Jim Smith has sold one million children's books and his graphic novels inspire children all over the world who might otherwise not pick up a book. He won the Roald Dahl Funny Prize in 2013 for his second book “I am still not a Loser” and the second book in the spin-off series Future Ratboy won The Laugh Out Loud Children's Book Awards in 2017 for 6–8-year olds.
In this World Book Day special, we discuss Jim's journey as an author, the inspiration for his characters and doodles, and the story behind his most famous creation Barry Loser. We ask why kids find Jim's book so funny - and Jim reveals his tips for aspiring graphic novelists.
Jim explains how he got started designing the packaging for the coffeeshop chain Puccino Coffee. He's also the illustrator and designer behind the gift and card range, Waldo Pancake.
Plus, there's a special guest appearance by one of Jim's greatest fans and a sneak peek at two new books which are out in a few months time.
Jim Smith has sold one million children's books and his graphic novels inspire children all over the world who might otherwise not pick up a book. He won the Roald Dahl Funny Prize in 2013 for his second book “I am still not a Loser” and the second book in the spin-off series Future Ratboy won The Laugh Out Loud Children's Book Awards in 2017 for 6–8-year olds.
In this World Book Day special, we discuss Jim's journey as an author, the inspiration for his characters and doodles, and the story behind his most famous creation Barry Loser. We ask why kids find Jim's book so funny - and Jim reveals his tips for aspiring graphic novelists.
Jim explains how he got started designing the packaging for the coffeeshop chain Puccino Coffee. He's also the illustrator and designer behind the gift and card range, Waldo Pancake.
Plus, there's a special guest appearance by one of Jim's greatest fans and a sneak peek at two new books which are out in a few months time.
He's sold more than a million children's books worldwide, and if you've ever bought a coffee in a railway station, there's every chance he's got a drawing on that he drew. I'm journalist Angela Walker, and in this podcast I talk to inspirational people. My guest today is award-winning children's author and graphic novelist, creator of the Barry Loser series, jim Smith. I'll be talking to Jim about how he got started and what it is that makes his books so appealing to children. Hi, jim, thank you so much for joining us.
Jim Smith:
Hi, angela, my pleasure.
Angela Walker:
And first of all, you've sold around a million books worldwide. What does that feel like?
Jim Smith:
I don't know what it feels like. Really, it's difficult to put a feeling to that. It's more that I'm just happy to be still writing books. Really, I get to sit at my desk every day writing and drawing, and that's what I've always wanted to do since I was a kid.
Angela Walker:
And how did you get started then?
Jim Smith:
Well, I always loved writing and drawing when I was a kid. I never really stopped. I went to art college and university and I just drew for three years at university. Then when I left there I was showing my work around and I made a little cut out of a wooden Santa Claus from my dad's shop. He had a lighting shop and someone saw it and they had a few coffee shops and they asked me to do a few of those for them and it went from there. Really, I started to do all their coffee designs and cups and sugar sachets and eventually I started to write little short stories and that led to me writing kids books.
Angela Walker:
And so the coffee shop chain is called Puccino's, isn't it? And they're everywhere. There are all the railway stations and so on. What's it like when you get a train and there's someone with a coffee cup and there's a picture on it that you drew?
Jim Smith:
Yeah, I have snuck a few photos of people holding my cups. I like it when I see them reading them. I even like seeing them just in bins and stuff like that.
Angela Walker:
Quite random. Have you ever been tempted to go up to someone and go oh, I drew that.
Jim Smith:
Yeah, I've been tempted. I've never done it.
Angela Walker:
You haven't done it. No, not yet it must be a good feeling. It must be a good feeling. And how do you come up with the idea for the doodles and stuff for that?
Jim Smith:
I don't know. I've always loved coming up with ideas. I went into graphic design originally because I was so ideas based and to them, my dad was in advertising. It was just always around me coming up with funny little ideas and jokes, so I just collect them in my sketchbook, really.
Angela Walker:
And I know one of your biggest characters is poor old Barry Loser. For people who aren't familiar with Barry Loser, can you tell us a bit about his story?
Jim Smith:
Yeah well, he's got an unfortunate name Barry's not the coolest name and then pair it with loser. It's pretty bad. I think it's sort of based on me having Jim Smith as a name pretty common name, yeah. So he's kind of his main thing is wanting to tell everyone that he's not actually a loser is quite a sort of imaginative little kid. So in a way it's sort of a autobiography of me. Quite a lot of the stories are based on stuff that happened to me when I was a kid.
Angela Walker:
Well, one of your biggest fans is my daughter, Emelia, and she's nine and she absolutely loves Barry loser. She's got all your books and so I'm going to introduce her here now. Emelia, what is it that you love so much about Barry Loser? (I like it because they're really rude. I love it because they poo and fart a lot and they're really rude and it makes laugh) Jim, Is that what makes your book so appealing to kids? The fact that they're a bit rude?
Jim Smith:
I think it probably is. I mean, that's the stuff I loved when I was a kid, be you know man magazine, anything a little bit subversive and naughty. I think that's what kids like.
Angela Walker:
And what about the parents, though? Do you get any feedback from the parents?
Jim Smith:
Yeah, I mean some don't like it unsurprisingly, especially if I go to a school and I teach the kids how to draw dog poo. But yeah, mostly they're all right with it, I think.
Angela Walker:
And come on, Emelia, I know you've got another question for Jim. What would you like to ask him? Okay, why do you draw the characters with really big noses?
Jim Smith:
Yes, I think I always liked cartoons with big noses, so I kind of took that, made it even bigger, and I just like noses. They're funny. We've all got a nose sticking out the middle of our faces. Not many of us are happy with our noses. I like smelling stuff as well. It's just a good comedy. Bit of the body, I think.
Angela Walker:
And there was another question, wasn't there, Emelia? Why does everyone have three? Fingers and that's why she says why do they have three fingers?
Jim Smith:
Oh yes. Well, the nice thing about cartoons is you can boil stuff down so you don't have to show five fingers in the cartoon, you can show three or four, so you still get the idea, and it's a lot quicker to do. So it's kind of a lazy man's art, I think cartooning.
Angela Walker:
Thanks, Emelia, for your questions. So they are very distinctive, these characters with the big noses and the hands and stuff like that. Was that something that you had in mind when you were coming up with Barry Loser and the kind of look of the series?
Jim Smith:
Yeah, definitely, I think. Famously, cartoons the best characters. You can tell who they are just in their silhouettes. So I thought about that and I thought, alright, they're going to have to have something that really sticks out. So once I decided it was the nose I had my silhouette that you could tell my characters just from seeing their shadows.
Angela Walker:
So Barry and his mates, they go on all these sort of journeys and have these sort of adventures. But how do you come up with the story ideas?
Jim Smith:
I just have big lists of ideas that popped into my head. I write everything down mostly. If I don't, I definitely forget it, which is really annoying. Then, when I'm about to write a story, I try and find an idea that's an emotion for the character and an idea that's a kind of situation. If I've got those two things and I generally can come up with a alright story.
Angela Walker:
And where do you come up with the idea of all the kind of? They've got some really fun names for the product in there and there was a. I think there was a drink and it was tears of grandma or something. Oh yeah, tears of granny laughter.
Jim Smith:
That's it. That's just an idea that I had that I don't know where that came from that you could make a drink out of granny tears. There's a lot of grannies in my stories. I'd collected cans and bottles when I was a kid. I was always into design and graphics, so it's that part of me being having some fun.
Angela Walker:
And how difficult was it to get a publisher to do this series. You know you've got this character. He's kind of funny looking, he's always talking about blowoffs and bogies and you know how hard was it to kind of like sell that idea and be like I want to do a whole series and I want you to pay me for that kind of thing.
Jim Smith:
I remember sharing my stuff around a publisher and someone said you've got a brain of an eight year old. So I thought, okay, I'm going to have to stick with kids books. And I knew publishers were looking for wimpy, kid kind of books. So I kind of tailored it towards that end of the market, yeah, and I just sent stuff out to agents. Luckily one of them took me on and then she sent stuff out to publishers and that was how it happened. So I mean it took years of kind of rejection, but I quite like to get rejections. It's maybe want to prove them wrong.
Angela Walker:
Yeah, there's probably people listening who are facing rejection. I mean, I know what it's like as a journalist when you picture story idea and you think it's great and nobody wants it. And what's your kind of advice to someone who's listening thinking, oh, I had this great story idea but nobody's picked up on it yet.
Jim Smith:
I think, just trust that it's great and you need to find the right person. I suppose that also thinks it's great. So I think a good stubborn streak helps, just wanting to prove people wrong and keep going, because it's the people that want to do it that end up doing it.
Angela Walker:
And how do you go about planning a graphic novel like this? Do you like come up with a story idea or the idea for the pictures? How do you? What's the sort of process and do you have a formula that you follow each time?
Jim Smith:
Yeah, I mean, I have my little story idea and I do get kind of images in my head of scenes that I think are funny and I want to get to that scene. So I kind of roughly know the arc of the story. Then I just start doing it and it's kind of two steps forward, one step back, going back and tidying up mistakes as I go. But I like kind of being able to do little detours on the way because it kind of surprises me and I think that makes for a better read.
Angela Walker:
And do you think you're ever going to get bored with it?
Jim Smith:
No, I can't see it. No, it's my favourite. I've always wanted to do it and it's my favourite thing to do.
Angela Walker:
And when you're drawing, how big are the pictures? Do you draw them like really big or are they because you know the books are kind of like A5 size? How big are the drawings?
Jim Smith:
Well, I do it all on my iPad. So I have my programme Photoshop on the iPad and I make the page to the size it is, and then I just get my Apple Pencil and draw on the iPad. So it's. I mean I can zoom in, I can zoom out, but I mean, yeah, it's just a little kind of A4 iPad.
Angela Walker:
Oh, wow.
Jim Smith:
yeah now I know that's what my dream was as a kid, and now I'm like hunched over a computer, but it's so quick I used to have to scan everything in. Now it's just there, so it's great.
Angela Walker:
And I was thinking about Barry Loser the other day and I was thinking it'd like make a great cartoon, like for TV. Is that something you've ever thought about.
Jim Smith:
Yeah, I mean it's, it's got I wouldn't say close, it's got somewhere there, some way there a couple of times, and there's someone at the moment that has optioned it, so you never know, but these things take a long time. Yeah, I'd love to see it.
Angela Walker:
Yeah, and who would have the voice? Yeah, and who would have the voice for Barry Loser?
Jim Smith:
Oh, I don't know. I mean I've got there's audio books already and it's a guy called Hugh Parmenter and he does them brilliantly. So if he wanted to do it.
Angela Walker:
That would be amazing. So what advice would you have for someone like a young person who was trying to get into graphic novels? What do they need to do?
Jim Smith:
I think definitely look at the market, see what publishers are publishing, and that probably is your best chance to get into the industry is to kind of give them something like that, but a little twist on it, and then and also just be prepared for criticism and rejection and take that on board but also stick to your vision at the same time. So it's a bit of a juggling act, but tenacity is probably the main thing.
Angela Walker:
And do you know what? I found out the other day that there's almost a million children in this country who haven't got a single book at home. And I thought, you know what? When I was growing up and I had lots of books and my mum used to take me to the library and so on, how important do you think it is for kids to have books at home?
Jim Smith:
Well, yeah, it's really important. I mean it's not only is it great escape, but unlike, say, a computer game maybe, which is great escape, and TV, the book is calming and it's great company and it will teach you something. So I think it's great that World Book Day gives people token every kid gets a token at every school to be able to get a book. And school libraries are getting better and better, I think, and they're having more and more graphic novels and things that kids like. So I don't think it's all bad. I mean, I think there are places where kids can find books and obviously, like you say, the library is brilliant. So there's places you can get them.
Angela Walker:
And do you think that your books are quite a good way in for kids that maybe aren't so much into reading, kind of you know? Yeah, because as a graphic novel they're kind of like entertaining as well as educational.
Jim Smith:
Yeah, I mean I know for my own son, who's nine, that I mean pretty much all he'll read is graphic novels, and I think I was the same at that age. I just read the Beano. So, yeah, maybe it's a fact that it's something like the Beano but it's in a book. Shape is even better because it's getting them used to holding that book. Yeah, definitely.
Angela Walker:
And do you read your Barry Loser books and future Ratboy books? Do you read those with your son?
Jim Smith:
I try not to, because he's my critic! Yeah, I leave him to it and then he'll call me upstairs, if he's reading in bed, and point out any mistakes I've made.
Angela Walker:
And does he come up with like story ideas for you and stuff like that.
Jim Smith:
Yeah, I mean just Just being around him. I get ideas. He comes home from school with little things they get up to and I jot them down. So it used to be my life that made the stories. Now it's his really.
Angela Walker:
That's I bet he loves that.. When you've got a book out and he's like, oh yeah, I suggested that?
Jim Smith:
Yeah, he plays it cool, but I can see he's interested.
Angela Walker:
Yeah, oh, bless him. So you're influencing lots of kids and young children to get into reading, but who were your influences when you were younger?
Jim Smith:
Well, it's the classic Roald Dahl really Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake together. I just thought so perfect. I loved the mix of writing and drawing on the page that they gave. And then it was comics, like Mad Magazine from America, the Beano, and then also I was just obsessed with packaging. I collected Coke cans from all over the world and I just loved the graphics on them. So it's kind of a mix of all of that.
Angela Walker:
We're big Roald Dahl and Quinton Blake fans and I love Mr Magnolia.
Jim Smith:
Oh yeah, I've read that to myself a lot.
Angela Walker:
Yeah, we read it all the time. I love the rhythm of it and the language, which is just so great. And so you've got a couple of new books coming out soon. Tell us about those ones.
Jim Smith:
Yeah, I've got a book called how to Be a Genius Kid and that is out in June, I think. Basically my kid asking me lots of questions I don't know the answers to, so I was googling all the time and I thought these are amazing actually and I can put these into a book. So it's one of those kind of fact books, but also mixed with a graphic novel. And then in August I've got my Big Fat Smelly Poo Diary coming out, which is a little kid's diary Him and his little mates, who are called the poopies, and they just get up to lots of stuff and there's a lot of poo in it.
Angela Walker:
Sounds revolting.
Jim Smith:
Yeah.
Angela Walker:
You don't mind me saying so. That means that the kids are going to absolutely love it.
Jim Smith:
Yep.
Angela Walker:
Oh, if you hadn't got into graphic novels, what else might you have done, do you think? Have you ever thought about it?
Jim Smith:
Um well, my dream was to design a Coke can, which is a bit specific. It's very specific yeah. Well, do you know what, when I go into a big greenhouse and it's all warm and misty and smells of like tomato plants, I just feel like very happy. So maybe something like that.
Angela Walker:
Oh well, maybe you could have your own greenhouse. Have you got your own greenhouse?
Jim Smith:
No,
Angela Walker:
And then you might get. Inspired you could write a whole series about it.
Jim Smith:
Yeah, maybe I'll put my desk in it. Yeah.
Angela Walker:
Yeah, well, I don't know, it might not do the iPad Bit humid. Yeah, bit too humid for the iPad. Well, thank you, jim, so much for joining us.
Jim Smith:
My pleasure.
Angela Walker:
Absolutely fascinating, and good luck with the new books.
Jim Smith:
Thank you very much.
Angela Walker:
I'm Angela Walker and I've been in conversation with Jim Smith, creator of the Barry Loser and Future Rat Boys series. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Don't forget to share, rate and review it so other people can enjoy it too, and check out my website, AngelaWalkerReportscom. Until next time, goodbye.