44. FROM Season 2 recap w/ Bob Mann : Characters, Plots, Theories, and More!

FROM Season 2 recap w/ Bob Mann : Characters, Plots, Theories, and More!  Buckle up, because our beloved guest Bob Mann is here to unravel the intricate layers of season 2 with Alex & Lizzie! Journey with us as we relive the joy of witnessing old characters return, the thrill of seeing new faces, and the bittersweet farewell to characters whose arcs ended too soon. We totter between excitement and contemplation, dissecting the plot in grand detail, right from Boyd's son's bizarre encounter with Read Price to the unique storytelling approach that transitions seamlessly from the ordinary to the extraordinary.

In the midst of our lively chatter, we break down our favorite theories and discuss the complexity of the show's narrative. What's your take on the Poison Tee from Mrs. Lil, or the Mole Theory? We explore these with gusto, even drawing parallels with the iconic reveal of Snape in the Harry Potter series. We delve into the narrative value of the mole theory, its potential impact on the future trajectory of the show, and speculate about the mysterious world our characters are navigating.

Brimming with appreciation for Bob's infectious positivity, we finally round off our discussion with a look at the show's merchandise for fans and our anticipation for future interviews. From the riveting intricacies of the plot to the distinct character arcs, we dissect every aspect of the Fromcast podcast. If you're as intrigued by Bob's insights as we are, this conversation is a must-listen. As we navigate the fantastic world of this TV show, prepare to see your favorite characters in a whole new light! Don't miss out on this compelling discussion.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hi there, my name is Hannah Cheromey. This is the What is Fromcast podcast on the podcastica network.

Speaker 3: 0:34

Welcome to the show. My name is Alex and we have our special guest. that needs no introduction, but we're going to introduce him anyways. You know him as Frank. We all know him as Bob Bob man. Thank you so much for joining us. What a time.

Speaker 1: 0:49

What a time to be alive. I'm telling you who season two.

Speaker 3: 0:53

I'm telling you, I know we had to do a lot to pull you away from Canada Day.

Speaker 1: 0:59

Oh boy.

Speaker 4: 0:59

Is that what today is?

Speaker 1: 1:01

That was yesterday. It was yesterday, but we celebrate well into October. Okay, here in Canada, we just don't, we don't stop.

Speaker 3: 1:12

It's just, every day is Canada Day.

Speaker 1: 1:14

We need a month and a half to recover.

Speaker 3: 1:17

Well. I have a very good friend that lives in Quebec and I keep telling her you guys are going to take us over with Zamboni technology, It's all about the Zamboni technology.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Yeah, as we slowly and methodically make our way across the border in our Zambonis.

Speaker 3: 1:36

Absolutely, and for those of you that are watching the show, thank you so much, and the fans, and if you'd like to subscribe to our channel, that would be even better. Right down there or there, i don't know, whatever it is, and it is Sunday, so that means it is from day and we are talking from. The show has stopped or isn't hiatus for a couple of months or so, as we like to, as the kids like to say, and but we're still going, we're still going. Just a couple of little things. If you haven't checked out our merch shop, you can get these nice from Lee shirts. I know Bob is in for at least 10 for all of his family, easily and easily, and you can look at the show notes or check out that link right there. And so, bob, what is your first thoughts of this season?

Speaker 1: 2:32

My first thoughts I was well, i mean, i guess it depends on what perspective I'm coming at it from, because, as an actor who was on the show and who knows, you know, knows a number of people still involved and gets to see people, it was a thrill to see some people come back after. You know it was. It was really cool to see Lisa Ryder, you know pop up.

Speaker 1: 3:00

Yeah, she's great Yeah you know, like you kind of hope you get to see her again. And then the buddy, reid Price, who's Tom the bartender, getting to see him, unceremoniously dispatched but then get to pop up again. You know the shining style, yeah, that was. That was pretty cool. And seeing and also getting to see some of the fans kind of react to that, that was fun, of course. And then Sean Majumdar getting to see him, and that was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 3:28

And the other thing I really loved, i will say and this isn't has nothing to do with the plot or anything like that but I really loved seeing how much extra meat and how much extra time people got. I loved seeing Scott McCord. I think is just a is a really gifted performer and getting to see him with extra stuff to chew on was a lot of fun. I thought he had some cool, cool moments and some weighty bits. I thought Ricky, ricky, he had some cool little cool little things to do and some some interesting scenes. And and here I just thought people had some interesting acting that they had to. They had to do a little bit more weighty. And and you know my pal Nathan Simmons, who I've known for forever, who's just a lovely and gifted actor who here in Halifax he you know getting to see the work that he did as Elgin, i thought was really really neat to. I wish that. I wish that Phoebe Rex had been able to stick around a little bit longer. She played Sarah who got the spike in the head.

Speaker 3: 4:29

I'm going to tell you right now I think they, i think they missed the mark with her. I really think they missed the mark because she and we had her on the show. I don't know if you're aware of that.

Speaker 1: 4:40

I mean that's right.

Speaker 3: 4:41

She had an. You know, read the Facebook groups. For someone that was in one episode She was more memorable than people that were there for for multiple episodes. I mean, she had such a good impact and it would have been great to see someone like her and Julie kind of be friends and see where that could have taken off or something else with the plotline. I think that they missed the mark on that, but I love what they did. It's just that it's just kind of a shame.

Speaker 1: 5:10

Yeah, i mean I get it from a storytelling perspective. I mean the story is not charity, right, like a story is not something that you do for the purpose of giving characters to people or for just having a bunch of characters is a fun to look at, i mean people have. There has to be a purpose to everything. And if anything, i would say that the show probably affords a little bit more roadway and mileage to a number of characters who might show up and then be gone. You know a la walking dead, loss, stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 5:40

Like you, you have opportunities for people to just kind of fly in and then go, and I appreciate that as a performer because it means a show like this is going to have something for. You know, i mean even I, even me I feel very fortunate and lucky to have been able to be one of the first ones kind of out to gate, out of the gate, to be on there and have a little arc, and you know it comes to an end and you know you can lament that, but the fact is you know there's, there's. There's only so much for everybody, and to get something is to get to the level in in and of itself and get to do it and get to say that you were, you were part of it. So I don't, you know, i don't.

Speaker 1: 6:13

I don't lament that they would have had something. They only had meaningful opportunities and sort of plot service for each new character that came along, and they only had a room for a few. There's all. It's already a pretty stacked, oh yeah, yeah, it's already a pretty stacked roster, but but I think they've done. I think they've done great by everybody that they've brought in. I, you know, i thought there was some neat stuff, neat stuff that went down, yeah.

Speaker 4: 6:37

Yeah, absolutely Cool. So what are we drinking tonight, guys?

Speaker 3: 6:43

Name it I got everything from Wawa.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Yeah, I got all the everything that I need.

Speaker 3: 6:50

We weren't we? I didn't do a good job of marketing cocktails with with Bob man, but I know I showed up with my cocktail.

Speaker 1: 6:59

Is that? is that what you do on Sundays? you get yourself a nice drink and you watch the. You watch the show.

Speaker 4: 7:04

Well, no, i seldom drink, but I wanted to in honor of this. Yeah, i've been looking at the glass all day It's Sangria.

Speaker 1: 7:17

Oh you're and.

Speaker 3: 7:19

Bob, I leave some of our. Some of our listeners probably think that we do drink when we do this podcast. So it probably be better that we did drink, because I think you know it would validate some of the the talk, exactly, exactly. You know I do want to dive in a little bit. Let's just talk about, like, the first episode, the first couple of episodes. Yeah, and and Lizzie, please jump in whenever you're want to jump in.

Speaker 4: 7:46

Oh, I don't want to cut you off and I'll get a nasty email.

Speaker 3: 7:49

Well, that's fine, you can go right ahead. That, that's that said. You know, what I love about this show is they really started where they left off, like literally the moment they left off, they started, and it looks like this season was a couple of weeks, if it was that much, you know.

Speaker 4: 8:12

I think it was like a week. I don't even think it was longer than a week.

Speaker 3: 8:16

Yeah, it was really really strange on how quickly it was. You know, and so you're in. You were in this world for a little bit And what I find really frustrating as a viewer is you're in this world. Nothing is normal. Boyd has a conversation with his, with his son, and he's like I went through a tree and I came out there And and Ellis is like wait, let me get this straight. Now this is coming from the same person that has to lock his, his door up. His monsters come out with with a stone talisman, like how does that not like jive? I don't know, maybe I'm just wrong.

Speaker 1: 9:02

Um, it's a no, it's an interesting thing And I have given that a fair bit of thought. So one of the am I got to say, one of the neat experiences that I had with season two was my, my youngest son, who's just like graduating high school this year. He just graduated last year. He's all caught up. He watched all of it from the beginning and then we watched a little bit of it together. It was kind of fun getting to see. and then he, i had a, i had a sort of little side note.

Speaker 1: 9:31

We filmed the second season of King and Pawn which had a bunch of stuff to it and you know read price who plays Tom, he was the lead and I brought my son with me to one of the shooting days just to just to kind of hang out. and he got to meet read. and it was interesting because I've known read for, you know, a long time and we've done a number of projects together. but my son had never met him So he was kind of star struck Like he'd watched, he'd watched a bunch of. it was his first time kind of meeting someone, yeah, he'd only whose face he'd only known from television. it was kind of a neat, a neat experience.

Speaker 1: 10:05

but he and I shared an interesting thought about on that particular note, alex, and it was that you know I was sort of relating it to a show like lost, where it takes kind of a long time for the characters in the world to realize that or even into, or even accept that there are things going on that are out of this world. Yeah And so, and so naturally, you know, in that vein, in that context, when things are presented to them that appear to be out of this world, they they have a disbelief or they deflect from it or they have other explanations. some some are pretty quick to say, oh, there's weird stuff happening, and then other people say No, no, no, no, no, you're mistaken, it's just this and this and that, whereas in this show, i do think one of the challenges that the creators have sort of set up for themselves is that nobody, literally no person, should have any level of disbelief for any amount of crazy stuff that happens. I mean, don't you think like it? just sort of like it, right, like it would? yeah. so when it gets presented, you know that, hey, there's a tree and if you fall into it you come out in maybe a different year or a different place. literally to a person, every single person should go yep, that checks out. I mean, i mean, what like? how much weirder can it get than it already is?

Speaker 3: 11:29

And first off a couple of things before I just want to a little side note folks, please put in the chat what you're drinking, because you know we don't like to drink alone and we certainly don't want Liz to drink alone. And there's all 12 of you, or 15 of you, whoever how many decide to show up. And when we do start talking far away trees and stuff like that, you need to be a little bit more loose with your.

Speaker 4: 11:52

Well, you need to buy into it a little bit more.

Speaker 1: 11:55

Yeah, that's right, we're going to get into some lofty philosophical you know text here and go to some weird places. Yeah, yeah, you know, i agree, i agree with you. I think it is, and I don't, i mean I it's, i don't. I don't see things like that and think to myself, oh boy, have they ever messed up? I don't think that to myself.

Speaker 1: 12:14

What I think is oh boy, does that ever illustrate how challenging it is to, on the one hand, have really bizarre things happening in a world that's already bizarre and have the characters behave in human ways that you know, like, like, really it does.

Speaker 1: 12:33

It does kind of kind of like a character into some uncharted territory by having them accept through the gate that anything weird that happens can be believed, because then the you know, because that that gets in the way of things like conflict and things like you know, disbelief. I know I saw some of the memes and I think it's not, you know, in those early episodes where Boyd and Ian Bailey's character, jim, jim, where Jim is saying I think, i think I know what's going on here, i think I know what's happening, and boys like I don't have time for this, yeah, this shenanigans and goings on, jim, i've got, you know, i've got things to tend to, like goats to find or whatever, and it was like that was one of those moments where you're like, okay, you can't have, you can't have everybody on the same page all the time, but I'm what you're gonna, yeah, i'm what basis, you're gonna have them not on the same page. That challenge in this show.

Speaker 3: 13:28

I swear, if there was a show that ever needed a communication intervention, it was this show with all the different people.

Speaker 1: 13:35

It's tough, it's tough.

Speaker 4: 13:36

It's hard, Oh my God.

Speaker 1: 13:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I found myself on more than a few I mean, i've done some writing I found myself on more than a few occasions going boy, some tough, tough knots done, rattle here Like it's. This would be, this would be tough to keep all these balls in play. And given that I thought, i thought that they, i thought they did a good job on a lot of, on a lot of fronts like it, you know, given, given how much juggling there is to do, i thought, you know it's pretty well entertained all the way through. I didn't, i didn't have a lot of moments where, you know, i was like whatever, i really didn't, i was, i was right there with it all the way through. It's just an enjoyable, enjoyable mystery.

Speaker 4: 14:13

Well, i drink the Kool-Aid, I buy it all Sure.

Speaker 1: 14:17

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 14:19

I could understand Ellis being like, wait a minute, you were in a tree and then you were here Because, yeah, this place, you know, plays with the bounds of what we find normal. You know what we've found, you know finding our everyday life like it does that Thanks for watching. It just seems like they're discovering things over, not over and over, like they're discovering new things all the time. You know, like God, i can't even think, like just even the Phoebe Rex character I think her name was Kelly being impaled to a tree. They hadn't seen that yet.

Speaker 3: 15:03

Okay, first off, that was fucked up.

Speaker 1: 15:06

Oh, it's crazy, right, But that was just.

Speaker 3: 15:08

That was so messed up compared to what we've seen before.

Speaker 4: 15:12

Well, it was just. You know it. What I really liked about the beginning of the season was being able to see it again through new people's eyes.

Speaker 4: 15:25

And whereas the Matthews family arrive, they've got, you know, the accident of the RV to contend with and being stuck in the RV and you know, like stuck at night and not understanding why they couldn't pull Ethan out, and you know that they were playing with the sundown and stuff like that. And then Julie and Tabitha being up at Colony House, it just seemed like it went a lot easier when they showed up, but then, when they were dealing with an entire busload of people that they had to contend with, i mean it's a little bit easier, i think, to convince four people versus 25 people that are coming in 25 different directions, like even the old couple that thought that they would be safe on the bus, you know, just being there but watching the monsters come up to the couple and shake their hands, and the couple, you know, was like, okay, you know, this is nice, the first nice people that we've met that aren't crazy. And then you know, we know that they get attacked right away. And we, you know, we watch the people in the diner as they're listening to this And it's just, it's an interesting, it was interesting to watch that again And just to you know, look at it through our own eyes thinking all right, so what different?

Speaker 4: 17:04

what thing is gonna happen this time around? How are these people going to behave? And then you've got Randall, who is not buying one ounce of this, regardless of what he's hearing going on outside, regardless of what he sees the next morning when they're out there trying to rescue Jim. I mean, there's poor Tom ripped to shreds, and it was just. I think it was a really strong opening for the show.

Speaker 3: 17:35

Well, i love the fact how that first episode I mean it wasn't rocket science Every time I tried to dig the house kept collapsing on. It was like it was pulling. And you know, lizzie, and I kind of know what we're doing and we're speaking with Bob Mann here, who was on the show for a season our first three episodes, i think And you know, i know you're a writer as well as an actor, but was there anything that surprised you in the season that you were like, wow, that was really good or that was? you know again, i'm just curious, from your perspective as someone that's in the business, regardless that you were on the show, but, like as someone that's in the business, was there a little plot twist, whether it was the music box or the worms or whatever? Was there anything in your eyes that you thought that, oh yeah, i mean I think it was a?

Speaker 1: 18:28

little bit of a surprise, but I mean all of that really like, when you think about the, i mean it's a show that doesn't spend. It's a show that doesn't spend very much time laboring in what I guess would be the ordinary world of the show, right? So there's a version of this show where the ordinary world is where the characters are before they come into it And the inciting incident so the inciting incident for the, for the family, is coming into the town. It is so we experienced their story through there. But for a whole bunch of the other characters, the ordinary world is already being in the town. Right, and so the inciting incident have to be different kinds of things. Right, it's the first death in 96 days or it's whatever. Right.

Speaker 1: 19:24

But then as you go, you need more things to be happening that bring out conflicts and bring out stuff that happens And really like, right from the get-go, you have this business of Sarah having something communicating with her, but as it turns out, the stakes just get raised, higher and higher and higher as you go, as things like interdimensional travel or potentially traveling through time. I don't even know we haven't even really had confirmed for us yet if that's even a thing. We're not 100% sure. But then you have this business of the worms and the cicadas and the box, like pieces keep getting added that make the, that weave the thing into something increasingly more complex, to the point where you're not even really sure what the threat is. You're not sure if the threat is psychological. Is it like the monsters? the monsters, frankly, almost seem to be somewhat quaint at this point. The monsters, at this point the monster. If all they had to deal with was the monsters, it wouldn't even really be that big of a deal. They've already gone 96 days in a stretch.

Speaker 1: 20:35

You know, they've had a bad run of luck in the last couple of weeks or whatever the time span of the show, and honestly it's funny when you say maybe a week or two of seconds. I don't think this first season covered that much time. I don't think we've actually. I don't think we've been in this world very long. So if you think about it, the monsters are just sort of the thin edge of the wedge, so to speak.

Speaker 1: 20:57

There's a whole bunch of other things going on that are really just, i would almost say there are a whole bunch of things that have just been introduced and we haven't even really gotten into the meat of it yet. And I know that that's to the frustration of some of the fans and I can certainly appreciate that. But if each season was a section of a novel, you know we'd be, i think we'd probably be maybe a third of the way in, and hopefully that means we're gonna get we're gonna get a lot more play. At this point With TV that's tough, cause you don't know how, you don't know how much, you don't know how much roadway necessarily you have in front of you.

Speaker 4: 21:35

So it's tough At any point. Yeah, i mean, after watching the finale and thinking about it for the last week, i'm starting to think that it's a game like the whole music box piece with the worms and everyone seeing the music box not everybody, but a lot of people seeing the music box that weren't there to get the worms and then Boyd finally defeating the music box and the Abby character like she was Abby when she first showed up to him, when he's about to smash that music box, but if you listened carefully, her voice changed and her vernacular changed while she was talking to him. The more he seemed intent on breaking that box, the more she was intent on getting him not to. And when he broke the box, the game was over. They won that game, right.

Speaker 4: 22:38

And then, yeah, then there's Tabitha who somehow is getting this message that she needs to save the children, and maybe she was on an express route or something that took her to the tower so that she could get pushed out and back into reality. But we don't know that she's in reality for sure. We don't know if she's just in another escape room. At this point We don't know, but I was just. I mean, i try not to get too heavy into the theories, because they're so zigzaggy It's hard to stay committed. You can't seem to like I'm a very linear person. I think it's because of teaching math, i'm not sure, but I'm a very linear person, and when something starts to go off in different tangents and I'm not seeing a pattern to it, i don't know how to process that.

Speaker 3: 23:42

So that's why Well, it goes back to what Jade said. If you it feels like you're in the middle of a book and you don't know where they're starting, you need the two pieces to kind of connect. Well, that puzzle?

Speaker 4: 23:50

yeah, and I don't. that's why I just don't commit to any of these theories.

Speaker 1: 23:58

It might not be. I mean, i do pop in and I take a look at what some of the fans say and some of the theories and look, the theorizing is fun.

Speaker 3: 24:09

And we're gonna show some of it, because some of the people in the chat are actually gonna. We're gonna start talking about it too, so-.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Sure, yeah, And the theories are fun. I mean one thing I do, and I would not want to dissuade anyone from theorizing Oh, no, that's pop.

Speaker 1: 24:22

If theorizing is your bag, go for it. Have a good time with it. Storytelling is not necessarily look, a story is not the same thing as an escape room. Right, and an escape room can tell a story, and certainly anyone who's played RPG, video games or these sort of things. there can be story elements and backgrounds to characters and things like that built into it. But a story is not necessarily a puzzle to be solved. A mystery isn't even necessarily a puzzle to be solved where you're looking for clues.

Speaker 1: 25:00

I mean, it is interesting to me that there is that there's so many comparisons drawn between this show and Lost. I've watched Lost probably five or six times now, and that's not I'm not a rewatcher, but it's because my kids have gotten into it and I've watched it kind of in tandem with them. every time a new kid comes along and watches it. So it's a fun. it's been a fun experience. But one thing that has become very, very clear to me watching Lost a number of times is that if you watched Lost as a puzzle to be solved, it was unsolvable.

Speaker 4: 25:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:42

It was unsolvable.

Speaker 1: 25:43

There were no like there were. If you sat down and you mapped out all of the clues that were given to you, there is a reveal at the end, and in pieces near the end, that tells you what things meant, but they weren't necessarily things that you would have been able to come up with a solution to Like. In a way, the story was actively trying to come up with something more interesting than the theories that a viewer might have come up with based on which way they chose to be misdirected. That's the magic of a really good story is not to present you a room that you can escape from, but to present you with a room you can't escape from and then have that moment where they say, here's how you could have got out and you go, wow, you know, just be amazed by it. I don't want to solve this show. I want to be amazed by whatever they come up with and they hope they do. I don't want to come up with a better theory than what I'm served up with in the end To your point.

Speaker 3: 26:43

you know, somebody was saying on one of the Facebook groups oh, this is a bad season all this, and I'm like what do you want them to do? Go home, and the show is over.

Speaker 4: 26:53

I'm like, are you watching the same thing? I am.

Speaker 3: 26:56

But, that said, we do have a couple of theories that I want to throw at you. Okay, yeah, yeah, no, i'm there for the theories.

Speaker 1: 27:03

I think those are fun and I think they are cool yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:05

And there really is only one theory. I'm sorry, I know there's a lot of red herrings, but this is the only one. I'm accepting The Poison Tee from Mrs Lil. It's the best theory of all.

Speaker 1: 27:19

That they're all on a mushroom trip. I have actually solved that.

Speaker 4: 27:23

I just have to make the video for it.

Speaker 1: 27:26

No but.

Speaker 4: 27:26

I've solved that It's not.

Speaker 1: 27:27

Oh yeah, right, solution videos yeah.

Speaker 4: 27:30

Yeah, yeah, okay, do you do those Okay.

Speaker 3: 27:32

So, lizzie, why don't you do the first one?

Speaker 4: 27:35

All right, let's see I've got to get close so I can actually read. I don't know why I can't see today. As far as theories, this is from Emily C. Oh yeah. As far as theories, there were two. One, this is all an experiment where everyone is studied to see how far they can be pushed. And two, there are moles to make, fromville to make and from there are moles to make and fromville to keep this experiment on track.

Speaker 3: 28:43

I still like the Cromenockel, but what do you think about the whole mole theory guys?

Speaker 1: 28:50

I. To me it feels like so. To me it feels like the mole theory comes from viewers being far too exposed, maybe, to stories where there are moles. Let's put it this way If, instead of a show, we were watching a baseball game and it was two teams playing against each other and someone in the crowd stood up and said I think there's a mole on one of the other teams playing for the opposite team and they're actively trying to make their team lose, That's why this happened and that happened. And this happened and that happened, You'd think that that person was out to lunch, right, Because we have no experience of moles in professional sports or games. Like there'd be no context whatsoever for that as a theory of why the New York Yankees are beating the Boston Red Sox.

Speaker 4: 29:59

Don't even ever say that. Don't ever say that.

Speaker 3: 30:02

That was the greatest example ever And, bob, you are more than welcome to come back anytime.

Speaker 4: 30:08

We can talk about the lunch Yankee suck.

Speaker 1: 30:13

But you see what I'm saying, right, like you wouldn't think anything of it. right, like, even though you have conflict, you have two sides against each other. you have this sort of thing. So like, personally and maybe this is my bias but I've seen absolutely nothing up to this point to suggest to me, intuitively or otherwise, if I were to look more closely, that there is anyone here for whom the stakes of life or death are not real. It really does seem like the stakes of life or death are truly real for everyone And I can't and it's not just an evidence thing, it's also from a storytelling thing Like, what is the narrative import of having any of these characters be playing for the bad guys? Like, if you name me a single character and try to tell me that they're a mole and you will immediately destroy that character's narrative. it will not make any sense.

Speaker 4: 31:08

The only thing I was going to say was that I really bent. I don't think so.

Speaker 1: 31:11

I think, donna, and I think It's reaching Liz. No, it's not. I've heard the Donna. I've heard the Donna theory. I've heard the Donna's a mole theory. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. That character is so earnest, It's played, she plays it so straightforward.

Speaker 4: 31:24

But she totally is. She totally is. I feel like she is being compromised in some way. I don't think that she willingly showed up playing for the company. I don't think that that's the case at all, and part of the reason why I think that Donna is is because of the way she responded to Jim when he said someone hurt us. You heard it someone hurt us. And the way she responded to him was as if she knew something more than what we think that she knows. The one thing I will say I'm sorry. That's the reason why That's my reason why.

Speaker 1: 32:13

So now the odds of that are so incredibly low, and I'll tell you why, and it's a very boring and practical reason, right.

Speaker 4: 32:22

Is this the perney Bob speaking?

Speaker 1: 32:24

What's that? No, i mean yeah, no, right, no, it's like it has more to do with what, like. So if that were true, then it means that Liz Saunders, the actor, has to know and was directed to deliver that line, which is probably one of many takes. Deliver that line that way, with the right amount of nuance that a viewer is gonna pick up on it. You do know that she's not an actual, the character is not an actual person, like. She's an actor who's playing the role and who has read the script up to the end of season two. Who, if Donna is a mole, liz Saunders certainly doesn't know that she's a mole yet, because she would only have read the scripts up to the end of season two.

Speaker 1: 33:07

Now I will say this Which hold on, let me finish Which means somebody has pulled her aside and said the following to her They have said you're a mole and we need you to deliver your lines without anything in the plot or the episodes or the lines to suggest this one way or the other. We need you to deliver those lines with the right amount of nuance so that, when it is turns out that you are a mole, we'll be able to look back and they'll be able to see and go aha. That is like the depth of that sort of exercise is. I'm telling you it's just not, it's just not there.

Speaker 3: 33:48

Wait, let me first say this I do not think there's a mole.

Speaker 1: 33:51

No, I don't think there's a-.

Speaker 3: 33:53

There's two things about Liz Saunders' character that I don't particularly care. She keeps her hands in her pocket, which I know. Maybe that's just what she does in real life, like that's her thing, or that's Donna's thing. But that's Donna's thing. But to rebut what you're gonna say, bob, they did it in one of the greatest reveals ever Harry Potter with Snape.

Speaker 1: 34:18

Oh sure, yeah, yeah, and I'm just saying I'm not saying it's either.

Speaker 3: 34:21

I don't think she's a mole. I think the whole mole theory is just grabbing for straws. I think Randall is, bar none without a doubt, batshit crazy because he's in this world and whatever else. I think Donna knows a lot of things. I think the way they shot it made it as though she was just at the right place at the right time.

Speaker 4: 34:43

All right, I'm going into the notes. I was not going to go in here.

Speaker 3: 34:47

But, anyway.

Speaker 1: 34:49

I don't know. I mean Snape's an interesting example though, alex, because we don't have to go too deep into this. No, this is what I meant when I said there is no narrative. I cannot see the narrative benefit or the narrative import of there being a mole, nothing to say. I mean Snape wasn't a mole first of all. He just had conflicting allegiances And he had like, narratively it works so elegantly and beautifully for his character And it's a huge bit of misdirection With Donna.

Speaker 1: 35:23

That wouldn't be misdirection, it would just be. It would really be reaching, like it would be random, it would be unassolvable and random. If you've got a resort to the nuances in the way she delivers lines or the fact that she's got her hands in her pockets to deduce that she's a mole, i feel like you're looking for something that it really isn't there, like that's my. I think those things are just choices. I don't think that they're informed by, i don't think they're informed by like a mystery To me. That's right up there with to me, that's right up there with zoning in on little pieces of randomly placed set decoration.

Speaker 3: 35:54

Really we've never done that before at all.

Speaker 1: 35:56

Right right, or the things that background actors do that put them slightly out of sync or out of continuity, and different takes and stuff, all these different little things. It's fun. Again, i wouldn't dissuade someone from doing it, it's a fun bit of business. But to me that's not evidence. To me those are like really spurious, almost unhinged little red herrings that don't actually. To me, the answer is gonna be in the narrative, the answer is gonna be in the story.

Speaker 3: 36:25

The answer is gonna be in the I gotta tell you.

Speaker 1: 36:26

And Snape's turn near the end of Harry Potter is embedded intrinsically within the story, because it's already a story about allegiances, about jockeying for power, about having the strength to overcome what is in front of you versus what you know is right, being on the side of right instead of on the side of might. it has all of those things built into it. I would venture a guest to say that he's not even 100% clear through the whole story where he's going to land in the end, because he's in self-preservation and trying to be the best version of himself he can be. That's not being a mole, that's trying to figure out who. you are Totally consistent with the thrust of that narrative, whereas this, like I don't. I'm just not seeing any of that. I don't, i don't.

Speaker 3: 37:12

maybe we don't know enough yet, and I'm willing to go there but I don't see any, and all I have to say is take that, take that would you remember?

Speaker 2: 37:19

No, i'm sticking with it, i'm just All right, give me your evidence counselor.

Speaker 4: 37:23

The thing is it's the beginning of this. I didn't start thinking about it until season two And it's just the beginning of these thoughts.

Speaker 3: 37:35

I'm not saying like if No, i know, i know, i'm just giving you a hard time.

Speaker 4: 37:40

Absolutely yeah, for sure I mean I was thinking it was her and Randall and I still kind of think Randall, yeah, like he's a little unhinged.

Speaker 1: 37:50

I think Randall is there. you know and again, this is just me kind of watching the show I think Randall is there to illustrate how a certain type of person in the world that we have not really seen much of in the show will behave and react when he gets there. What is a kind of right of center leaning, natural conspiracy theorist, distrustful of authority? What is that kind of person going to do? What are they gonna add to the soup when they show up in a place like this? To me, that's an interesting little bit of a thing that someone's gonna add to a story. that's gonna drive some tension, it's gonna drive some conflict and it's gonna force some other characters into situations that we haven't seen yet And hopefully move the plot along.

Speaker 3: 38:35

I think it was more of a fan thing than it was an actual Sure yeah, yeah, i think it was all created by the fans, I don't know. I mean, I'm not 100% sure.

Speaker 4: 38:46

I honestly, i started thinking about it on my own. It was just organic, like it wasn't fan driven. And then all of a sudden I'm seeing other people post about it and I don't go deep into posts Like I can't help but see them and I read them. but given some particularly negative and nasty stuff which one site in particular just evolved into, i really stepped back from that because I am not about that kind of being, you know, like we're all here loving the show. Well, let's all love it. I don't need to-.

Speaker 3: 39:26

Yeah, no, i mean yeah we're not about that, but okay, my question about the whole mole theory is this and please the people that are listening either on the podcast or tonight, yeah, give us your-. Take the whole mole thing aside. okay, it is a mole, it's a whole experiment. How do you explain the frigging monsters? Because when we had you on for your first interview, Bob, i think the words that you said to us were I shit my pants almost when that monster came through the door and almost scared the crap out of me.

Speaker 1: 39:55

And I'm gonna tell you right now. I'm just saying you can't like.

Speaker 3: 40:00

If they're gonna make a jump and say that they created that too, then that's a whole separate thing, but I just can't see that happening, that I think there's just other forces that are going on. Now the mole thing could be part of it, yeah, but at the same time I just think they're all just trying to survive And maybe-.

Speaker 1: 40:18

Oh, of course, my question about the mole, and again, we don't spend a lot of time on it, but, like, my question would be what do you need the mole for?

Speaker 4: 40:27

To instigate, to control, possibly report back certain things, to influence certain things happening. You know, like, if there is, if it is an experiment and they're looking for some kind of reaction or result, that this person would go in and encourage that to happen or set it up to happen, honestly, like I don't know, like whatever they would want a mole for.

Speaker 1: 41:08

Well, okay, so that's whatever they would want a mole for is an easy answer. You know not to be critical, but I guess, like everything you said up to that point, to go in there, to instigate, to monitor, to report back, think about everything, think about the world that they're living in. So, the people in charge, if there is someone in charge, if this isn't just magic, if it isn't like sort of extra dimensional magic, you know, sort of time, space, cul-de-sac or whatever you wanna call it, and again I don't know what it is You're basically saying that, okay, you've got a world where when they go into it, they can't come out of it, they're locked in. They're monsters that come out at night. There's magical stuff that happens. There's weird trees. They can clearly kinda track them and monitor them and they know what's going on. They're communicating with them through various means. They're communicating with them telepathically.

Speaker 1: 42:03

Someone is communicating to Sarah, to Boyd, when he gets the worms under his arms. You got all this crazy shit happening right. All this weird, wild, crazy, magical shit happening. Again, what do you need a mole for? A mole almost feels like a really quaint, unnecessary If it is an experiment and they're watching them and they've got all this nutty shit going on and there's all kinds of magic and stuff going on. What do you need a spy for? Like what are you sending like encyclopedia brown in there to take notes? Like, why, what is the?

Speaker 4: 42:38

import, like it would be important to have someone in there, as, like I mean, it doesn't make sense that she's just as scared as everybody else. She's not.

Speaker 1: 42:53

Play it through. Play the scenario through. Let's imagine Donna goes back to whoever it is she goes back to and she reports. What is she telling them? She's like ah, they're starting to suspect stuff. Yeah, no shit. She's like right, she's. Oh no.

Speaker 4: 43:13

Bob froze, He froze No he froze.

Speaker 3: 43:18

He's probably still talking. I'm back. No, he's back. He had to have a drink.

Speaker 1: 43:22

I can see it when I freeze. But anyway, you see what I'm saying, right, like you need to. you can't stop at theory. You have to take that theory and then you have to apply it in a meaningful, practical way and say how is that playing out? Like what do we? in a way, that's part that has to be part of the analysis, right? Hey Bob, i think Donna's a mole because of what she does with her hands and the way she said certain things. But wait a minute, like you have to kind of go, what is it that she's? what's the role that she's playing? What's the practical purpose? I don't see it Like. if there's a mole, it renders a whole bunch of other stuff.

Speaker 3: 43:55

I think the mole decided to like cut your little thing off and you were messing with the mole too much And he cut your.

Speaker 1: 44:01

Although I will say so.

Speaker 1: 44:02

Here's something though, liz, that I do like and I've been thinking about this a lot.

Speaker 1: 44:11

So I, a friend and I, had occasion to play a game last year, in the bit of the year before we got super into it, and it's called Don't Starve, and there may be some fans or viewers who play games that are familiar with Don't Starve.

Speaker 1: 44:28

But I'm not saying that there are a bunch of elements of this show that are similar to that, but the fact that there are so many elements of the show that are similarish to a crafting, surviving, kind of metaphysical, kind of magical, kind of monsterish game where you have to work together and cooperate and get food And you have to take shelter at nighttime because monsters come out of the darkness and try to put out your fire and kill you And your sanity meter is affected, your health meter, all these sort of things. I won't get into the details of it because it's kind of geeky, but the show has reminded me more of that than anything else that I've seen. Where to me the theory that maybe they're involved in some kind of game, to me there might be some foundation to that. And again, i can't really go any further than that because, i agree, i still think we're in the beginnings-ish of the story. We haven't been given enough meat to chew on yet.

Speaker 1: 45:27

But I've seen things that made me go oh, if this is a real life version of a bunch of players being dropped into a game and being expected to play and survive which we wouldn't question. If we just turned on a video game and started playing, You wouldn't see it as a horror scenario. But if it was happening in real life, it absolutely would be a horror scenario. And this business that you're locked in it There's elements of that that I'm seeing in some of the theories that I'm like yeah, I'm seeing it, I'm seeing pieces of that, I'm buying that.

Speaker 3: 45:58

Yeah, okay, i have another. Oh, i'm sorry there's one down.

Speaker 4: 46:01

I was just gonna say so. In this don't starve game there's no kind of wrath or anything like that. Any kind of moderator, you're just players.

Speaker 1: 46:10

That's the thing. That's the thing. No overlord This is the thing. This takes me back to the mole and then we'll move on from it. You don't need a mole when there's no overlord.

Speaker 1: 46:20

Okay, there is no bad guy watching over the game, monitoring things. There's just players and the game has been created and set for them And off they go. And new players show up, sometimes as you see in online massive world kind of games and stuff, and people die and they're gone from the game. Like maybe it is like a real world version of something like that, and the consequences like maybe my character and my character's wife and his daughter are out there like alive somewhere. Like maybe that is what happens when you die in the game You're back to your old life or something We don't know yet. Again, we haven't given any information. They just be wild, random theories. At this point We really don't know.

Speaker 1: 47:09

But there are a number of things like landmarks and in the game don't starve. You can go through these portals and pop up in different places in the world that you open up. It has limits. You can't get out of it. You can't get out of it. You're stuck inside of it. There's so many pieces that I think okay, yeah, that's a close comparator. I hope it's more interesting than that, frankly.

Speaker 1: 47:30

I hope it's wackier and more surprising. I wanna be surprised by a story. I don't wanna solve it, i wanna be surprised by it.

Speaker 4: 47:36

I wanna be surprised. I feel the exact same way, like I don't want to know everything, which is one reason why I don't spend a lot of time with the theories that people come up with. I might just read one and it is in one eye out the other. But oh, i just had a thought, i wanted to say something, but you know, oh, this was what it was. What if all of these people signed some kind of permission, saying that without realizing what they were signing?

Speaker 1: 48:13

Right.

Speaker 4: 48:14

Without realizing what they were saying. They signed a waiver saying that they could die or whatever. Like you bought a car and little fine print, this car could cause death or whatever you know And they signed it somehow, Like maybe not even something that's in common, like going into the hospital, the same hospital, or having the same procedure or whatever, Like it's not anything in common that they have with each other other than they signed this waiver saying that they knew they possibly could be killed. And that was that I don't know I just thought of that while you were talking.

Speaker 3: 48:55

One person said this is the MGM version of Squid Game, if that's what you're trying to get at.

Speaker 1: 49:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or that the game. Imagine how differently you would play a video game if you, while you were playing it, you thought you could actually die.

Speaker 3: 49:18

Forget it, you wouldn't take any chances.

Speaker 1: 49:21

Yeah, you'd be super, you'd actually play. You'd be playing for real. You wouldn't be playing a game, you'd be playing for real, whereas you know. So maybe it's not that they signed something saying that they wouldn't know that they could actually die. Maybe they can't actually die, but they actually believe that they could while they're playing. Okay, that'd be interesting, that's interesting to me.

Speaker 3: 49:38

Speaking of dying, we did have another question, And I'm really sad because one of the king of conspiracy theories is one of our listeners is the Cromenacle, and this person, I think, daily has a new theory. I mean, this is out there from the dates to the broken glass, which I do wanna talk about because it's interesting.

Speaker 1: 50:03

But yeah, i'm not familiar with the Cromenacle. Again, i go in and peek every now and again just to see some of the funny things.

Speaker 3: 50:10

But, johnny, you taught from the beach. you gotta love that picture of Michael Tabitha being in the real world. First off, do you think Tabitha is in the real world? Both of you.

Speaker 1: 50:26

Go ahead, Liz. I'm curious what you think.

Speaker 4: 50:28

I don't think so. I don't think so because when she looked out the window, the landscape looked like a postcard. It didn't look real. She might've been in the medical tent, for all we know, for the game.

Speaker 1: 50:45

Yeah, see, i don't, i see it. Okay, so that's interesting. So this is just me personally, and again, I may be wrong. It could be. It could be that the makers of the show are designing every frame and every set and everything every character does with a view to adding to the complex labyrinthian mystery. That is, where are we and what are we doing? Having been involved in a number of shows, including this one, i have a feeling that that's not how it is.

Speaker 4: 51:29

What that she's back in the real world, Oh no. Oh, it's okay, i'm back. It's okay, you're back.

Speaker 1: 51:38

It only happens for a second. It's just to get me to slow down. I think I don't think the answer lies in the in the what's in the window. I don't think the answer lies in what you can see when you freeze frame on the screen.

Speaker 3: 51:52

I don't think the answer lies. Yeah, because it looks like a different person. It looks like a different person.

Speaker 1: 51:55

It's not, but it's like. To me that's just like look, it's just post-production, it's just trying to make the thing look real. It's the scene, the scene. The answer lies in the scene. What is it that happens in the scene, in the story, in the plot? The answer is in the narrative And I don't think we've been given anything Right. We have not been given anything right Like. The answer is that she's either in the real world or she's not. If she's in the real world, the story takes a fundamental turn. It takes a fundamental turn. This happened at the end of season two of Lost. At the end of season two of Lost, in the final episode and my apologies to anyone who hasn't seen that show, you've no excuse at this point At this point, yeah, in the final scene of the second season of Lost, there is a reveal of a character and it's the first time you see a character who is not on the island but experiences something contemporaneous to something that has happened on the island.

Speaker 1: 52:58

It's not a flashback to the character's lives before they got to the island. It's in real time And that was the first time that you saw that there was an outside world existing at the same time as the island. That's a key, fundamental shift that immediately laid waste to a whole bunch of fan theories, theories that they were dead, that they were Like. It immediately kind of shuts so many things down because it's like oh, they are somewhere in the world and somebody somewhere else in the world experiences something because of what happened on the island. It's an immediate reveal that closes off a bunch of doors. I don't think this scene with Tabitha, based on what we've seen already, does any of that work.

Speaker 3: 53:40

I will say thank you, for I really don't think we know. Thank you for crushing my lost dreams and I'm not gonna want to see it. If I haven't seen it by now, I'm not gonna.

Speaker 1: 53:49

That's right, it's okay.

Speaker 3: 53:52

But my point being is anybody have potato vodka? Yes, that's a good one. Yeah, yeah yeah, You know they changed the still-a here. I hear the new guy doing the still-a's a lot.

Speaker 1: 54:03

I gotta tell you I go to read directly for the old stuff. He's got a bunch of bottles of it under his bed and I just go straight to him. We drank a bunch of it while we were doing King and Pawn. We actually For real. I don't know if you saw this We had. There was somebody in the fan group and I didn't. I think I saw it and I sent him a screenshot of it. There was some There's like a youth pastor for the church that we were shooting King and Pawn in the basement of, and he caught wind that we were there and he posted something saying hey, tom and Frank are currently in the basement of the church that I work at shooting a show. And Reed and I were kind of like oh, are we gonna have a bunch of people show up? You know they were just minor side characters. Nobody's showing up to see this.

Speaker 4: 54:42

I would have showed up. Yeah, oh, my goodness, i'm waiting for my.

Speaker 3: 54:46

We're waiting for our guest pastor to be on the show.

Speaker 1: 54:49

That's what we want, Like we fly up I fly up.

Speaker 3: 54:52

I got a couple of days. I can You know. I don't have to work for rate, I can work for vodka.

Speaker 1: 54:57

Yeah, absolutely. There was lots of that. We got lots of that.

Speaker 3: 55:00

Yeah, no, but there was a theory, and again there was one that was a time travel theory, which I don't really want to get into because they really didn't talk about those dates in the first. They talked about a bunch of dates in the first season and they really haven't gone back to that yet.

Speaker 4: 55:18

What they mentioned it. It was mentioned. Those dates were mentioned. This season, though.

Speaker 3: 55:25

But it wasn't like it was a big. It wasn't a big thing, but like they were mentioned, But the glass theory is kind of interesting and I'm going to explain why.

Speaker 1: 55:37

So Yeah, I'm not familiar with that.

Speaker 3: 55:38

Tell me that, Okay so Sarah breaks glass at the diner, cleans it up. There was like three incidences of like glass And then the last incident was when Jade was trying to fit those two members, when he was talking to Reid actually Tom the bartender when he was trying to do an experiment, And basically the whole theory is what Jade said was trying to figure out how these pieces of glass come together. Now rewind to when Nathan is talking to Sarah. They have a conversation and the only reason I remember this is because I went back and I'm doing a little bit of my own rewatch and she's like Sure, she actually talks about this theory of trying to put the pieces back together.

Speaker 3: 56:30

now I don't know how that all fits, but It does make it kind of like maybe it's something to think about in season three when we get there. now my question for you guys is this, because I don't know, and also the listeners and The people listen on the podcast Do you think Sarah's role is finished or does she have more secrets to provide? Saying this, she's not a mole, but she could have a connection to the bigger entity somehow.

Speaker 4: 57:07

She does, though. I'm saying I think I wondered if, if Once she didn't actively have the worms, like it was out in the open that she would not be of any use, but then when they go looking for the music box, she can hear it No one else can hear it, but she can hear it and she tells boy what he has to do right. So she's still connected somehow. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 57:40

Again, i agree with that. I think I mean, the So much of this is like narratively Driven for me, right, like I think, i think, i think I think picking up on stuff like that is Very much on the money, like to me. That's that, to me, that kind of stuff like okay, couple of characters had a conversation, then you have a character go through this sort of like journey Where they, they, they go from like think about what Sarah has gone through up to this point. Right, there's no way she's done because her arc isn't finished. She goes from being an instrument of this place, whatever, what, whatever, whatever that means, and I don't think it has to be propulsive, i think. I think it could very well be just like here's what this place does to some people of a certain type, and and you know, victor, i think maybe is a is Another example of a character, who's who's who's. There's some connections, there's like a tether between him and the place themselves, because he's had it.

Speaker 3: 58:41

He survived. How did he survive?

Speaker 1: 58:44

all these different things. So like I, i feel like I mean, have we seen Sarah and Victor together At any point?

Speaker 3: 58:54

I don't, they even had.

Speaker 1: 58:55

They had a conversation, i have I don't think that's interesting like there been a number of characters that I don't think they've shared any Narrative time together, right like they have not moved the plot together and it would to me it would be, interesting to see Like, and this, maybe, is where the glass comes into it, right, is that?

Speaker 1: 59:16

maybe the puzzle that needs to be put together is all the different people who have been affected by this place all coming together and sharing Their thought, and we got a teaser of that At the tail end of this season. When you have these characters coming together, sharing their experiences, finally, and then all you needed to have was one person in the room that goes, oh yeah, i've heard of that before, i'm familiar with that, here's what that that is. And then suddenly, suddenly, you have a Lowercase s solution to something and somebody figures it out and they figure out what to do. I feel like there's a larger version of that that is yet to happen, where characters like Victor and Sarah and You know people like that, come together and go. Let's share it, let's compare notes and let's talk about what's going on here.

Speaker 1: 1:00:02

Maybe that's the answer to us getting out of here, and that that would be a very elegant theme or you know sort of thesis of the show, which is to say that here we are all trapped in this mess Together, we're all at odds with each other, where we can be quite disparate in the way we go about our business, we can be isolated from each other. We're very affected by our traumas and by our grief and by our pain. But guess what? we all have a piece of a larger mosaic that, if we come together and we share it with each other, we will be able to come up with A solution. Whatever that it, whatever that means right and in this show, the solution. That is the metaphor of them being able to get out of this This, this drain, right? this Eddie in the middle of a, in the middle of a lake. That's that's what it is to me, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:00:56

To me, that's Narratively elegant and makes sense from a story Perspective. To me, that's so much more satisfying than an escape room that you find the key and you put it Right here and you get the bottle and you get, yeah, that's cool, great, good for you, you made it out of the room, but like it doesn't, it doesn't tell a story. That moves me in a meaningful way, which is why I don't take a lot of umbrage with people, necessarily, who speak up and say I'm not buying the characters, i'm not buying the writing, i'm not buying that. I may not agree with them, but if that's the yeah taking with the show. That's fair game to me. That's fair game if somebody's not moved by what's happening. If someone's not, i, you know. Again, i would say, well, wait till it's over, and then, and then we'll have a conversation about whether you To that point.

Speaker 3: 1:01:40

You know a lot of people. You know when we grew up we had 20 episode shows.

Speaker 1: 1:01:46

Exactly, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:01:47

Yeah, and people are saying that well, with only 10 episodes, everyone should be jam-packed. Well, you know what. You also have to set tables. You had to set the table for the good stuff and, and You know, we, when we would. We've watched the walking dead. I mean, we've watched every episode of the walking dead and I think that you know Every episode wasn't the greatest episode. There were some stinkers in there, and I don't think there was a stinker in here. I'm just saying but you got to move the plot and some of it isn't exactly the way we want it to be moved, but you got a. You got to move the plot and and I think that with an ensemble cast like this, we got so many moving parts. Yeah, it's not always gonna be great.

Speaker 4: 1:02:30

I, i, i Get the. Not every episode is going to be, you know, mind-blowing and exciting, but I don't think that there is any screen time wasted. I feel like to your point. You know they set the table and you just have to Make note of what they're trying to say there. You know, and I always and I'll continue to go back to what I thought was a throwaway scene of Tabitha seeing Marielle in the cabinet, and you know, you didn't know what that meant until the week after. But They are imparting information with every scene, whether you pick up on it or not. There's information there, all right.

Speaker 1: 1:03:20

I don't know we, i would say I would. So the only issue I would take with that, i guess.

Speaker 1: 1:03:31

And this intermission is Brought to you by Canada brought to you by Canada, very far away from where we are. The only issue I guess I would take with with that to a certain ex Liz is that, just as we don't know if it's not working Because we haven't seen the whole story yet, we also don't know if it's working Right. We don't know either way. Like to me, to me, some of the criticism, to me, some of the praise falls as flat as the criticisms, in that sense where when someone is saying no, no, no, guys, they're going somewhere. No, no, no, this all means something. No, no, no, this is all coming together. Anyone who's saying that is saying it on faith, yeah, totally Just faith, like we. Like you're a writer, liz. You've written stories, you've written books, right, like, have you written novels? Have you written full length, full length novels?

Speaker 3: 1:04:23

I know you've done in apologies right behind her shoulder or a couple of volumes of them.

Speaker 1: 1:04:30

Okay, but have you done in multi? do your books have multiple chapters of the same story? I'm just trying to track if they're just like anthologies of short stories.

Speaker 4: 1:04:38

Okay, yeah, no, continuous story.

Speaker 1: 1:04:42

Yeah, surely someone. Surely someone reading one chapter.

Speaker 1: 1:04:46

Mm-hmm of your book and you asking them What do you think of my story? What do you think like there the answers they can give you, both positive and negative, yeah, have a have a whole big world of blind spot around them. They don't know what it means, they don't know where it's going, they don't know whether it leads to something, whether it doesn't lead to something. They might have faith, they might be doubtful, they might be critical of things, that you go, oh, I Think we should freeze, frame all of his, his emotions.

Speaker 1: 1:05:26

But yeah, but you do. You do know what I mean though.

Speaker 4: 1:05:33

Is is. I think the question that comes after that is are you still on the ride? Are you getting off?

Speaker 1: 1:05:39

Exactly, yeah, yeah and that's That's.

Speaker 4: 1:05:42

I think that's the important question. Like I have faith I really do have faith that they are not going to lead me astray. Like they're not gonna leave me hanging out in the middle of the ocean on a raft with no way to get back in. Yeah, I really have faith that this time it's gonna happen.

Speaker 1: 1:06:02

Yeah, but I at the same time, i mean, i, i do too, but at the same time I I'm very mindful and again, i'm sort of, i'm sort of agnostic about it, frankly, but I, i, with any given audience, with every given story, it is my understanding that the story needs to do the work and That if you stay with it, it is an act of faith and if you don't stay with it, it is, it is because it has stopped Moving you, it's because it has stopped getting you to a place where you're even interested. Anymore, and no matter how great a story is, any story can lose somebody.

Speaker 1: 1:06:37

I don't know if you've, i don't If you've ever stopped reading a book or if you've ever read a.

Speaker 3: 1:06:42

Watch. Have you watched the walking dead, the Negan years?

Speaker 4: 1:06:45

I Gave up, i'm done.

Speaker 1: 1:06:49

Yeah, there you go, and a lot of people did a lot of a lot of people did a lot of audience dropped off at that point, me included, and it's like, okay, this story went to a place that. That got me somewhere emotionally and now I feel like there's nothing really left for me.

Speaker 4: 1:07:03

Yeah, that's exactly it. Like I got a text while we're doing this asking if I'm watching Dead City. Right right and I was like they. They made all this headway at the end of season 11 Maggie and Negan and then they go back as if they never had that conversation. I I Love the show, but that's all another conversation. Yeah, so I love things about it that I will never love exactly.

Speaker 3: 1:07:33

I do want to ask you, and the viewers and I and it's not really a theory but What was the purpose of killing smiley off when they made such a big deal about promoting the crap out of this guy and Do you think he'll be back?

Speaker 1: 1:07:55

I Mean, i have, i have this sort of cynical Hey, this is a show that they want people to watch, kind of answer, and I don't, i mean he's visually, visually he's, he's striking, he's visually, visually set apart. Right, yeah, let me be, let me be. I'm gonna say something that I am sure a whole bunch of viewers and fans of the show are Not going to like. I'm sure they're not gonna like it. He is not a character. Yeah, he's not. He is not a character and I know I, yeah, you know he's a character in the way that the aliens in the aliens movies like the, the Ripley and and really, and and Really, scott and James Cameron movies, how those are aliens, how those are characters. They're not characters, they're there. There's something that exists for the purpose of testing the characters and pushing their boundaries and seeing what they will, they will do and making something very compelling in a scary sort of way for the audience. They're not meant to be, they're not meant to be characters.

Speaker 1: 1:09:04

I mean it's like the Terminator is a character, But smiley just isn't they eventually made him a character, but in the first Terminator movie I would say he wasn't a character, really not really like I mean. I don't know, we can have, we can have debates and disagreements over what it means to be a character.

Speaker 1: 1:09:22

I'm all. I'm all there for that. But I guess I again I'm thinking from the purpose of, like, what is the story you're trying to tell and who is it You're telling a story about? right, if it comes to pass that that part of this story is about the monsters, that there's a whole backstory and a whole interesting bit, again, i'm a hundred percent there for that. I think that will be cool and I think there's some interesting things Hopefully to be revealed about what these creatures are and where they came from. If the show doesn't tell us that, i'll be deeply disappointed. I hope we do learn something about these things and where they came from. I really, really do.

Speaker 1: 1:09:56

But again, up to this point There's been sparingly little Revealed to the audience about what the, the intentions or the desires of these things are, other than to be menacing and to hunt. Well, that's, that's pretty much what they do. And yeah, i agree with you, though You get these little twists like oh, look at what they did to. You know again Phoebe Rex's character, like they clearly have a playful sort of element about them. Okay, add that to the list of things we know about these creatures, right, that still just makes them creatures, right, still just makes them there are. There are animals who there are. There are predatory animals who play like yeah, messer, like cats play with my, oh, my god.

Speaker 1: 1:10:35

They're not. That doesn't. That doesn't make them characters. It just. It's just an element of their predatory nature.

Speaker 3: 1:10:40

Bob, to your to your point. First off, i do want to mention this comment. You know, betrayed King, we don't like smiley, he's responsible of Donna's death, no, but But even within that monster theory that you're saying, you know I and I can't think of like perfect examples of it, but there's always that gray back or there's that spotted whatever, that extra spotted wolf. Yes, they're monsters, i think. When they put you on the poster and they and they put you out front the way he did, i mean I hope he can come back, just because he seemed like he was kind of the head of the monsters. And I know maybe I'm a little bit more, i'm drinking the, the smiley juice more than others, but you know, i just think it was. It was a bad move, you're you're so.

Speaker 1: 1:11:28

You're experiencing the story, and not just the story, but the experience of the show. You're experiencing the show Not in the order that the show was assembled, so the show was made last summer, so they did not kill smiley.

Speaker 1: 1:11:52

After putting him on the poster, they created a season of the show, they wrote it and they mapped it out. And then they they came up with a shooting schedule and they filmed it. And then, after it was done, they started assembling marketing material For the show to market it and to get people to watch it. And smiley, who was you know? again, that's something that fans of Kai, i think, we were the ones that coined it.

Speaker 1: 1:12:17

Yeah, like we. You know that that gets assembled and and there's a decision made. You know, let's, let's put it this way I'm not a hundred percent convinced or sure that when I was filming my stuff in season one and they were doing all that stuff with me in the box, that the plan Was to have the very first trailer of the show Be me in the box, you know, maybe it was yeah, but that's how it played out.

Speaker 1: 1:12:45

Like I don't think you always know. I think sometimes you do, but I don't think you always know necessarily how you're going to be presenting a Creative piece of work that you've made from a marketing perspective, until after you've made it, until after you've put it together and you go Oh, this is pretty arresting, this will be cool.

Speaker 3: 1:13:03

Again, i'm open to being wrong, but then maybe they knew all along that they were gonna do it this way, but you know you're making a really good point and I hate the fact that you're making such a legitimately awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:13:13

I'm ruining the thought you, but I hate it. You are ruining my fun. I know I'm very sorry.

Speaker 3: 1:13:18

I will say, though I mean even cutting it the way they did, like editing it. I mean they, they made them a focal point this year, and Sure and I just think it's a shame because I think he could have been a really good adversary. They obviously and I know Lizzie and I have talked about it They put a ton more money into the show this year. I Mean it's clear that they put more well, as far as far as marketing it. They did and also there was more monsters.

Speaker 4: 1:13:44

There's more, there was more a lot of stuff effects you know, one of the interesting things and I I wanted to ask the both of you what you thought like when Victor and Tabitha are down in the Caves and they come upon these monsters. They're not just coming upon these sleeping monsters, they're coming upon all these objects. And And it made me start to think about why those things, what do those things have to do with? You know, the, the monsters that are sleeping, you know, like the dummy, the chest, the, the television, the toys, all of that stuff, like even the brides suitcase was there. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: 1:14:37

So What are your thoughts on that? Oh?

Speaker 1: 1:14:41

It's clear, i mean it's clearly giving information. I mean I I've seen a number of things I feel like on the show that, for me, reinforces that there is no plan To that like, and by plan I mean like. I feel like a lot of the theories fall down because they presuppose that there's a puppet master. Yeah, right, yeah, even the mole thing, right, yeah, the the who's the mole? is there a mole? who could the mole be? why the mole? all of that is predicated on a, on a foundation, on an assumption that there's someone to report back to that There is that there is someone on the other side of an invisible wall who's playing, who's doing something right, like, like to me, to me.

Speaker 1: 1:15:25

To me I've seen more evidence on the show than I can feel like I can shake a stick at that. They're stuck in the middle of Something like not unlike. I mean, if you get lost in the woods, if you get lost in the woods and there are bears and there's mosquitoes and you can't find any, and you can't. There's spiders and there's stuff you can break your ankle on and all kinds of shit like that. You don't need someone hiding behind the trees Watching you actively trying to make sure that you don't get out of the woods. You don't need it.

Speaker 1: 1:16:00

You already have all of the elements you need existing in the natural world, in this case a very unnatural world, but hey, there's lots of natural stuff that happens. It seems otherworldly like to me. I have not seen anything that necessarily says to me that there is Something like that, with one exception, like with one, with one single exception, and that's the, the voice, the voice on the radio, yeah, yeah, like that's. That's the only to me, that's the only to me. That's the only thing that sits is a like a weird kind of outlier where I'm like Who was that? that was yeah like what like what.

Speaker 1: 1:16:33

What is that all about?

Speaker 3: 1:16:34

one of the things that we're talking about.

Speaker 3: 1:16:36

We're talking about man who and we're trying to recap season one, season two and possibly season three, and we already know what happens. Just kidding, no, but I did want to. I'm looking at the chat and before because I want to talk a little bit about Victor, because people are going crazy About that. But before we do that, lizzie, what was your thought of the whole? a cooie kids And where do you think that they all kind of fit in your mind? Because that was some of the worst close captioning. I think people are going ballistic for like two weeks.

Speaker 4: 1:17:10

Is that what it means? Is that really the spelling?

Speaker 3: 1:17:13

What is the whole deal with these kids, I mean?

Speaker 4: 1:17:16

I really don't know. I really really don't know, because Jade has now seen them. First, tabitha saw them, jade has now seen them, and I'm pretty sure Victor saw them in the cave too, like when they were poking out between those.

Speaker 3: 1:17:36

I'm not sure. I'm not sure if he did or not, But it's sooner or there. I mean Gales, they got beds of rock, rock beds, Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:17:46

I just I don't know Like. I really I really really don't know Like they look like ghosts in a sense because of their coloring And what we think about ghosts a lot of times, but I don't know. I couldn't really get anywhere with that.

Speaker 1: 1:18:11

Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty left field, like it really does, although again, the way for me.

Speaker 4: 1:18:15

That makes it fit like Are you going to say that they're moles?

Speaker 1: 1:18:19

Yeah, that's right. I think the kids are the moles. Yes, And the kids? those kids. when Jade stumbles upon them, they are pretending to sleep, Not unlike a kid pretending to sleep on Christmas Eve. Yeah. When they're trying to stay up to see Santa Claus. I mean again like I feel like when you've got all these elements, like if you play one of these RPG games, you know, in these kind of survival games, like Don't Starve, there is a, you know if there's this.

Speaker 3: 1:18:55

He's starving.

Speaker 4: 1:18:56

Yes.

Speaker 3: 1:18:58

A little bit of a pause for for.

Speaker 4: 1:19:01

He's drinking over there, so I'm going to drink.

Speaker 1: 1:19:03

It's so. It's so fun because you guys see this freezes before I do. It's so, so I'll see you react. You should almost have like a escape, like a word that you say as soon as I freeze, just say it and I'll stop.

Speaker 3: 1:19:15

I'm going to let it be on Kui.

Speaker 1: 1:19:17

And what I was going to say was I feel, you know, when I see those things, it's like they may not be connected, like there may just be a rogues list of things that exist in this world. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:19:29

And it's like, and as characters encounter them, they get, they get different pieces of the puzzle. you know the puzzle to be solved is how do we get out of this, out of this game? You know, again, i hope I'm wrong, but it does seem like, it does seem like that kind of thing. And even even the reveal of Jade, looking up and you realize that the symbol is the is, are the roots superimposed against the sky. That was cool And it was to me that was very reminiscent of the kind of thing that you would discover at a certain point in a game. You know, you see these references and then you discover for, like in loss, the numbers you know, like they have, you know there's, it's almost similar to that, or something that it takes on a significance for certain characters, does get revealed to be something, but it might not be, as it might not be as big of a connection that ties everything in as you thought it was going to be.

Speaker 3: 1:20:20

It's just like oh yeah, one of the lists are what Lisa said in the chat and, and she's right, somebody said that it might be a different language. It might be translatable, there's a whole lot of different things and, and it might not be the right way, we're saying it And, of course, You mean spelled.

Speaker 4: 1:20:37

It's not spelled Right. We don't know how it's really supposed to be spelled.

Speaker 1: 1:20:43

Has everyone seen On Koei?

Speaker 3: 1:20:46

On Koei.

Speaker 4: 1:20:49

On Koei. It means come back, okay Good.

Speaker 1: 1:20:53

Did you hear my question? Did I get it freeze?

Speaker 3: 1:20:56

before my question.

Speaker 1: 1:20:59

We both seen. We both seen Game of Thrones.

Speaker 2: 1:21:01

Oh yeah, oh yeah, of course, of course. Oh my God, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:21:07

I mean, what's what could be the equivalent? I like I do this My kids. I ask them questions about stories and see if they get it. What's the? it's very condescending and annoying. And I, I admit that. Holder.

Speaker 3: 1:21:20

Oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:21:20

Holder.

Speaker 3: 1:21:20

Holder Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:21:22

Holder Right Like, is it definitely?

Speaker 1: 1:21:25

His name, his name, his name wasn't even a mystery, but what a cool reveal when you found out where his name come from. Oh yeah, like it could. it could be something like that where the thing you're hearing isn't actually the thing. Like it's, it's it's something. It's something else. That is not something that we could like. What were the clues that told you that Holder's name was hold the door? What were the clues? I'm going to suggest zero. There were zero clues.

Speaker 3: 1:21:50

There were zero things revealed.

Speaker 1: 1:21:52

Yeah, you didn't know, you could not have solved, it was just a. It was just a, it was just a rewarding reveal, when you go, oh cool, that's it. Yeah, that was a cool moment. It's not something that can be solved.

Speaker 4: 1:22:05

Yeah, it was, it's, it's storytelling.

Speaker 1: 1:22:08

It's a magic of storytelling, that's all it is. I'm, i'm, willing, i'm hoping that it will be something really cool that nobody can possibly solve. that it's just, it's just going to be a neat, a neat kind of reveal about something. Again, i'm hoping all of these theories are wrong. I'm, i'm, i'm hoping that it's something so much cooler that that they've got cooked up here that we, we can't possibly think of it.

Speaker 3: 1:22:30

All right, i think the character that I do want to kind of point out, because Lizzie had her pulse on on her, and the beginning, do you think Tilly is more than just a little old nosy lady or do you think she's more to the story, cause I just think she, i know, i know so many Tillies in my life, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:22:53

There's just it's, it's everybody's like going crazy about her. Oh she, she thinks she figured out that the, that Fatima was pregnant, a woman knows, and all this other stuff. And then she brings up also the whole 47 theory where she had four, four kids, seven grandkids, and 47 was on the radio. So there's a bunch of there's. There's those two theories between Tilly and 47. What are you guys thoughts about Tilly?

Speaker 4: 1:23:20

first off, I mean she's kind of she acts like a busy body and that bugs me. But she's like a door opener. A lot of times She comes up and gives you a piece of information and it's a very short exchange And then she's on her way, like she seems very busy body, you know, like so, and so is here This one's doing that. Blah, blah, blah. The whole thing with Fatima. I was like I'm a woman, i don't know. I mean, i know if, if someone's like oh well, i'm late, well you know you could be pregnant, but looking at someone, you can't just look at someone and know automatically that they're, they're pregnant, like she doesn't know. Fatima.

Speaker 1: 1:24:19

Well, that's So in my world. what I would say is that that's inductive reasoning, not deductive reasons.

Speaker 1: 1:24:27

So, that's instead of saying what is my evidence? What is my evidence that this woman can't? can't? look at a young woman and go I've seen these signs before. I believe you're pregnant. What is the evidence that we've been provided that she can actually do that? I would suggest none. Yeah, there's no. There's no evidence whatsoever. The character says it and she's right. Yeah, she's right, and there it is. But to me it doesn't follow. That inductive reasoning gets you to the opposite conclusion, where it's like a person can't do that. Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Maybe this character can.

Speaker 3: 1:25:04

Hey, it's. it's from land We don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:25:06

And that's it. That's all there is to it, like I to me. There's nothing to be dissected there. I take, i take, i, unless unless something very clear is presented to me. I take everything that every character says, which is their delivery of the words on the scripts that they've been given. Every single thing that every character says is true to them.

Speaker 4: 1:25:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:25:26

I believe it. I believe it a hundred percent. There is no reason for me not to believe it. If I'm distrustful of every single character and suspicious of every character, i'm probably not experiencing the story the way it's intended to be experienced. I think she is a, i think she's an old lady who was on the bus and she's lived through a whole bunch of years and she knows she's close to the end. So she is taking she's kind of another example of the Randall thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:25:53

Yeah, all it does, it's it's. It's a bit of a thought experiment. It's like, well, what would someone who's at the end of their life, who's terminally ill, who's nearing the end, who gets told this is your fate, here's where you are. How does a person like that take it? How do they behave? Do they thrash about? Do they kick and scream? Do they question everything? Maybe they don't. Maybe they just take it and stride and go.

Speaker 1: 1:26:18

Okay, if this is where I am, then I'm just going to be chill, and maybe the person who's chill is capable of relating to people and experiencing things and noticing things that other people can't. Again, that might, that might be part of the bigger puzzle. Part of the bigger puzzle might be pulling people in who are just chilling the F out about the whole thing and saying what have you noticed? What have you seen? Yeah, from your perspective, are we listening to you? Are we? are we giving you time and space to share with us your observations? Maybe we're not. Maybe we're just being dismissive In a way, if I can get philosophical about it.

Speaker 1: 1:26:57

Maybe maybe the audience is these fans. Maybe their reaction to these characters is a bit of a reflection of the challenges that the characters are experiencing themselves Like. Instead of taking all these characters at face value and saying, what is this experience and what would what would it be like to me if I was in the middle of it? What would what parts of my character would it bring out? Instead of like questioning all these characters as if they're all trying to fool us and fool each other, we're going to miss all those really cool, interesting tidbits that come out of the come out of the story Like that. That, to me, that's where story lives, that's where narrative, that's where narrative lives, that's where an emotional journey lives. I actually buy her. I don't think she's suspect at all. I have not for a second thought that Tilly was suspect. I'm sorry, but I just don't. Yeah, i think she's just a new ingredient to the soup and and she's going to have something to add and something to pull, something to bring. And she did in this season. She did, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:27:48

It's funny. You should say that because I forget where I read it, or I think it might have been Liz that told I don't know if it was Liz Saunders that told us this, i don't think it was When she did that dance in the rain. That was all impromptu, that wasn't even part of the normal story, cause that's just the kind of lady that she is in general, like her real. Have you ever worked with her? The actress.

Speaker 1: 1:28:12

No no.

Speaker 3: 1:28:13

Okay, I just didn't know cause.

Speaker 1: 1:28:15

you are the the mayor of Halifax and I will say I will say this, though like if you've, if you've, like there's nobody going around, like the time. Time is of such an incredible premium It's such a time is of such a valuable essence when you're making these things. You got a crazy schedule, like for someone to be walking around and go into all the different actors and sitting down, have a conversation, go into background actors, going to the set decorators, going to the production design and saying, okay, you got to make sure that this is over here and that's over there And we're going to have all these Easter eggs and background actors. You got to make sure that you have this facial expression and that facial expression. You better go over here and go over there. No one's doing that. No one's doing that.

Speaker 3: 1:29:06

Wait hold on.

Speaker 1: 1:29:07

Like they're trying to. They're trying to tell a very it's actually quite a. I think that on any of these kinds of shows they're trying to tell a very straightforward story And the question is what is happening in the scene, in the scene itself, between the actors? What is the what is the beat, what's the story beat that's being communicated? What is the emotional experience of the actors? And everybody involved kind of has to take their own place in it at face value. You have to believe that what you're doing is truly what you're doing.

Speaker 3: 1:29:36

So vitally bitly says when Tilly calls Christy Quincy first day before she does an autopsy sketchy. no, it actually isn't. for this reason, the first day she knew her girlfriend Merrily and she knew that whoever lived there was the doctor. And if you're a person of a certain age you know who Quincy, dr Quincy is. I loved Quincy, i just think you're. you know, like Lizzie, sometimes you're reaching for stuff that isn't there.

Speaker 4: 1:30:14

No, no, i get what Bob is saying And the thing about it is that she might I don't know she might have ESP or something like that. She's psychic or something.

Speaker 3: 1:30:32

ESPN.

Speaker 4: 1:30:33

And sensed that Thadema was pregnant.

Speaker 3: 1:30:38

That's weird.

Speaker 4: 1:30:40

No, it's not weird. I mean, while we're, while Bob was talking, I'm like thinking about someone that I know that is pregnant now And I told her that she was going to get pregnant And it was before, you know, like they were trying and having no luck at all And I was like, within a couple of months this is happening. But the thing is like she just acts weird to me, You know, like she just shows up like a signpost. He's over here, I just need to drop this off. I mean, yeah, she needed to drop the morphine off, but was there something more to her dropping the morphine off? knowing that Mary Mary, Mary L was an addict? Like, did she already peg her on the bus? I mean, she didn't really have to drop it off. I don't know. It's just to me she suspect there's something off about her And maybe she just has a higher sensitivity to this place and is plugged into this place. Maybe she's just plugged into the earth, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 1:31:55

Okay, So I need to. I need to get myself yelled at. I did forget. Quincy wasn't a doctor. Well, he was a medical examiner. He was a doctor Right.

Speaker 1: 1:32:03

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:32:04

And that's kind of right, That is kind of a doctor, it was Dr Quincy, but he was a medical examiner, but then, but, but, but the but the but the person.

Speaker 3: 1:32:13

The person's point was then she ends up doing, christie ends up doing an autopsy the next day.

Speaker 1: 1:32:19

That that is a good one, i get it.

Speaker 4: 1:32:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:32:22

I think. I think it's a, it's a, it's a, you know, like there's a person of a certain generation that would you know if there was a, if there was a defense lawyer in the town. Oh, my.

Speaker 1: 1:32:34

God, yeah, defense lawyer in the town. There's a character of a certain generation that would refer to that person as Matlock I was thinking the same Or Perry Mason, but there's, but there's a person of another generation that wouldn't. It's a to me. To me it's like it's a generationally relatable, appropriate reference for that character. It doesn't signify anything. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:32:55

And again and again I would say, like there there are probably all kinds of shifty behaviors, assuming that they're motivated and purposeful and directed by the actor or or that they're actually instructed to do it, which, again, i have a hard time with, just just practically speaking. I have a very hard time with that. I think a lot of it can be explained by the fact that this is a very unnatural, even from an acting perspective. Even from an acting perspective, like as an actor, you're told to do things that human beings would do. In an unimaginable, unbelievable-ish type scenario where, where, where part of the fun of it is going, how would people behave? Yeah, what would they do? How would they act? What would they? and again, i I think if If Tilly's doing anything out of the ordinary, tilly's doing out of the ordinary things from the perspective of someone who's not yet situated in a place in their life where they've kind of given up on all of the hassles and the conflict and the, you know, like the tension, and that they're just like, this is my fate and I accept it.

Speaker 1: 1:34:02

And if this is where I end up, this is where I end up, what am I going to spend there? And that probably. I would suggest that probably is what, what motivates a lot of behaviors and ways of speaking and ways of relating to other characters and ways, and some of it is baked in and the writing that someone who doesn't quite get that, who hasn't seen that or experienced it or can't possibly relate to it yet they're going to look at it and they're going to go. We're.

Speaker 4: 1:34:27

Uncle Lee Oh boy.

Speaker 3: 1:34:32

Yeah, we're going to try to get to everything tonight. I know you're putting stuff in the chat. We may or may not get to everything and, trust me, we're going to have other people that are going to come on. It's just the problem with this, this awesome show, is it's got a lot of meat on the bone. So much meat. You can only. You can only. I don't want to be here for five hours, as much as I'd like to be.

Speaker 1: 1:34:53

I'm also. This is you can. You can label this episode the buzzkill episode.

Speaker 3: 1:34:57

Well, yeah, I mean Bob, Bob, you are.

Speaker 1: 1:34:59

Shits all over every theory and says, oh no, you guys are, you guys are cooked, you know you're. You're just, you're free, you're. You're doing that old school thing with VCRs where you like pause the movie and you, you lean in really close and you're like, can I see the seams in the rubber mask and the alien? you know like stuff like that, you know it's like, oh, wait a minute, that alien has a zipper in the back of their thing. Maybe that meat?

Speaker 3: 1:35:26

No, it's just a costume. Hey Bob, this is what I've had to deal with all season long, All season long It is fun, though I, you know, like you hear.

Speaker 1: 1:35:35

You hear me go on about the, the video game thing. I'm like you know, i'm like I, I it's, it is fun. It is a mystery. It's a. It's a genuine mystery. I just think the mystery is in the world. I don't think the mystery is in the characters. Okay, i don't think. I don't think anyone is suspect. Frankly, I'm I'm going to go on the record and say I don't find anyone suspect.

Speaker 1: 1:35:52

In fact, i, i to me, if there's a mole or if someone's suspect or if someone's villainous or if someone's being shifty, um, it kind of screws up the show for me personally a little bit. I, i want this to be a show about a really weird, bizarre, messed up, maybe magical, maybe otherworldly type place where regular, ordinary people from our world get put into. Yeah, and it could be an experiment, it could be a game, it could be great. I'm, i'm chilled with all of that stuff, but I'm, i'm not. I just I don't think there's a whole lot of value or import in dissecting the, the characters and trying to figure it through allegiances and they're. You know, this one's on the inside, this one knows something like I don't know, like to me, to me, that makes it a different kind of show than the one that I think it is, and maybe I'll be wrong, maybe I'll be totally wrong.

Speaker 4: 1:36:46

I just think she's weird. But let me just ask you this Um were when you were getting ready to execute your lines from the script. They could you add lib, or did you have to say them as written?

Speaker 1: 1:37:06

I mean I, i said them as written. I mean you have to remember too that, uh, you know my stuff was being done very much close to the beginning, right And and and, at best like a couple of months into into production. Um, so I mean, i think there were a few little bits and pieces that got changed and some different words. We definitely, there were definitely some things. There are things that get cut, yeah, there are things that get cut. There are things that get filmed that then get cut.

Speaker 1: 1:37:37

There are things that get edited in ways that you just don't foresee, that you can't anticipate. Like when you, when you're delivering your performance, you don't necessarily know what the thing is going to look like And honestly, i don't think even even the writing and the directors and the, they don't even know. Like there's a whole other process of putting the story together and editing after the fact, right After it's done. So it's not really like the people on the ground in the moment. You're just shaping the clay that's going to get turned into the experience that the viewers get put into. Like to to go all the way back to that point in the process and look at what an actor is doing on the day and say, Oh, everybody there knows, everybody knows.

Speaker 3: 1:38:23

What's going on When we get, when we get John, when we get John in the chair here where you are, which is not happening anytime soon. We will, we will make sure we're like. We know that, you know that, we know.

Speaker 1: 1:38:36

John. John Griff is not going to say squat.

Speaker 3: 1:38:38

He's not going to say he doesn't want to take our call.

Speaker 1: 1:38:42

No, he's not going to tell you a word. I mean he's, yeah, he's, and, but I mean, you know, I will say like I, I my, my expectate, my hope, but really truly my expectation is that he's got something cooked up in his head that is really interesting, that that will amount to something much more than just a puzzle room to solve your way out of, Right, Yeah, If it. If it's just a puzzle room to solve your way out of, it will end up being kind of uninteresting, I think.

Speaker 4: 1:39:12

I agree. I agree with that.

Speaker 1: 1:39:14

It's gotta it's gotta be more than that. That's why I say I don't. I don't think there's a lot of import to the theories that little things that characters do from moment to moment contain a whole lot of clues or a whole lot. I really don't think that It's just my opinion. I, i, i don't think they do.

Speaker 3: 1:39:28

So, bob, one of your fans wants to tell you that you don't want. You shouldn't be the show runner. They shouldn't have you doing your promo of the show, because your optimism of this is over getting I I, i.

Speaker 1: 1:39:41

This is an interesting point, though. This is interesting. I actually. I actually think that I'm I'm giving the storytellers a lot more credit and and praise as storytellers, because I think I think they're doing something much more interesting than just building a roller coaster ride. I I, i roller coaster ride. You get on it, you have thrills and chills and you scream and stuff. It's like oh, my God is that a thing Like and then off you go?

Speaker 3: 1:40:05

I mean I, i just I just hope that they're, whether it's a five year run or three, whatever year run it is, they get to. One, tell their story, but two, that they get a chance to make sense so that the viewers feel like, is it something that they did to get there? I'd love to know why they're there.

Speaker 3: 1:40:29

I'm not necessarily how they get out. But why? What's the common thread? Because the one thing about this show that's driving me nuts is they're from all over the country And they all see the same. They all see the same tree.

Speaker 1: 1:40:44

Yeah, i'm fascinated by it. I really am. I'm truly fine. I'm totally in for it and I'm dying for season three, like everybody else and I wish it was starting next week, like, anyone who thinks that I'm sort of anyone who thinks I'm shitting on the show is mistaken. It's taken. Yeah, i don't think you are at all. Yeah, i just yeah. And again, as I said, the theories are fun and I would not dissuade someone from making theories and coming if that's the fun part of it, if that's the fun game of it.

Speaker 3: 1:41:15

No, i know it's not the same thing. Aunt Kooie, aunt Kooie, oh, he's like the Aunt Kooie master today. So, folks listening to the podcast, every time we say Aunt Kooie, we encourage you to take a drink so that Bob can come back to civilization from Canada, cause he's still drunk from Canada today, cause it's a all month long deal.

Speaker 4: 1:41:36

Months long.

Speaker 1: 1:41:37

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:41:38

You know, i hope that it is just some kind of supernatural thing like a trap that they all fell into, like I know it's really odd. Arizona, detroit, florida, texas, like you know, montana, they're all you know. Their origin is so different. But I mean there could be vortexes that open at particular times and if you're there you end up in this place. Yep, you know, like Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:42:23

So pay your taxes or you don't go in the void.

Speaker 1: 1:42:26

That has nothing to do with taxes, but I just I mean like Now there is something that happened this season that so I was of the view that it was random, that it was just like okay, maybe there's an opening quote, unquote, opening that moves.

Speaker 4: 1:42:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:42:47

And it's just kind of moving around and there's some randomness to it, like a bingo ball machine. Okay Cool, that's neat. Something happens at the beginning of season two. That doesn't necessarily disprove that as a theory, but it does.

Speaker 3: 1:43:05

Uncle, Everybody take a drink folks.

Speaker 4: 1:43:09

I've got a drop.

Speaker 3: 1:43:10

She's got one drop left.

Speaker 1: 1:43:12

And he looks like he's saying just during the freeze moment I took a shot of of tequila, so that's what I do.

Speaker 1: 1:43:19

Yeah, but I was going to say that the thing that happened, the thing that happens at the beginning of season two, that to me is seismic, it's truly seismic. Is Christie's fiance showing up? Yeah, yeah, cause it's like well, wait a minute, what are the odds? Like, what are the? and they do they talk about it on the show. It's not like the characters of the show. Don't seize on that, there are a couple to do, right. But to me that's sort of like okay, that is a significant piece of evidence about something that I hope gets like again to your point, alex. Like as a viewer, i hope that that gets addressed in a substantive, meaningful way. I hope. I hope that's not something that it was like we conveniently did this so that Christie has a love triangle issue Like. To me that's a little bit too convenient, given the odds that someone like her is going to show up one day on a bus.

Speaker 1: 1:44:16

Because she was brought there or it's like. That's the part that makes me go okay. From a probability standpoint, this is significant.

Speaker 4: 1:44:24

Yeah, it's not impossible but it could happen. But the fact that it opened in the same area more than once in a short period of time like that's only been six months- Right And then I mean, even the same area is only part of it.

Speaker 1: 1:44:44

Like, even if the odds once you consider the odds that it opens in the same area, given how much territory it has to operate in, what are the odds that at that moment someone connected to one of these other characters just happens to be there at that exact moment? Like it is something that implies more of a connection to the characters tethered to the outside world. But again, the sample size is small. It's just Christie. we haven't seen it from anybody else. So Well, there's a theory going around.

Speaker 3: 1:45:18

There is that other theory going around that Elgin is the baby of Fatima and Ellis Ellis, because he saw that in the bathroom when he-. That's the other thing. There should be no tubs, there should be no bodies of water in from, because nothing-. And the other thing is Donna is not allowed to leave Colin and I house at night Because every time she does her frigging. Real husband does so much goddamn shit. Yeah, dale is on the shit list with me.

Speaker 1: 1:45:47

Yeah, yeah someone should have taken that.

Speaker 3: 1:45:50

Chris might be a good guy but Dale's on the shit list, man.

Speaker 4: 1:45:53

I can't find-.

Speaker 3: 1:45:54

He's got such a hard on for frigging Cordy, I mean for Ellis, it's like come on man, yeah, he's a, yeah, he's a wily commuter.

Speaker 1: 1:46:03

You got to keep an eye on that guy. He would be a problem. He would definitely be a problem. I wouldn't be leaving his door. But no, it's true, i always thought that that theory was reaching a little bit too. I didn't see Again, although I mean that might be interesting. but again, as with the mole thing, my question would be like well, why, like what-.

Speaker 3: 1:46:25

Yeah, i could see that happening, more than the whole mole thing, because that would create a whole time thing to that mystical stuff. That said and I do want to kind of shift it because I know a lot of the I mean it was a big deal with the show this season was. So last season, meaning season one, when Boyd and Sarah were in the woods they saw the tree of bottles. They broke a bottle that believed was her brothers And one of the fears was his fears was cicadas And that's what kind of possibly was the Brought the cicadas upon them.

Speaker 4: 1:47:15

They brought the cicadas upon them?

Speaker 3: 1:47:18

First off, what did you guys think of cicadas in general as a terror thing? And what do you think of that theory of those bottles? are dead people's dream or fears? Does that? I mean that? again, that's kind of an interesting twist when you look at it.

Speaker 1: 1:47:36

Yeah, could totally be. Like I would buy it as a. Again, this is my thing. Maybe somebody would be pretty quick or ready to shit all over this, but, like my, to me it's like, well, if that's one of the rules of the game that they're in you know that you know different characters have different character profiles and that if a certain thing happens, that character profile manifests in some sort of threat, it's like, well, it sounds pretty programmable to me and something that I might expect to see in a writeup. You know about a video game or something like that. Like to me, there's something compelling and interesting about that That seemed so deliberate to me that, like Sarah relating the cicadas back to her brother's experience, like if I was taking close notes, that definitely would be something that I'd write down And they did have dates in them.

Speaker 3: 1:48:31

They did have dates in them. I'm not saying that they didn't have the dates in them. I'm just saying that that was something that people were kind of saying And folks, we're not answering all the mysteries, We don't know what the writers are gonna do or whatever. We're just kind of bringing Bob into shit on everything. I mean justifying everything.

Speaker 3: 1:48:50

And then we'll bring somebody else that wants to just go down those deep dives as well. No, no, i just thought that the cicadas were kind of an interesting little thing because they are they're the most disgusting things ever.

Speaker 1: 1:49:04

They were. It was out of that field for me. Like you know, there's such a regional, there's gotta be a real regional aspect to that too, right? Like I certainly don't think of cicadas, as I mean I don't think we have them here.

Speaker 3: 1:49:18

Like I They don't have the-. They don't have passports. That's why.

Speaker 1: 1:49:21

Yeah, that's right, they're not. They don't have dual citizenship. We I mean we have crickets, and I don't think we're talking about the same insult, but we certainly No, no. Cricadas are certainly not something we experienced. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:49:33

Like this big Bob, like they're big. Yeah, huge. Like I saw a you know, the exoskeleton of a molted cicada on a tree And I'm like, oh my God, that's more than I wanna see. You know it had one fly into me. I thought it was a bird that hit me, But I know that we've had them in Massachusetts when I lived there And they're definitely here in Georgia because that's where I've seen the exoskeleton and had one fly into me. Like they look like birds when they're flying.

Speaker 1: 1:50:08

They're that big Did they swarm, like that, did they swarm people?

Speaker 4: 1:50:14

I've only seen one or two, Like I haven't. I really haven't seen a lot of them.

Speaker 3: 1:50:19

No, when I was a kid we had they come every like 27 years. they like hibernate, but like we had them when I was a kid, it was awful. I mean, they were everywhere. And they're big. They were big suckers.

Speaker 4: 1:50:32

They're big, they are, they're really big.

Speaker 3: 1:50:34

They're like this big and they would run into you and boom. And they have like no, they don't swarm, They're just everywhere And they're like. They're kind of like the most annoying things ever. They're loud. It's like when the Red Sox went. It's the most annoying thing ever. But no, I just but they're like useless. They're just, they're useless things.

Speaker 1: 1:51:00

But it is an interesting, it's a very interesting choice to use those And it was a real. It was one of those things where I mean the sound was interesting. The sound, i mean, there was an interesting implication of using cicadas as this sort of threatening element, which really only lasts for a few episodes. It's not like it's there from the very beginning, but it's because they generate a sound that can go away And so, but I did like that moment like I remember in the last episode the moment where it's like, oh, the sound is gone.

Speaker 1: 1:51:40

Yeah, The character is gonna take note and they're like, oh, we don't hear that.

Speaker 1: 1:51:43

Like, as a viewer, you caught it just before the character did. We're like, oh, that sound isn't there. That means something has passed, some threat of some kind has passed, and maybe now there's gonna be something new which I would say makes this season distinct from the end of season one, which is that we really don't the end of season one. You had the rain, you had the tower, and then you had the bus pull up And it was a bit of a cliffhanger. The cliffhanger at the end of this season is a cliffhanger for Monica, but it's not. Or Tabitha, sorry, but it's not a cliffhanger for everyone. Like, certainly they're gonna wonder where she went, assuming she did go somewhere, but I don't know where everyone else stands.

Speaker 3: 1:52:30

Well, something else happened in season one that was kind of important. You became an unemployed actor again. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1: 1:52:37

Although I don't think so. You gotta control your drinking better Come on Bob, I had other stuff too. Yeah, you just had Harold, i don't have time.

Speaker 3: 1:52:45

I know. I mean there was much of a cliffhanger beyond Tabitha.

Speaker 4: 1:52:52

Boyd solves the music box problem.

Speaker 3: 1:52:55

Well, yeah, there is Jade. Jade's lost in the cave. Well, he's just in the cave.

Speaker 4: 1:52:59

He's just down there. He's just in the cave. yeah, but like he's just in the cave, it's not really a cliffhanger. The cicadas stop, let's see, and then the three come out. Alison Fadema got married.

Speaker 1: 1:53:16

And Don is there.

Speaker 3: 1:53:19

Okay, so wait, let's just take stock of him.

Speaker 1: 1:53:23

You could do a time jump after this season. Yeah, you could, if nothing really would be disrupted.

Speaker 4: 1:53:29

Yeah, you couldn't. Last season You had to pick up with that bus, but this season you could, all right.

Speaker 3: 1:53:37

Yeah, All right, I got a couple of quick fire things because we're getting on the two hour mark and Crazy too long. Oh, my God Yeah and we haven't even like scratched the surface. And, folks, if you're listening to this, we're gonna come back and do this again because there's just too much And it's like four o'clock in the morning for Bob And I don't know if Bob wants to come back again.

Speaker 4: 1:54:03

What are? you talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:54:05

No, but that's it.

Speaker 3: 1:54:08

We're talking with Bob Mann the most optimistic.

Speaker 4: 1:54:10

I haven't been here in a week. Love it.

Speaker 1: 1:54:12

We're talking to Bob.

Speaker 3: 1:54:13

Mann, the most optimistic, theoristic member of our team today.

Speaker 1: 1:54:20

I'm loving this show and just taking the show down for. Just because I'm down for criticisms and down for shitting on theories and being like, oh, you guys have too much time in your hand, or whatever, none of that means I don't love the show. I'm loving this show. I'm getting the kick.

Speaker 3: 1:54:35

I love the performances.

Speaker 1: 1:54:36

I hope people keep coming back and be giving stuff to do. It's just, it's amazing, and it is as you two have no doubt discovered in your own way up to this point, but there are some really, really lovely people involved in making a show. No, they're all amazing honestly. Yeah, they really are Such a nice. We have been blessed.

Speaker 3: 1:54:58

Yeah, we have been blessed from top to bottom. And I say this Liz was the nicest one of the bunch in terms of this. She said yes first And then some guy, bob, said yes, and then the rest of it is history. I mean, everybody's been wonderful.

Speaker 1: 1:55:17

Such nice people, wonderful, such nice people Yeah. And talented people. They're talented, they're talented.

Speaker 4: 1:55:23

You know, this week I've been on set with Ann Dowd for a couple of days And I think Alex and I have compared Liz Saunders to her multiple times when we've been talking And I was sitting, i was having a conversation with Ann And all of a sudden I'm just like, oh my God, i'm going to have Ann Dowd and Liz Saunders in a buddy road trip comedy. Might be funny, that might be hysterical. Sure, why not?

Speaker 3: 1:55:54

Well, i keep saying to everybody there shouldn't be Harold that's nominated, it should be Liz and Scott and Harold, cause I really do believe maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid too much, but I think that they put the work in this year to deserve some Those good performances. Yeah, a great praise He just thought about killed me.

Speaker 4: 1:56:16

He just like the man, child, you know, and then confronting his past Like that, just about killed me.

Speaker 1: 1:56:27

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:56:28

Yeah, it was beautiful.

Speaker 3: 1:56:29

Okay, so we really didn't even get to Victor that much, but and we're going to get to him next time Cause I, like I said, but I just have a couple other things that I'd love for you guys and the viewers to kind of think about. You've got the the, the logo that Jade's been looking at all season long. Yeah, the logo at the hospital is very similar. It's very similar. I there's not a lot of you know, it's just similar, i believe. I think, like you guys believe, that she hasn't left the world, but she's in another part of it. I think the boy in white needs to get it, needs to get his mom and gets the crap beat out of him, cause he's a little. He's a little. I don't know if he's good, or do you think the boy in white is good or bad?

Speaker 1: 1:57:15

Both of you. That's a. It's a great question. I I I've not been given any. I don't think we've been given enough information.

Speaker 3: 1:57:23

Yeah, that's why I think.

Speaker 4: 1:57:24

You know he's good or bad. Yeah, It's tough because when you look at symbolism, white is always the good guy And there's just something about it that is telling me that the color is betraying us.

Speaker 1: 1:57:39

That we're being misdirected. Yeah, Yeah it could be. Yeah, i don't know what it is.

Speaker 4: 1:57:45

I really don't know. I mean, it's just a feeling, a hunch, whatever it is, but there's just something about it.

Speaker 3: 1:57:56

Yeah, you know Well, he thinks he's a hundred percent evil, but that's okay.

Speaker 1: 1:58:01

Right, yeah, he's not evil He's not evil, yeah, do you think?

Speaker 3: 1:58:09

do you think that we should have more Victor backstory next season?

Speaker 1: 1:58:14

I do find his whole thing interesting, yeah, but he's, he's, he definitely is a mystery, kind of to be unfurled a little bit. There's some, there's some interesting things going on going on with him for sure that I would love to, i would love to know more about, like, i'm really interested in knowing more about him, for sure.

Speaker 3: 1:58:35

I mean, how cool was it that he has his own trailer filled with cookies?

Speaker 4: 1:58:42

Well, not filled with cookies, but.

Speaker 3: 1:58:45

Filled with all sorts of stuff. I think we were uncooking Bob. There you go There, you go, yeah, yeah. But how cool is it that he has his own trailer, You know he inhabits.

Speaker 1: 1:58:56

He's the one character who inhabits more of the world than than anybody else. Like he, he knows about things, he knows where to go, he knows where to find stuff, he's got stashes, he's got drawings, he's got memories Like there's, there's, you know, like I. That's why I say like, i think that you know, put put him together with another character likewise situated. Suddenly you start unlocking things, the, the, the barrier to doing that which serves the story, which serves the narrative, is that he, he is still kind of stunted, yeah, emotionally, and and he's very traumatized and he's not interested in reliving it. You know, he's not interested in going through it again, as as as one is when they go through something like that, or or as some people are, i guess, and so that's what's, that's what's driving his closed, closed mouthedness. Something has got to come along and open him up, and I feel like it's going to be someone like Sarah, or it's going to be someone you know, it's not, it's not going to be a character who's trying to get answers.

Speaker 3: 2:00:01

Do you think Victor's story being exposed could cause more spoilers on I?

Speaker 1: 2:00:06

mean, i think so. Yeah, Like I think, i think that I think there's stuff that's gone on with him that is going to fill out the fill out the story of what's going on there and and maybe helpful. But you know, yeah, i feel like where we're going with that particular story is that that someone someone's got to call, like look there's. There's a neat little juxtaposition between what Jade does and what Tabitha does relative to Victor Jade's looking for answers.

Speaker 4: 2:00:37

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:00:38

And he apprehends that Victor is the key to answering some of his questions. And that's how he treats them. He treats them as a as a means to an answer. And so there's no. you know, like he he it's. he has a promising start with the whole violin playing and stuff like that, but he eventually pushes Victor to a place where Victor clams up. But then Tabitha comes along and she kind of treats him a little bit more like a, a wounded human being And suddenly we start getting somewhere.

Speaker 1: 2:01:08

Yeah, Right Like that's like someone, someone's got to kind of scoop him up and right, like that's why he, that's why he's so taken with with the little, the little guy, with yeah, with Ethan because he's like. he's more like a peer right Like he. he's on the same level with him, So he's not going to. he's not going to push him in the same way that they, the grownups, are going to push him, And I find it compelling, I feel like. I feel like it's got a lot of narrative potential.

Speaker 4: 2:01:33

Yeah, Yeah, I loved the when Ethan gave him a picture of himself. He drew a picture of himself. That was cute. That was cute seeing.

Speaker 3: 2:01:42

And he wouldn't take it And he's like that's only for dead people. But so, so, bob, we're going to wrap it up. What are, what are, some of the things that you're promoting these days, besides King and Prawn?

Speaker 1: 2:01:54

Oh man, yeah, i don't know We're. we're a pro, we're hoping to. I don't know when we're going to have season two of King of Pond done, but I'm working on the music for that And I wrote a. I wrote a decent chunk of it And I was in another show.

Speaker 1: 2:02:09

Awesome. I was in another show that filmed back in May, which I don't know when that assembly is going to be done, but I think the fall. So that will be on Bell here in Canada and on out TV here in Canada. And then I have a film project coming up next month and over the next little bit that I'm working on And did you have everything on your website Like are you still doing dates?

Speaker 1: 2:02:33

Cause I know you do dates Sometimes you do dates for you know what this this this summer is a bit up all over the place, so I don't have any dates right now for my, for any comedy stuff. I really don't have anything lined up. I've sort of stepped back a little bit because of how unpredictable my next month and a half is. The last thing I did was a couple of weeks ago And then I said, okay, i'm not sure, i just don't want to commit to anything or sign up for any gigs or shows because I don't know. I don't know what July and August are going to, are going to look like I totally understand.

Speaker 3: 2:03:02

I totally understand.

Speaker 1: 2:03:02

I've got shows like Sullivan's Crossing, and I don't. I don't know if my character is done on that show or not. I don't think he is, but I don't know. Actually know that for sure. So I've got to, i've got to leave some space for that, but and then we hopefully will be working on, you know, season three of King and Pawn in the fall. So you know, that might be a whole thing unto itself.

Speaker 3: 2:03:27

And I've been involved in the writing of that too. We might just have to cover it, you know, just cover it You have to find it, Alex.

Speaker 4: 2:03:32

At least Sullivan Crossing is coming on Hulu.

Speaker 1: 2:03:35

Yeah, it's coming in. It's called C-Hulu and it's going to be on Hulu. Yeah, we've got to, we've got to.

Speaker 3: 2:03:40

We'll be able to see it. It'll be great. I think we'll be able to get a copy once it's done. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 2:03:45

I'm going to show Moonshine. That was.

Speaker 3: 2:03:48

I'm doing, I'm doing So. Yeah, folks, just so you know we're going to be wrapping up in just a minute. Whenever, whenever, the He's back The satellites come back from Canada. Yeah, i'm back, i'm back, i'm good He's back. No, but that's great. I mean, it sounds like you got a lot of stuff on the back burner or on the front burner And you got a graduating son. I think I saw.

Speaker 1: 2:04:15

Yeah, i saw him in high school last week and I got a kid who graduated elementary school last week And yeah, awesome, all kinds of fun.

Speaker 4: 2:04:23

Congratulations Thanks.

Speaker 3: 2:04:25

What's the first thing you tell your kid when he graduates elementary school? Get a job.

Speaker 1: 2:04:29

Yeah, start doing your own taxes.

Speaker 3: 2:04:31

Pretty much.

Speaker 1: 2:04:32

Here are the forms. Fill them out. Yeah, here's how you cook eggs.

Speaker 3: 2:04:39

But, folks, if you enjoy what Bob is doing, please check him out on Sullivan's Crossing and all the other stuff that he's doing. If you enjoyed what we're doing, hit that subscribe button, just like we did before. Hit the bell so that you can get all of our stuff, because we're gonna have a bunch of interviews that are coming up. We've got a really special one that we're not gonna release yet, but it is a pretty special one with it's Bob. He's coming back again. No, it's somebody a little bit smaller than Bob when it comes to the marquee, but no, it's gonna be fun And again.

Speaker 3: 2:05:17

Bob, thank you so much for everything that you've done for us, And I mean that anytime we've had any type of posting, you repost stuff. you've been one of our biggest cheerleaders and God knows we need all the help we can get And after this it's only gonna get bigger because you're positive attitude with the theories. Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1: 2:05:41

And I wanna say I celebrate all the fan like I am not complaining. I love how many people are into this and debating about it and talking about it. That's never a bad thing, it's only a good thing, because it means people are watching, they're interested and they're having a lot of fun, having a good time. So, yeah, nothing but positive vibes around.

Speaker 3: 2:06:03

Well, folks, it's getting late, so the bells ringing, so let our famous roller coaster constructor take us out. Get you home, let's go, come on. Get in your house, let's go, come on.