Divorce Financial Planning: How to Build Financial Security & Confidence with Jennifer Lee

What if your relationship with money started long before you ever had a bank account?

Money can be more intimate than sex — yet so many of us fear it, avoid it, or feel a desperate need to control it. That relationship often traces back further than we realize: your first interaction with money, how your parents managed theirs, or whether you were ever trusted to make financial decisions of your own. If you're in midlife and find yourself as the non-moneyed spouse, or wondering whether you'll truly be okay on your own — this episode is for you.

In this episode, I sit down with Jennifer Lee, financial advisor and founder of Modern Wealth, for a grounded, honest conversation about men and women in transition, money, identity, divorce, loss, and what it actually takes to understand what you have and build a life within your means.

We talk about the deeper story behind your relationship with money — the patterns, roles, and unspoken fears that surface the moment finances enter the conversation. This episode is designed to help you create enough clarity to stop avoiding the numbers and start making financial decisions rooted in your values and what you actually want.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• How to identify your money story — and the patterns it may have quietly created
• Why your earliest money memories still shape your financial choices today
• How divorce financial planning brings clarity to one of life's hardest transitions
• The most important factors to understand before and during a divorce
• What to ask before choosing a financial advisor
• Why the non-moneyed spouse needs a seat at the financial table
• How to divide marital assets and retirement accounts — and what a QDRO (Qualified Domestic Relations Order) is and when to start that process
• What it looks like when money becomes a form of control in relationships
• How financial literacy builds lasting confidence with money
• What wealth building can look like after a major life transition
• Why money conversations matter when dating, partnering, or starting over

Whether you're preparing for divorce, rebuilding your financial independence, or learning to trust yourself with money again — this conversation is a reminder that you don't have to know everything to begin making more empowered choices.

Much love and freedom,

Laurie

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Previous Episode with Jennifer Lee - Understanding Divorce and How to Prepare for A Strong Financial Future

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 in this show should not be construed as specific recommendations or investment advice. Always consult with your investment professional before making important investment decisions. Securities offered through Registered Representatives of Cambridge Investment
 Research, Inc., a broker-dealer, member FINRA/SIPC. Advisory services offered through Cambridge Investment Research Advisors, Inc., a Registered Investment Advisor. Modern-Wealth, LLC and Cambridge are not affiliated.

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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL, MEDICAL OR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LICENSED THERAPIST IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LICENSED MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL WITH RESPECT TO ANY MEDICAL ISSUE OR PROBLEM.

Transcript

Laurie James: Hey there, it's Laurie. Before we get started on today's episode, I wanna be honest with you about something. For most of my life, money has been a difficult topic for me. I didn't grow up with money. I saw my parents fight about money constantly growing up, and my difficult relationship with money isn't because I don't understand it, but because earning my own, managing my own, trusting myself with my own money was always wrapped up in something deeper than a spreadsheet.

It's tangled up in my sense of self-worth, and it still stops me in my tracks sometimes, even though I've worked on it repeatedly. It shows up in what I believe I deserve, in patterns that have been running quietly in the background since childhood, long before I ever had a bank account of my own. Because working hard doesn't always equate more dollars, especially when you're the non-money-earning spouse, and you are the one staying home to raise the family.

And I know I'm not alone in this one, because here's what I've learned. The way you relate to money has very little to do with math and everything to do with the story you've been handed about your worth, what you're allowed to have, and whether you can be trusted to hold it, invest it, spend it in the way that's aligned with your values.

So today I'm sitting down with one of my favorite returning guests, Jennifer Lee of Modern Wealth, for a conversation that goes beyond financial planning. We're talking about what money actually means during the major transitions of our lives: divorce, loss, reinvention, and how to finally get free from the money beliefs that have been quietly running the show since you were a kid sitting at the dinner table. If your relationship with money has ever felt more emotional than logical, you are in exactly the right place, and if this conversation stirs something for you and you want to do the deeper work around it, I'd love to support you. You can find the link to schedule a free inquiry call in the show notes. So let's dive in.

Laurie James: Welcome to Confessions of a Free Bird podcast. I'm your host, Laurie James, a mother, divorcee, recovering caregiver, the author of Sandwiched: A Memoir of Holding On and Letting Go, a therapy junkie, relationship coach, somatic healer and now podcaster. I'm a free spirit here to lift you up. On this podcast, I'll share soulful confessions and empowering conversations with influential experts so you can learn to spread your wings and make the most of your second half. So pop in those earbuds, turn up the volume, and let's get inspired, because my mission is to help you create your most joyful, purpose driven life, one confession at a time.

Laurie James: Welcome back, free birds. A question for you to start today's podcast. What if money wasn't just about numbers but about identity, emotions, and the transitions that shape our lives? Today's guest, I'm welcoming back Jennifer Lee. She's the founder of Modern Wealth, for a powerful conversation about what really matters when finances collide with major life changes like divorce, loss, or stepping into a new season with your partner.

We are going to discuss how you can move from the non-monied spouse to empowered partner by taking steps to transition into financial independence with clarity and confidence. We're also gonna touch on other topics too. Jennifer has 30 years in the financial services world, and she brings a deep human approach to money, one that honors values, relationships, and legacy just as much as assets.

We talk about navigating uncertainty, making aligned decisions during transitions, and why financial planning is never just about the spreadsheet. So this episode is for any of you who's rethinking your relationship with money, whether you are single, married, divorced, or widowed, and wanting to move forward with more clarity and intention. So welcome back, Jennifer. I can't believe the first episode that you and I recorded dropped back in October of 2024. Time flies.

Jennifer Lee: That's amazing. That's a long time.

Laurie James: I know. And you were on to share about your book at the time that was just published, Squeeze the Juice: Live with Purpose, Then Leave a Legacy. So can you share with our listeners what you've been up to? Just give them another brief background of who you are and what you've been up to since then.

Jennifer Lee: Sure. Absolutely. So, I'm an independent advisor who has a practice that's built on transition. So I really focus primarily with- I don't discriminate, but my niche is women in financial transition. I certainly work with happily married couples and with men as well, and then we also focus on business transition, so business owners that are looking to exit their practice or their business. So, that's really our area of focus. I didn't write a book in between the last time we-

Laurie James: Yeah. No, that's okay. Can you also just share with our listeners, I love the relationship you had with your father. Can you just share with our listeners a little bit more about that relationship that you had with your father and how that kind of led you to getting into this industry?

Jennifer Lee: Absolutely. Well, you know, I'm very fortunate. Absolutely love my business and industry and what I do, and it's really accidental that I'm in it because my father was in it. So, you know, I really didn't know what I was getting into when I said yes. What I knew was that my dad loved what he did. He enjoyed working with his clients. It didn't feel like work, and he was always around. He was always available to us. So, we had a great life.

So when he asked me in my accounting job, "Hey, do you want to come join me?" I said yes, and understand I didn't know that I would have to talk to people and ask them about their finances and get into the meat of things. So, you know, I've really built my practice around trying to make money palatable to the non-monied party because people get nervous about it. And I mean, I've been playing, rolling coins since I was a little kid, and I'm comfortable with the subject, and so I try to help my clients understand that money's just a tool, and that tool is to get you what you want and what you need in life. And you don't have to be a financial expert, but you do have to have a little financial aptitude, and we can help you do that in a way that doesn't feel threatening.

Laurie James: Yeah. Why do we have this ominous relationship with money? I mean, based off of working with the clients that you have through the years, why do we struggle with money so much in your opinion?

Jennifer Lee: My experience and my opinion is it's really- it's learned, or it's the lack of opportunity to learn. So think about the very first story, the very first memory of money in your life. You know, was it an aunt who was particularly generous but never had any money at the end of the month, but would give you everything? Was it of a parent who said, "We can't buy that because we don't have enough money"? You know, what was it? Those things are gonna set the stage for how you relate to money, how you understand it, whether you're particularly nervous about making sure that you have it, or whether you get it and you just spend it.

Um, and there's all kinds of variations in between, right? We need a balance of those things. I always say financial planning is simple, and people laugh, and they're like, "Yeah, right. What do you mean?" Well, it is. What is your income and assets? So what's your job? What do you make? Do you have alimony? Do you have inheritance that generates income? Do you have rental property? Do you have a job? What is it over here?

And what do you have? Do you have investments? Do you have a house? Do you have a business? What do you have? And then what do you want, right? Now, that sometimes is harder, right? I can't make up what you want. I can help you tease it out. But what do you want? Do you wanna send your kid to private school? Do you wanna just make sure you have an extra $1,000 in your savings account? Do you want to have an unlimited shoe budget? Do you wanna travel the world every year? What is it that you want?

My job, or an advisor's job, is to bridge the two. Take what you have, make it as efficient as possible to get you what you want, right? It's not rocket science, but it feels intimidating, so we really try-

Laurie James: It is. And but I also think for some people, probably more so women, and I know this was my case at one point when I was younger, is I also wanted to be taken care of, right? Like, I chose to stay home and raise my kids, and I did feel like we were dividing and conquering when I was married. But there was a part of me that wanted to be taken care of, and I wanted him to do that, and that's, you know, our societal gender roles. And I realize that, for me personally, may have been a mistake, and over time, I changed that perspective through my 26-year marriage of like, oh no, I want this to be more of a partnership because there was a sense of inequality-

Jennifer Lee: Yes.

Laurie James: —and a sense of, I'll say, superiority or that I became more aware of that was playing out.

Jennifer Lee: Well, I would think that it naturally happens that way over time. It can. Um, if you're in that traditional relationship where, you know, he's the breadwinner and you're taking care of the kids and all the other responsibilities, and you're absolutely right, it is dividing and conquering. And sometimes I'll have clients who are the homemaker, and they're like, "Yeah, but I don't need life insurance," or, "I don't make anything." Well, let me tell you something. To replace all the things that you do, it's gonna cost a lot of money to hire somebody to run the kids around, to make sure that they have healthy meals, to do the shopping, to clean the house, to get the clothes r- I mean, it's no joke to organize all the trips and everything.

A mom's job is quite a lot. There's a really funny YouTube- and I'll have to find it for you- it's where they set a job application out, and this was the job description. And people would come in and they'd be interviewed, and they'd say, "Well, you know, are you willing to take calls at any hour of the night? And are you willing to, if, you know, somebody gets sick, clean it up?" And it went on, and people were like, "No, I'm not doing that." And they're like, "The job was to be a mom."

Laurie James: Yeah. Are you willing to be the chauffeur? Are you willing to be the cook? Are you willing to be the housekeeper? Are you willing to organize umpteen schedules? The personal buyer, you know, the house decorator, on and on. Yeah.

Jennifer Lee: It's huge. So that is really comical, and I think it's for women who are in that role because it is a big job. And maybe you don't get enough credit, or society doesn't give enough credit.

Laurie James: No, not maybe. Our society doesn't. I mean, there are certain people that do, but our society in general doesn't, and unfortunately I feel like we're slipping back a little bit in that sense also right now. So that concerns me a little bit right now.

Jennifer Lee: For sure. And I think that when you look at- you spoke about that relationship and it kinda chipping away and shifting where it felt like there was an inequity. Um, just some things that you could do in a healthy relationship is if you're the non-monied person, you're not the breadwinner, you're not the person who decides how you're gonna investment allocate and what you're gonna do with those monies, how much you're gonna save and everything else, you need to at least once a year participate in the financial review with the advisor, okay?

Because you are a critical part of the family unit and decision-making. Are we gonna retire early? Are we gonna move to a different state? Do the kids go to private school? How much money do we need to save for a vacation? We got an inheritance, what are we gonna do with that? You're part of that discussion. You don't have to be an expert in how your investments are made, but you need to be at the table.

Laurie James: Yeah, I agree. I would agree 100%. Even if it makes you nervous, even if you don't feel as knowledgeable because that's how we gain that knowledge. And that's something that I had to do over time, is put myself in that position and be uncomfortable in the room because my ex-husband, he was a CPA and finance guy, right? So he did this kind of work day in and day out. I wasn't. So th- that power imbalance was challenging for me to overcome.

And now that I'm on my own, it's like, okay, so it's on me. Now, I'm in charge of my own future, and there's a sense of freedom with that, though. And I'm not suggesting that if everybody's struggling with money to just leave their marriage, 'cause I don't think that's the answer. But you know, when you have that power differential, and you don't feel empowered, and you're the non-monied spouse, th- there is a sense of freedom if there's other reasons also to leave your marriage, and then you do leave. It's freeing.

Jennifer Lee: It is terrifying, and then it's freeing.

Laurie James: Yes. Oh, trust me, I was terrified for years and I stayed there for years.

Jennifer Lee: It's terrifying, and then it's freeing. You know, you asked me what I've been doing, and I really should have just kind of talked about this. W-we've been doing a lot of what I'll call financial triage. Okay? So somebody is thinking about exiting a marriage, and they don't know heads or tails of what they have, right?

So we'll do some consulting for three to 12 hours- depends on what they really need, usually three to five- um, and help them understand their investments, help them understand the equity in their home, help them understand what if they get... If it's a 20-year marriage and it's in Calif- they get half of their assets, what does that look like? Where could you live? You know, and that is really taking terrified to empowered, and that's really what we try to do is give women, men- sometimes it's men, you know, nine times out of 10, it's women, it doesn't matter- the tools and the education to understand what they have. Okay? So you can go into a discussion with your attorney, a discussion with your soon-to-be ex with some education and some tools.

Laurie James: Yeah, and I think also just with the women that I work with that are going through divorce and thinking about my own divorce, that is a really hard place to be and to really wrap your head around, okay, if I do decide to leave, what's my nugget? Right? What do I end up with, and what does that look like, and where can I live? And that can really keep somebody stuck in a marriage or of like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna be okay on my own. Will I have to go into the workforce? And if you're the non-monied spouse and you haven't been working in the workforce, you can't just go and start making six figures tomorrow, right? It's just not possible. So that, you know, it takes time to build a career again, and I think that's where the non-monied spouse and the spouse that stayed home is at a disadvantage, unfortunately.

Jennifer Lee: Well, yeah, and that's where we're trying to have conversations with clients about what things are gonna look like if they do have those assets, so that when you're going in to talk to the attorney, you're prepared. You know, a lot of times people- you need a divorce coach, you need a financial person, and you need a attorney, right? And the least expensive is the divorce coach, the next least expensive is a financial advisor, and the most expensive is the attorney. So- and clients will do this. They'll just go to the attorney and emote and cry and be mad about their situation, which, okay, it's fine, but don't do that at $500 an hour.

Talk to your divorce coach, talk to a financial person, talk to your girlfriends, and get your ducks in a row so that when you walk into the attorney's office, you can say, "Okay, I am 52 years old. I've been married for 20 years. Our kids are grown. We have this much in assets. We live in this state. How much can I expect, and what can I expect?" Because you're dealing with a split of assets. You're dealing with, am I going to have alimony for life or for a period of time where I have to get myself employed? Do I have a skill set that I can, you know, reinvigorate? All those things, what does that look like?

And then when you have that tactical information, that's your point of negotiation. You're trying to get to that. And depending on, you know, whether you're able to mediate or you have to go to court- hopefully not, you know- depends on the reasonableness of your-

Laurie James: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so much of it boils down to- everything you're saying is knowledge is power, right? The more knowledge that we can gain and the more knowledgeable we can become with what's going on, 'cause most people only go through a divorce once, so it's all new. Hopefully people don't go through a divorce at all, 'cause I don't wish it on people. But if you are going through a divorce, knowledge is power, and that's where I think we become more empowered and then feel more confident to then ma- take that next step, whatever that step is for-

Jennifer Lee: You need your team to support you in this journey, right? So I have a client recently, I met her before her mediation. Her mediation was coming up. She was spinning about the assets. We looked at a worksheet of marital assets and talked about what she wanted and what she didn't, and then I did a financial plan to say, "Okay, after, if you get this, you will be okay," right? And so she had confidence going into that mediation knowing, "Okay, no, I need more," or, "No, I don't need the alimony because I'm gonna have this." And, you know, she could take a breath.

And so the mediation is over. She knows what she's getting, so we had a discussion about what is it going to look like, and she just said, "Thank you. Like, I can breathe." Uh, it was so cute. She said, "My neighbor said to me that my personality was back."

Laurie James: Yeah. Yeah. Well, from a nervous system standpoint, you're dysregulated and you're concerned about your future, and when you don't know what your future looks like, we start to shut down, right? And then when you're like, "Oh my God, okay. I'm gonna be okay. Yes, I can breathe. I can relax. I can rest a little bit. Yes, this is uncertain, and yes, this is gonna be a bumpy road going through divorce or whatever it is, but I'm gonna be okay financially." And that's a huge relief for anybody, even if they have to also adjust their lifestyle a little bit, knowing that they're gonna be okay in some fashion and that their ex is not gonna take everything away from them.

What if the person listening is the moneyed spouse or the moneyed partner? Because some of those, too, both women and men. What do you want to say to them about communicating to a non-moneyed spouse or maybe potential soon-to-be ex-spouse or ex-partner? Or maybe those are two separate questions.

Jennifer Lee: Well, let me know if I don't answer the second one. My hope is that, if you have to get divorced, it's, you know, "You used to be the love of my life, but we're just not clicking anymore, and I wish you well, and we've built these things together, and here's your half, and here's some advice on how to handle it moving forward." Like, you know, you'll have enough income if you take the Social Security, and you'll have enough income off of the assets, and you'll be okay, right? We're not gonna be together, but you'll be okay.

My hope is that the money party is emotionally intelligent enough to know that that was their person and make sure that they're okay. What the person does with it after is up to them, right? You- you line 'em up. To me, that's my conscience, right? 'Cause I am the moneyed spouse, so if I'm exiting, I'm making sure that I'm doing what is equitable and that my person is taken care of.

Laurie James: Yeah, because you spent, you know, 20, 30 years maybe more with this person.

Jennifer Lee: Right? It's mind-blowing to me how toxic, you know, divorce can be, like you said, you spent all that time with that person. So, sometimes you can get back to the root of it and get them focused and maybe have some reasonable so- I've had a couple of cases where I've helped with the division of assets with a very amicable situation where they just came and they were both my clients. They came in and they said, "Look..." Yeah, well, he said, "She wants a divorce, and here are our assets, and she's entitled to half, so how do we do this?" Right?

And we just hired a lawyer to write up the documents and then file them with the state and get a QDRO for the retirement assets, you know, in the 401(k) and transfer them. And they still talk to one another. If there's a plumbing problem, you know, she might call him for help with something. He might say, "Who was our friend that we traveled with here? You have that number?" I mean, that's the best-case scenario.

Laurie James: So I wanna just go back and touch on something for maybe somebody who's listening who might be in this position. Can you explain what a QDRO is? Just-

Jennifer Lee: Sure. Sure, so when you're dividing assets and you're looking at what you're going to divide, most things- your personal account, your IRAs, your house, things like that- can be transferred or changed, the titling, with your divorce decree. If you are splitting 401(k)s or pensions or other qualified retirement accounts that you're still employed or your spouse has an employer, those require something called a QDRO, Q-D-R-O, and it's qualified domestic relations order.

I will tell you that most attorneys who are doing divorce, hopefully, are on top of it, and if you need that, they're expediting it. I had a client that was going through divorce for seven years, and at the end she got her divorce decree, great. No QDRO, so we had to wait another six months for that. All the assets were in the pension plan and in the 401(k) at work. Crazy. So make sure if you have a spouse who's working and has retirement plans and you're taking some of those assets-

Laurie James: Yeah, 'cause-

Jennifer Lee: —advisor who will make sure that you get that.

Laurie James: Right. 'Cause that takes six months for everything to get transferred over approximately, yeah.

Jennifer Lee: You know, well, it doesn't take that long. Well, it depends on which kind of plan. If it's a pension plan, it can, but you know, if I have a QDRO and we're taking money out of your spouse's Fidelity 401(k), we can do that in a matter of a couple days. It just depends on where the assets are and what they are.

Laurie James: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for explaining that. Um, w- w- I think I-

Jennifer Lee: Sure.

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Laurie James: What if someone is using money to be controlling? 'Cause that's something that I unfortunately experienced in my marriage. And let's just say somebody is still married. We kind of touched on this before we hit record, and think this is an important thing to talk about. Do you want to-

Jennifer Lee: Y- yeah. It's tough, right? The disparity between having the money and needing the money is difficult. You know, it goes back to cartoons and George Jetson and the money, but she took all of it, or most of it. If you can't remedy that in your relationship, you're in trouble. So hopefully, you know, you're having issues around money, you go talk to a therapist or whatever and try to deal with it. I was on a call with a social worker one time, and she said to me, "Money is more intimate than sex." And I was like, "Okay, well, that's an interesting way to frame it," but it's true.

You know, when we think about- I don't know your experience, Laurie, it's probably very similar- in the divorce situations that come up, the highest number to me is your spouse is a narcissist, which probably goes along with the money and controlling part. And that's a very difficult personality to deal with, very difficult to extricate yourself and gain some control. I don't know that you're gonna stay in a marriage and get control of some money with a narcissist.

Laurie James: Yeah. But I love that statement that money is more intimate than sex. And I think for some people, not everybody, but for some people it is. Like, that is more important to them, whether they're aware of it or not.

Jennifer Lee: Well, it's so personal and individualized. I would say that a great conversation to have with somebody you just met, or even your existing spouse, or even your kids, or even your girlfriend for practice and see what their answer is, asking them about their first memory of money. Because that's gonna tell you how they think about money, right? Was it a family member that was always nervous about spending money, and, "No, we can't buy that because we don't have enough money, I have to put it over here," so they're kind of bundling it up and not using it 'cause they have fear?

Or is it somebody who gets money and gets a bonus and says, "Hey, kids, we're going out for dinner, we're going to the movies, and we're doing this, and we're spending all this money." It's gone, but there's no plan for the future. So that gives you an indication of how people think about money. And just, you go out to lunch with your girlfriends, and one's very particular about what they eat because they're looking at the prices and they're looking at what they can afford. Others are ordering lobster and drinks and whatever, "Hey, we should have a cocktail," and not even paying attention to it, and others are kinda in the middle. So it's kind of an interesting conversation to have with people, especially somebody you might be intimate with.

Laurie James: Yes, I think that is important, especially as we get older, too, because we've accumulated assets. We've accumulated retirement, hopefully some retirement money as well. Th- I think it is important, and you know, if somebody is single- I know I've experienced a little bit of this- of dating people, and are they interested in going to similar restaurants? Are they interested in traveling the same as you? Not just like what do you like to do, but can you afford to travel similarly, right? Because that plays into things, too. Or does one person make much more money than the other one, and then do you cover some of those expenses for somebody else? And if you're doing it but then feeling some resentment, it's probably not a good fit, or if somebody feels less than the other person, too.

Jennifer Lee: Or like you were saying before, it feels like they want to be cared for. It depends. You know? Hopefully you have somebody... if there's a disparity, hopefully the person who has affluency knows that, "Hey, I can cover these things. This is not a problem." I dated somebody in my early years of dating that said, "Look, you know, your income, if we add our income together, yours is a third, mine's two-thirds. So when we go to dinner, I'll pay two-thirds, you pay one-third." Right? That's a great way to look at it, right? You look at what you have and see if there's a disparity.

I think the best answer to be proactive if you're going back out into the world and dating is to know who you're trying to attract, right? So if you're trying to attract that person who is affluent and free with their assets, that's one thing. If you're trying to get somebody who is at your same level, that's another. And so, you know, a number of years ago I had this client, and he happened to be Indian. And this was just in like 1990, so it just blew my mind. He's like, "Yeah, I had an arranged marriage." I was like, "Really?"

Laurie James: Oh, yeah. I know somebody who has had a arranged marriage, too. She's still married but married in the early mid-'90s.

Jennifer Lee: It's fascinating. And what's interesting to me about the way he explained it is he said, "You know, my parents said go date," right? "Go try to find somebody. And I didn't find anybody that met what I felt my needs were. And so my parents found people who were of my same social status, had the same education, and had similar interests in art and music and whatever. And then we had a match."

And if you think about that, that's the whole Match.com thing, right? That's taking this universe of people and saying, "Okay, well, you know, you're definitely not gonna get along with Laurie because she is obsessed with baseball and you could care less about sports," right? So it's interesting to screen people that way, because when you go to a bar or you get introduced by a friend-

Laurie James: Don't know-

Jennifer Lee: —you're getting.

Laurie James: You don't. And people say, "Oh, yeah, well, my friend introduced me to this person, so they must be okay." Well, they're just friends. Like, they don't know this person on an intimate level. They don't... so a friend request, in my opinion, is not any better than meeting somebody on Match personally.

Jennifer Lee: Well, it probably is- it might be better meeting somebody on Match. It would be terrible meeting somebody in a bar 'cause you have zero knowledge-

Laurie James: At- at least you have the profile and some background.

Jennifer Lee: —if it's true, right?

Laurie James: If it's true, yes. I often say there should be a section for the ex to write their comments.

Jennifer Lee: Verified by my ex-husband.

Laurie James: Yes.

Jennifer Lee: That's comical. That would be great.

Laurie James: But somehow I don't think that would ever fly, but I do joke about that.

Jennifer Lee: Yeah.

Laurie James: So you kinda talked about the importance of meeting with a financial planner before divorce so you really get a better idea and get more comfortable and empowered with what they potentially can walk away with. What do you want to say to a listener who's on the other side of divorce? Maybe they're newly divorced. What steps do they need to take?

Jennifer Lee: Okay, so now you're on the other side. You're getting your- well, sometimes people will still be in a state of daze and paralyzed, right, from the trauma of going through the divorce, and now their assets are still in their spouse's 401(k) 'cause they haven't used- hired an advisor and gotten a QDRO and set up an IRA. That just seems like it's too much. So I think you need to partner with somebody who's gonna help you facilitate those things, okay?

And so that's what the job of the financial advisor is. It's to meet with you, get your documents, we'll get copies of the statement for your spouse's plan. We'll get you on a phone, we'll set up new accounts, we'll transfer the money, we'll make sure it's there, and then when it's there, then we advise you on how much income you can take out of it or whether you need to go file for Social Security or get a job or, you know, all of those things.

It's like a best friend who's helping you with the money, right? I mean, that's- people, clients text me all the time, "I- I don't know what this is." Okay, like, I'm not gonna panic. When you are panicking about something, I'm gonna be able to help you just, "Okay, calm. Here's what we're gonna do." And, hopefully, we've navigated you through the divorce with an awareness of what you're gonna end up with, and hopefully it's adequate for you to, you know, we just need to do it, right?

So the client I was talking about before, she's okay. Like I said, I just went over with her, said, "Okay, so you're gonna get this much in cash. You wanna buy a house. Here's the price point. We're just gonna pay cash. You're gonna have so much money in your checking account. Then we're gonna take your other money and we're gonna invest it. What kind of income do you need," right? So we talk about, what's your budget? What are your expenses? You know, it's a process. I do think that, you know, it's helpful to have some support. And I like doing it before because I don't like to leave any money on the table, so I'm gonna advocate for you to get your fair share and not take less just because your ex is pushing to have more.

Laurie James: Right. And that's, I think, the important part of having a financial person through the process. Um, they don't-

Jennifer Lee: And a lot of times people will think the attorney does that. They don't. The attorney- I mean, sadly, some of them are very empathetic, but sadly they have a job and it's to get you divorced.

Laurie James: Right.

Jennifer Lee: Right. It's not to make sure that you have... I mean, g- hopefully they're gonna make sure that you don't really get taken, but they're not there to advocate for whether you keep the house or you take the assets or which ones you choose.

Laurie James: They just want you to make a decision. To make a decision, yeah. And I think that is a real, big, important piece that people don't realize and understand as part of the process. And, you know, with the women that I've worked with that are going through a divorce, that's one thing that I really encourage them. Like, you need to understand what your financial situation is. You need to get a financial planner, preferably somebody who helps with transitions, helps you know, understands the divorce process, for sure. So as we talk about this, what's important, in your opinion, when choosing the right financial planner? I know you've touched on a few things, but if we were to put, like, what are the top three, five things that somebody should be looking for?

Jennifer Lee: It's hard 'cause there's a lot of advisors out there, and I always say, you know, I'll go into a gymnasium with 100 advisors, 'cause the competition is only 10, right? So those 10, any one of them would be adequate, and they would have skill sets of emotional intelligence. They would understand, you know, how to relate to the client and understand what their goals are. My job is not to just invest your money, it's to understand what you need to accomplish for your life, for the quality of your life, and how those assets are gonna allow you to do that. Every 100 person in there has the technical skills. We can asset allocate your accounts. We can create a strategy that generates income. Of course we do that. We do a financial plan. Um, I think it's so critical to have a relationship with this person that you can talk to them about your money.

Again, money is more intimate than sex. The- the... It's scary. A girlfriend of mine a number of years ago, she kept asking me, like, little side-hustle financial questions, and I said, "Why don't you just give me your stuff so we can talk about your whole situation?" And she got all shy. This is a good, good friend. And she goes, "I don't wanna be naked." You know, it's a scary thing to unveil everything. So you have to have enough rapport where you can go, "Ooh, but I ran up my credit card $30,000. Oh, I need to... It's 20%. I need to pay it off," right?

That's a conversation where I say, "Okay, we absolutely need to pay this off, but we also have to stop the bleeding 'cause you can't have a $30,000 credit card next year. What are we doing differently?" So, you don't always have to be naked. You can wear your pajamas. You know, we just need to know chunks of money, and we need to understand what your goals are, but, um-

Laurie James: A glass of wine with the pajamas.

Jennifer Lee: You might need a glass of wine and the pajamas, but, you know, we'll be okay. It'll be okay, I promise. It won't hurt as much as you think it will. And, you know, hopefully the advisor can help you garner some confidence, right, and know that you're okay.

Laurie James: Yeah. I think that's what I hear you saying, though. Probably because of how we were raised or our relationship with money from a very young age, there might be a little shame around how we are spending money, what we choose to prioritize. That's a little bit of what I heard in there. So, and I've had it, too. And I catch myself now, I'm like, "Why am I embarrassed?" Or, "What is coming up for me when I want to ask my financial advisor about remodeling my house?" Like, why am I having this pit in my stomach about it, right?

And I have to really look at my childhood, and my parents struggled with money. My mom was the moneyed spouse. My dad, back then, was the less money- like he didn't bring as much in as my mom did, and she was just a teacher. He was not a business person. And I just always listened to them argue about money all the time. So that still shows up. And then having a controlling spouse when it came to money, always questioning all of my purchases, that still shows up for me, and I have to work through it. But yeah.

Jennifer Lee: So I would- I would suggest have a conversation with your financial advisor about your money story. Share your money story with them, him or her, and just so they have context in how to be able to talk to you about your money, right? 'Cause if they're one of the 10 in the room, they could do that. And- and also talk about your assets as a resource, right? So you're still working, you've got assets over here. What can those assets generate without damaging the machine that is your investment account? And ask that question, and then you feel confident that, okay, well, I'm not gonna damage the machine, but it's generating, you know, X number of dollars. What do I wanna do with that?

How much do I wanna keep reinvesting, and how much can I do a renovation on my kitchen? Maybe, you know, 2025 was a good market year. Maybe your account did better than you normally do. That'd be a time to trim some-

Laurie James: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I love that advice of sharing your money story with your advisor. I think that's such wise advice. So Jennifer, as we come to a close, what's one confession or takeaway that you'd like to share with our listeners?

Jennifer Lee: Oh, I didn't prepare for a confession. You know, I've made money mistakes, too. Everybody makes them. I made a huge... my biggest money mistake was getting involved in a partnership in a business that I had no business being in. I'm still digging out of it. It's completely separate, and it gives me gray hair. So I think I want anybody to be listening to just get a little bit of financial knowledge, right? So, you referenced my book earlier. I did not write it to sell a million copies. I mean, I gave it to my clients, and-

Laurie James: Yeah.

Jennifer Lee: —to, you know, podcasters or whatever-

Laurie James: Yeah, and it's a great book. And if anybody is interested, listen, go back October of '24. It's a great conversation about leaving a legacy as another way of viewing what we want to do with our money. Keep-

Jennifer Lee: Absolutely. If you're the non-moneyed person, this is still a quick read. You will accidentally learn something about money, but it won't hurt doing it 'cause it's all stories, and I hope that it's a quick read and it's engaging. Oh, by the way, I learned something I didn't know. So it will be one little nugget in your empowerment toolbox if you can do something every month.

Laurie James: Yeah.

Jennifer Lee: That'll just kind of grow you.

Laurie James: Yeah. I love that. Thank you again for being here. How can people find you if they want to reach out to you and connect with you?

Jennifer Lee: Sure. So my website is modern, then hyphen, wealth [modern-wealth]. And I'll give you my Calendly. Like to offer if I excited somebody about something and we left them with a burning question, you can schedule a "squeeze the juice" call. No cost, no obligation. I'll answer your question. And it's just, Jennifer, Modern Wealth. You just go on Calendly and book a "squeeze the juice" call.

Laurie James: Beautiful.

Jennifer Lee: Okay.

Laurie James: And I will make sure that those links are in the show notes so you can look at the show notes and schedule that if anybody's listening. So thank you again for being here, Jennifer. Always a pleasure chatting with you.

Jennifer Lee: Thank you so much. It was fun, Laurie. Appreciate it.

Laurie James: Take care.

Laurie James: Thank you for listening to this episode of Confessions of a Free Bird. I'm grateful to be in your ears and hearts. If you're interested in becoming a Free Bird, I'd love to support you. Please check out my website at LaurieEJames.com to learn how we can work together or to sign up for my newsletter so you can receive tips on how to date and relationship differently, and ultimately find more freedom and joy in your life.

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