Ed Mathews

So the big question is this how are real estate investors who don't have a ton of free time, don't have access to off market deals and didn't start life on third base, how do we grow a real estate business conservatively to support our families, finally leave the corporate rat race and build a legacy? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm Ed Matthews and this is Real Estate Underground. This is the Real Estate Underground Podcast Show number 89. Greetings and salutations real estate undergrouners. This is Ed Matthews with the Real Estate Underground Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. Today is yet another awesome and really interesting conversation With me. Here is Deborah Razo. She is with RASD Development as well as the thing we're going to talk about a lot being a girl dad is the Women's Real Estate Network, or REN. So, deborah, welcome to the show and thank you so much for your time today. It's a pleasure to see it.

Deborah Razo

Thank you. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, not as much as. I do so in terms of your background and your history. I know you've done a lot of different things and been successful on a lot of different levels, a whole bunch of different vocations and careers. Why don't you just tell us a little bit about who you are and how you got here, and then we'll dive in?

Deborah Razo

Yeah, sure, I've been an entrepreneur for over 30 years, so that isn't new to me, but real estate was kind of new to me. I've only been a real estate investor for about the last 13 years and I'll just be honest with you, it wasn't even on my radar. Like say, 15 years ago. I had another company. I've had other multiple companies, but I had an opportunity to start over. I don't know if you or any, of you guys have had that kind of opportunity.

Ed Mathews

I think we all have it at some level, but I also think I'm picking up what you're putting down.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, who knows, maybe somebody listening is going through that opportunity right now with COVID and different things. I think it's different for everybody. Sometimes it's a divorce or the death of a loved one. For me it was a car accident. It was basically I was a passenger in an SUV in a tire blue and we lost control of the car and it went into the dirt and the rim of the tire dug into the dirt and we flipped. Oh no, so we drove aside first, so I was a passenger and I got crushed. Then I was airbagged to a hospital because I had a head wound that was bleeding out and they needed to stitch that up. While at the hospital, I was told that I had a broken neck. So it was really a huge turning point for me. I'm A-OK now, but it was a year of healing.

Deborah Razo

When you're doing that kind of healing, you have a lot of time to think Really. You think about, I thought about am I living my best life? Am I really living the life I dreamt of? You have an experience like that and you think life is short and I'm not going to waste any more time here on this planet unless I'm just really living the best life I can. I was fortunate in that my brother came out and helped take care of me and, by the way, I was a single parent. I had two kids in high school at the time. I had my own businesses but, honestly, I had actually created jobs for myself. I wasn't a business owner, I was a business operator. I really started realizing I wanted passive income, I wanted to travel the world, I wanted to have time with my family like time rich, absolutely.

Ed Mathews

True freedom.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, true freedom, exactly. I was like how do I get that? I literally started googling passive income. There's a lot of stuff that comes up, royalties comes up, and real estate, oh, real estate.

Ed Mathews

I've heard real estate.

Deborah Razo

I had read the little purple Bible Rich Dad, poor Dad I went back and dug it out and I read it again and I'm like I need to give me some. My brother knew I wanted to make these changes and my brother had been associated with Tony Robbins Association. He'd gone through a lot of their courses and he said maybe when you're well and you're ready to make these changes, you should go to some of this Robin stuff. I did because I knew I had to change here first. I had to change my mindset first and then figure out how to do the rest. I started educating in real estate and honestly, I think I was educating for at least another year after that before I actually even did anything.

Deborah Razo

I think for a lot of people that are just getting into real estate there's a lot of mental barriers. It was risky and I don't have the money and there's all kinds of things that come up, barriers that come up. I finally decided that I had a mentor that told me to get an investment philosophy. I was raised I'm first generation American both my parents very blue collar. Let me tell you I wasn't raised with an investment philosophy. If there was a new philosophy it was like keep your head down, work hard, pay your bills Right.

Ed Mathews

For 40 years, then died.

Deborah Razo

Exactly. I started trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I think from my accident I was really clear that my outcome was cash flow. I wanted that passive income, but I was in a situation where I didn't have any income and I was like, okay, I need to do something to generate income. I chose flipping. I'll just say flipping is a job for anybody that's out there that's wanting to do it.

Ed Mathews

There's nothing passive about it.

Deborah Razo

There is nothing passive about it, I think. Sometimes you either love it or hate it, and I love it. In fact, I still flip every once in a while because I just can't pass up a deal and I have a 12 step program for it.

Ed Mathews

It's so funny. You say that we dialed back our flipping to focus on multifamily at Clark Street. But I tell people all the time I don't drink, I don't do drugs. Flipping is my cocaine. I love it all of it.

Deborah Razo

It's ridiculous. I'll be on my way to a tile place or Home Depot and I'm excited inside.

Ed Mathews

Me too Totally yeah, incorrigibly excited yeah exactly.

Deborah Razo

Totally yeah, but luckily I was good at it. I would flip a property and then, after I made some money that way, I was like, okay, it's time for me to buy and get that cash flow. Through a series of events, I realized I wasn't going to be able to cash flow in Los Angeles. I'm from Los Angeles, by the way. I wasn't going to be able to cash flow in Los Angeles. It's really hard to cash flow here. It's an appreciation market, not really cash flow market. I started once again Google, my best friend. I started Googling high cash flow markets and started researching them and I ended up buying a single family house in Memphis, Tennessee.

Ed Mathews

Great market.

Deborah Razo

Once again, it took me a long time to just get in that mindset to get going and do that transaction. But then once I did it, I'm like oh, wait a second, this isn't so hard and I'm already getting cash flow on it. I think I probably bought three more that first year.

Ed Mathews

Right, Listen up and cash flow market taking out and $.

Deborah Razo

So that was my routine for a while and I was accumulating properties and then stuff happens again. My debt to income ratio became topsy turvy and I realized, oh, I'm not going to be able to sustain this, I'm not going to get to where I need to be in this realm. So I had to start looking for other things and luckily I was still flipping and I was building on that education and building on that experience. And during that time I actually started the Women's Real Estate Network and honestly, I started it because I was going through a hard time in real estate. A bunch of the hedge funds had come into Los Angeles and they were buying up all those single family homes that normally flippers would get and I was putting out offer after offer after offer and not getting anything and I was really beating my head against the wall.

Deborah Razo

And if anybody here has ever gone to a regular real estate club, you know that it's about 60 to 80% men and the other 20 to 40% women, depending on the club. And I was just really wanting to surround myself with other women and I asked some other women to come and have brunch with me and that was the beginning of that. And so those women, I started seeing them on a regular basis. We opened up our homes and we started meeting and there's usually wine involved and we were exchanging resources I need an attorney for a tenant I have, I need a foundation guy and it would just became something. And then we started a meetup because I realized there was a whole group of women who didn't know, these women, that powerhouses, and who were such resources. And that's how Ren started. And next thing, I know we have 12 chapters across the US and things are going amazing and I was up at our Seattle chapter and I met a woman developer and that just changed. That's rocked my world. I've never met a woman developer before and she A unicorn.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, she said. I said you know, gosh, you don't meet women developers. It's so great to hear you talk. And she said, oh, you're a flipper, right? And I said yeah, and she goes, I used to be a flipper. Developing is so much easier. And I'm like how could developing be easier?

Ed Mathews

Everything's square, everything's level, everything's plumb right.

Deborah Razo

Right, well, and she's like it's the front work, right, when you're getting the permitting, when you're going through all that process. She's like it's a lot of details, but when you start to build, it's ground up right, it's pretty easy. And it opened my eyes to me being able to develop. And so the next thing, you know, I'm looking for partners in that realm and so I started developing here in Los Angeles and I think for Wren that's one of the things it does right, like it's great for us to go to real estate clubs and see successful men in the market and Lord knows I've gained a lot of education, great education from other men. But to see somebody you identify with if you're a woman, you identify with women and to see how she's balancing children and aging parents and the dog and the relationship as well as the business, it really opens up the possibilities for you and that's why I started Wren.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, when you see someone who looks like you, has your responsibilities, has your perspective on the world, at least in some way, you know, it starts to break down that barrier of belief, right? Because you're like, okay, well, this person who is my age, she looks just like me, she's got similar responsibilities. When you see that, you start to realize not only can I do this, but I deserve to do this, right.

Deborah Razo

I do, and that there's an opening, it's possible for me. I can see myself walking in her shoes, right, exactly. And I know it's the same. Men are the same. They mentor with people, other men that are like-minded, you know, I mean, it's not any different than that, other than, you know, we're women and we, you know, we do things a little differently. We have a different style.

Ed Mathews

So to speak, definitely put. We tend to hire. So at Clark Street we tend to hire women. Because while I live in a house of women right, we have let's see my wife, my two daughters, three dogs all female I am literally the only source of actual testosterone in that entire building.

Ed Mathews

And but you know, the thing that I've learned is that years ago I asked my wife, patricia, who's an accountant by trade. I said I'd love for you to come work with me, not for me, but with me. And she kind of smiled and she goes you and I work very differently and I don't know that that would work. I'm like, okay, well, I respect that. I'm crushed. But I respect that because you know what she recognized is that you know, the reason that our marriage works so well is the exact reason why I would have driven her crazy at the office. Right, we're very much a ying and yang kind of couple where I'm the you know that the she's the person who keeps the trains running and everybody on track, and I'm the one that you know tries really hard to disrupt all that with hey, wait a minute.

Ed Mathews

we're going to do this and we're going to do that, and you know, I recently heard a comedian talk about that.

Real Estate Investment and Overcoming Challenges

Deborah Razo

And because I'm the same way. I'm very much the dreamer right and my husband's very much to feed on the ground patient, methodical right, and between was like you know, you can't have two dreamers in a relationship you wouldn't have a house by the end of the day.

Ed Mathews

So true, so true, yeah, so so, in terms of real estate, I mean obviously you could have done anything, but what was it about real estate? I mean, I get that you love it, I get that the flipping is fun, right, but there are a lot of businesses that are fun. So you know someone as smart and as accomplished and you know, with your vision you could have done anything. You could have been. You know you could have bought a franchise. You could have bought, you know, a cleaning service or home improvement company or whatever. But why real estate in particular?

Deborah Razo

I think real estate was the first thing in my mind because it kept popping up for passive income. You know you've got to. Just I'm going to leverage where I was coming from. And where I was coming from was a place. Of life is short and I want to make the most out of it, and at that time I was 45. And to go through all your savings and to be set back like that at that time that we're getting ready to go to college, right, you know you have your life on this trajectory, thinking it's projected to go a certain way, and you know when that's interrupted, you know it really gives you that opportunity to think about it and I honestly I think that it was really great for me because what it did was it provided leverage for my level of motivation. You know I wasn't looking at dabbling.

Ed Mathews

Right.

Deborah Razo

Well, you know, it was like you know the old story of Cortez, when he arrived in the new world and he burned his boats and found that his sailors were highly motivated to make it work, right, Right right and I think sometimes you know, if you're not, whatever that motivation is, whatever you want real estate to do for you, you've got to really leverage yourself because it's not an easy business and I'm not talking it's easy as far as mechanics go, Like I can tell you how, or you could figure out how to put in an offer on something you know. Are you going to put in 10 lowball offers a week to get that property that you want to get so that you can make the cash flow you want to make? That's a mindset, that's a different set of you know, and I've recently. I always say in Ren you know this is about transformation, because the person that you are right now is not necessarily going to be the person that you are when you get those that whatever that goal is, that passive income goal or that, yeah.

Ed Mathews

Guaranteed, guaranteed right, Because your perspective is going to change. I mean, obviously your financial world will change. But I also think that just the accomplishment of doing that will give you that burst of confidence that will throw your shoulders back and you know you're more likely to take on projects, because then they're done. That.

Deborah Razo

And the confidence that you'll start to gain. And it's interesting because in women in particular I don't know if you know this, ed, but statistically we are actually better investors as far as returns go. Usually our returns are higher than men's, but statistically we don't go for big jumps, we have a hard time taking big risks. So when the price tag is high, like a house, like, you know, apartment complex, like a development, it's a lot more for us to move forward on. Where men I guess maybe it's a testosterone, I don't know what it is Men have an easier time with that.

Deborah Razo

And in Wren we talk about it in the form of confidence. Right, it's like, well, you know, like women know when they, when there's a good deal, it's not about not knowing when there's a good deal, it's about taking action on that. And so we have a saying in Wren like you can borrow my confidence, like I love that Before you. So borrow my confidence and go put in that offer, girl, you know what I mean. But you have to have some of that support behind you, whether it's in a mentor, whether it's a networking organization, you know, because this business can be tenacious. Yeah, yeah, you know, you have to have dreamers like us. Right, we're like what?

Ed Mathews

are you doing Right, exactly? But you know, the thing is is that when you go to the lumberyard, you go to Home Depot or you go to the server, you know the supply house. As a woman, you get treated differently. They, you know, there I've gotten so I mentor a bunch of folks and actually most of them are women and the, you know I'll get a phone call from.

Ed Mathews

I got one from my friend, stephanie, several months ago and she was like, yeah, this guy at the supply house was telling me this and in my response was well, you know, the fact is is that in this business, there are a lot of people who don't appreciate the fact that women have gotten into the real estate investment game, and they tend to be a little bit rude.

Ed Mathews

And so my advice to you would be tell them to, you know, very nicely, tell them to shove it and tell them to go get the thing you need, right, and you know. And she, you know, finished that project and made you know very good money and I was more than happy for her. And but the fact is is that you know, I mean there's a bias and you've got to overcome it because, and I think there's at least two layers to it. I'm curious what you think. There's the there's the shock of wow, this guy isn't is, this person is disrespecting me, but then it's also, as you were saying earlier, the confidence of and I don't deserve that, right? I know just as much as that guy does, or that gal, right?

Deborah Razo

Right, it's a little. It's different for women because and this is kind of getting into some theory that I have, and that is that the language of business was written by men. Let's face it. You know you guys have been doing business a lot more than we have. You know, as far as rights go and all that kind of stuff, and the language of business in a male form is very chest to chest. You know you've got a guy disrespecting you, ed, you're going to go chest to chest with him. You know like hey, back off, I'm going to. You know like it's going to be that kind of engagement and the language of business for women is much more collaborative, much more creative. You know, and honestly, I can't go chest to chest with my contractors.

Deborah Razo

You know, like, and so you know it's about embracing what I have and what I am and understanding that as a woman, I have power. It's not that I don't have power, it's how I utilize that power. I mean, I have to go to my contractors and say, hey, I've got this problem here. How can you help me out? How can we solve this together? How can we, you know, get to the end line on time and that budget and do this and employ you know they're masculine to come out and help. You know men love to have solutions. Oh yeah, I love them when they can come up with them and it can still work for me, right? So you know it is.

Ed Mathews

It is kind of an interesting dynamic with the masculine and the feminine and there are times when I've got to go chest to chest because that's the only language somebody is understanding with me you know, and you know the fact that you do that when it's out of character, you know if you're more of a collaborator and you know, at the next, you know, at that point of conflict, you know you're coming back at somebody saying, hey, I've had enough, I'm the boss, you're doing this and you're going to do it this way, my way, or whatever. Right, you know, it's interesting and I agree, and I'm well, actually I'm not surprised that women tend to be more successful in investing Only because of their, their inclination to collaborate. Right, because, you know, the fact is is that more than one brain is way smarter than one one brain. Yeah, you know.

Deborah Razo

I think there, you know, there are a lot of you know people who have you know a lot of women on their teams, for that reason yeah, you know there's a nurturing that comes along with that, with the collaboration, and you know teamwork that you know comes along with that. So, yeah, it's really a plane to your assets.

Systems and Mentors in Business

Ed Mathews

Yeah. So so you know one of the things that I'm curious about, and so I'm a, you know, recovering technology guy, right. So so I think, in terms of process, procedures, systems, things like that, and so I'm curious, you know, as you are flipping properties and you are buying multifamily and, you know, eventually setting up REN, you know what are the systems that you were using to kind of keep it all straight and moving forward, Because it's a lot.

Deborah Razo

Wow, it is a lot. And you know what it's. It's a lot of growth along the way. You know, like you, you know, you don't, you don't come. I didn't come out thinking, oh, I need a system for this, because I'm not an eightly a system person, I'm an eightly kind of visionary. You know, like, let's just do it, and you know we'll, we'll figure out the paper trail behind us, but as things are growing, I mean I'll just. I was saying this to somebody the other day. I remember when I was first setting up my first CRM right, my first management sophomore, and it was called a spreadsheet.

Ed Mathews

Right, hey, I'm all for keeping it simple.

Deborah Razo

Right and that's how it was in the beginning, you know. And then I've grown and my tools to systematize have gotten better and better along the way. And you know, and I'm just going to go back, it's because I value my time, because I wanted the freedoms right, and if I'm always working in my business I'm not having that freedom. So having VA is having systems in place, you know, so that things can run on their own unless there's a hiccup. I mean, I think as a business owner and I don't care what business you're in you have to be an innate problem solver. You know, I I jokingly say my phone doesn't ring unless there's a problem on the other end of the line.

Deborah Razo

Right, something's on fire, that's true, you know what he calls me when everything is going great. Right, that's so true, you know. I mean, that's just the way it is, and luckily I feel like I'm a really good problem solver and I've got a lot of ideas and so that works, you know. So I'm always, you know, problem solving on the phone. But if that's the case, then all the regular stuff for everything to run smoothly has to be in some kind of system, right?

Deborah Razo

And it has to be you know, luckily, with rentals, you know, there's a system for you know, from the tenant level to the property management level, to the owner level right, that is pretty clearly defined. But you still have to, you know, have your product. You know what does it manage the managers? Right, you still have to manage.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, and you know, you and I are, you and I are both Tony Robbins, dave Otaiz, and you know, and Keith Cunningham, who is. You know, someone I know that is a mentor of yours and I consider him a mentor. I shook his hand once but I don't know that he'd return my phone calls. But that's okay. I've read all his books and you know. The thing is is that you've got to, you've got to create operational leverage and work on your business, not have a job in your business, if you're going to be successful. You know, as someone who is the leader of a company, right?

Deborah Razo

And you know, being a leader is no joke. No, there's plenty of. There's people to manage, there's assets to manage, there's systems to manage. Like you know, it's something as your businesses grow, you take on more and more and hopefully, you know, there are mentors in our lives. I know that I'm constantly being mentored and coached by different people, depending on what the situation is, so that I can make that better, right? Yeah, not only for myself, but for everybody that's on my team.

Ed Mathews

Right.

Deborah Razo

That I can be clear when I'm talking Right and hopefully.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, I mean so, I mean, that's it right. You know that Tony Robbins talks about the value chain, right, and you know, making sure that not only is the task or the thing that I need done as the person you know in the process, but also communicating that to you and then you communicating back to me. Yes, I understand it, yes, I know what you need, yes, I know when you need it, you know, and you know, have that interaction. You know, one thing that I'm huge on, and I know you are as well, is mentors, and so you know, I'm curious about, you know, the best advice you've ever gotten and who gave it to you.

Themes, Mentorship, and Personal Enjoyments

Deborah Razo

Oh my gosh, that's a really hard question. I've had a lot of different mentors and they've had different impacts on me along the way. I don't know that I could zero in on one. I'll tell you a couple different situations. Currently, I go in and out of having mentors within my industry and outside my industry. I'll just say that's very conscious, by the way, because there's times when I need to have a mentor that's telling me how to run my business in the systems and everything within my industry. There's times when I need somebody who helps me to think creatively, maybe outside my industry, as personal growth and as leadership growth. I do that. I will tell you. I have a thing where I theme my years. You know the Tony Robbins quote your success is dependent on the amount of uncomfortable that you can take. I can't remember the exact quote, I'm sorry. Discomfort.

Ed Mathews

You had it.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, that year, when I wouldn't be faced with a choice, I would go with the most uncomfortable one. Wow, it was a tremendous year of growth. I felt like it really just took me out of my comfort zone and really helped me to see how resilient I am and how resourceful I am. It really helped me to build confidence in myself and that was reflected in my business. Whatever it is that you're working on, first of all, I'd say always have a mentor or coach so that you're growing either your business or personally, because leading people is no joke. Humans are hard.

Deborah Razo

The bigger the projects get, the more people involved there are. Then surround yourself with those people that you can reach out to and be sounding boards.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, as a business leader, I have this theory that I'm continually proving out, which is that leaders are readers these days. It doesn't necessarily mean like an actual physical book. It can be your Kindle or an e-book or podcasts or videos on YouTube or whatever audiobooks, whatever. I'm curious about a couple of things. First off, how do you consume information when you're trying to sharpen the saw, so to speak? I'm also curious who you're paying attention to these days in terms of the information that you're pulling in Right?

Deborah Razo

Mostly books. I still really like books. I do Kindle and stuff too, because I'm traveling a lot and I can't you can carry four books with you. That's four books with me.

Deborah Razo

I do listen to podcasts and audibles when I'm traveling, but it's been a little off these days because I've been so busy lately, but mostly it's books. Right now I'm reading a couple of books, one on health and one on networking. It varies back and forth. I think that it varies back and forth depending on how immersed in business I am. If I'm really immersed in business, it's really hard for me to pick up another business book and read it when I'm on my off time. I want something that's not related to business. That is growing a different part of me. If business is just running smoothly and I'm going along, then I'd like to deep dive back into business again. What I've been doing lately is studying other leaders. To be honest with you, I find it fascinating.

Ed Mathews

Interesting.

Deborah Razo

I did a deep dive with a mastermind on Steve Jobs recently, A fascinating man. How does a man who didn't have great rapport and people skills but not known for his delicate skills yes, he was not a codler.

Deborah Razo

Yes, a nerd. He was able to relate that vision to construct something so beautiful, to utilize everybody's creativity to construct something so beautiful, and how he was able to do that without having great people skills. Really, what were his talents and how did he utilize that? And what were his weaknesses and how did he compensate for that? I like looking at leaders, especially leaders who have served a community at a high level.

Ed Mathews

Yes, that's my favorite, Having been worked where I did that. The stories, that the legends are all over the place. My favorite one is Jobs allegedly had on his mirror. He had a sticky note that said are you excited about what you're about to do today? When he was brushing his teeth He'd look at that and that was his guiding light of he has to be passionate about what he's doing. You think about the things that he created. As I think he said in an interview, no one ever asked for the ATM. He didn't invent the ATM, but he did invent the iPhone and the iPod and iTunes and podcasts.

Deborah Razo

It changed the way we live today.

Ed Mathews

Fundamentally changed the way we live.

Deborah Razo

Was able to convey that vision. That's amazing to me because I work with people all the time in conveying a vision, when I'm rehabbing or whatever. Let me tell you a lot left for misunderstanding, even though you think you're conveying yourself really clear.

Ed Mathews

Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth and also the things that are written on this piece of paper that are the same as the words coming out of my mouth? Do you understand one or both of those? Yeah, I got it. Then you come back and you're like no you didn't get it.

Deborah Razo

There's a guy in my mentoring program. He owns a bunch of osteostrongs. He was talking about his clients and he was like I just love my clients, I love them. I could feel like he was genuine about this. I watched that for him during our break and I go. Thank you for conveying that to me, because I just still feel really curious about the people there, right.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, they're good days and bad. Most of them are good, but, yeah, there are a couple days there where I just got out of tears, yeah. That's a very nice way to put it. So let me ask you, deborah I mean, given all the things you've accomplished in a relatively short time if you had to start over, what would you do differently?

Deborah Razo

Oh gosh, that's interesting, you know, because my skills have been built on each other and I can kind of see that clearly. I think that I would be, I would plunge faster and deeper with mentors. You know a lot of it, a lot of the figuring it out on my own, because prior to real estate I was a solopreneur, right, and I think I had a little bit of a like a lone wolf syndrome, you know, like I can't control myself, kind of thing, then there.

Deborah Razo

First of all, I don't think I realized the value that went in that that it is if you're partnering with somebody who really knows what they're doing and what that the part, what that you know does for you. I think I would have fostered those types of relationships and those types of mentors really early on to be able to leverage myself, you know, even more. Yeah, so you know.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, figuring out your highest and best use is so important as someone who's, you know, leading multiple companies, and you know. The fact is I say this a lot is that you know, if I walk into a conference room or hop on a Zoom call and I'm the smartest person on that call, we're all in a lot of trouble, right, because I know what my highest and best use is and it's almost never what we're talking about on the, you know, as a team, right?

Deborah Razo

So there's a lot of people who dabble in real estate. You know, like you know they're in the corporate life and they're looking for a retirement plan, or they're in, they're, you know they're just putting their money aside in real estate. You know, and I think that's a great way to go, but when you're ready to, or if you're committed to, you know, fostering a large portfolio replacing your income, as in a corporate job, you know, I think it's a different mentality and you know, real estate is one of those things that you can be kind of lone wolf about. Sure, you don't.

Ed Mathews

A lot harder.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, it's a lot harder when you're fostering bigger portfolios, you know. So learning to love those people Really important.

Ed Mathews

Really important? Yeah, absolutely so, Deborah, when you're not talking about real estate. What do you enjoy doing in your free time? Oh my God, Do you have any free time? Sorry.

Deborah Razo

I'm just gonna run over real estate at it. That's not true. I like to travel, and now I'm traveling and accumulating real estate. I, one of my red women, ended up liquidating her assets in California during COVID and moving to Puerto Rico, and yeah, and she's. She's gotten some incredible tax advantages there, and I went and visited her and now her and I bought a multi-unit that we're making into a bed and breakfast, and so you know, that's one way of traveling. I also have a lot of family. I'm half Irish, so I have a lot of family in Ireland. So I like to travel Ireland and see my family and travel with my kids, who actually don't have as much time to travel with mama because they're adults now and they're having their wives.

Ed Mathews

now they're adulting.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, they're adulting, or at least their version of it, right, yeah, yeah, so yeah, I do. I love travel, I love. My husband and I really are big fans of comedy and music. So we go out to watch comedians and laugh a lot and enjoy music, enjoy musicians and you know we get to do that. We have, we put some things on our bucket lists around that now.

Ed Mathews

Oh yeah.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, we want to see a concert in the Red Rocks.

Ed Mathews

Like I've heard the red rock. Oh, it's amazing. Have you ever heard it? I have not.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, so that's like on our bucket list. Like, we're like we need to look at that concert schedule and, you know, see somebody who we want to see and I hear the acoustics there and it's just beautiful, right. So, like you know, we're putting some things on our bucket list that aren't necessarily, like you know, european trip, but are something that, like, right, you know we really enjoy.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, something you're passionate about right. Yeah, yeah. And you know you live in the right part of the world for music and comedy, given that you live in the LA area. That's a there's a lot of talent and within you know a few miles of where you are.

Deborah Razo

Yeah, the summers are pretty busy.

Ed Mathews

I'll bet. I'll bet. So, Deborah, I've really enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you again very much for your time and your insights and your experiences. If people want to learn more about your development business or REN, your organization, you know what's the best way to reach you, Sure.

Deborah Razo

So REN, both online. So REN is the Women's Real Estate Network, is the acronym. Is REN, our little bird, I don't know if there we go, yep, and it's REN inspires, reninspirescom. Ren inspires. You know, facebook, ren inspires, instagram, ren inspires, twitter, just Google, ren inspires. And connect with us On our website. We have an event scheduled, so we have meetings via Zoom.

Deborah Razo

Since COVID hit, we're not meeting locally, we've just gone on Zoom and so we're having meetings via Zoom every month and it's just a different woman sharing her business model with us every month. So we get to talk to these women about their different business models, how they're financing it, all that kind of stuff. And then, if you want to talk to me, go to deborazocom and Deborah. You can schedule a 15 minute call with me and I can see how I can help you. Like I mentioned, we have a mentoring program coming up. I think it starts August 7th. It's just a 12 week program that we do twice a year, mainly for wholesaling and flipping. So people that want to get into the business Right, yeah, so connect, that'd be great, yeah.

Ed Mathews

All right. Well, deborah Razo, thank you so much. It's great to see you, my friend, and thank you for sharing all your experiences and dropping all those gold nuggets along the way today.

Deborah Razo

Thank you so much. I really enjoyed our time together. Thank you. Me too, so cool, cool.

Ed Mathews

This has been the Real Estate Underground Podcast a Clark Street Capital presentation. Thanks for joining us. If you're enjoying the show, please remember to subscribe and share it with your friends. If you'd like to learn more about Clark Street Capital and our upcoming projects, please join our investor club at clarkstcom slash join Until next time. Happy investing.