49: FROM Deep Dive Rewatch into "Choosing Day" with Bob Mann: Set Secrets & Haunting Narratives

Tonight, Bob Mann—alias Frank from the haunting series that's captured our imaginations—joins our intimate late-night chat, bringing stories from the icy Nova Scotia set and dissecting 'Choosing Day,' the third installment of our spine-tingling saga. As we peel back the layers of our beloved show’s dense narrative and character dynamics, Bob's personal anecdotes offer a rare glimpse into the heartbreak and camaraderie that fuel the series' powerful storytelling.

In a narrative that is as chilling as it is enthralling, we explore the emotional landscapes navigated by the cast and characters alike, from the choosing ceremony's profound impact to the foreshadowing that rewatches unearth. The show's intricate family dynamics and the themes of loss and mourning are examined through Bob's insider perspective, which enriches our appreciation of the craft and the affecting performances that resonate off-screen. 

We wrap up with a deep dive into the snowy enigma of Frumville, pondering over Sarah's cryptic situation and the supernatural elements at play in a town shrouded in mystery. With Bob reflecting on past collaborations and hinting at what might lie ahead for his character, we sign off with a mix of heartfelt reflection and eager anticipation. Join us for a journey through a chilling narrative maze, where laughter and terror walk hand in hand.

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46s: Filmmakers talk origins, challenges, budgets, and profits.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Let's make some magic here. All right, everybody just All right, here we go, Ready. One, two. Ah Welcome to the show. My name is Alex, I'm Lizzie and our special guest is Bob Mann, aka Frank, and thank you so much for you know. I know there was a lot of planning going into this episode and I know you have a very busy schedule and thank you for taking the time. I think we called you like what an hour before we were recording and you still had the time.

Speaker 4: 1:03

Yeah, thankfully, thankfully, it's two in the morning here in Atlanta, canada, and so I'm free, and it's the long night, like in, just like in True Detective season four. It's like all it's nighttime, all the time. So we have nothing else to do, we're just sitting at our computers and waiting to talk to people.

Speaker 3: 1:24

Well, I just saw that episode last night. Did you guys ever see 30 Days of Night?

Speaker 4: 1:30

You know, I think I did. I think it did many years ago. Yeah, I still love it. Many years ago. But are you talking about the episode of True Detective?

Speaker 3: 1:40

No, no, I did see. I saw episode one last night of True Detective. I'm in love. But, there's a horror movie. Josh Harnett stars in it, but it's set up. It's set in Alaska, in town that has 30 Days of. Night.

Speaker 4: 2:00

And it's the same sort of thing where it's set around the big long after the sunset. The big long, yeah, cool.

Speaker 3: 2:06

Yeah, and vampires set in.

Speaker 1: 2:09

Well, before we get into all that good stuff, I just wanted to get back to like why we're here.

Speaker 1: 2:14

If you don't mind, we are going to be talking season one, episode three, choosing Day, and this is part of our rewatch series. But before we do that, folks, if you are into the podcast obviously you must be and you're into Bob Mann and all the other stuff that we do Hit that subscribe button and give us a review. And if you liked us, it's Alex, and if you don't, it's not Alex, it's Randall. That said, hopefully we will actually get this done sometime tonight. I know it's not Sunday, but we like to say Sunday is from day and, although I don't have my shirt, you can always go to our Etsy store, which is the what is from shop, and get your shirts, your mugs and anything else you want to do. That said, what's your name? Again? Lizzie? I'm sorry, lizzie, I totally like you Freaking blank. It's so we get to know each other.

Speaker 4: 3:18

Your relationship has transcended names and now it's pretty much a vibe between you.

Speaker 1: 3:24

Yeah, we just vibe, we don't speak at all we just kind of grunt right now, because it's so goddamn cold in New Jersey.

Speaker 1: 3:32

I mean Atlanta I mean dude, it's not negative. But I know one thing we like to go hiking and I don't like to hike when it's not near my age and I'm 52. So in the 40s, maybe even 30s, when we get into the 20s and the teens, I'm sorry I don't do that, and when it's so cold out that it's like. I have a friend of mine who also lives in Quebec, outside of Quebec City, and she's telling me it's negative, whatever Celsius. And I'm like, when you got negatives going on, I'm sorry that's not for me.

Speaker 4: 4:12

Yeah, that's a frame of reference, but the negative Celsius is your 20s.

Speaker 1: 4:21

I understand, but still I don't want to need negativity in my web.

Speaker 4: 4:24

It's a psychological shift that does no good things for you. Yeah, well, it's interesting, it's? I mean we have it's pretty mild here in Nova Scotia. They're filming from season three as we speak and they're outside sometimes and I got a whole bunch of friends are there and stand in the back too, and people that are just none of them, and I'm like what's going on? Are you guys doing stuff outside? They're like, yeah, we're doing stuff outside. It's it's, it's cold for outside, but it's still doable.

Speaker 1: 4:54

They're pulling it off Now have you had a lot of snow?

Speaker 4: 4:58

Not really. No. Like a few bits, a few dustings of snow here and there, there was what we probably had, one significant snowfall back in December, and that's it.

Speaker 1: 5:07

Because I would love to see, like from in the snow. I'm sorry, I just would have loved to see what would happen with these monsters, and I know you can't tell us anything because you don't know anything, I don't know, just make, make stuff up and nobody's going to know, it's just the three of us. That being said, let me just get back to the the question.

Speaker 1: 5:28

And what is your first thoughts, lizzie? And I ask you that first because you were in it, bob, so I just want to ask her first because it's our show.

Speaker 3: 5:39

Well, I also don't expect that. Bob just watched the episode.

Speaker 4: 5:46

So you didn't, but I but you know I am, I it's, it's the script, though I mean in terms of the script and the episode it's it's the one I'm most familiar with. It has not to jump on Liz's bit here, but I do know that, like from my perspective, I remember reading the scripts and and kind of thinking oh, the third episode is when a first initial kind of arc of what this place is all about kind of comes home. And I think I said this when I was on the first time. Not only is the scene of the choosing ceremony, the first time you kind of see most of everyone there in one place. When that scene was filmed it was the first time that everyone was together in one place in the cast.

Speaker 1: 6:36

I do remember you saying that. And I also, I think, didn't Harold give you guys like a pretty amazing speech at that point? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Speaker 4: 6:46

I thought maybe you had said something like that so I think it was Jack I was referring to who gave a really cool speech when, when we were filming what was then my last scene, which was at the swing Right, my daughter swing, but but the but one.

Speaker 4: 7:04

I guess one of the interesting things about it is that there was a sense, like Liz Saunders, it was her first day on set, jesus Like, and she said that to me. She said that to me. I just assumed that everybody were good, they knew each other and everybody was. I remember chatting with her and saying so you know, have you been fine? She's like this is my first day like this, and and and it wasn't my first day, but I was. I was kind of shocked because I I realized in that moment that it was in this episode, the shooting of the scenes of this episode, that really people were starting to figure out what the dynamics were and and what kind of the tone of the show was going to be, and some of that you figure out in real time and I just felt very privileged to be there for some of that.

Speaker 1: 7:52

I have a very cool yeah, I really have to say this is one of my favorite episodes and it's one of my. It's one of the episodes I don't like watching because it's so emotional and I know, I just got it.

Speaker 1: 8:06

I mean, I'm kind of taking your first thoughts first, but I just I hadn't watched it in a while, obviously, and I watched it and I didn't. You know, we were going to go through all the episode and she had said this is the, this is his episode, and I'm like I thought it was next week, meaning the fourth episode, but I remember why you were in it, sort of I have right beginning, but yeah, but, but it's just it really brings it home and and there's a lot of questions that people outside of from really need to look at. You know these bigger questions and you know where. How do you want to live your life? How do you want to do all these? How do you want to, what do you want to live and how do you want to live? I mean, you know you went through a journey and but anyway, miss Liz, what do you, what's your first thoughts?

Speaker 3: 9:40

I think you just covered it all in both of you really, because this encapsulates what the show is like a day in the life when you actually live every side, like you see every scene that someone's going to experience. So you know, I my two favorite things, I think, in this episode is watching Jade encounter the town under the assumption that it is an extreme escape room, and I loved it. But I also when Bob, not Bob when Frank's monologue, for one, I really really loved a lot. But when he is in the box at the end of the episode and the monsters are coming up and he's looking out and you know he's seeing the faces and you know when we get there you could maybe tell us what Frank was thinking, possibly, or what your mindset was for him.

Speaker 1: 10:58

Yeah it was oh shit, yeah, I do.

Speaker 4: 11:03

I do actually have an interesting thing to talk about at that scene that I don't think we talked about when, when I was here before that, that just occurred to me, but I'll save it, I'll save it Please.

Speaker 3: 11:13

That's great and that's another reason you know. You know we're doing this rewatch and it would be nice if we could have certain people come on so that you know, I don't know like honor, honor their effort in a particular episode. And you know, when I was thinking about it, I was like I think we would be remiss if we didn't invite Bob back on to have him hopefully want to share this with us. And possibly, now that there's a couple of other thoughts that at least I have, you know, maybe you can give me your thoughts, whatever they are. Sure you know whether I'm on off or like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 4: 12:09

Well, it is always interesting to rewatch an episode of a show. You know that's a mystery box episode, you know, I think I think I said at some point in one of our conversations that the show lost has been one of the shows that I've rewatched a number of times with with each of my kids as they come, as they get to a certain age, and every time, watching it from the beginning, you're seeing things and picking up, picking up new things in the context of how, you know, the story goes.

Speaker 3: 12:45

Right, exactly.

Speaker 4: 12:46

You're hearing that moment in episode two when one of the characters basically summarizes the entire show.

Speaker 4: 12:52

Yeah which feels it seems so innocuous and, you know, not very weighty when you first see it. But then going back and watching and you're like, oh wow, they gave us. They gave us some pretty big macro, long long range hints off the top, and I've certainly watched the first few strokes of from in the same way going huh, I wonder if there's going to be something someone says or a bit of dialogue or an exchange between two people that actually, you know, foretells the long range arc. I don't know, like you know, who knows, but it's an interesting exercise.

Speaker 3: 13:32

It is. And there there's definitely I actually, when we get to scene 15, I actually circled the word lost because there was something about that. But as we're going through this, we can acknowledge that you know we've watched all the way through the second season, but but also in light of that, having that, you know, basis that we can look at this differently and catch something we didn't catch before, and I definitely have some of those things going on.

Speaker 1: 14:12

So why don't we, why don't we get into the cold open Sure?

Speaker 4: 14:19

Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 3: 14:21

All right, bob, you're up.

Speaker 4: 14:23

Just start and fire into it when the show opens. When the show opens, we're treated to a nice little uh uh uh Tableau of Colony House. And we're moving through Colony House and we see the kind of stuff that people get up to when they're just hanging out chilling at Colony House, stuff like they're smoking. People smoke cigarettes, darts, as we call them here in here in Nova Scotia Colony House. You see some people hanging out having sex with each other right out in the open. There are no rules at Colony House. You just do, you just do you at Colony House, and it's it can be jarring, depending on your uh sensitivities.

Speaker 4: 15:02

Uh, of course there's lots of sleeping going on, including the Matthews family who who have had a hell of an ordeal, just a bucket of syrup of a time, and they're exhausted, they're sleeping. But Tabitha is sleeping fitfully because she's dreaming about the events that have led them up to this point. And then she's having a hammering on the door, trying to get into Colony House, uh, seeing the monsters, not knowing what the hell is going on, and she's probably uh low key, traumatized on on some level. And then Kenny's gunshot wakes her up, jars her out of her sleep. She sees Julie sleeping, she's having a hell of a panic and Jim comforts her, and, and that gives us a sense of where this uh, beleaguered family is at this point in the story. I don't know if there's anything you want to comment about there, but I to me, this is just some bit of place setting to bring us speed, uh, as as to what's going on with these folks.

Speaker 1: 15:58

Agreed. I mean I, I love this because, yeah, it is a lot of place setting. We really don't know anything about Colony House. No, except for they have guns. The guy at the front door won't open it. There's yeah, yeah, and Alice and and Donna runs the show. Yeah, I mean that's pretty much all we got, and then the next day, you know, it's like the the, the headache after the party.

Speaker 4: 16:26

Yeah, for all we know, this is like a, a frat house or it's uh, you know, answer me these questions. Three to get in the front door. You don't know. We don't know what, what, the what? The deal is here with this thing? We just know that we were in a town and now there's this old Victorian, cool mansion up in the up in the middle of a field, which is, you know, again, I, I do. I do think that the place setting of showing us what people do in Colony House kind of gives us a sense of the, the dichotomy, which I think turns out fairly quickly to be a false dichotomy. You know, it's really it's, it's really only kind of notional that Colony House is where you go to live life to the fullest and and enjoy, enjoy the debauchery of the senses while, uh, while, the good Christians live down in the town, like that. It doesn't, it doesn't really play out that way.

Speaker 1: 17:20

No, Well, what's interesting about that whole dichotomy is, to your point, they do have a lot of rules, yeah, and they have very strict rules. It's just everything. Once you're inside those walls, anything goes. It's just. You know, you have to be able to get in those walls.

Speaker 1: 17:42

Yeah, and I there's. There's a lot of good things you know I keep going back to and I said this, I think in the last two episodes Donna I think last season said it was either last season um, she said everybody gives Colony House this the bad rap. But you know what one? We're a family and two. You know you know we live life a certain way, yeah, and, and that's all we do. It's not that it's better or worse. We just, you know it's not as it's not as crazy as you think. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:15

And, and I don't think, you know, at the end of the day, I don't think Donna would allow it to be that crazy, because she's she's pretty an old curmudgeon, so to speak, in a lot of ways, so she's not going to put up with that crap.

Speaker 4: 18:27

But surely, surely, though the show demonstrates and you know you look ahead to the two seasons surely the show demonstrates that Colony House is worse, Isn't it like the place is only ever going to be as secure as your laziest or or most unpredictable person. And if you, if you put 20 people in a place, you're raising the possibility and the probability that someone in there might get a little unhinged or they're going to be sloppy or they're not going to know, whereas if it's just you and your family, it's just four of you living in a house, or a couple of two, or something like that you can be like okay, unless you got an alcoholic dude like Frank who's who doesn't know who doesn't know how to use some nails.

Speaker 4: 19:11

Yeah, it doesn't hammer the window shut or whatever.

Speaker 1: 19:15

Okay, I have a. I have a question for you. Yeah, how long do you think Frank and his family were in from?

Speaker 4: 19:26

Oh, it's so good. I'm my, I think when I was, I believe when I was sort of, you know, and I wasn't doing like a deep history or anything like that. No, no, no, yeah, I'm an actor that kind of looks at the text and draws everything I have from the text, and in a lot of the background history work that's sort of hypothetical and not informed by what you're reading. It doesn't help me all that all that much a lot of the time. But one thing that did occur to me, though, was that they were they've been there long enough that he's kind of lost hope and lost a bit of like aim. I pictured them as being a family a little bit more, and I actually think this is informed by the narrative. I think what you're meant to understand is that Frank's family is. Perhaps when they showed up at at at Frumville, they were maybe a little bit more like the Matthews family.

Speaker 3: 20:23

Yeah, the reason I asked that.

Speaker 4: 20:25

What can happen. You're seeing what can happen to people if they get broken down and lose hope. His wife clearly, just she seems to be doing just fine, right yeah, but but that does fly a little bit in the face of how long they got away with having the windows not nailed shut. It sort of implies that it's a new problem, but but I think they've been there for a while. I think they've been there like a couple of years.

Speaker 1: 20:48

The only reason I ask is I take question with your wife like why the hell didn't she nail the freaking windows and again. I'm not you know, I mean it's just, I know there's no answer for it, but it's just like it's so annoying because you go in the box for that and she's just as guilty. And yeah, a man protects his family Get that Totally right. But do A mom protects his daughter, her daughter. And that really made me mad. That really made me mad.

Speaker 4: 21:23

I'm gonna tell you this my friend Ann Doyle, who plays my wife on the show, has never once expressed an iota of remorse or accepted any responsibility for what happened to our pretend fake characters. And you know some things. I've always been hurt.

Speaker 3: 21:41

You should be. You have every right to be hurt.

Speaker 4: 21:44

Thank you, oh my.

Speaker 3: 21:44

God. He's responsible for your death. I feel very sorry.

Speaker 1: 21:48

And Bob, I was just gonna try to get her and your poor daughter to come on and to surprise you, and it's not gonna happen, unfortunately. But I think it would be like more of like a Jerry Springer type of thing where what is your problem, woman?

Speaker 4: 22:06

Yeah, surprised Frank is not the father.

Speaker 3: 22:12

Exactly Maybe that's the whole problem. Maybe she dropped that bomb when you got there Honestly. Yeah, you know why do you feel the hopeless? All right, so let's go on to Jade.

Speaker 4: 22:25

Let's move on. So what goes?

Speaker 1: 22:27

on. Sorry, we'll be talking about that for hours.

Speaker 4: 22:31

Yeah, jade wakes up in his room. He's all tied up and stripped Cause he was I mean, he was a whirling dervish, like he was just causing all kinds of problems. Who knew what the hell this guy was gonna get up to? He's nuts as a bag of hammers at this point in the story. So Don has got them all strapped down to the bed Cause you don't know, he'll break stuff, he'll I don't know, he'll steal what's his name's peaches. So she's got them all tied up and she basically says to him listen, there's more going on here than what you think. And he's like this is nuts, this is crazy, what's going on, let me out of this bed. So she, she, yeah, he demands that she unlock them and she's like no, no way. And then, of course, he plays the whole. Well, listen, I'm someone important, I'm a big, you're one of them.

Speaker 4: 23:20

You're one of them.

Speaker 1: 23:21

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 23:22

I wonder if Don knew who he was.

Speaker 4: 23:26

Well, I mean, we're not a hundred percent sure. Like is he supposed to be? I mean, I guess at this point in the story we're meant to understand that maybe he's like.

Speaker 3: 23:34

A.

Speaker 4: 23:34

Bill.

Speaker 3: 23:34

Gates kind of guy.

Speaker 4: 23:36

Well, I know I don't think a Bill Gates kind of guy because he'd be like to me. That's a little too big Like I think maybe he's Sam Bankman-Free before he was Sam Bankman-Free, like something like that, right Like he's on, he's on the verge of becoming maybe some kind of tech, you know he's the was before was became the was.

Speaker 4: 23:58

Yeah, like something like that. I think that's what it's meant to be. And and again, you know, we don't know how time works, right? So maybe he's been a big deal out in the world for a couple of years, but maybe only a month has passed in Bromville, we don't know. We don't know.

Speaker 3: 24:14

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:15

Right, there's an interesting question, a total side note for the viewers. If they do get out, if they do get out, what will time be Meaning? Will they go back to when it was, will it? I mean, it's just a sudden throw out there.

Speaker 3: 24:36

All right, so all right, let's. Let's get through, we're never getting through this episode. I swear to God, we had better get through this episode.

Speaker 4: 24:45

So much think about OK, I'll try to go a little bit, I'll try to go a little bit faster.

Speaker 3: 24:49

So it's not you, it's Alex.

Speaker 4: 24:51

It's my fault, I mean one. One of the great things about this moment, though, in the episode is that when Jade pulls the whole listen, don't you know who I am, don? His reaction really does underscore this attitude that exists in the town of like it doesn't matter who you were before you got here, you're here now, you're here now and we're all, we're all on the same, we're all in this together, same playing field, which, which you know, creates a bit of tension for Jade. That takes him basically the entire episode to to let go with. He still kind of walks around with this sense of like. I have a special sense of entitlement, for no other reason that I think this is a game and everyone else is an actor in it and this is all for my benefit. It's so narcissistic, it's beautiful, yeah, yeah. But so it's fun this episode. You get to see him kind of reduced down to to everyone's love.

Speaker 4: 25:38

And then we cut to Boyd, poor Boyd waking up in his little, you know Dickensian cot, in his, in his Sharers slash post office, which is just so charming, and he goes and checks on his, his, his cell dude, and and it's poor Frank and Frank is he checks out the box you know the box is sort of foreshadowed as it's going to loom large over this episode and checks with Frank, and poor Frank has just been reduced to a shell of a man and tells him, says no, I don't want anything.

Speaker 4: 26:17

And then tells him that, you know, lauren, lauren always liked him, lauren always liked the sheriff because she thought he was going to get everyone out of here. But so much for that. And you know, the whole thing went to shit. But then then Frank does tell, does tell Boyd that he wasn't always like that, tells Boyd that things used to be different and and that there is one thing he'd like to do before, before, before the whole thing gets, gets wrapped up, because we all know what's coming and that's the end of that. That's the end of that first little stretch.

Speaker 1: 26:54

Okay. Yeah, I think. I think that you know he really does. You know Frank really sets the table for what happens to him and he, he tries to, he's trying to redeem himself. But I think basically he's just like I'm done. I mean I just want to go home.

Speaker 4: 27:12

Yeah, what's the what's the point, right?

Speaker 4: 27:14

Like there's no I mean you still you still, you still don't have, you still don't know, you still don't have a sense. You know, you, you, you have a sense that he's got to go in the box because it's already been introduced as a concept, but you're you're not sure how it's going to play out. This is the, this is the dead man walking slash law and order episode, where it's sort of like well, is this the kind of town where we send a guy to his death, or or do we play it a different way? This is the prototype. Yeah, this is, this is, and we don't know that off the top, we don't know that until later on in the episode, but the box has not been employed. No, it hasn't been in play.

Speaker 4: 27:55

Yeah, that's right, so that's important.

Speaker 4: 27:58

And then we cut back up to Colony house and Donna's sitting, with Jade having to come to Jesus moment where she's trying to trying to talk him through the business and and and he begins with one of my favorite lines in a, in any movie or television show where you're meant to understand that someone has just been told something, and it's when a character says so let me see if I've got this straight. You're telling me that you know like it's such an effective thing in a, in a TV show, it's, it's, it's summarized as well, it, it's efficient, it cuts down. But I don't know that I've ever in my life frankly said something to someone or had something told to me and then, and then either one of us followed it up with. So what you're trying to tell me is and then basically repeat what it is, that Exactly.

Speaker 3: 28:59

Wait a minute. But Bob, you have kids. Yeah. You must have caught at least one of them doing something, and they tell you the story. And then you're like so you're telling me.

Speaker 4: 29:13

Yeah, I, I, I suppose, yeah, I suppose that that's maybe a real your kids are perfect right. Just like I've never had to do that Liz like.

Speaker 3: 29:21

I've seen the pictures, they are perfect.

Speaker 4: 29:23

Yeah, we're gifted communicators in this. Yeah, yeah, you just make everything work on the first round because we don't got time to rehash it, right.

Speaker 1: 29:33

Well, you guys are from Canada. You're like the nicest people in the world.

Speaker 4: 29:35

Nothing, just nice to each other and and everyone listens carefully, that's what we do, but yeah, so basically, this is the you know, this is the summary moment where J it's like so so you're telling me this, that that's what this is. And I was like, yeah, pretty much, that's the, that's the size of it, buddy. And Jade looks around at people and he's like, is this for real? And you know, ellis, or whatever, they're like, yeah, yeah, this is for real. Sorry, that's what you're stuck in. And that's when Jade has the idea that like, ah, that that Toby, what a clever, what a slippery, slippery fish set up this elaborate birthday party Michael Douglas, sean Penn, esk Game, rube Goldberg for me to escape from, and I guess I'm going to have to solve the mystery. I'm serious down.

Speaker 1: 30:29

I love the best part is Ellis is like you want me to go after him and Donna is like, no, just let him go to town.

Speaker 4: 30:41

Who knows what's going to happen to him. His wires are going to fry. But let him go. At least we don't got to look at his his hairdo anymore. Let's just let him go.

Speaker 3: 30:54

Yeah, I just love his excitement through the whole thing. And then I'm thinking I'm looking at him and he's got like a Beach Boys shirt on. Yeah, like the Beach Boys, oxford, like you know, a boy of summer, like he's fresh off the boat.

Speaker 4: 31:08

He's fresh off the boat, yeah yeah, it's bad. So he comes out, so he leaves the house. You know, I was like, ah, oh, sunlight, what is this all about? And and and he checks out some stuff that's going on. I see a note here. This is really fun. So Jade sees a sculpture and he comments it's not quite his GMMETI. Is that right GMMETI?

Speaker 3: 31:32

GMMETI, I don't know. I never heard of the guy.

Speaker 4: 31:36

I just I figured I'd look it up and yeah, fun, fun fun little footnote for the, for the, for the listener, because this is, these are the kind of details that may hold the secret to deciphering this show.

Speaker 1: 31:51

So I'll be right, bob, bob, eight will. In Lizzie's eyes, everything is important, yeah, until it's not. It's the key. Is that sculpture?

Speaker 4: 32:03

Yeah Well, listen, you know, but but not for nothing. You know and I can't remember who where everyone is in terms of lost. You know we keep going back to that example but, like you know, there's a character in that show whose name is John Locke.

Speaker 3: 32:17

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 32:17

And then and then later on, he assumes this the pseudonym of Jeremy Bentham. And unless you've studied philosophy and and and you've gotten familiar with some of those works, I mean that's just going to, it's just going to go right over your head. They're just names, right, right. Once you know that those names are taken from philosophers you know around the time of the Enlightenment or whatever, then then you start to understand oh, there's something else going on with this show. Like that's not accidental, that's in there on purpose and it's shedding some kind of light on what sort of attitude or what or what kind of issues that the show is kind of touching on. It is kind of an early, early, it's an early hint, right, it's an early giveaway that that that there's something more informing it.

Speaker 4: 33:06

But Alberto Giametti, it says here, is one of the most important sculptures of the 20th century. His work was particularly influenced by artistic styles such as cubism and surrealism. And if you find, if you find fromville and it's shenanigans and goings on, either surreal or cubic, then perhaps there is some I don't know what cubic means, I just threw that out there, that. But perhaps there's some relationship between this, this 20th century sculptor, and from, I don't know, maybe the whole place is sculpted. But what does he see? He sees Clara riding her bike, takes it from her because it's his and everything here is his for the taking. He take whatever the hell he wants. Right, this is, this is an escape room for him to play in. And she's she's kind of surprised by this. He takes it back because that's not a thing, that happens. And then you know, it's not a motorized scooter that he's accustomed to, or a hoverboard, but he just takes it and he just scampers off like a little scallywag to explore the hints and clues of the town. And there it is. We have yes.

Speaker 3: 34:16

I'm not aware you know that we have had two contests at each, at the end of each of the seasons, where we ask people to draw a scene from the show. Oh, yeah yeah, someone drew that.

Speaker 4: 34:32

Beautiful.

Speaker 3: 34:33

And it is so good. Yeah it's just so good, I'll send you a picture of it.

Speaker 4: 34:39

but I want to see it. Class, class warfare comes to Fromville via Jade.

Speaker 3: 34:45

Yeah, they nailed the whole feeling of what happened. You're giving it on.

Speaker 1: 34:52

It's in our, it's in our intro and it's also on our YouTube channel as well. We'll send you a better picture, yet Definitely Might I say it is inspiring.

Speaker 4: 35:02

What a kickass escape room experience that would be Like come on. Have you ever done an escape room? Like we go in the room and things are hidden. There's keys in little bottles and you got to solve a little. You know Rubik's Cube and that unlocks the thing. Imagine a whole town. That would be awesome.

Speaker 3: 35:21

It would be awesome. It would be awesome, but I would ruin it for myself because I get so deep into my head, yeah, that I'd be freaked out. Yeah, and the one escape room I went into I was just like this isn't real. This is. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:39

Walk into the whole thing Me I still. They'd have to say, dude, we're closing the keys right there, Get out.

Speaker 4: 35:48

You'd be. You'd be wandering around the town just sort of not sure what's going on, and Liz would still be on the bus studying the upholstery of the sea Pretty much Like there's something about the weave. There's teams of the seats. That holds the clue. Yeah, oh God, that's right.

Speaker 1: 36:06

Let's get back to the Matthews.

Speaker 4: 36:09

We go back to the Matthews family, poor Matthews family who've just wow, what a roller coaster ride. And poor, poor Ethan, he's, he's all banged up. He got a. He got an old timey spear through the leg or whatever that was that he got impaled by and and he looks out the window. And who does he see? I think maybe for the first time in the show we see the boy in white out there Second time Was this the second yeah, because he said he saw him at the end of the night before.

Speaker 3: 36:41

Oh, ok and he wakes up and the kids still there.

Speaker 1: 36:44

OK, can I just say something about this real quick? Yeah, isn't it kind of a little creepy the way he looks at this kid? Like the way he looks at him? Yeah, he's just kind of like. It's kind of like he's almost looking like your kid would on YouTube, just kind of like zoned out. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 37:01

And the boy and way.

Speaker 1: 37:03

And then the boy in white isn't looking like. He's looking a little freaky too.

Speaker 4: 37:08

Yeah, because he's a boy in white and it's almost like. It's almost like neither boy has ever seen another boy before. Kind of you know like oh, I thought I was the only one.

Speaker 3: 37:20

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 37:22

I mean the boy in white just kind of waves and smiles, yeah, like hey no but he's like I see you, I see you, I see you, therefore you are. And he is like in a Descartes in kind of way. And then Ethan is kind of like I see you, but I'm not sure if, therefore, you are. This is all new to me and I'm not. I mean, I think you're real, like I think. I think he sort of takes for granted that he's, that he's real, everyone's taking it.

Speaker 1: 37:50

I really wish, I really wish this was a more popular show and it could be on Saturday Night Live, where they could have the boy in white doing different things, like I gotta go to the bathroom or I, you know, bring out food, or you know. I can see a whole skit with this.

Speaker 4: 38:02

Sorry, he needs a. He needs a nap, yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:06

Or whatever.

Speaker 4: 38:07

Yeah, so Ethan sees the boy in white and he's just like oh interesting, I'll log that away in my head for your reference and not say anything to my family. That does not validate anyone's feelings at this point in the story, which is one of their big challenges. So Ethan wants to go outside and play, you know, because he's a kid and he's also made a new friend. So he wants to go outside and and and and hang out and maybe play, I don't know, throw rocks at birds or something. And Tabitha says, no, you got to stay in bed because your leg got impaled by, by a footstool leg or whatever it was yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 38:46

Ethan. You know, ethan, he's just a dumb kid. So he starts complaining right off the bat. He's like these pajamas are too itchy. You know Julia comes in and saying you know like, oh, I don't like people going through my stuff. This place sucks. People were having sex out in the couch. I don't know if she says that, but surely she saw it and yeah, and he's like they were right here. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:08

Yeah, like they're right there. I mean, honestly, that is an image you just can't get rid of. No. For a while.

Speaker 4: 39:16

I don't know who this, I don't know those people were too. I don't know who they got to do that. I really I never bothered to look into it. Presumably it's a couple of background actors that they just pulled aside and said hey, listen, we got a fun, we got some interesting things for you today. I don't know if that's how it worked. I have no clue.

Speaker 1: 39:33

I know, I know, I know you know, I did hear, I did hear on the wire that you did try to apply for that particular job, though yeah, on the on the list, I went in, yeah, so I did a good, good self tape for that.

Speaker 4: 39:48

But no, I didn't even get a, didn't even get a callback for the 16.

Speaker 1: 39:55

Damn you got.

Speaker 4: 39:59

Yeah, no, that's probably. It's probably the only other scenario under which my mother would say, yeah, I don't think I can watch that show Like I know, I know you're in it and I and I hear it's, it's cool and people are talking about it, but I don't think I can watch it Like really getting getting killed by monsters or having sex on a couch in front of a bunch of people. That's probably it. Those are probably the two. Those are the two dealbreakers.

Speaker 1: 40:25

Oh my God. Yeah, I'm so glad that you have well defined. You know rules with your mom.

Speaker 4: 40:33

Yeah so.

Speaker 4: 40:35

Just know what the boundaries are. So, so, so, yeah, so the kids are, kids are, kids are like this place sucks. How long are we going to be here? What is going on? We we got to take off because these clothes are too itchy. And and Tabin says we're figuring it out, don't worry, pump your brakes, kids. Mom and dad are going to figure these things out, even though we don't know this yet. But mom and dad have passed the point of trying to figure things out. They have, they have called it quits and no one knows this yet. So that's a neat little bit of stuff to reflect on now that you know the deal with them. But anyway, they're hungry. Ethan, ethan I love this note Ethan wants hobo eggs.

Speaker 3: 41:18

Is that when you cook them in a plastic bag and water? I don't know.

Speaker 4: 41:23

I know, I thought it was when a hobo freshly lays eggs. I thought that that's what that was. No, I'm just kidding, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 41:29

I don't know what hobo eggs are either. I don't know what they are either.

Speaker 1: 41:33

No.

Speaker 3: 41:34

But I'm going to nitpick a little bit, because we're in the second episode and we're trying to learn about no, the third episode. We're trying to learn about where this family has landed and you do get a clue that something is off, because we know that there all their clothes are back in the RV, because Jim has gone back to get them.

Speaker 4: 42:01

Right.

Speaker 3: 42:02

Ethan's in pajamas and he's complaining that they're itchy. And I think the three of us are old enough to remember those kinds of pajamas, because if you look at the style, there's 70, the cowboys on them. Remember your flame, retardant pajamas when they first came out and they were kind of in weird fabric and they would be itchy.

Speaker 4: 42:29

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:30

I remember those and I was like he's.

Speaker 4: 42:33

Velcro, velcro, pajamas.

Speaker 3: 42:35

Yeah, that's what they felt like. So he's like sleeping in some dead kids 1960s pajamas and then when his shows up, they're all soft. They have sharks all over them. Like the style has totally changed, so that's all I have to say about that. He just needed the Halloween mask that we used to have those creepy masks, and that's why.

Speaker 4: 43:01

That's why kids these days are not resilient. They're just, they're butter cups. That can't, that can't withstand any kind of pressure, is because they don't wear those itchy pajamas like they used to back in the 70s.

Speaker 1: 43:13

I think we're solving problems on all fronts here, Bob.

Speaker 4: 43:17

Yeah, I'm very, I'm very, I'm very pleased with the progress that we're making. So, yeah, so Tabin says no, there's no hobo eggs. You got to eat cream of wheat or porridge or whatever. The whatever the colloquialism of the day is in, in, in, in fromville. So Julie's like screw this, I'm going for a walk, I'm going to go.

Speaker 1: 43:38

All right.

Speaker 4: 43:40

I'm going to go out in the dangerous world. That is a guess, ok, because it's daytime. I'm sorry, I wouldn't be going outside for weeks, you think.

Speaker 1: 43:50

Like I would be what.

Speaker 3: 43:51

I saw, after what she saw.

Speaker 1: 43:55

Yeah, dude, I get drunk every night.

Speaker 4: 43:57

Yeah, you'd be freaked out, You'd be totally freaked out and you'd be like I don't care how many hot ellises there are out there walking around, I'm not leaving this place. I'll watch from the window, like I'll watch them swim in the in the lake from the window, thanks. So Tabin that goes out for oatmeal, ethan looks out the window, boy white is there, but he's not smiling anymore, he's just looking back and so there's a little bit of tension, but even waves, because he's friendly and he was raised right. And the boy in white, he smiles and he waves back and it's like, oh damn, this is going to be, this is going to be a match made in hell. These two friends, this is going to be bad. And and in this room there's wallpaper and the plants are hanging to dry, there's a painting over the fireplace mantel of a woman and you're like what is this place? Is this Rousseau's Black Museum? What yeah?

Speaker 3: 44:54

I never got to go back to the. There's plants hanging to dry out, like in herb, like as an herb, like you know, dill or basil or mint or whatever. They're just hanging to dry. But there's a painting over the fireplace and it looks like it's a woman, but you know like, say, like a early 19th, well, maybe 20th century, something like that, but it looks like someone painted white Rimmed glasses on it. Oh. I don't know, it was just something I caught, not a big deal.

Speaker 4: 45:35

I bet, if you look really close you can see eyes behind the woman moving.

Speaker 1: 45:41

Actually actually Bob At. It's the cat clock From yeah, that goes back and forth, yeah and it's like, yeah, that's where the mole is.

Speaker 4: 45:53

The mole is behind the painting, watching everyone and reporting back. My god, because she couldn't see clearly and she has to run from room to room, following people, looking through the people's All right, let's get to the series part get back at the diner. Back to the diner, by the way, folks.

Speaker 1: 46:19

Just so you guys know, we are trying to do a rewatch of season one, episode three, choosing day with Lizzie and Bob man, and hopefully Lizzie will let us do it, but she's just Interrupting.

Speaker 4: 46:38

I'm gonna let you guys take responsibility for how slow it's going. I think it's me, I think it's most. I really don't.

Speaker 1: 46:45

But, by the way, since, since we're talking about you and it is all about you, do you have anything coming up that you've been doing? We?

Speaker 4: 46:54

so we finished, we've we filmed a Much longer format season three of king and pawn back in late November, december. And it is. It is crazy. We did a musical episode and we did a film noir episode and we did a flashback hallmark spoof episode. Man, we just went crazy. We we partnered with a new it's the, it's the guys who produce trailer park boys, and they said, well, why don't you do season three with us and we'll give you a six twenty two minute episodes instead of the Sort of the bell five. So we just went, man, we're just gonna do crazy stuff, lead sings in it and we've got all kinds of all bunch of fun, just super fun things. And season two of king and pawn comes out in a few weeks, also last year's. That's fun.

Speaker 1: 47:43

And where? Where do you say in Canada? Where is it on usually?

Speaker 4: 47:46

Canada. You can only see it on on bell five, which is like one of the Canadian carriers in In in in Canada. So you need to have that service. But then season three and actually seasons one and two are going to be on the swear net, which is an online streaming service that the trailer park boys have, and you'll be able to see all of it and it's a very Subscription to swear net is only like a couple of bucks. It's like two, two dollars and fifty cents a month, like anybody can can get it once, once it's up. Once it's up, I'll let you guys know. You'll be able to watch the whole thing. You could see me and read and a bunch of our friends and you'll see some people from from pop up here and there, some people who've shown up and done little, little, little one-off things and stuff like the best part is you survive.

Speaker 4: 48:33

I know, yeah so there it is, let's get back to.

Speaker 1: 48:41

Let's get back to the supermarket.

Speaker 4: 48:44

We get to the, we get to the diner. You know Liu and you know mr Liu, of course, has just been found dead. So these folks are reeling from that loss. It's been a terrible. I mean episode two was just a mess, right, he was a crazy mess, so ever. The dust is settling, we're in, we're in, we're in post dust settling mode and she's flustered and Kenny's flustered and you know he's trying to clean up a little bit and and and you know she's, she's mourning and grieving and stuff like that. So there's a lot of tension between the two of them. Note here the glass and the broom dust pan are blue. I Don't know what it means.

Speaker 1: 49:26

Yet a coincidence. You know what it means. They found it at Walmart and it was blue, yeah. Yeah it was a dollar and there's only one.

Speaker 4: 49:38

There's only one Walmart in Frumville and when you go into that Walmart you can never leave. You're stuck in Walmart, which is not that different from a regular Walmart pretty much probably the inspiration for the show, honestly. So you know, she, she, she feels really guilty and bad because she sort of thinks that you know, miss Lou, she thinks if she'd been there Maybe it's things could have been a little bit different. And Kenny's like now you couldn't have done anything, like you wouldn't have been able to help dad, like this was, this was gonna be bad, no matter what Sarah comes in and we all know what Sarah Got up to, but nobody else does so this is a real tense moment for the viewer. They're like oh, she's a snake in the grass and and she's responsible for mr Lou Getting killed.

Speaker 4: 50:30

So Right, this is a freeze. This is a threes company moment where somebody knows something that someone else doesn't and it's all. It's all just a parade of nonsense and and but she feels bad, she does feel bad. You know there's, I think, she, she does feel guilty and she wants to help and she looks up at Mrs Lou and that's the end of that little little tense set up. I don't know if I explained that all that well.

Speaker 1: 50:58

You did a great job.

Speaker 4: 50:59

Yeah, no, I mean.

Speaker 1: 51:00

I think I think, mrs Lou, you know what I find. What I found really fascinating about her is she's very focused on what she does. She's she's that old school she might break something. A typical mom hey, we got, we got customers coming time for this, let's do this and calm and carry on. Someone dies. You get back to work and and the fact is I Didn't want to say this to Lizzie, but the glass, when it actually broke, it was in the shape of the cromenacle. I'm kidding, I.

Speaker 4: 51:40

If you frame advance and you turn it upside down.

Speaker 1: 51:44

it's the map no um yeah, yeah I think, I think, though I think that the relationship between her and Kenny is just so sweet and and I mean on a serious note, you know it, I, as, like I said, I love this episode, and I didn't like it For the simple fact that it just was really emotional for me because I had a close relationship with my mom and my dad died when I was very young, so it was just kind of like, ah, ah yeah, you know, it was really a. They did a great job.

Speaker 4: 52:19

There's a lot of relatability in different places depending, there's almost a little bit of something for everybody. It's like something horrible has happened. Things were, things were cool. I mean, one of the interesting things about this moment in the show is that you're told in no uncertain terms that Things have been pretty quiet for a long time. We 96 days. Yeah, we got into a good groove here. We had a good thing going on and now all of a sudden, everything goes all the all the hell. And whose fault is it? Not Frank, it's the Matthews family for showing up and and just spreading their gospel all over the place and driving off when not listening. When they're told Frank, it's a bad rap, if you ask me.

Speaker 1: 53:05

I think you're really trying to do a good job of you know.

Speaker 3: 53:08

Yeah, exonerating Frank, oh Frank.

Speaker 4: 53:12

Frank just haven't. Frank's just having a good time. He just wanted to watch the football game and have a few drinks.

Speaker 3: 53:19

Yeah for a month.

Speaker 4: 53:23

Yeah, yeah, that's right, it's all, it's all, it's all Reed's fault. So the backup, backup. At the colony house, you know, outside, near where the boy in white was, ethan goes, goes out and Victor's there with his open lunchbox and he's, he's pulling out his paper and crayons and he's counting his steps, the grounds muddy, and you're like what is up with this guy? This guy's Not an ordinary person, he's special. What a, how much, how much of Victor. Remind me, how much of Victor have you seen in the show until this point?

Speaker 3: 53:58

second scene.

Speaker 4: 54:00

It's only his second scene.

Speaker 1: 54:02

And the first scene was really creepy because he asked Julie if she wanted some peaches and and and and. Then what's her name? Fatima told her to go, go away.

Speaker 3: 54:13

Right, grab your peaches and shoe. Well, let me ask you this question what color is Victor's crayon?

Speaker 4: 54:22

Oh my god, it's blue.

Speaker 3: 54:23

It's blue oh yeah, I tell you the conclusion I've drawn is that everyone in from are sad oh.

Speaker 4: 54:40

Because of the blue the blue. You know it's another clue that they're sad. They're in from there is sad.

Speaker 3: 54:48

Yeah, that they went to a funeral.

Speaker 4: 54:52

They're just. They're just sad because the circumstances Okay, but the blue really reinforces it. It does missed it.

Speaker 1: 55:03

We're gonna actually change the theme song to am I blue? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 55:08

Yeah, that's right, but you know I wouldn't invalidate that. I mean I, you know, there certainly are lots of great pieces of visual storytelling that use color to kind of like underscore things or Reinforce things and stuff like that. And sometimes they act as clues and you know, in an M night Shyamalan kind of way, you know, or he's like everything's red, you know, when there's a dead person around or whatever right, they could be a clue. It could turn out you may turn out to be vindicated and me and Alex are gonna feel pretty stupid.

Speaker 1: 55:41

Hey God, that we are yeah, I hope. I hope she's right with all of this, yeah they'll be.

Speaker 4: 55:48

There'll be. There'll be a very avant-garde bit of storytelling if we find out that Liz is the mall, lizzie's the mall, like the mold, the mole is a fan and they don't even know they're the mole. That would be cool.

Speaker 3: 56:02

That would be like the one in the painting looking.

Speaker 4: 56:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:07

Oh, it's gonna be a scene elsewhere ending.

Speaker 4: 56:10

Yeah, it's you know, remember saying elsewhere yeah, it's not, it's an autistic kids dream. Yes, exactly yes. Yeah, that's saying elsewhere. It was all made up in the kids mind and and because saying elsewhere featured a whole bunch of crossovers of other shows, is actually a whole Universe of TV shows that are part of this kids Imagine universe is a mess and the whole problem was because she's from Boston, he wanted to go to Duncan, right, yeah, duncan.

Speaker 3: 56:40

There is no other place to go.

Speaker 1: 56:42

No, all right. Can we get to the supermarket please?

Speaker 4: 56:45

Yeah, super, super right. So Well, where where were we here? So yeah, so we seem with, seem with Victor that really does tell you these a character in the show and not just like a creepy bit of furniture person that, yeah, introduced you to be like there's weird people in colony house. No, no, this guy's an actual, an actual thing. And Scott McCord is so great, isn't he like? He's just, he's just remarkable.

Speaker 1: 57:10

As an actor and I gotta tell you, you know, meeting him versus Like you don't know what it's to expect if you never met him before. No, like when you watch Victor and he's like the coolest guy ever, yeah, and and you're like, and you're like what the hell? There's some serious acting going on. Yeah and he's very I Mean and I say this him Liz and Harold are the anchors of that show and I wish they would get. I know Harold gets the pub because he's the star but, yeah, liz and and and Scott have to.

Speaker 1: 57:51

I don't know how you do it, but they gotta get the recognition.

Speaker 4: 57:56

Yeah, their character characters have a real, they're very rooted and cemented in something very consistent. And, yeah, it's, it's there, the folk groups around, I think around which a whole bunch of other things Revolve. Yeah, I'm, I'm very, I'm always very compelled when I'm watching them. Yeah, do their, do their work. I mean, I mean I'm sure I said this, but Harold has. Harold has my favorite line reading of the show in two seasons. My favorite. It's from the very first episode and it's when he says to Kenny we got to put this talisman in the in the RV, and you know that that's, that's all we can do. We can't get these people out of here, so we just put this in RV and hope for the best. And Kenny says Do you think that's gonna work? And and Harold just has this great line reading where she goes. I don't know.

Speaker 4: 58:51

I really you could have said. You could have said I don't know, he could have made it really dramatic and kind of grave, but there's something so genuine and truthful. But, like I don't know, I'm making this shit up Like yeah, I go on, it's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 59:04

I really wish he would break the fourth wall. I really do like just look at the camera, be like what?

Speaker 4: 59:12

Yeah yeah, what an interesting show it would become if people just broke the fourth wall and they look right at us.

Speaker 3: 59:17

Yeah, that'd be awesome, oh my god. So here's the bit here.

Speaker 4: 59:21

So here's the bit. So colony house, front porch one of my favorite places. In front of the front porch I've got a house and and Fatima comes up to Julie and she's like Sister, here's some berries, you've been through hell, have a few these berries. And Julie's like weirded it out, so I don't even know if I want to learn any of your names. And Fatima's like you know, we got an apple tree, we grow our own food, we got all kinds of cool stuff.

Speaker 4: 59:47

Supermarkets are terrible, like, basically, that you know the dairy consists of a sheep, that you got a like Slice skin off for bacon or something. I'm making this up. She doesn't say this stuff, but but Fatima's clearly trying to make her feel better, trying to make her feel at home, and say look, you're in safe hands, there are people here that are friendly and and you'll be okay. It's weird for everybody at first, but you'll be okay. Then Fatima gives her a hug and it's that's your first sort of introduction the idea that maybe Julie is gonna be more comfortable. A colony house then, with her own family, oh, oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:00:25

So yeah, there's that we. We get back to the Matthew sleeping area. Jim's back from the RV. He's got a whole A laundry basket full of clothes. He's like I found all of our stuff, all the comforts of home with me and he's got pajamas and he with the sharks on it, and. And Jim says, yeah, everything's, everything's cool, tabitha, he's got books. Ethan's happy because he's got his adventures of the Grand Gulli Gogg in the flight, of the flight of the Crominocle and and and and the adventures of the Grand Gulli Gogg concords, and Ethan's happy about that. So he's like, okay, I got some of my fun things. Tabitha says, yeah, those are my favorites. They. They're trying to normalize family a little bit. I think in this scene, like trying to focus on nice little things.

Speaker 1: 1:01:18

He asked Tabitha, you know when are we going home? Yeah, and, and she gives a Mom answer like we're trying to figure it out. We try to you know, I don't have a fucking clue either.

Speaker 4: 1:01:31

Yeah, and there's this lovely little, lovely little moment when the parents, you know, become Crominocles. I mean, they have no idea what they're doing, but they, they become Crominocles and you know, they make the, the funny noise, and there's this sort of like well, you know, kind of a life is beautiful, roberto Bernini, kind of moment where it's like, well, we're clearly in the sixth circle of hell, but we're gonna.

Speaker 4: 1:01:56

We're gonna play make-believe for you to distract you from the truth of it for a few minutes what Frank did when they first got the from, and it just went down the hill probably, yeah, probably. He probably was like oh yay, finally We've made it to Disneyland.

Speaker 1: 1:02:12

This is I'm trying to build the case for you. Yeah, Frank is a good guy.

Speaker 4: 1:02:17

Yeah, he was a good guy convinced his daughter for the first eight months that they were in Epcot Center.

Speaker 1: 1:02:23

Yeah, yeah, it's just a really long line.

Speaker 4: 1:02:27

Yeah, that's right. You got to wait till your phone pings to tell you that it's time to show up. Yeah, that's that's what. That's what they're doing. So, but Julie's not. Julie's not down with this.

Speaker 4: 1:02:43

She's too old, she's too old for this shit. She's like yeah, I'm not, I'm not here to do playtime. There's serious stuff going on and this is bad. So you guys just cut it with your shenanigans and Zanzorg and or goings on. I'm not, I'm not messing around with this stuff. So she's, she's getting real. Surly she's a teenager and she's not putting up with this stuff.

Speaker 4: 1:03:07

Yeah, that's forward to that and then then then we get the bit where it's. It's like okay, father Cotry is here to give you the tour, give you the tour of the town and He'll tell, fill you in on all the the sixth and seventh decimal places of what this place is all about and what you're gonna have to. What you're gonna have to do.

Speaker 3: 1:03:29

Yeah, sorry, but yeah, I mean Just looking at Julie through most of this episode and she's just a sour plus it. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I I.

Speaker 1: 1:03:58

I, I, I, I I.

Speaker 3: 1:04:08

I, I, I, I, I I.

Speaker 1: 1:04:22

I, I, I, I, I, I I.

Speaker 3: 1:04:36

I I.

Speaker 1: 1:04:39

I.

Speaker 3: 1:04:42

I I.

Speaker 1: 1:04:46

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I I. I. I I.

Speaker 3: 1:05:20

I I.

Speaker 1: 1:05:23

I, I I.

Speaker 4: 1:05:31

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. They go to the house and Frank walks in, and Frank is in the room where his daughter and wife died just to be there one last time. When the Matthews family show up, oh wow, who's story.

Speaker 1: 1:06:12

That's what what could be with that Now was there a monologue with it. Like a big monologue, did you have?

Speaker 4: 1:06:18

No, not in that scene. No, it was not in that scene. The monologue still happened at the choosing day thing. But I think in an earlier version of the script there was a joint scene between all of them at the house. So Frank's there and the Matthews family come in. They're like, oh shit, we got here at the wrong time, sorry, buddy. And he's just like, yeah, I just need a couple of minutes and then I'm gonna go and then the tire swing or the tree swing scene wasn't a tree swing scene, it was at the grave. When he tells the story of building a swing and how all that stuff, there is no actual swing, they're at the grave. So I think there was some moving of some things around, maybe for practical reasons or to give the thing a bit more flow or not be using the same locations, because there's still the scene with Toby when he takes Jade to the-. So I think that would have been like a repeated kind of like-.

Speaker 3: 1:07:15

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:07:16

A location beat or something like that. So they just kind of diverse. But I don't know what the thinking was behind it, but I just know that there was a version of the script that had some things happening in different places in different ways.

Speaker 1: 1:07:28

For me and right now Lizzie's trying to figure out how that relates to the whole theory.

Speaker 3: 1:07:36

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just thinking about that. Had they had you at the cemetery as well, you're right, it would have been too repetitive. But what I can understand is why the heck Frank would create a swing for her out in the middle of the woods where the monsters live, like that During the day.

Speaker 4: 1:08:03

The day's okay, yeah, during the day. During the day, you just gotta worry about the jackals and bears that are in the woods. You don't gotta worry about the monsters, and then you just teach your child how to deal with those kinds of wildlife, which is a good fatherly thing to do.

Speaker 3: 1:08:22

Do you have ticks up in? This is stupid, but do you have? Ticks in Canada. You do yeah yeah, they're idiots.

Speaker 4: 1:08:30

It is. I mean, it was I remember getting ready to be part of the shooting of season one and one of the big things. There's a number of things they sort of walk you through. Okay, we're gonna be outside a lot, so here's what we gotta keep in mind about being out in the sun sunscreen, hydrating and stuff like that. But there was a whole thing I remember reading in the sort of like orientation sort of package about ticks.

Speaker 3: 1:08:54

Yeah, about Did you have to take?

Speaker 4: 1:08:57

regular we're out in the woods, we're literally out in the woods. It's like real. These are real, this is a real place. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:09:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:03

Yeah, and how long was that episode? How long does an episode take, usually for you guys or for them, I mean?

Speaker 4: 1:09:12

I guess it depends, but, like you know, I think I don't think I would be too. I don't think I would be too off. It depends on what's happening in the episode. Of course, cause some things take longer than others, but I'd say like five shooting days, maybe like five or six shooting days, depending what's going on. If you and again you're not just shooting with the one episode, like you might be shooting like the very, very first scene that I shot, the very first scene that I shot, which was on like day one of filming, and this was the first thing that Harold did too. Like my first moment on in the thing was also his first moment as me as Frank and him as Boyd, and it was him dragging me up the stairs and throwing me against the wall.

Speaker 3: 1:10:04

How did that? I mean, given that you didn't know each other you know Bob, didn't know Harold all that well like, was it difficult to get into that intensity. I mean, did you guys do anything to warm up prior to that?

Speaker 4: 1:10:23

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:10:24

To establish something.

Speaker 4: 1:10:25

Yeah, we had, you know, the really really good stunt coordinator and we walked through some of the combat pieces and you know how to take the bump so that it was believable. And you know, so we did the dragging up the stairs, throwing against the wall, screaming in my face, punching me, pushing me through the doorway, showing me the and it's actually my friend Ann in the bed. They built her into the bed and she's all messed up and then it was a dummy and that wasn't. They didn't have the little girl there, that would have been a bit much. But you know, throwing me down on the floor holding the gun to my head, you know I grabbed Kenny's feet and you know Ricky's feet and stuff like that and it just that was the first day. All of that stuff was day one and we did all of that in. We did all that in the sound stage.

Speaker 4: 1:11:15

We didn't do it that was, note at the house on location. It was like in the studio they built all the sets and stuff. Yeah, I mean it was, but it was the kind of intense for everybody because nobody really knew. You know, there was a real sense of. There was a real sense of kind of excitement at the end of the day because it was like, oh wow, that really worked, it really did. Yeah, it did, it was.

Speaker 4: 1:11:35

We pulled that off. That was really cool and it was. It was chaotic and, you know, hard on the walls and the set and a lot of tossing around. But yeah, like this so that you just get a sense of how out of order things get filmed and kind of how all over the place, like the first one I did was that and the last one I did was out at the tree swing, wow, yeah, so everything's kind of all over the place. You're filming chunks of different episodes, sometimes on the same day, yeah, and you know it's kind of hard to say how long it takes to do an episode, because it's a bit like a jigsaw puzzle, but for the most part it's like a couple, two episodes, three episodes per block, you know, which is like three weeks or something like that.

Speaker 3: 1:12:16

Yeah, yeah, I've noticed that a lot of shows will film in blocks and you know they'll switch off directorial teams.

Speaker 4: 1:12:27

That's right.

Speaker 3: 1:12:27

yeah, In order to do that, you know.

Speaker 4: 1:12:29

Yeah, it's a good way to organize. It keeps things cohesive and, you know, sort of a through line for at least a couple of episodes.

Speaker 3: 1:12:37

Yeah, exactly, exactly Good.

Speaker 4: 1:12:41

So back to the episode.

Speaker 3: 1:12:43

Yes.

Speaker 4: 1:12:43

Let's see if we can do this. Let's try to motor through In the kitchen of Colony House. Father Cottrey's there and he's visiting with all of them and he's like this is how this works. You could choose where you live. You either live here up in Fun Colony House or you live down in Akron, ohio or whatever the town is supposed to be. Right, it's like the town from Leave it To Beaver or something like that. He's like so you get to choose. And yeah, julie wants to go down for the tour. She wants to see what the place's all about. And they're like no, you gotta look after your brother so that he doesn't take off with, you know, children of the corn out there. So that's cool. She's not too happy about this. And Tabith is like you guys stay here, stay here with the kids. And then Father Cottrey's like I think they should all see it Like, really, everyone's gotta. There's this sense that everybody's gotta get normalized to this place or else they're not gonna survive. So they all go, they do all go. Is that what is?

Speaker 3: 1:13:51

that what? Yeah? Well, no, Julie doesn't go.

Speaker 4: 1:13:54

Julie doesn't go but, Does he?

Speaker 3: 1:13:57

Julie and Ethan yeah, because Ethan's not supposed to be out of bed.

Speaker 4: 1:14:02

Right, it's Tabitha who thinks that she should stay with the kids. Father Cottrey's like no, you come with me. Your kids are in great hands here with Donna and Victor. Yeah, you can come. The babies, the baby sitters, you can try. You can try, we get the sex couple will babysit them and you, just you come with me, we're all set. We get to see the diner. We go down the diner again and people are standing outside the diner and we get the great scene in the diner with Jade, where Jade's like ah, I'm gonna start my investigation at the diner.

Speaker 4: 1:14:39

Presumably he's just been cycling around the town in circles for a little while and now he's back at the back meanwhile, back at the diner, and, yeah, he makes a bit of an ass of himself. He's talking about this place being a puzzle and he's looking for clues and treating everybody like they're actors at Universal Studios or whatever, and he's just doing his thing, right, yeah? And the lady tells him that there's a line, and I think that's my friend, rebecca, who says to him that there's a line and he's like, yeah, listen, you know I know that there's rules, but I'm hungry and I want some breakfast sausages and tater tots.

Speaker 1: 1:15:19

And I paid for all you guys anyways, so yeah that's right.

Speaker 4: 1:15:22

Yeah, but yeah, this is for me. This is for me. I'm the guest of honor, so what are you gonna do?

Speaker 3: 1:15:29

And that's what it is. I love how he just took the plate out of the guy's hand.

Speaker 4: 1:15:32

Yeah, he's just like, yeah, he's just like you know whatever right, like I can do whatever I want and the Mrs Lou puts him in his place, come stop it. It's a little shit. She smacks the shit out of him. Just oh just with a spatula.

Speaker 4: 1:15:49

Yeah, he'll be out with a spatula. And he's like whoa, this is really realistic. And Sarah's waiting on tables and she goes outside to meet her brother and she stops him and he's like you know, what are you doing here? You know, apparently she was gonna stay home and she's like well, that would have been pretty conspicuous if I had stayed home and not shown up for work. Yeah, and I've been. I cannot afford to lose shifts.

Speaker 3: 1:16:23

I need the money. I need the money.

Speaker 4: 1:16:25

I'm saving up. Yeah, I'm saving up. I live off of tips Saving up for that trip to Atlantic City and you gotta let me work. So you know she wants to help, she needs to help, she needs to be there. This is what she needs. We're still not 100% sure I don't think at this point whether she had some kind of out of body experience or whether she's got maybe some kind of split personality thing going on or she's possessed by some otherworldly thing. It really is a lead that gets buried early on in the show, this idea that she's you know, that you know about the monsters and you know about the nighttime stuff. But then there's this whole other angle where she's being manipulated by some unseen force. You almost forget about that for a little while, like they drop it on you and then just shove it aside and let you get on with getting to know the place.

Speaker 1: 1:17:20

Isn't that like a loss thing?

Speaker 3: 1:17:23

Yeah sure. They think you're not in loss.

Speaker 4: 1:17:25

Yeah, yeah, there's lots of. I mean, it really is one of the interesting things. I was actually thinking about this watching True Detective, you know, thinking about how, like I love these shows where they leave you wondering for quite a long time as to whether what you're seeing happening is paranormal or metaphysical or whatever, or if you're kind of being tricked into thinking it is, but actually there's a real world, practical or scientific explanation for what's going on. This show, obviously, with the monsters and stuff, you're like, okay, well, these are actual monsters, like this is a thing. Then there's a whole other thing where you're kind of like, oh, there are ghosts here, like is it, you know, is it invasion of the body, snatchers type thing? Do people get possessed by spirits? Or like it kind of does play at the fringes a little bit of what kind of thing it is, and it leaves you wondering for a while and it's it really throws you off, I find.

Speaker 4: 1:18:26

Yeah yeah, everything all at once.

Speaker 3: 1:18:29

Yeah it just. You know, when she came into the diner and was helping them clean up the glass, I just thought she gave Mrs Lou the most evil look, and you know, I don't know. And then she's telling her brother that she needs to help, and I'm wondering what she meant by that.

Speaker 4: 1:18:56

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:18:57

What does she need to help with?

Speaker 4: 1:19:01

I mean, I took it to be pretty genuine, like I think.

Speaker 3: 1:19:04

But is she helping those forces or is she trying to help Mrs Lou after she arranged for the murder of her husband?

Speaker 4: 1:19:15

Yeah, I mean, I mean my read on it, you know we sort of went down this road a little bit, I think last time like my read on it is that these are genuine expressions of, like a character. I don't see a lot of duplicity in what people say and what they do, and in fact I think if there was duplicity that would be a pretty you know, I think I did say this last time like I really don't think there are moments where people are pulled aside and they're told listen, here's what the script says. But we actually want you to kind of give away some little hints that you mean something different than what you're actually saying. I don't think that actually goes on. I think the text is what it is and people are playing it straight. They're playing it and if there is weird stuff going on that comes out in the narrative, like my read of Sarah is that she's unwittingly and under some duress, being controlled by another force.

Speaker 4: 1:20:17

And when she's meeting with her brother and she's saying I need to be here and I need to be helping and I need to be doing something, she means it. She's not trying to slip a Mickey Finn to anybody or pull a wool over anyone's eyes. No, no, no. She it actually. I think it's narratively important that you understand that she is in conflict internally and that she's not trying to dupe anybody, right? In fact, I personally and I know we talked about this and debated it I don't think there's anybody. I don't think there's personally. I don't think there's a single character that is trying to dupe anybody. I think everything you're seeing from everyone is what you're getting, and the mystery is in the world of it. The mystery is in the circumstances of it.

Speaker 4: 1:21:05

Yeah, I don't think there's any secret agents or anything like that. If there is, it'll be quite a thing.

Speaker 3: 1:21:10

I believe that of her more toward the end of the season than I do at this point. I don't know. I agree to a point up until the I don't know. Yeah, I'm open to it.

Speaker 4: 1:21:30

I'm open to it. I think she does 100% mean it when she's struggling with this moment where the voices, whatever they are, tell her if you want everyone to go home, you gotta kill this kid.

Speaker 4: 1:21:43

Yeah, and I think she struggles with that and she's like, well, I didn't like that piece of instruction. That gives me bad feelings. But this place sucks, and wouldn't it be great if everyone could go home and maybe the sacrifice of one person is worth it? And I feel like you see that ethical dilemma play out in what happens with her character. I think she genuinely, and in that sense it's not unlike what someone goes through in a cult or when they fall into a bad community. That is bad for them, but it's a community and if that's what you want, you're what you're looking for, okay. Well then you're gonna do some weird stuff in the name of having people around you who care about you. Like it plays into some of that, some of those energies, a little bit for me. Like I, yeah, I find it entirely compelling. I don't need more than what they're showing me. I don't need a deeper mystery. I find the character, tensions and conflicts are enough. I think they do the work. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:22:44

Yeah okay, anyway, that's that piece. Then we get the. We get, I think, what is a pretty key moment of the show we get Father Cotry basically laying out the groundwork for the Matthews family and, by extension, the viewers, right.

Speaker 4: 1:23:03

Father Cotry's like everything you've seen happen up to this point. Here's me giving you, telling you what it is, and Sean Mujambar is so good as this character. I was really sad to see him go, but this episode in particular, yeah, and we spent a good bit of time over a couple of days shooting the different scenes and stuff and he was clearly having a good time. And there are some little bits and pieces of things that didn't make the final cut that he added, particularly in the marching meet and my death scene that are really I thought were really elegant kind of additions.

Speaker 1: 1:23:43

I think they made him a huge mistake killing him off that early.

Speaker 4: 1:23:46

Yeah, I mean someone's, because someone important's gotta go pretty early.

Speaker 1: 1:23:51

And that's the problem. No, but Bob. That's the problem. Yeah. The fans will yell and scream because nobody dies. But then when you kill somebody off, you yell and scream that somebody. So I see it from both sides. But I love what they did in season two, where they did bring them back through Boyd.

Speaker 3: 1:24:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's a fun way of doing it and I'm hoping to do more of that, like I would love to see that happen over and over again, to kind of make Boyd look crazy.

Speaker 4: 1:24:19

Yeah, although it's, I'm still like you know this is jumping ahead a bit. I'm still not a hundred percent sure what the utility of that device was for the show. I don't mean this as a criticism. I mean it more as like a genuine question, like a genuine curiosity, like and I like to think that it's not a I'm gonna use an expression that probably some people will think doesn't apply here but kind of a jump the shark kind of moment when the narrative isn't demanding the return of a character. But hey, wouldn't it be cool if we had this actor back for some stuff? So we'll put him in a flashback and that'll be kind of neat.

Speaker 4: 1:25:07

Like I'm not saying that doesn't always work, but I'm always sensitive when I'm watching something and I'm going is this is what I'm seeing happening. Because, yeah, it's like when boys to men shows up on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, you're like, well, you know, in the real world these guys aren't gonna show up at a random funeral because they know somebody's uncle. Like that would be quite an extraordinary moment. But in the world of this show, where everybody's famous and this is being shot in Hollywood, yeah, I guess you have the boys to men show up Like that that's what I mean. It is kind of like a fourth wall break, in the sense that it goes oh, this is a show where people come on the show because they're famous and it's like guest spots and stuff like that. Does that make?

Speaker 1: 1:25:48

sense Like it's just yeah. And of all the examples you could have said boys to men on Fresh Prince. I don't think we're ever gonna get that anywhere else, totally random.

Speaker 4: 1:25:59

I pulled that out totally randomly. I didn't plan that, it just came into my head and like all the other from podcasts.

Speaker 1: 1:26:07

I guarantee you we'll never have that. Yeah, and that's what we get with you.

Speaker 4: 1:26:13

Trivial bit of brick and bracket just pops up out of nowhere.

Speaker 1: 1:26:17

The sad part is I'm with you because I remember watching that. Oh yeah, I totally with you, yeah, so what was your thoughts when they were? I'm trying to get us back on track here. What was your thoughts when the Matthews saw the room, your daughter's room, I mean, that was pretty holy shit. This is real.

Speaker 4: 1:26:42

Yeah, and it certainly is very jarring and I think puts a really fine point on the predicament that they're in, where it's sort of like well, here's the house where you would live if you choose to live in the town. Yeah, you've had a taste of colony house and the couch, sex mascots, like you've seen what that's all about. But now here's a house where someone died less than 24 hours ago and they were torn apart here in one of the kids bedrooms.

Speaker 1: 1:27:13

Oh, by the way, here's a gallon of paint, so you could paint over it.

Speaker 4: 1:27:16

Yeah, you can paint over it. May I direct your attention to the beautiful crown moldings over the doorways that are just lightly splattered with blood. Don't worry about that. You can paint over that with a nice egg shell white and you will enjoy this house right down to its chocolatey center. Like there is something very jarring about it being like oh, there's time is of the essence here. They got to choose soon and there's no time to reupholster this place. Like it is freshly. There's fresh massacre here in this room is like, oh shit, yeah, I guess that's how this goes right. This is what happens in this place.

Speaker 4: 1:27:53

So you get it as is yeah, you get a free house. What I wonder is, like if they hadn't shown up, and what happens with Frank and his family is entirely incidental to the beginning, like there really is no relationship between the two, dare I say, inciting incidents. There's that there's the Frank's family being killed and Then there's the Matthews family showing up, and both of those things happen independently. If, if the Mathews family hadn't shown up and and and Frank's house becomes newly available Available Because of what happens Do they go to someone in colony house and say, hey, you know, we're gonna draw lots to see who? Who is there? Anyone who maybe has run their run the course on their time here in colony house, who would like to live down downtown, like down in the suburbs, like maybe maybe someone wants to move? I'm curious as to how that works. Like what's, what are? The logistics are meck. Do they just leave that house empty until someone shows up, or do they have a conversation about about this new vacancy that has popped up?

Speaker 3: 1:28:57

I don't know, anyone claim it yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:29:02

You know, yeah, curiosity that I had. You know how does. How does the real estate market work in?

Speaker 1: 1:29:09

fromville it really is. I mean, it's a. It could be a hot and cold market there and for a bill.

Speaker 4: 1:29:14

Cuz, cuz Cotry's kind of doing double duty as a realtor in this sea, I guess yeah, he's a definite.

Speaker 1: 1:29:20

He's a definite hype man for the town.

Speaker 4: 1:29:23

Yeah he's like it's a fixer upper.

Speaker 4: 1:29:26

But you know, yeah, so, so, yeah, so they have some conversations, there's some, there's a bit of theorizing going on here, right, like Jim and his engineering ed. He's like, ah, maybe we're on a fault line or maybe this is, you know. Like, maybe, maybe this is Dante's inferno or maybe you know whatever. And they, they want to know the science behind the talisman. It's like we don't know how this works. It just works, yeah, and we protect each other.

Speaker 4: 1:29:54

And then, out on the streets, cotry Finally gives us the lowdown on the box. The box is where you go if, if you goof and and and and we can't have you around here anymore. So don't, don't we get, though we get that, we get the whole box and it's like oh, that seems pretty harsh. Yeah, you haven't seen the. They haven't seen the half of it yet, jim. Yeah, you wait, see how bad this shit gets hold on. They go to their house. So we get to see the house, we get to see the room, and you know this, what happens when you break the rules and and you know, tabba. Then, jim, are quite rightly freaked out when they, when they learn about what goes on, what went on in this place, and Tabitha's so freaked out, she's like I got to get out of here. This is a place of a place of death. Yeah, off they go.

Speaker 1: 1:30:44

Yeah, and then we get one of your big scenes.

Speaker 4: 1:30:48

Yeah, we come to. We come to one of my, we come to one of my big scenes. They're out walking through the woods. Honestly, if I, if I had to confess something, I would say this is probably the only scene. I was very, very happy with how everything turned out. But I remember watching this scene and feeling like I Wonder if I could have played that a little different.

Speaker 4: 1:31:08

Like this you that often, no, not often. No, I don't, because I I really do kind of separate myself from the stuff you know whether it's comedy or whether it's you know this or that, and and I've become quite I don't mind watching myself in things and I've become quite desensitized to it and I could almost watch stuff and like not even see me, yeah, just go, okay. Well, I'm into the story, this is the word. The story is doing its work if I'm not focused on my own Part.

Speaker 4: 1:31:34

But this is one part where I think I think I was a little thrown off by the, by the space, yeah, by by how like I felt the at the top of the scene I projected a little bit too much and I don't know like it's one of the rare moments where I found myself Kind of being a little bit picky about about how it turned out. I still think it's a, it's a, it's something to find seen, and yeah, scene is really more about boy than it is about Frank. And yeah, because this is the scene where boy goes wow, he's uh, he's really milking this, he's really making a meal of this whole broken man thing. Maybe, maybe I shouldn't put him in the box, maybe that's what kind of a town are we?

Speaker 4: 1:32:17

Yeah, exactly that this is, this is the doorstep of that, of that of that moment and that that scene that he's gonna have a cock tree a little bit later on.

Speaker 4: 1:32:25

So yeah yeah, an interesting, interesting little bit Call colony house. We're back up Ellis, who is like a real, I Guess, sort of inspector gadget, red, green type character he fashions, whittles a crutch, I guess, for for poor Ethan with his this fucking bowie knife or like, what, like, what like. How did he? How did he make this crutch? What did he do? Salvation Army or what would? Where'd he get it? What do you do? We don't know, but he just has this crutch and he gives it to, gives it to Ethan's. They're all friends now and Ethan hopples around a little bit and he's adorable, and Fatima tells Julie that evens adores sweet little boy and Julie's like, yeah, screw that, he's and and and Julie's like you don't know us and you don't know how dysfunctional our family is, and found like, who cares? We're all in this together. It's what we do, we're family. Yeah, right, we're the, we're the sopranos, so so this is good. So Julie starting to be like, yeah, okay, colony house starting to look pretty good.

Speaker 4: 1:33:36

And then we get back to Kenny and Jade together and Kenny and Jade have an interesting little, you know, sort of interaction and and and Kenny's sort of Humoring him a little bit with this escape room type business, right, you know Jade sort of pitching him this idea that this is all all pretend, and Kenny's like, yeah, you haven't talked to a whole lot of people yet, have you like? Is there like what? What information have you been given? And Jade's like, well, donna talked to me she's the games master, clearly but she didn't tell me, didn't tell me what to do next. You know, I don't know what to do. And he, and he starts to scrutinize the escape room a little bit, nitpicking it and being like, yeah, this could be better, that could be better. And you know, and and he's like One of the things I think we talked about this, one of the things I like about Jade in this moment.

Speaker 4: 1:34:33

I actually think the third episode is a really great time for this to happen in the early life of the show for a viewer who's watching it, trying to get into it. Jade basically steps into the shoes of the discerning, skeptical viewer, yeah, and he's pointing things out in his mind about the escape room, the deficiencies in the logic, the flaws in the ointment which really could very easily stand in for an audience member going wait a minute, where'd all these cows come from? Exactly, electricity, where these chickens come back at. This doesn't make any sense. He's almost disarming a viewer with those kinds of thoughts by giving voice to it within the show, which I thought was quite clever. I thought that was a clever approach to take, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:35:23

Yeah, I like that too. Yeah, and then you know Kenny's just like well, they're just out in the woods, we don't even know where they come from, and that just seems like a lame answer if this really is an escape room.

Speaker 4: 1:35:35

Yeah, kenny, kenny channels boys bit from episode one. I don't know, yeah, I don't know where the chickens come from man.

Speaker 4: 1:35:45

Yeah, what are you gonna do? They're gonna analyze this to death. No, we got to survive. So, yeah, and then Christy shows up. You know, christy come in. Yeah, christy comes in on them, you know. And and Kenny tells, tells her who this guy is. He's like guys from the, he's the other guy, not the dead guy, but the other guy obviously from the car and and he's up to no good, he's cut, he's causing problems here, yeah. And then, and then they, they, they have a little nice little moment. They hold hands, kenny and Christy.

Speaker 3: 1:36:19

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:36:22

You're like, oh, there's a little something, something.

Speaker 4: 1:36:30

Yeah, oh, oh yeah. And then, honestly, with one of my favorite scenes of the episode, which is the episode between Victor and Ethan, yeah, he's like, he's like what are you, what are you doing? What's going on out here? It's like for us gumping his son like what are you, what are you watching? What's happening out here? I'm counting steps because the trees are moving. You're like, oh shit, yeah, what is going on with this guy? And and and they form a little, they form their little like mini alliance. It's like, oh yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll help you, I'll, I'll watch for stuff. And they have a little conversation and you know Ethan's asking too many questions. We can tell the Victor kind of digs him. You know he's got a little buddy now. So that sets the, that sets the stage for for Moving forward. But there are certainly some cryptic things that get said yes, it's seen about the trees moving and about all kinds of weird stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:37:25

They're boy and white.

Speaker 4: 1:37:27

Boy in white comes up on yeah that friend of yours? Yeah, tell. Tell them that Victor says hello, which which is like oh, I mean, that's interesting, right, because it tells you that this isn't something that's only Ethan is seeing.

Speaker 3: 1:37:40

Yeah, exactly, and and it made me wonder, because it we don't know a heck of a lot, but knowing what we know, has Victor not seen him? Yeah, it was a kid. Can only little boys see this kid? So it it goes from you know, cuz Ethan thinks that the kid lives right out in those, you know, in that little patch of woods right there, because that's where he keeps seeing him. But it just, hey, it Tells Victor that he wasn't imagining this kid. Yeah after all, like that's true.

Speaker 4: 1:38:25

Victor's. Victor's seems to be a little ho hum about it, though, isn't he like? He doesn't? It doesn't seem to be a. He doesn't treat it as much of a Revelation. It sounds like it's not like you see him to. He's just like oh, yeah, well, yeah, tell him, tell him I like it's. It's almost like a throwaway kind of thing, which, yeah, which I think is actually kind of cool, because Victor, victor is the character that Delivers to us this desensitized numbed. Yeah, this place is nuts and I've seen all of it and I've been here for a long time.

Speaker 4: 1:39:01

Yeah it's pretty, it's pretty cool. Yeah. Chugging along. We're gonna motor through we're mode through. The rest of it won't even go into great detail, so we're not, we're not keeping that's okay we're not keeping everybody here forever, so You're not spending the night with us? Well, you know, we don't. If you want a three hour episode, we can, I mean. I don't want to edit a three hour episode, guys. No, that's right, see, did you hear that?

Speaker 3: 1:39:27

All right, you even, no matter where we are, is that okay? Another 20 minutes.

Speaker 1: 1:39:33

Yeah, yeah. So let's get the Jade cellar, let's get the good stuff.

Speaker 4: 1:39:37

The Jade cellar is great bit, because that's I don't know if that's the first moment. I think it is the first moment where there's kind of like a Weirdness, a weirdness, yeah, where it's like, where it's like maybe we see things that aren't there. Yeah right, it's the it's the sixth sense kind of moment, right, so you're like oh shit, it's.

Speaker 1: 1:39:59

It's when we go off the rails and we're like wait, what is this show again?

Speaker 4: 1:40:04

That's right, and that is what I felt in that moment. It's like, oh, this place also plays tricks on you.

Speaker 3: 1:40:10

Yeah, you know, like I felt. I got the sense that you know when the guy turns to him and screams, I noticed his blue eyes with the white whites but but all this blood, and you would think that the eyes would be bloodshot or something like that. And and Jade is so shocked he's thrown back on the on the floor and he looks up and he sees this weird symbol on the ceiling and, yeah, or a moment, he forgot where he thought he was and was completely freaked out.

Speaker 3: 1:40:48

Yeah like this wasn't Disneyland, where you know. You know the animatronics are only so scary and you know that they're not real. Hmm, right, you're someplace else, like in one of the haunted houses, where you're lost in your own psyche.

Speaker 4: 1:41:04

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:41:05

Everything seems real and you're scared, and he was genuinely scared for a moment. And then he came back to himself and he's skipping out of that cellar like, oh my god, toby, you are a genius.

Speaker 4: 1:41:21

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:41:21

Yeah, you can you can.

Speaker 4: 1:41:23

You can tell he's had a moment where he's like, oh, wait a minute, that seemed a little bit too real. Yeah, I'm just gonna pretend maybe that wasn't as heavy as it was, because I might have to face an uncomfortable truth if I lean into yeah, that I'm really here and this is really really.

Speaker 1: 1:41:40

Yeah, I don't want to deal with it.

Speaker 3: 1:41:42

Yeah, realize that.

Speaker 4: 1:41:45

But yeah, that's right. And then we have. Then we have the, the, the moral dilemma seen in the church where, yeah, you know, and I think, I think it's probably plays out a bit counterintuitively for anyone who was expecting something different Boy goes to Father Cotrey for some counsel and he's like I'm having second thoughts. I'm not sure if we should put Frank in the box and the Godly priest who you think would say yeah, you know, jesus, turn the other cheek, all that stuff. He doesn't say that. He's like wait a minute, you you made the rules and and now you're first, first, first opportunity to apply them, you're gonna bend. Oh man, that's gonna be bad, right, which?

Speaker 3: 1:42:29

really the devil was talking.

Speaker 4: 1:42:32

What's that?

Speaker 3: 1:42:33

It almost seemed like the devil was talking, because Preach should have said turn the other cheek.

Speaker 4: 1:42:42

Yeah, I think what we see play out Over the course of particularly that first season, I think, kind of helps you to. I really think that Cotrey's Cotrey's character is very well substantiated, like there's a bit of a reverse engineering, but I think when you come to see where he came from and what he went through and where he lands you, you understand there's, there's this guy who's like this place is gonna go to hell real fast If we don't stick to you know, if we don't create some tenets and and stick to them. Like I think I think I think he's quite consistent that way.

Speaker 3: 1:43:21

No, no, he definitely is. Yeah, like he definitely is. I totally agree with that. But when he didn't give in to Boyd, to me it just seemed and I'm not trying to say there's, you know, like the devil has its hand in this show. That's not what. I'm saying I'm just saying that you know, instead of what he should have said as a priest. He turns around and he's like no, put him in the box.

Speaker 3: 1:43:51

Yeah and you know when I get what you're saying like. They are so on the edge of losing everything in every second that if they set a rule, they have to follow that rule.

Speaker 4: 1:44:02

Yeah, listen, this is fromville. This ain't your daddy's pastor, right? You know this is a youth group like we're here to live, right? Yeah, I dug that scene. I thought that I thought that scene was was was really good and and I love Harold's performance in this scene in particular like I, was quite impressed at how genuinely torn he seems. He seems to be. Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1: 1:44:31

There's two lines that I love about this. You know, kottrie says when you build a guillotine, you get what you get. You either use it or you don't. And then, of course, harold's like you're a lousy fucking priest. Yeah he's not answering it, but it's so it's. I mean, he uses that line in season two too as well. And and I just think that it you know, your advisor doesn't want to tell you what you want to hear, right, he tells you what it that. That's the, that's the, the mark of a good advisor.

Speaker 4: 1:45:05

Yes. Yeah, he's the consigliary and he's like you make. You may never use the thing that you've said you're gonna use, but if your opportunity comes along where you, you, the conditions are right and you don't do it, you've taken the piss out of it completely then people won't people, no one will believe that you'll use it, which really, if you think about it, makes Frank a hero in this episode.

Speaker 4: 1:45:31

Frank is always a hero he saves. He saves Boyd from having to make the choice. Yeah, he rescues him from that predicament, which means we have not yet, in two seasons, we have not yet actually seen Boyd have to make that choice. Right, he does take Sarah off into the woods, but he comes back and there's still there's still this question kind of floating over everything. It's like will they, will they do this? Will they, will they? Will they use it? I'm not sure that we'll ever see the box get used again, but but hey, I'm I'm open to being wrong about that, but anyway. So there it is. Boyd comes back. He has this scene with Frank where he basically tells him I've made up my mind and you just need to take off and live your life whatever way you want. There's a shack out in the woods, because that's a great way to go.

Speaker 3: 1:46:27

Great place to live with your talisman.

Speaker 4: 1:46:30

Yeah, it's, you know it's essentially an outhouse with, you know, with a hook like so, go, go, go, live there rather than die, I think. I think in my imagination, frank went out in the woods and he checked out the shack and he went yeah, I think I'm gonna go in the box.

Speaker 1: 1:46:51

Yeah, I'm better off dead.

Speaker 3: 1:46:54

I promise in that box.

Speaker 4: 1:46:56

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's what that's my fantasy of what you don't see off-screen. Yeah so, but you're left, you're left. You're left with the impression that you're left with the impression that that maybe Boyd just lets Frank go and off he goes, and which takes us to, which takes us to the, the choosing ceremony, right where, where we get this, we get this whole played out bit, where it's like where you're gonna, you're gonna have to decide and of course, you know jumping to the end, julie chooses colony house. Family freaks out. They've chosen to live in the suburbs, in the in the death house, and Julie, for some ridiculous reason, has chosen to live in the house where the craziest thing that happens is a couple people have sex on the couch and for some reason, she's the nutty one for choosing colony over the blood, the blood spatter house like like well they, I think you also.

Speaker 1: 1:47:52

We also have to talk about what Jade did. I mean, yeah, that's right, could not have been any more. Jade slash inappropriate yeah and and Boyd does a Frank on them where he pulls them in there. Choose, you're out. You know a man protects his family and then he's part of the town and yeah, my life yeah any, any.

Speaker 4: 1:48:17

He shoves Jade's nose like like he's a cat who's made a mess on the carpet in in the grave and he's like, take a look at your boy. You think this is made up now. And it's like, oh damn, that's shit, that's good, that's crazy stuff, yeah so. So that's really fun. And then of course, you get stuff with the, with Frank and the, the, the, the. I will say I think I said this before that the, the scene in the jail cell when he says, here, take this talisman and go, and I'll go off into the woods. It was sort of a hybrid of that scene and some of the stuff that I say in the choosing day scene.

Speaker 4: 1:49:00

That was the audition oh, wow the audition for the role was the Christmas dollhouse stuff, but it was set in the jail cell. When he's saying here, take this talisman and go off, so that the script had quite and quite involved to what it was. Yeah, that's awesome, interesting little bit of trivia. But yeah, fun, fun scene to do. And so there's another bit of trivia something that got cut. We actually did shoot it, but it got cut.

Speaker 4: 1:49:30

And this leads into a question you had earlier about what was Frank thinking when he's in the, when he's in the box? There is a moment in the script where Frank says I think this actually is in the show. When he says, no, I'm, I am thinking clearly, you know, like she, my friend Becca, who I think was also in the diner scene she says you don't have to do this and he's like, no, I'm thinking very clearly, I'm gonna do this. Then there was another little moment where he says a nice thing everyone could do is light a candle for, you know, my wife and daughter tonight in your windows, and I think that actually plays in the episode.

Speaker 4: 1:50:08

There's a moment where he's looking out the window very early in the moments in the box and there are, there are lights popping up in the in the houses in the town and that's people lighting candles for for his wife and daughter, and it doesn't. It doesn't get explained in any way, but there is a moment where my, where Frank kind of smiles a little bit, yeah, where he smiled and that's what that is about. It's him. It's him like that. People are responding to what he is basically his final, his final wish, his final request to have them honor, honor them for him in his final moments, and they do, and he and he has a nice little moment before he gets terrified.

Speaker 1: 1:50:51

I you know what. I'm sorry, lizzie.

Speaker 3: 1:50:53

I was just gonna say you know, after you know, you talk about the Christmas in the dollhouse, the, because you said all that in the cemetery.

Speaker 3: 1:51:04

I just I felt like people didn't want Frank to go into the box they did have sympathy for him because they were all going through this whole thing together and it could have been any one of them that just decided to drink, and to a stupor every single day. Yeah, whatever reason, they just decided not to. And it was just that one night. You know whether the monsters knew that it was just Megan and Lauren, home alone, without Frank Frank.

Speaker 4: 1:51:38

Yeah, allowed that to happen yeah, they're about to the grace right, like I mean. I mean there there is something very I mean I think I can understand it on a human level, like I think the mechanics of the show kind of work in the sense of, well, if there's this much danger at night, what do you do? What do you do to keep people serious? I mean, in my mind, the threat of monsters killing you is enough. You don't actually have to add another level that says, well, if you screw up, we're gonna take away your hall pass privileges for a couple of weeks. It's no, like the.

Speaker 4: 1:52:14

The the cost of making a mistake is about as dire as it can possibly be all on its own. So there is, there is something I think a little bit faulty psychologically about saying we're gonna, we're gonna make the price of negligence so high that no one will be negligent. Well, no one really works that way. I mean, negligence is a, is something that that no one realizes that they're doing while they're doing it. It's only after something terrible happens that they go oh shit, I should have been cleaning those filters more often or whatever. Right, so it is a. It is an interesting thing to reflect on, although I think, and I and I do think that like a say about the box, I'm not. I think Boyd maybe, as a character, evolves to the point where he's like, okay, that tactic just doesn't work anymore yeah like we can't on top of

Speaker 3: 1:53:04

it isn't it enough that your family was killed. Yeah, isn't that punishment enough?

Speaker 4: 1:53:11

yeah, of course it is. Of course it is. There'd be no, I don't think that anybody would reason we'd be like put that asshole in the box, like it doesn't really it doesn't really play, but anyway, but it. But it is interesting there's. There's a march to the march to the box and it is a. It is a lovely, lovely little scene. We rushed to film it because we were trying to do it at sundown. Yeah, yeah, the window, but it didn't look rushed but it kind of was like there was a sense of urgency where it's like here's how many takes. We think we realistically have to get this before we go from it being daytime to too dark. And we did. We did the box stuff that same night. Yeah, there was a, there was a whole getting the monsters ready and prepping the box and putting a false back on it, stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 1:54:01

I will say they do a great job of wrapping, wrapping it up at the end, and it's not just this episode, it's all the episodes. They oh, and I like to say you know you take stock of all your characters and they start? They start with Mrs Lou at the diner, that's right, they work, they work their way to the Matthews. Then you know what I, what I love about that scene with Mrs Lou.

Speaker 3: 1:54:30

she takes a bunch of apples, she brings them home and she's, you know, praying for her husband and at the end, you know, you've got Kenny with his is stray Jade, yeah and that's where the relationship between Mrs Lou and Jade actually begins oh, absolutely, it's just it's, it's lovely yeah, it's that moment where he's so grounded into this hell and he sees this woman who is genuinely grieving.

Speaker 4: 1:55:07

This is not an escape room, like he thought it was yeah, and real and really, for all intents and purposes, it is the beginning of the show. Yes, like, like, like everything. Everything that's happened up to this point is like introduction action, dust settling after the action and now the new. That montage at the end is basically an expression of this is the new normal of this place, and the fact that that new normal happens adjacent to a guy being torn apart in the middle of the town square, where everyone can either see or hear what going on, it just adds a sense of urgency to this is the new normal. There is a, there is a new kind of danger that wasn't here for the last 96 days and we've settled into a complacency and now we're all on edge. You know we're on edge and we realize the danger is is is newly kind of revitalized. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a very elegant ending.

Speaker 1: 1:56:08

I quite and and knowing that they have that relationship and knowing that Jade has such a relationship for his, for a female authority figure, which we're gonna find out later it, just looking back at this, it's a, it's a great, great scene and it's there's just all good stuff that that it comes to it. You know, I mean, I obviously you were, you were in the middle of it, literally and terrifying. No, I know you said that the last time you know you were, it was as real as it could be for you and that that's amazing and it was chaotic, and I don't know.

Speaker 4: 1:56:59

I said this, but adding to the terror of it was the chaos of Jack directing from behind the monitor and and calling for whoever he was seeing on the monitor to do certain things, and the problem, though, was that nobody who was actually in the scene me or any of the the creepy people around the box no one ever knew if it was them that he was talking to, ha, because he wasn't calling anybody by name, he was just seeing people in the monitor, and he was saying no, no, no, don't go that way, turn around and hold there for a second.

Speaker 4: 1:57:41

And so there was this real palpable sense of, like, what's happening, and and it really did it kind of in a weird way it kind of added to this like controlled chaos of the moment. I found it, I found it to be very effective like I didn't know which way to turn, I didn't know which way to look, I didn't know who I should be looking at, and I felt, I felt the confusion and the fear in a very real kind of way. In those moments and it wasn't being afraid, I was gonna kill this like, why don't want to screw up this scene? I'm, I'm, I'm afraid that I will, and so the fear was real it came across.

Speaker 3: 1:58:21

It came across. It was utterly terrifying and I I felt like I was pacing that floor with you waiting for them to come.

Speaker 4: 1:58:30

Then, when they start looking through the holes, and yeah, yeah, yeah, you know you're getting a look at them up close yeah, well it was, it was fabulous, and then, when they all come in, at the end I loved it yeah, it's a great, great shot and I'd know I'd no idea when we were filming it that all of that was gonna become the trailer for the show. Right, it was quite, it was. It was quite a thing. I remember getting messages from people saying, oh, the first trailer for the show from that you did is out and it's you, you, it's all the trailer, is all you. It was like being led to the, led to the box, and then Harold seeing me in and the, the pacing around and stuff and I was like, wow, I mean we, I had no idea while we were doing it, but that that was gonna get cut in into that is like the first offering of what this show was gonna look like and what it was gonna be about.

Speaker 3: 1:59:22

It was really cool, it was really neat.

Speaker 4: 1:59:27

That doesn't expect it yeah, it's neat, it's like I'm glad I didn't know, I'm glad I didn't know. Yeah, it, yeah, wouldn't have, wouldn't have worked, wouldn't have played the same way yeah, it was great.

Speaker 3: 1:59:38

Well, bob, thank you so much once again you kill it for us and you know you're always welcome you may not want to come back, but you're always welcome it will never be like this long again no, and I'm great, I'm glad, I'm glad you didn't get me going.

Speaker 4: 1:59:55

I didn't. I didn't dump on anyone's theories, or I'm really upset about fans. I think I named fans by name last time and like called them out and it was like so, and so I'm just imagining this all yeah, exactly what it was no it what I enjoyed that so much. I really, really did that's part of the fun it is I just, you know, none of us.

Speaker 3: 2:00:23

I mean, I don't know, I'm just thinking all loud yeah, I don't know either, yeah yeah, I loved it. I loved it and I you know. I hope you did enjoy yourself yes, we're so grateful you came back yeah, it was fun and love.

Speaker 4: 2:00:37

Before before we end, folks, if you want to just subscribe or tell a friend or tell to also at the time of this podcast, hopefully Bob will be premiering the new season of King and Pawn yeah, I think early February early February there will be a trailer and and I've seen the trailer and it's really fun and you'll get to, you'll get to see it I'll post it so you'll be able to absolutely, and maybe we can get your drinking buddy on here when, when he actually, you know, tells us he's really the mole with Donna.

Speaker 1: 2:01:16

I've had enough of them I hear it and I'm just so happy that you guys get to you know, work together so much, because you don't really seem like you get along at all, I mean in person, haha yeah no, I mean no. It's great. It's great when you can work with friends. It's a great game.

Speaker 4: 2:01:32

We've got another season of the show Good Grief 2, which is co-produced and and is starring and co-written by Katarina back illness, who play yeah so Katarina and I have done a bunch of things together too. Like it's it's. It's not a huge community. It's small enough that the people who are working on stuff seriously we all end up crossing paths and working on different things together all the time.

Speaker 4: 2:01:57

Yeah, we definitely have to get her back on because we she is another friend of the podcast as well yeah, and also again, I don't want to belabor the point, but also in that show, playing one member of this grief group that we're in is Sarah Campbell, who plays the monster who kills my family in in in that first episode oh my god. Sarah, sarah and I have easily been in 10 projects together, at least over the last 10 years. Like we're, we're. We're good buddies, yeah is she?

Speaker 1: 2:02:29

is she an older person, or okay, I'm thinking, I don't know why, even say like makeup.

Speaker 4: 2:02:39

She's the one who appears in the window and says like the older lady, yeah that's yeah, that's Sarah, yeah and I think you maybe see her in season two. She might pop up as a monster in a couple of places and I I think possibly they've got her back for season three, but I'm not sure I well, we're gonna definitely get you back for our preview cuz.

Speaker 1: 2:03:01

I know you have all the answers yeah, you all because you know nothing, even though you were on the show. You don't get any script, but yet you know all the secrets of from yeah, it's the throw off the scent, it's the yeah everybody off and and folks. Next week, hopefully we'll be able to get to season one episode for a rock and a and far away, and and hopefully we get to see more of Bob's legs, evidently you know in a bucket in a little wheelbarrow so my chest.

Speaker 1: 2:03:42

But again, thank you so much. We love having you on and thank you again for such short, short notice. But although I know you were wrongly accused, we're gonna have your menaceous I mean the Matthews family yeah, take us out. Okay, because I know how much you you are so upset with that. But they're.

Speaker 4: 2:04:09

They live in my house, so I'm I hope them all that.

Speaker 1: 2:04:12

Wish them all the best get you home, let's go come on. Get in your house, let's go, come on.