Navigating The Empty Nest? Discover Ways To Find Joy In Self-Discovery And Aging Gracefully With Bernadette Catalana

Do your children really know who you are?
Not just the mother who managed schedules, emotions, and daily life—but the woman underneath it all?

Motherhood shifts in midlife—so do we. Maybe you’re navigating an empty nest, single motherhood, or a quieter new chapter—you may find yourself asking deeper questions about identity, inner peace, and how to stay meaningfully connected to the people you love most.

In this episode of Confessions of a Freebird, I sit down with Bernadette Catalana, author of Daughter Lessons and mother of two, for a heartfelt and honest conversation about mother–daughter relationships, generational healing, and leading by example.

Together, we explore what it means to love our children with intention while staying true to ourselves. Bernadette opens up about the weight of people-pleasing, the emotional realities of single motherhood, and how she carried her own mother’s sorrow before consciously choosing to break that cycle. We talk about family dynamics and how generational healing often happens in the most ordinary moments—and why finding happiness isn’t something we arrive at, but something we practice along the way.

This conversation is for any woman in midlife who is learning how to release old roles, speak her truth, and model emotional freedom for the next generation.

In this episode, you’ll hear us explore:

• Why truth-telling is a radical act for women raised to keep the peace
• How personal growth and identity shift in midlife—especially after children grow up
• What it really means to lead by example as a mother
• How emotional healing in parents breaks generational trauma from being passed down. 
• The unseen weight of single motherhood—and why it deserves more compassion
• How family dynamics and generational patterns show up in everyday life
• Why choosing contentment over performance can deepen your relationship with your children

You are still deeply needed. Your presence still matters.
 And this season of life holds more meaning, connection, and love than you may realize.

If you’re ready to embrace this next chapter with honesty and heart, I invite you to listen in and join us for this rich, reflective conversation.

Much love,

Laurie

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Transcript

Laurie: Hey there it's Laurie, before we get started on today's episode, I have just a couple of quick notes so stay with me for a minute. I've recently launched a monthly newsletter where I share reflections, honest insights, and simple somatic tools I use in my own life, especially for those moments when things feel overwhelming or when you just need a gentle pause. Think of it as a soft reset you can return to each month. So go to the link in the show notes to make sure that you are on my email list.

Laurie: And if you're new here, or even if you've been listening for a while, I'd be so grateful if you took a moment to leave a review. It truly helps this podcast reach more people and you'll find easy instructions in the show notes. Now let's dive into today's episode. I am so excited to share this rich conversation with my guest, Bernadette Catalana, author of Daughter Lessons: Wise and Witty Reflections on Leading, Learning from and Loving our Daughters. And as a mother of four, I had to have her on the pod. We talk about the power of leading by example, what our daughters teach us along the way, and how learning to love more deeply and forgive when needed can reshape both our relationship with others and the relationship with ourselves. So I hope you enjoy this conversation and if someone comes to mind while you're listening, I'd love for you to share this episode with them.

Laurie: Hello there freebirds. I'm going to start today's episode with asking a question. Have you ever thought about how much our daughters, or sons, teach us about love, patience, or even ourselves? Well, my guest today, Bernadette Catalana, knows that relationship well. She's the author of Daughter Lessons: Wise and Witty Reflections on Leading, Learning from and Loving our Daughters. Bernadette grew up as one of six daughters in a family of seven. Whoa, I'm getting chills just saying that. And she brings the rich tapestry of experience along with her background as a lawyer, mentor, and mom to her reflections on motherhood. So in our conversation today, we're going to talk about the joys, the challenges, and the humor that comes with raising daughters and what it really means to love and learn alongside them. So welcome Bernadette and thank you so much for being with me today.

Bernadette: Oh Laurie, I'm so happy to be talking to you. We're across the country, but it feels like we're right across from each other. We're going to have a lot of fun today.

Laurie: Yes, and we instantly had a connection around our daughters and you know somebody that lives in my community. I don't know her, but yes there's always common threads here. So, can you start with sharing with me and our listeners the story about how your book was born?

Bernadette: Absolutely. I was getting to the point where my girls were really, really actually almost fully launched. My children are only a year apart. So in that situation, the launching happens very quickly. And I was also beginning to realize, wow, they're not going to be living with me every day. And then I got to another realization, well, there's going to be a day when they're not going to have me either, at all. You know, you think about mortality and not in a negative way, just in a very matter - of - fact way.

Bernadette: And that got me thinking about my relationship with my mom. I never really felt all that close to her or that I knew her. And that's not a knock on her. I mean, she had seven kids. She was a single mother for most of my childhood. So not a lot of her to go around. So I thought, wow, I really want my kids to know me. And we had a very different -  two versus seven is so different, right? But we had a different connection from the beginning. I definitely felt very close to my girls and I think I can safely say they felt close to me. But still, as a mother I thought, do they know me? Do they know me? And I think being the older person I thought, well, I sure wish I knew my mom. I think there's going to be a point in time when they're really going to want to know me. And how can I make sure that happens?

Bernadette: I've always had a proclivity for writing. I like to write. It's been something that I've really done my whole life and it's served me well. And I thought, I am going to get up every day for a month and I'm going to write a lesson down for my girls. And that's what I did. And then I ended up basically starting a blog and publishing a lot on that blog. And then I had people approach me saying, you know, you should make this into a book because then everybody can have your book, buy your book. Which is interesting because the trying to get the book together really ended the blog because I only have so many hours in the day.

Bernadette: But I have started blogging again a little bit this year, just posting things up. I was a guest columnist around Mother's Day and I posted all those and - I need to make it a point to get back there but I do love to write. And the process was extremely interesting for me and the book continues to teach me over and over again. I'll look at a lesson and I'll think, wow, when I wrote it, I thought this. But now I'm looking at it and I'm thinking something different. So it really was an amazing process of personal growth which I set out to do as a, you know, a love project for the two people in the world that I love the most, my daughters.

Laurie: Yeah, how beautiful. And I love that comment about when you wrote it, it had one meaning and then you come back to it in the future, whether that's six months or a year, and you see it differently. Can you give an example of that or one of those lessons that stood out to you that way?

Bernadette: Yeah, There's one part of the book and I'm trying to remember where I actually - I'm going to look in the table of contents but I can tell you what I was describing. I was describing having to walk to the grocery store with my mom and my little sister because after my dad left us we didn't have a car. And my poor mother who was suffering so much, she not only was heartbroken because she loved my dad so much, she had some really practical challenges. And one of the daily challenges was how do I get food home for all these kids? Because I don't have a car. And it wasn't like we lived right next to the grocery store.

Bernadette: So my little sister and I were the ones who ended up going with her to the grocery store. But what was really, really interesting that I learned afterward when I was reflecting on it is, I thought the groceries were so hard. I thought the groceries were heavy. But what was really heavy was the weight of my mother's sorrow. And that is what I realized afterward and it was - that was just so hard.

Laurie: Well, and that is such a point or awareness because we do carry other people's emotions. We feel other people's emotions. And even in the moment you didn't know that, but you later realized that.

Bernadette: Later realized it. It was really, really difficul - okay so here we go. I wrote about.

Bernadette: Much of what I know about faith I learned from my mother, or Grammy, as she is lovingly known to many. One of my earliest memories of her strong faith dates back to a summer in 1975. It was August 15th, the Feast of the Assumption, and Grammy, my sister Elaine, my brother Paul, and I were making the long walk home from mass. It was sweltering. We were on foot because we didn't have a car. That was probably just as well because no one in the house knew how to drive. That is, until my sister Anne got her license that summer. With one licensed driver in the family, we could think about getting a car, which would help us with the arduous task of getting groceries for eight people home. Our current system involved multiple trips to the grocery store each day on foot.

Laurie: Hey freebirds, I wanted to take a quick pause in our conversation to share something I've created just for you. If you've been curious about nervous system regulation but aren't sure where to start, I've put together a Nervous System Regulation Starter Kit. A gentle, practical guide to help you begin feeling safer and more grounded in your body. Inside it you'll find simple daily practices, easy - to - use worksheets to help you track your nervous system patterns, and three guided somatic practices you can return to again and again. These tools are designed to help you show, not just tell, your nervous system that you're safe in the present moment. It's normally a $59 value but I'm offering it for just $29 because I want this to be accessible for anyone ready to begin their healing journey. Head to the link in the show notes to grab yours and start feeling more regulated and connected today. Now let's get back to the episode.

Bernadette: So I started writing about that and I kind of wove it throughout. I know that I have other allusions to that. But I remember going back as a kid and those trips and just feeling like my arms are going to break. These bags are so heavy. We didn't have plastic bags then either. Remember old fashioned - just grocery bags.

Bernadette: My mom would carry - probably had three. My little sister and I probably only had one, but we thought it was so heavy. And you know, as I've gone on in my life, I've realized that much of that has thought what was so heavy was the actual weight of the groceries, but it really was the weight of how sad my mom was. My mother was so sad for much of my childhood, as a child then, we didn't - it's not like we had counselors or it's not like my mom was going to see a therapist or anything like that. 

Laurie: Well you didn't have a car and you certainly weren't going to therapy.  It wasn't a thing back then, but you weren't going to therapy either.

Bernadette: No, I wasn't going to therapy either. But I will say that that sorrow and that setting of sorrow also did set me up for much happiness and joy when I had my own girls because it was so different. It was so very different. I did not know that motherhood could be so joyful. 

Laurie: And was that a conscious decision on your part to create a more joyful experience than your mom had?

Bernadette: You know, that's such a great question and a very intuitive question. And I will say, no. I was a young mom and I think I was just so happy to feel part of something. Until I had my girls, even though I was one of many children, I was part of that big clan of people - I never really felt like I belonged or that I felt safe. And that's no knock on my siblings. We were all just doing the best that we could. But I think as children, you want someone to be in charge. And without my dad, my mom was in charge but she was compromised. And I knew that. I knew that as a ten - year - old.

Laurie: And then we end up adapting in those situations and doing things so that way we can feel safe in our family. But yes, I totally understand that belonging piece because I'm adopted and so that's something that I completely can relate to and dealt with for much of my life too.

Bernadette: And then when you had your own children, it probably felt so almost foreign to you, but wonderful.

Laurie: Yeah, definitely. And I did want to create something different. So maybe not fully conscious to the extent that I am now, but I wanted to create a family that felt like a family that everybody felt like they belonged. So that was really important to me is my kids. That all fell apart 26 years later but that's a whole - my listeners, if they've been with me since the beginning, they know that.

Laurie: But going back to you, in your book, you broke it down into three parts. You talk about Leading, Learning, and Love. Can you touch on each one of those sections?

Bernadette: Sure. I think, well leading is, you know, how do we lead ourselves? And, you know, I'm just going to open to the table of contents. I mean really that's the thing, how do we lead ourselves and what lessons can I share with my girls specifically about leading themselves through life and some of the things that I learned that worked for me. And if you look down the table of contents, I mean it's there. Tell the truth. And be true to you. Be true to who you are. And part of being true to who you are is figuring out who am I?

Laurie: Right.

Bernadette: Not many people do that.

Laurie: Well, and I think like depending on how your family situation when you were raised, but then also I think a lot of people lose themselves once they do become mothers. I know I lost a part of myself through raising my kids, caring for my elderly parents, and then navigating a divorce. There was a big part of me that I lost that I had to regain. So, they talk about the 20s as being such an important time to really figure out who you are. But I think later in midlife is also another opportunity for some, not all, but for some people who have lost themselves as well.

Bernadette: Yes, and it is easy to get lost in the, extremely time - consuming, all - consuming job of motherhood. And I lost myself in a good way. And I do think I discovered a lot more about myself as I hit midlife. In fact, I think writing this book really helped me articulate not only my vision and my wisdom that I wanted to share with my kids, but it helped me identify it for myself. You know, what's really important to me?

Laurie: Well, I love that you started with truth because and you talk about being true to ourselves. But why do you think that's important?

Bernadette: We often betray ourselves. Especially as women we are brought up to be nice. And being nice often involves betraying us. Betraying who we are, what we want. Betraying our feelings because we want - we are supposed to keep the peace. We're supposed to be nice. Everybody wants one to be nice.

Laurie: Or be the glue for the family.

Bernadette: Exactly. So that role is thrust upon us at a really early age and I really - I recognized that and I wanted truth - truth should lead all of us along. To me that is really an important lesson.

Laurie: But I think that takes time for us to to figure that out. But yeah.

Bernadette: Yes, and truth can change. You know, one thing that I do, I am a daily journaler. So I journal - or that sounds funny but it's a fun word, but it's true. I do - I've journaled every day since 2005. Almost every day. I pick up my - first thing I do is pick up my pen and start writing. And in the very beginning, I had a series of questions. I heard that it would be easier to start a journal if I started doing that. So one of the questions was: What do I want? And I could not answer that question. I could not answer that question. And eventually the answers came. And the answers have also changed. And that's okay too. We just have to keep asking ourselves the question. What do we want? And who am I? Who am I right now? Who am I today? Because that changes and in the different roles we have.

Bernadette: And taking care of aging parents is no joke.

Laurie: No.

Bernadette: That is - that is a tough one. And watching my mom died two years ago yesterday. So big anniversary there. And that was an excruciating, excruciating time of my life was all of us watching her go downhill and her sadness and her unfinished business is the only way that I can describe it. And it was hard. It's so hard we don't want it - we love our children so much and we want to see them happy. And one thing I have learned during that process is children want their parents to be happy too. It almost as much - if not as much, right?

Laurie: Yeah.

Bernadette: And it was hard - that was hard.

Laurie: But I think the other lesson in that too, and tell me if you disagree, is I mean yes that - we want happiness for our kids. We - but as human beings we're - we feel and we feel a range of emotions. And so there are going to be times in our lives when we aren't happy. Or that we're sad or we're grieving something. And can we be okay with that? Can we be okay with that with our children and can we be okay that with ourselves and the loved ones?

Bernadette: Yeah, I think it's interesting because we have a society - I mean it's like "Happiness Project". I loved that book and that was great. But I think what we - I think what that book did, and I did, I really enjoyed it - it probably led me to a point of realizing that happiness - it is more - it's for me happiness is more am I satisfied? Am I growing? Am I making progress?

Laurie: Or maybe content, is that...

Bernadette: Right. Exactly. Content is a great word for it. But I think that you know happiness is also - and I did write about this - it's not just reaching the goal, but it's also reaching for the goal, right? It's not just attaining it, it's the road to the goal is probably one of the biggest parts of happiness. And I have a little entry on happiness here. And at the end I think I hit it, is: Probably the best thing I've realized while searching for happiness is that it can be found in both reaching the goal and in all the wonderful moments that happen while moving towards it. For example, buying the oldest house in Rochester and fixing it up was a wonderful goal. When I reached the moment where the old falling down house was actually a beautiful home because of my care, I was so happy. But I also had countless happy moments along the way each and every day. For the first full year, I woke up nearly every morning and looked around in the former ballroom turned bedroom and whispered to myself, I can't believe this is my house. Happiness is two things: reaching high for whatever it is you want, but also remembering to look close at what you have and enjoying it in the moment exactly as it is.

Laurie: Yeah, beautiful. And so the happiness chapter, is that in Learning or is that in the Love section?

Bernadette: It's actually in Lead. Because I felt - did I? Yes. It's in the Lead section. And I think I did it because I felt like happiness is kind of tricky, right? Because again as women we're socialized, you know we have to put everyone's happiness before ourselves. But one thing that I found is that when I allow myself to be happy and I put my happiness first, I'm giving other people permission to put their happiness first and what they want. And especially as the mother of daughters, I realize what a powerful gift that is.

Laurie: Yes.

Bernadette: Because we lead by example.

Laurie: Yes.

Bernadette: So you can say, oh I want you to be happy, I want you to be happy. But if you've never done anything in your life to fulfill your own happiness, what are you really saying?

Laurie: Right.

Bernadette: You're saying, okay girls, I want you to be happy but what I'm telling you through my actions is your happiness isn't going to be all that important once you have kids or once this or once that, you know?

Laurie: Right.

Bernadette: So I did think it was important to put it in that section.

Laurie: Yeah, I love that. And what about the Learn section? What are a couple of poignant...

Bernadette: Oh wow. I learned a lot.

Laurie: Okay. Maybe just one or two out of that section.

Bernadette: Yeah, I am happy to do that. Um, I think one of them is that I love - when I'm looking at this - "To my younger sisters on getting older." Because I think this is again, this is something so universal. We know - or at least we we wish - for our daughters to reach old age. Or older age. I don't know if there is such a thing as old age, but older age. We want them to mature. We want them to have as many years, happy healthy years on the planet as they can have. Because life is great.

Bernadette: And I, you know, have listened to my friends, I've listened to my younger colleagues, I've, you know, just my beautiful, beautiful friends worry about getting older because as women this is - we as little, little girls we are prized not for being smart - I mean I think that's changing -

Laurie: Yes.

Bernadette: But the focus on how we appear is so...

Laurie: Big emphasis on that, yes.

Bernadette: It is. It is. So I wrote this when one of my younger friends was turning 40. She called me in a complete panic two days before and was really, you know, she's always somebody who's calm, cool and collected and she was a mess. And I sat down, I talked her through it of course, and then I sat down and I wrote this. And it's called "To my younger sisters on getting older."

Bernadette: Dear little sisters, I have been a refuge for more than a few of you when you face big birthdays or that first gray hair or the last child leaving home. People seek my advice because I am a veteran of many milestones associated with the passage of time. I often laugh at the incredulity shown when others learn my age or even better, the ages of my children. But I admit for most, age is a serious matter. I have been interrogated about my skincare rituals and facial treatments, diet protocols and exercise routines. My medicine cabinet has been subject to thorough inspection. I will not lie and say that those things don't matter. They do because they help to keep the outside reflective of the inside. The part of us that's immune to erosion. Indeed, the inside and the outside are connected. Pretty thoughts can prompt a pretty smile, highlighting your face better than any selfie light. Most importantly, keep in mind that age is a privilege not extended to everyone. Wear it with pride and a fabulous pair of shoes, knowing that you are in great company.

Laurie: Mmm. How beautiful.

Bernadette: So, right? I mean I feel like we need to be honest and we need to acknowledge we've got a lot. My significant other says to me all the time, your life is hard. Just your hair alone is - he's bald. So he's like, just the hair, I can't handle how much time you spend on your hair. And I'm like, I know, I live in this world. I'm trying.

Laurie: I know, right? But those are times when I wish I was a man. I don't really want to be a man but there are moments.

Bernadette: Oh, oh, no. So, so, so true.

Laurie: But I think that's so beautiful because so much though, it's - yes we want the outside to match our insides. But so much of it when I look at people is - or if I'm meeting somebody - it's really about who the person is on the inside.

Bernadette: Oh yes.

Laurie: Right? Do they have warmth? Do they have heart? Do they want to connect? I mean those are the important attributes. At least at this age I look for in somebody. And I think that was a learned - which is appropriate since it's in the learned section - that's something I had to learn because that wasn't something that was modeled for me growing up. I mean my mom was a teacher and she was social, my dad was very anti - social. And you know my mom was warm but that was - you know that took me a little while to because I didn't always feel safe in new relationships. So I definitely had to learn that. But yeah, you know women and daughters and then you know it's like how much do you let your kids explore with the makeup and the outfits and all of that. I mean most of my listeners have kids that are already launched and out on their own similar to your kids. But I mean I don't know about - my daughters don't wear makeup. They don't do their hair every day. And fortunately they have jobs where you know they can get by with a lot of that because a lot of it is virtual. I mean yes if they blow dry their hair and they put some makeup on if they're going in the office, but they're not big makeup kids even though I let them do some of that in high school.

Bernadette: Hmm. Yeah, that's a good observation and how do we encourage. You know, I think I mean for me I love clothes. I am a clothes horse. Love clothes. Absolutely I passed that down to my children. My mother was not. Her mother was. So it's an interesting thing. And sometimes I think, oh my gosh why do I care? But as a lawyer, this is one of the only things every day that I can do to express myself and to be creative.

Laurie: Yeah.

Bernadette: So I give myself a pass. Like okay. I'm going.

Laurie: Yeah, well you know what and there's no right or wrong. I mean I love clothes too. And a couple of my kids love it more than others. It's just interesting because everybody's a little bit different. And I think it's more about honoring who our kids are. And honoring the daughter that isn't and honoring the daughter or son that is. And not shaming them for not wearing makeup or you'd look so much better if you wore makeup or whatever it is, right? And just accepting them for who they are.

Bernadette: Yes, we have to respect our children and their choices for their - because only they can live their lives. We don't control. We don't control them. We can lead them but in the end they make their own choices and we have to be respectful of that. That's no doubt.

Laurie: And what about the Love section or part of the book?

Bernadette: Yes. Love was - and you know what? The lessons weren't written sequentially so things may have been written at different points in time. But the Love section was also such a nice way to really recognize people in my life and the love in my life. I mean I write about my own motherhood and how I was truly blown away having my girls and by the love that I felt for them and it was truly one of the most joyous times of my life. No doubt about that. I write about one of my - I've only had two dogs. Jackson is with me, my dog Peanut died so I write about Peanut. A couple of posts about Peanut. My grandmothers. I loved my grandmothers. I write about my dad's significant other.

Bernadette: And this was amazing because you know it was hard. My parents divorcing in a very small Catholic town. We were in Catholic school. We were the only family that was - and I say the word "broken" which is such a terrible term because our home wasn't broken. It was - I mean yes my mother was brokenhearted but it just was such a stigma that word, the broken home. For sure.

Laurie: Yeah, people didn't divorce back then and it was very taboo and it's so much more accepted now.

Bernadette: It is. It is. And there are certain people that probably shouldn't be together. And you're not teaching your kids - well I shouldn't say that. I mean some people stay together for the kids and that's okay. We all make the best decisions we can for our children. But kids are not dumb. And they can see if there's a strain.

Laurie: They can see, they can feel, right? Like you talked about earlier, feeling the emotions of your mother and your father if he's in the house. My kids felt it before I divorced. Completely.

Bernadette: Yeah. It's difficult. So I think a lot of this - I have several passages about my dad whom I loved so much but as my best friends and I'm still in touch with my best friends from grammar school and they have told me, we were all ordered to hate your father including you when he left your mom. And that's true. That's absolutely true. So I did you know - but I never did hate him. I loved him. I was sad. Was sad to not be with him. But I am proud of myself because you know before he passed I made a big effort to reconnect with him and to try to help him know me a little bit. And forgiving him. So maybe a good one to explore - and I wrote this on a Father's Day - it's called "Forgiving our fathers." And whether your parents are intact or not, you know, we all need to forgive our parents for one thing or another I believe. So the little quote, so each passage has a quote. And this one is called - it's by Rumi. "Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there."

Bernadette: My father could best be described as difficult. Our relationship could equally be described as difficult. Consequently I struggled each Father's Day searching for the right card and inevitably concluding that the greeting card companies were woefully underserving the market of children who did not have custodial dads. But like all children, I never gave up the hope that someday things would change. And they did, right in the nick of time. When my father was dying, I had a vivid dream. He was lying in his hospital bed, enveloped by sadness. I watched myself approach him and asked, Dad, what's wrong? He replied that he was sad because he failed me, had failed us, because he wasn't around. Without hesitation, my dream self assured him, Oh no dad, don't you know, I picked you specifically. Everything I am and was meant to be unfolded perfectly, exactly as it is. Immediately my father's face lit up like gold. He was at peace. I awoke, shaken but knowing this dream was very important. A few days later I wrote it down and sent it to my father in a letter. He never mentioned receiving it, but six months later at his funeral, his significant other, Noreen, told me that I had given him a tremendous gift. Ironically, I had given myself an even greater gift. I let myself see my dad for who he was and who he wasn't and I chose to love him anyway.

Laurie: Oh. Okay, that just gave me chills. And that's not an easy place to get to. For so many because so many hold on to that anger and that resentment for their parent not being what they needed them to be when they were younger. And how beautiful that you were able to do that. You know whether it came through a dream or therapy or whatever, like you were able to do that. And for yourself. For him but mostly for yourself.

Bernadette: Forgiveness is all about us. And people don't realize it. And the thing is when we hold on to things and we nurture resentment and we nurture anger and we nurture the things that are negative - it's like it's the poison we drink thinking the other person's going to die. You know, you have to get to a point - and I have found when I allow myself to maybe take a step back and look at a situation, inevitably there's some distortion. Like we have to realize that our childish self doesn't necessarily see things exactly as they are or as they were. We see them through our childish eyes and through misperception and so those things - like we really do need to let go. I always try to think of myself you know on things that are negative and interactions that are negative, I'm going to try to have the brain of a mouse. Small and just forgetful. I'm going to forget. But when it comes to the good stuff, I'm going to be like an elephant and I'm going to hold on to those good things and try to carry those. Because when you think about - you think about it - what if we treated everybody according to the best thing they've ever done for you? I do, I think about people that I've been mad at or even right now people in my life that I'm struggling with. But each of them, each of these people have done something for me. Something positive. And I was thinking this year, you know as the year turned - I can't believe we're in October already - I'm going to try to focus on you know the best thing this person has ever done for me. Not going to worry about the worst thing they've ever done. I'm going to focus on the best thing they've ever done. And I think sometimes when we alter that perception for ourselves, then somehow energetically people come along with it too. And then they start acting better and different. So changing the energy of holding those past hurts can make a huge difference.

Laurie: Totally. And it doesn't mean that you don't set a boundary with them. Right? You can still hold boundaries around people but raising that energy - and sometimes you need to work through that. Like sometimes we can just shift that perspective but sometimes there needs to be a little bit more work done whether it's therapy or coaching or somatic work. But yes, I love, love, love that.

Laurie: So as we come to a close, there were so many other questions that I wanted to get to but this conversation has been so rich without those questions. What's one confession that you would like to share with our listeners that or a takeaway that we haven't discussed?

Bernadette: Wow. Oh confession. I mean that right there strikes fear in my heart. Um, a takeaway. I think - well we started talking about you know our adult children and you said that so many of your listeners have launched their kids. And I think this is a hard time of life for many people because they feel that they aren't necessary anymore. And I'm going to challenge everybody out there to think of it differently because now when our children come to us, they come with big problems. I mean I'd rather be solving the "I forgot my lunch" or you know that kind of thing.

Laurie: Or homework.

Bernadette: Exactly. Or you know "I left my violin in my locker" kind of thing. Right? I love - I miss those problems. Now the problems are bigger. We're talking about life decisions. We're talking about very serious things.

Laurie: Yeah. A friend used to say little kids little problems, big kids bigger problems.

Bernadette: Yes. So nothing truer has been said than that. And we are needed in just in a in a real way, in a true way. But it's different kind of parenting. We're not in control anymore. But we have so much influence. So think of yourself as an influencer. We're not an influencer on Instagram or on Facebook if that's even a thing anymore, but we influence our children and we have so much profound influence over them by the lives we live and by what we do to keep ourselves growing and strong and to show them the way. Because so many women get - they hit a certain age and they get discouraged. And if you 20 years from now heard one of your daughters saying that, you'd say stop that right now. That's ridiculous. So I think we have to really take very seriously that we continue to model for our children, particularly our daughters, and we need to embrace the future with hope, with energy, with excitement. And we need to - that we need to love. We need to love ourselves. We need to love them and we need to love life.

Laurie: Yeah. So beautifully said. And just to piggyback on everything that you said, I think also as - and tell me if you see it differently - as we talked about, my kids are living all over the country. I only have one that lives a couple hours away and one that's about to move to Singapore with her husband. So you know you talked about the parenting and parenting of adult kids and bigger kids bigger problems. It might be less frequent that we're needing to parent them, but the importance is greater. Would you say that's true in terms of taking our wisdom and taking the things that we've learned so when they do come to us to help us with something, it's greater and it has more meaning versus the day - to - day.

Bernadette: Yeah. You're like the high stakes consultant, right? You are there for the big things. You're not the house manager anymore. But you've almost graduated to an even higher level job. And it is truly important. I think about - my mom has been gone two years and I think about just facing that loss. We are so important to our kids. And our kids, they know it, but until we're gone they'll never really know the weight of it. And that I feel losing my own mom. For sure.

Laurie: Well thank you so much Bernadette for this conversation. How can people find your book and how can people find you and or your blog?

Bernadette: Oh sure. My book is Daughter Lessons and it's available on Amazon. It's really, really easy to find. So Daughter Lessons and my last name Catalana, C - A - T - A - L - A - N - A. You can email me at bernadette@daughterlessons.com. And I have a website, daughterlessons. So you can find that daughterlessons.com. So one daughter - in the title it's one daughter multiple lessons. So because people mix up the - they put daughters lesson but it's Daughter Lessons.

Laurie: Beautiful. Okay I'll make sure those links are in the show notes so people can just click right on that too. But in case somebody's listening in the car or whatever. So yes. So thank you so much for being here and for sharing your beautiful book and this incredible rich conversation.

Bernadette: Oh, it was so nice to talk to you Laurie. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. And good luck with your girls and with the going away party. Going away celebration party.

Laurie: Thank you.

Bernadette: That'll be great.

Laurie: Thank you for listening to this episode of Confessions of a Freebird. I'm grateful to be in your ears and hearts. If you're interested in becoming a freebird, I'd love to support you. Please check out my website at laurieejames.com to learn how we can work together or to sign up for my newsletter so you can receive tips on how to date and relationship differently and ultimately find more freedom and joy in your life. If you found this podcast helpful, please follow or subscribe, rate and review, and share it with friends so they can find more freedom in their second or third act also. Until next time.