Ed Mathews 0:05

So the big question is this how are real estate investors who don't have a ton of free time, don't have access to off market deals and didn't start life on third base, how do we grow a real estate business conservatively to support our families, finally leave the corporate rat race and build a legacy? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm Ed Matthews and this is Real Estate Underground. This is the Real Estate Underground podcast show number 86. Greetings and salutations real estate undergrouders. This is Ed Matthews with the Real Estate Underground. Thank you so much for joining us today. Today is a really interesting conversation with a gentleman by the name of Bud Evans. Bud, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure to be here.

Bud Evans 0:53

Ed, Thank you very much for having me.

Ed Mathews 0:55

So, bud, you have an interesting background and, kind of a circuitous way, a path to how you got to where you are today, which is really, really impressive. I'm going to make you tell all the stories you just told me offline, but for those folks out there that aren't necessarily familiar with you, why don't you just tell them about your background and who you are and how you got here?

Bud Evans 1:19

Sure thing, ed. Thank you. So I'm from Philadelphia, pennsylvania, originally. After high school I went into the United States military. That was 1987. I did that for several years, became a police officer in 1993. Did that for 13. They hit the towers. I went back in after being deployed a few times and I finished my service with over 34 years I am the former mayor of Cinnamon's in New Jersey. I'm a real estate investor and a licensed agent. I have primarily properties in New Jersey and Pittsburgh. I have single family homes and commercial multifamily properties as well. I was a real estate investment coach for about two years for Tariq Al Moussa from HGTV, where I specialized in the BRR method, commercial multifamily analysis, property management and velocity and infinite banking methods. I've underwritten about a little bit more than a hundred million in deals at this point and I've created a personal real estate portfolio of several million dollars myself. I'm the president of AMI properties. We own eight subordinate properties, ranging from single family properties through property management and out to hair salons.

Ed Mathews 2:27

Wow, really All right. Yeah, that's awesome Cash cows right.

Bud Evans 2:32

Yeah, right. Well, my wife is a hairstylist, so it just seemed like a natural fit.

Ed Mathews 2:38

Well played, sir. Exactly, well played Well. Thank you for joining us. One of the things that's interesting about your background is a lot of people, a lot of investors, that I speak with on the show. They're typically focused on one asset class, but one of the things that I learned as I was stalking you on social media was that you tend to be more deal driven than necessarily asset driven. So I'm curious, first and foremost, what treat a real estate, given your career of service, thank you again for serving both your community and your country, so we're all grateful for that.

Ed Mathews 3:21

Thank you In terms of real estate. How did you pick real estate as a place to be your next act after you left service?

Bud Evans 3:32

There's a really funny story behind that. Okay, so I transitioned positions from a it was Air Force Forces Subordination, just strategic planning type of position, and when I transitioned from that into an RPA unit RPA is remotely piloted aircraft, or as you guys call them, drones I made that transition from one to another and when I did, I found myself in Cinnamon, new Jersey, which is where I currently reside. My goal has always been to make a place better than when I got there, so I saw some value add that I could provide within Cinnamon's and Township Committee, so I decided to run for local office. I had no idea that I wasn't allowed to do that. I even went to the JAG and asked them hey, am I allowed to run for local office? And they said sure. And I said, great, can you sign this letter saying that I'm allowed to run for local office? I had two JAGs and my commander all signed off and I ran for committee and the next thing I knew I was the mayor.

Bud Evans 4:28

Fast forward a year and a half and they come back and they go hey, yeah, you were never allowed to run for mayor. Well, so I wound up resigning on a Friday and making it official on a Monday in July of 2018. So I was on a committee for about a year and a half and I did some good things. I was very happy with my progress. But the one thing that I really enjoyed while I was the mayor was economic development and basically building and planning and zoning. So what I found was that we put up a legal store. We put up, we redid a supermarket into a storage facility. We had an over 55 community, raised seven buildings at one time, opened up a couple of pad sites. We balanced the budget so well that for the five years after I left, we didn't raise property taxes in Cinnamon.

Ed Mathews 5:19

It's in New.

Bud Evans 5:19

Jersey, in New Jersey, right. So I was very happy with how we did there and oh, by the way, the guys that followed me into those positions are outstanding people and they just continued to do the job that I had already started. I took over for some fine people as well. Well, that economic development process and all of that building stuff, all of that real estate stuff. I saw the value that I could get from that, and when they made me resign, I was like, well, there's 40 to 50 hours of my life back. Why don't I get into real estate? So guess what I started? I jumped in with both feet and then, yeah, so that's how I got started in real estate, and there's a story behind that and the progress from that point on.

Ed Mathews 6:06

Okay, so I'm going to make you tell that story in a second. So, in terms of asset classes, when you look at a single family home or a multi-family, a commercial multi-family, or even a hair salon for that matter, I'm curious what are you looking for? What kind of peaks your interest as an investor?

Bud Evans 6:26

Yeah, two things cash flow and appreciation Right which?

Ed Mathews 6:30

one's more important to you.

Bud Evans 6:31

Cash flow? Okay, cash flow. I will tell you that I hold them in equal value. But I won't take a property that's only going to appreciate if I'm not getting some sort of cash flow from it. I'll tell you that right now. If I can find an asset where Bud's Big Six is covered that's Roof, windows, foundation, plumbing, electric and HVAC if all six of those things are in good repair, I'll pick up a property if it's cash flowing $100, knowing that in three or four years rents will raise somewhere between 5% and 10% per year 25% increase over five years and I know that I'm cash flowing at that point. Quite well, as long as that property is going to appreciate somewhere between 8% and 12% 8% and 12% over that five-year span or per year.

Bud Evans 7:21

Yeah, no, we're looking pretty much like over 5% is considered outstanding. Usually, if I'm looking at those properties that are only going to cash flow about $100 per year to start then we're looking at better than five. It's most likely. Well, in Pittsburgh, in the area that I'm currently investing in, we're hitting that 8 to 12 mark every year.

Ed Mathews 7:38

Wow, no kidding. And is that something since 2018, 19, 20, 21 were blockbuster years, right, and 18 was starting to be a great year. Yeah, I'm curious. What you're seeing in terms of appreciation these days, as we're kind of looming over a recession, is potentially looming over our world.

Bud Evans 8:00

Yeah, pittsburgh, we're still looking at double-digit returns. Appreciation is going to flatten. We're still going to be looking at that 3% to 5% hopefully in that area In South Jersey, not North Jersey. North Jersey I think they're going to level off and start to peter out a little bit because of Manhattan. But the overall I see the return still in South Jersey going and they might level off a little bit in the fact that they'll probably only appreciate at 2% to 5%. And I say that simply for this reason.

Bud Evans 8:34

I'm still seeing them licensed into Jersey. I still see three to seven days on the market on an average sale. I just had a flip that went in a negative 27 days, I'm sorry, negative 18 days. So I'm allowed to list the property as coming soon for 21 days in New Jersey. And on day one I had a realtor reach out to me and ask me flat out hey, if I give you a contract, can I tour that home before before you put it on the market? And I said what are you looking for? And they said 10,000 over ask. I said see you tomorrow.

Ed Mathews 9:09

Right, yeah, so I had a similar experience. It was about a year and a half ago, but we bought this house out of foreclosure and this was when I was flipping and bought it for $118,000, put about 130 into it. It was a gigantic house, it was like 4,800 square feet and go to put it on the market at, I think, $799. And no $7.59, as a matter of fact. And same thing happened. Somebody came up we did a coming soon and somebody came up and said what'll it take to not put this on the market? And I gave them a crazy number and they went done, done and the rest is history. So it's yeah, it was crazy.

Ed Mathews 9:59

We stopped flipping, not because of the market, it was just a matter of focus for us. I saw multi-family as the company's future. So there's only a finite amount of time that we're blessed with, so I chose to use it to just do multi, because I have a profound case of entrepreneurial ADD the shiny object syndrome in the periphery so I have to actively keep myself from doing that, and so stopping flipping was one of those things. So all right. So now I'm going to make you tell that second story.

Bud Evans 10:35

Yeah, so crazy enough. So here I did, I got out of and I was like, all right, I got to find a mentor. So there was a guy that I knew, who he was literally living. He was making $10,000 on three buildings, that was it. So I asked him hey, will you mentor me? And he gave me some advice and nothing in depth, no documents. Hey, research something this way or that way. It was just hey, go to these two websites and just make offers on just about everything. And it was, and I'm just going to put them out there Hubsu and Auctioncom, oh yeah, right. So here I am, putting in offer after offer after offer, auction after auction after auction. I've bought stuff on eBay before I can do this, right? So from literally August through September two full months, so right after I left in mid July, so right before August started up through September 25th I was putting in, just going to auction after auction after auction, putting down like a 3,000 hold on this one, a 3,000 hold on that one, a 3,000 hold on that one Never met a reserve, had over 130 wins, with no buildings to show for it. Right, it was bad.

Bud Evans 11:44

So then I was working overnight, we did a 24-7, 365 mission. And here I was at 2 o'clock in the morning and I looked up on television and I saw this ad 2 o'clock in the morning text this number to this for this and real estate will be in your area on this date and it's a very large organization. So I wrote the number on my phone. No phones where I worked. I worked in a windowless room, so I wrote it down on my hand. I walked outside, I said I'll be right back. I walked outside, I texted the number and the next thing I knew I was in a two-hour course and I brought my son and I said hey, whatever happens, do not let me buy anything Right Before I leave this room.

Ed Mathews 12:22

Here's my wallet. Do not give it back to me.

Bud Evans 12:24

Right An hour and 30 minutes later, my son. He's 31 now. It's only four years ago, so he was 27 at the time, 26, 27. He taps me on the shoulder. He goes yo, you're doing this right. I'm like there goes my anchor Right.

Bud Evans 12:40

Right, so the next thing, I knew I'm jumping into this mentorship program and that happened at the end of September of 2018. But October of 2018, I went through three days of what they call a full immersion course, where they go through how to source a deal. What a rehab looks like. You hop on a bus, you go check out some flips and then you jump back in and they go through the finished stuff and then you're gone and the next day I closed my first house. Wow, yep. Then January, we started that flip. By the end of January, I had two more rentals behind it. At the end of year number two, I had 10 whole sales, 30 flips and 21 rental properties. At the end of year four, we doubled it. I went up picking up 30 doors last year in 2022, which was not a great year for me, but still.

Ed Mathews 13:32

But it's interesting you say that because Jersey, I'm in Connecticut and there's similar markets, not a lot of inventory out there. So yeah, so, and I know from a realtor perspective the MLS used to be a target rich environment. I had very close relationships with all the Rio agents in the area and those have since dried up. So how are you driving deal flip?

Bud Evans 14:00

I'll tell you, and this is what I tell my students I can get you to seven digits if you just source wholesalers and agents and have them bring you off market deals. That's it. And if you really want to go and you want to make eight digits, then you need to start doing your own marketing and we take them through three levels of marketing. And what's good for the neighborhood, what's good for the zip code, what's good for the county, and we go that way with it. But with little to no money out of pocket you can just start making phone calls and get on a bunch of lists and check out Facebook Marketplace and check out Greg's list, and start reaching out to people and have deals come across your desk and learn how to source them very rapidly and make offers before anybody else.

Ed Mathews 14:50

Wow, that's amazing. And so, just out of curiosity, how many doors do you have today? 50.

Bud Evans 14:58

In five years. Four, yeah, but yeah, wow rats. January of 2023 was exactly four years that we started, from our first flip till now.

Collaboration, Joint Ventures, and Property Management

Ed Mathews 15:10

Wow, I used the term earlier, but if you're going to be a bear, might as well be a grizzly, right? Yeah, that's awesome, congrats. So where are you taking the business next? I mean, what's the next sale to take?

Bud Evans 15:21

So a couple of different things. First and foremost, we've scaled back a lot. We were doing direct to seller and now there's really no reason there are. I know that there is a scarcity in the market, but for some reason, I don't know why, I still get six deals that cross my desk every day from quality wholesalers. I'm still getting three or four phone calls from an agent who's got a pocket listing and I'm providing them to my clients, my students, my network, getting maybe a little taste of the fees that they're getting, cherry picking the ones that I want, keeping those, yeah, and then giving back by teaching others how to do what I did.

Ed Mathews 16:32

Yeah, and one of the things that drives you, I know, and also drives me, is it's a big world out there. If somebody else gets theirs, it's okay. You can celebrate that. You don't have to worry about saying, man, I should have done this or I should have done that to get that deal. Somebody once said I think it was Robert Kiyosaki said the deal of the century comes by just about once a month. Right, yeah, so you know, it's a tremendous feeling to not only win yourself but help other people win as well. So thank you for that.

Bud Evans 17:07

Yeah, ed, I fully believe in collaboration over competition, Me too. So tell me more about that. Yeah, so it's funny. But my friend Yasser we call him the property captain because he's an actual Delta Airlines pilot, right, so he's a captain and he is in the next county over. So I work Mercer Burlington in Camden County part of Camden County, not Camden City, by the way, in case anybody's listening from the area, because it's the death capital of the world those three counties and he works literally Camden and Gloucester County down in South, a little bit farther south for me, and we are sourcing deals and as we're doing that, I'm picking up the phone and going Yo, yasser, did you see this one? I think this one is right up your alley. Or he'll pick up the phone and call me and go hey, dude, roland just called me and he's got this six unit and I know you're making that transition to multifamily. Do you want this? You know, and it works out very well.

Ed Mathews 18:03

It's great. Yeah, I mean I've got a group of folks that we work with. Actually, one of the guys who actually organized it, dave DeVito, calls it the Fab Five, and same thing. Right, we're looking at apartment buildings, but we're all. I'm focused in Connecticut and Kentucky and Carolinas. And one of my other colleagues, chris Moran, he's focused on Indiana. And Margaret Kozlowski, she's raising money for built to rent communities, so it's a really good fit. And Brendan Chisholm is down in South Carolina, so, and Dave is kind of the facilitator and he's a heavy hitter broker here in Connecticut. So, yeah, it's just a good fit.

Ed Mathews 18:52

So we all get together and we, you know, I'll pick up the phone. Hey, man, did you see that 57 unit in wherever that? You know, a guy from Marcus Milchap throws my way, and it's great to have that collaboration because I'm very careful about confirmation bias. So the other value out of that is hey, I'm seeing this, are you seeing the same thing? And, you know, shoot holes in it. No pride or authorship. I want to know what you think and that's really valuable in all respects.

Bud Evans 19:32

Yeah, actually I just threw together a blog on how to double your property inventory in a short period of time, and it basically comes down to working with others and leveraging other people and having them put their money to work in your deals so that you can both prosper.

Ed Mathews 19:54

Yeah, so what kind of structures are you using when you're working with other investors, like joint ventures, syndication, like how does that work for you?

Bud Evans 20:02

Yeah, so I am a limited partner in a couple of deals. I don't include them in my personal portfolio, but you know they are. The 50 doors that I have are either individually owned by me or they are partnerships or JVs. So we have four companies, two partnerships and one joint venture, Gotcha.

Ed Mathews 20:22

Okay, interesting. And so you know when you're engaging with a partner. You know, one of the things I'm always interested in is how people find their partners right, and you know I liken it to dating and getting married. Right? Yeah, I want to date first, right, I want to at least know that you and I are compatible. So you know what's the process you go through to vet or to figure out if you know a partner is a good fit for what you're looking to do.

Bud Evans 20:52

Yeah, it's funny. I just referred to my operating agreement as a pre-nup.

Bud Evans 20:56

Really that's what it is. Yeah, it's pretty good. When you're using the exact same analogy I just literally used about an hour ago, I may borrow that that's great. Yeah, it's absolutely perfect.

Bud Evans 21:09

So what we were talking about was when you're getting into these joint ventures, these partnerships, and you're throwing these LLCs together and you're using your operating agreement, your operating agreement should not just specify hey, this is the best possible case scenario, this is what's going to happen. Right, it should be hey, in the case of the best case scenario, we do this and this and we hold it for 30 years, or whatever the case may be. You know, we hold it for five years, we sell it and you know, split the profits evenly, or however you're going to deal with it. But it should also spell hey, if we lose our shirts on this deal, you know we just shake hands and go off in our own separate ways. Capital call be damned and we go right, whatever the case, you know.

Bud Evans 21:50

However, you want to structure that thing Right, and here are my four points to a good deal, a good partnership, right. When you spell it out, the contract should basically have three things. So, three things First, the number's got to work Right. Both parties have to agree to it and it's got to be legal, right yeah?

Ed Mathews 22:13

That's it. Yeah, that's not that bad. That's not that bad.

Bud Evans 22:16

Right, figure it out. Whatever you want this to say. If you want this to say sure, in four years, partner A is going to get 10%, partner B is going to get 2%. You're going to split the proceeds in that percentage and then you're going to walk out the door. Great, no problem. Do the numbers work for him? Do the numbers work for me? Great, is there a contract?

Ed Mathews 22:36

Absolutely.

Bud Evans 22:38

Are we both going to sign it? Absolutely Terrific. Let's go Right on.

Ed Mathews 22:43

So tell me about your team when you are running your 50 doors. Do you have your property management in-house or do you outsource it?

Bud Evans 22:55

Yeah, we're vertically integrating right now and it's painful?

Ed Mathews 22:59

Yeah, it is absolutely painful that last year, and I'm three inches shorter from it.

Bud Evans 23:05

Exactly. It's funny. We finally found the system that we want to use, the structure that we want to use. We've got the back office software set up and the phone lines are ready to go and all of the ACH payments software and all that kind of stuff, and we're ready to go with it. And now we're in the process of downloading the Excel spreadsheet from the former property manager and then uploading it into ours, and we've got less than three weeks to do it. And then we just had to bring somebody in who is a specialist in this particular program that we're using. Oh, granted, look, it's virtual and it's literally one day a week, so it's not really that expensive. It's actually quite cost effective to use a virtual assistant who's a part-time employee, whether they're making $25 an hour and they're working four hours on a Friday and your books are straight, yep.

Ed Mathews 23:56

Bring it on. Absolutely yeah, we do the exact same thing. We do the same thing with virtual assistants that do everything from property management interacting with our residents to investor relations, to social media websites, search engine optimization. I've got somebody that helps with helping me brainstorm and create content. We've got an acquisitions person transaction coordinator, and they are all living 8,000 miles away, yeah, and they're amazing, Every single one of them is my transactions coordinator is in Kansas City.

Bud Evans 24:29

It was a very tense day in January when the Eagles lost Super Bowl to the Kansas City team.

Ed Mathews 24:33

I know that was painful.

Bud Evans 24:34

Yeah, yeah, so I did not talk to Amber for a week.

Ed Mathews 24:39

Yeah, it's okay. You get time heals, it's all right. Yeah, it's all good, yeah, but in fairness, you guys are stacked and now you've got your quarterback in the future. So Jalen Hurts, that kid is a class act and he's a heck of a football player.

Bud Evans 24:55

Yeah, don't tell anybody yet, but I went to Penn State. I'm a master's from there. I'm a Penn State football fan, but I'm also an Oklahoma Sooners fan, right yeah. I've been following them since Sam Bradford when they won the national championship. I've got a friend of mine who lives in OKC Okay.

Ed Mathews 25:10

Yeah, it's okay to have double allegiance, it's fine.

Bud Evans 25:14

I know they'll never meet because Oklahoma's not good enough to make it to the NCAA playoffs anyway. Ouch, yeah, Actually this year they might it's top 12 now. Right yeah, they look good.

Leadership and Learning in Real Estate

Ed Mathews 25:24

We'll see, we'll see. I think that's something in terms of you know, you're obviously a mentor, you have a mentoring program and you help a whole bunch of people kind of get to where they want to go. I'm curious about your mentors over the years yeah, you mentioned one of them but I'm curious about the advice that they've given you. What is the best advice you ever got from someone in your life, and who was that person?

Bud Evans 25:49

Yeah, you know that's a great question. I got to ponder that for a couple of seconds. Honestly, I've had some really great ones and I've had some not really great ones, you know. So I've seen the entire spectrum. The best leader I've ever worked with was Lieutenant Colonel Mark Waller. So, when it comes down to leadership, it was provide the strategic vision and let your guys do it, you know, and they'll surprise you. Take care of your people and the people will take care of the mission, was what he said him, Lieutenant Colonel Waller and Lieutenant now general Chip Eisler. Same basic leadership philosophy. I'm going to hold you accountable, but this is what I need. I'm not going to tell you how to do it. Go figure it out.

Ed Mathews 26:34

Right.

Bud Evans 26:35

These are the requirements, these are the key performance indicators. So that's that's how I ran my program, the within real estate. Laura Fine out of Pittsburgh was really kind of the first person, the first mentor that I had in real estate, who was like what are you worried about? You got this Right, you know what. And now I've kind of taken that approach. I've actually got a YouTube short out where the entire conversation is OK, make the offer. Ok, make the offer, and that's that was all you said.

Bud Evans 27:14

Up an entire conversation, yeah, the entirety of our conversation. For one of my students first short term rentals by a lake out in Minnesota was great, ok, did you do the work? Great, make the offer, yeah. But he said, yeah, it doesn't matter what the the did you do the work? Yes, then make the offer. She got the house. She just finished it.

Ed Mathews 27:34

Oh, that's great.

Bud Evans 27:35

Yeah, yeah, it was absolutely awesome.

Ed Mathews 27:38

So you know, my, my story is that in 2008 I read the rich dad, poor dad, and it fundamentally changed my life. Yeah, years later, because it took me three years to get over the fear and of uncertainty and a pull in that trigger, and you know, I had a short version of a very long story. Amy Rio is a realtor here, a broker now in Central Connecticut, and you know, when I knew her, she had, you know, four or five agents and now she's gigantic. But so she, bless her heart, she took me to no less than 20 properties and I always found a reason not to want it Right, and it was, you know, at that point it was 2010 into 11.

Ed Mathews 28:21

And you know, on the 21st house, right, it was a four family on Clark Street, hence the name, the name the. She, you know, was a four family, it was for 99,000 bucks, it was a deal and a half and you know it was in really good shape. It was a. Somebody had acquired it and was trying to update it and flip it and ran out of money for whatever reason. And so, you know, I was scooping it up and I came out like, well, and she, she took a pen and clicked it and put a contract down on the hood of my car and she said sign the F in contract or never call me again. And you know I'm six four, I was, I'm the legitimate foot taller than her right. And she scared the living daylights out of me and I took, I very quietly took the pen and scrolled my name on it and you know I still own that property today. So, thank you, anywhere you are.

Ed Mathews 29:20

But, but yeah, I mean it's great, make the, you know, make the offer was really hard for me and so I'm glad I'm not alone. I know I'm not alone because you know it's a lot of responsibility. I tell people, you know, my handshake is on every contract, because if you're not, if you don't, you know, if you aren't going into this, into each property, a little bit nervous, you don't understand the magnitude of the responsibility you're taking on, right. So you know, pay attention to that. But you know, you put the business systems in place, put the team in place and and you manage it right. Yeah, so that's the process, exactly, exactly, right.

Bud Evans 29:59

And I'm on stage, you know, speaking 2013,. I was in Afghanistan. We were getting rocketed, mortared, shot at, you know, constantly. I went up losing four guys in a plane crash. It was, it was absolute insanity. I came home that August, fast forward years later, I signed that first contract. I was shaking more, signing that contract, than I ever was under attack. Yeah Right, and it's just. For whatever reason? I was confident in my capabilities in combat, but for whatever reason, I was scared to death here, man.

Ed Mathews 30:39

Yeah, I hear you, that's amazing. That reminds me of a commercial that this guy was interviewing, obviously a veteran, and you know it's flashing back to him in service in a combat situation, and you know the guy behind the desk fast forward to the present. And the guy behind the desk says, can you handle stress? And the kid looked at him and went, yeah, I can handle stress. So, yeah, it's pretty, pretty, pretty interesting. Wow, it's, yeah, it's amazing. What will freak out that caveman brain of ours, right, yeah, yeah.

Ed Mathews 31:20

So I'm curious. You know leaders tend to be readers and you know, obviously you've accomplished a lot in a really short period of time and I imagine that not only do you have mentors, but you probably also take in a lot of information over the course of a day or a week. So you know it used to be that. You know tactile books were the. You know where. I used to have a stack of these on my nightstand, and now I just have an iPhone or an iPad full of books. So you know, I'm curious. You know how do you take in information, whether it's podcasts or videos or whatever, and also, who are you paying attention to these days?

Bud Evans 31:59

Yeah, all of the above. So I have a process on whether or not I'm going to actually read a book and, you know, feel free to steal it. So I use a program called Blinkist. It's Blinkistcom Now. I'll download essentially the equivalent of a Quick Notes and I'll either page through it over breakfast or I'll listen to it while I'm, you know, in the gym, or something of that nature. If I like it, I'll get the audiobook. If I like the audiobook, I'll get the paper back. And I have so, truth be told, my wife thought I was absolutely insane. One year I had just read a snowball about Warren Buffett, you know, and in there they talked about him reading like 52 books a year, and I had to hold my beer moment. So I read 86.

Ed Mathews 32:51

Really.

Bud Evans 32:52

So it was a full time job.

Ed Mathews 32:54

Oh, I'll bet I do the same thing every year. Last year I was like I'm reading 52 books. This year I think I got to about 38. This year I'm actually on track. But yeah, it's a full time job, you know, and that is outside of college basketball season and now the NBA playoffs and football seasons right around the corner, and I'm notorious for watching a game and having a laptop and I'm on properties. But then I have to carve out the hour or two a day that I need to be able to continue to read and stay on track, although I have a cheat code and that is so.

Ed Mathews 33:34

I listened to Blinkist as well and I tend to do it. I listen rather than I'm more of a visual, you know learner than a reader, and so I'll listen to Blinkist and I also belong to Audible. I have a membership, so I'll listen to it in Blinkist and then go okay, this author really knows what they're talking about and I'll go cash your credit in and get the audio book. And then I listened to it at, you know, anywhere from 1.5 to 2.0 speed, and that's how I can cram in so many books. In a week I can get that one book done. That should take me eight hours to read. Really only takes me about five.

Ed Mathews 34:16

And, yeah, it's amazing, your brain can catch up, but, yeah, so that's how I shortcut the whole process of reading. It pays, it really does, it does, yeah, and it gives people perspective, right, because you know you're basically an author. You know snowball, right, or atomic habits. You know James Clear's book, which I read about six months ago fantastic book, any of the books right, you're cramming in about 10 years of that author's life into 245 pages and you know if you can consume that information in you know, a week or a matter of a couple of weeks. You just got 10 years smarter from that person in that particular topic. So you know, I don't know why you wouldn't read and taking information, because it keeps. I can't tell you how many times it's kept me from doing dumb stuff, right, yeah, or learning how to fix the dumb stuff I had already done.

Bud Evans 35:14

Perfect, and I'm going to make a recommendation because so I'm on this big mindset kick right now Not that I'm not always on a big mindset kick right now, because my whole life has been about the appropriate mindset, but I know. So I've just read for the fourth time Essentialism by Greg McEwen.

Ed Mathews 35:32

Oh that's a new one for me.

Bud Evans 35:34

Yeah, m-c-k-e-o-w-n. I don't have it on my shelf. I just read it again. Right, and so one of the things it's if this decision does not get me to my end goal, don't do it. If this action does not get me to my end goal, why am I doing it? Right, either give it to somebody else to do or don't do it at all. Right, and it can be as and I'm not kidding you, I just did this with my wife the other day where, by showing her my example, and I went through all of my sweatshirts and my closet, all of my pants, all of my shirts, all of my t-shirts, all of my joggers, and I went well, I don't wear this.

Bud Evans 36:22

And she goes. Well, what happens if you gain weight? I went trash. Right, I have like three pairs of joggers, three pairs of shorts, like 10 T shirts because I exercise. So you know, just, and just started going down the line and the next day, the next day, I couldn't open my bedroom door because her clock, she was cleaning out the walk-in closet of all the shoes and boxes.

Ed Mathews 36:52

Right If I haven't worn it in a year. Right, Mission accomplished.

Bud Evans 36:56

Exactly, I can open and close my closet doors now. It's absolutely amazing, yeah.

Ed Mathews 37:01

Life changed forever.

Bud Evans 37:02

Yeah, translate that directly into business and you have. Okay, this is my goal for 2022. Right, okay. And then Gino Wickman, traction or EOS, great models what are the three rocks that lead to that particular goal? And then build from there. Right, then set your goals backwards so that you can actually take those bites. Yeah, and you can execute. We eat that elephant one bite at a time.

Ed Mathews 37:27

Right on, right, so yeah. So you and I are reading the same books, because I do a very similar approach, although it's usually my wife that's getting needed to toss stuff the other way around. So, in fairness, yeah. So the thing the mantra in our family is if you haven't worn it in a year, it's time to get rid of it, donate it or toss it if it's ready, yeah. So let me ask you something. You've done a lot, you've accomplished a lot. If you were that 18-year-old kid coming out of high school, what would you do differently if you had to go back and start over?

Bud Evans 38:02

Yeah Well. So first off, I would still join the military. I'm just going to say that flat out. The military completely changed my life. You've seen my YouTube bio. I grew up in a standard middle-class neighborhood. I had a regular middle-class family. I'm from a divorced family, so my parents got divorced when I was in high school. The military changed my life. It created this drive and this discipline that I didn't have before the military. I was smart enough in school, but I didn't have the discipline to actually engage. I was actually literally told by my guidance counselor that I would struggle in the United States Air Force, that I shouldn't go in, and that he had a friend working in Philly. I would be able to be a trashman. Wow, yeah. So five degrees later Did?

Ed Mathews 38:57

you go back and see them, that counselor.

Bud Evans 39:00

I never got the chance to confront him with it and then later on listen, it is what it is. You've got to constantly reflect and in one of my reflections I came up with this conclusion he was a $35,000 a year frustrated not NBA basketball player who was sitting in a back room with no windows talking to punk kids like me who thought their stuff didn't stink, and he was taking out his own failures on me. So I look back and I go, like you know what Feel bad for that guy. He's long since passed, but I am successful.

Ed Mathews 39:39

Yeah, indeed, and the thing is is that I always look at, I look. I've learned to look back, not in frustration but in gratitude, because those are the people in my life that lit a fire.

Bud Evans 39:51

Yeah, he definitely motivated me.

Military Strategies in Real Estate

Ed Mathews 39:52

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for telling me I'm not capable of this. Oh, my beard right yeah exactly, and so you know you have those people that are. You know they may be a negative force in your life, but there, you know, there is a positive to take away from that and it's the.

Bud Evans 40:12

you know, watch me right, yeah, so the second part of that is this while you're in the military and you're moving along Now, for those of you who aren't, you can still do this. Right, in the military you have the option of a VA loan. Right, you can take a VA loan and get up to 100% on the purchase of a house, including your closing costs, because they'll transition that and they'll put it on the buyer. So, in that case, buy a house, rent it out, rent the rooms out to your buddies. You all collect basic allowance for housing, bah. Have everybody pay you. You don't pay anything. Keep all of your BAH. Throw that into a bank account. Rinse cycle, repeat.

Bud Evans 40:59

Go to your next base. Do an FHA loan, 3.5% down. Go to your next base. Do a VA loan, you know, refinance the first one, maybe refinance the second one. Keep going right. If you're in, if you're only in for four years and wind up with one property in a different location and it's 100% funded and now you're renting it out and actually making your mortgage or better, in that place, come home, use the FHA loan, get yourself a duplex, triplex or quad and house, hack it, yep, live in one and have the other two pay your mortgage.

Ed Mathews 41:30

Without a. That's excellent advice. Yeah, so, but I'm curious you know, when you're not talking about real estate or helping other people get into this, into this world, you know what do you like to do? How do you spend your time?

Bud Evans 41:42

Don't tell my wife, I always talk about this.

Ed Mathews 41:44

This is we'll be. We're going to be men here. We're not going to share this.

Bud Evans 41:47

Yeah, exactly so, ed. I'm going to tell you the truth here, because you brought something up earlier and we never kind of circled back around to it. But how I found my first JV partner? This guy's name is Matt Zvitkovich. Matt is a coder for SoFi Bank, right, and he and I we've known each other for probably eight, nine years. I had season tickets to the Philadelphia Flyers, anyway. That's a different story, but I also belong to this club within the Wells Fargo Center. It was called the Cadillac Girl for a very long time and now it's Adriens, which, whatever, yeah, it's Philly right, anyway. So I did not know, and until I actually started to network with people, I did not realize the level of network ability that I had. In that bar, standing there one day having a conversation, bringing a contractor in there to talk business, while we're standing at the bar, matt walks up to me and taps me on the shoulder and says dude, how come you never asked me to invest? That was it.

Bud Evans 42:55

Partnership started Started out as a private money lender lent on about 10 or 12 deals. At the end of that, he goes. What can I do to do what you do? So what do you ask of me? He goes, I want to buy rental properties. Like you, I want to retire someday. And I went okay, done so. Then the funny part was I was like 300,000. He goes, done. I went oh, so that's what he has for five. He goes done again, right, yeah. So he and I partnered on a couple of different LLCs. We have a six unit together, another multi-family unit and a bunch of single families together, but that's where I get that. You know that prenup, right, right. But that's how I met my first JV partner. Bringing this full circle, I talk about real estate everywhere and pretty much all the time, simply for that reason, right. But what do I do while I'm talking about real estate? I love good whiskey, I love good food, I love to travel and I love ice hockey Excellent. And fitness, yeah.

Ed Mathews 44:03

Yeah, it's interesting. I think I got it from a podcast I was listening to years ago, but it's something called the three foot rule, and that is that if someone, if a human being, is consuming oxygen within three feet of me while I'm consuming oxygen, I will somehow find a way to bring in real estate into the conversation and then talk about my passion, right, and I can't tell you how many people I've met, who I've either. You know, and it's the always oh, I would love to do that, right, but I don't have the time. I don't know where to get the money, I don't know where to get the deals and all that. And you know that's when I tell them hey, I'm a cheap date, you know, yeah, come grab a beer or a cup of coffee with me. I'll tell you everything I know and you know and, like I said, most of the time I'll buy. So, but the thing is is that you know you meet, it's amazing, the rooms. If you put yourself in the right rooms, proximity is power, as they say, right, and you know, if you're putting yourself in the right rooms and actually making an effort to network, it's amazing that the people that you'll meet that you know.

Ed Mathews 45:10

A friend of mine, chris Moran, was at a coffee shop a well-known national coffee shop and, you know, struck up a conversation with the gentleman in front of them. I guess the coffee was taken a little long and, you know, somehow it turned to real estate and the gentleman said I wish I had time to do that, but I'm, you know, an executive at this insurance company. Turns out he was the CEO of that insurance company and Chris struck up a friendship with him and I. At one point he was deploying, I want to say, a million dollars a year into the business so that Chris could go find deals for him. And you know they were joint venture partners and doing great, and to this day, I'm pretty sure they're still doing great. So it's amazing what you can learn if you just open your mouth and make friends right, exactly, yeah. So, but I've really enjoyed this conversation. I really have. And so if someone wants to learn more about your property business or your mentorship program, you know what's the best way for them to get in touch.

Bud Evans 46:15

Two ways, Very simply put look at on Instagram at budevans, aka the property patriot at budevans on Instagram, or just check out budevanscom. Excellent.

Ed Mathews 46:29

Well, bud Evans, thank you so much for your time today. You're a wealth of information and I'm grateful for all the gold nuggets you were dropping over the last wow, 45 minutes. We've been talking a while.

Bud Evans 46:40

Yeah, man, I could talk about this all day.

Ed Mathews 46:41

Me too. For days I can talk about it so. But thanks, it's a pleasure to see you.

Bud Evans 46:47

Thanks, Ed Same here.

Ed Mathews 46:48

All right, this has been the Real Estate Underground Podcast, a Clark Street capital presentation. Thanks for joining us. If you're enjoying the show, please remember to subscribe and share it with your friends. If you'd like to learn more about Clark Street capital and our upcoming projects, please join our investor club at clarkstcom. Slash join Until next time. Happy investing.