So the big question is this how are real estate investors who don't have a ton of free time, don't have access to off market deals and didn't start life on third base, how do we grow a real estate business conservatively to support our families, finally leave the corporate rat race and build a legacy? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm Ed Matthews and this is Real Estate Underground.
Ed MathewsThis is the Real Estate Underground podcast, show number 90. Greetings and salutations, real Estate Undergrounders. It is Ed Matthews with the Real Estate Underground once again. So this is another really cool show. You know, it's one of those. You know, be careful when you meet your heroes. Although this gentleman lives up to the, it lives up to the billing. I have been a. I was just telling Dr Adam Gower, by the way, welcome to the show. Sir, I was just telling Adam that I've been a peripheral Gower crowd person for quite some time and I've really enjoyed his content and I was very excited when we reached out to see if he would be interested and he graciously accepted our invitation to join our show. So, adam, welcome to the show and thank you for your time today.
Dr. Adam GowerWell, thanks for having me. It's funny because you did say welcome undergrounders and completely unrelated to Real Estate. Of course, it reminds me of one of my favorite books. It's a very, very heavy book, so I recommend it only if you are ready to dive into deep darkness.
Ed MathewsYeah, once in a while I go there.
Dr. Adam GowerNotes from underground.
Ed MathewsOh yes. Yes, I've never read it, but I know the book.
Dr. Adam GowerIt's only short and it's translated from the Russian. It's very dense and very intense. So anyway, for those undergrounders that want to go really deep underground, Right, right, yeah.
Ed Mathewsif you're feeling like you're looking to go to a dark place, that's the best.
Dr. Adam GowerIf you're feeling like the world is far too bright and wonderful every day.
Ed MathewsYeah, exactly, it's something that will take you underground in the real way.
Dr. Adam GowerSo anyway, right, right.
Ed MathewsAdam, like I said, I've been following you online for quite some time and consuming as much of your content as humanly possible, but for those of us out there who haven't discovered you yet, you want to tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Dr. Adam GowerSure, I'll do that as briefly as I can. I'm not very good at doing that briefly. Okay, I'll try my best. So these days I so actually, I'm just going to split this away.
Dr. Adam GowerFor the last 10 years or so, pretty much since the passing of the jobs act, I have been running a digital marketing company. I never thought I'd ever say that. Well, that's what we do with digital marketers and we assist real estate sponsors so general partners, professional real estate investors to raise capital online by building crowdfunding platforms for them, absolutely bespoke, tailored crowdfunding platforms so they can find investors who are interested in their value proposition to invest with them. That's basically what could really at a high level. That's what we do. But I also teach real estate investing to individuals, to accredited investors. I think we're up to I mean significantly over 5,000 or so over the last few years. But that's what we do.
Dr. Adam GowerMy background is. The reason that I kind of you know balk even today, at the idea of saying that I'm a digital marketer is because really I am at heart of real estate investor or sponsor. My career goes back to I don't even want to say the word, but early 1980s. I don't want to say 40 years, it'll just make me seem so old, but it goes back to the early 1980s when I started pulling wires for an electrician, quickly moved into raising capital, found out multifamily sponsor in Southern California where I raised in those days it was $30 million, so today probably several tens of that. Whatever that would be today. And then I ended up in Japan working for a division of Universal Studios. I was president actually, I'll show off that I do speak Japanese Daihyo Torishimari Yaku Tachur, which means representative director and president of the division of Universal Studios running all of that real estate development in Asia Pacific.
Dr. Adam GowerCame back, did my own developments in 07, sold out what a lucky break and ended up right before the global financial crisis and ended up at East West Bank, a major regional bank headquartered in California. They'd done a lot of lending to real estate collateralized lending. A lot of those loans were going bad, so they brought me into help clean the balance sheet by selling those loans. And then I ended up a colony capsule third largest private exteriors state shop in the world at the time, and they'd done $7 billion of acquisitions of non-performing real estate debt, essentially from failed banks, in partnership with the FDIC. And so I headed up a division of that team and in the last 10 years I've been focused on building these digital marketing systems to help sponsors raise capital and I guess, to get all the way to today.
Dr. Adam GowerI just you did say I could say I just published a. What I'm doing today is I just published a new book called Capital Calls and Rescue Capital. It's all about how to navigate the current downturn and actually how to come out really far ahead when the upturn picks up again, which it will do, it always does. That's it, it does.
Ed MathewsYeah, it's timely that we're talking because obviously we're recording here in October of 2023. And, depending on who you speak with, depending on the economist you speak with, depending on the economist you speak with, they are saying we're coming in for a soft landing, we are heading towards a economic brick wall or somewhere in between, and I suspect it's somewhere in between. But I'm curious about the new book and your perspective on the market. Where do you think we're going? How deep is this recession going to be? And let's, then we can talk about navigating it.
Dr. Adam GowerRight, so it's funny. You said everyone's talking about a soft landing. I saw it, but one of my primary sources for news about the commercial real estate industry apart from all the newsletters that I'm on and I'm on just about all of them is LinkedIn. I like LinkedIn a lot, and then I also have a Twitter list that only has commercial real estate sponsors and news outlets in it, so it's a really focused way of seeing what's going on. The only reason I mention that is because when you say I saw a comment on LinkedIn this morning, it's actually got a chart that proves it. He says the number of people who are saying that we're going to go into a soft landing is directly related. As it goes up, the more and more people that say that means the closer you get into a hard landing.
Ed MathewsThat's what he said like some analysis, it's an inverse relationship.
Dr. Adam GowerNow look and the bigger picture. You know, economists never like I'm not an economist, but economists never like to predict right, because you can only ever be wrong, really. But what I will tell you is that, in my blinkered view of the world, which is really exclusively focused on commercial real estate markets and investing, we are going into a very deep recession. I mean, there's no doubt it's going to be a hard, hard landing. The only thing that's going to soften it is any kind of negotiations for low modifications that sponsors are going to be able to finagle over the next few months and those who are weaker are just not going to be able to do that. 90% of loans made specifically to multi-families that's kind of the dominant asset class, but we do, by the way we work with just I don't think there's a single asset class that we haven't touched yet but focusing on multi-families 90% of the loans made from 2020, early 2021. So we're getting now to year three. The early 2020s are going to our underwater period. The equity is wiped out. There's no equity left. Sponsors are out of money. They are needing more capital from their investors and that is beginning to hit now. We're starting to see the beginnings of it and it's going to crescendo going into next year. What's going to start impacting that even more?
There's also another interesting topic today when you look at appraisals like what's the value today? Well, the only reason anybody needs an appraisal is because the bank needs one. Seriously, I mean, I don't need to say it, I'm not knocking appraisals at all. They do a very good job. But if it weren't that regulations mandated you have to have an appraisal, no one would get one, because prudent sponsors do their own appraisals. Right, you do your own analysis and you decide what it is. The bank needs one so that they have something to put in the files. Well, appraisals are backward looking. So they look in the rear view mirror to see where we've been in order to get a value today. Well, as more distress comes to the market, as a consequence, appraisals are still unrealistically high. So as more distress comes onto the market, those new comps are going to start accelerating the downward trend to where valuations are and it's going to become harder and harder for lenders to justify any kind of loan modifications. So what we're going to start seeing in the beginning of I mean, it's already. We're already seeing it now, but we're going to see even more objects be significant defaults for closures for sales, and it's going to be very heavy in multifamily.
Dr. Adam GowerYeah, so if you're looking for this gap, but here's how you can tell when there's a bottom, can you believe that? I'm actually going to say that, how you can time the market? I'm actually going to tell you how to do that, and we're only being watched by a million of your followers and everybody on YouTube and the NSA and whoever else is listening in. So I can't be bashed. I'm sure they're not paying attention. It's okay, I can't be bashful about making such a bold statement, but basically this is what happens.
Dr. Adam GowerSo the reason there's a dislocation in the market now is because you have all the projects that are in market that people own, obviously, in Baltimore over the last three years were underwritten to a set of assumptions, and those assumptions included interest rates, insurance rates, rent, growth trends, taxes, capex costs, et cetera. So these are kind of your five big ones. So they were set to those assumptions. Those assumptions are all wrong now and so, as a result, when you talk about the bid ask spread that's the bid, ask spread plus sellers don't want to accept really that they've lost all of their equity right, they're losing. We've even seen some sellers coming to the, coming to closings bringing extra cash so that the proceeds at the closing cover the debt, because they don't want a foreclosure against their name. Because if they have a foreclosure against their name they're not gonna be able to do investing for the next.
Dr. Adam GowerYou know however many years five to seven years, I'm not sure exactly how long it is. It's a long time. So when underwriting using new assumptions, the real assumptions prevalent in the market today will determine by market conditions today when acquisitions using those assumptions starts become more frequent, they become more commonplace. That's when you've hit bottom, when you can underwrite something and there isn't a negotiation with the seller and there are more of those. That's when we've hit bottom and it tends to bounce along that level for a little while and then it starts to pick up slowly and we go back. And then you know lending is stricter, so it's harder to finance, you've got to have better credentials, et cetera. So it's a slow pickup. And then what happens again, in however many 10, I think somebody talks about an 18 year cycle, however long it is then liquidity comes back into the market, competition gets more intense, lending standards go down, there's a run up and then another crash. But that's how you tell when the market is bottomed is when deals stop penciling with today's assumptions, the new assumptions.
Ed MathewsRight, and that is, you know, in a lot of places insurance has nearly doubled, right, and if you're in any sort of weather affected area, you know Texas, the Suncoast, you know, and certainly other areas like that your insurance has more than doubled.
Dr. Adam GowerAnd you know, and it wasn't just a gradual increase, it was literally overnight, yeah, we have clients, office clients in the Sunbelt who have seen insurance rates get 4X, I hope 300,000 one year, million to the next, and that just goes straight off the bottom line. If it doesn't contribute anything at all to the business planet, it just sucks NOI straight out. Yeah, that's a gut punch holy cow, all right.
Ed MathewsSo in terms of 2024, 2025, you know, the other part of it that I've noticed in my experience is that, for whatever reason, presidential years here in the States, people go nuts and so the economy tends to wobble along just because of the political climate. So when you have the inflation bill coming due and the Fed trying to manage a soft landing which it is clearly not gonna do and then you have, you know, people running for president, the economy becomes very difficult. Credit tightens up and clearly you know that is bad for people who didn't do their underwriting correctly, but really good for people who have dry powder and or were smart enough to cash in their properties, capture at least some of that equity and now they're ready to buy. You know things are about to go on sale again. Finally, it's something I've been projecting for 24 months and you know at some point I'm gonna be right, and hopefully I'm right in the next swell.
Dr. Adam GowerWell, you're in good company, Ed. I mean, there's a lot of people who have not been buying for the last three years. I haven't, but I also haven't been buying really for the last 10 years because I've been focused on building another business completely. I've done some investing, but definitely also I've been waiting for this opportunity because it is a period of wealth transfer. It sounds a little crass and a little Machiavellian to say it like that. That's exactly what it is. By the way, it was soft landing.
Dr. Adam GowerI didn't want to give the impression that I have an opinion really about the overall economy. I don't study that enough. I look at only factors that impact commercial real estate. Right, you know there is a lot of uncertainty right now. I'm an optimist, but I'm not looking forward very much to the next few months. There's a lot of geopolitical issues going on in the world, of course in the Middle East, in Ukraine, saber-attling in China with Taiwan, and there's all kinds of issues that really could make the world look extremely different than it does even today. Anyway, so that's just one point.
Dr. Adam GowerAs far as the soft line, I'm talking about only real estate, and commercial real estate is going to hit some very, very hard times. But you're right, that does mean opportunity. Right, that's exactly right. So as long as you're positioning yourself right and keeping the eye out and you know what actually you've been looking for two years eventually you'll be right. Yes, you've been right. I mean, that's the point by having patience like one of the key words in these parts or periods of the real estate cycle. Patience is your friend. You've got to be patient and keep an eye, otherwise you buy something now and the market keeps on going down and you just caught a falling sword, as they say.
Ed MathewsRight, yeah, it's interesting. I saw some similar reports that you saw, and my comments are specific to commercial real estate as well, in that I saw a presentation by Moody's back in I want to say it was December or January of this year, talking about exactly what you brought up earlier. The number I saw was 23% of the mortgages that were financed over the last three years or underwater and will be able to be refinanced 23.
Dr. Adam Gower23. Mortgages what kind of mortgages are?
Ed Mathewsyou talking about, in terms of adjustable rate mortgages, debt for multifamily properties.
Dr. Adam GowerIt's significantly higher than that, ed, really, yeah, yeah, it's close. Anything financed at the beginning of I mean not anything, but 90% of whatever was financed using bridge debt starting in early 2021 is underwater. Suggests that it's worth less than the debt. There's a good chance of that, but 90% of it is not worth what they paid for it by a significant margin 25%, 30% declines in values, yeah, and so underwater technically that means that it's not worth enough to cover the debt. So I'm not sure if that's exactly where everything is, but it's bouncing along that level.
Dr. Adam GowerMost deals are barely worth the debt on them, and that's why they're really struggling. And that's why sponsors are also struggling, yeah, because they have to make the case to their investors. Look, we need to buy another rate cap. We need to do obviously, it's a bigger scale right? Right, we need more capital to cover debt service or whatever whatever over shortages they have, yeah, and so it's a difficult decision both for them and also for their investors. Like, why are we doing this? Are we putting good money after bad? Right, if we're investing in something, putting more money into this thing today, but it's worth 30% less than when we invested in it, why would I do that. Why wouldn't I just invest in something else?
Ed MathewsRight, so let's talk about capital calls and rescue capital.
Dr. Adam GowerYeah, okay, capital calls and rescue capital. All right, all right, so anyway. So I've just written a book. Yeah, is there on my website, if you don't mind me mentioning it gowacrowcom, that's my last name, goer crowdcom, and it's there on the homepage. You'll scan down a bit. I'll put it somewhere higher up later. I'm going to link in the show notes as well. Thank you, that'd be great. So why?
Ed Mathewsdon't I write this book.
Dr. Adam GowerWell, everything about raising capital and this is what we do, right. We help sponsors raise capital is education. That's all it is. Basically, all you're doing is teaching people what is real estate investing, what are all the aspects of real estate investing. So what has been taught, not just by me, but by my clients, because we show them how to do it over the last few years are the niceties and the details of investing in real estate, whatever asset class you happen to be in during a bull market, in other words, when the market is going up. This is how it works when the market is going up, and so you talk about IRR or you talk about the different kinds of multifamily, the walkups and whatever garden apartments, whatever you've got all these different kinds. So you teach prospects, you teach your investors what are the different kinds. It's kind of foundational. It is real estate syndication, real estate investing 101. That's all we've been doing for the last 10 years. Now, as we go into a severe downturn and I'm mixing my metaphors here and they're not missing whatever I'm doing something missing, mixing something. Now it is real estate syndication 2.0. I'm not sure if that's 101 or a 201, whatever it's 2.0.
Dr. Adam GowerSecond, it's time for next generation education. The next generation education is the language of a downturn. So, for example, what is a capital call? Let's start right there. What's a rate cap Not a cap rate? A rate cap. What is SOFA Not the thing that you sit on to watch TV SOFR, what's SOFA? Why have rate caps become so expensive? Why does that matter? Et cetera, et cetera. These are new terms that nobody has really needed to pay any attention to because the market was always going up. So capital calls and rescue capital. My new book really covers the details of where we are, why we are where we are, and actually talks about this whole thing. I don't know if you have audio or video podcasts yeah, okay. So video, if you are watching this behind me is a white. If you're not watching it and you're listening behind me is a whiteboard is a whiteboard with a crazy diagram here.
Dr. Adam GowerSo and what it talks about is, in digital marketing, when you try to do anybody it doesn't matter what business you're in, you are you try. You build what are called funnels, right. So you create even an advert somewhere. An ad is the top of funnel piece of marketing that you put out that you want millions of people, as many people see as possible, and those people that engage with your ad they move through your funnel, right. So the more somebody engages with you, the fewer people there are, until eventually, in capital formation, when you're raising money, there's only a very tiny number of people relative to all of those who know who you are, who actually invest, and that's the neck of the funnel. So it's called a funnel and any progress through a funnel is essentially voluntary. You learn more about somebody and you like them, so you learn more, and then you read something else and then you watch the thing and you just get to know I can trust them and it's a very pleasant thing for you as an investor.
Dr. Adam GowerWhat happens during a downturn? Yeah, sucked into a vortex, the real estate syndication vortex, and a vortex is where suddenly a deal that you invested in, runs out money, it creates a vacuum and you get sucked into it. You don't have an option. Now, of course, you have an option whether or not you're going to fund a capital call, but you've really got to pay attention to what's going on. You really should have done it in the first place. Now you're sucked in, basically a vortex, and so that is. And the vortex looks like this.
Dr. Adam GowerThe first thing that happens if you're a passive investor right, if you're a limited partner in a deal is oftentimes the first thing that happens is your sponsor, the general partner in your deal, will go quiet. Suddenly they'll go quiet. That's worst case scenario. So this is the worst case scenario. The next thing that happens is you get an email I've actually seen some of these that says we've run out of money. We need more from you. According to the contract, you need to pony up another 50% of whatever it was you invested in or we're going to dilute you. And I've actually seen emails like that from investors that have written to me and said my sponsor went quiet and just got this email out of the blue with wiring instructions. By the way, it's like why are you going to be kidding me?
Ed MathewsThat's first contact your phone call just an email saying an email no contact for six months.
Dr. Adam GowerWe've run out of money and we need more. You owe us or we'll dilute you. Here's this wiring instruction. Oh and, by the way, you need to do it by Friday, so that's the next. This is kind of the worst kind of vortex. Then the next thing that happens is that sponsors are unable to raise money from their existing investors, and that's the first step that they take is to go to a capital call.
Dr. Adam GowerSo they call it what's called rescue capital. It's kind of a colloquialism, I think, but it is commonly used rescue capital and rescue capital, third party investors, debt funds, preff, equity providers, preferred equity providers. The way that those work is that they will come in and we're working with a few now and we're working on some deals, but they bring high octane money to the table. So they will look at the deal. They'll decide does this deal, is this deal going to survive, right? I mean, under any circumstance, this is a good deal. 70% of deals at the moment aren't ever going to survive. They're going to be foreclosed on, they're going to be lost to the lenders, etc. But for those that do survive, they will provide a rescue capital shot and I'm oversimplifying this. But basically we'll come in and say we're going to lend you the money that you need at typically mid-teens interest rates, so we'll call it 15% and, most importantly though, it is priority debt, so it comes before the limited partners equity, so it's an additional layer of debt that has to be paid off with interest before any distributions are made to the limited partners.
Dr. Adam GowerSo that is the last phase of the syndication vortex, and my book, capital Calls and Rescue Capital really goes into this in detail. And actually also, ed, because I've been through this a few times, actually a couple times in my career the savings and loan crisis of the early 90s and then the global financial crisis what I decided to do was to interview other people that have been through multiple cycles. So it's like a $7 book, it's like a nothing thing, and I also I like to say it's guaranteed as well. So if you don't like it, I'll give you $7 back, but it comes with now. Actually, by the time I finish tomorrow, it'll be probably over six hours of training with both from me and also from other sponsors, and it is for anybody that is invested in a syndication is either a sponsor, general partner or a limited partner. It is probably, I don't know some just sound really sales, and I don't mean to, but it is probably the most important thing that you could do is to really dive into this.
Dr. Adam GowerWe also include I just recorded a segment on all the definitions, all these terms that I just talked about, and I'll tell you why, ed, you're going to realize you probably have realized this. Actually, if you've been watching my podcast, you know that I ask questions and then sit quietly. But if you've not seen me on a podcast, you've not realized that. Just, I'm happy to talk, but I've been on capital calls where sponsors need $6 to $10 million on a $100 million deal and what their biggest failing? And we actually advise sponsors on how to avoid this, but they're not very good at it, even with our advice.
Dr. Adam GowerAnd so I decided to fill the gap.
Dr. Adam GowerBecause what they tend to do on capital call webinars, for example, when they do email you and say, look, we're in trouble, we need to get some more capital, join us on a webinar is they forget that their investors, their limited partners, are not professional real estate investors, they're not in the market fighting the good fight, and so they speak in really advanced jargon, really advanced technical language that only they and other professionals understand, and so it just goes over your head.
Dr. Adam GowerAnd my view is that if you really want to be successful in raising capital at any time, during the good times, you need to educate, but during a bad times as well, you also need to educate and explain to people what it is you're talking about, because the more people understand what's happening, the more likely they are to act and do what you want them to do. If they have questions still lingering their mind, they're just they're going to shy away and so, exactly so. That's exactly what this book and the training behind it is all geared towards really is to filling the gap, the education gap that is just completely absent. This syndication 2.0, you don't see it anywhere, but you're going to start seeing it for me fairly heavily in the next few days.
Yeah, Anyway, looking forward to it. So so Adam is is, we've been, we've been on for a little bit, so I've got to. I got to move on to our final four, which is our final four questions. So you know someone of your accomplishments and stature, you know, invariably you've had mentors and teachers and coaches along the way, and I'm curious about those people and, specifically, what is the best advice you've ever gotten and who gave it to you?
Dr. Adam GowerOh gosh, the best advice I ever got. Yeah, I would say, you know, you've caught me on a wire, actually, but I'm glad because that's the purpose. Yeah, the first thing that comes to mind is most interesting. All right, so the first thing that comes to mind was a fellow called Aji Katsuyama. I will mention his name. He was a Japanese investor of mine during the 1980s and, and when I started to look, when I got to Japan I'll keep this short and I will keep this short but he actually sponsored me when I was there and after after we've done the preliminaries and got everything set up and etc. Etc he actually said to me Adam, it's like within the first week of my arrival in there, this is the first time, the last time I'm going to speak to you in English, come back when you speak Japanese. And so I was kind of left alone in this, in this world, and so that's how I learned to speak Japanese was kind of through force of A burning of the boats D-pad yeah.
Dr. Adam GowerWhat I learned from him was long term perspective.
Dr. Adam GowerWhat I learned a lot in Japan was long term perspective that, especially in real estate, you've got to have a long-term perspective. Quick flipping is a temporary I mean, people make a lot of money doing that but I have always been more inclined especially as I get older and more appreciative of the long-term perspective and investing for something that will yield results in years to come. It doesn't necessarily have to only be how you invest in real estate long-term perspective although anybody that did have a long-term perspective over the last few years and there are a few out there are not in the same trouble as all the rest are today but it also applies to anything like how you educate yourself and how you learn and how you grow. You do things today that don't maybe today immediately benefit you, but if you acquire skill, skills, you know that they're going to benefit you through the rest of your life, and so that was a very profound experience and lesson that I learned from a wonderful man many, many years ago in Japanese, yeah in Japanese right, so it was even more profound.
Ed MathewsSo the next question, then, is leaders tend to be leaders, and so I'm always curious about business leaders and people that run companies and folks like you and me. What are, who are the authors or creators you're paying attention to, and how do you consume information, whether it's through books, audio books, webinars you name it.
Dr. Adam GowerYeah, gosh what a good question, actually, and I'm actually going to ask this back at you, in fact, in a minute. So recently I have been obsessed with reading stories about prior downturns, the savings loan crisis and also the global financial crisis. So a couple of books that I read and they're long, you know, they're big, thick, they're really thick, some of them really a grind to get through. Oh, trust me was another one. But and that was about what was his name, having just read the book and I've forgotten his name it was, anyway, lincoln's Savings and Loan in the 90s.
Dr. Adam GowerBut so I read dense books Charles Bagley's book Other People's Money about Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village this huge $5.3 billion multifamily deal. That was the biggest of its kinds, fascinating and there's. I mean, when you read through that there's so many. I mean just I'm actually quoting things in my LinkedIn post that I'm writing these like quoting from the book, because it's what you're hearing today. It's the exact same thing, except it was in 2006,. When they bought this, you know, six, how many years ago is that? 16, 17 years ago?
Dr. Adam GowerThe other book I read recently was Michael Lewis's Big Short, again, and that's about how the global financial crisis was driven by residential mortgage collapse and I actually think, the exact same things happening in multifamily today, the exact same thing. So if you look at the dynamics of Rezzi in the global financial crisis, we're going to see that in the coming years, coming months and years for commercial. So that's one thing. I like to read heavy books, linkedin and I mentioned this earlier Twitter only because my feeds are very dense on commercial real estate investing, so they're high value, basically, and I like podcasts, but I'm going to ask you what podcast do you like?
Ed MathewsSo I tend to consume books about real estate. But when it comes to podcasts, so I'm a marketer by trade, right? So sales and marketing guys, so I tend to listen to podcasts. So I listen to marketing school Neil Patel, eric, sue, oh, I see the marketing ones.
Ed MathewsOkay, yeah because I want to get smarter, because, you know, the fact is that the world is changing, technology wise and messaging wise and so I want to understand how AI affects our, the way that we go to market and introduce ourselves to potential investors, building owners, brokers, wholesalers and the such, and so I want to. We're a small company, so I'm looking. You know I look at technology as a force multiplier and so I'm always looking for ideas in terms of how to be most efficient with our messaging, how to use technology to be that force multiplier so we can reach more people and help people, and so I pay a lot of attention to marketing. So you know I follow folks way outside of this real estate world. Seth Godin I listened to his podcast. I listened to Hormozies both Lila and Alakard Alakard Hormozies podcasts, you know Cody Sanchez, I pay attention to. There's several.
Dr. Adam GowerAll right, so anyway, podcasts are a useful source and the reason that I like podcasts are because they're on demand. So you get in the car, you got a 30 minute drive somewhere I. The first thing I'll do before I get in the car is all right, what am I going to listen to? Lobber up, and I can spend that time productively. I'm certainly not going to listen to a podcast during the day, when I can be interacting with work and my task list, but dead time in the car it's the perfect time.
Dr. Adam GowerSo those are my main sources, yeah fantastic.
Ed MathewsSo let me ask you if you had to start over, what would?
Dr. Adam Goweryou do differently, yeah, so okay, I'm glad that you did ask that, because that is one that I have been asked, so I'm prepared for that. But it is the truth. The answer the spontaneous, I'll say is the truth. It is the spontaneous answer that I came up with last time because it's so, so true, and that is I would take bigger risks. I've always been risk averse. But to risk averse and the example that comes to mind is I grew up in America.
Dr. Adam GowerWhen I got here in San Diego, california, and there's a little ultra wealthy suburb there called La Jolla, little town. It's called La Jolla, and I was a renter, you know, I was doing whatever, anything I would do anything for $5 an hour, whatever it was, you know kind of labor, whatever I would do. So I didn't have a lot of money and I needed to rent a place and I saw this little house and it was right downtown La Jolla and it's beautiful. It's like a five bedroom, gorgeous, little, beautiful little house right downtown. And I remember and I can't remember the exact number, said honestly, because it's so long ago, but I remember looking at it, thinking well, I could, it was way out of my price range this whole house. But I looked at it and I thought you know, there are four spare bedrooms there and if I rented them for what I'm paying now, not only would I live rent free, but I'd actually make some money from it.
Dr. Adam GowerBut I didn't take the risk Damn it. I should have done. I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to get other tenants in there and that I would end up not being able to meet my debt service. Basically, I wouldn't be able to pay the rent. So I didn't take the risk and I regret it because if I had, I imagine it would have led to heck. I could do this again. In fact, I wonder if the guy will sell me the house. I wonder if that will work, and then it might have grown from that. So I think the answer to your question is I would have taken bigger risks.
Ed MathewsLove that.
Dr. Adam GowerLove that.
Ed MathewsYeah, so. So, adam, when you're not talking about real estate or rescue capital, what do you like to do? How do you have fun?
Dr. Adam GowerRight. So what do I do to have fun? Well, I live on a bay and last weekend I wanted a bit of solitude so I rented a kayak that we used to call in canoes in England, a kayak and I rode out since the middle of this bay at Hightide it was a lovely warm day, the lovely light breeze and kind of moored this thing in the middle of the bay, just surrounded by the birds. We actually, on this, where we live, there's a bird migration superhighways, so we're right on the coast. Everything that goes up and down the west coast of America lies through and parks themselves in this bay for parts of the year as they go up and down to migrate. And so I just sat there with the birds and fell asleep, and actually it's a very shallow bay, so I stripped off to my trolleys. I wasn't planning on it and there's nobody around, so I just jumped in and trolleys me. Now I was wearing my shorts, I didn't skinny dip or anything, because there are people around like me with binoculars looking to see what's going on.
Dr. Adam GowerObviously, you do see what's going on there's no real privacy, but I did sit down and I went through a swim and I enjoyed that very much. That was very peaceful, sounds wonderful.
Ed MathewsYeah, my wife. Actually, my wife and I gave each other a two-person canoe for our 25th wedding anniversary and I have yet to get her to come on it. But where do you? So I live on the East Coast in Connecticut and we have a place up in Rhode Island and there's a nice inlet there, that nice calm water. If you fall off your shoulder deep in the water, so no one's going to, it's not going to be a problem. So that is Saturday mornings when we're up in Rhode Island. Being able to go out to the middle of the inlet and just breathe is yeah.
Dr. Adam GowerExactly really wonderful. You know exactly what I'm talking about. So I don't do it often enough actually. Yeah, I wish I did it more. I did just this last weekend. It was a wonderful thing, wonderful.
Ed MathewsSo, adam, I've really enjoyed this conversation. It's a pleasure to speak with you and I'm grateful for your time today. If folks want to learn more about your book or your coaching and mentoring programs or anything else about you, what is the best way to get a hold of you?
Dr. Adam GowerThank, you so much for asking. So really the best way is just go to my website, gowacrowcom, again. G-o-w-e -R. It's my last name, gowacrowcom, and I have a newsletter. It's a free newsletter, it goes out every Wednesday and there's a big red subscribe button. So just go ahead and subscribe and you'll start getting emails from me, and then, as soon as you get one, just hit reply.
Ed MathewsThat is really the best way to get in touch and I speaking from experience, it's an outstanding newsletter. I learn something new every week, so I highly recommend it to the audience. Thanks, adam, once again. Adam, it is truly a pleasure, and thank you again for carving out some time in your busy day to meet with us.
Dr. Adam GowerPleasure is all mine. Thanks for having me All right.