Real Estate Underground

From Gold Bricks to Gold Coins: Real Estate Tokenization with Tyler Vinson

• Ed Mathews • Season 5 • Episode 188

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Tyler Vinson has spent 25 years in investment real estate, from duplexes and flips to multifamily, commercial, and Class A storage. Now he's building the infrastructure to bring real estate into the digital age as the founder of RE Tokens, one of only about 10 companies in the US with an SEC-registered digital broker dealer ATS license, and the only one focused exclusively on real estate.

In this episode, Tyler breaks down what real estate tokenization actually is, how it enhances (not replaces) traditional syndication, and why it matters for both GPs and LPs. He explains how restricted shares can become tradeable digital assets, how non-accredited investors can participate after 12 months under Rule 144, and what the secondary marketplace looks like in practice. He also shares the personal story that became his mission: a friend from high school who wanted to invest but didn't qualify.

We also get into the lessons Tyler learned from being over-leveraged during the 2008 financial crisis, his disciplined approach to education, and why the future of real estate investing is undeniably digital.

What you'll learn in this episode:
- What real estate tokenization is and how it works (the gold brick to gold coins analogy)
- How tokenization creates a pathway to liquidity for traditionally illiquid LP positions
- The SEC compliance framework: Rule 144, ATS marketplaces, and why registration matters
- How non-accredited investors can access deals that were previously off limits
- Why over-leverage is the #1 risk in real estate and how Tyler rebuilt after 2008

Book on Tyler's nightstand: The Power of the Subconscious Mind by Dr. Joseph Murphy

Connect with Tyler Vinson and RE Tokens:
- Website: retokens.com (free Quick Start Guide to Real Estate Tokenization)
- LinkedIn: Tyler Vinson / RE Tokens
- YouTube: RE Tokens

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  • LinkedIn -> Ed Mathews (President at Clark St and Elevista)
Tyler Vinson

The future of finance, money, assets, all of it. Is on blockchain is digital. It is a digital future. There is zero question about that. The ship has sailed and most assets actually participate in that digital ecosystem right now. But real estate's been left behind until now.

Ed Mathews

If you're within three feet of me, we're probably talking about real estate, much to my family chagrin. But here's the thing, most people see 7% rates in freeze. I see opportunity. They're waiting for the perfect deal and well, I've vandalized thousands of them and perfect just doesn't exist. So I talk to operators across every asset class, flippers, multifamily, syndicators, note investors, and whatever else is working. No sales pitches allowed, just real lessons from people actually doing it. I'm Ed Mathews, and this is Real Estate Underground. Greetings and salutations real estate underground. It is Ed Mathews with the Real Estate Underground. Thank you so much for joining us today. Keep those comments coming as well as obviously a lot of, you can text the show directly, text me directly through the show notes and I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what. What is resonating and as important, I also want to know about what you want to hear about, right? Because, this real estate world is a big, great big world. And we're excited to bring in new and unique guests who come at this space from a lot of different places and, with technology where it's going. With tokenization in crypto, which we're gonna talk about today. Not the crypto part, but the as well as our artificial intelligence and all of the things that are happening in this world there's a lot to talk about. So keep those comments coming. I'm greatly, I'm grateful for all the information you guys send me. And thank you again for following. So with me today is, tyler Vincent of re tokens. See, I didn't lie. I was, I promised tokenization and here I am delivering. Tyler, welcome to the show. It's good to see you, my friend.

Tyler Vinson

Oh, I appreciate you inviting me. Excited to be here.

Ed Mathews

So I gotta be honest with you, man, when I hear tokenization, I immediately go to NFTs and Crypto, and I am one of those human beings that just doesn't get it. And not negative or positive, I just I honestly haven't spent enough time to understand the opportunity. And I've had multiple people in my life. Most of them are a lot smarter than I am. Explained to me that no, this is something you need to pay attention to. And when we discovered I had an opportunity to read your book and which we can talk about a little later. And but that was, more about cash flow and multifamily, but the the opportunity to meet you and actually. Ask a whole bunch of questions to a person who's actually a world expert on this is a great opportunity for me and the audience, so welcome.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. No, I appreciate that. I think, educating people is a big part of it. 'cause it gets really easy to overcomplicate or misconstrue and get lost in the technology side when there, there's really no need to do that. Yeah, happy to get into that.

Ed Mathews

And I'm one of those guys, right? I immediately make it way more complex than it is, and I know that. Knowing you have a problem is half the battle. So here we go. So in terms of who you are and what you do, why don't you break it down for us? Let's start with your background and then we can get into the business.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. My background is, going into year 25 now of investment real estate. That's who I am and what I've done. And I still do acquisitions and dispositions every single year. Raise private capital and do all of the traditional real estate things. That's what led me into this. Really have done it all from, I started out in duplexes started buying some duplexes and then I don't know, flipped maybe 30 or 40 homes. 50 or 60, I dunno. It was a long time ago. I don't flip homes anymore. But really got into the longer term rental game and fell in love with multifamily just due to the ability to standardize and scale. And that means you're scaling profits. Later did a lot more commercial. I've done office buildings in retail and, my class a storage facilit is probably my favorite investment right now that I currently own. And so there's just a spectrum of things. But I specialize in creative finance and deal structure. Lots of seller financing things and teaching sellers the tax advantages of that and just creative real estate deals with investors. And that's what actually brought me to fall in love with tokenization is just that entire ecosystem of investment real estate and the shortcomings that are involved with it.

Ed Mathews

Liquidity is always a big challenge, right? I think that's part of what we're talking about here. So let's talk about that. When you look at, when I think about tokenization, I also think in parallel to syndication, right? And I'm a limited partner. On, a whole bunch of different deals here on the East Coast and down south. And so I get that part of it. I've, I've been a general partner and I've also, like I said, I'm also a, an LP on a whole bunch of deals. But the the question I have is. How does syndication differ from tokenization? I know there's a difference and and so I'm gonna ask you some really dumb open-ended questions and so until I can get my caveman brain around it

Tyler Vinson

Yeah, no problem. I think we can get that accomplished today, ed, and Cool. And break it down. So you'll be the hero of the cocktail party stories after this with token. No, I'm just gonna call

Ed Mathews

my friend Tyler and have you explain it, but that's cool.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. There you go. Let's actually. Tokenization is simply an enhancement to syndication, not a replacement or a disruption of it but a massive enhancement to it. So let's just take a quick step back Sure. And talk about what the heck is tokenization? What are these guys talking about? What does it mean? To tokenize real estate. What it is you exactly, you just talked about gps who sponsor deals and then LPs who invest in the deals and those syndications. When you do that as an operator, a syn indicator, what you're doing is you're selling. LLC membership units, or you can call them shares Sure. To investors. And that's what they, own at least on paper, right? Yeah. Tokenization is simply making those ownership units, those LLC membership units or those shares. Digital, giving them a digital ownership component. And when you give them that digital ownership component, that's what tokenization is. And when they have that digital ownership component, we can record it on the blockchain. And the blockchain opens the door to all sorts of, different. Capital markets and ecosystems. The future of finance, money, assets, all of it. Is on blockchain is digital. It is a digital future. There is zero question about that. The ship has sailed and most assets actually participate in that digital ecosystem right now. But real estate's been left behind until now. Real estate's been illiquid. You, you, there isn't that ownership. You can't trade those shares. That we've talked about, and that's what we're changing here. So to give folks a visual, the way I like to visualize it for real estate is, let's say that you've got a, an apartment building and it's like a big gold brick, right? A great asset, very valuable, tangible, real world, big gold brick. But. It's really hard to get in and outta ownership of a really large gold brick.

Ed Mathews

Yep.

Tyler Vinson

And if a few people go in together into this gold brick, they have to do everything together at the same time. So if you're gonna sell the gold brick, everybody sells the gold brick. If you're gonna get a loan against the gold brick, everybody gets a loan against the gold brick. Now imagine taking that gold brick and turning it into. 10 million gold coins that both the GP or the syndicator, as well as the LP investors all get to hold their own gold coins, their own piece of that gold, and now they can choose. How long they stay in the deal, or don't stay in the deal. In the near future, they'll actually be able to get loans against those tokens as instead of, jeopardizing the title. So there's all sorts of cool things that have happened in what we call the Web3 world, the blockchain world, the new digital economy that will allow you to use your private shares of real estate, your real estate investment. In, in this world. And so that's really where, what tokenization is and the effects of it. And we can certainly get into the benefits of, okay, so now you have these. Tokens, it's digital ownership. We can get into what it does.

Ed Mathews

Yeah. So tons of questions now. So that was a really good explanation and it the light bulb went off in my head. When I think about what you just said, right? I harken back to my days in, in the tech world where I had a whole bunch of shares what were they called? Restricted shares. And, so they were worth something. But opinions varied on what they were actually worth. 'cause there's really no market. And I was locked up. I was locked up until 180 days after the the company went public before I could, cash in my four shares of whatever company I was with. And. There were people, so this was, so I'm, in my mid fifties so that, I'm going back probably 15 years at this point. This was pre blockchain. I think it was probably a, the I'm trying to remember the gentleman's name. The Japanese software engineer who created the blockchain? Oh, Satoshi. Satoshi. Thank you all. All I can think was Sahara o and that was, he, yeah. Yeah. He could hit baseballs, but he couldn't I don't think he knows anything about the blockchain. Yeah, the

Tyler Vinson

Bitcoin white paper. Yeah.

Ed Mathews

Yeah. And or Jack Dorsey the founder of Twitter who's who's allegedly Satoshi. But who knows? He's smart enough to be, but the, I'm curious about when I hear what you were just explaining I think of the lockup, right? And so in terms of that lockup, real estate is very similar, right? We've got. Part of the whole con conversation that like I have with potential limited partners when we've got a syndication is, Hey, look if you need your money back, here's the process we would have to go through to make that happen. It's hard. And a lot of times we have to say no or not yet, right? And if you foresee that you're gonna need this money in the next, year, 18 months or whatever, this is probably not a good fit for you, right? This is a three to five to plus, year investment that is fairly illiquid, right? And what I'm hearing is that tokenization kind of unlocks that potential equity. Two questions off the top, off the top. One is am I explaining that correctly, that it provides liquidity, basically provides a market for your membership units or your shares? Yeah.

Tyler Vinson

No, not tokenization in general. We'll unpack what you said, 'cause it has a lot to do with securities law actually.

Ed Mathews

Yeah. Okay. And the second question is, part of the process, and I know you know this 'cause you've sat in the seat as well of being a syndicator, a general partner, is, you're dating a whole lot of people but you only get married to a few. And and what I mean by that is there are a whole bunch of people out there that are interested in investing in real estate. But there's only, the projects I run, I think the projects that you run are, 5 0 6 ds. So those require accredited investors, and that means that the person or the couple, earn. 200 K as an individual, 300 K for the last, what, three years. And the expectation that's gonna continue. And they've got a, million dollar plus net worth and whole other bunch of ways you can qualify, but those are the kind of the generals. And so that's not a lot of the population, right? And you are culling down your potential. And then within that is the do the limited partners. Have a vision that is congruent with yours. And that's the dating part is, okay, I, Tyler likes me as a, and he's the general partner, but if I'm a, if I'm a pain in the neck, Tyler's probably gonna date me and then not marry me. And and there's some of that out there. And how does tokenizing real estate when a general partner has gone through vetting their investors? How does tokenization affect that relationship?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. Yeah. No, a lot to unpack there. So if everybody will bear with me. We I'll run you through the ecosystem and we'll answer all of those questions. Cool. And feel free to listen to this section twice if you're new to it. 'cause We'll, I didn't say the questions

Ed Mathews

would be easy.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. No. I love it though. It's important. It's important because it all plays. Like how does this, work? What does it mean? How does it change things? And I think the first thing we need to start with is fundamentally, these are real estate investments. And actually, let me just I am not gonna give any securities advice. I'm not soliciting securities information, tax or legal. We're gonna talk about those things right now. But it's just for educational purposes.

Ed Mathews

Yep.

Tyler Vinson

Okay. Yeah. So when you do a syndication, like you mentioned you've got restricted shares and real estate is traditionally very illiquid. And to your point, I'm a syndicator myself, and when I raised capital from investors in the past, it was, Hey, if you need this money within the next five years, this isn't gonna be the fit for you. Because yes we may have an exit strategy in five years or so, but. Depending on the market and what's going on, and I hear a lot of syndications that run five years, 10 years, some a lot longer. And so to your point they're very illiquid when it comes to that. And that is something that we're changing. So here's the ecosystem and how it runs. So there's security, so it starts with that. And the security documents we rent mint, the tokens, what we have at re tokens is an SEC registered secondary marketplace. It's called an a TS. We are, I think last check, there's only 10 or so companies in the United States that have a digital broker dealer, a TS license, like ARI tokens, capital does, and I'm not aware of any others that are exclusive to real estate like we are. So just want to lay that out there. And that doesn't actually have anything to do with tokenization itself.

Ed Mathews

No,

Tyler Vinson

but it's the tokenization, huge

Ed Mathews

credibility and trust factor, right?

Tyler Vinson

It's everything. Yeah. Yeah. It's what,

Ed Mathews

when you can say that you're a member of finra, right? And that, you enjoy the same level of commitments around ethics and the rules you follow and all that, that, you're a local financial advisor that you know, you, that you know, also follows. That is several levels above a lot of the the players in the real estate market and what we're talking about, right?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. No, it's, IM important. The levels of due diligence and compliance really is a huge part of what we do. So what we had to do to make all that work is you have restricted share. So there's still particular lockup periods, so on and so forth, but for example. When we talk Reg D 5 0 6 C, like you said, that is a exemption to registration on a primary raise. It's a safe harbor that allows you to do that,

Ed Mathews

right?

Tyler Vinson

On a secondary marketplace or a resell of those, whether it's a GP or an LP, able to resell, there's an exemption called Rule 1 44. So this is how they fit together. We have a entire backend infrastructure that we had to build that is what we call a Web3 infrastructure. That means we've taken a transfer agent, which is required for the ownership change. We've taken custodians, which holds the assets and holds the currency. We've got escrow accounts built in there, and then we have an a TS matching engine and all that. People don't need to know what that is. Just, that's the mechanics under the hood of what we do. The interface is simply going to be, clicking on a few buttons. So what happens though is restricted shares, for example we're talking often about there, there's two restrictions I want to touch on. One of 'em is under Rule 1 44. After 12 months, non-accredited investors can buy these, what were originally Reg D 5 0 6 C shares. And that's a huge game changer, right? Is now when you go trade on the secondary market, non-accredited investors can participate. And when you tokenize it. You are, you're just taking that big gold brick and fractionalizing that ownership, like gold coins. So somebody could sell, let's say somebody invested a hundred thousand originally, and they've made. I don't know, 10,000 over that year they could sell 1000 in tokens, 10,000 in tokens, 50,000 a hundred, and then, same with the the buyer aspect and us as a broker dealer and as a platform, it's our job to make sure that all of this is happening in a compliant manner. And when that infrastructure is laid out, right? Everything is moving online. So people can invest online, they can see your deal online, they sign the paperwork online, they're, these custody accounts are hooked to transfer that online. We even have AI integrated into the platform to help communicate with investors. So when you talk about the dating part and yeah, I, when I raised private capital, these were very personal relationships. They were. Sitting down for lunches and so on and so forth, and I think on the primary raises especially. Large investors or investors that you like a lot, that part may not change as much, except they're not having to go to their bank and wire funds, or they're not having to get a cashier's check. They just have an account that's hooked to their bank account and that all transacts. But you can choose the level of interaction there. But when you open it up like you do on our platform, and you may have a global. Audience at this point, even if it's a Reg D 5 0 6 C, they can be from another country as long as they can go through accreditation and a ML and what's called KYC, know your customer and still invest. So it's really important that you have larger communication and automation systems built in. An example I like to give is just because you invest in Amazon doesn't mean you get to call Jeff Bezos, right? He doesn't return

Ed Mathews

my calls or Andy,

Tyler Vinson

Jeff either, yeah. And I think when you talk about, trading assets like that, it's typically the case. Now, maybe there are some investors that can't call Jeff, right? Or so on and so forth. But the key is you want disclosure and communication and all of those things. So with the technology that's there, that can be made available. And because this stuff is put on the blockchain, all the data's extremely transparent as well. And so that is a confidence builder. In itself for that. So that's normally what we do is we'll mint the real estate tokens, put 'em on the blockchain, they go on the platform. It has all of these automations for the investors. It's very much a, what we call a web two experience. So it's like your online banking account. Or investment softwares that you're used to. All of that infrastructure's hooked on the back end. So they're able to actually see their ownership piece. They could move it if they want, and then after 12 months they can put it on the secondary market. And accredited and family office and funds, everybody has access to that. So at the end of the day, what we're talking about is these private placement shares of real estate being able to trade similar to the way stocks and more recently, crypto trades today and those assets themselves have been turned digital. And because of this infrastructure that I described. They're all they're not directly fungible, meaning directly tradable, but they are, you, they all participate in the ecosystem. For example, you could use a stable coin or a Bitcoin or regular US dollars to invest in these real estate tokens. Yep. Doesn't mean the seller has to take that. There's a conversion, but you see all of this plays and so real estate. Now can settle within minutes versus months, and that really takes out a lot of the middle expense involved as well.

Ed Mathews

Fascinating. And so who sets the market?

Tyler Vinson

As far as the market pricing

Ed Mathews

Yeah. Who makes that market, right? Exactly.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So bear with me as I geek out a little bit please. And we understand these. Yeah. There's a couple kinds of markets, if you get on Coinbase or if you get on most of the public stock markets, there's something in the middle called the market maker. And that's who's really making the market because you're not actually transacting buyer to seller to buyer. You're transacting with that middle person who makes a spread in the market, and they'll set that. I do think that ultimately there will be a market maker. In fact, we're having those conversations in the real estate token world. But they also make a spread, right? So there's pros and cons. Sure. They're

Ed Mathews

adding, they're providing a service and adding value to that transaction

Tyler Vinson

yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I agree. It's worth it for the liquidity and potential stability and stuff, but in the early days of this as an order book system. And if you're gonna sell a real estate token, then you are going to, choose the price and list that. And as part of Rule 1 44, and as part of our compliance as a platform, all of the. Public front facing information, the financials, the sponsors, the tax returns, probably all of those types of things are gonna be available to potential investors. When they invest in that, they're gonna be able to see that on the secondary marketplace when they purchase it.

Ed Mathews

Interesting. Interesting. Plus and minus that right? If you and I are part of a. Syndicate. And Joe Smith is the gp and, I run into financial trouble and I need out of this investment. How does that, and so obviously I'm a distressed seller as opposed to a, selling from strength. How does that affect the overall value here?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. I don't think it does. Okay. It's just like real estate in terms of sometimes you get a heck of a deal 'cause you got a distress seller. Okay. And sometimes interest rates are really low and there's high demand and, you're gonna fi pay full full boat market. But it's not like crypto. To your point, this is not crypto, it's not a speculative investment in terms. 'cause if the real estate itself is putting out. A, 7% cash on cash return. Ba based on the, let's say a hundred dollars investment, let's say, we'll just call it a hundred dollars token. Okay. Or a thousand dollars token. It's putting out a 7% cash on cash. The NOI is on there. The cap rate's on there. That's how these things are evaluated. Yep. Appraisals and stuff like that. Maybe somebody. It lists it for 1,100 and now your cash on cash return would be 6.3. And you can, choose to buy it at that. Or maybe somebody's or I did that backward. Yeah. I'm sorry. And then somebody listed at 900. Instead of a thousand and now your cash on cash return is seven and three quarters, right? Even a distressed seller. So there's still a real world asset here. It's the real estate with the real actual cash flow, the real K one tax benefits, the real appreciation. It's that gold coin of the actual real thing. That piece of the real thing. So I have no doubt that the market may fluctuate in pricing, but that's how markets move anyway. The difference between real estate and some of these private company markets is there's not valuations based on users or. Typically poten, there, there're fundamentals that are involved in real estate that don't change. So I don't think you'll see the same type of volatility until we get way down the road and there's derivatives and things like, that'll probably be, yeah, that's right.

Ed Mathews

That's a different, that's

Tyler Vinson

a different, a dif different game. Yeah. But that's it. 'cause we have to underwrite this. Once the deal is approved, anybody, GP or LP that holds those tokens can list on the marketplace. And same with the buyers. They may see some different assets in there and say gosh, they're, selling that at a six and a half cap. I would buy it at a seven cap. So I'm gonna put a bid out there and then a seller could choose. And if the buyer and seller ultimately choose to act on, this order book, then the system automatically makes it. Or you can just go in and say, you know what, six and a half cap looks like a great, class A or class B apartment building there I've got an extra five grand I want to invest in that. Click and it transacts, and all of a sudden the seller of it has the, the fiat, the money, and the buyer has the asset themselves, and it all happens within a couple of seconds. You don't need to say, you go hire your attorney. I'll hire my attorney, let's. Try to come up with this price and drop a legal offer, paperwork and we'll review it if, that's why this has been an illiquid thing before Yeah. Is legally you could do it, since the jobs act and things like that. But there hasn't been the technology that Web3 infrastructure, as well as the transparency that's involved with blockchain, where you get to see every transaction, who owns what type of leverage is actually on it. Does it have insurance claims? Does it burn down before? So it really, I believe will be a huge fraud reduction mechanism, which I think is great for the industry.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. It makes a, what is a very inefficient market. Very transparent and very efficient, and it's only gonna get more efficient, as as we progress, right?

Tyler Vinson

Yep, yep. Yeah, exactly. No, no doubt about it. It will, we'll be self compounding. So as we get more and more assets on chain, more and more investors can invest as more investors in liquidity is brought to the marketplace. More and more folks want to get on, and like I said, the future is absolutely digital. In fact, the present is absolutely digital and it's time that real estate takes advantage of the digital era.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, it's about time. It's interesting. I have a software company that we're in the process of launching, and it's particularly focused on back office and front office for real estate investors. And the ones who get it right, but the ones who don't are you're talking, I'm talking Aramaic. To somebody who speaks English, it's just it's, but, it's nice to see it's exciting to see technology making this a more accessible to more people, which is a great thing, right? And b. Making this, far more, like we were saying before, far more efficient than it ever has been. Because that is, I think both those things are only going to bring more people into this market, which, is great for property owners. 'cause it that is certainly going to create demand that will create additional opportunities for everyone involved.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah and to your point, give access to those that have never. Really been able to access these before. So yeah, it's a true win-win. And I think that the listeners should just remember we, we went deep just now. We definitely geeked out on some things. Yeah. I

Ed Mathews

told you I was gonna go a little geeky on you, so

Tyler Vinson

Yeah, that's good. I love it. I love it. But the thing to remember is twofold. Number one, at the end of the day, this is still fundamental real estate. You still need a great operator and a great property, and they still need to run that. There's a real world thing going on. So you could take all these digital aspects out of it, the tokenization out of everything, and you still have a great fundamental real estate investment operator. That's what you want and need.

Ed Mathews

This is frosting on a really good cake

Tyler Vinson

E. Exactly. Exactly. And then when you put all those digital components on there. It's just gonna enhance that. It's analogy, another analogy I give is a cell phone. We could get in and start trying to tell people and not very successfully how this works. Like when we get into blockchain and get into all the, it's it shoots this signal to space and then there it hits a satellite and something comes at you like, it's whoa. Or you say, I just wanna know

Ed Mathews

if I can call my partner. That's

Tyler Vinson

all I got. You got it. Click a couple buttons and you can go face to face with your grandma across the country. And that's how we want to make this use of the platform and the marketplaces as well. If you can do online banking, if you can get on a Coinbase account, if you can get on a Charles Schwab account, then you can get on this and be able to work with it just the same.

Ed Mathews

It's, you don't need a technology background to be able to do this. The bottom line, from what I'm taking from our conversation, and again, I'm a neophyte, so correct me if I'm wrong but the, the bottom line is it is making it so that a, as a non-accredited person, I can get into. I can get into deals that I could not get into a year or two ago. Or several years ago. And also, if I need to get out it's not, it's not the stock exchange, but it's way more liquid than it has been over time. And so it allows flexibility for the general partners as well as any limited partners. To be able to get in and out of these what have been traditionally very long-term investments.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah, no, you've got it. It's it's a pathway to potential liquidity that hasn't existed before. And yes, we're still operating under these regulatory. Pieces like Rule 1 44 for that non-accredited investor. Yeah, of course to participate. But it now has a platform in a vehicle with that technology infrastructure that, that allows it to happen where it hasn't before

Ed Mathews

and it protects those people. 'cause it forces transparency as well.

Tyler Vinson

Forces transparency. And one recommendation I'd make to everybody out there is if you're gonna be buying into real estate tokens and digital securities. These digital assets use a SEC registered platform. Yes. Use a broker dealer. It's a night and day difference on what those, the scrutiny that those investments have to go through.

Ed Mathews

Yep.

Tyler Vinson

And the compliance that those platforms are required to adhere by versus the ones that are unregulated, that are in a frontier where they. Or maybe be pushing the line of skipping the regulation piece, their platform's not SEC registered. And so I would just very much caution folks against that because that get gets you into choppy waters at a minimum.

Ed Mathews

Absolutely. Yeah. There's something to be said for having all those letters at the bottom of a piece of paper because they've had to go through. Ex extensive scrutiny to be able to do what they're doing and to be able to earn the certifications that they have and the memberships that they have. So it's do your due diligence, I think is what Tyler's, what Tyler

Tyler Vinson

said.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, do your homework. But that's right. There are people out there like Ari tokens who can educate you and also bring you along and give you opportunities that. Like I was saying earlier, you wouldn't have had access to a decade ago. Right. Cool. All right, let's get into the lightning round. And I've been bending your ear for about 35 minutes now, so we're going a little long, but that's okay. Okay. So the you okay on time?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah, I'm good.

Ed Mathews

The the first thing I'm always interested in leaders like yourself you the you've done very well, right? And so the bills are paid, the mortgage is handled, the kids' college is all set, all of that, right? And, but nevertheless, you get outta bed on Monday morning and you charge in head first into the office to go do what you do. To me, that's purpose, right? So I'm curious about. What that drive is, what that purpose is for you. What gets you outta bed on Monday?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah, no, you've got it. Been in investment real estate a long time, and it certainly wasn't broken, so there was nothing to fix there.

Ed Mathews

Right.

Tyler Vinson

But yeah, what changed for me is twofold. Number one, I learned about and believe very much in the digital economy, that's our future. And also had personal cases to solve where it's okay, I have millions of dollars of equity in my real estate. Yet, I can't really get to it unless I sell this entire asset. Or I go to the bank and we're doing a big cash out refi or something like that. And that just seemed wrong. And then the other side of it. Just a real quick story. I know lightning round, but I think this builds good context is I got done coaching a soccer game a couple years ago of my daughters and I had a good friend from high school come up and, big hugs. We hadn't seen each other for a while. She says, Tyler, it's been so cool to watch your success and real estate and what you've been doing and me and my husband, we've been saving up and we would love to invest with you. And we just looked at each other and she said, we don't have enough money, do we? And it was true. I only dealt with accredited investors at that point. The lowest investment minimum I had was 50,000. And I know they didn't qualify for that. And that at the end of the day became my mission. And those two things solve each other, right? Because if she could invest and other people that wanted to could invest, right? That could make my equity that was on paper more liquid. But how do you do that? So I became obsessed with solving this problem, this challenge. My personal mission has been to help people build wealth through real estate and achieve freedom through cash flow. And to do that, I believe they need access to these investments and they, need to learn about what real estate can do for them. And so I think it's just a perfect match.

Ed Mathews

Excellent. So I'm always interested in. We've all had help along the way, right? It's some generous people who were a few, proverbial chapters in the book we're all reading. They were a few chapters ahead of us and they gave us some insights to help us leap forward. And you, the mentors in your life, I'm curious, what is the best advice you ever got and who gave it to you?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. You know what? I'm going to take one that is cumulative of a few pieces of different advice that I've got from several mentors. 'cause I agree with what you're saying and it's simply, if you want things to be better, you need to be better. And that is a Jim Rohn quote.

Ed Mathews

Yep.

Tyler Vinson

But that's the message I've received in a pattern format from folks because. So often we're out there running around in the external world trying to find the next best tactic and strategy and all of these things. But the reality of it is your ultimate success is from the inside. It's your mindset, it's your perspective, it's your commitment, and it's what happens. Is this quote goes with it, that what pursue can allude you, but what you desire is attracted to you by who you become. So this is a journey about becoming the best version of yourself.

Ed Mathews

Yeah.

Tyler Vinson

And I call it be who you are, and that is going to cause the right things to come into your life versus you exhausting yourself trying to chase 'em all down.

Ed Mathews

Said. Said. So the I fundamentally believe that the, that we learn people, human beings, right? In general, professionally, I think we learn way more from our mistakes than we do from our successes. Although the successes are fun and the mistakes aren't, but I'm curious about a dis, as you look back on, on all that you've accomplished, what's a decision that you look back and go, man, I would love to have that decision back. And what'd you do about it?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. There's kind of two ways to look at this, because you just made the point that some of those. Decisions that you would do differently were completely necessary to build your perspective. So I wouldn't say that I would want it back, but let's talk about that. When I first got into the business in the early two thousands. I just started to get on a roll, bought my first properties in 2002. And so by 2005, 2006, I was getting really aggressive but I was still new and so I was, drinking the Kool-Aid that some particular, companies or gurus were selling out there. And what that ended up being was massive leverage. It was the type of market where you could buy a property. Wait like 60 days and then go get a HELOC against it, right? And go put that down as another property. And so people were teaching that and we were doing those things. So what that all equaled was over leverage. And the, what happens with over leverage is when things go the other way. You're in trouble. And that's what happened to me. In the great financial crisis. I was doing lease options. So the tenants were paying more than market rent for rent credits and in the hopes that they would fix it up and do some of those things. And one day, literally I had five houses. Go bank it in December 2008.

Ed Mathews

Ouch.

Tyler Vinson

I learned very much about leveraging, in particular, over leverage because leverage is how I've, a big part of how I've made my wealth. There's no question without a doubt about that. But a big difference between leverage and over leverage. And so that played a critical role on how I rebuilt my real estate investment model. How I approached what type of loans I was doing and willing to do. And even in this. Most recent turmoil that the commercial markets have seen. 'cause I own a lot of real estate today. And what you saw with syndicators is they did these bridge loans, these three year loans, these five year loans 'cause commercial real estate. It's not like residential. They're not 30 year loans for the most part. For the most part, when you're dealing with the banks, they're five year loans and so forth. But I had done so much I, I had suffered so much there that two strategies I used that I learned from that major failure 'cause I ended up short selling a couple properties. I was literally crying in my bedroom, not knowing how to pay my mortgage with brand new twins and a 6-year-old. It was a rough moment. There's no doubt about that. I knew that. I nev that mistake. It was cemented, burned into me that I would never over leverage ever again.

Ed Mathews

Right.

Tyler Vinson

And so the way I built my portfolio and dealt with this most recent situation was that. I always had either seller, finance some cash not. I normally use leverage, but there was had no balloons or if I was working with the bank, they always offer you the best rate. At five years, I would pay a little bit more in interest. To get a 10 year term on that. And so I, I never have the pressure of doing that. So that mistake changed my investment philosophy. So if you can learn from that folks employ that into your own thoughts when you're considering your investment strategies,

Ed Mathews

I, I'll tell you, some of the most successful, trustworthy, responsible operators I know would tell me the exact same story you just said. And one of my mentors. He had, he had lost it. He's absolutely brilliant. He's as honest as the day is long, but if you become over leveraged, you're, there's not a lot you can do about it. Yeah. And and now he's bigger than he ever was, but but the the, the idea being that. Learning those lessons is enormous. Yeah. I've been over leveraged and, one of the ways that I solve that in my own world is first off, I got rid of those properties as quick as I possibly could. And but the other part of it is that, we take on with partners, we don't go over 65% loan to value. And I'm like, you I'm more than happy to pay a point or two to buy down to get the 10 year as opposed to the, to, to the three or five year that were really easy to get about five years ago.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah,

Ed Mathews

exactly. And so it's it's a, it's. It's a process that you have to go through in order to, you, either somebody close to you goes through it or you go through it, but it happens. And thank you for your vulnerability and your transparency because I think a lot of people can learn from that. There was a study from Moody's. Couple years ago, probably 24, January of 24, that was basically saying that the 23 or so percent of the folks that had bridge debt in multifamily couldn't, when it repriced they couldn't refi a quarter of the market. Right. It's not a unique problem. It's just, that is it's just part of, it's part of the process.

Tyler Vinson

I'm always, yeah. People ask me, what's the number one risk in real estate? And I always say it's the underlying financing. 'cause if you are doing short-term financing for long-term deals, you are setting up obstacles and front of you. So do it carefully.

Ed Mathews

You are on thin ice. And you may not hear it cracking until you're already wet. Is I'm also curious about how leaders like yourself take in information, the proverbial what's the book on your nightstand, whether that's electronic or physical, but, so I'm curious about how you take in information and also who are you paying attention to these as authors, creators, and whatnot?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. I, my entire background is real statement. So the book on my nightstand this moment is the Power of the Subconscious Mind. It Joseph, so Dr. Joseph something, I can't remember his exact name, but that's what I is on my nightstand right now. But I typically am reading about three books at a time and. All I do is consume information. When people ask me how I've gotten to where I've gotten it's education. Whether that's going to events, which I do every single year, or just devouring information. So I'm pretty, pretty regimented about this in my mornings. I have a particular routine and part of that routine is studying something. Recently it's been a lot of securities. I've had to go get all my security license and things like that, and studying capital markets and market makers and all that stuff we talked about. But this also has applied to real estate and real estate investment. So I read hard copy books. I watch YouTube videos and I have an audible account where I take in audio books. For example, when I drive, I only allow myself to listen to music on Fridays every other day. Anytime I'm in the car, it's either an audio book or a video of a particular area that I'm trying to study. Always doing that. I, my, my biggest thing, I try to really force out any junk videos. 'cause I get caught up in that sometimes as well. Plenty of rabbit

Ed Mathews

holes. That's,

Tyler Vinson

that's yeah, that's what,

Ed Mathews

that's what Saturday's for.

Tyler Vinson

Yeah, you're right. That's what I said. Only on weekends can I indulge in some of that, so you gotta be regimented. But yeah. Hard copy books. YouTube videos and audio books, and it's really every day. I don't think there's a day that goes by that I don't do that. And then getting around the right people at educational events. I, one thing I would also add that I did in my early days, and actually now have done as well, is I have. Thousands of hours with attorneys and CPAs. And you'd be amazed on how many different legal opinions or tax opinions you can get on the same exact subject, but it's worth paying that hourly wage. A good one that, make sure you research and get a recommendation, but it's worth. Taking, preparing for an hour or two for that meeting and just taking in some of the real world scenarios and some of the questions and sitting with these CPAs and attorneys and getting it firsthand and being able to do all of that. And another way more recently now is. AI has become a pretty phenomenal tool. It's not just plug and play. You have to know what you're prompting and know the sources. And I think in the early days it was a lot more sketchy, but now you can actually, it'll lead you down some pretty good path, but you need all that context that we described with the audio books and the hard copy and the experts before you can actually, I think, be really useful with some of the AI stuff.

Ed Mathews

Absolutely. Yeah. It's amazing what you can learn from an attorney or an accountant in, over a lunch that you're buying, right? And maybe even paying the rate because. Yes, they see your deals, but they also see dozens and dozens and dozens and maybe hundreds of other deals in the marketplace that you don't have access to unless you were sitting in front of them. Eating a salad and picking their brain and to be able to give their professional perspective on things is invaluable. And worth your time. And obviously the, the saw sharpening that you do that's really interesting that you only allow yourself to listen to music on Fridays. I would love to tell you I'm that disciplined, but I'm not. There's plenty of days where I probably should be listening to the book that I just can't finish, and instead I'm listening to who won the Yankees Red Sox game last night

Tyler Vinson

yeah. Yeah. One thing I'll add on to the CPA and attorney thing real quick though, is don't take what they say as gospel either. It's an opinion, like we said in Yeah, you, there's been so many times. That I've been told things and gone back to that CPA or that attorney and they were wrong and they learned from. So be careful about that. Trust your instincts. Trust your study. And those meetings are good because it's information. You may, yeah, it's information and then you may cause you to do more research and go back to them. Now guess who's an expert on the subject. You are right on.

Ed Mathews

Yeah. Yeah. Or you go meet with another professional and they're like, who told you that?

Tyler Vinson

Oh yeah, for sure. That happens. Yes, exactly right.

Ed Mathews

So what does success mean to you? How do you define it in your life?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah, probably one of the, more cliche things is being able to live the life that, that you want to live and that what you notice is that's different. For everybody, right? I think for me that it's being able to make sure I hit all my kids, sports events that I can, be there as a dad and I'm not perfect, but, try to get above the 80% mark. On being able to do that. Yeah. And financial freedom's an unquestionable component to that. Being able to acquire assets that ultimately pay you cash flow is something I believe very much in how you ultimately, get there is up to you. That's what success is to me is that inner fulfillment, right? It's not necessarily a number at the end of. Nobody wants to be the rich guy or gal on the hill with all the cars and toys and nobody to share it with. Because when you build wealth, when you buy lake houses, when you do things, the fulfillment and joy in that is the ability to share it with others and to, have the time to, to do that. My opinion is what success is.

Ed Mathews

Couldn't agree more. All right, my friend. So when not talking about real estate or tokenization what do you like to do for fun? You mentioned a lake house, so I think that may be part of it, but

Tyler Vinson

Yeah. Yeah. Got a lake house in north Idaho on Lake Ponder near Sandpoint, so really enjoy that time. But I'm an outdoors person, so I run Spartan races, which are outdoor obstacle course races, and that. Has me in the mountains a lot. So I would say that's one of my primary hobbies is doing that. And I've got four kids in total a lot of their sporting events and being a dad is a big part of it. And I guess more recently, my wife's buying goats and all sorts of animals at our property. I enjoy some of that. Out just being outdoors in the peaceful stuff. But trail running and spartan racing and stuff is I think where I go get into my mental zone that's away from real estate and business and those things.

Ed Mathews

Yeah. All right. So if people wanna learn more about you or get to know you and, or obviously re tokens, what's the best way to do that?

Tyler Vinson

Yeah I'm on LinkedIn and so is re token. So it's just if you search Tyler Vincent re tokens that will come up or search re tokens for the page. We do a lot of thought leadership and educational information between those two channels. People are interested in learning more about real estate tokenization. I highly recommend going to. Re tokens.com and we have a free download that's a quick start guide to real estate tokenization there. I think people will find that very helpful. Yeah. And then we make a lot of great YouTube videos and that's just at re tokens. And so you can really go get a lot of good information about real estate investment and tokenization and these. Markets that we're talking about, and that will really give you a good look into what the future of investment real estate looks like.

Ed Mathews

Fantastic. Thank you for that. And we will put that in the show notes as well, so it's easy to get to you. So Tyler Vincent, thank you so much for joining us today. I appreciate you letting us go a little long, but I'm fascinated by your business and congratulations on all your success.

Tyler Vinson

Appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you, ed. It's been great talking with you. We'll have to do it again sometime.

Ed Mathews

Absolutely.

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Ed Mathews

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