Meat reared overseas using practises that would be illegal in the UK is being sold alongside British meat to unwitting consumers.
Jacob Rees Mogg, North East Somerset Conservative MP has called for the UK to import 'hormone-injected beef' from Australia and the scrapping of import tariffs on food to open up trade. He said: "I want cheaper food. I want hormone-injected beef from Australia. I've eaten beef in Australia, it's delicious. There's nothing wrong with it."
Ben Gibbons from the National Farmers Union says trade deals are threatening the UK's farming industry by opening up the market to unfair competition and poor quality imports produced to lower environmental standards.
Fourth-generation farmer Anna Longthorpe says misleading food labels are undermining British farming and she wants the government to act.
They are calling for clear, accurate, and simple labels, specifically advocating for a prominent country of origin display.
ASDA, Tesco, Defra and the Competitions Authority declined to join us for our discussion.
We explore the idea that consumers are more likely to buy products clearly labelled as British, shedding light on the potential impact of food security on the nation's agricultural production. We scrutinize the government's approach to foreign trade deals and their impact on food security, we also discuss initiatives like 'Back British Farming Day'.
Finally, we delve into the challenge of ensuring that British products are accessible to all budget shoppers, emphasizing on pushing for policies that support sustainable farmers and supply chains. Tune in to gain insights into these pressing issues and more!
Meat reared overseas using practises that would be illegal in the UK is being sold alongside British meat to unwitting consumers.
Jacob Rees Mogg, North East Somerset Conservative MP has called for the UK to import 'hormone-injected beef' from Australia and the scrapping of import tariffs on food to open up trade. He said: "I want cheaper food. I want hormone-injected beef from Australia. I've eaten beef in Australia, it's delicious. There's nothing wrong with it."
Ben Gibbons from the National Farmers Union says trade deals are threatening the UK's farming industry by opening up the market to unfair competition and poor quality imports produced to lower environmental standards.
Fourth-generation farmer Anna Longthorpe says misleading food labels are undermining British farming and she wants the government to act.
They are calling for clear, accurate, and simple labels, specifically advocating for a prominent country of origin display.
ASDA, Tesco, Defra and the Competitions Authority declined to join us for our discussion.
We explore the idea that consumers are more likely to buy products clearly labelled as British, shedding light on the potential impact of food security on the nation's agricultural production. We scrutinize the government's approach to foreign trade deals and their impact on food security, we also discuss initiatives like 'Back British Farming Day'.
Finally, we delve into the challenge of ensuring that British products are accessible to all budget shoppers, emphasizing on pushing for policies that support sustainable farmers and supply chains. Tune in to gain insights into these pressing issues and more!
British farmers say cheap imported meat and crops produced to lower welfare and environmental standards are undermining the industry. Some farmers are accusing supermarkets of misleading customers with their labelling. I'm journalist Angela Walker, and in this podcast I talk to inspirational people and discuss under reported issues. My guests today are fourth generation farmer Anna Longthorpe and Ben Givens from the National Farmers Union. Thanks for joining me, both of you. So we're going to be talking about food labelling, cheap imports and security. Ben, we'll come to you in a few minutes because you represent 55,000 farmers across the UK, so I'm interested in hearing your views. But first I'd like to find out about your background, anna. You're a pig farmer from Yorkshire and you're from a long line of farmers, aren't you?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Yeah, so we were originally arable farmers and then mum decided to add pigs to the mix some gosh over 30 years ago now, and I sort of follow there into the pig side of things. I've been sort of heavily involved with various campaigns over the years in the pig industry sort of under Dad's wing, shall we say. But then the most recent crisis I've sort of led from the front and really had my eyes opened on all the issues and the unfairness in the supply chain and just really misleading labelling and stuff which really doesn't give British farmers a chance to even fight their own cause really.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Yes, Tell us about your main concerns about British farming Well as you've just said, there's very misleading labelling going on and the imports are coming in Don't meet the same standards that are produced us environmental standards or welfare standards and it just puts us on such an unlevel playing field. And one of the tools in our boxes is to really push ourselves and encourage consumers to back us, but it's so difficult for them to do that when there's such misleading labelling going on. They shouldn't have to be detectives and having to read the fine print on the back of the pack to establish if a product is British or not.
Angela Walker:
Yeah, let's be a bit more specific. Tell me what is it that you've seen? Because you've been campaigning, you've been trying to raise the issue of labelling for a while now. What is it about labelling on meat packaging in supermarkets? That's really making you feel upset.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Well, there's a variety of things. I mean, for one, we've got these tertiary branding like Woodside Farms, rose Dean Farms. We've got packaging that looks, you know, blue, red, white packaging. We've got some products that have actually got a union jack on, even if the product's only sort of packed here. There's a certain sugar brand, for example, that has a union jack on it and the sugar canes imported, whereas we have another sugar brand that is all British sugar and we should. You know, it's really difficult for consumers to establish how to back the British farmers when it's such misleading labelling going on.
Angela Walker:
I did contact the competitions and markets authority and they referred me to DEFRA, and DEFRA said food labels must not be misleading and that people can contact trading standards about individual cases. Do you think it's the case that you know? It's the odd one or two items slipping through the net that are being displayed, you know, under a British banner, or do you think there's something more to it than that?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
I think there's a lot more to it. When you look at in the major supermarkets not all of them, but certainly the biggest two players they'll have, you know, big signage above the shelves saying back in British farmers. There's one that says best of British on a gondola rend, then everything underneath it is literally imported fruit and veg. So, yeah, I think it's as I understand it's well, most of the time it's cheaper to import, because when we've got to ask ourselves why are these imports cheaper, we know that customers do want to back British farmers. We've been outside retailers and we've been speaking to consumers. They've said they want to back British. We've told them what to look for and they'll go inside and they'll really, yeah, really look at the packaging carefully and then come outside and say, well, there's no British in there. So, and yeah, the retailers know that consumers want to back British, so they're mislead, they're making things look British and, yeah, buying them.
Angela Walker:
You think it's a deliberate policy? That's a deliberate policy? You think I think so. Yeah, purely for profit margin. Asda I contacted Tesco and Asda. I've contacted both of them supermarkets twice. Asda came back to me and said all Asda products are clearly labeled and they asked me to send them examples, which I did, but they've not responded to that so far. Ben, is this something that you've heard from other farmers or is this? You know, that has been a bit overly sensitive. What do you think?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
I would never say that farmers are overly sensitive when we're in an extremely competitive market and it's extremely frustrating to see a lot of imported products on the shelves. But you know, from our point of view we always call for food labeling to be clear, simple, accurate and including the country of origin. That is really what we're asking for here. You know, we always think and we know that the British public want British food and they've got the confidence that it's traceable, that it's produced to a higher welfare standard. I mean to go slightly back from the labeling. You know, and as touched on it there, we are getting a lot of food that's imported. I think we're 60% self-sufficient at the moment. That can change to whatever sector you're in. But we have seen a growing push from government to do further trade deals which we potentially haven't done in the past, and that creates a whole sort of minefield there.
Angela Walker:
You're talking about trade deals with other countries who don't have the high welfare standards that we have. Is that right?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
Yeah, I think it's important to touch on as well that countries have got different standards. You know we can't always say that they're significantly lower, but there is a differing in standard which ultimately produces a different cost of production. You know we have always called on from the NFU that the government should, when they're entering these trade deals, come with a set of core production standards and that often gets very confused with food safety standards. Food safety is something that the government have widely accepted shouldn't be undermined, but it's very different to production standards and ultimately, if things are different, production standards and the cost to produce is going to be very different.
Angela Walker:
You're nodding there, Anna. Tell us about the high standards that you rear your pigs to and how you feel that could be undermined by, you know, cheap imports.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Well, I was sort of nodding along there because I had this conversation with Mark Spencer at the Great Yorkshire Show. Actually, and as I understand it, under WTO rules you can't dis, you can't base trade deals on welfare, that can't come into it. So you can't discriminate against a you know product from a different country based on welfare standards. That's yeah. That was my understanding of the conversation.
Angela Walker:
So what would you like to see? Maybe labelling that indicates the standards that each countries adhere to? Or how could we make it so that people know what they're buying? What do you want to see on the packaging?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
I just want clear country of origin labelling. I mean, I wouldn't. It was spoken about about having different sort of welfare standard labelling and stuff which I don't. It would be too messy and I think it's. Some people try and make it a bit too black and white here as well, in the indoors bad, outdoors good, and it's just not that simple. We've got we're very lucky here to have so many different production systems and you know, whereas on the continent the most of your pork will be produced indoors, you know some countries don't have any outdoor pigs whatsoever and we've always said over here the consumer is incredibly lucky to have so many different production systems, all high welfare.
Angela Walker:
But we do have, you know. We do know if we're buying free range chicken, don't we? So wouldn't people want to know if they're buying? You know outdoor reared pigs as well, do you think?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Again, it's quite I mean consumers it's quite difficult for them to understand the different production systems. We've got free range, we've got outdoor reared, we've got outdoor breads, we've got indoors, we've got different levels within those. So and you just can't be that black and white, that, like I say, you can't say outdoors good, indoors bad, because it's not that simple. I mean we were free range pig farmers but we've recently, because of various disease challenges, we've had to take some pigs inside and you know that's better for the animals welfare, because we don't want to send more pigs to an outdoor site that's got disease. Who would better off suddenly?
Angela Walker:
get indoors. So I know when we've had avian flu, the you know, the chicken farmers have to bring the chickens indoors but then they're not allowed to sell their eggs as free range. Then are they? But of course it's a welfare issue to protect the flock. So I guess that's the same when we're talking about disease. Before Brexit, I covered the issue of food security many times and some farmers told me exactly this that they were concerned about imported produce not meeting the same high standards as homegrown Ben, what is the situation like now? Is that a fear that's come into fruition?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
I think it's something that we're going to have to continue fears on. Ultimately, I think if we look at what's being done with some of the trade deals or the trade policy, I think we're going to see more meat potentially coming into the country. We've done a deal with Australia and New Zealand. We're in the new Asian Pacific trade bloc. Now we're looking to do trade deals with India, canada, us. It would be hard for me to dispute and suddenly say I don't think we're going to see imported food. We're probably going to see a variety of what's coming through, which is what's going to be different. That's where we still push through and we would ask government for these core standards.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
I know that Mark Spencer might be saying to Manit that it's not possible. We're looking to do trade deals with countries that want to trade with us. Australia and New Zealand, as a prime example, are primarily selling as products that we're actually very good at producing in this country. They wanted access to 60 million consumers. We could have gone in there and said this is the line, this is the standard that you've got to meet. It would almost lift their standards up to ours and we could be on a level playing field If we can do it with things that we outline as food safety. We've said we're not going to have chlorinated chicken and hormone-pumped beef. If we can implement those standards as safety standards that countries have to deliver to, I can't see, if you can't see, why we couldn't put through a core set of standards as well. That would make it much fairer for our own domestic production.
Angela Walker:
I know a few years ago an arable farmer was telling me how frustrating it was because he wasn't allowed to use certain pesticides and yet overseas they were. Those grains were being imported or used in products which were then imported into this country and there's, like it's not a level playing field. But if these deals have already been struck, then what can be done to help British farmers now?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
You're right, it's very hard to undo what's being signed already. What we're pushing for is a change in trade policy and something that's much more pragmatic, something that keeps an eye and understands our sensitive sectors, particularly when we're looking at lifestyle, we're looking at meat production, we're looking at sugar production very sensitive sectors where we do have high standards and high cost of production can be undermined very easily by that, and the trade policy just needs to have a much greater understanding of that, because if the competition means that we can't compete on the shelves for our product, then that production is going to start to fall and it's very hard to turn it back on.
Angela Walker:
And what do you have to say about that?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
If we can get consumers to buy British, that creates more of a demand for British product. That encourages British farmers to produce the products. And we keep hearing food security, food security banded around, but that is one way that we could really encourage British farmers. There's a really low mood in the industry at the moment. It's not just pigs, it's throughout farming, and I've never known it this way that we're feeling really undervalued. Food is just so undervalued and it's making more financial sense to plant trees and put solar panels up on your farm than grow food. And we've always been very passionate about what we do. But it's getting to the point now. Where do you draw the line and just say you've got to use your head here rather than your heart? If it's not paying, it's not paying. And if all of us decided to go that way, then we really are in trouble with our food security.
Angela Walker:
Where do you see British farming in, like you know, five, ten years, if things don't change?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
It's a difficult one. There'll be some. Yeah, I mean I'd like to think I've got a different supply chain anyway. I've got a very niche supply chain and I supply direct, so I'm a little bit more secure in what we do. But even that, with smaller avaspares and stuff falling away, the infrastructure to support smaller businesses is falling away. With the pig supply chain, with what's gone on over the last couple of years as well, that's gone very integrated. You've got lost a lot of independent producers and it doesn't seem like the retailers really care where the produce comes from and they don't seem to be looking long term about that either. As long as they can get something on the shelves, whether it's British or imported, I don't think they really care. It's whatever makes the biggest margin short term for shareholders. So unless we start thinking long term and I don't think the government's particularly good at that, are they Then I think we're in trouble.
Angela Walker:
Ben, you said people do want to buy British. What do you have to support that?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
I mean, we're always looking out for key logos and we've spoken before about some of the misleading in labelling. But some of the key logos looking for that origin label as well, looking for red tractor if it's appropriate and that's a certain product those are the key labels for the British consumer to support. I think it's important to look at the broader food security context as well. The NFU had a food summit with number 10 earlier in the year to discuss the crises really that we're in and you can see from our recent surveys, confidence in agricultural production is extremely low and they need something effectively to outline to create that sort of future and have a long-term plan, which we've always lacked recently.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
What we're calling for is our food security or self-sufficiency to be monitored, for there to be a report, an annual report that's effectively looking at what we're producing and if we're creating policies like trade or potentially on the environment side as well, but if we're just looking at trade here that are actually reducing our production levels, there needs to be a reaction to that. We can't react after 20, 30 years of being in the trade deal. We need to be monitoring these as we're signing them and the impact it's having on our domestic production and it can't be undermined. We're starting to get government talk more proactively about supporting farmers and supporting the food security. We need to see action now and some of it is on that line and to try and pivot some of our policy and look more at domestic production.
Angela Walker:
I know some of these trade deals are allowing, for example, new Zealand, I believe an in to the market now and that's going to allow them to import or export to the UK more and more meet in future. Is that right? That's how the trade deal is working. It's opening up our market more in the future.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
Yeah, it's tailored to full liberalisation over a certain amount of years and the quota will increase year on year. We always have had or the EU have. When we inherited, it was a trade deal with New Zealand for very low levels of things like lamb, and so that's what we've always had. We've actually had lamb for a very long time on our shelves. The concern is, of course, if we're leading to the end of time frame where it's full liberalisation, then we start to have unexpected amounts on the shelves, which can often cause some issues with the market as well.
Angela Walker:
So it's opening us up even more in the future, from the sounds of it. Now let me just read out this from Deffra. This is about labelling. It says food labelling rules are set out in existing food information regulations. They require a food label on pre-packed food to must show the name of the food, ingredients, the quantity, allergens, best before date and nutrition and the origin. So it's already got the origin on there. Anna, what do you want to see it to be more prominent? Is it about the actual labelling or is it? I mean, you sent me some pictures, didn't you? And they were like so you know, two packets of pork chops. And it was really difficult, unless you examined it very closely, which shoppers don't do when they're in a hurry and they're just chucking stuff in the trolley trying to get in and out. It is. It is hard to see sometimes which country that meat is from. But how could it be enforced? How could companies be made to make it clear up that? You know they already have to put the origin on there.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
It's a difficult one. I mean they could do something just well. I mean, there's obviously the red tractor, but that, yeah, that is if you're shopping in a supermarket. You know, if you're shopping in a butcher's shop, then you're buying loose meat. So it's a really difficult one and it's it's quite upsetting that we we're clearly, we're clearly just completely lost integrity when there's such misleading labelling going on. I don't see why it can't just be clear just with a union jack or something. If it's produced in the UK, would you like to see it.
Angela Walker:
You know the the country of origin, written in a certain size, or something like that.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Possibly on on the front of pack, yeah, in a certain size font, maybe in bold, I mean with. You've mentioned the allergens there, ingredients, I mean we've. I have a right going on with labelling. In my personal business, you know, I've trade trading standards. Come around and if the ingredients aren't in the correct order, you know, if one one ingredients in front of the other one, it should be the other way around. Then they come down and they make me change my labelling.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
So, yeah, maybe we just have a country, you know, country of origin, involved on the front of the pack. No misleading going on. No, you know. No, you know, if there's a load of imports in a supermarket, let's not have big branding on the top of the shelf saying supporting British growers, if it's, you know, underneath, just just some sets of standards, possibly for for retail, designed to not mislead consumers, just basically to do as you say on the tin. I mean, that's what I set my whole business on is doing as I say on the tin, and I feel like I'm, yeah, shoot myself in the foot half of the time because the people that aren't doing as they say on the tin are thriving. It just makes you question what is the point in being truthful and and having integrity.
Angela Walker:
You sound so despondent, anna, and you know it's telling me that the whole industry other farmers are really feeling demoralised at the moment, and you know where do we go from here.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Well, yeah, they are. I mean FCN, the Farm and Community Network charity. They actually run a survey and one of the main contributing factors to poor mental health in British farmers is seeing, you know, shelves flooded with imports and, yeah, just getting some integrity into into those big retailers and yeah, so I'm not saying not, you know, putting them all in under the same bracket. We've got a few that you know are very supportive and, you know, do pay farmers fairly and you know they've got really good supply chains going on, they've got good communications and they do say they do as they say on the tin.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
But then we've got, like I say, the the main two players, two or three that are incredibly misleading and, like I say, all we want is it is to make it easy for a consumer to instantly see a packet, know that it's British, stick it in the trolley. They feel good about themselves at the back in British. But at the moment, like I say, we're happy to really push ourselves. That's one of the biggest tools that we've got is to encourage consumers to to back British farmers. But it's got to be easy for the consumer to do that Do you want to come in there, ben?
Angela Walker:
what do you think? I mean, we've talked about, you know, farmers feeling demoralised. I mean, it sounds like a bit of an uphill struggle. They're trying to, you know, sell their produce and they're coming up against cheap imports that aren't clearly labelled as imports. And you know the shoppers want an easy life, don't they? I mean what? What do you think about those two aspects the the way that farmers feel that that it's not a level playing field, and the labelling?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
Well, I mean, we always say that the labelling needs to be clear and simple, and I think that's always what we're asking, you know, and it has that clear count of origin which I know sort of outlined there. But you're right, the confidence is is very low at the moment and it does, you know, when they're seeing more and more trade deals done, you know, it does start to undermine them. The confidence again is taking a hit then, which is why we're always pushing for this, for the trade policy, that that understands the sensitive sectors. And while I know that we've discussed a lot on the on the labelling, the concern is, of course, that a lot of these trade deals we've started doing sets of precedent to do more and more and, if anything, some of the problem on the shelves could actually increase as we start to have all sorts of different products from different origins on.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
I mean, we're always trying to promote British product. The consumer wants British product. It's just getting it embedded into government to to supporters, and some of it is on the food security which I outlined before. Some of it is always also, as well, taking an interest in what's happening on retail level. We've always been calling for fairness in the supply chain. There's a real concern, particularly in pigs which we've seen beforehand and eggs to a degree as well, where we have this sort of boom to bust level, when production and supply is very, very strong and then price crashes and you can't turn off and I will tell you that you can't turn off and you're then producing, if you're not careful, to below the cost of production.
Angela Walker:
Tell me about that, anna. Tell me about this. The difficulties with the supply chain. Why is it so complicated and what's going on.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Well, it's always been a very unfair supply chain with the farmer taking all of the risk Retail. So you've got three different levels. You've got retailer at the top, processor in the middle, farmer at the bottom, retailer holds holds the hammer. Basically, I sometimes liken it to a bit of a drugs gang that the guy at the top is pulling all the strings, getting the processor in the middle to do the dirty work and dictate to the farmer what they're going to be paid, how many pigs are going to take. You know farmers in the process have contracts, but so 18 months, two years ago, those contracts were just basically ripped up and contracted number of pigs weren't taken by the processes, and that that was at the same time when you saw all these these supermarket shelves flooded with with imports. It was said that because of Brexit, we didn't have enough butchers and processes to butchering, slaughter the pigs. But actually, when you look at what was on the shelves, all the photos that I sent to you was pork that had been butchered here. So clearly we had capacity to butcher it.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
It just actually happened at the time that imports were cheaper, so we were leaving British pigs on farms, and some. You know we had contingency plans. We always have to have to have contingency plans as a farmer. Processes don't have to have contingency plans, retailers don't have to have contingency plans when it comes to animal welfare. So, basically, room ran out on the farm. As Ben said, we can't switch off the tap. We've got new, new pigs being born all the time. We've got to keep those pigs moving off farm, otherwise you just end up in a bottleneck.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
And that's what happened. And, yeah, some farmers ended up culling and wasting healthy pigs, which is why, yeah, there's now a deferrer of you going on trying to sort of balance up the supply chain. But, like I said, that just demonstrates perfectly how the farmer takes all of the risk. But actually, during that time, one of the things that farmers really tried to do, we actually kicked off a campaign biting to British, encouraging consumers to back British farms, make sure they're buying British pork. But then you know we want to do something really positive because we're at risk of commercial retaliation if we expose what's going on publicly, and you know we did.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Some farmers were threatened. Some farmers were told their pigs wouldn't be taken because they'd been too gobbly. So, yeah, our positive way of trying to get through that was to encourage consumers to buy in to British, but they couldn't do it because of such dodgy labeling and, as the photo is that I showed you, you know, shells flooded with imports. The odd pack of, you know, the odd pack of British, but very difficult when it's all packaged exactly the same with the odd UK, but then everything else German, netherlands, whatever.
Angela Walker:
Yeah, they all do seem. Even though it says on the packaging you know it's German or whatever they, those products do appear to be mixed in with the British ones. So I see where you're coming from there, that's for sure. And, anna, so you're like fourth generation farmer. You know what feedback have you had from your family and what have you seen through the years when it comes to changes in farming?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Oh gosh, it's a difficult one because, I've said this latest crisis it's. This is the first one that I've really felt, to be honest, because, like I said before, I was always sort of under my dad's wing, so I might have been holding a placard, but I didn't understand the financials and you know the nitty gritty, whereas this time I felt everything. You know, we like, said we had a niche supply, we have a niche supply chain, but because where I buy my weaners from, they were let down on their contract, so I ended up with loads of extra pigs on farm as well. So, you know, we, I felt it all. I, you know, did everything within my power. You know, worked 24 seven, like all the other pig farmers did out there, creating extra space on farm and, yeah, it was a really tough time.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
But as farmers, you dig in and you do whatever you can and you, you know, you look after your animals to the best of your ability and you, you know, you put everything in and we were fortunate to get through it without Hans Cullany Cullany pigs. But it haunts me in the knowledge that some of my colleagues had to do that and I know that that will stay with them forever. So I don't know what the silver bullet is and I've been looking for it for two years. But yeah, as I keep coming back to, it's not just farming actually now we're just really lacking basic integrity in government and supply chains, you know, in not just food supply chains, in all supply chains, from what I can see, and I don't know how you legislate for that.
Angela Walker:
Do you think it's to do with? You know people buying from massive supermarkets and they're not buying from you? Know smaller butchers? Because surely if you were selling directly to a butcher and I was buying directly from a butcher, then you've got a much smaller supply chain and you'll get a fairer deal, and I know what I'm buying. Is it just because everything's like mass produced now?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Yeah, like I said before, you find the infrastructure for smaller businesses sort of falling away, the small abattoirs, the logistical network. You know, I've looked at other, you know, putting my pigs into other abattoirs, but they want, you know, you'd have to have a certain type of lorry with a certain type of rail system to pick it up and it's. You know, I'm finding myself just having to do more and more, you know, on the ground stuff, rather than running the business, shall we say, I'm just having to run myself ragged just to keep the wheels turning and firefighting a bit, and I don't know, you know it's a bit of a COVID hangover, I suppose. And the pig crisis, and you know the, you know the flux that's been going on over the last few years. But yeah, from what I can see, big, yeah, big businesses really taking hold and capitalism isn't working in my eyes. But yeah, I don't know where we go.
Angela Walker:
What do you think then? How can we encourage people to buy British?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
Well, I think it's. It's important to point out as well that the majority of people will buy, obviously, from a major retailer and actually the majority will buy on price as well. Particularly at this point where we've got the cost of living crisis, it's so important that we're in the market and that anyone in the UK has access to British food which is sustainable, climate friendly food and they're available to afford on a budget as well. Like I said, the whole discussion is on cheaper imports. There's a lot of pressure from the supermarket to bring in cheap food at the moment, but we could consider it as a short-term gain for a long-term pain, because ultimately, if that's displacing British products, then we could take it and see a big hit on the farm, where production levels drop down and we could see less British product on the shelves, because we can't always rely on some of those imports, as we've seen throughout this year. We've seen a fall-off in peppers and tomatoes salad products. They suddenly disappeared from the shelves. We saw eggs disappear from the shelves for a little bit and then suddenly Italian eggs come in. So we've had these tangible examples of what happens when we suddenly see a big, almost like a surge in imports and then relying on them. It's hard to rely on them entirely because you will start to see these gaps.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
We've got our back British farming day on the 13th of September. That's big promotion, a lot to government as well, to re-stand up, to fight for their farmers, to stand up and get these policies right, to give the industry some confidence to continue producing. I think we have seen a shift. It's taken a lot of pushing from farmers, from ourselves in a few from other bodies, to continually push, as we always have to get food security fire higher up the ladder. This is where our government can be pretty bold and positive and legislate and say look, we're going to support our climate-friendly, sustainable farmers and we're going to lead the way in animal welfare and environmental standards, which we have. But the balance is, if we continue to push these standards up and increase our liberalisation on trade policy, we could end up pricing ourselves out of the market. So it's a real sort of balance.
Angela Walker:
You guys, the NFU, has been talking to the government. What does the government say? I mean, why are they pushing ahead, making trade deals with other countries to import stuff which is basically undercutting our own farmers? That is essentially what's happening and, as you say, short-termism, isn't it? Because if it puts British farmers out of business, they won't be there anymore, and then we'll be over a barrel forced to import food which is being made to produce to lower standards and at the same time, we keep hearing about carbon offsetting and green credentials. I mean, it's like we're being told one thing but then, in effect, we're seeing another.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
I think it's important to highlight that we've had quite a few changes in government in the last short time and it's been very different for each of them. To be honest, I think this last government that we've got, with Rishis Unak in number 10, we have seen a noticeable shift in understanding the food security issues. Unfortunately, a lot of it has also come from the war in Ukraine, which is highlighting these concerns as well in a major way. You can see these tangible examples in front of us. We have seen that shift. We have seen a trade policy that is reflecting a bit more on some of our sensitive sectors.
Angela Walker:
So when you say we've seen a shift, in which direction though?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
Well, I think it's important to recognise that we're going to see these trade deals happen. This was a promise from Brexit. Whichever way you voted, a lot of what they were pushing and what they were saying was there would be more trade deals. What we've seen recently, and much more engagement, is the speed of which some of these trade deals are signed, as potentially looking like it's rowing back a little bit. There's a bit more assessments, there's a bit more making sure that the eyes are dotted at T's across, just understanding these sensitive sectors. The speed that we saw Australia and New Zealand be signed, with basically no consultation, no assessment, very little input, was fairly phenomenal and actually since then we have seen a shift, but we've been heavily pushing.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
If we know that these trade deals are going to be signed, we need to start exporting some of our products. We have premium products. Some of the markets that they're going to start opening up will have opportunities for export. We need that help. We need that support to actually brand Britain and be proud of it and export the overseas, because we cannot reduce our production here and if we're going to have some more imports in, we need to make sure there's an avenue for that market.
Angela Walker:
What do you think about that, anna? Would you be prepared to export your quality products, because if you're being undercut here by cheap, inferior meat coming in, is that the answer? Would you be happy to export more to kind of make up that difference?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Personally. No, that's just my product. I've been there, done that in the paperwork, it's just not my concern.
Angela Walker:
Is that a Brexit thing as well? The paperwork to export is that a stumbling block?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
Actually, no, I just don't like paperwork. I've exported to Dubai and actually, because there's no domestic pighead there, it wasn't as onerous. I think it would be harder to export to the EU than it is to Dubai, but yeah, it's hard enough me getting my product to customers in the UK, and you mentioned the environment there and we're not self-sufficient in pork here anyway. So to me it doesn't make sense to export pork. When we're looking at the environment. Let's keep it local and keep the food miles down, for goodness sake.
Angela Walker:
Yeah, that's a good point. I think the thing that strikes me, ben, is that we are producing a lot of great meat, a lot of great produce in this country, but the fact is that how can these farmers compete when the equivalent that comes in is cheaper because it's been produced to a lower standard? Therefore, surely consumers have a right, at a glance, to understand that what they're buying are not comparable products?
Ben Gibbons NFU:
Oh, absolutely, and that's why it harts back to that core standard push. That's why it has to be there. We can't be bringing in products that are illegal to produce here. It's pretty much as simple as that, isn't it? It has to be a level playing field and I think we feel the legislation should be on that side to help the consumer. That would help the consumer on then adding a ton more labeling on products. I think there's always a concern of adding more and more. We want to keep it simple, but if the legislation and the frameworks there to not bring in products which should be illegal to produce here makes it so much simpler on a shelf for the consumer who's rushing, not necessarily reading the whole product they're buying on price, a lot of the time the legislation is there focusing on our core standards and saying if you want to trade with us, if you want to bring your product in has to meet the same level.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
And then actually we could take that into a whole new positive and say actually Britain is proud of its high welfare, high environmental product and it's actually lifting the standards elsewhere. We could have gone at this a completely different way.
Angela Walker:
It's actually hard to believe, really, that you can buy meat in this country which has been produced to a standard which would be illegal here. I just don't think. Do you think that consumers Realize that's going on, anna?
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
I think more and more people are engaged. Now what I think we've got is a sketch generation where, say my oh gosh, my grandparents you know they, you know probably had a couple of pigs in the backyard and you know they totally understood the whole food supply chain. You know how our product is produced and you know it has to be slaughtered and X, y and Z. And then we've had farm visits and then done butchery demos in schools. Just, you know, to show, you know this is our high welfare pigs. This is the whole process. And when we've gone in, you know all of the farm, but kids and teachers, when we've gone in to do the butchery demo, taken half a pig into the school. The kids have absolutely loved it, want, wanted to know everything, how the pigs slaughtered, want to know the Internet's of everything. It's the teachers that are. They're wincing in the corner, not wanting to link the two.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
So I do think we've got a sketch generation of of some consumers who just see milk on a shelf, meat on a shelf in.
Farmer, Anna Longthorp:
You know that it comes from the supermarket, that's where food comes from, and even when I first started back in the day at farmers markets, I used to have my meat in the counter, a video of my pigs running around in the field, and I'd have, yeah, sort of the middle age. Well, back then, when I was younger, I think I'm that middle age, middle age then coming up to me saying, oh my God, does ham come from a pig? And then other other kidding no other people coming up saying, oh, you're sick, you are, but then carrying a bag full of Danish bacon, that's, you know, produced to inferior welfare standards. And I'm like, if you care about animal welfare, then you've got to think about where your food comes from, because if you don't, you'd be unknowingly supporting lower welfare standards. And there's a nation of animal lovers, you know, we want to, we want to support higher welfare standards. So that's why we need clear labeling, we need British products on British shelves.
Angela Walker:
Thanks very much, anna, and thanks for joining me, ben.
Ben Gibbons NFU:
Thanks very much.
Angela Walker:
I'm journalist Angela Walker, and today I've been in conversation with Farmer Anna Longthorpe and Ben Gibbons from the NFU. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please do review the show and subscribe, because it makes it easier for other people to find it and if there's a story you think I should be investigating, get in touch through my website. Till next time, take care.