be a team, these things had to be resolved. Team wins. So, and that's what he's talking about. Giving it was it was a God, it was a biblical practice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Forgiveness is hard because what the enemy wants to do for for you listeners, uh, if you're watching on YouTube, whatever, what the enemy wants to do is they want you to hold that bondage in your mind. They he wants you to not forgive because we know the Bible tells us by forgiving, it releases, it frees us from that. When you tell someone, I forgive you for what's happened. Now, obviously, you don't do it, maybe not do it that blunt, but we should. Um, forgiveness really opens up and frees our mind from the from the conflict resolution, right? Forgiveness is this, it's choosing not to carry the weight. And and like I said, freeing yourself so that I, as a leader, can lead clearly. It there has been times in our business space, I've had to do it with you, I've had to do it with other employees, I've had to do it with Brady. Man, I'm sorry I did it that way. Like it wasn't on purpose. Yeah, um, I'm sorry I did it that way. So it frees me to be able to lead clearly and more responsive.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

And if you don't, and when you're talking about carrying the weight, I think that's something you have to be mindful of. Because here's the thing whether you're in a leadership role or you're in an employee role, if you don't, what ends up happening, weight can continue to grow and grow. So for instance, you're upset about something, again, whether you're the leader or the employee, you're upset about something, not resolving it just continues to snowball. Oh, for sure. So think about it, something a big deal, like say something big happens and you know you you you don't resolve it, you don't you don't fix it. Well, then you kind of just say, all right, I'm gonna push forward. Like you said, it's not just pretending it didn't happen. Like, all right, whatever, we're gonna keep moving on. Well, then the next time something small, like, I mean, you could get mad over someone or like they ask you to print something, and then the next thing you know, this is like, I'm quitting this company. You didn't print this paper. Yeah. So it what I'm saying is you could have some. If you don't resolve those larger issues, what's gonna end up happening is those smaller ones that really probably shouldn't lead to anything because we're all gonna have mistakes, we're all gonna have times where we let each other down and we've got to figure out how we can help each other. But if you let it snowball, that weight continues to wear you down, and ends up happening is those small issues turn into I mean, they shouldn't be a big issue, but they turn into a big issue, and that's where you're talking about people leaving, people moving to is they start thinking, like, all right, I I don't need to be here. Like this is this is how it's gonna be. I I don't need to move on, or if you're in like a leadership role, like I this person's not doing asking. Yeah, like I I need to cut ties, and then you forget all the things they've done for that because one small mess up, it's like it feels like it erases everything they've done the way that you need to, or have been the your biggest supporter.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Absolutely, yeah. And and then and last, obviously, forgiveness is we create space for restoration when it's possible. Okay, no pun intended. Yeah, no pun intended. Um, so think about this forgiveness sets the leader free before it ever changes the offender, regardless if it's you or the other. So forgiveness sets us free. So, what does the Christ-like model of grace

Grace With Accountability Like Jesus

SPEAKER_01 16:58

look like? All right, Jesus modeled this, that grace, he modeled grace that cost. What does that mean? He forgave before the apology ever came. Think about this. You had the two thieves on the cross, one on either side. One said, Why don't you take us down from this cross? You're if you're Jesus the Christ, the Son of God, you should do that. The other one says, Father, remember me in paradise. So he forgave the person before the apology ever came. He led with truth and compassion. He also held people accountable without holding grudges. And people sometimes they say, Well, he turned over tables in the s in the you know, the synagogues, the temple or whatever. Well, I you know, uh Jesus was perfect. So there's no one can dispute that. The Bible tells us that very clearly. And even back to, you know, all the conversations that have been passed down to us for history, this is who Jesus was. And he he did turn the tables over. Was that an anger thing? I mean, I mean, only the Lord Himself could have that, right? So um, but He he held people accountable without holding grudges. Christ-like leaders don't ignore wrongs, they refuse to be controlled by the wrongs. Yeah, so if you forgive someone, you have a responsibility now to let it go. Yeah, and if you choose not to let it go, did you really forgive?

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Well, and I think you have to also be aware, too, when you think about the the holding accountable, you as the employee. And and again, leader, I say this candidly for both sides. You have to be okay without you have to be okay being held accountable without taking a grudge to it. If if I've asked you to do something and you haven't done it, or whatever the case is with that, not you don't want to get upset with that person be like, well, they tried to make me do this. Well, yes, they're holding you accountable because they know you're better than this, they can do things, or you can do things, you can do situations, you can do these projects in a better fashion. If you spend that time getting upset because someone holds you accountable, that's where it's gonna continue, I feel like, to eat away at you. So I feel like that's something you have to always be mindful of. Because that's something I I feel like I think too all the time when I'm in the middle of something, and then I get asked to do something else, you start getting frustrated, like, well, I'm trying to finish this one project. Now I gotta get asked. Well, yes, there's there's different things, it doesn't mean it has to stop. We're doing now, I need to I need to finish this project, then move on to this one. But I'm also still being held accountable to complete the things that I'm in that position to complete. That's right. And so if we take offense to being asked to do things, I think you're gonna that's where you gotta remember that you're gonna create conflict from that as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Absolutely right. Yeah.

Steps To Resolve Conflict Early

SPEAKER_01 19:40

So what are some practical steps for resolving conflict with grace? As hard as that is, what are some practical steps? Um how so in if we walk in the office tomorrow, right? Um if we address it early, don't let the small offenses grow their roots. Because to your point, people start thinking, they start going, they say, are they upset at me? Did I say something wrong?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

That's me all the time. I'm always like, I always feel like I'm a people pleaser. Are you are you the guy that's like looking around? Are they looking are they staring at me? Uh-huh. I told you, I always think all the time when I read into people's messages like they're mad.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

They're 100% mad.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And my wife tells me all the time, like, you're you're way too deep in that thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Like, don't think about it. But have the conversation sooner than later because what that does, it makes people feel comfortable. Okay. Go directly to the person. We talked about Matthew 18. We're not gonna beat a dead horse there. Not around them, not about them, but to them. Okay. Um, listen before you land the point. That is that is a b that's a hard thing for a lot of leaders, is because quote, we're the leader, we're the owner, we're the manager, they have to, they have to do what I say. Sometimes we got to listen. We got to leverage, we gotta learn.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Well, you also gotta make sure, because I know this is something that I have to always be mindful of, as you're listening to to the individual talk to you, as if somebody brings something to you, a lot of times I'm starting to think like, all right, I need to think about this, I need to respond to this. You know, so if they're bringing up several points, I may not hear points two and three because I'm thinking, like, all right, I need to figure out how. So this is why I did this for point one. So you start, you're almost part of the conversation, but you're not in the conversation because you're trying to think through how do I respond, genuinely sit and listen to the individual, listen to everything you're hearing, then respond. That's right. You don't have to drop a truth bomb or knowledge immediately, you know, listen to what's being told to you and then respond. Because if you're if you're already thinking about what you want to say, yeah, that's that's a bad day. And that that's a whole episode in itself. Like if you're if you're trying to think through like what you want to say, you end up not listening, and then you're just back to square one. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

You got to separate the person from the problem. Um, because you don't want to you you want to attack the issue, not the individual person. And forgive whether or not they ask your freedom isn't tied to their response. So very important. The healthiest teams aren't conflict free, they're conflict resolved. Forgiveness. So as we wrap this up, here's a couple of leadership takeaways to think about today. We all know conflict is inevitable, all right? But bitterness is optional. We have a choice in our mind to make if we're gonna hold a grudge or if we're not. Free it. Ask forgiveness. Let it go because it does free you before it changes anyone else. So if you forgive, if you're gonna go into that meeting to your to your point, if you're gonna go in that meeting with already having the answer before the question or conflict is asked, ask the Lord, hey, forgive me for this. Ask the person, I'm sorry this happened this way. I'd like to understand. Um, Christ-like grace is strength under control. You have to be controllable with your actions. Healthy teams are built by leaders who choose grace on purpose. So if you set the you excuse me, you set the tone of your culture every time, leader that you choose grace or employee, however that fits in your organization. So just a little bit of reflection, all right? Listeners, is there a conversation you've been avoiding? If it is, go to the person, have the conversation. It's healthy. Keep your controlled emotions. Make sure that you're, you know, you're in a good headspace. Maybe you should pray before you go into the meeting. Lord, help me to stay controlled. Yeah. Okay. Who are you still carrying an offense toward? If that is, Matthew 18. Go to the person, have a conversation. If it's your boss, go have a conversation. It's okay to have a civil conversation. Don't hide behind text, email, and you know, whatever else. And then thirdly, what would you change? What would change, excuse me, in your leadership this week if you released it? Leader, think about that. What would change this week in your leadership if you released and asked forgiveness? Because you can't lead with a clenched fist and an open hand at the same time. Think about that. Yeah.

Reflection Questions And Closing

SPEAKER_00 24:00

And I was I was literally, if anybody's watching is probably wondering why Adam's been typing the whole time, because I've had a I went completely blank. But it was Patrick Lincioni's book. Oh, yeah, for sure. That it was Death by Meaning. Now, the whole premise of the book talks more about how you should structure meetings and why it's important. That's the big overall premise. But in that book, and I would highly suggest checking this out and reading it, but he talks in that book through the, and again, it's told through a narrative story, uh, all of his books are, but they talk in the book about how important conflict is and how important it is to have those conversations. Like if you're just sitting and everybody's just kind of like, yes, yes, moving on, you're not getting anywhere. Right. Like if you think about again, any movie you watch, if you're if there's no conflict, what do you what's what are you watching? Yeah. Like that because the whole point is you're wanting to know how things fix. So just be aware. I think that's a great resource to look at. Um, talks a lot in the book about having healthy conflict, having those conversations, and being honest. Like, hey, we need to be better here. Yeah. But then also, how what do I need to do to help support your team and your department? So just I thought that was a great point. I just I completely went blank with it.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah, no, I I thought you were going, Patrick Linoni, John Max, or somebody. I wasn't sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Can't I think of his name? But um, but it's just a great resource. I thought it was a great, I thought, again, like I said, it's very much talking about how to structure your meetings, which is why it's called Death by Meeting. But an underlying topic is conflict and how healthy it is, because in the book, they're not having conflict. They're literally meeting, checking off a couple boxes, and they're done in like 15 minutes. Like, hold on. This has got to be something where we talk through things and we sit in a room where we're honest about hey, this needs to happen better. Yep. And then it talks about how to like what we've talked about on how to resolve those issues.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah, for sure. So well, listeners, just remember resolving conflict with Christ-like grace will go a long way. As always, uh, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Higher Up Podcast. We appreciate you listening, watching on YouTube. Uh, you can catch us on any social platform out there. And as always, go out and choose to live a higher up life. We'll see you next time.