{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.64,"endTime":4.16,"body":"Welcome to the Solar Coaster, a podcast about the ups and"},{"startTime":4.16,"endTime":7.96,"body":"downs of the Australian solar industry, brought to you by the technical team"},{"startTime":7.96,"endTime":11.44,"body":"at Supply Partners with host Wade Allen and technical"},{"startTime":11.44,"endTime":15.08,"body":"guru Andrew Thomson. Okay. Welcome to the"},{"startTime":15.08,"endTime":18.88,"body":"Solar Coaster podcast brought to you by Supply Partners"},{"startTime":18.96,"endTime":22.76,"body":"Australia's technical distributor. And we not only bring you some"},{"startTime":22.76,"endTime":26.0,"body":"of your favorite high quality products, but also"},{"startTime":26.08,"endTime":29.92,"body":"technical and sales training. I am your host,"},{"startTime":29.92,"endTime":33.48,"body":"Wade Allen and not with me today, as always,"},{"startTime":34.12,"endTime":37.4,"body":"my left hand man, my safety blanket."},{"startTime":37.56,"endTime":41.4,"body":"Andrew Thomson AT is under the weather today and"},{"startTime":41.4,"endTime":45.08,"body":"he has left me a little vulnerable and exposed. And"},{"startTime":45.08,"endTime":48.8,"body":"I keep look, I'm going to keep looking here at his chair and he's not"},{"startTime":48.8,"endTime":52.08,"body":"going to be there. And cardboard cut out. Yeah, it's going to be like a"},{"startTime":52.08,"endTime":55.59,"body":"phantom limb. But not to worry. In my"},{"startTime":55.59,"endTime":59.27,"body":"younger years of theater, I was quite comfortable hogging the stage."},{"startTime":59.27,"endTime":62.91,"body":"So this will just be like an old comfortable pair of shoes, even though my"},{"startTime":62.91,"endTime":66.71,"body":"big toe is sticking out. Four weeks ago we had Aaron"},{"startTime":66.71,"endTime":70.15,"body":"Jenkins from EcoVantage here in the studio to discuss the"},{"startTime":70.15,"endTime":73.27,"body":"pending federal battery rebate where"},{"startTime":74.31,"endTime":77.75,"body":"we had a chat and there were still a few questions and"},{"startTime":77.91,"endTime":81.59,"body":"concerns. There was lines still to be drawn in the"},{"startTime":81.59,"endTime":85.19,"body":"sand. And yeah, so we thought, hey, let's get"},{"startTime":85.19,"endTime":88.59,"body":"Aaron back in here now that we're a few weeks in and discuss"},{"startTime":89.07,"endTime":92.75,"body":"where we're at and go over those concerns that we had"},{"startTime":92.75,"endTime":96.27,"body":"before and bring up any ones that are that have come up since then."},{"startTime":96.27,"endTime":100.03,"body":"So, yeah, Aaron, thanks for making the journey back down the M1 this morning. I"},{"startTime":100.03,"endTime":103.75,"body":"appreciate it. So, yeah. You busy at"},{"startTime":103.75,"endTime":107.12,"body":"all? Got something to do? Yeah, yeah, a few things going on. A few things"},{"startTime":107.12,"endTime":110.92,"body":"going on in the industry. So yeah, let's just start out"},{"startTime":110.92,"endTime":114.64,"body":"with those numbers again. It was 2.3 billion that had been"},{"startTime":114.64,"endTime":118.44,"body":"allocated to this rebate. 38 bucks an"},{"startTime":118.44,"endTime":121.88,"body":"STC ish gave us around 60 million"},{"startTime":122.12,"endTime":125.36,"body":"STCs at 9.3 was we were thinking about"},{"startTime":125.36,"endTime":129.08,"body":"6.5 GWh and we were actually discussing last"},{"startTime":129.08,"endTime":132.508,"body":"time and average system size. If it's around 20,"},{"startTime":132.672,"endTime":136.49,"body":"25 kilowatt hours should give us about two years or"},{"startTime":136.49,"endTime":139.93,"body":"so. And then we didn't know what was going to happen with the"},{"startTime":139.93,"endTime":143.49,"body":"STCs. We still don't know what's going to happen after they run out, do we?"},{"startTime":143.49,"endTime":147.25,"body":"Yeah, no, that's still very much speculation. Although interesting, the wording got changed. It's"},{"startTime":147.25,"endTime":150.93,"body":"no longer the government buying the STCs created from batteries. It's the"},{"startTime":150.93,"endTime":154.53,"body":"equivalent amount as they need to. So, okay,"},{"startTime":154.93,"endTime":158.37,"body":"so lots of little changes happening in wording and policy and etc. And"},{"startTime":158.37,"endTime":162.15,"body":"announcements industry is changing for the better. But it'll be really interesting to see where"},{"startTime":162.15,"endTime":165.59,"body":"we are in two years or even one year. Yeah, you really gotta look at"},{"startTime":165.59,"endTime":169.35,"body":"the fine print because they can put a comma in there and it changes"},{"startTime":169.35,"endTime":173.07,"body":"everything. Absolutely. Put a different emphasis on a different syllable and"},{"startTime":173.23,"endTime":176.55,"body":"you're up shit creek. So where are we at? Two weeks in, how many"},{"startTime":176.55,"endTime":179.15,"body":"STCs have been traded? About"},{"startTime":179.15,"endTime":182.87,"body":"750,000 have been created in the registry."},{"startTime":182.87,"endTime":186.35,"body":"We'll take that back. 750,000 are in the registry either pending audit,"},{"startTime":186.93,"endTime":190.61,"body":"pending payment, or have been created, traded and bought. So"},{"startTime":190.61,"endTime":194.29,"body":"about 750000 in the rec registry that you can assume"},{"startTime":194.29,"endTime":197.85,"body":"are likely to occur. And that's 10 days in, so about"},{"startTime":197.85,"endTime":201.57,"body":"75000 a day. It's been busy. Yeah, no doubt."},{"startTime":201.97,"endTime":205.01,"body":"So what's that about 80 megawatt hour"},{"startTime":205.41,"endTime":209.13,"body":"divided by 10ish? 9.3-ish. Yeah, just under. Yeah. Okay, well"},{"startTime":209.13,"endTime":212.73,"body":"it's moving. That's pretty good. It's a little low I thought. But"},{"startTime":212.73,"endTime":216.36,"body":"anyways, is there anything that's holding up that approval status?"},{"startTime":217.24,"endTime":220.84,"body":"Well, we said last time we were worried about the CER's ability to process"},{"startTime":220.84,"endTime":224.52,"body":"through it. So if you look of that 750k there's been"},{"startTime":224.6,"endTime":228.32,"body":"roughly 137 or so that have gone through the clearinghouse,"},{"startTime":228.32,"endTime":231.32,"body":"so bought by the government and there's about another"},{"startTime":231.32,"endTime":234.28,"body":"25,000 or so that are sitting there registered."},{"startTime":235.0,"endTime":238.2,"body":"So back of the pub maths, that's what 20ish percent"},{"startTime":238.6,"endTime":242.31,"body":"have been come out the other end of the process. So 80% still in that"},{"startTime":242.31,"endTime":246.15,"body":"processing stage. So depends if your glass"},{"startTime":246.15,"endTime":249.35,"body":"half full or half empty. In 10 days they've gone through 20%. That's great. Or"},{"startTime":249.35,"endTime":252.79,"body":"in 10 days 20%. What happens when it gets exponentially"},{"startTime":252.79,"endTime":256.59,"body":"bigger? We don't know how many of"},{"startTime":256.59,"endTime":260.43,"body":"those 750,000 that have been put in are just battery,"},{"startTime":260.43,"endTime":264.27,"body":"do we like we don't know if there's solar with it. Not from"},{"startTime":264.27,"endTime":266.83,"body":"the REC registry data, no. Yeah, it just says."},{"startTime":268.79,"endTime":272.63,"body":"Yeah, yeah and so I, I looked at that."},{"startTime":272.63,"endTime":276.15,"body":"750 000. And of that the actual number of"},{"startTime":276.15,"endTime":279.75,"body":"entries was 4800. Just a bit more than 4800."},{"startTime":280.63,"endTime":284.23,"body":"So that's about 16.8 kilowatt hours"},{"startTime":284.47,"endTime":288.23,"body":"per system. And last time we were talking 20, 25. That's."},{"startTime":288.87,"endTime":292.71,"body":"Why do you think that's so low? Well if you look at, they're mainly residential"},{"startTime":292.71,"endTime":296.55,"body":"at this point you have to assume. Right, yeah. So. So commercial stcs from"},{"startTime":296.55,"endTime":300.35,"body":"our end, they're only just starting to occur now. Okay, so you got longer"},{"startTime":300.35,"endTime":304.03,"body":"sales cycle, EPC companies that are deploying that, they've got a"},{"startTime":304.03,"endTime":307.83,"body":"longer pipeline, they do jobs that take four weeks to deploy, not a"},{"startTime":307.83,"endTime":311.63,"body":"day. Gotcha. So you'd argue that if we have this conversation,"},{"startTime":311.63,"endTime":315.47,"body":"we compare the notes in another month that that size probably going to go up."},{"startTime":315.79,"endTime":319.59,"body":"And do we have any visibility of which battery brands are winning the"},{"startTime":319.59,"endTime":323.37,"body":"race? Currently not from our registry. There are some clever"},{"startTime":323.37,"endTime":326.89,"body":"people that have data analytics that run that, but not me. Yeah,"},{"startTime":326.97,"endTime":330.53,"body":"I'm wondering, I know from our major battery"},{"startTime":330.53,"endTime":334.21,"body":"lines, like I did the math from last July to this July"},{"startTime":334.21,"endTime":337.81,"body":"of what we've already sent out the door and what's to go at the door"},{"startTime":337.81,"endTime":341.29,"body":"and we're at about a 4x. So yeah, 400"},{"startTime":341.45,"endTime":345.25,"body":"increase in battery sales. Yeah, that's huge. I mean proof"},{"startTime":345.25,"endTime":347.94,"body":"in the pudding that the market needed it. But"},{"startTime":349.3,"endTime":352.58,"body":"with that much speed, supply chains, pipelines."},{"startTime":353.54,"endTime":357.26,"body":"We spoke last time how you can't do bulk upload and everything's manual from our"},{"startTime":357.26,"endTime":361.1,"body":"end, that's huge. Like you're talking about a four times multiplier in the"},{"startTime":361.1,"endTime":364.94,"body":"industry with a total new program and everything has to be done manually still."},{"startTime":364.94,"endTime":368.58,"body":"Like we're still seeing software updates like even two days ago, changes to the"},{"startTime":368.58,"endTime":372.26,"body":"system to allow this and that was wrong and just little bits and pieces moving."},{"startTime":372.98,"endTime":375.78,"body":"There's a lot of work going on. Of the"},{"startTime":377.14,"endTime":380.38,"body":"755,000 STCs that have already been"},{"startTime":380.38,"endTime":384.14,"body":"registered, do you have visibility over any"},{"startTime":384.14,"endTime":387.94,"body":"that have been knocked back? Because I know there's been some issues. Yeah."},{"startTime":387.94,"endTime":391.7,"body":"So let's go a little glass half empty rather than half full like I was"},{"startTime":391.7,"endTime":395.06,"body":"saying before. Thank you. You go 750,000 of them."},{"startTime":395.46,"endTime":399.3,"body":"Like I said, there's 137 that have been bought, another 25000"},{"startTime":400.17,"endTime":403.106,"body":"registered. So let's call that say 150,"},{"startTime":403.314,"endTime":406.33,"body":"160,000. There's"},{"startTime":407.05,"endTime":410.57,"body":"circa 50,000 that have been failed. So"},{"startTime":410.89,"endTime":414.57,"body":"you're looking 20 something percent failure rate of those that have been"},{"startTime":414.57,"endTime":418.13,"body":"audited and gone through. So that's a pretty decent"},{"startTime":418.13,"endTime":421.89,"body":"risk, which isn't surprising if you look at what people"},{"startTime":421.89,"endTime":425.57,"body":"were announcing and running with perhaps out of excitement in the early days"},{"startTime":425.57,"endTime":429.33,"body":"before July, before the rules were clear as to what was acceptable"},{"startTime":429.33,"endTime":431.45,"body":"for partial commissioning, et cetera. So"},{"startTime":432.95,"endTime":436.67,"body":"that's what, 50,000 STC, that's $2 million that have been taken out the"},{"startTime":436.67,"endTime":440.35,"body":"industry with failed claims. It'd"},{"startTime":440.35,"endTime":443.51,"body":"hurt if it was your pocket. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. So there's a bit of"},{"startTime":443.51,"endTime":446.99,"body":"risk in there with STCs. Now is that auditing just from a"},{"startTime":446.99,"endTime":450.71,"body":"paperwork perspective, probably because I don't. Is there any boots on the ground yet?"},{"startTime":450.95,"endTime":454.63,"body":"Not that we've heard. And it's not something that we can filter like in the"},{"startTime":454.63,"endTime":457.68,"body":"rec registry area through our own account, which has a bit more detail that we"},{"startTime":457.68,"endTime":461.48,"body":"can see. They field audited desktop audits. Just audited at"},{"startTime":461.48,"endTime":465.08,"body":"this point, you'd have to argue 50,000"},{"startTime":465.64,"endTime":469.36,"body":"stcs. That's quite a lot of installs. They're not all"},{"startTime":469.36,"endTime":473.08,"body":"boots on the ground that waves likely to start up soon though."},{"startTime":473.8,"endTime":477.64,"body":"Yeah, it's. It's unfortunate, to be honest. Like, I have some"},{"startTime":477.72,"endTime":480.44,"body":"good mates out there that have solar companies that have gotten"},{"startTime":481.64,"endTime":484.88,"body":"kickback on that whole software lockout thing that SIG did."},{"startTime":484.88,"endTime":487.95,"body":"Unfortunately, it's unfortunate and it's. To be honest, it's kind of shit."},{"startTime":489.31,"endTime":493.03,"body":"It's what happens when you announce this is coming and we'll get to"},{"startTime":493.03,"endTime":496.43,"body":"the rules by the launch date, but it's eligible backdated, like that's always a high"},{"startTime":496.43,"endTime":499.67,"body":"risk approach. It's a good way of trying not to stop an industry in its"},{"startTime":499.67,"endTime":503.51,"body":"tracks, but you gotta be really careful. And this is"},{"startTime":503.51,"endTime":507.15,"body":"a. For like certificate creators like us, this is a pretty high risk period,"},{"startTime":507.31,"endTime":510.71,"body":"especially on backdated claims. If you don't triple check that sucker and make sure there's"},{"startTime":510.71,"endTime":514.04,"body":"nothing that's gonna sting you, you end up in the conversation of going, well,"},{"startTime":514.12,"endTime":517.68,"body":"who's not getting paid or who's paying us back and it's not what you need"},{"startTime":517.68,"endTime":520.8,"body":"as a business. Yeah, then there's. There is"},{"startTime":520.8,"endTime":524.44,"body":"definitely risk on you STC traders. Like I"},{"startTime":524.44,"endTime":527.88,"body":"saw one trader offering next day"},{"startTime":527.96,"endTime":531.76,"body":"stcs. One day STCs for a reduced STC cost."},{"startTime":531.76,"endTime":535.4,"body":"But still, if it's taken days, if not weeks"},{"startTime":535.48,"endTime":539.27,"body":"to get these things through, like you're saying 20% have been approved, that's a"},{"startTime":539.27,"endTime":542.31,"body":"huge risk. Especially if 20. What did you say?"},{"startTime":542.79,"endTime":546.47,"body":"20% of the 20% of him failed? Yeah, that's a big risk."},{"startTime":546.55,"endTime":550.11,"body":"Yeah. So you guys, how long are you taking right now, do you"},{"startTime":550.11,"endTime":553.43,"body":"reckon? A couple days, depending on the claim and the agent. So"},{"startTime":553.67,"endTime":556.67,"body":"once people get on the merry go round, it's all right and they know the"},{"startTime":556.67,"endTime":559.75,"body":"rules. But there's so many new entrants to the market as well at this point."},{"startTime":559.99,"endTime":563.35,"body":"Like the backlog of people that want to start doing this, which is what everyone's"},{"startTime":563.35,"endTime":566.79,"body":"afraid of, it's up there. Or guys who used to do a battery every now"},{"startTime":566.79,"endTime":570.51,"body":"and then and now they're doing them every day. There's a lot of complexities that"},{"startTime":570.51,"endTime":573.95,"body":"come with that. I mean, you'd see that I imagine in your purchasing stock, people"},{"startTime":573.95,"endTime":577.51,"body":"that used to do just your basic PV systems are now pivoting to"},{"startTime":577.51,"endTime":580.91,"body":"everything's got a battery attached. Oh, yeah. Especially like the"},{"startTime":581.23,"endTime":584.19,"body":"people that never gave you the time of day and now they're your best friend."},{"startTime":584.67,"endTime":587.87,"body":"Hey, you got any batteries? Tech support."},{"startTime":588.03,"endTime":591.83,"body":"Exactly. We also spoke about eligibility as"},{"startTime":591.83,"endTime":595.33,"body":"a risk last time and something that popped up was, which was"},{"startTime":595.65,"endTime":599.09,"body":"crazy, is that a, you know, typical"},{"startTime":599.17,"endTime":602.53,"body":"batteries out there, they, they're now stackable"},{"startTime":602.77,"endTime":606.29,"body":"and if you put, you know, four of them in a stack, that's 11 kilowatt"},{"startTime":606.29,"endTime":609.77,"body":"hours. But it's the actual stack model number"},{"startTime":609.77,"endTime":613.61,"body":"that's registered on the cec, not the individual module. And"},{"startTime":613.61,"endTime":617.01,"body":"people were going out and adding a couple modules and"},{"startTime":617.25,"endTime":620.69,"body":"not being able to claim their STCs because it's not"},{"startTime":621.11,"endTime":624.87,"body":"the module what's going on there. Completely unnecessary inverter just to be"},{"startTime":624.87,"endTime":628.71,"body":"able to get the rebate around it. Yeah, it's. That's."},{"startTime":628.71,"endTime":632.07,"body":"There's been a lot of clarifications last 10 working days, shall we say? 11 working"},{"startTime":632.07,"endTime":635.67,"body":"days, which is great. So now it's a case of is the inverter with the"},{"startTime":635.67,"endTime":639.51,"body":"end amount of storage registered with the CEC? So"},{"startTime":639.51,"endTime":643.35,"body":"that's great. Give some clarity around it. What you then start getting into though"},{"startTime":643.35,"endTime":647.08,"body":"is it might work as per the manufacturer specs, but is the final"},{"startTime":647.08,"endTime":650.92,"body":"configuration approved and there are some big brands out there where you can put in"},{"startTime":650.92,"endTime":654.68,"body":"a perfectly valid battery install, it'll work fine. As for manufacturer"},{"startTime":654.68,"endTime":658.24,"body":"specs, but they haven't got that particular combo registered with the CEC yet."},{"startTime":658.24,"endTime":661.96,"body":"Oh, really? Yeah. Bit of fun. Oh, that's interesting. So if you go"},{"startTime":661.96,"endTime":665.4,"body":"out, let's use that 11 kilowatt hour because that's a very"},{"startTime":665.4,"endTime":669.2,"body":"popular size as it was previously and let's use the 16.8 now. So if"},{"startTime":669.2,"endTime":672.85,"body":"you're adding two more modules and you get up to"},{"startTime":672.85,"endTime":676.69,"body":"that 16 point what have you. So that inverter"},{"startTime":676.69,"endTime":680.53,"body":"plus that stack has to be registered in order for you. To get"},{"startTime":680.53,"endTime":684.25,"body":"the final combination needs to be okay. And so you definitely"},{"startTime":684.25,"endTime":687.37,"body":"need to triple check that what you are"},{"startTime":687.85,"endTime":691.69,"body":"selling and what you're going to install is going to be able to be"},{"startTime":692.09,"endTime":695.69,"body":"eligible for those STCs. Otherwise you're wearing it because you're given that"},{"startTime":695.69,"endTime":698.25,"body":"upfront discount. Right to how the solar industry works."},{"startTime":700.16,"endTime":703.96,"body":"Oh, so fun. Look, it's good for the consumer, but it just means everyone"},{"startTime":703.96,"endTime":707.0,"body":"who's playing at the moment is carrying some risk. Whether they like to acknowledge it"},{"startTime":707.0,"endTime":710.84,"body":"or not, you've got risk. And what about the last"},{"startTime":710.84,"endTime":714.337,"body":"time we talked About a couple of the state schemes, the NT dropped theirs and"},{"startTime":714.338,"endTime":718.16,"body":"WA was like trying to explain Wi-Fi to my Nana."},{"startTime":718.16,"endTime":721.96,"body":"It's so complicated. Like what's going on over"},{"startTime":721.96,"endTime":725.76,"body":"in WA from Aaron. We don't"},{"startTime":725.76,"endTime":729.4,"body":"dance around in WA heaps because it's a rebate, it's not a certificate. But"},{"startTime":729.4,"endTime":732.68,"body":"they reduced it. They didn't want free batteries, just like New South Wales did. They"},{"startTime":732.68,"endTime":735.84,"body":"wound it right down. The complexity in WA seems to be around."},{"startTime":736.48,"endTime":740.16,"body":"Is it an existing battery? Are you AC coupling? Is it connected to a vpp?"},{"startTime":740.24,"endTime":743.92,"body":"What VPP can you connect to? Like you said, that"},{"startTime":743.92,"endTime":747.32,"body":"seems to be a bit of a meal for people trying to get that"},{"startTime":747.32,"endTime":751.16,"body":"rebate back. Yeah. So that brought up another thing"},{"startTime":751.16,"endTime":754.82,"body":"is AC coupling. If you're just AC coupling a"},{"startTime":754.82,"endTime":758.18,"body":"battery to an old system, whether you're in"},{"startTime":758.18,"endTime":761.86,"body":"CSIP or you are just. It's just"},{"startTime":762.26,"endTime":766.06,"body":"another system. Does that inverter and the whole system need"},{"startTime":766.06,"endTime":769.419,"body":"to be brought up to compliance? So the changes on the"},{"startTime":769.419,"endTime":772.14,"body":"CER's website now you can go onto. When you go. If you're attaching to an"},{"startTime":772.14,"endTime":774.82,"body":"existing site that already has pv,"},{"startTime":775.78,"endTime":779.34,"body":"it's a bit like the battery combo. Right. Everything needs to be CEC approved, otherwise"},{"startTime":779.34,"endTime":783.12,"body":"you've gotta start having. Potentially there's opportunity for some of those"},{"startTime":783.12,"endTime":786.08,"body":"retrofit products that have some of the controllability to step in, but"},{"startTime":786.64,"endTime":790.32,"body":"everything's gonna be vpp Controllable is the end result. So"},{"startTime":790.88,"endTime":793.76,"body":"especially for those old hybrids, I think we were talking last time, put a hybrid"},{"startTime":793.76,"endTime":797.48,"body":"in, you can always put your batteries in later, that's great. But"},{"startTime":797.48,"endTime":800.72,"body":"if that particular inverter's fallen off the CEC approved product list,"},{"startTime":801.28,"endTime":804.96,"body":"that's actually one of the tougher combos that we're seeing at the moment where people"},{"startTime":804.96,"endTime":808.17,"body":"going, it's fine, it's the battery, it's approved for it. Yeah. But it's not in"},{"startTime":808.17,"endTime":812.01,"body":"the list. Wow. And this is all about lists. Lists and declarations"},{"startTime":812.01,"endTime":815.65,"body":"is the current compliance program. What about the VPP"},{"startTime":815.65,"endTime":816.73,"body":"in New South Wales?"},{"startTime":819.77,"endTime":823.609,"body":"So the industry was done with the PDRS. It's"},{"startTime":823.609,"endTime":827.25,"body":"a tricky one to claim. Honestly, they've upped it, which is great. It's still"},{"startTime":827.25,"endTime":830.93,"body":"written, really, to be a consumer led or a retailer led"},{"startTime":830.93,"endTime":834.25,"body":"claim. When I say retail, I'm talking energy retailer, not solar"},{"startTime":834.25,"endTime":838.05,"body":"retailer. There are solar companies offering it and"},{"startTime":838.05,"endTime":841.89,"body":"facilitating it. Some are doing it well, some are really struggling with it"},{"startTime":842.13,"endTime":845.73,"body":"because ultimately, under the PDRS in New South Wales, if you're"},{"startTime":845.81,"endTime":849.45,"body":"bringing the claim in and you're facilitating all the paperwork and making the deal"},{"startTime":849.45,"endTime":852.93,"body":"happen, you're responsible for consumer satisfaction."},{"startTime":853.17,"endTime":855.97,"body":"So I don't think a lot of people have really tweaked to that just yet"},{"startTime":856.37,"endTime":860.09,"body":"that if you told Nana this is the VPP she wants"},{"startTime":860.09,"endTime":863.33,"body":"and you'll give her a rebate if she connects to this VPP off at upfront"},{"startTime":863.33,"endTime":866.53,"body":"cost, if she doesn't like that vpp, she can come knock them back to you."},{"startTime":866.8,"endTime":870.24,"body":"Yeah, right. And there's also a lot of consumer education that goes around it. So"},{"startTime":870.24,"endTime":873.76,"body":"it's, it's not moving particularly fast. There's a lot of moving"},{"startTime":873.76,"endTime":877.04,"body":"parts around it. Well, I would imagine if, if you don't understand"},{"startTime":877.44,"endTime":881.0,"body":"what it entails and all the risks associated with you, then you'd"},{"startTime":881.0,"endTime":884.76,"body":"probably just steer clear of it. Yeah, we're seeing a lot"},{"startTime":884.76,"endTime":887.96,"body":"of that. I think the key if they really want to get that up and"},{"startTime":887.96,"endTime":890.96,"body":"going is to perhaps look a little bit further south to South Australia. They've got"},{"startTime":890.96,"endTime":894.6,"body":"a VPP connection rebate under the reps program that moves a bit"},{"startTime":894.6,"endTime":898.44,"body":"smoother. There's less onerous compliance on the"},{"startTime":898.44,"endTime":902.16,"body":"consumer to prove it's about. Do you have a eligible product,"},{"startTime":902.48,"endTime":906.0,"body":"was it installed by a licensed person, is it under warranty, et cetera."},{"startTime":906.32,"endTime":909.52,"body":"And are you using one of these pre approved VPPs"},{"startTime":910.08,"endTime":913.24,"body":"not. Tell us everything from War and Peace and tell me how you did your"},{"startTime":913.24,"endTime":917.08,"body":"due diligence, which again you're talking about consumers that don't live and breathe"},{"startTime":917.08,"endTime":920.85,"body":"energy. They don't live and breathe policy in New South Wales. That can"},{"startTime":920.85,"endTime":924.49,"body":"be quite challenging. It's good premise orchestration is what the"},{"startTime":924.49,"endTime":928.25,"body":"grid needs. Encouraging that sound reasoning. Yeah, just"},{"startTime":928.49,"endTime":931.61,"body":"I guess a bit like best one challenging on the compliance front."},{"startTime":932.57,"endTime":936.29,"body":"And so let's just talk about VPP because there was some"},{"startTime":936.29,"endTime":940.13,"body":"clarity surrounding off grid as well. Yeah, which is great because"},{"startTime":940.13,"endTime":943.77,"body":"I love my off grid and yeah there was"},{"startTime":943.77,"endTime":947.41,"body":"previous things saying, you know, you had to prove that you"},{"startTime":947.41,"endTime":950.01,"body":"were. If you were outside of a kilometer, you had to prove that it was"},{"startTime":950.01,"endTime":953.11,"body":"going to be more than X to connect to the grid and"},{"startTime":953.75,"endTime":957.51,"body":"vpp. It had to be vpp, which made no sense. But if it was VPP"},{"startTime":957.75,"endTime":961.59,"body":"eligible now. Right? Yeah. Or capable. Not eligible."},{"startTime":961.67,"endTime":965.35,"body":"Capable. If you're within a kilometer, it just has to be capable"},{"startTime":965.35,"endTime":969.11,"body":"so that in the future if you connect to the grid. Yeah, well"},{"startTime":969.11,"endTime":972.11,"body":"basically that's what it means is if you're within a kilometer, make sure you're putting"},{"startTime":972.11,"endTime":975.91,"body":"in someone, something, sorry, not someone that can be connected to a vpp."},{"startTime":975.91,"endTime":979.71,"body":"And if you're over a kilometer, do your thing. So it's become much simpler"},{"startTime":979.71,"endTime":983.55,"body":"because previously getting written notice that it was going to cost a certain amount or"},{"startTime":983.55,"endTime":987.35,"body":"there was the following complexities required to connect that off grid"},{"startTime":987.35,"endTime":991.03,"body":"to the grid. It was just again, we're talking about overly"},{"startTime":991.03,"endTime":994.87,"body":"onerous compliance. That doesn't really benefit the consumer. So that's"},{"startTime":994.87,"endTime":997.03,"body":"a really good improvement. But that's what I mean by when you see lots of"},{"startTime":997.03,"endTime":1000.39,"body":"changes happening over the last couple of weeks, it's just the goalpost is kind of"},{"startTime":1000.39,"endTime":1003.43,"body":"there. You can make it out roughly, you know, it's two poles, but how wide"},{"startTime":1003.43,"endTime":1005.95,"body":"they are and how far away they are, you can't quite get it. And they're"},{"startTime":1005.95,"endTime":1009.77,"body":"slowly getting clearer and better shaped. Yeah. And there's, you know, products"},{"startTime":1009.77,"endTime":1013.33,"body":"out there like Selectronic that brought on the Mondo UBI"},{"startTime":1013.57,"endTime":1017.33,"body":"for backstop in Victoria, but now that actually makes them VPP"},{"startTime":1017.49,"endTime":1021.21,"body":"capable. Correct. So at least you"},{"startTime":1021.21,"endTime":1024.77,"body":"can put that in if you need to and you're still capable. So that's great."},{"startTime":1025.01,"endTime":1028.73,"body":"I'm, I'm excited for the off grid market with this battery"},{"startTime":1028.73,"endTime":1032.57,"body":"rebate. Some of the numbers I do just make it so much easier for"},{"startTime":1032.57,"endTime":1035.889,"body":"the consumer to put in. Always it's always the"},{"startTime":1035.889,"endTime":1039.529,"body":"battery that takes the hit. Because"},{"startTime":1039.529,"endTime":1042.929,"body":"everyone's got a budget, right. They're like, oh, I got 50 grand to put in"},{"startTime":1042.929,"endTime":1046.329,"body":"this off grid system and you give them a,"},{"startTime":1046.569,"endTime":1050.409,"body":"you do the load profile and you give them the solution and it's"},{"startTime":1050.409,"endTime":1054.169,"body":"70 or 150. And"},{"startTime":1054.169,"endTime":1057.969,"body":"it's always the battery that takes the hit because it's the expensive part."},{"startTime":1057.969,"endTime":1061.289,"body":"And it's like, well, shit, I guess I'll just listen to the generator for three"},{"startTime":1061.289,"endTime":1064.729,"body":"hours a night. It's also, it gives you stability in that off grid scenario though."},{"startTime":1065.13,"endTime":1068.77,"body":"So. Yeah, so now it's like you get that 17 and a half"},{"startTime":1068.77,"endTime":1072.61,"body":"or 18, whatever the rebate is going to be and"},{"startTime":1072.61,"endTime":1076.45,"body":"you actually get a system that's fit for purpose, which is awesome. That's so"},{"startTime":1076.45,"endTime":1079.97,"body":"great. Yeah. And it's well written because otherwise really you start looking at it going,"},{"startTime":1079.97,"endTime":1083.77,"body":"well, how can you actually explain that in the realms of just like pub maths?"},{"startTime":1083.77,"endTime":1087.61,"body":"How's it fair? So it's good to see that change. And that I think"},{"startTime":1087.61,"endTime":1091.33,"body":"will also increase that 16 kilowatt hour number significantly. We start"},{"startTime":1091.33,"endTime":1094.53,"body":"seeing those going, we talk about commercial pipeline, but correct. Wait till we see off"},{"startTime":1094.53,"endTime":1098.15,"body":"grid numbers hitting. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well 50 kilowatt hours is"},{"startTime":1098.47,"endTime":1101.75,"body":"average. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I lived off grid, that's"},{"startTime":1101.99,"endTime":1105.51,"body":"exactly what I'd be putting in. Even if 40 was good, there'll be. Plenty of"},{"startTime":1105.51,"endTime":1109.31,"body":"70, 80 kilowatt hour. Claims maxing out that 50 kilowatt hour SDC ratio."},{"startTime":1109.31,"endTime":1112.55,"body":"I reckon. Yeah, yeah. No, that's what I'm sort of seeing as well."},{"startTime":1112.87,"endTime":1116.39,"body":"But yeah, touching back on small commercial,"},{"startTime":1117.91,"endTime":1121.59,"body":"that'll be another one that's easily a minimum of"},{"startTime":1121.59,"endTime":1125.27,"body":"50. If not reaching that hundred and then who knows, maybe going"},{"startTime":1125.27,"endTime":1128.97,"body":"back later and adding more. But, but like you"},{"startTime":1128.97,"endTime":1132.73,"body":"said earlier, EPCs and people who focus on commercial,"},{"startTime":1132.73,"endTime":1136.21,"body":"they've got pipelines, they've got a longer sales cycle."},{"startTime":1136.85,"endTime":1140.29,"body":"These projects take weeks, not days. So"},{"startTime":1141.01,"endTime":1144.69,"body":"yeah. The reason that that 16.8 kilowatt hour average"},{"startTime":1144.69,"endTime":1148.41,"body":"right now is so low is probably due to the fact that the off grid"},{"startTime":1148.41,"endTime":1152.13,"body":"and small commercial haven't really kicked in yet. Yeah. I mean from"},{"startTime":1152.13,"endTime":1155.97,"body":"our visibility it's largely resi at this point. Yeah. So. And"},{"startTime":1155.97,"endTime":1159.77,"body":"that's what you'd expect to see. Yeah. I've been doing quite"},{"startTime":1159.77,"endTime":1163.45,"body":"a few feasibility models of small commercial though in"},{"startTime":1163.45,"endTime":1167.25,"body":"just adding a 50 or 100 kilowatt hour back"},{"startTime":1167.25,"endTime":1171.09,"body":"on the break, even in the ROI is great. Like it's,"},{"startTime":1171.25,"endTime":1174.93,"body":"it's gonna, it's gonna be crazy demand saving. Like it's. You've"},{"startTime":1174.93,"endTime":1178.69,"body":"got so much more levers, you can pull in a small commercial battery"},{"startTime":1178.69,"endTime":1182.28,"body":"than mom and dad's house. Yeah. And there's going to be"},{"startTime":1182.28,"endTime":1184.68,"body":"some. I know Amber is"},{"startTime":1185.96,"endTime":1189.8,"body":"beta testing small commercial VPP right now as well."},{"startTime":1190.84,"endTime":1194.04,"body":"They're very small. Like I think it was 20 megawatt hour"},{"startTime":1194.12,"endTime":1197.72,"body":"annual users, which is a small business. But"},{"startTime":1197.96,"endTime":1201.28,"body":"when that works it'll, you know, if you can start offering"},{"startTime":1201.28,"endTime":1205.08,"body":"VPP for businesses that operate"},{"startTime":1205.08,"endTime":1208.62,"body":"nine to five, that'll. Yeah. You don't want. Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":1208.62,"endTime":1212.18,"body":"There's a risk associated with anybody that is, you know, in those"},{"startTime":1212.18,"endTime":1215.94,"body":"peak times, got to make sure you got battery. I'm just saying that's actually"},{"startTime":1215.94,"endTime":1219.02,"body":"cool. If you're a 9 to 5 business or you know, 8 to 6 business,"},{"startTime":1219.5,"endTime":1222.62,"body":"you just let your battery do its thing overnight. You could have a seriously good"},{"startTime":1222.62,"endTime":1225.98,"body":"roi. Absolutely. Oh man. It takes years off."},{"startTime":1226.3,"endTime":1230.02,"body":"Yeah, it's great. We talked last"},{"startTime":1230.02,"endTime":1233.27,"body":"time about what are some of the things"},{"startTime":1233.51,"endTime":1237.23,"body":"that installers should be doing now. And I just"},{"startTime":1237.23,"endTime":1240.79,"body":"wanted to touch on it again because it was"},{"startTime":1241.19,"endTime":1243.99,"body":"surrounding forecasting and"},{"startTime":1244.55,"endTime":1248.31,"body":"securing your stock. Like we've, we've now seen it. We're two weeks"},{"startTime":1248.31,"endTime":1252.11,"body":"in and we're waiting for more batteries to show up just because of all the"},{"startTime":1252.11,"endTime":1255.91,"body":"pre sales that have taken place. I would imagine"},{"startTime":1256.47,"endTime":1259.79,"body":"everyone's been selling into this now for a few weeks. If not"},{"startTime":1259.79,"endTime":1263.51,"body":"multiple, like probably seven, eight weeks. You should be able to"},{"startTime":1263.51,"endTime":1267.19,"body":"determine what Your sales cycle is going to be. Yeah,"},{"startTime":1267.19,"endTime":1270.59,"body":"I mean we kind of saw that limbo period"},{"startTime":1270.75,"endTime":1274.23,"body":"before it kicked in properly and then we saw the big boom the final week"},{"startTime":1274.23,"endTime":1277.99,"body":"or two before and now we're in it. You'd think in"},{"startTime":1277.99,"endTime":1281.11,"body":"a couple of weeks time you'll know what it's going to look like. You've got"},{"startTime":1281.11,"endTime":1284.95,"body":"the crazy first quarter where everyone's going, gimme, gimme, gimme. Then we're going to"},{"startTime":1284.95,"endTime":1288.69,"body":"have the crazy second quarter because summer and December, it's such a great, not"},{"startTime":1288.69,"endTime":1292.29,"body":"stressful period at all. And now we've got two reasons why the"},{"startTime":1292.29,"endTime":1295.49,"body":"STCs are going to drop for a bunch of claims. So that's going to go"},{"startTime":1295.49,"endTime":1298.97,"body":"bonkers. But you'd have to assume that business is going to get a bit of"},{"startTime":1298.97,"endTime":1302.65,"body":"a feel, if not for market opportunity, just for their ability to deliver. Like"},{"startTime":1302.81,"endTime":1306.33,"body":"find an installer that's bored right now with battery accreditation. Right."},{"startTime":1306.65,"endTime":1310.45,"body":"There isn't one. So you're going to have an idea of either what you can"},{"startTime":1310.45,"endTime":1312.93,"body":"sell or what you can install. One of those two things is going to be"},{"startTime":1312.93,"endTime":1316.74,"body":"your limit. So you'd assume people can start to get a bit"},{"startTime":1316.74,"endTime":1319.86,"body":"of a fuel forecast in the coming. I'd say probably a month or two maybe"},{"startTime":1319.86,"endTime":1323.66,"body":"as opposed to now. Yeah, it's been 10 days. But yeah, I'm"},{"startTime":1323.66,"endTime":1327.38,"body":"going to continue to harp on it like really, really look at your numbers, look"},{"startTime":1327.38,"endTime":1330.98,"body":"at your sales, look at what's coming down the pipe and get your forecast"},{"startTime":1330.98,"endTime":1334.58,"body":"into your. Into your supply partner. Not supply partners. Well,"},{"startTime":1334.58,"endTime":1338.38,"body":"supply partners. But your name. Yeah, yeah, I just thought"},{"startTime":1338.38,"endTime":1342.22,"body":"of that. But you got to get them in because"},{"startTime":1342.22,"endTime":1346.06,"body":"we are forecasting some manufacturers now."},{"startTime":1346.06,"endTime":1349.34,"body":"If I put a PO in today, it's for November. Yeah. Wow."},{"startTime":1349.66,"endTime":1352.46,"body":"So you really have to work with your"},{"startTime":1353.02,"endTime":1356.74,"body":"distribution partner in order to secure that stock. Otherwise"},{"startTime":1356.74,"endTime":1360.38,"body":"you're going to be up shit creek for sure. And especially"},{"startTime":1360.46,"endTime":1363.9,"body":"what you said come November, December, when we've got a double whammy,"},{"startTime":1363.9,"endTime":1367.75,"body":"STC drop. Man, I feel sorry for everyone out there who's going to"},{"startTime":1367.75,"endTime":1371.59,"body":"be installing batteries on Boxing Day this year. Yeah, there'll be a few."},{"startTime":1371.67,"endTime":1375.43,"body":"Yeah, yeah. It'll be worse than any other year for sure. Like you will"},{"startTime":1375.43,"endTime":1378.91,"body":"be working over the holidays. I'm just hoping we have bulk"},{"startTime":1378.91,"endTime":1382.67,"body":"uploads by then. So we might not have. But I'm not"},{"startTime":1382.67,"endTime":1384.91,"body":"entirely sure if I put a bet on that. Yeah, you might have to come"},{"startTime":1384.91,"endTime":1388.39,"body":"in on the 30th and we do that. For LGCs anyway, so may as well."},{"startTime":1388.47,"endTime":1392.15,"body":"Yeah. Is there anything else that we should be"},{"startTime":1392.78,"endTime":1396.3,"body":"concerned about or, or talking about before we wrap up."},{"startTime":1396.86,"endTime":1399.86,"body":"Look, I think it's probably the same thing I said last time, Remember the last"},{"startTime":1399.86,"endTime":1403.22,"body":"time we said, watch this space, stay tuned. There's lots of questions that are coming"},{"startTime":1403.22,"endTime":1405.74,"body":"up that don't have answers yet and we just need to stay abreast of it."},{"startTime":1405.74,"endTime":1408.779,"body":"We're talking about off grid, we're talking about retrofitting AC coupling."},{"startTime":1409.34,"endTime":1412.58,"body":"There's still some of those floating around there. So just be aware of what you're"},{"startTime":1412.58,"endTime":1416.26,"body":"selling. Is it configured? What's changing? What's an issue coming"},{"startTime":1416.26,"endTime":1419.63,"body":"up? Like you said before, if you're in the commercial space saying, oh, this is"},{"startTime":1419.63,"endTime":1422.51,"body":"going to be great because you're used to selling smaller installs and now you go"},{"startTime":1422.51,"endTime":1425.87,"body":"on the next rank up, see, is there a VPP that it can be connected"},{"startTime":1425.87,"endTime":1429.39,"body":"to? Are you selling kit that is VPP capable? Because not all"},{"startTime":1429.39,"endTime":1433.07,"body":"commercial products are. Yeah. So just the industry"},{"startTime":1433.07,"endTime":1436.83,"body":"is going through a very big upskilling. We saw an extreme case of that"},{"startTime":1436.83,"endTime":1440.23,"body":"in New South Wales the end of last year with, oh, you know, the regs"},{"startTime":1440.23,"endTime":1443.47,"body":"are that strict, are they? Or they say this, we're going to have the same"},{"startTime":1443.47,"endTime":1447.02,"body":"thing again, especially once we start seeing, you know, large scale field audits for this"},{"startTime":1447.02,"endTime":1450.54,"body":"first wave of battery installs. So just make sure you're doing a good job, you"},{"startTime":1450.54,"endTime":1454.26,"body":"know what you're installing and you ready for it to be looked at. Yeah,"},{"startTime":1454.34,"endTime":1457.7,"body":"that's, that's the big one, right? Yeah, don't rush. Yeah,"},{"startTime":1457.78,"endTime":1461.62,"body":"there's plenty of time. Just I said last time, charge a"},{"startTime":1461.62,"endTime":1464.78,"body":"fair price for a fair quality install. Do it right, do right by the consumer."},{"startTime":1464.78,"endTime":1467.98,"body":"You're not doing them a favor by giving them a cheap install that won't pass"},{"startTime":1467.98,"endTime":1471.7,"body":"muster. Yeah, like no one wins in that. All right, man, well,"},{"startTime":1471.7,"endTime":1474.5,"body":"thank you so much for coming back in. I really appreciate it and I hope"},{"startTime":1474.5,"endTime":1477.96,"body":"everyone got something out of this. Good to see you again. Take it easy."},{"startTime":1477.96,"endTime":1478.44,"body":"Cheers."}]}