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So the big question is this, how are real estate investors who don't have a ton of free time, don't have access to off market deals and didn't start life on third base? How do we grow a real estate business conservatively to support our families? Finally leave the corporate rat race and build a legacy.

That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm Ed Mathews, and this is Real Estate Underground. This is the Real Estate Underground podcast show number 44. Hey everybody, Ed Mathews here with Real Estate Underground. I am really excited about today's show. With me is Joe Robert, who brings a wide variety of experiences both in the real estate world and elsewhere.

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And one of the cool things about being able to host this show is I get to meet people that are smarter than me. And know a lot of things about stuff that I would really like to know about. So Joe, I'm kind of setting you up here because I was very excited to meet you and I can't wait to learn from you.

And I'm sure our audience is also equally excited to learn from you. So welcome to the show. Thank you for your time today. Well, I appreciate it coming on the show. And as I've been getting on these shows lately, it just makes me feel a little bit old, you know, as I say, 20 years experience. Right. So thank you for having me.

You're a dinosaur.

That's okay. I got a few years on you, so we'll just call it even. I've been following you for a while and basically trying to learn the crypto world, but I know that you've got a heavy background in real estate investing, which is why I asked you to come on the show. So why don't we start there? Let's talk about your background and how you got to where you are today and let's talk about the real estate part.

Awesome. So obviously as a young kid, teenager, right? As a lot of people would say, I was not interested in the school so much, right? And so in high school, one way to get out of school was to be able to go to the tech school across the street for half a day. And so I attended the tech school for construction worker.

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During my teenage years, I ran a landscaping and construction business. And so fast forward, I graduated high school and I'm continuing to do that work. And at the age of 19, I was able to find a piece of property that needed a lot of work. It was an old farmhouse. And for all the listeners, I recommend never.

Ever repairing old properties couple hundred years old their money pits, unless you're a specialist, stay away. Yes, I'm living proof as well. And I'll tell you my story when you're done with yours. So, you know, it's old farmhouse. It also had kind of like an outbuilding. And so I was able to fix up that outbuilding, turn into apartment, move in there.

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And then I spent the 2 years or maybe a year and a half fixing up the house and then moved in that for a few months and then sold it after that 2 year mark for that tax free gain as a primary residence. And that basically started the real estate career. Wow. Nice. So mine isn't quite as successful. I was graduating from college and, and actually the gentleman who I'm, whose office I'm borrowing today, I'm on a bit of a trip looking at properties up and down the Eastern Seaboard.

His father took pity on us because we were both broke and basically cut us a deal that if we agreed to fix up his old farmhouse down on the Black River in Flemington, New Jersey, that we could live there for free and he would help us out with materials and whatnot. It was actually an incredibly generous offer.

Taking pity on these two knuckleheads, me being one of them and come to find out that that farmhouse hadn't been occupied for, I'm going to guess about 150 years and I'm exaggerating. But the other thing that I realized very quickly is that we were moving into a wildlife preserve as well, because between the snakes, the bats, the mice, the moles, the voles, and everything else that we probably didn't find, there were more animals in there than there were human beings.

Let's put it that way. So it was a very interesting two years to put that thing back together. Well, piggyback on that, we were digging up in the kitchen, that reminds me, like, we found some, I think it must have been cow or animal bones that were under that floor, and at first we're like, oh, what's this?

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Yeah. But it ended up not being humans, but thank God. Yeah. My favorite story from that old farmhouse was, I was sitting in the living room, and what I thought was a bird had flown out of like the corner of my eye. I caught something flying across the room, and I turned around, and as I turned, a bat turned on me and was flying right at me.

And I ran from that chair to the coffee table, to the top of the couch and out the front door, I don't think I ever touched the floor and screaming like a banshee, ultimately that's how I learned how to. Remove bats from old houses because I was the only one that was going to be able to do that because I was the only one home.

Yeah, first of all, I agree with you. No old houses. Yes. And for all listeners, typically the older the house, the harder it is to really budget because once you get it inside and take apart the walls, that's when you find a lot more problems. Right. And so your budget could get blown out very quickly. So definitely absolutely old farm.

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Yes. Nothing's plum. Nothing's level ever. Sure. Right. And so you can spend your entire budget just trying to make that happen. So anyway, we digress. So Joe, let's talk a little bit more about how you got into real estate. You talked about your first deal and that success when you got that win, what'd you do with it?

So at that point, and this is also growing up, as I say, like 20 plus years ago, when kind of kids were not going out, like as me, a couple of guys were doing landscape business, and this was like, you put self employed on your profile. Yeah, everyone talked about going to the nine to five. So after that deal, I started doing real estate.

I'm from the Philadelphia suburbs. And so I started doing real estate down the outer banks. And that's really because my mom had some relationships there and always went there on vacation. So she started doing some deals. So I kind of just piggybacked off of that. And that's here in the outer banks of North Carolina and was Did a multitude of different deals from small lots of division to again, some fix and flips to some lot flips.

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Right. And this was in the two thousands hour where everything was booming. Then as everyone learned the market changed very quickly, right? Overnight. Overnight, it changed. And when it comes to vacation rental areas, that turns a lot quicker usually because that's people's disposable income right there.

And they tend to then pull that back first. So if you're also thinking about investing in these. Vacation rental markets. You have to be a little bit more careful if you think we're going into recessionary times, so, you know, the real estate market changed there quickly and that kind of stopped that investment and I picked back up investing in Philadelphia rehabs because I was living locally in about 2010 ish, maybe a year or two after the crash, two years, and I was fixing and cool.

Uh, property up, and my private lender is like, oh, okay, I'm going to move my money away from here over to another deal afterward. And I was paying them 15%. I was like, what's going on? He's like, well, I found this opportunity for 18 percent and all these returns sound high, but like 10 years ago, like the deals were great.

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You were able to pay higher preferred returns and so forth where today maybe it doesn't exist as much. And so he said, I am moving it over to this company that's buying distressed residential mortgages. And that, you know, coming out of the 2000s crash, coming out of 2000s crash, I was kind of interested because it was like the opportunity to own the debt versus kind of owing the debt.

Right? Right. Turn the tables. Right. Correct. Turn the tables. And so I attended those meetings for a few months and got educated on what to do. I partnered up with somebody that was already in the business. I bought a small pool of loans. I think about 70, 000 came with a handful of different second mortgages.

And from there. My partner worked out those loans. After about six months, I had proof that it worked. I returned almost all my capital and then I decided to create more of a business out of it. So me and that guy and another partner partnered up and we started buying pools of loans for the next couple of years.

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And so when you would buy the loans, were these non performing or performing loans? So these were non performing residential second mortgages. And at that time, almost all of them were underwater. Holy risk back, man. Oh my goodness. So at first you would think, okay, who would buy this and why would you buy it?

Cause it's risky. What you don't know about every business is once you understand the risk and the actual price you need to pay, you can win the game. Right? Sure. And so I think that basically applied here where maybe we paid 10 cents on the dollar for a pool lounge. Some of them didn't work out. They filed bankruptcy, BK 13, they got discharged and we would have some that would have discounted payoffs, right?

So if they owe 50 K, we bought it for 5 K. Well, we call them up and ask for 20 or 30 K. It was a win win for the bar, win win for us. And that allow us to recover our capital faster. Fascinating. So this was more of you're buying at a severe discount and then providing the mortgagee with an opportunity to buy their way out of the situation, saving their credit, you make a little bit of money, they save a little bit of money, so everybody wins.

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Correct. It's a win win. Fascinating. Except most people sometimes don't want to respond when we try to outreach. In that case, typically, why did it work? Why does it work for us to modify these seconds and doesn't? It doesn't work for the banks is because most people don't take action until there's a gun to their head.

So therefore you have to go with the foreclosure process until there's a date in place. And that's when the bar understands that it is for real. And that's typically when they reach back out to make a modification. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Pain versus pleasure, right? People make change in their lives for one of the, one of two reasons.

And that also, yeah, and that's same as with, if you have rental properties, don't delay eviction. You have to be very serious on time or else tenants will take advantage of you. Correct. You'll teach them the wrong behaviors, right? Yes. So that goes for both sides of the real estate transaction. So one of the things I'm hearing in your story, and I kind of knew this about you just because I follow you on social media and whatnot, that you're very adept at understanding market trends and riding those waves.

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What do you look for? And I mean, how do you do that? Cause you know, I always tell my team at Clark street, we were flipping houses and then with multifamily being our longterm and as the market got really choppy here in the Northeast, we kind of dialed back our flip business and really focused on our multifamily business, which is kind of where we are now, and I'm always talking about, take what the market gives you, take what the market gives you.

Right. And so like mines. So I'm curious what you look for as you see those trends, what are the things that kind of tip you off that things are changing? When it becomes overcrowded, the train was overcrowded, the prices go up very crazy, and the conference rooms are totally filled with everybody being very excited.

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Yeah, that's the top. Now, the exuberance. Yes. Exuberance. The opposite is the opportunity, right? Less people are talking about it. It's hard to find because not enough people are talking about it and you kind of just stumble upon the opportunity. And that's what happened in most situations that over the last 20 years stumbled into these areas and then kind of understand skate to where the puck is going, right?

Right. What's going to be happening in this area and in this sector in five or 10 years? Yeah, and you know, one of the things you were talking about in terms of like the distressed second mortgage loans that were all underwater, holy cow, would my, my risk bells go off in my head. We, even when I say that is the old Warren Buffett thing, right?

Blood in the streets is when you start buying stuff up. So it's a really interesting perspective. It's a very contrarian perspective because from a human emotion perspective, a lot of the real estate investors that I meet want to ride that wave up. And they're like, well, I'm going to try and time the market.

Well, don't time the market, right? Look at trends, look at where the market is and look at where the economy is and where there are opportunities within that economy as we are today. Don't look at it like how you want it. Look at it as it is, and then figure out where you can add value, right? Whether it's.

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Underwater second mortgages or flipping houses or something else. Yeah. And for all the listeners, especially if you're getting into a new market or a new asset class, I mean, I, I have learned personally, always dip your toes in, spend six to 12 months doing a deal or two or whatever it is, because typically in that first six or 12 months is where you're most exposed to losing the most amount of money.

So don't jump in too fast. Yeah, going in head first is a mistake. Yeah, yeah. You know, in terms of real estate as an asset class versus some of the other things you do, I mean, what draws you to real estate in terms of looking at it as an opportunity to build wealth and cash flow? Everyone needs a place to live.

Right answer. Is that number one answer, right? At the end of the day, everyone needs a place to live. Maslow's hierarchy of human needs, right? Yeah, I mean, everyone needs a place to live. It's one way that you can utilize leverage properly long term and create wealth. It's kind of improving track record over time.

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So it's not something new that you're not sure is going to work. I think for most people, that's why they love real estate. It's the certainty of the history behind it. And the ability to maybe more easily be able to project where it's going in the next five years when they're doing performance where some other stuff that you may not be able to get down to as easy as real estate.

Those would be the top few there. Yeah, I would add to that that the fact is, is that you're able to affect value, right? So whether it's a single family or multifamily, there are things you can do. New roof, new windows, new kitchens, new bathrooms, new siding, paint, landscaping, whatever is tactile and things you can actively do to increase the value of a property multifamily world.

It's raising rents and figuring out ways to save money on your expenses. So you increase your NOI. And then the rest of it's just market. If cap rates are compressing, well, that's a good thing for you from a value perspective. Yes. And if interest rates are dropping, that's a really good thing for you if you're a single family investor, right?

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Now they're expanding or increasing here as we're seeing in this So, all right, that might change for people. So that's exactly where I was going. Are you interested in real estate investing right here in Connecticut? Ever wonder where all those real estate investing pros hang out to network? Did you know the Connecticut Real Estate Investors Association will introduce you to those investors and will help you learn how to find deals, fund those deals, and even teach you how to do it without leaving your current job?

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An apartment building or really any investment property. Our team will understand your deal and help you close quickly. Go to C T R E I a funding.com or call us at 8 6 0 8 7 6 0 5 7 2. I'm going to ask you to show me your tea leaves, right? Where do you see opportunity in the space now? I think it's hard to see the opportunity at the moment.

That's the truth. Fair answer. We'll back it up over the last year or 2, and you can easily see the market was topping out at some point. There's just too many people. The price has moved up too fast. Right? And when everybody preaches the same message in any industry, that usually means the top, meaning there's a supply and demand problem and everyone where there's not enough housing, right?

Everyone says that that typically is not, you know, 100 percent accurate in some capacity. Yes, but it also depends on economic conditions and a whole lot of things that those guys don't take into consideration back to the conference room. Once every conference room is filled with everyone wanting to do multi family and get rich.

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There's just it's coming to an end, whether it's today, tomorrow or in a year or 2, it's coming to the top. Right? And a lot of the gains that have been made over the last few years. And the syndicators that are able to use their annualized returns in the back for their presentations is not what's going to happen, right?

The interest rates are not going to stay that low. I mean, it was kind of all showing that it was coming to an end. I mean, that's why a lot of the stuff that we've sold in the last three years, because we just thought the prices were getting out of control. Yeah. Crazy. You know, it was crazy. I mean, they're here in Connecticut, even a building that you could buy in New Britain, Connecticut, good hard work in town, right?

Hard working people on average were paying back then it was probably 800 for a one bedroom. Now that's well over 1, 200 for one bedroom and the units you could buy for 45 K. Just, you know, you use one metric in 2018 are now 85 K same building, no updates, right? So yeah, it got a little frothy there for sure.

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And I think as we move forward, people see in the last few years. That all these markets went up a lot, and I think they have this vision that this is kind of normal and that this is what to expect. But there's been many periods of 5, 10, 20 years where real estate or apartments, they don't make this type of profit, right?

True. Because you don't have these compressed cap rates. Rent growth, inflation, everything occurring at one time. So I think people also need to tame their expectations of what might happen in the next five or ten years. Yeah, and I think you said it earlier one of the great things about real estate is that there's a long-standing track record and historical data, right?

And so typically when you see a market like this, Go as wild as it did both single family and commercial it's going to regress to the mean at some point. And I think we're starting to see that now. Right. And so I don't know that it's going to crash. I'm not seeing that. And neither are the people that you look at those conference rooms, right?

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You look at black rock and Goldman Sachs and, and bank of America, you know, none of them are really talking about a hard crash. But they are talking about a correction and the good news is the correction is on where it is today, not the historical number. So, okay, so if you've made 44%, go with your number, right?

44 percent and the market corrects 10%. You're still doing really well, right? Correct. And it's just a matter of managing that and understanding your expectations or managing your expectations. And a lot of these markets are going to see 10 to 20, some 30 percent corrections. But as we mentioned, if it went up 50 percent in the 24 months, you're still above COVID price, even if it corrects that much.

Absolutely. And so in the rental world, the way you protect against that is cash flow. And in the flipping and wholesaling world, the way you protect against that is you have to buy it well in the first place, right? And have a plan A, a plan B, and a plan C. I would say buy well should go across every deal you ever purchase, right?

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Absolutely. Fair point. Yep. But definitely on the flipping, because it's short term and so forth, and there is not a lack of cash flow, you got to underrate properly. Yeah. So you've been doing this for quite some time and I'm sure you've rubbed elbows with a whole bunch of real estate investors over the years like I have.

From your perspective, what do you see as the difference between someone who succeeds and is crushing it like you versus someone who's struggling and trying to fist fight their way through career? There's a few different buckets. One is, You need deal flow. And so typically if you're going to do direct marketing or kind of start in that wholesaling bucket, cause a lot of people kind of attempt at that.

Most people are not good at marketing. And so they struggle to actually get deal flow through this wholesale thing. I think it's way better just to go and partner up with the right brokers. At least initially before you do your direct marketing, unless you're an expert in that area, obviously go and do that.

But if you're not picking market that you're familiar with closest to your home, something you could drive by in a day's time that you know the back of your hand, because this is going to make it a lot easier versus trying to do something remote, trying to go far, trying to deal with contractors or anything like that.

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That could be, I think that's better after you have experience. So meet brokers. One of the things that have worked the best for me over the years has been networking. 15 years ago, I would go to the local REIA meetings, right? Go to the local meetups. I meet everybody. I've gotten private lenders there.

I've gotten deals there. The best way to start Zoom works, but there's nothing better than being in person at those local meetings, at least to get your start. So true. One, another aspect focus, right? I like to say a million ways to make a million dollars, right? You just need to pick one focus on a short term.

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So if you want to pick that residential aspect or a small multifamily or whatever it is locally, focus in that area, it'll help you with your broker relationships. It will help with finding the right private lender and make it much easier to execute your first deals. You know, having some patience. In the game for a deal and not jumping at deals, meaning just because you underwrite 1 or 2 deals doesn't mean it's a great deal to buy.

You should underwrite 10, 20, 30, 40, because then you'll most likely find that your initial underwriting was not that great and you would not have bought that property. Yeah, a little too optimistic perhaps. A little too optimistic and on the beginning side, I think a lot of people do. They try to make the contractor numbers work and Excel sheet so they can make it a deal.

But at the end of the day, the contractor cost is actually way greater than what they put in the Excel sheet. And so finding the right contractors is pretty hard. Definitely one of the hardest parts of the deal and getting the proper estimates up front and don't try to tweak those estimates to fit your Excel model to make a deal.

Right? Right, which I think we've all been guilty of at some point in our careers. Right? Of course. Of course. Yeah. It only works at 30K. I need someone to do 30K. Yeah. We were talking to a wholesaler and he kept sending me these deals and he's like, it was the single family deals and he's like, this one only needs 30K.

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I'm like, in Northeast Connecticut, you say it needs a kitchen, two bathrooms, a roof, and new flooring. Okay. A guy that I would hire wouldn't find his car keys. For 30, 000, let alone do the whole job for that, and even the supplies today might be 30 K in today's price, right? And that's exactly where I was going, right?

I mean, just flooring alone is probably half that. So you really got to watch your numbers. You really got to pay attention to material costs. You're spot on there, Joe. Well, I had partners, right? I mean, partners can be a good and a bad thing, but also a money guy could be a partner. One of my early, early deals, I partnered with a guy where he actually, I had enough trust, but he put the money out, but it was actually in his name, the project.

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And I forget so long ago, but maybe I got like 30 percent of the deal, right? Yep. But then I worked my way up to where you go from giving up a lot of the deal to owning a lot of the deal later on as your career goes on. Experience, credibility, all that, right? Right. The other great thing about having partners or advisors even is it prevents you from falling into that confirmation bias trap, trying to shoehorn in contractor costs into a project so that the numbers work for the overall deal.

So yeah, I couldn't agree more. It seems like you've worked with a lot. In fact, you have worked with a lot of different professionals and had partners and I assume mentors. And one of the things that I'm a huge proponent of is finding a mentor, whether that's something someone informal that you have a cup of coffee with every month or so, or, you know, a coaching program or somewhere in between.

And so I'm curious about the mentors you've had in your life and what was the best advice you got from one of those people and who gave it to you? So I've had some guys that mostly along the way that I would say work with otherwise in the business, they're doing deals. I'm probably not the one that say I've had a lot of mentors in life.

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I kind of am the guy who probably just goes and does it and learns the hard way. Okay. Bumps your head and figures it out, right? More often than not, right? So it is possible to lose money on deals, which obviously if you're in the game long enough, you should not, if I ever heard anyone say they didn't lose money, then I wouldn't believe them.

Right. But I would say some of the probably best feedback that I've gotten from other person is managing just cashflow and not over leveraging, right? I mean, that's really where most people blow up at the end of the day is in that capacity. And for those out there, overleveraging meaning going into depth too deep.

Right, that your cashflow can't support the exactly exactly a monthly not or maybe you are exposed to too many rehabs at one time and the market shifts and now you're kind of underwater. You can't get out of that. That fair point. One of the things that I always come across when I meet guys like you is you're voracious in terms of your information intake.

And so I always say leaders are readers. But, you know, not everybody reads these days, right? Between Audible and audiobooks and podcasts and, you know, obviously traditional books. How do you consume information? And what are some of the things that you're paying attention to these days? I love YouTube.

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Yeah. I mean, it's YouTube is the new college that's free, right? I mean, literally is you could pull it up, look it up and kind of get forward. Now, obviously a lot of times you could get to a certain elevation or certain point with some of these things and you need actual real world experience to get to another level.

And then there's even like a really higher level where you may need that mentor expertise that That can kind of look over and see what you're doing wrong and then take you even higher. But I definitely probably go to YouTube or meet other people really, you know, networking with other people has always been, it's free, right?

I mean, think about it. I mean, I literally learned how to build a new construction home watching a 13 step series on YouTube, right? And realized, wow, it's not that different from flipping. Okay. Now I'm comfortable and let's go try our first project. And it turned out okay. So it's amazing what you can learn on YouTube.

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It's absolutely amazing. Yeah. And that also, so you got the YouTube. Yeah. And we mentioned the partners, right? Like if you don't feel comfortable from in some capacity, right. Find someone that's done it, partner up, ask them what they want as equity and give them whatever they want and do the deal. And this way you get the experience from it and you move on.

You could do another one yourself. Right. Yeah. And it's amazing that people get hung up on, well, I don't want to give up that much of the deal. Well, I mean, here's the thing. I will take 10 percent of any deal rather than 0 percent of that deal, right? Of not being able to do that deal all day, every day.

And it's usually not 10%. It's usually 20, 30, 40 percent that you can get from working with somebody who is more experienced than you. And that's 20, 30 percent for everyone listening could lead to relationships. That is a lot more in the future than that initial zero, where then you have relationships.

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's important. Yeah, cause that partner opens up their network of people and now they're plumber and they're electrician and they're HVAC guy and they're framer and they're landscaper, right? And so eventually they become part of your team as well, right? Yeah, so I'm dying to ask you about the crypto.

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So we're gonna go here. All right One of the things that i'm curious about is your take on the blockchain in more specifically not necessarily crypto And the real estate world and how you know, I know you've started to take your business You're your focus to the blockchain world. And so i'm curious What drew you in there and what do you see for our future?

Again, I'm asking you for your tea leaves. Well, not coming from the technology side and only real estate. It was like 2017 that I met people in the crypto space. And so obviously I was kind of intrigued there. Because I haven't had any exposure. And if you notice what we do every day, we're on a computer, we're on zoom, we're on a phone, everything's technology based.

Every company you touch today is applying technology, right? So ultimately it's just what's happening and what's going to happen in the future. So understanding blockchain, general ledger, technology, digitalization, really, I like to say it's a digitization of kind of a lot of assets in the future. Yeah.

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And so for real estate. If you want to go there on specifically is that people will tokenize the PPM or the offering or large funds and allow that at some point to be freely traded and maybe they can have longer 1020 or duration funds because they don't have to worry about early LPs needing liquidity in a three to five year period because now freely trades and that's just one capacity.

Crypto, there's Web3, there's NFTs, there's just so much more. And maybe one example here I like to use is Airbnb, right? You put a property on Airbnb, you get reviews on the property. Guess what? You go over to Vrbo, put the same property over there, you gotta start new with reviews. Right. Why don't you own the reviews to your property?

And so Web 3 is also about you taking ownership back. And so if you had the capacity of an application where the property had the reviews, but it can move around to these different sites, and you owned it because that's your property, that's kind of where we'd like to go with Web 3. Fascinating. And it's interesting.

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I come from the technology world and I hadn't even, I guess I've been out of the game too long. Um, but the whole idea of being able to take your customer experiences and how they speak about you behind your back. Right. Uh, and be able to take that with you on any platform is really interesting and unique.

I mean, I think Google has started to kind of do that because you always see people's websites in terms of their Google reviews, but even those are company specific. Correct. And it's way broader, but we'll see it, you know, and just for everyone listening here, this is a 10, 20 year evolution. This is not a today, tomorrow thing, right?

This is technology. Software takes time to build. Things don't usually happen for five to 10 years. And so you, you have to be patient in what is being built out there. Right. It's a journey and we're on step number four on a 3000 step journey. So, right, correct. Yeah. So Joe, this has been fascinating. I've really enjoyed speaking with you today.

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When you're not. Saving the world from blockchain or investing in real estate. What else do you like to do? I cycle on the road a few days a week. Whenever I get over to the beach, I go kiteboarding. I guess I hang out with my kids occasionally, you know, I take them over to the go kart place. That's awesome.

Yeah. That's probably about it. Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot. And if people want to get in touch with you and learn more about you and your business, what's the best way to do that? Yeah. If you would like anything on the technology side and more about digital assets and where that is going, they can go to joerobert.com and subscribe to our weekly free newsletter. If they would like to learn more about our investment side, go to robertventures. com. If you're accredited, you could always book a call and discuss anything you'd like with me directly. Excellent. Well, Joe Robert, thank you so much for your time today. It's really good to see you, my friend, and thank you for educating me and the rest of our audience.

Thank you for having me on, Ed.

[00:31:00]

This has been the Real Estate Underground Podcast, a C. T. Rhea presentation. Don't forget to rate, subscribe, and share this podcast with your friends. If there's a specific topic you want us to cover, post it in the comments. For more information on the real estate underground podcast or CT Ria, go to realestateundergroundpodcast.com or CTreia. com. Until next time, happy investing.